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EU citizens;don't care,can't communicate w/h other

04.02.06, 12:09
I'm highly sceptical about prospects of European integration within the EU,
not to say I don't believe its is ever possible.

Despite supposed ideals of Solidarity of New EU...I don't ever see Germans
sharing their job market with Poland, or French learning Polish, or for that
matter Poles carring about fate of Spaniards....

I believe that European Union is as "integrated" and has as much in common,
as group of some 25 strangers waiting for the their ride at the bus stop.....

--
Polska jest w moim sercu!
Edytor zaawansowany
  • russh 04.02.06, 14:41
    This could be a good thread Waldek. I'll post later.
  • kylie1 04.02.06, 19:05
    I think we have had one of those from you Waldek about....let me see 126 times?
  • waldek1610 05.02.06, 06:11
    kylie1 napisała:

    > I think we have had one of those from you Waldek about....let me see 126
    times?


    True, and I had about ten times as many replies that dodged the bullet and did
    nothing to answer my question...Please understand one thing; as long as you
    avoid discussing given subject, it is going to look like you have something to
    hide, or you are not proud of the truth....

    You know that EU is the "European.. USA wannabe" build without foundations...
    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • russh 05.02.06, 08:58
    > You know that EU is the "European.. USA wannabe" build without foundations...

    Not true. The Eu countries want to be able to compete economically, but not
    socially with the US.
  • waldek1610 05.02.06, 09:15
    russh napisał:

    > > You know that EU is the "European.. USA wannabe" build without foundation
    > s...
    >
    > Not true. The Eu countries want to be able to compete economically, but not
    > socially with the US.

    Which EU countries? Did you mean that Germany wants Poland to have competetive
    edge over USA, which is exactly why Germany does whatever it can to distroy
    competition in Poland?
    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • mistery.in.the.fog 05.02.06, 14:36
    russh napisał:

    > > You know that EU is the "European.. USA wannabe" build without foundation
    > s...
    >
    > Not true. The Eu countries want to be able to compete economically, but not
    > socially with the US.

    Hi!
    EU ideal is born many many years ago as an ideintegrated social project (not
    only trade and business)...but the world is changed: the wild globalization has
    almost totally destroyed the spirit of our european "wise fathers". Now the
    peoples are only bunches of persons, totally divided as "monads" because the
    stupid ideal of "have success or you are zero". Individualism is something
    definitely negative when applied without control. In my opinion, EU must be not
    similar to the USA federation: I don't like a dominion based on the weapons; I
    believe in the tolerance, not in the politic of the "I am the law"; I don't want
    a gun in every pocket and a war behind every corner; I prefer to pay more taxes
    to have a good old welfare system, not to see the poors or the grandfathers
    without assistance at all, I don't want to lose the immense treasures of our
    cultures: not the communism or the nazism reduces the individuals like "one man"
    but the stupid subculture. No, I like the European Federation of friend peoples,
    not the USA Federation model. Yes, I like the big effort of the USA to be a
    great Nation and develop more and more. I don't like to live under an unique
    ruler of my life. As you can see, english is not my mother tongue, please excuse
    my errors. wink

    Bye.
  • mistery.in.the.fog 05.02.06, 14:36
    russh napisał:

    > > You know that EU is the "European.. USA wannabe" build without foundation
    > s...
    >
    > Not true. The Eu countries want to be able to compete economically, but not
    > socially with the US.

    Hi!
    EU ideal is born many many years ago as an ideintegrated social project (not
    only trade and business)...but the world is changed: the wild globalization has
    almost totally destroyed the spirit of our european "wise fathers". Now the
    peoples are only bunches of persons, totally divided as "monads" because the
    stupid ideal of "have success or you are zero". Individualism is something
    definitely negative when applied without control. In my opinion, EU must be not
    similar to the USA federation: I don't like a dominion based on the weapons; I
    believe in the tolerance, not in the politic of the "I am the law"; I don't want
    a gun in every pocket and a war behind every corner; I prefer to pay more taxes
    to have a good old welfare system, not to see the poors or the grandfathers
    without assistance at all, I don't want to lose the immense treasures of our
    cultures: not the communism or the nazism reduces the individuals like "one man"
    but the stupid subculture. No, I like the European Federation of friend peoples,
    not the USA Federation model. Yes, I like the big effort of the USA to be a
    great Nation and develop more and more. I don't like to live under an unique
    ruler of my life. As you can see, english is not my mother tongue, please excuse
    my errors. wink

