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Tacky dressed church lady AKA Queen Elizabeth

14.01.06, 08:43
This is no brainer!

> bartis_ervin napisał:

> > You, writing in US that your heart is in
> > Poland, for me at least, it is quite strange. There are ways to make your
> > body and heart be in the same place.


Waldek1610 napisal;

> If Frederic Chopin could have done otherwise, so can I!


Usetnetpost napisal:

>>> Have you ever been to the Church where his heart is?
>>> Incidentally, the Polish Bishops applied at the Vatican to have the heart
>>> of JPII excoriated and sent off Chopin-like to Krakow.
>>> The Western European cardinals were all sort of looking at each other
>>> with a look that said "bloody Polish barbarians, are they in the same
>>> Church as us?", and said "no".

And you dare to say that, as the subject of an excomunicated King Henry VIII?
Perheaps you should now apply to rejoin the Catholic Church since as you know
the tacky dressed church lady also know as British Queen Elizabeth has tree
sons and the oldest one prince Charles has two sons of his own. So why not
get in line with the rest of Traditionally Catholic Europe?

If English King can leave Catholic church just because because he had problem
with too many wifes and no male offspring to inherit the throne, why can't
Poles bury JPII heart in Cracow Cathedral? I guess getting a heart out of the
corpse to bury it somewhere else is not much different from using it for
transplant or creamating the corpse all together?
Obserwuj wątek
    • usenetposts Re: Tacky dressed church lady is at least married 14.01.06, 11:25
      What the Roman Catholics didn't understand is, that when they excommunicated
      the Protestants they were excommunicating themselves at the same time.

      We are not reapplying to join Rome, but if Papa Ratzi wants us back like he
      says he does, then it will be down to him to show some reforms as a proper
      penance for the crimes of the Inquisition against our brothers.

      Getting rid of the greedy political doctrine of the celibacy of priests would
      be a good start. God doesn't want priests to be celibate.

      The Bible calls it "a doctrine of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1-3). It took place as
      late as the 12th century, as a way to protect the church's money from
      inheritors. It has no place in today's world of pension funds and regulated
      investments. It is merely a sadistic piece of religious mindforking and a
      heinous, unnecessary hurdle in the service of God.

      While your priests and nuns are being refused their right to marry, there is no
      dialogue between me and Rome. Let them get their human rights record sorted
      out, and allow their priests and nuns to marry like it says in the United
      Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. After that there is still a
      great deal of ground to cover, but at least it would be a start, proving they
      are willing to listen.

      If China forbade its citizens to marry, we wouldn't be talking to them, so why
      should Protestants be talking to the authorities of Rome?

      I don't say not talk to Catholics as individual people - they're the victims in
      all of this, and we should love them.
      • missus.c Re: Tacky dressed church lady is at least married 14.01.06, 12:37
        I won't get into the whole catholic-protestant argument - as to me it really
        doesn't exist. Altough the Bishop of Cantebury was non too pleased about gay
        weddings, wasn't he?

        I'm not too bothered about what religion the British are and why they are
        Protestant or the whole history. It IS history.
        It is an never ending debate which is not so important in today's news anyway.
        Unless we want to talk about Belfast and the IRA. But we don't.

        Any religious discussion will end in chaos.
        Dave, don't get drawn into provocation with someone who isn't open to reason...

        But to the point.
        What is wrong with what the Queen wears? (As it seems that is the whole point
        of another one of Waldos clever threads). I happen to like what she wears, it
        gives me a smile and I think many people wait with great anticipation with what
        colour scheme she has come up withsmile It's always a nice surprise as most
        diplomats are so predictable with what they wear. Especially the new Bolivian
        president Evo Morales, who is somewhat of a Lech Walesa of South America but
        refuses to wear a suit!

        Her wardrobe is as much of an instituion as she issmile

      • waldek1610 Protestants pilgrimige to........The Disney Land!? 15.01.06, 06:55
        This is not a joke, I saw it on Court TV, and they didn't seem even to notice
        a problem...The subject of deliberation of cort were the "poor" Baptists that
        didn't get a discount at the park and complained about the traffic in
        Florida....

        First they suppose to go to Lourdes, Fatima or Sanctuary of Santa Maria of
        Guadelupe in Mexico...and NOT the Disney Land for the Christ sake!

        Secondly, they suppose to go on foot, not to sit their fat asses in the "church
        bus" and complain about the traffic....


        usenetposts napisał:

        > What the Roman Catholics didn't understand is, that when they excommunicated
        > the Protestants they were excommunicating themselves at the same time.


        I expected to hear that from you. Are you implying that Protestatnts would
        validate Roman Catholic church? It's true a lot of Anglo-Saxon countries are
        protestant...but don't mix politics with religion, just because protestants
        live in the "West" it doesn't automatically makes them better then Catholics.


        > We are not reapplying to join Rome, but if Papa Ratzi wants us back like he
        > says he does, then it will be down to him to show some reforms as a proper
        > penance for the crimes of the Inquisition against our brothers.


        Catholic Church is about tradition and balance and it is NOT it's function to
        adjust to decayed western society. What do you expect Vatican to let everybody
        fuck like rubbits, because that is in "fashion" right now?


        > Getting rid of the greedy political doctrine of the celibacy of priests would
        > be a good start. God doesn't want priests to be celibate.

