Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ?

17.09.04, 08:30
U nas media niewiele na ten temat mowia a jestem ciekaw jak idzie pomoc w
Sudanie? Bo przeciez nie czekaja na to co zrobia Amerykanie tylko NA PEWNO
zapobiegaja mordowaniu ludzi.
Wiecie cos? Podzielcie sie.
    • jutka1 Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 17.09.04, 08:41
      ossssoooooooochodzi?
      • ertes Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 17.09.04, 08:45
        No jak Bush ma zamilknac to widac inni chca mowic.
        Daje im okazje.
        • jutka1 Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 17.09.04, 08:48
          aaaaaa
          no, moje poglady znasz, wiec nie bede sie rozpisywac.... ide do wanny ;-)))))))

          cmok. Pitunia. :-)
          • ertes Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 17.09.04, 08:51
            A ja ide spac poki jeszcze czwartek.
    • luiza-w-ogrodzie Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 17.09.04, 10:25
      ertes napisał:

      > U nas media niewiele na ten temat mowia a jestem ciekaw jak idzie pomoc w
      > Sudanie? Bo przeciez nie czekaja na to co zrobia Amerykanie tylko NA PEWNO
      > zapobiegaja mordowaniu ludzi.
      > Wiecie cos? Podzielcie sie.

      Weekend sie zaczal! Ertes, no need to be sarcastic ;oD
    • maria421 Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 18.09.04, 09:38
      Ertesie, o tym juz niedawno bylo, a Ty znowu z tej samej beczki.

      Posylam link do oficjalnego oswiadczenia niemieckiego MSZ w sprawie Sudanu

      www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/de/ausgabe_archiv?archiv_id=6086
      Fischer byl w Sudanie w polowie lipca tego roku.

      Tylko sie Ertesie nie domagaj zeby Niemcy i Francja interweniowaly na wlasna
      reke militarnie, bo wiesz ze to niemozliwe.
      • starypierdola Sorry, Ertes juz poszedl do lozka (a nie luzka!). 18.09.04, 09:41
      • don2 Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 18.09.04, 13:02
        maria421 napisała:

        > Ertesie, o tym juz niedawno bylo, a Ty znowu z tej samej beczki.
        >
        > Posylam link do oficjalnego oswiadczenia niemieckiego MSZ w sprawie Sudanu
        >
        > www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/de/ausgabe_archiv?archiv_id=6086
        > Fischer byl w Sudanie w polowie lipca tego roku.
        >
        > Tylko sie Ertesie nie domagaj zeby Niemcy i Francja interweniowaly na wlasna
        > reke militarnie, bo wiesz ze to niemozliwe.
        • lucja7 Don Don Don, 18.09.04, 13:07
          Bardzo mi sie podoba to co napisales. Dowod ze te wszystkie zony naprawde
          nauczyly cie duzo i sadze ze dobrze o tym wiesz.
          Caluje serdecznie naszego swiadka.

          lucja :))
    • aksiegowy Europejska "pomoc" 19.09.04, 14:12
      a konkretnie Niemiecka:
      Pozwole sobie wplesc moj kometarz do tej preswitnej deklaracji "przestanta sie
      wyzynac bo napiszemy jeszcze jedna deklaracje"
      www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/archiv_print?archiv_id=6091
      Press releases
      Federal Foreign Minister Fischer on the situation in Darfur/Sudan
      "The Federal Government remains deeply concerned [ale nie robiacy nic
      konkretnego poza napisaniem tego oswiadczenie] about the ongoing dramatic
      [bardzo ladne okreslenie blood shed] situation in Darfur. In view of the
      incessant reports of militia attacks in Darfur and the most serious violations
      of human rights [czytaj rzez], we have no grounds to withdraw our warnings
      [stateczne kiwanie palcem].

