SAVEtheMALES.ca

16.02.04, 07:48
WHAT IS FEMINISM?

We are not taught history for a good reason. Feminism today is Communism.
Communism was never a Russian-based revolt of the working class. It was
always an elite mechanism to control the common man and establish world
dictatorship.
Leon Trotsky played chess with Baron Rothschild at Cafe Central in Vienna
before going on to lead the Bolshevik Revolution. (Joseph Nedava, Trotsky and
the Jews, 1972, p.36) Like Trotsky, most politicians are elite agents.

The Tavistock Institute in London directs the elite's psychological warfare
and social engineering. They cooked up second-wave feminism to destabilize
society.

According to Byron Weeks MD:

"All Tavistock and American foundation techniques have a single goal, to
break down the psychological strength of the individual and render him
helpless to oppose the dictators of the World Order. Any technique which
helps to break down the family unit, and the family inculcated principles of
religion, honour, patriotism and sexual behaviour, is used by the Tavistock
as weapons of crowd control."
...

SUBVERSION OF HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS

I don't enjoy being the bearer of bad tidings, but things have gone terribly
wrong. Satanic forces have hijacked this planet. Of course, they are not
going to tell you about it.

The super-rich have more in common with each other than with you and me. We
are "squatters" on their planet. United in secret societies, they have
infiltrated and subverted our political, economic, cultural and religious
institutions.

They are waging a secret war on humanity and are responsible for the
political and economic upheavals of the past 200 years including the
slaughter of millions.

The ultimate goal is to organize a weakened and reduced world population in
an Orwellian police state. The attack on the World Trade Centre, the "War on
Terror" and "Patriot Act" is really about this.

So is feminism. The correct male reaction to feminist social subversion is to
uphold rather than eschew the traditional vision of masculinity, marriage and
family.

wink

    • patience Re: SAVEtheEarth 16.02.04, 08:24
      the zionist-palestinian conflict is not an everyday squabble between two tiny
      groups of belligerent people. The zionist lobby controls the american congress
      and has a huge impact on the american government. American unilateralism is a
      consequence of the zionists’ increasing grip over the american
      congress/presidency. Zionists’ contempt for other peoples, other countries, for
      international law, and for the world, is increasingly spilling over into a
      contempt for the Earth itself. This would hardly matter if such attitudes were
      confined to the messianic religious nutters in the zionist state in palestine
      but zionists have now managed to infect american politicians and the american
      military with such attitudes - the most obvious consequence of which is the
      ditching of the kyoto treaty. As the zionist controlled war against terrorism
      (wart) unfolds it is likely the zionists will push the american government even
      further in the direction of unilateralism. This will almost invariably mean it
      will become even more aggressive in defending and promoting its economic and
      political interests against the rest of the world whether this might be over
      the climate, global trade, or weapons’ treaties, etc. Zionist control of the
      american government will be a disaster for the Earth. Even worse is that
      scientific opinion will no longer find itself confronted by political sceptics
      and politicians protecting vested interests but by religious nutters whose only
      concern in life is abiding by the laws of a fictitious divinity. Zionists are
      concerned only about their zionist god - nothing else matters to them whether
      this might be international law or global justice or sustainability. As far as
      zionists are concerned, sustainability will occur only when the zionist messiah
      has made his/her appearance on Earth - although whether these evil nutters are
      capable of recognizing pure goodness is highly questionable. By taking control
      of the american political system, the zionists are dragging the world back into
      an era of religious intolerance in which religious myths are given greater
      credibility than scientific evidence. Zionists' outlook on life has no place
      for the Earth.

      ===============================



      www.geocities.com/carbonomics/MCtfirm/10tf25/10tf25c_f.html#06

      www.geocities.com/carbonomics/MCtfirm/10tf00_f.html
      • patience MANKIND'S LUCIFERIAN REVOLT 16.02.04, 09:19
        'ELDERS OF ZION' SHAPE OUR CULTURE
        MANKIND'S LUCIFERIAN REVOLT

        By: Henry Makow

        Like the blind man trying to describe an elephant, I am just beginning to
        appreciate the true dimensions of evil in the world. The problem is much more
        profound than I thought.

        Since the so-called "Enlightenment" in the 1700's, Western culture has been
        based on a Lucifer-like rejection of God.

        The Enlightenment actually refers to Lucifer, the "light giver." Lucifer
        symbolizes the light of the human intellect, the defiant assertion that man can
        go it alone.

        Luciferians have an uncanny knack for making evil appear good, and good appear
        evil. For them, Lucifer represents the principle of good. He is the equal of
        the Christian God whom they describe as evil. The two exist together like light
        and darkness.

        Christianity holds that man's salvation lies in doing God's will, not his own.
        For them, Lucifer represents man's rejection of God's Plan with predictably
        tragic results. Despite the lip service we still pay to God, modern western
        culture is fundamentally anti-Christian. It is Luciferian.

        Our culture is premised on a tragic metaphysical revolt and a futile attempt to
        substitute sensual and material for spiritual fulfillment.

        We cannot feel good without being good but Luciferians have deceived us into
        thinking we can. They have us implicated in our own demise.

        HOW IT WORKS

        God's Plan (universal love) naturally conflicts with the desire of a few to
        monopolize the world's wealth and power. Luciferians in the service of wealth
        engineered the so-called Enlightenment, as well as the Revolutionary Period
        (1789-1917) that toppled kings and the two World Wars (1919-1945) that ruined
        the great nations of Europe.

        Luciferians made people think they were orphans in the universe by promoting
        Isaac Newton's mechanistic vision. When Newton's laboratory papers were finally
        examined, his actual "scientific work" turned out to be lurid and insane
        experiments in "black magic." Along with Isaac Newton, Lyndon LaRouche lists
        Francis Bacon, Hobbs, Walpole, Doestoevsky, Nietzsche, Jeremy Betham, John
        Ruskin, Bertram Russell, HG Wells as secret Satanists who have shaped our
        culture.