        But what if I need a priest at the Church, and he's not there because he's home
        doing his wife?


        > While your priests and nuns are being refused their right to marry, there is
        no
        >
        > dialogue between me and Rome. Let them get their human rights record sorted
        > out, and allow their priests and nuns to marry like it says in the United
        > Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. After that there is still a
        > great deal of ground to cover, but at least it would be a start, proving they
        > are willing to listen.

        Why force nuns and priest to have sex if the great majority of them don't want
        it. What is ironic that calls for getting rid of Cellibacy in the Catholic
        Church is not brough up by nuns and priests but...by different liberals, gay
        and lesbian societies, feminists.

        Why in the modern world, there's forces that want chaos and no rules at all?
        Ary you really going to be happier if nuns marry or you can marry your brother?
        Is that your vision of the perfect World?



        > If China forbade its citizens to marry, we wouldn't be talking to them, so
        why
        > should Protestants be talking to the authorities of Rome?
        >
        > I don't say not talk to Catholics as individual people - they're the victims
        in
        >
        > all of this, and we should love them.

        Really? I don't feel like a victim at all, rather I wonder what the they going
        to come up with next? So far you got gay protestant bishop, woman pastors, one
        sexs marriages....Is marrying monkeys next in line?
      • waldek1610 Did I dared to ask invoncenient question again? 15.01.06, 07:15
        ..instead of affirming the morally and politically corrupt West?


        russh napisał:

        > Wow, compared with Chopin now! Where are we going to end up?

        Exactly! I would like to know that. I would hope that you offered me answers
        why is Protestant church so in line with gays, lesbians, feminists and breaking
        whatever rules of moderation and ballance that are left?

        PS. Last time when I asked the straightfoward question; "Why does the west
        preferes barbaric nation of Germany, over bicon of liberty- Poland?" Just
        because Germany is rich and Poland is not? You resorted to tactics meant to
        discredit me, instead of offering me explanation why the Old EU worships money
        and "German state impersonifies it", and loaths ideals such as freedom or
        independence, the values impersonified by Poland.
          • waldek1610 Re: Did I dared to ask invoncenient question agai 15.01.06, 08:42
            russh napisał:

            > It would seem to me that gays & lesbians have as much right to exist, and be
            > recognised, as anyone else. If a church does not recognise it, it is bigoted.


            Can you tell diffence between "recognitising that gay people exist"
            and "promoting their livestyles"?
            Just because Nazis existed is it the reason to promote their ideals?
            Homosexualism is the sickness and it has to be treated as such.

            Did you believe that the fact that mans and womans sexual organs were made the
            way to compliment and fit each other so perfectly is just the coinsidence? No,
            women are ment to fuck men and vice versa.

            Males butt is not meant to be fucked, but if two guys want live together thats
            fine by me, but what it will lead to? Is such union of two man (or two women)
            productive? Marriage has responsibilities such as procreation and raising
            children, it was not established so two men can live out their derailed sexual
            perversions.

            What is wrong with having sex and mating with oposite sex?




            > What rules of moderation are you talking about?
            >
            > Re the older question; it makes no sense, so I have not answered it.

            I asked why is Protestant Church so in line with gays, lesbians, feminists and
            other extremist, why does it want to brake all rules of moderation and balanced
            existance? Is that plain enough for you?

            Why change something that is good? I know you are going to say I'm a bigot
            because I don't embrace gay people, but do you really think that gays
            signify "balance and moderation"??? If you want to leave in such an "open
            minded" world, would you accept that instead of getting a steak at the
            restaurant you wuold get a rat on the plate? You just said that you are so open
            minded and you accept changes.....
              • waldek1610 Re: Did I dared to ask invoncenient question agai 15.01.06, 09:14
                So, being normal is now considered a problem? Man what ever happen to you
                people?

                You are so "politically correct", and love all perverts, but why does not your
                political correctness tells you to embrace Eastern European ideals such as;
                Catholic religion, Slavic culture? Are we worse than gays and lesbians?
                • missus.c Re: Did I dared to ask invoncenient question agai 15.01.06, 12:42
                  waldek1610 napisał:

                  > So, being normal is now considered a problem? Man what ever happen to you
                  > people?

                  US people? So you are superhuman?
                  >
                  > You are so "politically correct", and love all perverts, but why does not
                  your
                  > political correctness tells you to embrace Eastern European ideals such as;
                  > Catholic religion, Slavic culture? Are we worse than gays and lesbians?

                  No, but many Slavs and Catholics are gay and lesbian. Go figure.
                  • waldek1610 Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jungle" 16.01.06, 11:18
                    missus.c napisała:

                    > waldek1610 napisał:
                    >
                    > > So, being normal is now considered a problem? Man what ever happen to you
                    > > people?


                    > US people? So you are superhuman?

                    No, ...you people. Why do you think I'm a superhuman?

                    > > You are so "politically correct", and love all perverts, but why does not
                    > > your political correctness tells you to embrace Eastern European ideals
                    > > such as; Catholic religion, Slavic culture? Are we worse than gays and
                    > > lesbians?


                    > No, but many Slavs and Catholics are gay and lesbian. Go figure.

