Microbrewery

10.12.05, 13:16
Hi all,

I'm very interested in setting up a Micro-Brewery on my farm in addition to
agro-tourism here. Does anybody know a good 'source' of equipment for such an
undertaking, either in Poland or a neighboring country. Germany or Czech
Republic are already well established brewery countries, so I'm sure there
must be wholesalers there. Thanks!

Cheers,

Eugene
Siemiechów, Poland
www.geocities.com/ejmarkow/siemiechow
    • usenetposts Re: Microbrewery 10.12.05, 22:56
      There are two people you need to talk two, one is the guy who set up the
      microbrewery "Soma" in Warsaw, which went down the tubes, and the other is the
      former Finance Director of one of the Breweries, who spent several years
      challening the customs office and the tax office about the excise duties on low
      %age beer products.

      If your ambitions survive the tales of these two gents, both of whom happen to
      be contacts of mine in good standing, then you will probably succeed. But they
      will give you and idea of what you are up against when you start a
      microbrewery, from two different aspects.
      • ejmarkow Re: Microbrewery 11.12.05, 00:28
        Hi Dave,

        Why would beer produced in a Microbrewery be considered to be a 'low % beer
        product'? Most beers in Poland contain an average 5.5% alcohol content, and my
        beer would have the same. Also, why should the customs office be involved in
        something that is produced within Poland, on my property? Unless, of course, I
        plan to export the beer, which is highly unlikely. The advantage I have of
        doing this on my property is that I do own a farm, and the Microbrewery process
        will become part of the Agro-Tourism aspect of it. So, I am aware, there are
        many legalities that must be questioned before such a task is undertaken.
        Thanks for your reply and input!

        Cheers,
        Eugene
        Siemiechów, Poland
        www.geocities.com/ejmarkow/siemiechow
        • usenetposts Re: Microbrewery 11.12.05, 02:26
          ejmarkow napisał:

          > Hi Dave,
          >
          > Why would beer produced in a Microbrewery be considered to be a 'low % beer
          > product'? Most beers in Poland contain an average 5.5% alcohol content, and
          my
          > beer would have the same.

          Well, good luck, but most of the microbrewery beer I have tasted has not been
          up at 5,5.

          >Also, why should the customs office be involved in
          > something that is produced within Poland, on my property?

          Because of excise duty, that's why. And all the more if you plan on having a
          normal alcohol content beer.

          The customs office are interested in that whether you export it or not.

          And it is not a light matter to produce alcohol and not properly account for
          the excise duty. That's putting it mildly. No pun intended.

          > Unless, of course, I
          > plan to export the beer, which is highly unlikely. The advantage I have of
          > doing this on my property is that I do own a farm, and the Microbrewery
          process
          >
          > will become part of the Agro-Tourism aspect of it. So, I am aware, there are
          > many legalities that must be questioned before such a task is undertaken.
          > Thanks for your reply and input!
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Eugene
          > Siemiechów, Poland
          > www.geocities.com/ejmarkow/siemiechow

          Just let me know if you want to get serious about it and then I'll arrange for
          you to talk to some people who can help.
        • kylie1 Re: Microbrewery 11.12.05, 08:01
          Hi Eugene,

          I have also found something on the Internet and perhaps you are way ahead of me
          on that but nevertheless here it is:

          www.spiz.pl/eng/pl.htm
          Mr Spiz lives in Wroclaw and runs his own microbrewery. I am guessing his beer
          is very popular and has a lot of "zing" to it ( from pale to ale and everything
          in between...yum!) They say it's as good, if not better, than the Belgian beer.
          You will find his phone # and his e-mail address in there as well.
          Perhaps you could give it a try and see if he can give you some advice or a few
          handy tips...

          Good Luck!

          smile

          PS
          By the way, Polish beer is selling for almost $3 a bottle in Canada (Zywiec
          that is) and is considered very good among the beer connoisseurs. I don't mind
          a cold beer myself - one served in a nice frosty mug. Good stuff!
          • ejmarkow Re: Microbrewery 11.12.05, 11:51
            Hi Dave and Kylie,

            First, Dave, like you, I am also an accountant (B.S and M.B.A.) and realize the
            precise tax consequences and regulatory procedures of having a businesse
            worldwide, and one thing, I don't plan to export my beer. The tax, regulatory,
            and accounting matters are water under the bridge for me, and I know the law
            quite well. I appreciate your comments, however, you seem way to much on the
            pessimistic side of things, as if, a miracle is needed to run a successful
            microbrewery or business here in Poland. As Kylie has presented, it is possible
            to have a successful microbrewery in Poland and prosper as well. My original
            question wasn't about taxes, nor my chance of success. Now, back to my original
            question, who knows of any equipment suppliers? I will without doubt contact
            the microbrewery in Wroclaw. Thanks Kylie!

