would anyone like to answer this?

16.11.05, 11:05
forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=517&w=32037985&a=32037985
thx smile
    • usenetposts Re: would anyone like to answer this? 16.11.05, 12:00

      nasza_maggie napisała:

      > forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=517&w=32037985&a=32037985
      > thx smile

      This is what I wrote in reply:

      Our "c/g" dichotomy is pretty much the same as that of other languages which
      have ex-Latin loanstock. The "soft" vowels e, i and y used as a vowel cause a
      preceding "c" to be pronounced like an 's' and 'g' to be pronounced as a 'j'.

      Incidentally, the "soft" vowels are also known as "front" vowels because they
      are enunciated more closer to the front of the mouth.

      Hard positions, such as the final position, and followed by back
      vowels 'a', 'o' and 'u', retain the default pronunciation, as originally found
      in Latin prior to the 3rd Century. If someone says Honda "Kivic", then they are
      aping Cicero, who would have called himself "Kickero", by the way, although I
      should think he didn't drive a Honda.

      The way in which the soft 'c' and 'g' started to differentiate in the Vulgate
      differed depending on where you were. In French, the 'c' became an 's', in
      Castillian Spanish a "th" sound (although Latin American Spanish also has
      an "s" sound). Italian and Romanian have a "ch" sound. Likewise the soft "g"
      became a "zh" sound in French, a "h" in Castillian, and like the English "j"
      sound in Italian, which has no native use for "j" at all.

      English followed the French over the soft "c", but the Italian over the
      soft "g".

      Now in words of a Germanic or other non-Latin origin, you can find exceptions
      to these rules. For instance, "Get" is a hard 'g', but "guest" which is also
      hard, needs a "u" in it to stop it colliding with the 'j' sound of "gesture".

      The barrier letter which gets you back to a hard pronunciation of 'c' and 'g'
      when followed by a soft vowel also differs from language to language. Some
      times a "u" is used as in French "guerre", In Spanish to pronounce "kiosk" they
      needed to default to "quiosque". In Italian and Romanian 'h' is used, as
      in "Gheorghiou", "Chipul", Lamborghini, amiche, etc.

      English followed the French model here on the 'g' and used its abundant 'k' for
      the c words. "Ch" in any event is taken, as it was already used for the Saxon
      words in soft 'K' that were in the language already prior to the mixing in of
      Norman French. Words in "Ch" are usually Germanic cognates such as Church
      (Kirche) to etch (aetzen) etc. In some cases we get pairs such as "skirt"
      and "shirt" (it was "schirt" but "s" plus "ch" became "sh") "skip"
      and "ship", "Kirk" and "church" where the Viking word retains the "k" sound,
      and the Saxon word doesn't.

      "coupon" and "cheap" both come from the same root as German "kaufen", but the
      word "cheap" was softened, as it was followed by a front vowel, and "coupon"
      wasn't as it was followed by a back vowel.

      Hope that explains matters.
      • russh Re: would anyone like to answer this? 16.11.05, 14:07
        Couldn't have expressed it better (even if I tried).

        Dave, you are beginning to fascinate me. Linguist, Accountant (and generally the
        two don't go together) and what else?

        Can't wait to meet.
        • nasza_maggie Re: would anyone like to answer this? 16.11.05, 16:56
          fantastic, thanks so muchsmile
        • usenetposts Re: would anyone like to answer this? 18.11.05, 14:50
          russh napisał:

          > Couldn't have expressed it better (even if I tried).
          >
          > Dave, you are beginning to fascinate me. Linguist, Accountant (and generally
          th
          > e
          > two don't go together) and what else?

          Thanks for the compliment. I just find the subject of interest, so that's why I
          retained a bit about it.

          > Can't wait to meet.

          It'll be fun, I can tell.
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