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Who killed Sikorski

08.09.06, 20:15
It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
afraid he may survive it.
englishmen - the worst human trash on earth
Edytor zaawansowany
  • babiana 08.09.06, 23:28
    "The inquiry's finding about the jammed controls, he wrote, seemed plausible.
    "But it still leaves open the question of what -- or who -- jammed them. No one
    has ever provided a satisfactory answer." According to another paper, there were
    other "curious aspects of the affair", on which the inquiry had thrown no light,
    "eg, that (the Soviet Ambassador, Ivan) Maisky's aircraft was drawn up beside
    Sikorski's Liberator in the period immediately before the accident."

    MaiskyBy a remarkable coincidence, Maisky (right) had also arrived in Gibraltar
    on the morning of July 4, 1943, on his way to Moscow. His Liberator landed just
    after 7am -- the time at which, evidence shows, Sikorski's aircraft was left
    unguarded. Another pitfall for the Government was the fact that the head of the
    British Secret Intelligence Service's counter-intelligence department for the
    Iberian Peninsula section from 1941 to 1944 was Kim Philby, the Soviet
    double-agent who defected in 1963, and later claimed to have been a double-agent
    since the Forties. Before 1941, Philby served as an instructor with the Special
    Operations Executive -- which specialised in sabotage behind enemy lines".

    There is no evidence that Enlishmen killed him, but there is an evidence that
    somebody else did it. Probably Russians. Sikorski was the only man who stood up
    to Stalin.
    --
    Jesli jeden czlowiek powie ci, ze masz osle uszy, nie przejmuj sie, jesli powie
    ci to dwoch ludzi, przygotuj sobie siodlo.
  • sobieski010 09.09.06, 06:51
    In my view very likely. Stalin had only to gain from a dead Sikorski.
    Only he united the London Poles and only he had the universal respect of the
    Western Allies.
  • nasza_maggie 09.09.06, 00:28
    marimax napisał:

    > It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
    > afraid he may survive it.
    > englishmen - the worst human trash on earth



    I hate to provoke a troll but there you go.



    You ask a question and the answer it for yourself, so what's the point? To
    provoke people to prove to you otherwise???

    "Looks like"? Where is the evidence? What is the evidence?

    What have you read about the event? How much about history do you know?

    (How old are you?)


    When you start giving us some anwsers, then it is quite possible that this
    might turn into a proper discussion, instead of name calling and proof of lack
    of manners on from you (as usual).

    --
    All dogs go to heaven...
  • usenetposts 10.09.06, 01:07
    marimax napisał:

    > It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
    > afraid he may survive it.
    > englishmen - the worst human trash on earth

    Terrible we are, killing Sikorski just for fun when he was on our side. How
    rotten can you get?

    Still, we helped Poland retain its big EU funding, so you have to forgive us.

    --
    - Uncle Davey's Homepage -
    :: Foreigners Living in Poland Forum
  • kapitan_ameryka 11.09.06, 12:03
    Simple question... why english MI archives - containing evidence and hearings
    from this case - will be opened long after all those who could be interested in
    it will pass away???

    There was something. Maybe not british, but soviets (soviet ambassador to UK,
    was at the rock on that day - refuelling his Liberator, on a way to Moscow). If
    british didnt do it, it is almost clear that they knew about it, which later
    explains why they "sold Poland" to Stalin.

    I am not a troll, and it was not me who provoked this question. I am just
    bringing few proofs of evidence of "true british" way of dealing with Poland at
    that time. I dont blame british for doing so, as this way possible war with
    soviets was avoided.
  • sobieski010 11.09.06, 12:46
    In 1944 Britain was the smaller brother of the allies and not in a position to
    enforce her will.
    It was because of traitors such as Alger Hiss and Harry Dexter White that
    Roosevelt policy towards Poland (and also towards De Gaulle) was shaped.
    Not only that but they hid theit utmost best to ruin Britain during the war and
    to destroy the country's economic foundations.
    Dexter White died on a very practical moment while testifying before the HUAC.
  • usenetposts 11.09.06, 13:04
    Precisely. To this day we cannot fathom why it was that France and Germany
    received Marshall Plan aid, and we received a bill to pay only.

    It turns out that the loyalty of France and Germany were not bought by these
    pathetic bribes, and they do not fight with America today, but theones fighting
    today with America are its true friends the UK and Poland, which it managed to
    treat like all kinds of shit as little as 61 years ago.