            Cheers,

            Eugene
            Siemiechów, Poland
            www.geocities.com/ejmarkow/siemiechow
            • usenetposts Re: Microbrewery 12.12.05, 02:11
              Eugene.

              I am talking to you about excise duty, you respond wholly irrelevantly that you
              are not going to export your beer - this is of no relevance whatsoever to the
              issue of excise duty on beer, and that is very basic tax knowledge - and then
              you call yourself an accountant.

              A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

              Neither a BS nor an MBA constitute membership of the accountancy profession, by
              the way, it's my duty to tell you.

              Still you just go ahead and buy the stuff, hey it's your money.
              • ejmarkow Re: Microbrewery 12.12.05, 09:37
                Dave,

                You have a more severe problem than the fact you assume to be a professional
                financial advisor or even accountant. Please, first learn to read. It's obvious
                as anyone can see that my initial inquiry related to the acquisition of
                microbrewery equipment, not the risk or tax issue involved. You irrelevantly
                and arrogantly pointed out, and ignoring my original question, the slim
                probability of survival in the microbrewery business coupled with excise taxes.
                As an investor, I had long before considered such risks involved in this
                undertaking and taxes as well, so I didn't need someone standing on their
                pedestal with such a pessmistic outlook to lecture me on those facts. Why
                didn't you just answer the original question? Are you hoping to lure additional
                clients by trying to prove your knowledge in the field? Dave, arrogance,
                questionable financial knowledge and poor marketing on behalf of yourself is
                really something you must improve on. It is my duty to inform you of this.


                Cheers,

                Eugene
                Siemiechów, Poland
                www.geocities.com/ejmarkow/siemiechow
                • usenetposts Re: Microbrewery 12.12.05, 15:26
                  If you were so sure of yourself, then why were you offended and waving your MBA
                  in my face (which might if you were lucky get you off one or two of the earlier
                  exams you have to pass to become a public accountant) when I pointed out the
                  difficulties?

                  I can add whatever comments I like to a thread, as can any others. You don't
                  have the right to say "here is my question, all answers must be on topic, and
                  nobody can start up any discussion over it", who the hell do you think you are
                  to say that in a forum?

                  I'll tell you who you are, you're someone who wanted to buy equipment for
                  making beer who thought that if he didn't export it there wouldn't be any
                  excise duty. So much came plainly out of the discussion. And instead of
                  thanking me for pointing out for free what normally you'd have had to pay an
                  advisor to tell you, you call me arrogant. Well pardon me for breathing!

                  Why don't you just go the whole hog and buy yourself a couple of whiskey stills
                  into the bargain? Go ahead, you can have yourself a thriving liquor factory
                  and "it'll all be tax free, because I'm not exporting it!". Sheesh!

                  Do I want more clients? Yes. Is that bad? No. Do I want more who make foolish
                  decisions and then come to me pouting and wailing that they are in trouble with
                  the tax office for not asking about something before they did it? I get quite
                  enough of those already, thanks.
                  • firemouse Excise tax 12.12.05, 16:43
                    It could be a wrong idea to write anything here where tensions are up to army
                    mobilization stage, but well. I have bad day anyway.

                    I am not going to wave any of my letters (educational that is) in anyone face
                    but I simply recommend to read art. 13 of Excise Duty Act before getting into
                    any further discussion with Dave. And "sorry, I've been wrong" would be nice too.

                    FM
                  • ejmarkow Re: Microbrewery 12.12.05, 18:07
                    Dave,

                    "Waving" my MBA in your face? Very nice! What do you call your introduction on
                    this thread, "I'm an accountant, living in Warsaw, with about 11 years general
                    practice in this country, doing mainly audits, tax advice, business valuations,
                    and our company also does books for start-up businesses."? I wouldn't say you
                    are waving or bragging, just letting people know who you are, just as I was
                    presenting my background like any other individual. Tell me, when somebody
                    gives you their business card and it reads, Mr. John Smith, MBA, or MD, or CPA,
                    or Attorney at Law, or PHD...do you consider those people to be waving their
                    credentials in your face? Then, you make the assumption I hadn't passed my CPA
                    exam without even asking. Well, I passed the CPA exam in New York State in
                    1988, auditing, Practice, Theory, and Business Law - all four parts in two
                    sittings...and I'm not waving this fact in your face either, only correcting
                    your judgement. I worked in Tax and Auditing in Public Accounting, and then in
                    International Finance for two large investment banks in New York City as well.
                    Dave, it seems you jump to conclusions trying to analyze who people are ("I'll
                    tell you who you are"). That is rather, again, arrogant. Perhaps you should
                    question yourself, "who you are"? You quoted one section of the tax law on beer
                    production, and then you automatically consider yourself an authority on the
                    subject. Tell me, why didn't your tax advice save your friends (or clients ?)
                    microbrewery businesses from their unfortunate fate of going belly up? No
                    offence taken Dave, just don't make irrational assumptions about who people
                    are, and what somebody's qualifications are. I'm sure you are very good in what
                    you do, and so am I.

