ertes 17.09.04, 08:30 U nas media niewiele na ten temat mowia a jestem ciekaw jak idzie pomoc w Sudanie? Bo przeciez nie czekaja na to co zrobia Amerykanie tylko NA PEWNO zapobiegaja mordowaniu ludzi. Wiecie cos? Podzielcie sie. Odpowiedz Link czytaj wygodnie posty
ertes Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 17.09.04, 08:45 No jak Bush ma zamilknac to widac inni chca mowic. Daje im okazje. Odpowiedz Link
jutka1 Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 17.09.04, 08:48 aaaaaa no, moje poglady znasz, wiec nie bede sie rozpisywac.... ide do wanny ;-))))))) cmok. Pitunia. :-) Odpowiedz Link
ertes Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 17.09.04, 08:51 A ja ide spac poki jeszcze czwartek. Odpowiedz Link
luiza-w-ogrodzie Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 17.09.04, 10:25 ertes napisał: > U nas media niewiele na ten temat mowia a jestem ciekaw jak idzie pomoc w > Sudanie? Bo przeciez nie czekaja na to co zrobia Amerykanie tylko NA PEWNO > zapobiegaja mordowaniu ludzi. > Wiecie cos? Podzielcie sie. Weekend sie zaczal! Ertes, no need to be sarcastic ;oD Odpowiedz Link
maria421 Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 18.09.04, 09:38 Ertesie, o tym juz niedawno bylo, a Ty znowu z tej samej beczki. Posylam link do oficjalnego oswiadczenia niemieckiego MSZ w sprawie Sudanu www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/de/ausgabe_archiv?archiv_id=6086 Fischer byl w Sudanie w polowie lipca tego roku. Tylko sie Ertesie nie domagaj zeby Niemcy i Francja interweniowaly na wlasna reke militarnie, bo wiesz ze to niemozliwe. Odpowiedz Link
don2 Re: Czy Schroeder i Czirak pomagaja ? 18.09.04, 13:02 maria421 napisała: > Ertesie, o tym juz niedawno bylo, a Ty znowu z tej samej beczki. > > Posylam link do oficjalnego oswiadczenia niemieckiego MSZ w sprawie Sudanu > > www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/de/ausgabe_archiv?archiv_id=6086 > Fischer byl w Sudanie w polowie lipca tego roku. > > Tylko sie Ertesie nie domagaj zeby Niemcy i Francja interweniowaly na wlasna > reke militarnie, bo wiesz ze to niemozliwe. Odpowiedz Link
lucja7 Don Don Don, 18.09.04, 13:07 Bardzo mi sie podoba to co napisales. Dowod ze te wszystkie zony naprawde nauczyly cie duzo i sadze ze dobrze o tym wiesz. Caluje serdecznie naszego swiadka. lucja :)) Odpowiedz Link
aksiegowy Europejska "pomoc" 19.09.04, 14:12 a konkretnie Niemiecka: Pozwole sobie wplesc moj kometarz do tej preswitnej deklaracji "przestanta sie wyzynac bo napiszemy jeszcze jedna deklaracje" www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/archiv_print?archiv_id=6091 Press releases Federal Foreign Minister Fischer on the situation in Darfur/Sudan "The Federal Government remains deeply concerned [ale nie robiacy nic konkretnego poza napisaniem tego oswiadczenie] about the ongoing dramatic [bardzo ladne okreslenie blood shed] situation in Darfur. In view of the incessant reports of militia attacks in Darfur and the most serious violations of human rights [czytaj rzez], we have no grounds to withdraw our warnings [stateczne kiwanie palcem]. The report by the Secretary-General of the United Nations, Kofi Annan, emphasizes that although progress has been made on several points in recent weeks, the Sudanese Government has not heeded significant demands from the international community [no bo niby i czemu, co ta komunity ostanio zrobila by skonczy z rzezia]. To date Khartoum has taken no decisive steps to punish the Jangaweed leaders responsible for the atrocities [daa]. Furthermore, the vast majority of the militias have not been disarmed [aboslutely]. Evidently the militias and the regular armed forces are still cooperating with each other [a dlaczego by mieli przestac przeciz nikt im nie przeszkadza. internetu tam nie ma i nikt nie czyta takich zatroskanych wypowiedzi]. In view of this situation, the international community cannot now afford to reduce the pressure [bedzie wiecej listow i stanowisk] it is exerting. The Sudanese Government must meet all the demands contained in Resolution 1556 [albo wydamy rezolucje 1557]. The Federal Government supports the African Union's plan to extend its observation mission [nawet z uzyciem stelit]and shall strive to obtain firm support for this goal within the EU [czyzby jeszcze go nie mial]. In addition, we shall press [bedzie wiecej listow] for the rigorous identification and prosecution of those responsible for these most serious violations of