mameja21 29.05.08, 21:31 Czy miał ktoś już okazję przetestować ? Czy rzeczywiście ma aż tak kiepskie zawieszenie, własności jezdne i układ kierowniczy jak opisują w przedostatnim numerze "Auto Motor i Sport" ? Link Zgłoś czytaj wygodnie posty
foreks poczytaj sobie kretynie 29.05.08, 22:00 While the Ford Kuga gets all the attention for rocking up fashionably late at the SUV crossover party, the poor Forester seems to have blundered far, far from any kind of trendiness. What a turnaround. The Mk1 Forester was well ahead of the curve, back in 1997. It was pretty much the originator of the soft-roader genre. Since then, this one-off has spawned a rampant contagion - not just Ford but Renault, Volvo, Mercedes and Saab will launch the things this year. But as the Kuga shows, the thing to do in '08 is to dress in swoopy, flashy body panels. Instead, the Forester is bulkier and boxier than ever, in an inexplicable attempt to mimic old-style SUVs - vehicles now deeply unfashionable. Oops. Climb inside, and you meet a jumble of well-assembled but mismatched, hard-surfaced dash plastics that would have been quite good in a supermini 10 years ago, but are distinctly yesterday in today's 'premium crossover'. And then you start up the engine. Petrol? But dahlink, hasn't just everyone gone diesel in their crossovers now? That, though, is the joy of dealing with Subaru: it's a company that doesn't give a stuff about fashion. It doesn't really do marketing, and the design department is small and meek and always getting knocked back by the guys who really rule the roost, the engineers. If it's a question of finding the budget for a soft-feel dash or a better kind of bearing in the centre diff, it's the diff that'll win out every time. Remember, the corporate notepaper still says Fuji Heavy Industries. A no-nonsense name for a proper, no-nonsense Japanese car company. So the Forester goes about its business with utter conviction and sincerity. Only a boxer engine is good enough, because it's short front-to-rear and low top-to-bottom. So the centre of gravity is low (perfect when on the road) yet the ground clearance is high (perfectoff it). The crankshaft runs fore-aft rather than transversely, which makes the AWD transmission straightforward and light. Subaru has clung to this layout for yonks. It's expensive, but it works. In the whole wide world, there's only one other car company as stubborn, and it happens to use the same layout, albeit with two more cylinders and travelling in the opposite direction. Yes, think of a Forester as a 911 Carrera 4 going backwards and you won't be far wrong. All of which means this thing has the road manners to make other crossovers feel a league off the pace. The others are either stiff to make them handle, so they ride like carts - see the X3 and Tiguan. Or they're soft in search of comfort, but corner like galleons. In some cases, they neither ride nor handle. But the Forester deals with bumps really sweetly, yet still likes a bend or two. It rolls and pitches a bit, but in a progressive kind of way, and is happy for you to enjoy the traction. All that lets it down is the power steering, a new fully electric system with too little feel. Unfortunately, Subaru can sometimes be tripped up by its corporate uniqueness and smallness. When Europe started to go mad for diesels 10 years ago, insular little Subaru wouldn't - couldn't afford to actually - jump on the bandwagon. And because its cars were designed around the boxers, there was no way of taking the standard industry shortcut and buying-in an in-line engine from Fiat or Peugeot. So the new Forester launches as a petrol only, as previous Foresters always were. But those diligent engineers have stuck their necks right out and developed the world's only boxer diesel engine. It's in the Legacy just now and is great. It comes to the Forester this September, with a six-speed gearbox. Which is a relief, because the petrol engine doesn't really have the guts required. Sure, it's smooth and makes a nice burble and revs like a yo-yo, so it's pleasant to use in town or on a curvy road. The trouble comes when you have to overtake something. Worse still is the auto: it's just a four-speed, and in the interests of eking out a not-too-catastrophic CO2 figure, it has been given cripplingly high gearing. I was in the auto and passing a full-size white van on a dual carriageway when the road took a tiny upward incline and he unceremoniously undertook me right back again. The Forester uses the new Impreza platform, which is wider than before and longer in the wheelbase. You feel the generosity of space in the cabin, especially the back, where there's even a split reclining seat. The boot's bigger and squarer too, though it still has a high floor. No worries about loading it right up, as there's self-levelling suspension - another purist bit of engineering most customers won't even realise they've got. Ditto the dual-range transfer lever on the manual version, which lowers the overall ratio, effectively giving you another five shorter gears,which is dead useful for off-road control, or towing. Approach and departure angles are good for off-roading too: no specious spoilers and sill extensions here, thank you. Blue dials liven up the cabin a bit, certainly more successfully than the slightly dodgy metallic trim strips in two