                    How much? 5 or 50%? Or is it entirely your wishfull thinking? Can't you
                    understand that just because the gay and lesbian trend might be "En Vouge" in
                    western Europe...it might never really take a root in central and eastern
                    Europe?

                    Please go to your local Catholic Church in your parish, after the Sunday Mass
                    and ask entire congregation; "Drodzy bracia i siostry, Ilu mamy dzisaj braci
                    pedalow i siostr lezbijek tutaj zgromadzonych?"

                    I'm sure that you're going to impress everybody in the Church....What? are you
                    going to call me a bigot now? Because I dared to point out simple truth?
                    Perheaps the people at the Sunday's Mass not going to be impressed at all.
                    Wait, even if you consider that not every Catholic Pole is actively practising
                    their faith, the chances are at least half of all catholics are at the Holly
                    Mass on Sunday...which makes it about 20 milion people.

                    Perheaps now you're going to try convincing me that 20 milion practising
                    Catholic Poles are bigots because they oppose homosexualism? What else you are
                    going to make me believe; that majority of Poles spend their time off tending
                    to their olive and palm orchards?
                    • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 16.01.06, 14:07
                      waldek1610 napisał:

                      > missus.c napisała:
                      >
                      > > waldek1610 napisał:
                      > >
                      > > > So, being normal is now considered a problem? Man what ever happen
                      > to you
                      > > > people?
                      >
                      >
                      > > US people? So you are superhuman?
                      >
                      > No, ...you people. Why do you think I'm a superhuman?
                      >
                      > > > You are so "politically correct", and love all perverts, but why do
                      > es not
                      > > > your political correctness tells you to embrace Eastern European id
                      > eals
                      > > > such as; Catholic religion, Slavic culture? Are we worse than gays
                      > and
                      > > > lesbians?
                      >
                      >
                      > > No, but many Slavs and Catholics are gay and lesbian. Go figure.
                      >
                      > How much? 5 or 50%? Or is it entirely your wishfull thinking? Can't you
                      > understand that just because the gay and lesbian trend might be "En Vouge" in
                      > western Europe...it might never really take a root in central and eastern
                      > Europe?

                      I believe that homosexuality has been in existance since evolution began,
                      although it was probably the church, and especially the Catholic church that
                      tried to bury it, as it did not fit in with their picture of normality, as, some
                      time in the past, left-handed people didn't.


                      >
                      > Please go to your local Catholic Church in your parish, after the Sunday Mass
                      > and ask entire congregation; "Drodzy bracia i siostry, Ilu mamy dzisaj braci
                      > pedalow i siostr lezbijek tutaj zgromadzonych?"

                      No thank you.

                      >
                      > I'm sure that you're going to impress everybody in the Church....What? are you
                      > going to call me a bigot now?

                      Yes

                      >Because I dared to point out simple truth?

                      What truth? I haven't seen any.

                      > Perheaps the people at the Sunday's Mass not going to be impressed at all.
                      > Wait, even if you consider that not every Catholic Pole is actively practising
                      > their faith, the chances are at least half of all catholics are at the Holly
                      > Mass on Sunday...which makes it about 20 milion people.

                      That are bigoted, or frightened, or just plain ignorant.

                      >
                      > Perheaps now you're going to try convincing me that 20 milion practising
                      > Catholic Poles are bigots because they oppose homosexualism? What else you are
                      > going to make me believe; that majority of Poles spend their time off tending
                      > to their olive and palm orchards?
                      • ianek70 Polish gay icons? No comment. 17.01.06, 14:35
                        russh napisał:

                        > waldek1610 napisał:

                        > > Perheaps now you're going to try convincing me that 20 milion practising
                        > > Catholic Poles are bigots because they oppose homosexualism?

                        What percentage of statues in Poland have Freddy Mercury moustaches?
                      • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 19.01.06, 07:51
                        russh napisał:

                        > waldek1610 napisał:

                        > > Perheaps the people at the Sunday's Mass not going to be impressed at all
                        > .
                        > > Wait, even if you consider that not every Catholic Pole is actively pract
                        > ising
                        > > their faith, the chances are at least half of all catholics are at the Ho
                        > lly
                        > > Mass on Sunday...which makes it about 20 milion people.


                        > That are bigoted, or frightened, or just plain ignorant.

                        Acutally its Western Europeans that are frighten into believing that
                        homosexualism is normal. Just look at Noble Prize Institute and various EU
                        institution...its seems that the whole idea behind its existence is to force
                        homosexualism onto the heterosexual majority.

                        For this reason, all Noble Prize winners have to be pro-choice, pro-gay and ant-
                        - religion. I wonder why anybody still values this institution at all...
                        • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 19.01.06, 10:59
                          > Acutally its Western Europeans that are frighten into believing that
                          > homosexualism is normal. Just look at Noble Prize Institute and various EU
                          > institution...its seems that the whole idea behind its existence is to force
                          > homosexualism onto the heterosexual majority.
                          >
                          > For this reason, all Noble Prize winners have to be pro-choice, pro-gay and ant
                          > - religion. I wonder why anybody still values this institution at all...

                          I don't think that anybody is being frightened into anything. It's just a
                          realisation that it exists, that it is natural (for homosexuals) and that there
                          is no reason to discrimnate against it (homosexuality). It is society awakening.