        The party of revolution and "progress" has been the party of Lucifer. It is
        backed by influential Jewish Luciferians. "Through the press we have gained the
        power to influence while remaining ourselves in the shade, " says the Protocols
        of the Elders of Zion (Fry,122). "The goyim have lost the habit of thinking
        unless prompted by the suggestion of our specialists." (124)

        "Think of the successes we arranged for Darwinianism, Marxism, Nietzcheism...it
        should be plain to see what a disintegrating effect these directives have had
        on the minds of the goyim." (121)

        The Jewish Luciferians are savvy enough to believe in God (but not to obey
        Him.) This is revealed in their use of the concept of "freedom" to manipulate
        the masses.

        "The word 'freedom' brings out ...men to fight against...every kind of
        authority, even against God and the laws of nature. For this reason we, when we
        come into our kingdom, shall have to erase this word from the lexicon of life
        as implying a principle of brute force which turns mobs into bloodthirsty
        beasts." (126, emphasis mine)

        The Elders of Zion say that freedom is viable when it rests "upon the
        foundation of faith in God, upon the brotherhood of humanity...This is why [we
        must] undermine all faith [in the] Godhead and the spirit, and to put in its
        place arithmetical calculations and material needs...Thus, all nations will be
        swallowed up in pursuit of gain and...will not take note of their common foe."

        "This intensified struggle...will create, nay, has already created
        disenchanted, cold and heartless communities...Their only guide is gain, that
        is Gold, which they will erect into a veritable cult..."(128)

        Isn't our world confirmation of the authenticity of this document?

        EQUALITY

        What do the founders of Communism and class warfare really think about social
        equality?

        "When our kingdom comes [it will be] essential [to teach that] the structure of
        human life requires division of labor and consequently the division of men into
        classes and conditions...owing in the difference in the objects of human
        activity there cannot be any equality..." (124)

        Similarly, feminism is not about giving power to women but actually taking it
        away. Woman's real power lies in sexual surrender, which they exchange for love
        (marriage). The Luciferians propose that women should indulge in sex without
        love. Albert Pike, the leader of 19th Freemasonry advised his fellow masons:

        "Woman fetters thee by thy desires; we say to the adept, ...use women often and
        without passion; thou wilt thus become master of thy passions and thou wilt
        enchain woman." (Occult Theocracy, p.234)

        According to Lyndon Larouche, "reducing sexual practises to the level of
        bestiality is a crucial feature of Satanism in all historical periods..."

        THE MARQUIS DE SADE

        "Young maidens, do not defend your virtue," the Marquis de Sade advised.

        Sade gave his name to sadism, which is the same as Satanism. Once discussed in
        horrified whispers, Sade is now often celebrated as a "heroic apostle of
        individual rights, a giant of philosophical thought, and a martyr for freedom
        of conscience." (Sade, A Biographical Essay" by Laurence Bongie,2000)

        The Hollywood film Quills (2001) portrays ordinary folk gathering together to
        enjoy Sade's hard-core pornography as though it were a wholesome songbook or
        the Sears Christmas catalogue. The young heroine, a laundry girl played by Kate
        Winslett explains that bondage and flagellation provides relief from her
        tedious chores. I doubt if it helps her become a faithful wife or devoted
        mother.

        "Let us give ourselves indiscriminately to everything our passions suggest, and
        we will always be happy...Conscience is not the voice of Nature but only the
        voice of prejudice," Sade wrote.

        This is what Luciferians want us to believe but the truth is that real morality
        is not prejudice but a proven guide to health and happiness.

        Oscar Wilde's contends that the only way to overcome temptation is to succumb
        to it, but that assumes we will outgrow it. Satanists don't.

        Sade was not imprisoned for his ideas but for "his repeated...criminal sexual
        assaults on women" according to Laurence Bongie. Hollywood bears responsibility
        for portraying him as a hero but this hasn't stopped them from planning another
        eulogy for homosexual pedophile Dr. Alfred Kinsey who died from a disease
        associated with self-abuse.

        CONCLUSION

        The triumph of immorality in popular culture is not random, not a concession to
        popular taste, not commercially driven. The relentless attack on wholesomeness
        is part of an insidious multi-century effort to subvert mankind, a cosmic
        struggle for the soul of man.

        God is beckoning us to discover our divinity, our destiny, and our true bliss.
        But Luciferians do not intend for this to happen. They are gradually converting
        mankind to their Satanic culture. They use concepts such as free and equal to
        create a world that will be anything but. They have recruited armies of well-
        intentioned people whose careers depend on them not seeing the big picture.

        Let me leave you with this thought. What if the whole universe was created so
        that God could one day know Himself through His creation? What if we
        represented His most advanced creation?

        It's a heavy responsibility; one that mankind had better start taking
        seriously.

        Otherwise, we will miss our Divine Rendezvous, and may not get another chance.

        http://www.etherzone.com/2003/mako090803.shtml
    • patience Females-Destroying Patriarchy by the Jewish Elite 16.02.04, 08:52
      Pizzey describes how feminists work in concert with each other to force men out
      of key positions.

      "Before very long they were employing each other and 'marginalizing' the men
      who tried to work along side them. Men, intimidated by their brutal, violent
      behavior, moved on and out of many jobs."

      The workplace has become a strong "male-provider" and fits the Gynaeceum model.
      This concept has been advanced and strongly condoned by communist Jews and
      Zionist financiers.
      ...
      Females are now the new sentinels for the one-world order. Positioned in the
      front ranks of every governmental agency, they carry out the feminist
      directives without questioning them. Thus is the Gynarchy advanced. Likewise,
      the same is observed in business entities as well. Makow concludes:

      "Feminists are the unwitting foot soldiers in this New World Order."

