'Solidarity' 25 years on.

03.08.05, 20:54
So it's 25 years this month since the Solidarity strikes in Gdansk.
I've been thru the press a bit and Gazeta has a good service on the events.
serwisy.gazeta.pl/kraj/0,67064,0.html
I really reccomend the old pictures (Wałęsa looks so different!). And the
interview with Norman Daviessmile
Will anyone be at the commemorations? Or maybe the Jean Michel Jarre concert?

If any of you have any other links let me know. Also, you may not know but
the shipyard in Gdansk has become somewhat of a cultural center with modern
art and concertssmile A place which many young people visit - something on the
lines of 'Documenta' in Germany but a little more 'underground'smile
    • kylie1 Re: 'Solidarity' 25 years on. 03.08.05, 22:02
      Interesting stuff, Maggie...thank you!

      smile
      • asia9111 Re: 'Solidarity' 25 years on. 04.08.05, 00:17
        I was there 3 meters from the shipyard wall and the main gate-visiting my
        Grandparents. Could not understand why the workers were sitting on a crane,
        demanding to see the management. In Gdansk, I lived through this, walking to
        school, no transportation, and then the marshall law. Tough to believe it has
        been 25 years already!
    • ianek70 Re: 'Solidarity' 25 years on. 04.08.05, 01:54
      For almost everybody, Poles or not, it means something completely different now
      than 25 years ago.
      To, co miało być przyszłość, jest już przeszłość nasza...
      Ask people from western Trade Unions what they think about the money they gave
      in the 80s for photocopiers, paper, etc for Solidarność, did they do it so that
      Poland could be the same or even worse now than the UK in Thatcher's days?
      Communism was bollocks, even communists accept that fact, but Wałęsa is only a
      hero for people that don't know what he's been up to for the past 20 years.
      • kylie1 Re: 'Solidarity' 25 years on. 04.08.05, 02:52
        Ianek, what is it you're trying to say? I am totally lost...( photocopiers and
        Thatcher?)
        • asia9111 Re: 'Solidarity' 25 years on. 04.08.05, 04:26
          I think what he is trying to say, or at least what is apparent to those of us
          who spent years after August 1980 in Gdansk, Walesa emerged as one of less
          stellar heroes of that time. There are many facts, seldom discussed, that would
          make your stomach turn. People from other cities in Poland were refusing to
          believe any of the facts that could be presented. I remember having to cut my
          trip short. I was visiting a college pal of mine, away from Gdansk, and her
          father started talking about Solidarity and Walesa. I mentioned a couple of
          things, and boy, did I have to pack my bags and go back to Gdansk right after
          inner. I offended the legend! Yep, I could tell you stories-but I do not want
          to have to pack my bags and leave this forum smile As they say, the diffenece
          between a US presidential candidate and a Polish one is that the American has
          to be a millionaire BEFORE he assumes the office.
          • kylie1 Re: 'Solidarity' 25 years on. 04.08.05, 08:46
            Ok. I think I know what you're saying, but regardless of what he is up to, just
            think where would Poland be now if it wasn't for his heroic efforts back in the
            80's? Plus the Nobel Peace Prize and all that. It really means something,
            doesn't it? I don't really have a clue what the guy is doing right now but I am
            so glad Poland is free from communism, enjoys a free market democracy, is a
            NATO member and in the EU to boot. That's all that should matter as far as I am
            concerned.
            smile
            • usenetposts Re: 'Solidarity' 25 years on. 04.08.05, 10:16
              I think what Kylie just said is right. We tend to have naive expectations of
              historical figures in this day and age. The human race was, is and always will
              be a patchwork of good and less good intentions, willing and less willing
              spirits and weak and less weak flesh.

              Most of the people who were instrumental in overturning communism made their
              fortune along the way. Take Gorbachev, who received a million dollars for
              appearing in a pizza hut commercial, should he have profited in this way? I
              know those who might say no, but for me it seems a small price to pay for the
              liberation of so many countries.

              When the share of the vote for Walesa dropped the second time he faced
              Kwasniewski to a mere 1.03% of the vote, I had to say that it looked like
              everyone had a very short memory and a fair amount of ingratitude to the man.

              It's little wonder that the remaining countries like North Korea and Belarus
              are dragging their feet in the return to capitalism, when those who would be
              the leaders of democracy see the ingratitude that awaits them.
            • asia9111 Re: 'Solidarity' 25 years on. 04.08.05, 14:12
              Kylie:
              he is not up to much nowadays, retired from the presidential post. It is not
              that I am not applauding freedom and free market economy-I just do not
              appreciate revolutionaries turning into the 'monsters' they have been fighting.
              I do not begrudge anyone any money they actually made, or the Nobel Prize. But,
              please, the day the strike at the shipyard was over, he did not return home to
              the small apartment in the Stogi/Przerobka district. He went on to live in
              a 'penthouse'-3 connected apartments occupying a full floor in Zaspa district.
              Well, I grew up in the Stogi district-an apartment district mostly occupied by
              shipyard workers and their families. Many of them had many kids. And although
              my parents were in no way connected with the shipyard, nor did we have many
              kids in my household-I went to school with a boy from a family of 12 kids, a
              shipyard electrician father, living in a 3 room apartment. He, too, participated
              in the strike, like all other workers. Guess what--nothing changed for them.
              I think that if you are fighting for equality and cite examples of others
              abusing the system, do not abuse it yourself. Again, I am citing the 'milder'
              examples here, and do not minimize any of what the movement has done to
              overturn communism.
              • kylie1 Re: 'Solidarity' 25 years on. 04.08.05, 19:28
                Hi Asia,

                I don't really see it the same way, Asia. The guy deserves a lot more than just
                a penthouse. He stood up to Kremlin and all its no-brains pompous politicians-
                he practically got all those guys to their knees...just like that. He was smart
                and HE ran the show like nobody else could.
                The changes for all others will take time. Nothing happens overnight. Communism
                put Poland behind other countries by so many years. It will take years
                to "recover" but the country is doing really good. Sure, change can be scary
                and challenging but at least he gave Poland a chance for a brighter future. For
                the first time there IS a light at the end of the tunnel...It feels good!!!

                smile
      • nasza_maggie Re: 'Solidarity' 25 years on. 04.08.05, 12:56
        but Wałęsa is only a
        > hero for people that don't know what he's been up to for the past 20 years.


        and what is that exactly, in your opinion?
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