    Bye.
  • mistery.in.the.fog 05.02.06, 14:36
    russh napisał:

    > > You know that EU is the "European.. USA wannabe" build without foundation
    > s...
    >
    > Not true. The Eu countries want to be able to compete economically, but not
    > socially with the US.

    Hi!
    EU ideal is born many many years ago as an ideintegrated social project (not
    only trade and business)...but the world is changed: the wild globalization has
    almost totally destroyed the spirit of our european "wise fathers". Now the
    peoples are only bunches of persons, totally divided as "monads" because the
    stupid ideal of "have success or you are zero". Individualism is something
    definitely negative when applied without control. In my opinion, EU must be not
    similar to the USA federation: I don't like a dominion based on the weapons; I
    believe in the tolerance, not in the politic of the "I am the law"; I don't want
    a gun in every pocket and a war behind every corner; I prefer to pay more taxes
    to have a good old welfare system, not to see the poors or the grandfathers
    without assistance at all, I don't want to lose the immense treasures of our
    cultures: not the communism or the nazism reduces the individuals like "one man"
    but the stupid subculture. No, I like the European Federation of friend peoples,
    not the USA Federation model. Yes, I like the big effort of the USA to be a
    great Nation and develop more and more. I don't like to live under an unique
    ruler of my life. As you can see, english is not my mother tongue, please excuse
    my errors. wink

    Bye.
  • mistery.in.the.fog 05.02.06, 14:42
  • kylie1 06.02.06, 02:26
    Waldek, I think USA is not the same democracy it used to be. Bush sunk billions
    of $ into the Iraqi war and all Americans will feel the effects of that war in
    the years to come. I think Bush has successfully managed to tarnish the image
    of American democracy. I am not 100% sure but from what I have read and see on
    TV most Europeans are not as fond of the United States as you you make it
    sound. They are not stupid and they can see things for themselves. The US debts
    are soring sky high and it will take them years to pay this back. Sorry to say,
    the same anti-American sentiments are shared among Canadians as well. They can
    be real bullies towards Canada even though we do try to keep things on a keel
    level. We know "our friends" are much stronger and bigger. We know where are
    our place is. We know our limits.
    If they decide to start messing around with Iran, my bet is you will witness an
    exodus of Americans into Europe. Financially they are spread out so thin while
    Europe is getting stronger every day.Who knows...

    smile
  • waldek1610 06.02.06, 08:29
    kylie1 napisała:

    > Sorry to say, the same anti-American sentiments are shared among Canadians as
    > well. They can be real bullies towards Canada even though we do try to keep
    > things on a keel level. We know "our friends" are much stronger and bigger.
    > We know where are our place is. We know our limits.

    Oh really, did US newspapers printed Cartoons of prophet Mohhamad? I thought
    its the Dannish and other European embassies that are burning in the Middle-
    East..

    > If they decide to start messing around with Iran, my bet is you will witness
    an
    >
    > exodus of Americans into Europe. Financially they are spread out so thin
    while
    >
    > Europe is getting stronger every day.Who knows...
    >
    > smile

    You forgot that by 2025 Europe might be a Muslim Empire lead from Londonistan
    or Parisbad..if things go the way they go.

    And please remember that it is not only American flags being burned in Middle
    Eastern countries and growing Arab comunities in Europe. In fact during last
    week Arabs burned 10 times as many Dannish, Norvegian and French flags than
    favorite textile burning device in Muslim world which was the US flag...