      Indeed, he is correct when he promulgates: "The purpose [of feminism] is to
      destroy the nuclear family, decrease population, arrest personal development,
      and destabilize society." However, it is women in general who have been misled.
      Lesbian/Jewish feminists are the witting marshals for advancing the Jewish
      communist and Zionist cabal's war. The Zionists' ultimate goal is to destroy
      the white race and its culture - the one threat standing between them and their
      one-world government.
      www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/lettersOct-Nov03/110503eduardoarmywomen.jpg
      Status of the War

      Zionist financiers have successfully identified, divided and confused its enemy
      as prescribed by Sun Tsu's Art of War. They have attacked their enemy's social,
      religious, and political infrastructure. With the aid of the media, they have
      used propaganda to further their cause. Indeed, the Zionist cabal has already
      separated itself from the masses into luxurious purdah while an army of
      officers, scouts, and sentinels carries out its plan for world domination.

      "The Zionist Organization is a body unique in character, with practically all
      the functions and duties of a government, but deriving its strength and
      resources not from one territory but from some seventy-two different countries.
      The supreme government is in the hands of the Zionist Congress, composed of
      over 200 delegates, representing shekel payers of all countries. Congress meets
      once every two years. Its [supreme government] powers between sessions are then
      delegated to the Committee [Sanhedrin]."

      The rules of engagement for their fraternity have previously been defined while
      still preserving unyielding secrecy from the masses. A very different standard
      is to be applied to the plebeian masses, in which strict rules of conduct will
      be applied. Prejudice in doing business against the unknowing masses would be
      set into motion while advantage was given to its members and shabbes goys.

      "As for the final result of the Messianic revolution it will always be the
      same...the nations will be converted to Judaism and will obey the law, or else
      they will be destroyed, and the Jews will be the masters of the world."

      Once power were achieved, the strategists would seek to maintain a tight
      control over the public. Any further threats against the noblesse would be
      prioritized and dealt with harshly. Kings and rulers throughout history have
      long recognized uprisings as being the direst menace against governance, not
      threats abroad. Certainly, the purpose of a strong military has been to
      minimize danger from other governments yet, used sparingly to control their own
      population. Armed forces employed against their own citizenry often had a
      pejorative effect for rule and order, leading to even greater risk of
      rebellion.

      Indeed, a docile and obedient citizenry is in any ruler's interest. However,
      the masses are fickle and hard to control. The harbinger for any uprising is
      the congregation of people into groups, especially men. Males are easily
      identified as the premiere threat against the ruling order. Indeed, it is males
      who form rebellions against regimes, not women. Therefore, the highest priority
      is to monitor and destroy all-male groups and institutions. Even the smallest
      gathering of males can be the flash point triggering other groups into an
      uprising. Hence, the gathering of any male group, no matter how small, must be
      closely monitored and disbanded at any sign of threat to the ruling class.

      Females are not regarded as being a threat against the international
      financiers. They are actually useful for distracting males from cohesiveness.
      Based on this premise, assemblies are made more docile, safer, and predictable.
      Effectively, male organizations are rendered impotent. Wherever females are
      included amongst the ranks of men, the purpose soon focuses on the inward
      desires of women. Certainly, this has already happened to every traditional
      male organization. It is a result of Jewish-influenced legal doctrine. The
      extent of this perversion has even overwhelmed the American military where
      standards have been sacrificed to include women in the fighting ranks of
      warfare.[13] There is no greater demoralizing factor in warfare than a nation's
      women subjected to brutal rape at alien hands.

      Women, having gained positions in the clergy, wittingly (or unwittingly) carry
      out the feminist doctrine. The growing number of Lesbians (and gay) pastors
      reveals that egalitarianism and social-constructionism have been accepted into
      ecclesiastical canon. Mainstream Christianity has become feminized to the point
      where Christianity has been destabilized. Indeed, the priesthood does not
      adhere to its own Scriptures.

      Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.

      But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be
      in quietness.

      For Adam was first formed, then Eve;

      and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into
      transgression:

      but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and
      love and sanctification with sobriety."
      • patience jew-produced feminism leads to crime rise among wo 16.02.04, 09:45
        Subject: jew-produced feminism leads to crime rise among women

        10-29-03

        Why

        See here an article about American women committing more crime these days:
        www.azstarnet.com/star/tue/31028nFBI-crimereport.html .

        But that's not the thrust of this e-mail. The thrust comes with a quote found
        within the article:

        "Kenneth Land, a professor of sociology at Duke University, attributed the rise
        in female arrests to societal changes over the past 30 years in which more
        women have entered the work force and generally have achieved a status on a par
        with men." [endquote].

        Call us crazy, call us batty, but we interpret that comment to mean that women
        are committing more crime due to feminism. Feminism created the idea
        that 'women are equal to men.' [If you think that we are wrong about that,
        please tell us which other American social movement created the 'women are
        equal' idea].

        Now, who created the feminist movement in America and the West? One race: Jews.

        What? You doubt us? See for yourselves:

        ---------

        Jewish feminist leaders

        -Gloria Steinem (1934- ); founder, Ms. Magazine.

        -Bella Abzug (1920-1998); Civil rights and labor attorney elected to Congress
        (House of Rep.) from New York City; served 1971-1977.

        -Betty Friedan (1921- ); feminist leader and author of the book "The Feminine
        Mystique" (1963).

        -Shulamith Firestone (1945- ); Canadian feminist. Wrote "The Dialectic of Sex"
        (1970).

        -Andrea Dworkin (1946- ); radical; apparent lesbian. Author of the
        book "Intercourse" (1987).

        -Susan Brownmiller (1935- ); U.S. feminist. Wrote the book "Against Our Will"
        (1975).

        -Susan Faludi (1959- ); author of the book "Backlash" (1992).

        -Naomi Wolf (1962- ); advisor to Al Gore in the 2000 U.S. presidential election.