      The report by the Secretary-General of the United Nations, Kofi Annan,
      emphasizes that although progress has been made on several points in recent
      weeks, the Sudanese Government has not heeded significant demands from the
      international community [no bo niby i czemu, co ta komunity ostanio zrobila by
      skonczy z rzezia]. To date Khartoum has taken no decisive steps to punish the
      Jangaweed leaders responsible for the atrocities [daa]. Furthermore, the vast
      majority of the militias have not been disarmed [aboslutely]. Evidently the
      militias and the regular armed forces are still cooperating with each other [a
      dlaczego by mieli przestac przeciz nikt im nie przeszkadza. internetu tam nie
      ma i nikt nie czyta takich zatroskanych wypowiedzi]. In view of this situation,
      the international community cannot now afford to reduce the pressure [bedzie
      wiecej listow i stanowisk] it is exerting. The Sudanese Government must meet
      all the demands contained in Resolution 1556 [albo wydamy rezolucje 1557]. The
      Federal Government supports the African Union's plan to extend its observation
      mission [nawet z uzyciem stelit]and shall strive to obtain firm support for
      this goal within the EU [czyzby jeszcze go nie mial]. In addition, we shall
      press [bedzie wiecej listow] for the rigorous identification and prosecution of
      those responsible for these most serious violations of human rights. The
      Federal Government remains firmly convinced that the Darfur conflict can only
      be resolved politically [inczej musialby roszyc 4 litery i zrobic cos
      konkretnego]. For this reason we expressly welcome the peace talks taking place
      in Abuja, Nigeria, under the patronage of the African Union [wy tam gadu gadu a
      ludzie gina w tysiacach ]. All negotiating parties, both the Government and the
      rebels, are called upon to fulfil their responsibility and work towards a
      political solution in the interests of the suffering population."

      published: Friday 03.09.04

      Czekam z niecierpliwoscia na link z Francuskim grozeniem palcem.
      O ile latwij krytykuje sie Ameryke za mieszanie sie niz sie samemu cos robi.
      Europa gadu gadu, zerka na Ameryke czy ta nie potrzsnie kiesa i szbelka by cos
      w koncu zrobic a Sudanczycy gina tysiacami.

      AK
      • don2 Re: Europejska "pomoc" 19.09.04, 14:50
        AK. przeczytalem twoj komentarz do tego co kopiowales.I mam pytanie:ile ty masz
        lat?
        • aksiegowy Re: Europejska "pomoc" 19.09.04, 15:13
          9
        • aksiegowy Re: Europejska "pomoc" 19.09.04, 15:19
          czasami trzeba mi tlumaczyc jak 7 latkowi i tylko wtedy do mnie dociera
          Ale to trudnejsze niz tlumaczenie doroslemu i chyba dlatego jakos nie moge sie
          przekonac do argumentu ze pisanie oswiadczen jest lepsze od zrobienia porzadku
          nawet sila.

          AK
          • don2 Re: Europejska "pomoc" 19.09.04, 15:40
            No to widzisz synku,czasami tak jest ,ze trzeba pisac oswiadczenia ,by sila
            miala moc prawna.Polityka wymaga czasami cierpliwosci.I widzisz synku ,jak
            dorosniesz to poczytasz powody ,dla ktorych w obecnej chwili sila nie moze
            wchodzic w gre.niestety cierpia i gina przez to ludzie.badz dobrej mysli i w
            swojej odleglej ameryce zajmij sie wyszukiwaniem dziur podatkowych,przynajmniej
            bedzie to z pozytkiem dla twojej kieszeni.
          • maria421 Do Aksiegowego 19.09.04, 15:45
            No wiec postaram sie wytlumaczyc jak 7 letniemu dziecku.
            Niemcy i Francja sa w NATO. Jest to pakt obronny, ktory zaklada mozliwosc
            uzycia sily tylko wtedy, kiedy jedno z panst czlonkowskich zostanie napadniete.
            Jak wiadomo, Sudan nie napada na zadne z panstw NATO.