    So if you want a lesson in how to behave to your friends like they were your
    enemies and vice versa, ask your typical American, and they'll show you in
    excrutiating detail.

    When do Poles get visa free access to the States, btw. After how many litres of
    the old red vintage krovvy will that be?

    --
    - Uncle Davey's Homepage -
    :: Foreigners Living in Poland Forum
  • sobieski010 11.09.06, 21:31
    Why two such proud countries now kiss the ass of Bush?
    Very bizarre seeing Kaczynski lowering his head to the ground to meet The Great
    Idiot, and at the same time these LPR idiots doing their utmost best to offend
    their primary trading partner... Germany.
    Actually I admire France (for once - and believe me, for a Fleming that is hard)
    and Germany to stand up against the USA. Remember Colin Powell delivering his
    pack of lies about why we should attack Iraq - and Joshka Fischer calmly cutting
    through this neocon shit with a simple "I do not believe you" ?
  • firemouse 12.09.06, 10:31
    Just to resist is not an answer. What alternative do French propose?

    Apart from the currently ridiculous behaviour of our officials, considering the
    reluctancy of Western Europe to get involved in any military action, it is
    better to go with USA. Germans will sell us their goods as long as they earn on it.

    Russia wants the energy hegemony over entire continent. What if the decide to
    stroll westwards and just stop delivering oil? Where will you get fuel for tanks
    and aircrafts? Germany tries to push us in Russian arms, and this does not bring
    us anything good - as always. Sure, we should maintain good relations with
    Germany, but don't count on them if you see red stars over your head one day.
  • usenetposts 11.09.06, 13:00
    We actually were in favour of war with the soviets, but not without US backing.
    Churchill was unable to persuade Roosevelt that he should not be loyal to
    Stalin for the wartime alliance against Hitler, but unfortunately that's the
    understanding America had of Russian affairs at that time. They were destined
    to wake up only a bit too late.

    --
    - Uncle Davey's Homepage -
    :: Foreigners Living in Poland Forum
  • babiana 11.09.06, 14:47
    Churchill opposed the anexation of Poland by the Soviet Union but finally he was
    unable to prevent it. The decision was up to Roosevelt. He mentioned this often
    in his books and felt haunted by his helplessness till the end of his life.
    --
    Jesli jeden czlowiek powie ci, ze masz osle uszy, nie przejmuj sie, jesli powie
    ci to dwoch ludzi, przygotuj sobie siodlo.
  • firemouse 11.09.06, 13:28
    Bullshit.

    They could easily shot him down over Biscaya and claim this was done by Germans.
    No need to make a troublesome show with the water landing.

    Also, before the Gibraltar Sikorski has visited Polish troops in Middle East and
    Northern Africa, so it was even better occasion to do something when he was
    travelling from Cairo. One can blame then Afrika Korps or Italians.

    I've read a book which title just escaped my mind, but after a long and rather
    well eveidenced story the responsibility is laid on Soviets, who allegedly sent
    some spies down there to Polish Army in Africa and Gibraltar itself, and Majski
    just went to Gibraltar to witness the decline of his enemy.

    So the Soviets then.

    What is your problem with Englishmen, by the way?
  • sobieski010 11.09.06, 14:08
    It is probably the book which is now for sale in Empik here in Warsaw. Have
    forgotten the title though.
  • babiana 11.09.06, 14:58
    firemouse napisał:
    >
    > So the Soviets then.

    Another question. Who tried to kill JPII?



    --
    Jesli jeden czlowiek powie ci, ze masz osle uszy, nie przejmuj sie, jesli powie
    ci to dwoch ludzi, przygotuj sobie siodlo.
  • firemouse 12.09.06, 10:23
    Babiana, don't pull obvious answers.

    Can you say, who wanted to enter Poland in 1981?
  • varsovian 12.09.06, 12:23
    As for Sikorski, I have my own pet theory.
    Obviously, it was on Russian orders. Only an ignoramus could fail to see that!
    (i) Britain had no culture of assassinating leaders (Heydrich being the only
    exception)
    (ii) Britain had absolutely nothing to gain from making an extravagant gesture
    simply to please an obviously antaganistic Russia
    (iii) The actual assassin was probably an English Communist agent - best access
    to the plane
  • firemouse 12.09.06, 14:52
    Oh, Britain had something to lose. Stalin continously threatened to ceasefire on
    the eastern front. Remember that Soviets were Germans enemy just a year then,
    and before they were allies. And eastern front was crucial to keep Germans busy
    away from the Isles.

