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One year on from joining the EU

08.06.05, 14:51
How have you found the question of equal treatment, if you have come here
from another EU country? Have you been discriminated against in any way?

I have. I was not allowed to re-register my car into Polish plates because of
having the steering wheel on the British side. I call that discrimination
against people from one of the countries of the EU. In other EU countries we
are allowed to have our cars registered without hitch.

I was told I had to ask the Minister of Transport in a letter please to allow
an exception to the rule that we couldn't. Hello? What is this, my Treaty of
Rome rights are being given to me as ministerial favours, now?

Either I have the right to the same treatment here as Polish people who go to
live in Britain do, or it is time to do something about it, that something
meaning less money for Poland from the EU coffers until they can learn how to
deserve it by understanding that it involves duties as well as priviledges
and hand outs to be a EU member.

Here on this Forum, we can collate the worst cases of denial of rights to EU
based foreigners, and communicate them to the Embassies when the trends
emerge of what isn't being done right. Don't get me wrong, in most cases the
treatment of EU foreigners is, and always has been, very good. But there are
still certain old-guard urzedniks who still don't understand that we are the
client and they are there to give us satisfaction, and I for one am not going
to put up with ANY of them.

Many Poles have told me they can't stand the urzedniks too, but they have
been waiting for the EU to sort them out. Well, surprise surprise - the EU is
you and me, so let's give them what they want.
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    • portulaco Automative pressing issues. 30.06.05, 14:30
      I'm very sorry for this question with your RHD, it's really sad and the proof
      that EU has still many to do with the basic rights of Europeans. I legalized my
      car with no problems (it's of course a LHD) and I recall to see few cars in
      London with LHD and british number plates - probably from emigrants? -

      Another question is that i'm driving with Portuguese Driver Licence and
      according to Lodz Wydział Komunikacji I simple cannot! I need to pass an exam
      to have the Polish Prawo Jasde, I called to the Portuguese embassy in Warsow
      and got the same answer than I decide to write an e-mail to the European
      Commission and complain.

      Answer? Yes! I can drive here and if needed change the document for Polish one!
      So I went again to Lodz Wydział Komunikacji and got the same NIE...

      Another Portuguese friend of myne went there and after showing the e-mail from
      the commission (written in Polish) got this answer "it's up to you Sir if you
      want to drive with your Portuguese Driver Licence or not..."

      This friend was stoped by the police two times and no problems at all with
      this, they just found curious.

      What is going on then?

      I guess the best solution for you will be to sell your car in the UK since the
      change from RHD to LHD it's really a hell, I used to work with cars and even
      the windscreen wipers engine is assembled in the opposite way sad

      Good luck anyway!
      • asia9111 Re: Automative pressing issues. 30.06.05, 16:32
        Gents:
        this is starting to look ike an automotive revolution smile As you know, I am
        planning on going back to PL, maybe as early as 2006 and started accumulating
        info on some of the mundane (and aggravating) things to accomplish before my
        move is complete. well, I had my family call Urzad Komunikacji, as well as
        someone who is a licensed examiner for driver licenses, and guess what? also
        got two different answers. My issue was: upon my return, I will have a US
        license-can I use it, and for how long? ( Yes,yes, I do know US is not EU) In
        both cases the answer was "you can drive with it for 6 months." At this point
        the answers diverged and version a. (examiner) was: you have to take the
        written exam and version b. (Urzad Komunikacji) no exam necessary, since you
        already had had a license in Poland which expired during your stay in the US.
        We can all write a book about Polish urzedniks-and usually it pays to consult
        with more than one person (which, I must say, leaves you more confused). There
        is something in our psyche that says-well, these are the rules, you don't like
        my answer
        • portulaco Re: Automative pressing issues. 30.06.05, 16:47
          Hi there in the USA!

          Your US driver license is for manual or automatic? I recall a friend of myne
          wich used to have a Canadian Driver License for automatic gear-box and she had
          to pass an examination for clutch and shift cars sad Pay attention to this
          detail ok?

