debiut PZU

11.05.10, 23:31
ktos sie skusil na swoje 30 akcji? troche ochlapy, trzeba przyzanc, co mi
przypomina niechlube swiadectwa udzialowe PPP, ktore trzymam nie wiem po co do
dzis (oczywiscie w formie akcji funduszy); jednak i ja uleglem instynktowi
stadnemu i kupilem smile

ciekawe, czy tym razem towar reglamentowany oplacalo sie kupic; swoja droga
interes zycia kosztem SP zrobilo Eureko;
    • kw.pol Re: debiut PZU 12.05.10, 00:00
      > ciekawe, czy tym razem towar reglamentowany oplacalo sie kupic;
      > swoja droga interes zycia kosztem SP zrobilo Eureko;

      robisc, pomijając wszelkie inne aspekty, uważam, że Grad rozwiązał
      sprawę z debiutem PZU całkiem przyzwoicie. Zauważ, że aż 41% oferty
      (z grubsza z całości 10% SP i ok. 17% Eureko) władowano
      nierezydentom i przypuszczam, że to tyle ile można było. Dlatego też
      z perspektywy naszego "interesu narodowego", czyli odkupienia od
      Eureko "drogich" akcji lwia część ich transzy poszła w zagraniczne
      ręce. Pytanie jest tylko, czy nasze debilne OFE, które rzekomo są
      niezadowolone, bo dostały za mało, będą kupować powyżej 300zł czy
      też pozwolą zwalić się tym papierom przynajmniej do 250zł. Ale to
      już trochę inna sprawa. Grad musiał swoją pulę zwiększyć, gdyż nie
      przypuszczał, że idiotów będzie na tyle.

      Tak więc, Eureko kosztem SP zrobiło interes życia, za co podziękować
      powinniśmy defraudatorom i złodziejom z poprzednich ekip, to fakt
      bezsporny. IMHO, wyjście z tego pasztetu rozegrano całkiem nieźle. A
      czy się to opłacało kupić, to już chyba odpowiedziałem.
      • robisc Re: debiut PZU 12.05.10, 00:35
        W PB szacuja debiut na ok. 340 PLN; heh ustawilem zlecenie na 350; a moze jednak
        OFE sie skusza smile

        www.pb.pl/a/2010/05/11/Jest_juz_cena_PZU
        • kw.pol Re: debiut PZU 12.05.10, 09:09
          patrząc na debiut musiały się skusić, brak słów na ten kretynizm.
          Dla wszystkich misi tym lepiej.
          • stoje_i_patrze wig20 12.05.10, 10:49

            17 maja w wig20 wiec musieli kupowac. ja oddalem po 351.kolega po 353. kasa
            odlezy trzy dni (rozliczenie) i trafia na konto kontraktowe

            tez uwazam ze duzego potencjalu wzrostowego nie ma. ale ja to jestem mały
            człowiek....jak jednak patrzę sobie na CZ CWK i porównuje z AXA, Aegon itd to
            godziwa cena te 350. powyzej banka.
            • patchinko Re: wig20 12.05.10, 11:59
              Dla co po niektórych 20 złotych za kghm to też było za dużo.

              A w tej zabawie wcale nie wygrywają ci którzy trafnie określą aktualną wartość.
              • stoje_i_patrze Re: wig20 12.05.10, 12:11
                nie badzmy pewexami nie mylmy dwóch systemów walutowych....

                stooq.pl/q/?s=kgh&d=20100512&c=10y&t=c&a=ln&r=hg.f
                kupowanie w krachu po 20 pln to co innego jak na wysokich poziomach, to nie
                spolka surowcowa, jaki ona ma majatek aby zabezpieczyc sie przed dodrukiem kasy?
    • stoje_i_patrze email 12.05.10, 18:03
      In Poland, the PZU IPO offer, where Goldman Sachs International is co-managing
      the Book-Building, has taken on an infamous nature.

      The following article on the PZU valuation and the public offer entitled "PZU
      IPO supported by social engineering", published in the Polish weekly "Gazeta
      Finansowa", may be of interest to readers and can be downloaded by clicking on
      the link below: www.girodivite.it/IMG/pdf/PZU_IPO_social_engineering.pdf

      On the day following the publication of the over 700-page long issue prospectus,
      binding share subscriptions were already being taken from individual investors.
      Moreover, the principles of share allocation in the case of a reduction in
      subscriptions, favoured those, who had subscribed early. This mechanism was
      quoted by vitally interested Polish newspapers, which were including full-page
      advertisements for the offer and it created a stampede amongst natural persons.

      The media involved in the offer were vying with each other in hotting up the
      temperature. The Polish public were made to believe, through semi-official leaks
      amongst other methods, that there was enormous interest in the offer and this
      was to have the effect of a large drop in subscriptions. Aleksander Grad,
      Minister of the Polish Treasury, who is extremely well versed in EUREKO’s
      business, was talking young people into persuading their grandfathers to
      purchase PZU shares. This is a most unusual situation for a minister to make
      such recommendations in the securities market.