different shades. Adding to the mild shortage of surprise-and-delight, Subaru is evidently still using up an early-1990s bulk order from the First Nippon Standard Fascia Vent and Column Stalk Works. See, that's the trouble with the Forester. It's commendable and enjoyable and (especially when the diesel comes) an all-round good vehicle. It's a great tool, and past Subaru form shows it'll never let you down. But it's not a piece of clothing or a lifestyle statement. Even the people who own it aren't bothered about appearances. Subaru UK staff say the buyers, who are intensely loyal, just think of it as a tall go-anywhere estate, not as some lifestyle-statement SUV. But then, the less you feel the need to make a statement about it, the more likely you are actually to have the lifestyle. For that, I hugely admire the Forester, even though it seems to have been deliberately styled to be unloved. You could spend thousands more on a basic X3, and you'd have a worse vehicle, albeit one that did more to elevate your social status among the know-nothings. Subaru is demanding a lot of self-confidence from you, because the Forester, by its drabness, refuses to massage your ego. Surely it would have been possible to make something smarter-looking that was just as useful and didn't cost any more? Paul Horrell Link Zgłoś
sniperslaststand Re: poczytaj sobie kretynie 29.05.08, 23:26 v-6 napisał: > Skąd to jest? Skądkolwiek by nie było, obecny Forester istotnie, w slalomie i na skidpadzie (jedyne kwantyfikowalne sposóby oceny przyczepności auta i konstrukcji zawieszenia), jest za europejską konkurencją. BMW X3, LR2 jadą te konkurencje lepiej, podobnie jak Touareg 2 i BMW X5 (te ostatnie jednak były prawie 2x droższe od Forestera i na oponach 255 czy 275, o niższym profilu). Na dziś gorzej od Forestera jedzie tylko obecna generacja Mercedesa ML350. (Źródło: Edmunds InsideLane) Jeśli jednak o Auto Motor i Sport ogólnie chodzi, to nie sugerowałbym się niczym, co tam jest pisane. W ramach postępującej manipulacji swych testów, AMiS usunął z oceny takie aspekty jak cena aut, czas trwania gwarancji, koszty utrzymania, co w zasadzie jest esencją nierzetelności. Coraz bardziej muszą się napinać, aby niemieckie auta zawsze wygrywały. Oczywiście publikowanie mierzalnych wyników jazdy jest w AMiS także rzadkością. Zaś danych z płyt poślizgowych nie opublikowali chyba nigdy w ramach rzeczowego porównywania aut. --- youtube.com/watch?v=VFQ3gGzyNG0 Link Zgłoś
chris62 Re: poczytaj sobie kretynie 30.05.08, 08:45 niperslaststand napisał: > Jeśli jednak o Auto Motor i Sport ogólnie chodzi, to nie sugerowałbym się niczy > m, co tam jest pisane. W ramach postępującej manipulacji swych testów, AMiS usu > nął z oceny takie aspekty jak cena aut, czas trwania gwarancji, koszty utrzyman > ia, co w zasadzie jest esencją nierzetelności. Czy ja wiem.. Po co do porównania 2óch rzeczy jest cena i inne aspekty kosztowe? Porównujemy 2 rzeczy i mam stwierdzić, która jest lepsza to wszystko. Jak ktoś chce kupić wtedy rozważa cenę zakupu i medytuje czy warto dołożyć do lepszego czy pozostać przy gorszym z wyjątkiem rzadkich sytuacji kiedy akurat tańsze jest lepsze. Link Zgłoś
foreks chyba czegos nie rozumiem 30.05.08, 09:10 powtorze sie: All of which means this thing has the road manners to make other crossovers feel a league off the pace. The others are either stiff to make them handle, so they ride like carts - see the X3 and Tiguan. Or they're soft in search of comfort, but corner like galleons. In some cases, they neither ride nor handle. But the Forester deals with bumps really sweetly, yet still likes a bend or two. Link Zgłoś
v-6 Nie ty jeden 30.05.08, 20:48 Witam! Bo oto w "Automoto" p. Maciej Pertyński tak kończy pełną zachwytów recenzję forda kuga: "Wygląda na to, że w tym segmencie jest już pozamiatane. Rywalom dziękujemy." (cytat dosłowny) W dodatku opiniuje tak na podstawie właściwości jezdnych kugi, zupełnie jak twój angol. No, plus uroda forda. Robi się ciekawie w segmencie lekkich suv-ów, ja się cieszę, to moja ulubiona klasa. Pozdrawiam v-6 Link Zgłoś
datura333 Re: Nie ty jeden 11.08.08, 12:30 my tez sie teraz z mezem rozgladamy wlasnie za jakims suv-em i kuga jest naszym faworytem - wyposazenie, wyglad - dla mnie licza sie glownie te cechy (za reszte odpowiada maz) i ford wypada fantastycznie, jak na moj gust oczywiscie Link Zgłoś
al9 mamaeja nie do końca nie ma racji 11.08.08, 15:08 subaru nie jest konkurencją dla bmw - tu mameja ma rację.. ale z kugą czy ravem - może walczyć.. jak skutecznie - to inna sprawa... kuga ma wyjątkowo nieciekawe wnętrze (ale jak widać - ford wie, że większości sie spodoba) subaru jest skromniejsze, firma niszowa - zawsze znajdzie paru amatorów... Auta ciekawe (legacy czy outback) teraz są dużo tańsze... a więc? :-) Pozdr al Link Zgłoś
datura333 Re: mamaeja nie do końca nie ma racji 12.08.08, 10:45 czemu nieciekawe wnetrze? jak dla mnie to wszystko tam bylo na miejscu :) Link Zgłoś
mameja21 Re: TG 30.05.08, 21:59 Przecież próby porównywania Subaru Z BMW, Volkswagenem, LR czy Fordem to jak przyrównywanie szmat kupionych u Wietnamczyka na bazarze, z normalną odzieżą... Link Zgłoś
przemekthor mameja, jak czytam te twoje wpisy... 31.05.08, 16:00 to mi sie ziemniaki w piwnicy traca. Ponad wszelka watpliwosc, przejales od habudzika i izydy funkcje forumowego glupola. Gratuluje! Link Zgłoś