        -Emma Goldman (1869-1940); early U.S. feminist.

        -Ernestine Rose (1810-1892); b. in Poland; early feminist.

        -Phyllis Chesler (1941- ); U.S. feminist; author of the book "Woman's
        Inhumanity to Woman" (2002).

        -Judy Chicago (Cohen) (1939- ); U.S. feminist. Author of the book "The Dinner
        Party" (1996).

        -Robin Morgan (1941- ); U.S. feminist. Former editor-in-chief, Ms. magazine.

        -Letty Cottin Pogrebin (1939- ); U.S. feminist; co-founded Ms. magazine.

        -Gerda Lerner (1920- ); b. in Austria.

        -Annie Nathan Meyer (1867-1951); U.S. feminist.

        -Maud Nathan (1862-1946); sister of Annie Nathan Meyer; U.S. feminist.

        -Geri Palast (1950- ); chair, Committee on Women in the Global Economy; U.S.
        feminist.

        -Rose Schneiderman (1882-1972); b. in Poland.

        -Anita Pollitzer (1894-1975); U.S. feminist; pal of artist Georgia O'Keeffe. -
        Gene Boyer (no birthyear available); a founder of N.O.W.; president of Jewish
        Feminists; U.S. feminist.

        -Lucy Komisar (1942- ); author of the book "The New Feminism" (1971); U.S.
        feminist.

        -Karen Nussbaum (1950- ); (apparently Jewish); leader of 9to5-National
        Association of Working Women.

        -Eleanor Flexner (1908-1995); (apparently Jewish--relative is a Zionist); U.S.
        feminist.

        -Riane Eisler (1931- ); b. Vienna; author/feminist; (apparently Jewish--fled
        Nazis). Author of the book "The Chalice and the Blade" (1987).


        www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/lettersOct-Nov03/102903letters.htm
    • patience The Only Solution is Revolution 16.02.04, 10:27
      The Only Solution is Revolution

      I'm Proud to be an American/ Where at least I think I'm free

      And I won't forget those Oil Men/ Who sold that lie to me

      I'm Proud to be an American/ Where I wish I could be free

      And I won't forget those men who died/ For Zionist hypocrisy

      I'm Proud to be an American/ The land of lunacy

      And I won't forget those Rapturists/ Who told their lies to me

      And I stand up...

      And toss these Pigs into the sea

      And laugh at their ghastly fate/ While I liberate my country.



      This page contains links to hundreds of groups, organizations, movements,
      publications, alternative media and other sites devoted to such issues as anti-
      statism, class war, international resistance to global capital, minority
      rights, civil liberties, armed struggle, survivalism, anti-Zionism, opposition
      to schools, cops and prisons and other matters that ARV is concerned with.
      Obviously, we do not agree with every position taken by everyone that we link
      to. Our philosophy is to take what we can use and discard the rest. We favor
      cross-ideological, cross-cultural, transnational alliances against our common
      enemies. Enjoy!


      www.attackthesystem.com/links.html
      • patience Why is hatred of Jews the new call of the Left? 16.02.04, 11:09
        Leftist Anti-Semitism--Why is hatred of Jews the new call of the Left?

        209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/985508/posts

        -
        www.freenorthkorea.net
    • patience The Project for the New American Century 16.02.04, 11:14
      The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational
      organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American
      leadership is good both for America and for the world; that such leadership
      requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral
      principle; and that too few political leaders today are making the case for
      global leadership.

      The Project for the New American Century intends, through issue briefs,
      research papers, advocacy journalism, conferences, and seminars, to explain
      what American world leadership entails. It will also strive to rally support
      for a vigorous and principled policy of American international involvement and
      to stimulate useful public debate on foreign and defense policy and America's
      role in the world.


      www.newamericancentury.org/
      • patience The Virtues of the Feminine 27.02.04, 12:02
        Men need to distinguish between women who are feminine and those who are
        inverted.

        A feminine woman is receptive to men. She exudes cheerfulness and inviting
        warmth. A man can make a friendly remark and be well received.

        An inverted woman, on the other hand, is fearful and defiant in the presence of
        men. She has been taught that man is a competitor, or worse, a predator.

        These women are out of touch with their nature and you can tell. Woman's
        essential nature is to be an incubator of love. Her natural role is to create
        an environment in which living beings thrive. Her destiny is to love a man, and
        through him her children. Her reward is their love and happiness.

        Sexual intercourse and childbirth are manifestations of a spiritual
        relationship. A man must first plant his spirit in a woman's heart and find a
        warm reception. That spirit takes root and love grows into a sapling, and then
        a towering oak. Finally, a child is the expression of this unseen reality.

        What are the elements of this male-female dynamic?

        The male must present a woman with a spirit that she can embrace. Men generally
        use money or power to appeal to women. However, a man is much more than a
        provider or doer. He is an agent of God. Every man has a divine mission and
        purpose on earth. This mission imbues him with a confident masculinity, which
        appeals to a woman's higher instincts.


        Do women lose their identity in this process? Yes. Partly. Psychiatrist Marie
        Robinson calls this their "essential altruism." Women were designed to find
        identity and self-fulfillment in their husband and family. This is positive.
        Ultimately, women do not get satisfaction in worldly achievement. They find
        fulfillment from giving and receiving love. They are creatures of love, God's
        creatures.


        The essence of womanhood is the maternal. A woman nurtures and makes things
        grow. She gives her husband and children unconditional love. Similarly, the
        essence of manhood is the paternal. A husband gives direction, purpose and
        security to his wife and family. Everything leading up to marriage is
        preparation for these complementary roles.