      Many private investors, who were subscribing for PZU shares, were convinced that
      it was a privatization scheme. In actual fact, EUREKO is selling 10% of the PZU
      slice directly, 15% is being sold by special purpose company KAPPA (in which
      EUREKO owns 67.11% of equity while the Treasury has 32.89%) and 5% by the Treasury.
      There was no mention of EUREKO in any advertising for the offer in the Polish
      press, instead of EUREKO there was symbolic representation of the Treasury and
      the emblem of the Republic of Poland. Full use was made of the authority of the
      Polish state in order for Eureko to sell shares to the general public.
      The link to the advertisement in Polish press:
      img199.imageshack.us/img199/1619/pzueureko.jpg
      It turns out that despite a huge witch-hunt by Polish media, there will be no
      reduction in subscriptions for natural persons, at the same time the price for
      institutions has already been set no higher than that for natural persons.
      The daily newspapers involved in the offer, although they were severely mistaken
      with regards to the course it took, continue to create the reality, this time
      trying to make the public believe that there has been an oversubscription for
      institutions – a solution, which does not function in the offer at all.

      The PZU offer is a social engineering exercise directed at natural persons, but
      also at institutions. We have no accounts relating to what the book-building
      subscriptions were like for institutional investors – it is the price
      nevertheless, which gives an indication of interest.
      We can be positive that the offering party defended – as far as possible - the
      maximum offer price for individual investors, as a lower price would demonstrate
      that the institutions view the offer differently to sellers and the public.
      Therefore, the answers to what the finalization of the subscriptions was really
      like and who made the potential book-building emergency subscriptions, or
      “simulated subscriptions”, in order to indicate demand, cannot be determined -
      only Eureko, Goldman Sachs and a few others are in a position to know the true
      course of events…
      Whereas, two facts, the price for institutions matching that for private
      individuals, and the lack of a reduction in offer subscriptions, reveal a
      totally different picture than that presented by the media „inspired” by the offer.

      It appears that the issue prospectus was lacking in terms of any risk related to
      a conscious action by the Offering Party, as a result of which individual
      investors were denied the right to fully familiarise themselves with the issue
      prospectus, prior to placing binding share subscriptions.

      It is also important to note that those from abroad may not be aware of the
      risk, which results from the fact that the Treasury has become the company’s
      single primary shareholder. In Poland, large companies subject to control by the
      Treasury are under pressure from political party activists of the currently
      ruling coalition, who insist on posts for their deserving party members. This
      risk includes not only the highest authorities, but concerns all departments and
      establishments of the company. State-owned companies, in particular, those with
      an extensive territorial structure, are regarded as job sources for those
      connected to the ruling camps.

      Investors should also consider the statements made during the public offer by
      Treasury Minister, Aleksander Grad, whilst share subscriptions for individual
      investors were still being taken; the minister stated that a reduction in
      subscriptions will probably follow despite increasing the number of shares on
      offer, and the Treasury selling its 5 percent of the PZU slice:

      “The interest in the PZU shares was so great that the Treasury Minister will
      sell 5 per cent more of the company’s value than the agreement with Eureko
      requires. To sum up, small players may end up with as much as 7.745 million
      worth of shares instead of the 6 million planned earlier. Despite this, a
      reduction in subscriptions will probably follow – admitted Treasury boss,
      Aleksander Grad.
      Rzeczpospolita daily, April 28, 2010:

      In a similar fashion, the Treasury Minister, Aleksander Grad, publicised
      information relating to the course of subscriptions in the institutional
      investors tranche, and fuelled emotions:
      – At present, the oversubscription in the institutional investors’ tranche is
      substantially over four-fold, whilst the sale price for this tranche will be
      made public on Friday – advised Aleksander Grad, the Treasury Minister, on
      Thursday”.
      Warsaw, 29 April (PAP)

      Whatever oversubscription was supposed to mean (as after all, what is
      significant is the price for which an investor makes a pledge), Minister Grad
      was disclosing information from the course of the offer.

      Not only the Minister, but Polish daily newspapers were hotting up the offer, in
      a similar manner to Polish news agency correspondents, (who were stuck in the
      same crowd) and participated in an identical tone. This is how it is in Poland,
      journalists and correspondents often present that, to which they have been won
      over by a company or a lobbying group.
      Only Eureko, the selling party, kept quiet, so quiet, in fact that one could
      hear a pin drop... Something is not quite right, one can see that the
      quietly-sitting shareholder, who is quite capable of backstage negotiations, has
      made an above average lobbying effort amongst other things ...to avoid using its
      own name.

      PZU's debut should be successful as maintaining euphoria in Poland is beneficial
      for the influential group surrounding those selling shares. In addition, those
      in charge of Polish funds are swayed by various arguments, where it can be seen
      in hindsight that the decisions made were not the right ones and differed from
      foreign investments too. That is just a tradition of Poland...there is an
      expression in the market (OFERMA), which means klutz in Polish, taken from the
      abbreviation OFE, which stands for Polish retirement funds. Although another
      description would be more apt.
    • forall4a Polskie debiuty 15.05.10, 17:41
      Zawsze trafiaja w szczyt na gieldach zagranicznych. Czy jest to wyrachowana gra jak w przypadku Ryska Krauze czy tylko malo udany, taki nadwislanskiej roboty timing?
    • robisc oplacalo sie sprzedac 20.05.10, 19:03
      slyszalem zapewnienia, ze PZU nie zbankrutuje z powodu powodzi smile;
      pewnie nie, ale z dywidenada za ten rok mozna sie pozegnac
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