> rzeczywistość sobie,pan Brzeziński sobie.
Tak rzeczywistosc jest inna anizeli ta przedstawiana w mediach USA.
Ponizej fragment wywiadu Australijskiego dziennikarza specjalisty od Bliskiego
...ELEANOR HALL: You say the US will have to get out of Iraq, but it will need
the help of Iran and Syria to do so…
ROBERT FISK: Of course, of course it will.
ELEANOR HALL: Now, how would that work?
ROBERT FISK: It'll need the help of Iran to make sure that all Shi'ite
resistance to the United States ends during the withdrawal, and it'll need the
help of the Syrians, who do have a lot of influence along the border with Iraq,
to make sure that there is some kind of deal with the insurgents that the
Americans can leave not under fire.
You see, I mean I've said this before, but the terrible equation, of course
politically, from an American political point of view as well, in Iraq, is that
the Americans must leave, and they will leave, and they can't leave.
And that's the equation that turns sand into blood. And that remains the case.
It's very easy to invade other people's countries; it's very difficult to get
out of them. It should be the other way around, but unfortunately it's not.
That's how it happens.
And the Brits found that, you know, all over the Middle East. And every time,
every time, every time the authorities of the occupying power say the same
things - we will not talk to terrorists. The Americans say it too. And they
don't read history books, because at the end of the day the Americans will have
to talk to the insurgents in Iraq, and they will, they will.
ELEANOR HALL: Now, the victory for Hamas, in the Palestinian elections, how
closely is the West's reaction to this being watched in the Arab world?
ROBERT FISK: With its usual cynicism, yes. It's the same old story - we demand
democracy, we demand they have freedom to vote, and they vote for the wrong
people, so we try to destroy the government that's been freely elected. We love
democracy, providing the Muslim nations elect the people we want.
I mean, we keep hearing the Israelis will not deal with Hamas. The Israelis
created Hamas. When the PLO were in Beirut, and the Israelis wanted to
counteract the PLO, they urged Hamas to set up more mosques and social
institutions in Gaza.
Even after Oslo a senior Israeli officer, and this was reported on the front
page of The Jerusalem Post, held official talks with Hamas officials in
Jerusalem. Israel won't deal with Hamas… this is just a facade of narrative,
for us, the press.
There is a narrative being set down for us where there will not be
negotiations, but there can be any time the Israelis want, and if they find it
in their interest, they will.
ELEANOR HALL: And yet you're in no doubt that Hamas, or certain members of
Hamas, are terrorists?
ROBERT FISK: Look, I don't use the word terrorist about anybody. This has
become a semantically meaningless word. Look, there are people in the Hamas
movement who support the murder of innocent people, yes, of course.
There are… I'm not trying to make equivalences here, but when you have an
Israeli air force officer, as we did at one occasion in Gaza, who bombs a block
of apartments, knowing that he will kill innocent children, as well as a man
who is believed to be behind suicide bombings, what is that man? What goes on
in his brain too?
ELEANOR HALL: Now, you make the point in your book about the targeted killing
of Hamas leaders coming back …
ROBERT FISK: The murder. I don't say targeted killing.
ELEANOR HALL: Okay.
ROBERT FISK: The murder.
ELEANOR HALL: The killing of leaders of Hamas will come back to haunt the
leaders of the West. What do you mean…
ROBERT FISK: Well, we already did have - a year and a half ago I think - the
murder of an Israeli Government minister in Jerusalem.
Um, you see, once you start going for leaderships, you're opening a door that
can come back at you. And the great danger is once you say, you know, we might
kill Yasser Arafat, well he died of his own accord, but I mean that was
constantly said, so then you open the door to someone saying well, let's kill
the Israeli leadership, or let's kill the British leadership.
Once you say we're going to kill Osama Bin Laden, what does that allow him to
do? He doesn't need permission of course. But what doors are you opening…
ELEANOR HALL: Aren't these doors already open?
ROBERT FISK: Oh, they've been opened now, yes.
ELEANOR HALL: But weren't they already open for people like…
ROBERT FISK: The moment we turned our back on international law and gave up on
justice and wanted revenge, that was the end.
ELEANOR HALL: Now, you describe in your book, you were there for Rafiq Hariri's
killing in Lebanon…
ROBERT FISK: I was 400 metres away, yes.
ELEANOR HALL: After that you write you're increasingly stunned by the growing
tragedy of the Middle East. Now, I would've thought that's a big statement from
someone who's been reporting from the Middle East for 30 years.
ROBERT FISK: Yes, but the Middle East has never been in such a terrible
situation, it's never been so dangerous. I've never found myself going on
assignments of such danger as I do now. Iraq's the worst assignment I've ever
been on, ever.
I think that our hypocrisy towards the Middle East, and the ruthlessness of its
own leaders, Arab leaders, has reached such a stage now that there's some kind
of… I mean, some kind of explosion is going to come.
Over… I did a CBC interview in Toronto, which I've got a copy of, three years
before 2001, and I said an explosion is coming. And obviously…
ELEANOR HALL: But do you think an explosion is still coming?
ROBERT FISK: Oh yes. I don't… it doesn't have to be a real physical one
like 'bang'. It might be. But something is coming. I mean, I feel it very
When I go back, when I went back for the book, I realised I was feeling it
because I live there, I live in a Muslim society, I live in the Middle East,
and all the people around me are Muslims.
And, clearly, living there, breathing that environment, I knew something was
going to happen. And I still think something's going to happen. I don't mean
September 11, but something.
ELEANOR HALL: But like what?
ROBERT FISK: Well, I mean, the Americans being driven out of Iraq is one, isn't
ELEANOR HALL: But if the Americans leave Iraq the suggestion is that that will
create more stability there. Is that not likely to…
ROBERT FISK: Well, I hope it would, yes. Um, yeah but, you see, if the
Americans leave Iraq it's an enormous blow to US military and political and
strategic prestige throughout the world, there's no doubt about it.
ELEANOR HALL: So you've been warned. That's the Middle East Correspondent for
the British newspaper, The Independent, Robert Fisk, who's been reporting on
the Middle East for 30 years and is in Australia this week to promote his
latest book, The Great War for Civilization. He was speaking to me earlier this