        Marriage is a mystical union. Man and woman become one. The sword in its
        sheath; the record in its sleeve. This union in love is the wholeness we all
        seek. It is a prerequisite for happiness and personal development. Otherwise,
        we are stalled, i.e. obsessed with sex. In order for union to take place, a
        woman must identify her self-interest with her husband's. She becomes part of
        him. He becomes part of her. Their happiness is one.
        ...
        In practical terms, what does this mean for men? 1) "A man makes the house, the
        woman makes the home." A man must get his personal and professional act
        together. 2) He must love the woman who loves him. Otherwise he should leave
        her alone. 3) Men should not waste too much time on inverted women, i.e.
        feminists. (A friend said marrying a feminist is like a Jew marrying an Anti-
        Semite.)

        A strong man might help a feminist rediscover her femininity. (See the movie
        The Bostonians, for an example.) But you're dealing with milk that has curdled.
        Better to find a woman who is naturally feminine and naturally receptive. This
        requires many contacts; the Internet is perfect for this. Don't waste time
        trying to make a shoe fit just because you're starved for love.



        By Henry Makow Ph.D.
        savethemales.ca/040602.html
    • Gość: n0str0m0 gott sejf ze kuin IP: 61.149.95.* 27.02.04, 12:21
      You've tried to get into Bujold, and haven't been able to?! I'm sorry for
      you, really. They aren't all that super-deep, but are VERY enjoyable (at least,
      have been for me!). Can I ask which ones you tried to read? I can definitely see
      where if you didn't start at the beginning, they might not be quite as
      interesting....and if you're not even at ALL interested in romantic sub-plots, that
      might also be a point against her stuff (she recently won a Sapphire award for her
      latest Vorkosigan book, which is awarded to the best romance/SF crossover).

      I'm enjoying White as Snow by Tanith Lee so far, but I don't think I've read
      anything else of hers (or if I do, I don't remember, and it was probably a short
      story or two in an anthology). I haven't really been able to get into Elizabeth
      Moon, either, but I don't think I've tried Remnant Population; I'll have to check
      that out.

      Another great mixer of SF and romance (and another Sapphire winner) who manages to
      not totally offend my feminist sensibilites is Sharon Shinn; I really like the
      Jehovah series. Again, though, stay away if you don't appreciate a good romance! smile
    • Gość: n0str0m0 etsetra etsetra etsetra IP: 61.149.95.* 27.02.04, 12:24
      There is a very serious inherent contradiction in your statements
      above. First you talk about preferring limits on government. Well,
      NOW wants government *not* to have a voice in decisions about
      abortion, they want the decision to remain with the woman who is
      considering having one (which IMHO is the only sane place for this
      decision to rest).

      Next you talk about "championing and individual's right to oppose
      abortion". If you oppose it, don't have one. The conservative idea
      about abortion has nothing to do with championing individual rights,
      it has everything to do with wanting the state taking away a
      woman's right to control her own body. How such an attitude have
      *anything* to do with giving rights to the individual. No one is
      forced to have an abortion. You want to force women not to have
      them.

      Like most other conservatives, you talk about giving people rights,
      but that's only the rights you deem appropriate, there's just as
      much taking away rights. Conservatives oppose the right for a
      woman to decide whether or not to have an abortion, the right to
      have free access to birth control (Ashcroft opposes that right also),
      & the right to be judged on your merits and not on your race
      (Ashcroft fails big on that particular issue).

      Conservatives are not for individual rights, except perhaps the rights
      of conservatives to force others to conform to their wishes. In
      contrast, liberals wish people to have a choice in how they behave.
      Liberals generally propose solutions that increase freedom for
      everyone. Conservatives are the ones who talk about more laws
      limiting individual freedom, rather hypocritical for a group who
      claims to be against "big government". Other than passing laws
      that allow the right to keep more of their money, I don't see
      conservatives increasing either rights or freedom for any group.
      • patience Umiesz przeczytac co skopiowales? :))) /nt 27.02.04, 12:27

        • Gość: n0str0m0 a to trzeba? ze zrozumieniem? ojej.../nt IP: 61.149.95.* 27.02.04, 12:36
          • patience Ok. Masz u mnie dyspense na nierozumienie:) /nt 27.02.04, 12:43

        • jenisiej Ech, widzę, że nie uniknę przerobienia tego wątku 27.02.04, 12:45
          Ale to później.

          Buźka, królowo!
          • patience Re: Ech, widzę, że nie uniknę przerobienia tego w 27.02.04, 12:48
            Buźka, królusmile
    • Gość: n0str0m0 ze trus uyl set ju fri IP: 61.149.95.* 27.02.04, 12:28
      You say this like it is in some way obvious. It's not. Some people
      feel that way, others don't. Some faiths feel that way, other's don't.
      Your saying this is true does not make it true, me saying it is false
      doesn't make it false. It is purely and simply a matter of opinion.
      As such perhaps the best place for the decision about such
      matters to lie is with individuals.

      Or, to look at in, another fashion, neither the law nor science can
      judge the truth or falsehood of this question. Whether or not a tiny
      blob of cells is a human or merely a potential human is nothing
      more or less than a spiritual & theological question. One of the
      inherent principles of our system of government is the separation of
      Church and state. Since this issue is solely a religious question, it
      should be left to individuals and individual faiths to work out.

      Excommunicating someone for having an abortion is within the
      purview of the Catholic Church. I don't approve of that action, but
      I'm not Catholic and have no right to decide this matter. OTOH,
      any church that attempts to turn their own doctrine on this issue
      into law is attempting to violate the separation of church and state.
      That I will oppose quite strongly. Theological questions should
      never become legal ones.