            Przypominam ze wojna NATO z Serbia o Kosowo, tez wedlug wielu interpretatorow
            prawa miedzynarodowego nie miala zadnych podstaw prawnych i do dzis toczy sie
            spor o podloze prawne tej interwencji.

            Jedyna mozliwa i zgodna z prawem miedzynarodowym interwencja militarna w Sudanie
            bylaby interwencja wojsk ONZ.
            Francja, jako staly czlonek RB ONZ ma wiekszy wplyw na decyzje ewentualnego
            wyslania wojsk ONZ do Sudanu niz Niemcy. Niemniej jednak ONZ nie spieszy sie z
            podjeciem zadnej nowej rezolucji, gdyz aktualnie wojska miedzynarodowe sa
            zajete tak w Kosowie, jak i w Afganistanie, a kto wie, czy jutro nie beda
            potrzebne w Iraku.
            USA zreszta tez sobie umywaja rece, gdyz Bush podpisal jesienia 2002
            roku "Sudan Peace Act", ale wojska poslal do Iraku.

            Jezeli wiec Niemcy lub Francja poslalyby wlasne wojska do Sudanu, to
            oznaczaloby to wypowiedzenie wojny aktualnemu rezimowi w Khartumie, ktory, jak
            wiadomo jest muzulmanski. Konsejwencja takiej wojny byloby nakrecanie spirali
            terroryzmu islamskiego.


            • don2 Re: Do Aksiegowego 19.09.04, 15:59
              No i widzisz synku! Nie musiales czekac az dorosniesz.ciocia Maria ladnie
              wylozyla ci ,to co trzeba.
              A teraz wez zabawki i idz pobaw sie do swojego pokoju ,bo mamy niedziele
              i dorosli musza troche odpoczac.Loda? mozesz sobie wziasc z zamrazalnika.
              • ertes Re: Do Aksiegowego 19.09.04, 16:08
                Szkoda tylko za ta odpowiedz warta 7-latka.
      • starypierdola Re: Europejska "pomoc" 22.09.04, 14:18
        www.nytimes.com/2004/09/22/international/asia/22euro.html

        SP
        • jutka1 Re: Europejska "pomoc" 22.09.04, 14:40
          member ID i password potrzebne
          • starypierdola To do autora watku ktory wie jak sie tam dostac. 22.09.04, 14:52
            • jutka1 Re: To do autora watku ktory wie jak sie tam dost 22.09.04, 14:56
              trzeba bylo z gory napisac - do ertesa.
              oszczedzilabym sobie klikania na link.
              • starypierdola Re: To do autora watku ktory wie jak sie tam dost 24.09.04, 05:00
                Jutka,czy Ty czasem nie tlumaczylac na tym Forum kilka tygodnitemu jak sie
                dostac do NY Times??

                Czysta ciekawoisc...

                SP
          • ertes Re: Europejska "pomoc" 22.09.04, 15:55
            Prosze tu jest artykul dla tych co nie maja a sa ciekawi :)
            Jednak jaki to ma zwiazek z tytulem watku to nie bardzo rozumiem.


            KABUL, Afghanistan - Shortly before leaving on a recent patrol, French and
            German soldiers who have assumed leadership of the North Atlantic Treaty
            Organization's peacekeeping effort here gathered for a pep talk from France's
            defense minister, Michèle Alliot-Marie.

            "Your presence is proof that Europe exists and is capable of bringing its weight
            to bear on the great crises shaking our planet,'' Ms. Alliot-Marie told the
            troops gathered in the lush green garden of the French Embassy in Kabul.

            Advertisement

            An hour later, weighed down by steel-plated body armor, the soldiers were
            trudging through the dusty, sewer-scented streets on the north end of this
            capital, where few residents seemed to care about any distinctly European
            aspects of the peacekeeping mission.