    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • russh 06.02.06, 15:45
    You're a yankie doodle dandy!
  • bartis_ervin 06.02.06, 12:19

    I think that's official! You are a closet anglo-saxonsmile
    Come out, the first step is to admit itsmile

    Ervin

    Thebartiski.blogspot.com
  • russh 06.02.06, 16:11
    As said earlier, a potentially good thread.

    I believe that you are probably right. Unless the EU countries are better able
    to integrate, culturally and politically as well as economically, then the
    current desire of the politicians is doomed to fail; this would be a great pity,
    but inevitable I feel.

    It is nigh-on impossible to integrate 25 countries (it was impossible with just
    6 in the beginning) into a harmonised federal unit. Without being closer
    culturally & politically there is no chance, and you mention just some of the
    reasons.

    There needs to be a common language (English must be that language) which is
    spoken as a 1st language. Historic languages should still be taught, but used as
    dialects are used, for instance, in Italy.

    There needs to be a common tax system, as in the USA (plus local federal taxes).
    Without this, there will continue being too many inequalities, and a difficulty
    to integrate necessary centralised spending.

    There needs to be common education and health policies. +++++++

    Now you can see why I agree with you. Luther King said it; 'I have a dream'.
    This one's impossible.

    The problem is in its liquidation.

    We should end up with a quality non-integrated open alliance.
  • hardenfelt 06.02.06, 18:34
    Russ wrote:

    > There needs to be a common language (English must be that language) which is
    > spoken as a 1st language. Historic languages should still be taught, but used
    a
    > s
    > dialects are used, for instance, in Italy.

    English is the company language in Poland, Denmark and so on for French,
    German, Danish, and some international Polish companies. And Spanish. And
    Russians. With borders disappearing people travel for fun, experience, love and
    money. They work in English. And the locals are forced to learn English to
    speak to them. This is a process in progress and it will go on.

    Cross border love affairs and children raising companies – they usually start
    by speaking English (the language they both know) and for a couple it is very,
    very difficult to change the language you speak from the beginning. They make
    up their own words and create an common idiolect. Later it feels very strange
    to speak something else. And with the world getting smaller we get more and
    more of these relationships.

    Education – Already now most countries has compulsory English lessons for at
    least 5 years. A Danish student speaks English at CAE-level (Certificate of
    Advanced English) when he starts at university. This will undoubtedly increase
    within the coming years, maybe with actual instruction in English for certain
    subject (maybe the history lessons). Many students already now study for 1 or 2
    semesters abroad – mainly in English. I don’t think there is now one single
    university in Europe which doesn’t offer at least part of their program in
    English. The Erasmus Grants makes it possible for EU students to study abroad,
    and I do imagine a future where at least 1 semester abroad will be compulsory
    to get your masters degree. This is of course not enough – the British and the
    Irish will still have an advantage, which is why it’s unjust that English has
    the position it has. But then – the world is not fair.

    Television is cross border – and mainly in English.

    The best International magazines are in English; the Economist, the Lancet and
    many. many other professional and semi-professional prints. It’s a must to read
    these prints if you want to get ahead in your profession.

    The administration language of EU is all membership languages. Everybody long
    ago agreed that this is nonsense, which is why only the most important EU-
    documents are translated into all languages. But they are all translated into
    English and French. The French are happy and everybody else is happy. This can
    go on for a long time. A few hundred million Euro a year for translations to
    have a stable Europe is a cheap price.

    The world is just smaller. It took H. C. Andersen 3 days to travel from Odense
    to Copenhagen. Today we are anywhere within 3-4 hours. This will as a logical
    consequence give rise to new administrative units. Not necessarily the EU, but
    then maybe Łukasenko.

    I could give many other reasons why I think English is going to be the European
    language. Most of the world has already chosen. There will be no Esperanto –
    however desirable this might have been.

    It might take a few hundred years before the language assimilation process is
    complete, but eventually it will happen.
  • usenetposts 18.02.06, 12:04
    > language. Most of the world has already chosen. There will be no Esperanto
    > however desirable this might have been.
    >

    Ne! Ne! Diru, ke cxi tio ne estas vera!

    Zamenhofo ekploris.