                          Why do you think that the Nobel & other EU institutions are in existance to
                          force homosexuality onto the hetrosexual majority?
                          • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 19.01.06, 12:28
                            russh napisał:

                            > > Acutally its Western Europeans that are frighten into believing that
                            > > homosexualism is normal. Just look at Noble Prize Institute and various E
                            > U
                            > > institution...its seems that the whole idea behind its existence is to fo
                            > rce
                            > > homosexualism onto the heterosexual majority.
                            > >
                            > > For this reason, all Noble Prize winners have to be pro-choice, pro-gay a
                            > nd ant
                            > > - religion. I wonder why anybody still values this institution at all...
                            >
                            > I don't think that anybody is being frightened into anything. It's just a
                            > realisation that it exists, that it is natural (for homosexuals) and that
                            there
                            > is no reason to discrimnate against it (homosexuality). It is society
                            awakening
                            > .
                            >
                            > Why do you think that the Nobel & other EU institutions are in existance to
                            > force homosexuality onto the hetrosexual majority?


                            Just look up the names and affiliations of the Noble Prize winers, espesially
                            those for "Peace" and "sciences". They all seem to be feminists, liberals,
                            socialists, abortion specialist, gens and bio ingineers... even gay and
                            lesbians themselves.

                            For the save reasons such persons as John Paul II and George W. Bush didn't get
                            the prize, although they were nominated...But seriously such as persons as the
                            previous Pope don't need a prize anyways, it's like you were judging God
                            himself....
                            • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 19.01.06, 13:13
                              Just look up the names and affiliations of the Noble Prize winers, espesially
                              > those for "Peace" and "sciences". They all seem to be feminists, liberals,
                              > socialists, abortion specialist, gens and bio ingineers... even gay and
                              > lesbians themselves.

                              So if they were all Catholic it would be ok?

                              You say 'seem to be', so you don't know.

                              'Even gay & lesbians themselves' - in my world, they are entitled to the same
                              rights as heterosexuals (with the possible exception of adoption), in yours they
                              are unnatural or sinners. This is the crux of our disagreement, and I fear that
                              neither of us will change out mind.
                              • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 06:19
                                russh napisał:

                                > Just look up the names and affiliations of the Noble Prize winers, espesially
                                > > those for "Peace" and "sciences". They all seem to be feminists, liberals
                                > ,
                                > > socialists, abortion specialist, gens and bio ingineers... even gay and
                                > > lesbians themselves.
                                >
                                > So if they were all Catholic it would be ok?

                                No, that's not the point....What I'm saying is that if a person identifies
                                itself as a good catholic..he or she can forget about getting a Noble
                                Prize..That's why the Pope didn't get the peace prize because of course church
                                is against abortion, gay marriages etc, and the pro-gay and pro-choice Noble
                                Prize Institute is always more than glad to punish such "element"..

                                > You say 'seem to be', so you don't know.

                                I'm not a journalist, nor the historian so I don't maintain statistics, but
                                everybody can sense that for Nobel Prize.."Catholics and Conservatives need not
                                apply"...

                                > 'Even gay & lesbians themselves' - in my world, they are entitled to the same
                                > rights as heterosexuals (with the possible exception of adoption), in yours
                                the
                                > y
                                > are unnatural or sinners. This is the crux of our disagreement, and I fear
                                that
                                > neither of us will change out mind.

                                If today gay and homosexuals is standard, I fear to see the future? Maybe the
                                pedofiles or zoofiles, or maybe necromaniacs?
                                • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 06:35
                                  > No, that's not the point....What I'm saying is that if a person identifies
                                  > itself as a good catholic..he or she can forget about getting a Noble
                                  > Prize..That's why the Pope didn't get the peace prize because of course church
                                  > is against abortion, gay marriages etc, and the pro-gay and pro-choice Noble
                                  > Prize Institute is always more than glad to punish such "element"..
                                  >
                                  > > You say 'seem to be', so you don't know.
                                  >
                                  > I'm not a journalist, nor the historian so I don't maintain statistics, but
                                  > everybody can sense that for Nobel Prize.."Catholics and Conservatives need not
                                  >
                                  > apply"...

                                  I think you need to look at the winners again. There are all kinds, including
                                  Catholics & conservatives.

                                  Take a look at this: almaz.com/nobel/peace/peace.html

                                  > If today gay and homosexuals is standard, I fear to see the future? Maybe the
                                  > pedofiles or zoofiles, or maybe necromaniacs?

                                  Methinks there is a big difference between homosexuals, who do no harm in
                                  general (in fact they tend to be more peaceful, and their partners are willing)
                                  and the others you mention, especially pedophiles, who tend to do harm to others.

                                    • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 10:27
                                      waldek1610 napisał:

                                      > Perheaps homosexuals are in fact "peacefull", but the way they advertise
                                      their
                                      > lifestiles goes beyond the simple desire to be accepted. It looks like gay
                                      and
                                      > lesbians want to crucify anybody who shows slightest disaproval of gay
                                      > lifestiles.

                                      You do have a point. I have come across people like that.

                                      They throw terms like "homophobia" around, making out people who disagree with
                                      them to have like a mental disorder.