      Many conservatives attempt to break down this separation, by
      supporting religiously based restrictions on abortion and issues like
      mandatory school prayer (an exceedingly obvious violation of the
      separation of church and state). I have no wish to live in a
      theocracy. The founders of our nation had no wish for it to become
      a theocracy. Many conservatives are (in practice) attempting to
      turn the United Sates into a theocracy, and so I strongly oppose
      them.
    • Gość: n0str0m0 beter sejf zen sori IP: 61.149.95.* 27.02.04, 12:31
      John's tone has been very sharp during this debate, and I've winced a couple
      of times over some of his remarks (as I have over some defensive and angry
      remarks made on the other side of the debate). I hesitate to characterize
      anyone's views with as much certainty as John and Cindy have done. There's
      too much none of us know about each other and why we feel and think the way
      we do, for me to be willing to take such strong positions based on a few
      phosphors on a screen written in haste and the heat of the moment.

      However, I agree wholeheartedly with John on this one. Flying the
      Confederate flag over public buildings is at best incredibly insensitive to
      African Americans, whose forebears were murdered, tortured, treated as
      property, and denied their basic humanity for generations, under that flag.
      Slavery only stopped when the Confederate flag came down. However much the
      current conservatives want to separate the Civil War from slavery, for the
      blacks whose ancestors were only freed when that war was won by the North,
      that connection cannot ever be severed.

      Pride in one's state and town of birth are natural. (I lived in east Texas
      for years, and loved the people and the culture, even while I had grave
      problems with the political and religious views that many people held. It's
      a state full of friendly and generous individuals.) But can you not see,
      Cindy, how making such a gesture of (white) Southern pride as flying the
      Confederate flag over public buildings, while knowing full well the feelings
      of humiliation and horror that evokes in the many African American citizens
      of those states, might be called racist? Insisting on flying the
      Confederate flag under such circumstances disowns the depth of evil that
      enslaving another human entails.

      A tangential but relevant question: who here has seen "Finding Forrester?"
      It's a moving and powerful movie about a young black man with a hidden gift.
      Among other things, the movie beautifully demonstrates just how modern-day
      prejudice (and other societal forces) work to keep African Americans (and
      other minorities) from realizing their true potential in our culture.
      • gini Re: Vive la liberte!!! 27.02.04, 12:53
        L'humoriste Dieudonné porte plainte après les incidents de Lyon

        agrandir la photo

        LYON (Reuters) - L'humoriste Dieudonné, dont un sketch hostile à la politique
        israélienne suscite la polémique, a porté plainte pour "violence et voies de
        fait" après les incidents qui ont perturbé son spectacle jeudi soir à Lyon.


        "Nous dénonçons le climat de haine et de violence qui entoure le spectacle et
        incite les extrémistes à commettre des actes de violence", a déclaré vendredi à
        Reuters son avocat, Me François Roux.


        Une plainte a également été déposée par l'un des spectateurs incommodés par le
        jet d'une substance lacrymogène dans la salle de la Bourse du travail.


        Soupçonnée d'avoir lancé ce projectile, une personne interpellée jeudi soir
        était toujours en garde à vue vendredi.


        A l'entrée de la salle, quelque 150 personnes, appartenant notamment à l'Union
        des étudiants juifs de France (UEJF), avaient crié "Dieudo facho" et brandi des
        pancartes où l'on pouvait lire "Heil Dieudonné !".


        Certains manifestants, qui avaient pu pénétrer dans la salle, ont ensuite
        perturbé le spectacle en invectivant l'humoriste et en jetant la bombe fumigène.


        Lundi, faisant valoir "des risques de troubles à l'ordre public", la mairie de
        Lyon avait annulé le spectacle, sujet à polémique depuis son sketch "Le rabbin
        nazi". Le tribunal administratif de Lyon, saisi par l'humoriste, avait suspendu
        cette décision mercredi soir et autorisé le spectacle.


        L'avocat de Dieudonné avait précisé à cette occasion que toutes les
        interdictions émanant des municipalités feraient désormais l'objet d'un recours
        judiciaire.
        • Gość: n0str0m0 wu komprene s'ke wuzekriwe? sinon, kase wu disi :) IP: 61.149.95.* 27.02.04, 13:18
          Hitler entläßtReichsbankpräsident Hjalmar Schacht, der die Finanzierung der Hochrüstung in einem
          Memorandum scharf kritisiert, und ersetzt ihn durch seinen Finanzberater Walter Funk.
          Ausgehend von Machtkämpfen zwischen dem tschechoslowakischen Ministerpräsidenten Hácha und
          dem slowakischen Ministerpräsidenten Tiso, ermuntert Hitler diesen, die Unabhängigkeit der Slowakei
          auszurufen. Der überrumpelte Hácha reist am 15.3. nach Berlin und wird dort (nach zunächst
          freundlichem Empfang) hinter verschlossenen Türen derart unter Druck gesetzt, daß er nach einer
          Herzattacke die Preisgabe Tschechiens als "alte deutsche Reichslande Böhmen und Mähren" an die
          "Protektoratsmacht Deutschland" unterzeichnet und der tschechoslowakischen Armee Widerstand
          verbietet. Die Deutsche Wehrmacht marschiert noch am gleichen Tag unter heftigem Protest der
          Bevölkerung in Prag ein (und Ungarn holt sich schnell noch von der Slowakei die "Karpato-Ukraine").
          Am 22.3. annektiert Hitler das Memelgebiet von dem unter einem "Tschechien-Syndrom" stehenden
          Litauen und gliedert es nach Einmarsch der Wehrmacht am 23.3. in Ostpreußen ein.
          Mit Garantieerklärungen und Protestnoten beantworten die führenden Westmächte die
          Expansionspolitik Hitlers (s.o.).
          Am 20.4. wird der 50. Geburtstag des Führers als nationaler Feiertag mit einer großen Truppenparade
          gefeiert. Die ausländischen Militärattachés schauen besorgt zu.
          Am 22.5. wird zwischen Deutschland und Italien der als Stahlpakt bezeichnete militärische
          Beistandspakt unterzeichnet. Bei Kriegsbeginn erklärt sich Mussolini allerdings als "noch nicht
          ausreichend gerüstet".
          Als Rußland zum nicht uneigennützigen Stillhalten bereit ist (s.o.), befiehlt der Oberste Feldherr Adolf
          Hitler den Angriff auf Polen und erklärt am 1.9. im Reichstag, daß "ab 4:45 Uhr zurückgeschossen"
          werde. Der erste Blitzkrieg ist im Gange (s.o.). Maßgeblichen Anteil am Erfolg haben die hochmodernen
          schnellen und leichten Panzer, die taktische Kombination aus Panzern und Panzergrenadieren und die
          Luftüberlegenheit, die im wesentlichen durch Sturzkampfbomber vom Typ Junkers Ju 87 (StuKa) erlangt
          wird.
          Nachdem England und Frankreich ihre Kriegserklärungen an Deutschland am 3.9. abgegeben haben,
          passiert (außer Selbstversenkung der vor Montevideo festgenagelten "Graf Spee" und anderer "kleinerer
          Vorkommnisse" wie erster Erfolge deutscher U-Boote gegen englische Schiffs-Veteranen aus dem 1.
          Weltkrieg) merkwürdigerweise über 6 Monate lang nichts (von den Engländern später als "The Phoney
          War" apostrophiert). Hitler kann sich auf die Westfront ausreichend vorbereiten, nachdem ein
          Friedensappell seinerseits von England und Frankreich zurückgewiesen wurde.
          Der okkupierte Teil Polens wird als Generalgouvernement Deutschlands behandelt und unter die
          Aufsicht des Hitler direkt unterstellten Hans Frank gestellt.
          Am 1.9. ordnet Hitler die Euthanasie (Vernichtung unwerten Lebens) an.
          Am 8.11. entgeht der "Führer" nur knapp einem Attentat im Keller des Münchener Hofbräuhauses (am
          Vorabend der traditionellen Gedenkfeier an den Marsch auf die Feldherrnhalle am 9.11.1923).
          Deutschland meldet knapp 700´000 gefangene Polen, die großteils zum Arbeitseinsatz ins Kernland
          deportiert werden.
          Adolf Eichmann wird vom Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler mit der Aufgabe der Deportation von Juden
          und Polen aus dem besetzten Land betraut.
          • patience Dedykacja dla Gini i Nostromo. 27.02.04, 14:39
            Teraz lepiej?