            But Ms. Alliot-Marie's point was more that the European military presence in
            Afghanistan is proof to the United States that Europe exists. Or, more
            specifically, that the long-vaunted idea of a European defense - as distinct
            from NATO - is slowly taking shape.

            The French and German soldiers, members of the five-nation Eurocorps, created
            more than a decade ago as the core of what proponents say could someday become a
            European army, are the most visible part of Europe's next grand project after
            unifying its markets under a single currency: a common European foreign policy
            backed up by military might.

            Many American officials scoff at the idea as the lionlike dream of a military
            mouse, but the project has recently made significant strides: the 25-member
            European Union has created a European Defense Agency to coordinate purchasing
            and eliminate duplication among the union's militaries; it has established a
            command center to plan military campaigns; and it has begun training a staff for
            a European foreign ministry envisaged by the European Union's new constitution,
            which is awaiting ratification by union members.

            Eurocorps took over command of NATO's peacekeeping force, known as the
            International Security Assistance Force, for six months beginning in August, and
            later this year the European Union will take over peacekeeping in
            Bosnia-Herzegovina from NATO altogether. Last year, the European Union relieved
            NATO of its smaller peacekeeping role in Macedonia and carried out its first
            solo military mission with a peacekeeping operation in Congo. Ms. Alliot-Marie
            says those operations demonstrate the ways that European defense will work as
            its capabilities grow: as a part of NATO, in relief of NATO and on its own
            without NATO.

            That last option most concerns the United States, which has been eager for
            Europe to modernize its military capacity and yet is worried that a
            military-backed European political identity could someday limit Washington's
            freedom to act in the world.

            "The French government and academic world don't want to see a continuation of
            American power expressed in Europe through NATO," said a senior NATO official in
            Brussels who spoke on condition of anonymity. "Unfortunately, the French
            government views the E.U.-NATO relationship as a competitive one and wants to
            weaken NATO to build up European defense."

            While the United States has long wanted Europe to bear more of the NATO burden,
            it has worked to prevent a common European defense policy from coalescing
            outside NATO, warning that it would waste resources.

            But many Europeans believe that, without its own defense and foreign policy,
            Europe is doomed to be a nonentity. "The objective is for the E.U. to have the
            military means to have its own ideas and interests respected the world over,'' a
            senior French diplomat said. The notion of a European defense grew out of the
            reconciliation in the 1960's between France and Germany. The countries formed a
            joint brigade in 1989, which was followed in 1992 by the establishment of
            Eurocorps, an expanded force that includes troops from Spain, Belgium and
            Luxembourg. But the concept took greater force with a French-British summit
            meeting in 1998, and the recognition that an American-led NATO response to
            crises affecting Europe was no longer guaranteed.
            • ertes jest wiecej: 22.09.04, 16:43
              Europe had recently failed its first big post-cold-war test when it was unable
              to address ethnic fighting in the Balkans decisively. It took American
              leadership through NATO to snap Europe out of its diplomatic paralysis and
              intervene in the crisis.

              The United States emerged embittered at finding itself forced to share
              decision-making with an alliance that had little to add militarily. Europe, for
              its part, emerged chastised by its military impotence. The Balkan conflict
              provided the impetus for both a European Security and Defense Policy and for the
              American preference for action through fleeter, ad hoc coalitions.

              Advertisement

              "If there were another Balkan war today, I'm not sure we would have the same
              level of American involvement as before," the senior French diplomat said,
              arguing that Europe must be prepared to act on its own.

              That feeling has grown stronger as the United States reduces its military
              presence in Europe. Washington recently announced plans to cut American troops
              there, having already shrunk their numbers to about 100,000 from more than
              300,000 a little more than a decade ago.

              Britain, however, has acted as a brake on European ambitions. It is committed to
              the idea of a European defense but is loath to cross the United States or risk
              damaging the trans-Atlantic alliance. "The idea that there should be a European
              alternative equal to NATO is anathema to us," said a British official in
              Brussels. But the French argue that giving NATO the right of first refusal to
              act in a crisis makes no sense.