                                      If they ever get in charge they might make it obligatory for every person to
                                      have a homosexual relationship with somebody. If I were you I'd start planning
                                      for that eventuality, as you wouldn't wanna get landed with someone ugly.
                                      • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 10:55
                                        usenetposts napisał:

                                        > waldek1610 napisał:
                                        >
                                        > > Perheaps homosexuals are in fact "peacefull", but the way they advertise
                                        > their
                                        > > lifestiles goes beyond the simple desire to be accepted. It looks like gay
                                        > and
                                        > > lesbians want to crucify anybody who shows slightest disaproval of gay
                                        > > lifestiles.
                                        >
                                        > You do have a point. I have come across people like that.
                                        >
                                        > They throw terms like "homophobia" around, making out people who disagree
                                        with
                                        > them to have like a mental disorder.


                                        Well, but if homosexuality has to be "embraced" by all humanity, why is
                                        Christianity or any religion for that matter discouraged by liberal
                                        governemenst in EU? Shouldn't be Equality? If the can be a Gay Parade where the
                                        lewd and loose...lifestiles are being forced upon streight population, why
                                        there can't be a Christian Parade?


                                        > If they ever get in charge they might make it obligatory for every person to
                                        > have a homosexual relationship with somebody. If I were you I'd start
                                        planning
                                        > for that eventuality, as you wouldn't wanna get landed with someone ugly.


                                        As for me...I wouldn't want to get landed with someone with....penis DERIOD!
                                        (And his good looks would not make a difference for that matter)
                                      • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 11:04
                                        > You do have a point. I have come across people like that.
                                        >
                                        > They throw terms like "homophobia" around, making out people who disagree with
                                        > them to have like a mental disorder

                                        No doubt, but this relates to all activists. Until society has accepted the
                                        'new', then there is a pendulum effect, that returns to normality (hopefully) in
                                        time.

                                        'Female Liberation' has had the same effect, and now, to a great extent, women &
                                        men have lost their balance (in terms of knowing what each others roles are to
                                        be). It will settle in time one hopes.
                                        • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 11:31
                                          russh napisał:

                                          > > You do have a point. I have come across people like that.
                                          > >
                                          > > They throw terms like "homophobia" around, making out people who disagree
                                          > with
                                          > > them to have like a mental disorder
                                          >
                                          > No doubt, but this relates to all activists. Until society has accepted the
                                          > 'new', then there is a pendulum effect, that returns to normality (hopefully)
                                          i
                                          > n
                                          > time.
                                          >
                                          > 'Female Liberation' has had the same effect, and now, to a great extent,
                                          women
                                          > &
                                          > men have lost their balance (in terms of knowing what each others roles are to
                                          > be). It will settle in time one hopes.


                                          I believe that as far as gay people go, sooner or later the society at large
                                          will realize that homosexuals will always come up short on "responsibility"
                                          part, and it will have only rights and few responsibilities as opposed to
                                          straight people...which I'm certain will backfire.
                                            • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 11:45
                                              russh napisał:

                                              > > I believe that as far as gay people go, sooner or later the society at la
                                              > rge
                                              > > will realize that homosexuals will always come up short on "responsibilit
                                              > y"
                                              > > part, and it will have only rights and few responsibilities as opposed to
                                              > > straight people
                                              >
                                              > Why?


                                              Well, because straight (heterosexual) couples usually produce offspring
                                              therefore are considered productive, and on the other hand gay couples have a
                                              choice of adoption, but even that is not required of them. They can draw
                                              benefits from being married, without assuming any responsibilities, that
                                              straight couiples have to bear, such as raising kids and having no options.
                                              • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 11:52
                                                > Well, because straight (heterosexual) couples usually produce offspring
                                                > therefore are considered productive, and on the other hand gay couples have a
                                                > choice of adoption, but even that is not required of them. They can draw
                                                > benefits from being married, without assuming any responsibilities, that
                                                > straight couiples have to bear, such as raising kids and having no options

                                                Surely our only purpose on Earth is not to procreate. There are many other
                                                things that I would term responsible. A friemd of mine in the UK is a gay, a
                                                super guy, and is a very good doctor, working in a hospital and saving lives.
                                                What would you term him?
                                                • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 12:17
                                                  russh napisał:

                                                  > > Well, because straight (heterosexual) couples usually produce offspring
                                                  > > therefore are considered productive, and on the other hand gay couples ha
                                                  > ve a
                                                  > > choice of adoption, but even that is not required of them. They can draw
                                                  > > benefits from being married, without assuming any responsibilities, that
                                                  > > straight couiples have to bear, such as raising kids and having no option
                                                  > s
                                                  >
                                                  > Surely our only purpose on Earth is not to procreate. There are many other
                                                  > things that I would term responsible. A friemd of mine in the UK is a gay, a
                                                  > super guy, and is a very good doctor, working in a hospital and saving lives.
                                                  > What would you term him?


                                                  You have a good point also, but what if the guy was unemployed and living with
                                                  his boyfriend? I'm sure there's people like that. Even if the gay guy is a
                                                  plumber, he's usefull because he can fix someones toilet, but that's not what
                                                  I'm talking about.