          And prepare yourself for some bumps in Polish roads wink
          • asia9111 Re: Automative pressing issues. 30.06.05, 17:02
            they do not differentiate here (on the license) in any way whether you
            are 'qualified' to drive automatic or shitf. My Polish license was, naturally,
            for shift, but here, just like 95% of the population I have driven automatic
            only. My car will come to PL with me, so I will be ok for a while, as it is
            automatic.
            I go back home once a year, so bumps in the road are nothing new sad
            Maybe EU should donate more money to fix the roads? Just joking.
        • usenetposts Re: Automative pressing issues. 02.07.05, 20:59
          I find that the bureaucracy with cars is very tiresome if you try to do things
          by the book, and yet if you don't you just drive around the place anyway.

          If you ask the urzedniks, they will tell you you can only have your car or
          licence for such and such a time. My embassy told me that was against EU law,
          and they just hadn't trained their urzedniks. The fact of the matter is that EU
          citizens in practice are unlikely to get told to change their licence plates or
          their licences. Even if they have long since lapsed their road tax in their
          home country.

          Questions are asked about insurance policies and owner documents, and driving
          licences and if you have these and they're not out of date in the country of
          origin, then in practice you'd have to be extremely unlucky to have any further
          questions asked by a policeman, etc.

          What you notice is a lot of German cars with numbers instead of letters after
          the first hyphen. That means they have no fixed abode in Germany. In the main
          these people have bought cars in Germany to take abroad but never registered or
          taxed them outside Germany, while the German tax disk lapsed years ago.

          I am not sure whether many of these vehicles are even insured, but the police
          seem oblivious to this fact as long as they drive slowly. Which naturally they
          do.
      • nasza_maggie urzednicy.... 06.12.05, 17:24
        bloody hate them, I wish there was a polish translation for the term 'civil
        servant' maybe they would take their job more seriously.
        Honestly? I don't think it's about being an EU citizen or not.
        I think it will take a genereation or two to make urzednicy change. It is just
        in their blood (to piss you right off from the moment you walk in).


        You think you have problems with a car?!

        Matey, I won a przetarg/auction recently...ok. 2 months ago - and I'd love to
        see you handle the people I have to deal with.

        The ownership and procedure goes like this:

        1) Gimna (they prepare the auction/own the place).

        2) ZGN (they sign the contract).

        3) Administracja (they give you permission to do the
        building/decorating/changing of locks,windows,painting,electricity -
        ridiculous).



        So 3 different offices, responsible for one little place. And NOBODY knows how
        it really looks or what is there, except the handy man from (3)ADM. And the
        papers just get pushed back and forth between the 3.

        The woman in the (1)Gmina, claims she cannot tell the witch in the (2)local
        council what to do - even though she is above her. We had a big hoo-ha about
        what should be first, the technical check up or the contract. We claimed we
        should check the place technically (measure etc) - compare to their paper (as
        they have their own opinion on the place he he) and then sign the contract.

        NO NO NO! First the contract, then you can do what you like. Why? Where's the
        paragraph for that? Erm, there isn't one, it's just always been like that. Deal
        with it.

        In the przetarg/aukcja there were altogether 6 rooms, now it says there are 7 -
        "ah yes, but the meters sq. sum up so it's ok". They have no clue what's going
        on in their back garden. You don't demand things, you PAY.

        Then the lady in the (3) ADM told me the place had been cleaned, had to go and
        take pictures to show her it had not. It was a tip.

        She had no idea HOW the place looks or what it consisted of - apart from the
        document she had been given by the previous owner who buggered off leaving them
        30,000zl debt (which I found out coincidentally by looking thru a whole file of
        documents/technical descriptions, which nobody wanted to show me before i paid
        in the deposit). Even now I can't seem to force them to show me any technical
        plans of the place I am paying them rent for.

        The bloke who in (3) ADM is responisible for the technical aspect of
        my 'lokal', it is so far taking him 2 farking weeks to sign a paper, whereby he
        gives me permission to cut out an old boiler!!! I have to write up exactly what
        bulding work Im doing, they have to give me permision for it before I start.
        And I AM PAYING RENT already. DO THEY CARE?