    Soviets wanted already that time to install a controlled government in Poland so
    the London one was not pleasant to them. That's also why the sabotaged
    Churchill's plan to invade Europe from Balkans - they were scary that Central
    Europe will not fall into their realms.

    All after all, teh one who killed was probably member of Polish troops or army,
    but there were so many communist agents in UK these days that your theory is
    very likely too. I always wondered, what all these people in west seen so
    attractive in communism. We should swap for these 45 years smile
  • babiana 12.09.06, 14:12
    firemouse napisał:

    > Babiana, don't pull obvious answers.
    >
    > Can you say, who wanted to enter Poland in 1981?

    It seems that all roads lead to Rome. Sorry, Moscow.
    --
    Jesli jeden czlowiek powie ci, ze masz osle uszy, nie przejmuj sie, jesli powie
    ci to dwoch ludzi, przygotuj sobie siodlo.
  • firemouse 12.09.06, 14:45
    Eh, no. Actually our friends East Germans or however you call the DDR rulers.

    Second in line stayed Czechoslovakia who wanted to convert Wroclaw into late
    Hradec Kralove.

    Moscow was very deliberate over the issue and they were locked up in Afghanistan
    so did not want to make west world nervous. Besides, they had bases here already
    so indeed did not need to get into. They could get tanks from Marsa Street to
    the city center in less than half an hour. So why bother.
  • varsovian 12.09.06, 15:22
    The Germans and Czechs obviously had designs on Polish territory????
    I suppose their hardline Communist governments were independent of the Russians
    too ...
    Oh purrlease
  • firemouse 13.09.06, 10:06
    They were dependant, that's why it did not happen. Imagine Volksarmee marching
    through Szczecin. Soviets wanted everything under control and they could not
    allow their puppets to fight between themselves. DDR invasion would cause
    resistance and fight. Not mentioning the resentments to retake of "alt Heimat".

    However, much later on, in some 1987 or 1988 the citizens of Szczecin woke up
    one morning to see DDR monitors at the Odra banks. The scandal erupted and
    (obvoiusly after Soviet intervention, who said them to back off) the same day
    they vanished, but you can imagine what a real invasion would cause...
  • kapitan_ameryka 13.09.06, 16:35
    Son, Biscaya was at that time controlled by allied air forces. Shooting its own
    plane there would show to public that in fact allies are loosing air war. At
    that time there were intensive raids over Reich, which caused lots of losses in
    planes and crews. Thats why shooting its own plane there was not a good idea.

    Second. Planes flying to the Rock, were flying far over the atlantic, way
    beyond reach of any kind of german plane.

    Third. Despite the fact, that planes were beyond the reach of germans, they had
    a good fighter cover all along the way. Half way from UK, the other half from
    the Rock.

    Fourth. Afrika Corps lost the war in 1942. On 23 january 1943 last solders were
    evacuated or captured. Read history.
  • sobieski010 12.09.06, 19:48
    I think the Poles better should not complain too much. When Hitler invaded the
    last part of Czechslovakia, the Poles were very fast to invade the Czech area of
    Ciesyzn /Teschen. You would almost think they did it in cooperation with the
    Germans. (Which might be the case actually)

    As for the Balkan... Ah well if you see how difficult the Italy campaign was (in
    a civilised country with a good infrastructure), you might think how difficult
    it might be to advance in Yugoslavia.
    Besides I do not think Tito would stand idle.
  • minimus 12.09.06, 20:24
    sorry, I have to say that: load of bull there from you Sobieski!

    1. This Czech invasion is brought up so often by ppl who have no idea about
    this. First of all Cieszyn was taken from us by the Czechs during the Polish -
    Soviet war of 1920. Poles were actually a majority there. Did you know that?
    Secondly (that I am not completely sure of, but I think I know more about it
    than you anyway (thats not difficult), the Czechs knowing that they are
    finished by the Germans asked us to take it back. Now, we (as Poles) said many
    times that we are sorry and we should have not done this. What the hell do you
    want more?