            webnews.textalk.com/view.phtml?id=1366
            • Gość: n0str0m0 "To miejsce, fo którego należysz." IP: 61.149.95.* 27.02.04, 14:57
              a ja by chcialem dedykacje bezbledna...

              no i n0str0m0 albo nostromo
              innej formy nie zatwierdzono
              od lat

              trejdmark, ju sawwi?

              szud it not bi for auer interest - noubadi uut pay any atenszon tu it
              so sej senkju, ju angrejtful pejszacizno

              truli jors

              nostromo
              • patience Re: "To miejsce, fo którego należysz." 27.02.04, 15:00
                ok. przepraszam i poprawiam.
    • patience ANTI FEMINIST PRO MEN PAGEs 27.02.04, 15:32
      www.freewebs.com/antifeminist/
      PROTECT YOURSELF FROM PATERNITY FRAUD.KNOW IF A BABY IS REALLY YOURS

      ONE OF THE BEST ANTI FEMINIST SITES: ANGRYHARRY.COM

      ANOTHER EXCELLENT SITE : THE CHAUVINISTS CORNER( UNABASHEDLY FRANK)

      A FURIOUS ANTI FEMINIST : KIRBYINWOOD.COMgives feminists a taste of their own
      medicine, this site uses the same tactics used by feminists

      INTERNATIONAL MENS NETWORK

      MENS NEWS DAILY news for men particularly on gender issues that affect men

      NCFM national coalition of free men

      BLACK MENS ANTI FEMINIST SITE...BLACKTOWN.NET..(NO POLITICAL CORRECTNESS
      ALLOWED!!).DEVOTED TO GIVING BLACK MEN THE CREDIT THEY DESERVE!...AND TO
      PROVE HOW WOMEN'S LIBERATION WITCHCRAFT DESTROYED BLACK MEN,AND THE BLACK
      FAMILY!!

      HISSIDE GENDER ISSUES FROM THE MALE PERSPECTIVE

      BOYCOTT misandry(hatred against men)

      MARRIED MENS MILITIAwhere you learn to fight back .....offers a lot of
      practical advice

      VISIBILITY FOR MEN UNITING MEN

      Masculinism™ TOOLS TO COMBAT FEMINISM,Anti-feminism and masculinism,CONCEPTS.

      ANTI FEMINIST HEAD QUARTERS

      ANTI FEMINIST COUNTER REVOLUTION

      GALLERY OF FEMINIST HATRED AGAINST MEN EXPOSED A MUST READ FOR EVERY MALE

      NEW ZEALAND EQUALITY EDUCATION FOUNDATIONMEN WHO HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF FEMINISM

      AMERICAN UNION OF MEN

      MILLION DADS MARCH PLEASE DO JOIN THIS MARCH ITS A GOOD OPPURTUNITY FOR MEN TO
      GET JUSTICE FOR THEIR KIDS

      FATHERS FOR LIFE

      GLAD TO BE A GUY

      MISANDRY.COMA growing collection of information and links relating to misandry

      ANTI FEMINIST LITERATURE

      UK MENS MOVEMENT

      FRENCH ANTIFEMINIST MENS SITE

      THE MENS MEDIA NETWORK

      A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT KIND OF SITE FOR MALES......I WOULD SAY THE FABULOUS
      SITE IS SHEER GENIUS

      NEW ANTI FEMINIST SITE

      AUSTRALIAN MENS RIGHTS AGENCY

      Tasmanian Men's Rights Pro-Male, feminist free Zone.