                                                  Let's take gay couple without kids and plenty of time to have...sex, for
                                                  example (that's grosse), and a straight couple with 4 kids with plenty of
                                                  responsibilities and little time to enjoy themselves..
                                                  • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 16:25
                                                    > You have a good point also, but what if the guy was unemployed and living with
                                                    > his boyfriend? I'm sure there's people like that. Even if the gay guy is a
                                                    > plumber, he's usefull because he can fix someones toilet, but that's not what
                                                    > I'm talking about.
                                                    >
                                                    > Let's take gay couple without kids and plenty of time to have...sex, for
                                                    > example (that's grosse), and a straight couple with 4 kids with plenty of
                                                    > responsibilities and little time to enjoy themselves..

                                                    I'm really not sure of your point here. My point was, and is, that procreation &
                                                    parenthood is not the only thing we are here for, and therefore homosexuals are
                                                    just as entitled to a life as anyone else.
                                                  • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 21.01.06, 06:50
                                                    russh napisał:

                                                    > > You have a good point also, but what if the guy was unemployed and living
                                                    > with
                                                    > > his boyfriend? I'm sure there's people like that. Even if the gay guy is
                                                    > a
                                                    > > plumber, he's usefull because he can fix someones toilet, but that's not
                                                    > what
                                                    > > I'm talking about.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Let's take gay couple without kids and plenty of time to have...sex, for
                                                    > > example (that's grosse), and a straight couple with 4 kids with plenty of
                                                    > > responsibilities and little time to enjoy themselves..
                                                    >
                                                    > I'm really not sure of your point here. My point was, and is, that
                                                    procreation
                                                    > &
                                                    > parenthood is not the only thing we are here for, and therefore homosexuals
                                                    are
                                                    > just as entitled to a life as anyone else.

                                                    I think that this will only cause another rift in the society, its bad enough
                                                    then you have blacks against whites, arabs against christians and now you're
                                                    going to have gays against straight people....
                                                  • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 21.01.06, 07:02
                                                    > I think that this will only cause another rift in the society, its bad enough
                                                    > then you have blacks against whites, arabs against christians and now you're
                                                    > going to have gays against straight people....

                                                    I don't know of any gays that are against non-gays, only gays that are against
                                                    discrimination of gays.
                                                  • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 21.01.06, 08:01
                                                    russh napisał:

                                                    > > I think that this will only cause another rift in the society, its bad en
                                                    > ough
                                                    > > then you have blacks against whites, arabs against christians and now you
                                                    > 're
                                                    > > going to have gays against straight people....
                                                    >
                                                    > I don't know of any gays that are against non-gays, only gays that are against
                                                    > discrimination of gays.

                                                    Why can't things be black and white anymore? Why is that some perversions are
                                                    forced on people. I always wondered why would a man wanted to be in sexual
                                                    realitonship with another guy... There's so many wonderfull avalaible women out
                                                    there.

                                                    There must be some limits in the society, otherwise you get chaos. I wonder
                                                    what are they going to come up with next? Preheaps some perverts are going
                                                    want run naked around the town, and they will try to convince normal people
                                                    that it is the crime and immoral to force them to wear the clothes.
                                                  • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 21.01.06, 08:18
                                                    > Why can't things be black and white anymore? Why is that some perversions are
                                                    > forced on people. I always wondered why would a man wanted to be in sexual
                                                    > realitonship with another guy... There's so many wonderfull avalaible women out
                                                    >
                                                    > there.

                                                    Just because it is not your cup of tea. To a gay, it is as natural for them to
                                                    want another gay as it is for you to want a woman.

                                                    > There must be some limits in the society, otherwise you get chaos. I wonder
                                                    > what are they going to come up with next? Preheaps some perverts are going
                                                    > want run naked around the town, and they will try to convince normal people
                                                    > that it is the crime and immoral to force them to wear the clothes.

                                                    I agree there must be some limits on society. Thats what we have laws for, and
                                                    why some people choose to live in alternative countries to their own - limits
                                                    are sometimes different from country to country.

                                                    Surely the limit is when harm is done to people, or something is offensive to
                                                    more than a minority. Remember as well that each generation may have slightly
                                                    different ideas as to what is harmful and offensive.


                                                  • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 21.01.06, 10:06
                                                    russh napisał:

                                                    > > Why can't things be black and white anymore? Why is that some perversions
                                                    > are
                                                    > > forced on people. I always wondered why would a man wanted to be in sexua
                                                    > l
                                                    > > realitonship with another guy... There's so many wonderfull avalaible wom
                                                    > en out
                                                    > >
                                                    > > there.
                                                    >
                                                    > Just because it is not your cup of tea. To a gay, it is as natural for them to
                                                    > want another gay as it is for you to want a woman.
                                                    >
                                                    > > There must be some limits in the society, otherwise you get chaos. I wond
                                                    > er
                                                    > > what are they going to come up with next? Preheaps some perverts are goin
                                                    > g
                                                    > > want run naked around the town, and they will try to convince normal peop
                                                    > le
                                                    > > that it is the crime and immoral to force them to wear the clothes.
                                                    >
                                                    > I agree there must be some limits on society. Thats what we have laws for, and
                                                    > why some people choose to live in alternative countries to their own - limits
                                                    > are sometimes different from country to country.
                                                    >
                                                    > Surely the limit is when harm is done to people, or something is offensive to
                                                    > more than a minority. Remember as well that each generation may have slightly
                                                    > different ideas as to what is harmful and offensive.