    --
    - Uncle Davey's Homepage -
    :: Foreigners Living in Poland Forum
  • waldek1610 09.02.06, 09:05
    russh napisał:

    > As said earlier, a potentially good thread.
    >
    > I believe that you are probably right. Unless the EU countries are better able
    > to integrate, culturally and politically as well as economically, then the
    > current desire of the politicians is doomed to fail; this would be a great
    > pity,but inevitable I feel.

    If EU is to survive it is only logical to focus on clutural integration, and by
    cultural integraniton I don't mean Eastern Europe becoming more Western, guite
    the oposite. The West needs to feel the gap in its education and overall
    knowlege concering East Europe, since from familiarity comes an understanding
    and tolerance.

    > It is nigh-on impossible to integrate 25 countries (it was impossible with
    just
    > 6 in the beginning) into a harmonised federal unit. Without being closer
    > culturally & politically there is no chance, and you mention just some of the
    > reasons.
    > There needs to be a common language (English must be that language) which is
    > spoken as a 1st language. Historic languages should still be taught, but used
    > as dialects are used, for instance, in Italy.

    Good point, there's no other alternative, I would hope that new Polish
    governement impleneted something revolutionary requiring every citizen to study
    english from 1st grade of the elementary school.

    > There needs to be a common tax system, as in the USA (plus local federal
    > taxes). Without this, there will continue being too many inequalities, and a
    > difficulty to integrate necessary centralised spending.
    > There needs to be common education and health policies. +++++++
    > Now you can see why I agree with you. Luther King said it; 'I have a dream'.
    > This one's impossible.
    > The problem is in its liquidation.
    > We should end up with a quality non-integrated open alliance.

    I hope, we don't need the European Empire where most of it citizens feel more
    German, French, Polish or Spanish..anyways. I believe that the loose allience
    is the best choice.

    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • nearlypolish 15.02.06, 20:39
    Tak, pan ma racje!
    Integration has gone too far already. Do we really all want to lose our
    identity & national "foibles" (those strange things about each nation that set
    us apart from each other)
    Monetry union ....OK.....buts lets all agree to abide by the rules set.
    Unfortunatley this only applies to France when it doesn't "invade our national
    interest". Italy & Germany not far behind.
    Common agricultural policy....this is a very bad idea & costs EU citizens
    enormous amounts every year so farmers can get guarenteed prices. Meanwhile,
    the miners/steel workers & other industries (except in France of course, where
    rules are "guidelines only") are being flung on to the world markets & have to
    fight on productivity & efficiency.
    Again like you say on jobs, the French & Germans "shut the shop" when Poland
    joined the EU...what does that tell you!?

    EU should stop where it is now, no further integration on other issues & allow
    the countries to retain their sovereignty, but still co-operate on trade with
    no barriers & get rid of all those over-paid, under-worked "suits" in
    Maastricht etc. Why is they pay less tax than we do? Why is it they do not have
    to submit receipts for expenses incurred like we do? Why is it that they,
    besides a very, very high salary, get "daily attendance allownaces free of tax"
    plus all the other fantastic benfits.
    People are people & always will be, each country has competition within its own
    regions, so there is bound to be the same within the EU. Germans think all
    Poles are dirty, drunk thieves. French think the UK is all cultureless & full
    of bad food. The English think the French are arrogant, egotistical
    maniacs....& so on.
    The real problem is the "back door communism" that is evident in the corridors
    of Brussels/Maastricht, but those overpaid arseholes in Brussels don't see
    it....they are more corrupt than the Polish & Russian governments put together.
    Check out web searches for EU & accounts & you'll see that people have tried to
    show the corruption within the EU & been arrested/slinced/threatened (the
    German journalist for example).
    Bureaucracy stinks....& so does the EU.
    I don't hate any other nationality, I treat each as I would be expected to be
    treated & the same goes for 99.999% of people everywhere I think.
    Down with the EU!!!
  • waldek1610 16.02.06, 06:49
    Hello,
    Few days ago I saw the report on BBC World News, about British Nurses
    Unions...which speaker said that it is unfair that the nurses from Poland come
    to UK and bring with them the Polish rules and wages......