      ISRAELI ANTI FEMINIST MENS SITE

      DESERTLIGHT



      MFNBC.COM Masculists Factfinding Network and Broadcast Channel

      dadi a pro fathers site

      FATHERMAG

      DOMAIN OF PATRIARCHY

      MANORAMA devastatingly antifeminist

      THE VOTE MALE PAGE urges men to vote male and not for feminists

      THE MMRC A STINGING RETALIATION TO FEMINAZIS

      MESA JUSTICE FOR MEN

      ANTIFEMINIST DISCUSSION GROUP(for ANTIFEMINISTS ONLY. Feminists or anyone
      sympathetic to feminism will be deleted.)

      SHATTERED MEN A CHRISTIAN MENS SITE

      FEMINISM IS WRONG arguments against feminism

      The Masculist Trinity

      MENS RIGHTS

      SILENCED MAJORITY A SITE BY MY BUDDY Darren (Anti-feminist warrior)

      STIFFS helping build a better world without vicious and deranged feminists

      SAVE THE MALES a pro men page

      KENTUCKY PRO VOCAL ANTI FEMINIST SITE a very good site with useful information

      FED UP WITH FEMINISM a site by a lady anti feminist

      The Bury Men's Group

      SEX-PLOYTATION a look at how some women use sex to exploit and oppress men

      IF MEN HAVE ALL THE POWER HOW DO WOMEN MAKE ALL THE RULES an interesting
      book

      PLEASE DO READ THE ANTI FEMINIST AND MENS BOOKS AT ANGRY HARRY AND THE
      CHAUVINISTS CORNER



      PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT ANY OTHER ANTI FEMINIST LINKS THAT I CAN PUT UP ON THIS
      PAGE AT : antifeminist@rediffmail.com

      NOTE: FEMINIST HATE MAIL CAN EXPECT RETALIATION
    • Gość: Krzys52 Re: SAVEtheMALES.ca IP: *.proxy.aol.com 27.02.04, 15:49
      Gdzie Ty wynalazlas te kretynizmy. Toz to zupelnie jakby napisane przez
      ktoregos z naszych zakompleksionych kolegow forumowych - dzielnego
      prawicowca surprised))
      • patience Re: SAVEtheMALES.ca 27.02.04, 15:51
        Gość portalu: Krzys52 napisał(a):

        > Gdzie Ty wynalazlas te kretynizmy. Toz to zupelnie jakby napisane przez
        > ktoregos z naszych zakompleksionych kolegow forumowych - dzielnego
        > prawicowca surprised))



        NO!!! PRAWDZIWA BOMBA!!! Znalazlam nawet Lige Meskich Szowinistow Do Walki z
        XIX Poprawka, Wlasnie tlumacze ich STATEMENT.
    • maniekxxx Re: SAVEtheMALES.ca 27.02.04, 16:07
      czlowiek ktory posiada ta strone -jest Zydem, a jego
      problemy zaczely sie w momencie kiedy rozwodzil sie z
      zona- praktycznie odebrano mu prawa do jego dzieci,
      dopiero przejrzal na oczy czym jest socjial-demokracjia.Za
      swoja postawe anty-feministyczna na Univerysyty Toronto -
      zmuszony zostal do odejscia z tego Univerystetu-gdzie
      pracowal jako profesor jezyka angielskiego lub historii ,
      dokladnie niepamietam.Dzisiaj zyje w WINIPEG-MANITOBA.
      • patience A ta reszta oszolomow? 27.02.04, 16:11
        Zajrzyj na linka (post drukowanymi literami). Moze cos ci znajomo zadzwoni?
        • maniekxxx Re: A ta reszta oszolomow? 27.02.04, 16:23
          JUZ ci odpowiadam-dzisiaj rano widzialem parokrotnie
          informacjie w TV na temat planowanego socjializmu w Brazyli-
          wiedz wiec ze w ostatnich 3 miesiacach ostatniego
          roku zanotowano najwiekszy spadek przyrostu ekonomicznego od
          20 lat.Jezeli Brazylijczycy chca socjializmu- to dlaczego
          niepozwolic im potem spokojnie umierac z glodu w
          tym -nieudanym systemie-bez twarzy.Tak samo z Korea Polnocna-
          niech ich Chiny karmia lub Fidel-skoro tak wszyscy
          narzekaja na ten wstretny kapitalizm-niech sie komuchy
          sami karmia- a LUNA z Brazyli to b.bliski koles
          ideowy -H.Chawez z Wenezueli-niech wiec wprowadzaja swoj
          dobrobyt-ale niech potem nieprosza tamci ludzie o papu
          z zachodnich krajow.
          • patience Re: A ta reszta oszolomow? 27.02.04, 16:35
            No nie wiem. Moim zdaniem gdyby nie Lula to tam dopiero bylaby rewolucja. On
            przynajmniej próbuje sie dogadywac z wiezycielami. Pytanie tez czy wina leży
            wylacznie po stronie dłużników. To i w Polsce widac co dzieje się, jesli
            kapitalem wzmacnia sie struktury kronistyczne, bo tak latwiej, zamiast
            inwestowac takze w spoleczenstwo obywatelskie. O korei Polnocnej to juz nawet
            nic nie skomentuje. Tam sa obozy zaglady, wiesz?
            • patience Re: A ta reszta oszolomow? Errata 27.02.04, 16:36
              'wierzyciel' nie pisze sie przez z. Przepraszam

              > No nie wiem. Moim zdaniem gdyby nie Lula to tam dopiero bylaby rewolucja. On
              > przynajmniej próbuje sie dogadywac z wiezycielami. Pytanie tez czy wina leży
              > wylacznie po stronie dłużników. To i w Polsce widac co dzieje się, jesli
              > kapitalem wzmacnia sie struktury kronistyczne, bo tak latwiej, zamiast
              > inwestowac takze w spoleczenstwo obywatelskie. O korei Polnocnej to juz nawet
              > nic nie skomentuje. Tam sa obozy zaglady, wiesz?
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