human rights. The Federal Government remains firmly convinced that the Darfur conflict can only be resolved politically [inczej musialby roszyc 4 litery i zrobic cos konkretnego]. For this reason we expressly welcome the peace talks taking place in Abuja, Nigeria, under the patronage of the African Union [wy tam gadu gadu a ludzie gina w tysiacach ]. All negotiating parties, both the Government and the rebels, are called upon to fulfil their responsibility and work towards a political solution in the interests of the suffering population." published: Friday 03.09.04 Czekam z niecierpliwoscia na link z Francuskim grozeniem palcem. O ile latwij krytykuje sie Ameryke za mieszanie sie niz sie samemu cos robi. Europa gadu gadu, zerka na Ameryke czy ta nie potrzsnie kiesa i szbelka by cos w koncu zrobic a Sudanczycy gina tysiacami. AK Odpowiedz Link
don2 Re: Europejska "pomoc" 19.09.04, 14:50 AK. przeczytalem twoj komentarz do tego co kopiowales.I mam pytanie:ile ty masz lat? Odpowiedz Link
aksiegowy Re: Europejska "pomoc" 19.09.04, 15:19 czasami trzeba mi tlumaczyc jak 7 latkowi i tylko wtedy do mnie dociera Ale to trudnejsze niz tlumaczenie doroslemu i chyba dlatego jakos nie moge sie przekonac do argumentu ze pisanie oswiadczen jest lepsze od zrobienia porzadku nawet sila. AK Odpowiedz Link
don2 Re: Europejska "pomoc" 19.09.04, 15:40 No to widzisz synku,czasami tak jest ,ze trzeba pisac oswiadczenia ,by sila miala moc prawna.Polityka wymaga czasami cierpliwosci.I widzisz synku ,jak dorosniesz to poczytasz powody ,dla ktorych w obecnej chwili sila nie moze wchodzic w gre.niestety cierpia i gina przez to ludzie.badz dobrej mysli i w swojej odleglej ameryce zajmij sie wyszukiwaniem dziur podatkowych,przynajmniej bedzie to z pozytkiem dla twojej kieszeni. Odpowiedz Link
maria421 Do Aksiegowego 19.09.04, 15:45 No wiec postaram sie wytlumaczyc jak 7 letniemu dziecku. Niemcy i Francja sa w NATO. Jest to pakt obronny, ktory zaklada mozliwosc uzycia sily tylko wtedy, kiedy jedno z panst czlonkowskich zostanie napadniete. Jak wiadomo, Sudan nie napada na zadne z panstw NATO. Przypominam ze wojna NATO z Serbia o Kosowo, tez wedlug wielu interpretatorow prawa miedzynarodowego nie miala zadnych podstaw prawnych i do dzis toczy sie spor o podloze prawne tej interwencji. Jedyna mozliwa i zgodna z prawem miedzynarodowym interwencja militarna w Sudanie bylaby interwencja wojsk ONZ. Francja, jako staly czlonek RB ONZ ma wiekszy wplyw na decyzje ewentualnego wyslania wojsk ONZ do Sudanu niz Niemcy. Niemniej jednak ONZ nie spieszy sie z podjeciem zadnej nowej rezolucji, gdyz aktualnie wojska miedzynarodowe sa zajete tak w Kosowie, jak i w Afganistanie, a kto wie, czy jutro nie beda potrzebne w Iraku. USA zreszta tez sobie umywaja rece, gdyz Bush podpisal jesienia 2002 roku "Sudan Peace Act", ale wojska poslal do Iraku. Jezeli wiec Niemcy lub Francja poslalyby wlasne wojska do Sudanu, to oznaczaloby to wypowiedzenie wojny aktualnemu rezimowi w Khartumie, ktory, jak wiadomo jest muzulmanski. Konsejwencja takiej wojny byloby nakrecanie spirali terroryzmu islamskiego. Odpowiedz Link
don2 Re: Do Aksiegowego 19.09.04, 15:59 No i widzisz synku! Nie musiales czekac az dorosniesz.ciocia Maria ladnie wylozyla ci ,to co trzeba. A teraz wez zabawki i idz pobaw sie do swojego pokoju ,bo mamy niedziele i dorosli musza troche odpoczac.Loda? mozesz sobie wziasc z zamrazalnika. Odpowiedz Link
starypierdola Re: Europejska "pomoc" 22.09.04, 14:18 www.nytimes.com/2004/09/22/international/asia/22euro.html SP Odpowiedz Link
jutka1 Re: To do autora watku ktory wie jak sie tam dost 22.09.04, 14:56 trzeba bylo z gory napisac - do ertesa. oszczedzilabym sobie klikania na link. Odpowiedz Link
starypierdola Re: To do autora watku ktory wie jak sie tam dost 24.09.04, 05:00 Jutka,czy Ty czasem nie tlumaczylac na tym Forum kilka tygodnitemu jak sie dostac do NY Times?? Czysta ciekawoisc... SP Odpowiedz Link