    She forgot (or propably didn't even care) that UK companies establish their
    presence in Poland, killing off home grown bussiness, and sucking out much of
    the capital that would otherwise be recirculated in Poland if Polish
    bussinesses were able to grow and profit....

    As you see neither Poles or British can see the other interests...
    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • russh 16.02.06, 10:43
    nurses from Poland come
    > to UK and bring with them the Polish rules and wages....

    I think that the rules are set in the UK, and that the UK minimum wage is
    significantly higher than a Polish nurse's salary in Poland!

    > UK companies establish their
    > presence in Poland, killing off home grown bussiness, and sucking out much of
    > the capital that would otherwise be recirculated in Poland if Polish
    > bussinesses were able to grow and profit....

    At least they are paying taxes here, and creating employment (unlike you, who I
    assume have never paid a zloty in tax in Poland in your life). Maybe you should
    come back to Poland and contribute to your beloved country in a positive way.
  • waldek1610 16.02.06, 10:55

    > At least they are paying taxes here, and creating employment (unlike you, who
    I
    > assume have never paid a zloty in tax in Poland in your life). Maybe you
    should
    > come back to Poland and contribute to your beloved country in a positive way.

    In Poland there's little or no work regardles weather you are educated or
    not....considering that Polish bartenders and supermarket cashiers are one of
    the most educated in the World, most of them are university graduates.

    So to set the record straight, please don't talk about "paying taxes in Poland"
    if there's no oportunities for normal living in Poland.

    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • russh 16.02.06, 11:36
    But surely after 13 years in the states you have both learnt and saved something.

    You shoudl be able to return and start your own business, or even live on a
    lower wage than you are used to (as the cost of living is less).

    The important thing is to contribute positively to the country of your heart, is
    it not? Or is it just to denegrate those who are (both the Polish people who
    have stayed in their country and those who have come to the country for whatever
    reason)?

    Seems to me you are a hypocritical egoist.
  • waldek1610 17.02.06, 06:50
    russh napisał:

    > But surely after 13 years in the states you have both learnt and saved
    somethin
    > g.
    >
    > You shoudl be able to return and start your own business, or even live on a
    > lower wage than you are used to (as the cost of living is less).


    Just because something makes perfect sense doesn't mean it is going to work in
    Poland. Unfortunatelly, there truth is that besides money much more is needed
    to start and operate succesfull bussiness in Poland.

    In contrast with USA, in Poland a startup bussiness has even smaller chances of
    survival, because the limited market and small purchasing power of Polish
    population. Plus, even if you manage to fullfill all the regulation and
    requirements, you might be faced with fighting cut throat competition or the
    extortion (panowie w dresach).

    > The important thing is to contribute positively to the country of your heart,
    > is it not? Or is it just to denegrate those who are (both the Polish people
    > who have stayed in their country and those who have come to the country for
    > whatever reason)?

    The fact that someone stayed in Poland is not nessesary a sign of hight degree
    of patriotism, but simlpy the limited options.


    > Seems to me you are a hypocritical egoist.

    You are naive foreigner, who knows nothing about Polish enviroment, despite
    you've been living in Poland for the a while.


    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • russh 17.02.06, 07:13
    > Just because something makes perfect sense doesn't mean it is going to work in
    > Poland. Unfortunatelly, there truth is that besides money much more is needed
    > to start and operate succesfull bussiness in Poland.

    Such as business acumen, or hard work? Lots of Polish people have their own
    business, and are successful. Success does not mean becoming another Bill Gates,
    but does mean earning your crust, and paying your way.

    > > The important thing is to contribute positively to the country of your he
    > art,
    > > is it not? Or is it just to denegrate those who are (both the Polish peop
    > le
    > > who have stayed in their country and those who have come to the country f
    > or
    > > whatever reason)?
    >
    > The fact that someone stayed in Poland is not nessesary a sign of hight degree
    > of patriotism, but simlpy the limited options.