              "That's a very static view,'' said the senior French diplomat. "Who knows what
              the security situation will be in 15 to 20 years?''

              For now, hobbled by slim defense budgets and ill-equipped militaries among most
              of its members, the European Union's defense operations have been small. Only a
              few hundred people were involved in Macedonia, and the 2,000-troop Congo
              operation was really a French one in European guise. The new European Union
              military planning capacity counts only a few dozen people, compared with
              thousands at NATO.

              Meanwhile, each of the union's 25 members has the right to veto foreign policy
              decisions, impeding any decisive action by Europe. "Because of the E.U.'s
              military weakness and lack of political direction, they cannot hope to
              substitute for NATO," the senior NATO official said. "There's no way the E.U.
              could take on a difficult mission like Kosovo."

              Yet while Europe's defense institutions are fledgling and the missions it has
              undertaken modest, the trajectory is unmistakable. With collective defense
              spending of about $200 billion, Europe has the capacity to modernize its
              military if it acts in a coordinated way. "Just 18 months ago, European defense
              was a virtual structure, doing exercises on paper," the senior French diplomat
              said. "Now the public can see it in action and the perception is changing."

              Even before its capacity is in place, the union has begun to consider expanded
              roles for European defense, including mutual defense - an area previously
              reserved for NATO. The union's new constitution includes a mutual assistance
              clause, though it gives NATO the right of first refusal in reacting to any
              attack on one of its members.

              Europe's proposed foreign ministry will help coordinate policies among European
              Union members and should reduce the kind of open rift that developed over
              support for the American-led war in Iraq.

              While Europe may never have a clear-cut common foreign policy backed by military
              capacity, as individual countries do, the growing common interests of union
              members may well narrow the differences in their worldviews, making joint action
              increasingly possible.

              "Five or 10 years ago, European defense was 30 percent rhetoric, 30 percent
              ideology and 40 percent reality, said François Heisbourg, director of France's
              Foundation for Strategic Research. "Now, because of what is happening to NATO
              and the U.S. footprint in Europe, we're moving toward 70 percent reality."
    • aksiegowy do cioci Marii i wujka Dona 23.09.04, 17:15
      U nas w klasie jest kupa dzieciakow. Jedne duze, male, silne, slabe, bogade
      biedne, madre, glupie i kabinacje tych wszytkich cech.
      Jest tez tam taki jeden Sudan -taki bully. Gnebi innych i im zyc nie daje.
      odgraza sie ze jak mu kto bedzie chcial dokopac jek temu glupiemu Irakowi to on
      dopiero wszytkim pokaze "7 bram piekla". Irak tez byl takim bully. Ale paru
      chlopakow sie skrzyknelo i mu dolozylo tak ze siedzi teraz cicho i nawet
      zaczyna sie uczyc tych przedmiotow co ich tak nie lubil - demokracja i
      tolerancja.
      Ciociu i Wujku moje pytanie: Czy lepiej pozwolic by bully byl bully i nie
      dawal zyc innym czy tez lepiej go uziemic tak jak to zrobiono z Irakiem.
      On z tych karteczek pisanych do niego przez rade klasowa sie smieje, i nic
      sobie z tych karteczek nie robi bo wie ze to tylko karteczki.

      co najmniej 50,000 ludzi zostalo zamordowanych w Sudanie i ok 1,500,000 musialo
      uciekac z wlasnych domow.

      AK - 9 latek
      • don2 Re: do cioci Marii i wujka Dona 23.09.04, 17:20
        Zgadzam sie w zupelnosci-dzieci sa bardziej bezkompromisowe :))))
      • starypierdola Sorry, Man! 24.09.04, 05:02
        Jak Ty nie widzisz zwiazku to chyba masz bielmo na oczach.

        SP
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