                    Cheers,

                    Eugene
                    Siemiechów, Poland
                    www.geocities.com/ejmarkow/siemiechow


                    • usenetposts Re: Microbrewery 14.12.05, 01:18
                      Eugene wrote:

                      >Tell me, why didn't your tax advice save your friends (or clients ?)
                      > microbrewery businesses from their unfortunate fate of going belly up?

                      Because they came too late to see us, that's why.

                      Had we advised, we probably have been able to help them.

                      It's a recurring leitmotif in my career that people come and see me when things
                      have already gone wrong sometimes. And then you cannot always just wave a magic
                      wand and make the problems go away.

                      And that, basically, was the reason for my kindly concern.

                      But since you are sure you are properly briefed, you go ahead and have fun with
                      it.

                      At the end of the day, a business which enthuses the businessman is worth more
                      than one that he just does to earn a crust.
    • widmon Re: Microbrewery 12.12.05, 23:23
      Hi!!!
      I'm not shoor what exactly do you want to do.
      do you want to open a micro-brewery or just make yourself some beer for your guests?? but whatever you want to do i think that you will find people who can help you on this forum: www.browamator.pl this is a site where amateur brewerists exchange their experiences.
      good luck!!!
      • kylie1 Re: Microbrewery 13.12.05, 00:11
        I don't know anything about beer making (except how to down it when it's nice
        and ready - and frankly that skill can AlWAYS use some honing) but to me it
        sure looks like a good starting point for a new business smile

        I have also found a couple of websites that I hope you will look into a little
        deeper, Eugene. (It's all Chinese to me!)

        biowin.pl/
        browar.biz/
        www.muntons.pl/
        www.wes.com.pl/
        books:

        Zdzisław T. Nowicki, 1997, Domowe piwa, cydry, wina, nalewki, likiery, kremy,
        wyd. Galion Gdynia i BEJ Service Warszawa, ISBN 83-86948-03-05

        Ziemowit Fałat, 2004, Jak warzyć piwo. Praktyczny poradnik krok po kroku, wyd.
        Polskie Browary, Strzyżów, ISBN 83-921108-0-3

        Grzegorz Sieczkowski, 2005, Piwo klasztorne i domowe, wyd. Baobab, Warszawa,
        ISBN 83-89642-07-7


        smile

      • ejmarkow Re: Microbrewery 14.12.05, 16:55
        Widman / Kylie,

        Thank you for the informative links. I would like to brew beer for guests and
        anyone else that wishes to visit the pub here. So, good brewery equipment will
        surely be required. To include home made brew in addition to agro-touristic
        activities will keep the guests very busy. The more activities and products to
        offer, the better because nobody will become bored. Thanks again.

        Cheers,

        Eugene
        Siemiechów, Poland
        www.geocities.com/ejmarkow/siemiechow
        • varsovian Re: Microbrewery 15.12.05, 13:40
          Eugene,
          I really like your website.
          Beer, eh?
          Sounds good.
          And as we should all be told - beer is better for you than milk.
          Comparison
          Beer has:
          lower fat, higher fibre, lower sodium, no cholesterol and fewer calories ...
          and doesn't cause prostate cancer.
          • varsovian Re: Microbrewery 21.12.05, 16:34
            I'm only writing this message so Eugene gets back to the top of the pile!
            • usenetposts Re: Microbrewery 21.12.05, 20:54
              varsovian napisał:

              > I'm only writing this message so Eugene gets back to the top of the pile!

              I sometimes use that technique too.
        • mk7 Re: Microbrewery 03.02.06, 08:07
          I think that's the company you,re looking for:
          KATES from Olsztyn www.kates.com.pl/eng_browary.html
          You can also check here
          www.pstrading.cz/index.php?show=kontakty&menu=kontakty&submenu_leve=kontakty_01a
          If you want to know more about microbreweries ask at the browar.biz forum,
          couple of us are brewing at home and speaks English - better than mesmile
    • dobosz4u Re: Microbrewery 04.02.06, 03:37
      Eugene.
      Great idea, just do it, don't listen to Polish, by nature they will find
      zillions of reason to not make any movements
      I'was microbrewing in California - own beer is much better than any other, You
      will have plenty of returning customers - pls write when and I'll visit
      Siemiechow
      jan
      • wojomir Re: Microbrewery 05.02.06, 10:24
        www.ckbrowar.krakow.pl
    • bartas83 Re: Microbrewery 05.02.06, 20:46
      Theres a brewery in Poznan. Its called Brovaria- a fancy restaurant on the Old Market Square. They brew beer and there's also a hotel and a restaurant. delicious beer.
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