    'not necessarily'! But if someone has a high degree of patriotism, like you,
    they should do all they can to help their country positively; by actions, not by
    words!

    > You are naive foreigner, who knows nothing about Polish enviroment, despite
    > you've been living in Poland for the a while.

    Naive - maybe; A foreigner - for sure; Know nothing about the Polish enviroment
    - I'm learning more every day, and believe me I'm quick to learn!; Contributing
    - absolutely.



  • waldek1610 18.02.06, 06:47
    I would love to believe in what you're saying it's true, but the reality is far
    from how you see it. You don't think that more that 10 milion Poles live
    outside Poland for no reason, do you?

    Here's is post of one Pole living in Poland that I just happened to come
    across, and I want you to read it.

    forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=44&w=36985627&a=36995831
    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • russh 18.02.06, 09:19
    I'd need a transalation Waldek - I really can't read or speak Polish.

    I know what you are saying, but things really are changing (and in my opinion
    would change a lot quicker if it were not for some of the things that you support).

    The young generation here are at least as good, and probably better than any
    other in Europe, and need to be encouraged and supported.

    Think of how many Irish and Italians went to other countries, and have now
    returned, or would like to.
  • waldek1610 18.02.06, 10:43
    russh napisał:

    > I'd need a transalation Waldek - I really can't read or speak Polish.

    Autor: asciaxx

    Hello...
    cześć...

    Reading your post was a real pleasure as for a moment it made mee feel rally
    good smile In my mind I dream of Poland as wonderfull as JAPAN.
    czytając twoja wypowiedz zrobiło mi sie chwilke miło i przyjemniesmile w glowie
    wymarzyła mi sie taka wspaniała polska jak JAPONIA.

    What you described earlier is my biggest dream, but I don't believe in that
    things are going to get better any time soon in this big mess (Poland).
    to co wypisałeś to takie moje marzenie ale nie wierze w szybka poprawe w tym
    syfie.

    Everything is going to change for better perheaps in 100 years, but I will no
    longer be here in this big mess.
    wszystko sie zmieni za jakies 100 lat ale mnie juz tu nie bedzie w tym siecie.

    I have no choice but to leave and don't look back. And I will not pretend this
    country offered me anything.
    wiec pozostaje mi jedno wyjechac stad i nawet sie nie ogladac za siebie. i nie
    udawać że ten kraj mi cos dał.

    So far all it has to offer to me is a scum, stench and dog crap on the
    sidewalks everywhere.. everywhere you look poverty...still somehow they always
    find 20 milions zlotys for a Temple of Provenience!!
    bo jak narazie to mi daje brud smród i kupy na chodnikach i widze wszedzie
    biede... ale na swiatynie opatrznosci to k... 20milionkow sie znalazlo!!

    We can expect anytime now, Poland is going to change name to "Catholicland".
    All the Best and I envy you sincerelly the normality you live inuncertain
    niedlugo opewnie polska zmieni nazwe na katoland to ja juz chyba zejde ehh...
    pozdrawiam cie i zazdroszcze z całego serduszka za normalnoscuncertain

    Don't come back, because if you return here you'll regret you steped back in
    this crap, take us with you hahaha.
    nie wracaj tutaj bo jak sie tu wraca to sie zawsze w cos wdepnie ehhh zabierz
    nas do siebie hihihi


    >
    > I know what you are saying, but things really are changing (and in my opinion
    > would change a lot quicker if it were not for some of the things that you
    > support).

    The catholic church nor patriotism is not a problem for Poland, the real
    problem that sets Poland back is corruption and the leftist parties that untill
    recently rulled and preyed on Poland, they are corrupt to the bone and are very
    reason why Poland is not making real progress.

    > The young generation here are at least as good, and probably better than any
    > other in Europe, and need to be encouraged and supported.

    They are better because they have not been spoiled by liberals, and it is
    catholic faith that makes them believe they can make a difference for
    themselves and finally for all Poland.

    > Think of how many Irish and Italians went to other countries, and have now
    > returned, or would like to.