        Not to mention the 3 month deposit the the lawyers fees, which summed up to
        thousands before I even got the keys.

        Time is money. But to them all time is is 9-3pm, push the papers, don't bother
        them - it's just a job. A job they've been doing for 30 years so how dare YOU
        come and demand things to be done?! YOU CRAZY EUROPEAN!!!!!!

        So wish me luck - and pass me my Bensons, yeah? smile
        • usenetposts Re: urzednicy.... 06.12.05, 19:59
          We will ask Jackie Sraw for some of the money that was due to cme here to be
          set aside to have an ombudsman in Brussels who simply receives all the
          complaints from people about individual named urzednicy, and then once a
          quarter comes across, sacks the sorry asses of the worst twelve, and cuts the
          pay of their boss by 20%, and their boss's boss by 10% "pour encourager les
          autres".
            • usenetposts Re: urzednicy.... 07.12.05, 00:44
              russh napisał:

              > But how did you get on with your car?

              I kept it on the British system.

              Since we are being asked to go through hoops which are absolutely
              unsanctionable when we try to re-register, we are within our EU rights to keep
              our cars the way they are.

              This presents a problem only for insurance.

              There is, however, an insurance broker in the UK who actually specialises in
              our problem.

              His name is Stuart Collins, and I suggest you give him a call on 01792 in the
              UK, 655562.

              He offers the best solution I have found so far.
              • russh Re: urzednicy.... 07.12.05, 05:44
                Thanks.

                But the problem is also tax & mot, both needed on a yearly basis, and requiring
                to go back to the uk by car!

                Is that what you do?

                Re insurance - the uk is bloody expensive. I have only 2 years NCB, and it sets
                me back some £720 (I've a Omega 2.5). I've also got a Polish Voyager (2.5), no
                NCB, and it costs 1380zl (£240). I'll give your guy a call today.
                • usenetposts Re: urzednicy.... 11.12.05, 00:15
                  russh napisał:

                  > Thanks.
                  >
                  > But the problem is also tax & mot, both needed on a yearly basis, and
                  requiring
                  > to go back to the uk by car!

                  I think you will find that in fact you will not be required to do so.

                  >
                  > Is that what you do?

                  I thought I had to, but I got the renewal anyway.

                  >
                  > Re insurance - the uk is bloody expensive. I have only 2 years NCB, and it
                  sets
                  > me back some £720 (I've a Omega 2.5). I've also got a Polish Voyager (2.5)
                  > , no
                  > NCB, and it costs 1380zl (£240). I'll give your guy a call today.


                  How did you get on? For 3rd party fire and feft it should be less dear than
                  that.

    • waldek1610 Re: One year on from joining the EU 11.12.05, 09:14
      usenetposts napisał:

      > Have you been discriminated against in any way?
      > I have. I was not allowed to re-register my car into Polish plates because of
      > having the steering wheel on the British side.

      Is there anything else you have "backwards"?


      > Either I have the right to the same treatment here as Polish people who go to
      > live in Britain do, or it is time to do something about it, that something
      > meaning less money for Poland from the EU coffers until they can learn how to
      > deserve it by understanding that it involves duties as well as priviledges
      > and hand outs to be a EU member.

      One small clarification; Poland did not joined EU so Brits can cruise polish
      roads with their steering wheel backwards, nor so the French can dump their
      goods and sell Poland whatever they can't sell elswhere....Besides Poland pays
      more money to EU than it receives. It's not like Poland has no reason to
      complain. Do you British think that Poland joined EU... so UK can gain access
      to our market??


      > But there are
      > still certain old-guard urzedniks who still don't understand that we are the
      > client and they are there to give us satisfaction, and I for one am not going
      > to put up with ANY of them.

      The idea is that they provide service that noone else does, what their provide
      is scarce and is valuable...so they feel like they doing you favor just by
      listening to you.


      > Many Poles have told me they can't stand the urzedniks too, but they have
      > been waiting for the EU to sort them out. Well, surprise surprise - the EU is
      > you and me, so let's give them what they want.