ertes Re: Europejska "pomoc" 22.09.04, 15:55 Prosze tu jest artykul dla tych co nie maja a sa ciekawi :) Jednak jaki to ma zwiazek z tytulem watku to nie bardzo rozumiem. KABUL, Afghanistan - Shortly before leaving on a recent patrol, French and German soldiers who have assumed leadership of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's peacekeeping effort here gathered for a pep talk from France's defense minister, Michèle Alliot-Marie. "Your presence is proof that Europe exists and is capable of bringing its weight to bear on the great crises shaking our planet,'' Ms. Alliot-Marie told the troops gathered in the lush green garden of the French Embassy in Kabul. Advertisement An hour later, weighed down by steel-plated body armor, the soldiers were trudging through the dusty, sewer-scented streets on the north end of this capital, where few residents seemed to care about any distinctly European aspects of the peacekeeping mission. But Ms. Alliot-Marie's point was more that the European military presence in Afghanistan is proof to the United States that Europe exists. Or, more specifically, that the long-vaunted idea of a European defense - as distinct from NATO - is slowly taking shape. The French and German soldiers, members of the five-nation Eurocorps, created more than a decade ago as the core of what proponents say could someday become a European army, are the most visible part of Europe's next grand project after unifying its markets under a single currency: a common European foreign policy backed up by military might. Many American officials scoff at the idea as the lionlike dream of a military mouse, but the project has recently made significant strides: the 25-member European Union has created a European Defense Agency to coordinate purchasing and eliminate duplication among the union's militaries; it has established a command center to plan military campaigns; and it has begun training a staff for a European foreign ministry envisaged by the European Union's new constitution, which is awaiting ratification by union members. Eurocorps took over command of NATO's peacekeeping force, known as the International Security Assistance Force, for six months beginning in August, and later this year the European Union will take over peacekeeping in Bosnia-Herzegovina from NATO altogether. Last year, the European Union relieved NATO of its smaller peacekeeping role in Macedonia and carried out its first solo military mission with a peacekeeping operation in Congo. Ms. Alliot-Marie says those operations demonstrate the ways that European defense will work as its capabilities grow: as a part of NATO, in relief of NATO and on its own without NATO. That last option most concerns the United States, which has been eager for Europe to modernize its military capacity and yet is worried that a military-backed European political identity could someday limit Washington's freedom to act in the world. "The French government and academic world don't want to see a continuation of American power expressed in Europe through NATO," said a senior NATO official in Brussels who spoke on condition of anonymity. "Unfortunately, the French government views the E.U.-NATO relationship as a competitive one and wants to weaken NATO to build up European defense." While the United States has long wanted Europe to bear more of the NATO burden, it has worked to prevent a common European defense policy from coalescing outside NATO, warning that it would waste resources. But many Europeans believe that, without its own defense and foreign policy, Europe is doomed to be a nonentity. "The objective is for the E.U. to have the military means to have its own ideas and interests respected the world over,'' a senior French diplomat said. The notion of a European defense grew out of the reconciliation in the 1960's between France and Germany. The countries formed a joint brigade in 1989, which was followed in 1992 by the establishment of Eurocorps, an expanded force that includes troops from Spain, Belgium and Luxembourg. But the concept took greater force with a French-British summit meeting in 1998, and the recognition that an American-led NATO response to crises affecting Europe was no longer guaranteed. Odpowiedz Link
ertes jest wiecej: 22.09.04, 16:43 Europe had recently failed its first big post-cold-war test when it was unable to address ethnic fighting in the Balkans decisively. It took American leadership through NATO to snap Europe out of its diplomatic paralysis and intervene in the crisis. The United States emerged embittered at finding itself forced to share decision-making with an alliance that had little to add militarily. Europe, for its part, emerged chastised by its military impotence. The Balkan conflict provided the impetus for both a European Security and Defense Policy and for the American preference for action through fleeter, ad hoc coalitions. Advertisement "If there were another Balkan war today, I'm not sure we would have the same level of American involvement as