    I believe that will happen maybe in 30 or 40 years when I'm old...But not so
    fast mr. Russh, I would not be so optimistic in Poland's case, it is going to
    take time. What Poland needs it at least 40 years of transition, and once the
    old generation spoiled by communism dies, the new one will be able to begin
    anew...just like in a Bible smile
    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • russh 18.02.06, 11:17
    >
    > The catholic church nor patriotism is not a problem for Poland

    I would beg to differ. If I understood your translation (thank you), the person
    rightly says that if as much money was spent on creating wealth as was spent on
    building churches, then maybe Poland would be a different country. He says that
    the country should be re-named 'CatholicLand'. Thinhs are changing - so much the
    better.

    > So far all it has to offer to me is a scum, stench and dog crap on the
    > sidewalks everywhere..

    This is just a lack of respect for themselves and others - something I have seen
    in other 'deeply' religious countries - strange as it may seem. Once people
    learn to respect, then they learn to live decently.

    > The catholic church nor patriotism is not a problem for Poland, the real
    > problem that sets Poland back is corruption and the leftist parties that untill
    >
    > recently rulled and preyed on Poland, they are corrupt to the bone and are very
    >
    > reason why Poland is not making real progress.

    Corruption is a problem, but has more to do with the remnants of the communist
    regeme than anything else I fear. I believe that when the communist generation
    dies, then most of Polands problems will die with it.

    > They are better because they have not been spoiled by liberals, and it is
    > catholic faith that makes them believe they can make a difference for
    > themselves and finally for all Poland.

    They have not been spoiled (full stop). Nothing to do with 'liberals', but to
    do, in my opinion with bad parenting and education in other Western countries.
    We have lost too many of the traditional values (in this I would agree with you,
    but would not attribute this loss of values to a reduction in faith).

    > I believe that will happen maybe in 30 or 40 years when I'm old...But not so
    > fast mr. Russh, I would not be so optimistic in Poland's case, it is going to
    > take time. What Poland needs it at least 40 years of transition, and once the
    > old generation spoiled by communism dies, the new one will be able to begin
    > anew...just like in a Bible :

    It will be quicker, I feel sure. We are in agreement re the need to get rid of
    the remnants of the communist era, and get the younger generation, who I have
    much faith in, into power. I do not see a place for the Radio Marya band, or the
    church, in Politics. There job, if any, is to contribute to the moral fibre of
    the country, and nothing else.


  • waldek1610 18.02.06, 12:32
    Well, that person whos post I translated for you sounded very desperate, if you
    realise that about 20% Poles don't have a job, and a majority of those that do,
    can't afford decend living of their wages and would emigrated without
    hasitation if they had a chance.

    Come on Russh, don't you ever watch Polish TV, don't you know that even
    educated Poles like; Medical Doctors or IT ingenieers are mass emigrating to
    the West?

    Radio Maryja or TV Trwam is more a solution then a problem, at least they give
    a voice to poor, unemployed Poles who no comercial nor even national media
    cares for. The problem was always the corrupt classes of SLD mafia, they did
    everything in their might to stop social progress in Poland, they quadrupled
    their banks accounts ballaces, while about 90% of Poles can't even aford to
    rent an apartment or buy adequate food for their families...
    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • russh 18.02.06, 13:33
    waldek1610 napisał:

    > Well, that person whos post I translated for you sounded very desperate, if you
    >
    > realise that about 20% Poles don't have a job, and a majority of those that do,
    >
    > can't afford decend living of their wages and would emigrated without
    > hasitation if they had a chance.
    >
    > Come on Russh, don't you ever watch Polish TV, don't you know that even
    > educated Poles like; Medical Doctors or IT ingenieers are mass emigrating to
    > the West?

    Inevitable, until Poland's wealth increases, which it is. It could and should be
    faster, but Kaszynski is concentrating on his power base, not on the country's
    needs. For sure the previous administrations were terrible, but we have both
    agreed that until the post communist generation get power, then it will not
    change radically.

    > Radio Maryja or TV Trwam is more a solution then a problem,

    I don't agree. They are not giving a voice to the poor, they are taking
    advantage of them.