                                                    Oh, now I get it, that is the reason why some norvegian organistion sends a
                                                    boat with a abortion clinic to the Polish shores, thinking that the poor polish
                                                    ladies are denied right to abortion. But what those Norvegians forget is the
                                                    other side of this procedure, there's suffering unborn children who do have a
                                                    nervous system too, and suffer before they are killed.
                                                  • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 21.01.06, 12:43
                                                    waldek1610 napisał:

                                                    > russh napisał:
                                                    >
                                                    > > > Why can't things be black and white anymore? Why is that some perve
                                                    > rsions
                                                    > > are
                                                    > > > forced on people. I always wondered why would a man wanted to be in
                                                    > sexua
                                                    > > l
                                                    > > > realitonship with another guy... There's so many wonderfull avalaib
                                                    > le wom
                                                    > > en out
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > there.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Just because it is not your cup of tea. To a gay, it is as natural for th
                                                    > em to
                                                    > > want another gay as it is for you to want a woman.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > There must be some limits in the society, otherwise you get chaos.
                                                    > I wond
                                                    > > er
                                                    > > > what are they going to come up with next? Preheaps some perverts ar
                                                    > e goin
                                                    > > g
                                                    > > > want run naked around the town, and they will try to convince norma
                                                    > l peop
                                                    > > le
                                                    > > > that it is the crime and immoral to force them to wear the clothes.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I agree there must be some limits on society. Thats what we have laws for
                                                    > , and
                                                    > > why some people choose to live in alternative countries to their own - li
                                                    > mits
                                                    > > are sometimes different from country to country.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Surely the limit is when harm is done to people, or something is offensiv
                                                    > e to
                                                    > > more than a minority. Remember as well that each generation may have slig
                                                    > htly
                                                    > > different ideas as to what is harmful and offensive.
                                                    >
                                                    > Oh, now I get it, that is the reason why some norvegian organistion sends a
                                                    > boat with a abortion clinic to the Polish shores, thinking that the poor
                                                    polish
                                                    >
                                                    > ladies are denied right to abortion. But what those Norvegians forget is the
                                                    > other side of this procedure, there's suffering unborn children who do have a
                                                    > nervous system too, and suffer before they are killed.

                                                    That was a Dutch ship, and they got sent packing. The mayor of Gdansk
                                                    confiscated their papers, and the local Catholics lined up and protested at the
                                                    Port. In the end, they got sent packing. Half of Europe was secretly very
                                                    pleased with Poland at this point.

                                                    I don't think the Norwegians have any floating abortion clinics.

                                                    I think they have whaling ships. Which means the only interest they might have
                                                    in rounded women are those obese ones you have over there in America. They
                                                    could have a floating liposuction clinic for them, and it would make good the
                                                    absence of whaling quotas.

                                                    Thar she blows!!!
                                                  • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 22.01.06, 06:08
                                                    usenetposts napisał:

                                                    > waldek1610 napisał:

                                                    > > Oh, now I get it, that is the reason why some norvegian organistion sends
                                                    > a
                                                    > > boat with a abortion clinic to the Polish shores, thinking that the poor
                                                    > polish
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ladies are denied right to abortion. But what those Norvegians forget is
                                                    > the
                                                    > > other side of this procedure, there's suffering unborn children who do ha
                                                    > ve a
                                                    > > nervous system too, and suffer before they are killed.
                                                    >
                                                    > That was a Dutch ship, and they got sent packing. The mayor of Gdansk
                                                    > confiscated their papers, and the local Catholics lined up and protested at
                                                    the
                                                    >
                                                    > Port. In the end, they got sent packing. Half of Europe was secretly very
                                                    > pleased with Poland at this point.
                                                    >
                                                    > I don't think the Norwegians have any floating abortion clinics.
                                                    >
                                                    > I think they have whaling ships. Which means the only interest they might
                                                    have
                                                    > in rounded women are those obese ones you have over there in America. They
                                                    > could have a floating liposuction clinic for them, and it would make good the
                                                    > absence of whaling quotas.
                                                    >
                                                    > Thar she blows!!!

                                                    I think Americans would find your last comment offensive, but not me. You offer
                                                    some really racy comments for a "good christian man"...
                                                  • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 22.01.06, 14:56
                                                    waldek1610 napisał:

                                                    > usenetposts napisał:
                                                    >
                                                    > > waldek1610 napisał:
                                                    >
                                                    > > > Oh, now I get it, that is the reason why some norvegian organistion
                                                    > sends
                                                    > > a
                                                    > > > boat with a abortion clinic to the Polish shores, thinking that the
                                                    > poor
                                                    > > polish
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > ladies are denied right to abortion. But what those Norvegians forg
                                                    > et is
                                                    > > the
                                                    > > > other side of this procedure, there's suffering unborn children who
                                                    > do ha
                                                    > > ve a
                                                    > > > nervous system too, and suffer before they are killed.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > That was a Dutch ship, and they got sent packing. The mayor of Gdansk
                                                    > > confiscated their papers, and the local Catholics lined up and protested
                                                    > at
                                                    > the
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Port. In the end, they got sent packing. Half of Europe was secretly very
                                                    >
                                                    > > pleased with Poland at this point.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I don't think the Norwegians have any floating abortion clinics.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I think they have whaling ships. Which means the only interest they might
                                                    >
                                                    > have
                                                    > > in rounded women are those obese ones you have over there in America. The
                                                    > y
                                                    > > could have a floating liposuction clinic for them, and it would make good
                                                    > the
                                                    > > absence of whaling quotas.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Thar she blows!!!
                                                    >
                                                    > I think Americans would find your last comment offensive, but not me. You
                                                    offer
                                                    >
                                                    > some really racy comments for a "good christian man"...
                                                    >

                                                    Well, I'm overweight myself, but I'm not gonna pretend like it's a good thing.