before," the senior French diplomat said, arguing that Europe must be prepared to act on its own. That feeling has grown stronger as the United States reduces its military presence in Europe. Washington recently announced plans to cut American troops there, having already shrunk their numbers to about 100,000 from more than 300,000 a little more than a decade ago. Britain, however, has acted as a brake on European ambitions. It is committed to the idea of a European defense but is loath to cross the United States or risk damaging the trans-Atlantic alliance. "The idea that there should be a European alternative equal to NATO is anathema to us," said a British official in Brussels. But the French argue that giving NATO the right of first refusal to act in a crisis makes no sense. "That's a very static view,'' said the senior French diplomat. "Who knows what the security situation will be in 15 to 20 years?'' For now, hobbled by slim defense budgets and ill-equipped militaries among most of its members, the European Union's defense operations have been small. Only a few hundred people were involved in Macedonia, and the 2,000-troop Congo operation was really a French one in European guise. The new European Union military planning capacity counts only a few dozen people, compared with thousands at NATO. Meanwhile, each of the union's 25 members has the right to veto foreign policy decisions, impeding any decisive action by Europe. "Because of the E.U.'s military weakness and lack of political direction, they cannot hope to substitute for NATO," the senior NATO official said. "There's no way the E.U. could take on a difficult mission like Kosovo." Yet while Europe's defense institutions are fledgling and the missions it has undertaken modest, the trajectory is unmistakable. With collective defense spending of about $200 billion, Europe has the capacity to modernize its military if it acts in a coordinated way. "Just 18 months ago, European defense was a virtual structure, doing exercises on paper," the senior French diplomat said. "Now the public can see it in action and the perception is changing." Even before its capacity is in place, the union has begun to consider expanded roles for European defense, including mutual defense - an area previously reserved for NATO. The union's new constitution includes a mutual assistance clause, though it gives NATO the right of first refusal in reacting to any attack on one of its members. Europe's proposed foreign ministry will help coordinate policies among European Union members and should reduce the kind of open rift that developed over support for the American-led war in Iraq. While Europe may never have a clear-cut common foreign policy backed by military capacity, as individual countries do, the growing common interests of union members may well narrow the differences in their worldviews, making joint action increasingly possible. "Five or 10 years ago, European defense was 30 percent rhetoric, 30 percent ideology and 40 percent reality, said François Heisbourg, director of France's Foundation for Strategic Research. "Now, because of what is happening to NATO and the U.S. footprint in Europe, we're moving toward 70 percent reality." Odpowiedz Link
aksiegowy do cioci Marii i wujka Dona 23.09.04, 17:15 U nas w klasie jest kupa dzieciakow. Jedne duze, male, silne, slabe, bogade biedne, madre, glupie i kabinacje tych wszytkich cech. Jest tez tam taki jeden Sudan -taki bully. Gnebi innych i im zyc nie daje. odgraza sie ze jak mu kto bedzie chcial dokopac jek temu glupiemu Irakowi to on dopiero wszytkim pokaze "7 bram piekla". Irak tez byl takim bully. Ale paru chlopakow sie skrzyknelo i mu dolozylo tak ze siedzi teraz cicho i nawet zaczyna sie uczyc tych przedmiotow co ich tak nie lubil - demokracja i tolerancja. Ciociu i Wujku moje pytanie: Czy lepiej pozwolic by bully byl bully i nie dawal zyc innym czy tez lepiej go uziemic tak jak to zrobiono z Irakiem. On z tych karteczek pisanych do niego przez rade klasowa sie smieje, i nic sobie z tych karteczek nie robi bo wie ze to tylko karteczki. co najmniej 50,000 ludzi zostalo zamordowanych w Sudanie i ok 1,500,000 musialo uciekac z wlasnych domow. AK - 9 latek Odpowiedz Link
don2 Re: do cioci Marii i wujka Dona 23.09.04, 17:20 Zgadzam sie w zupelnosci-dzieci sa bardziej bezkompromisowe :)))) Odpowiedz Link
starypierdola Sorry, Man! 24.09.04, 05:02 Jak Ty nie widzisz zwiazku to chyba masz bielmo na oczach. SP Odpowiedz Link