    > The problem was always the corrupt classes of SLD mafia, they did
    > everything in their might to stop social progress in Poland, they quadrupled
    > their banks accounts ballaces, while about 90% of Poles can't even aford to
    > rent an apartment or buy adequate food for their families...

    That's communism for you.
  • russh 18.02.06, 11:21
    Waldek, if you posted as you have done here, with concrete opinions (even if I
    may disagree with them), and not just derogetory remarks about the Anglo-Saxons,
    then I for one would very much enjoy the discussion with you.

    Please keep it up - we may even learn from each other.

    Russ
  • waldek1610 18.02.06, 12:46
    Russh,
    I'm against posting links and retyping internet articles I read, because I
    prefer instead to comment and think independently. Besides there's no sence to
    cluter this forum with reprints, because everybody can read same news and
    expert commentaries on the Web...

    You just made me realize that you don't get to read Polish language forums
    which makes up some 99.8% of all postings on Gazeta forums, this is the reason
    why you are not realy familiar with what majority or Polish population is
    humming about....I understand it is the language barier, and you listen to
    people like Maggie or Ianek serve you distorted picture of Poland because they
    belong to the nuovo-richiess class of post communist SLD mafia that is praying
    on Poland and enjoys a lot of luxuries than most moles can't even dream of.


    --
    Polska jest w moim sercu!
  • russh 18.02.06, 13:44
    I form my views from speaking to people in Warsaw and it's surronding areas (I
    teach English), from what I see as I go around, and English language journals
    (of which there are many).

    Their ideas are mostly different to yours. In fact Warsaw voted heavily against
    the present government. This is the generation I see and am very impressed with,
    and will be the future of Poland.

    I believe from what I read of Maggie and Ian's posts that we are not of the same
    political opinions, but I respect what they say, even if I disagree. I have not
    found them to be incessantly denegrating in their comments.

    Poland will take time to improve - we both agree. It will improve much quicker
    with less corruption - we both agree. Poland is not an easy place to live in for
    a considerable number of Poles - we both agree. There is a quality younger
    generation - we both agree. See, there are many things where we agree.

    I would re-iterate that this seems to be a different Waldek, one with whom it is
    possible to discuss, even if we are not in agreement. Please continue.
  • russh 18.02.06, 13:46
    P.S

    For sure my lack of Polish makes it more difficult (at the very least) to
    appreciate the wider view. I wish I had the will to learn. Maybe one day!
  • varsovian 16.02.06, 10:57
    And the UK is open for M&A activity - unlike France which has recently drawn up
    a list of "national champions" to protect because they are so central to French
    life ... and weak.
    I can't say takeovers are always a good thing, but protectionism is generally
    bad for everybody. Polish firms are increasingly winning public contracts
    abroad - should we stop that? Of course not.
  • russh 16.02.06, 11:32
    Its called a free market, and this is where, if there is no protectionism,
    Poland will win for now. It has to have quality at competitive prices (and in
    many areas that's exactly what it has, and is now demonstrating to have).

    Couldn't agree with you more.
  • ianek70 16.02.06, 13:25
    nearlypolish napisał:

    > Integration has gone too far already. Do we really all want to lose our
    > identity & national "foibles" (those strange things about each nation that
    set
    > us apart from each other)

    Polish history shows that nobody really loses their national, regional or most
    importantly personal identity just because of politicians signing things and
    redrawing maps.
    Poland, as a state, quite often disappears for a few centuries, but do Poles
    then shave off their moustaches, throw away their potatoes and start speaking
    German?
    The British state has existed for almost 300 years, but ask a British citizen
    where he or she is from, and 99% will say "England", "Scotland" or "Wales".
    Inhabitants of Newcastle and London have (as far as I know) lived in the same
    country and state for 1000 years, but have they stopped criticising each other
    for their weird accents, horrible beer and other stereotypes?
    Nobody needs someone hundreds of miles away (whether it's Warsaw, London, Rome
    or Brussels) to tell them who they are.

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