    2. Italy more civilised than Yugo?? WTF??!! So the allies could take an express
    train and proceed across the whole country. Do you actually know
    how "civilised" southern Italy was back than? Do you actually know anything
    about what you wrote here?
  • sobieski010 12.09.06, 21:00
    Getting personal is not the best idea, first of all.
    Then, Teschen was one of these myriad Central European enclaves with a very
    mixed population. I admit the Czech army went into it in 1920 on a moment Poland
    was pre-occupied fighting the Soviets.
    Very funny this quotation "The Czechs asked us to take it back". And very sad
    because as it happens the Czechs were the only genuine democratic people in the
    whole of Central Europe.
    I think it is preposterous thinking only Poles know and judge what happened in
    Poland.
    Besides, speaking of majorities - that is always a dangerous subject. What about
    the Kresy, where in many areas there were hardly any Poles living?

    About Italy. It took the allies untill May 1945 to reach the Austrian border.
    Who speaks here of an express train?
    How long would it have taken them to march through an extremely rugged country
    such as Yugoslavia, with Tito not exactly being very enthusiast?
    See here also the conflict in the Trieste area and the Yugoslavian/Austrian
    borderlands between Tito and the Western allies.
  • minimus 12.09.06, 21:28
    I don't think I got personal. If I did however, so did you. You are saying
    stupid things about all of Poles. You pointed your finger at us saying we did
    something bad. I came up with arguments and facts, not opinions. You now talk
    about Czechoslovakia being democratic, and something about "it is preposterous
    thinking only Poles know and judge what happened in Poland", you also bring up
    Kresy. WTF are going on about man???!!! Your nationality is not an issue here,
    political system in Czechoslovakia is not an issue here, and Kresy... I just
    stood up and pointed a finger at you saying you talk bull shit. And I still
    think so.
  • marimax 13.09.06, 19:58
    I cry every time I read about the great english people who won the war without
    anybody's help, defeted Luftwaffe all by themselves, went through Italy without
    even noticing Monte Casino, decoded Enigma themselves........
    What a nation and now we have to be grateful to these great people for letting
    us in the EU and opening it's job markets for desperate people from Poland who
    can not find work in Poland because the commies and it's allies from the west
    destroyed most of industry so there is no competition for it's products.
    At the same time hundreds of thousands of young english people don't want to
    work preferring to live on governmet handouts
    What a country, what a people
  • sobieski010 13.09.06, 21:27
    I think you are pathetic. In case you would not have noticed - in the Summer of
    1940 during the Battle of Britain you Yanks were producing refrigerators and
    Cadillacs, when Churchill saved also your stupid ass.
    On the moment Joe Kennedy was waiting to sell the UK to Hitler. When the the
    entire US Treasury thought Uncle Joe was a great guy who only wanted world peace.
    As I said - pathetic.
  • babiana 14.09.06, 05:31
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
    --
    Jesli jeden czlowiek powie ci, ze masz osle uszy, nie przejmuj sie, jesli powie
    ci to dwoch ludzi, przygotuj sobie siodlo.
  • babiana 14.09.06, 06:11
    news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/930873.stm
    --
    Jesli jeden czlowiek powie ci, ze masz osle uszy, nie przejmuj sie, jesli powie
    ci to dwoch ludzi, przygotuj sobie siodlo.
  • babiana 14.09.06, 06:23
    culture.polishsite.us/articles/art207fr.htm
    --
    Jesli jeden czlowiek powie ci, ze masz osle uszy, nie przejmuj sie, jesli powie
    ci to dwoch ludzi, przygotuj sobie siodlo.
  • nasza_maggie 15.09.06, 01:54
    usenetposts napisał:

    > I thought Italy was one of the cradles of civilisation.
    >
    > As long as you could get a glass of cold grappa and some prime paste, how bad
    > could it be?
    >

    hmmmmmmm Italian drivers?smile))))


    --
    All dogs go to heaven...
  • nasza_maggie 15.09.06, 01:53
    sobieski010 napisał:

    > I think the Poles better should not complain too much. When Hitler invaded the
    > last part of Czechslovakia, the Poles were very fast to invade the Czech area
    o
    > f
    > Ciesyzn /Teschen. You would almost think they did it in cooperation with the
    > Germans. (Which might be the case actually)
    >

    I'm not even going to laugh.


    --
    All dogs go to heaven...
  • ianek70 14.09.06, 10:54
    My God! It was the Poles!
    I'll never trust them again.

    marimax napisał:

    > It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
    > afraid he may survive it.
    > englishmen - the worst human trash on earth

    Find a new boring obsession, you sad little runt.
  • marimax 15.09.06, 20:28
    It only proves how stupid you are.
    Popieluszko was killed by your heros, communists.
    Remember: good commie is dead commie

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