      Yeah, and Poles also hoped that they will have equal rights in EU, same as
      Germany and UK, suprise, suprise!
      • usenetposts Re: One year on from joining the EU 12.12.05, 02:21
        waldek1610 napisał:

        > usenetposts napisał:
        >
        > > Have you been discriminated against in any way?
        > > I have. I was not allowed to re-register my car into Polish plates becaus
        > e of
        > > having the steering wheel on the British side.
        >
        > Is there anything else you have "backwards"?
        >

        If you think that the left side is backwards from the right, then you must be
        dimensionally challenged.

        >
        > > Either I have the right to the same treatment here as Polish people who g
        > o to
        > > live in Britain do, or it is time to do something about it, that somethin
        > g
        > > meaning less money for Poland from the EU coffers until they can learn ho
        > w to
        > > deserve it by understanding that it involves duties as well as priviledge
        > s
        > > and hand outs to be a EU member.
        >
        > One small clarification; Poland did not joined EU so Brits can cruise polish
        > roads with their steering wheel backwards, nor so the French can dump their
        > goods and sell Poland whatever they can't sell elswhere....Besides Poland
        pays
        > more money to EU than it receives. It's not like Poland has no reason to
        > complain. Do you British think that Poland joined EU... so UK can gain access
        > to our market??
        >

        That was part of the deal. They shoulda read the small print.

        Plenty of us were urging you to, but no-one would listen.

        And the referendum passed.

        >
        > > But there are
        > > still certain old-guard urzedniks who still don't understand that we are
        > the
        > > client and they are there to give us satisfaction, and I for one am not g
        > oing
        > > to put up with ANY of them.
        >
        > The idea is that they provide service that noone else does, what their
        provide
        > is scarce and is valuable...so they feel like they doing you favor just by
        > listening to you.
        >

        That's what people who work for the government tend to feel, but the attitude
        belongs to the days of feudalism, not the days of modern democracy.

        I pay for their time, therefore I DEMAND a proper service.

        They'd better get used to it. We're not gonna go away.

        >
        > > Many Poles have told me they can't stand the urzedniks too, but they have
        >
        > > been waiting for the EU to sort them out. Well, surprise surprise - the E
        > U is
        > > you and me, so let's give them what they want.
        >
        > Yeah, and Poles also hoped that they will have equal rights in EU, same as
        > Germany and UK, suprise, suprise!

        We gave you equal rights, as far as the UK and Ireland and Sweden is concerned.
        That the other members didn't and old muggins here in the form of one or two
        fair minded countries did is absolutely no surprise whatsoever.

        You should have studied a bit more and listened to what ordinary Europeans were
        saying before pushing in there.

        Polak, jak zawsze, madry po szkodzie.
        • waldek1610 Re: One year on from joining the EU 12.12.05, 07:26
          usenetposts napisał:

          > If you think that the left side is backwards from the right, then you must be
          > dimensionally challenged.

          Oh stop, you know pretty well what "na odwrot" means (backwards or simply the
          other -way)


          > That's what people who work for the government tend to feel, but the attitude
          > belongs to the days of feudalism, not the days of modern democracy.
          >
          > I pay for their time, therefore I DEMAND a proper service.

          I totaly agree with you. I felt same way when I was getting the HIV test done
          in Poland in Cracow clinic back in 1990, which I spend $ 100.00 US dollars for,
          and the doctor said; "come on, we got no time to waste time". I regret to this
          day that I didn't tell her:"Stupid b..ch, I paid you for this test more what an
          average pole makes a month, and you have a courage to treat me like a
          livestock...F..k y..!!!" Test came out negative just in case somebody would
          wonder.

          > They'd better get used to it. We're not gonna go away.


          Its not like only Brits demand good treatment...


          > You should have studied a bit more and listened to what ordinary Europeans
          were
          >
          > saying before pushing in there.
          >
          > Polak, jak zawsze, madry po szkodzie.

          Well, you could argue that...How would you explain the problems that resulted
          from British Immigration policy, I mean the terrorist bombings i London and the
          problems you're having with minorities.

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