                                                    In America there is a lot of so-called "fat-acceptance". They are making out
                                                    that obesity is just a lifestyle option, and not a sickness to be fought
                                                    against like a lot of other sicknesses.

                                                    I don't think there is anything un-christian about telling the truth. If
                                                    individuals are offended at being called fat, then they should diet and
                                                    exercise. I know it's difficult, I find it very hard also, but it's the only
                                                    way.
                                                  • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 22.01.06, 20:07
                                                    Bluteau wrote:

                                                    > >I don't think there is anything un-christian about telling the truth.
                                                    >
                                                    > Watch out Dave! Waldek will use your words to to explain that that's what he's
                                                    > been doing here all along...

                                                    I'm willing to give him credit for believing he has been. The question is, is
                                                    what he believes is the truth REALLY the truth or not?

                                                    Some of what he believes is true, in my opinion.

                                                    And then he also thinks some other things which in my view are misguided.

                                                    And then on top of that, as icing on what I laughing refer to as his
                                                    intellectual cake, we see a generous helping of misogeny.
                                                  • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 23.01.06, 07:11
                                                    usenetposts napisał:

                                                    > Bluteau wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > > >I don't think there is anything un-christian about telling the truth
                                                    > .
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Watch out Dave! Waldek will use your words to to explain that that's what
                                                    > he's
                                                    > > been doing here all along...
                                                    >
                                                    > I'm willing to give him credit for believing he has been. The question is, is
                                                    > what he believes is the truth REALLY the truth or not?
                                                    >
                                                    > Some of what he believes is true, in my opinion.
                                                    >
                                                    > And then he also thinks some other things which in my view are misguided.
                                                    >
                                                    > And then on top of that, as icing on what I laughing refer to as his
                                                    > intellectual cake, we see a generous helping of misogeny.

                                                    You have stumbled few times in your contra-argumentation,few times you've said
                                                    something and latter widthrew from it, when I pointed out the obvious flaws to
                                                    your ...theories. You think you can Bullshit ex-Marine, well you can't. Much of
                                                    your posts were pure "shite" as the English person would put it...

                                                    Still, Thank you for being a man enough to point out you agreed with me on the
                                                    few subjects! Best regards!
                                                  • missus.c rotfl 23.01.06, 09:36
                                                    waldek1610 napisał:

                                                    . You think you can Bullshit ex-Marine, well you can't.



                                                    ROTFL smile)))))))))))))))))))))

                                                    Oh dear. 32, an ex-marine. Paints but won't show his work. And a list of other
                                                    very interesting facts, which have been repeated and asked about so many times
                                                    it's just getting too funny to write about!!!!

                                                    What next?! smile))))))))))))))))))



                                                  • waldek1610 Zacieraj raczki bo wiesz cos o mnie,ja o tobie nic 23.01.06, 11:47
                                                    missus.c napisała:

                                                    > What next?! smile))))))))))))))))))

                                                    Perheaps you going to tell more about yourself...well, anything about yourself
                                                    really! It's easy to attack your enemy whey you're hiden in the shadows.

                                                    What do we know ebout you? And don't try to tell me that everybody knows
                                                    already, because its not really that hard to introduce oneself in few lines.
                                                    Only than we can talk, for now your dialog with me looked really like a "Proces
                                                    Szestastu" (Trial of Sixteen) a sweeping trial Soviet Military Tribunal gave 16
                                                    of the Home Army (AK) officer, they were charged with treason and hanged...too
                                                    bad they were not even Soviet citizens, but why would Russians care.

                                                    Wiec powiedz mi jak masz na imie, i powiedz cos o sobie, wiec wtedy mozemy
                                                    rozmawiac, a nie ciesz sie jak dzieciak ze mozesz sie do czegos przyczepisz, a
                                                    sam chowasz sie. Boisz sie ze bede mial okazje tez do czegos sie przyczepic,
                                                    panie cwaniaczku?
                                                  • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 23.01.06, 07:02
                                                    usenetposts napisał:

                                                    > > > I don't think the Norwegians have any floating abortion clinics.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > I think they have whaling ships. Which means the only interest they
                                                    > might
                                                    > >
                                                    > > have
                                                    > > > in rounded women are those obese ones you have over there in Americ
                                                    > a. The
                                                    > > y
                                                    > > > could have a floating liposuction clinic for them, and it would mak
                                                    > e good
                                                    > > the
                                                    > > > absence of whaling quotas.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Thar she blows!!!
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I think Americans would find your last comment offensive, but not me. You
                                                    >
                                                    > offer
                                                    > >
                                                    > > some really racy comments for a "good christian man"...
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > Well, I'm overweight myself, but I'm not gonna pretend like it's a good thing.
                                                    >
                                                    > In America there is a lot of so-called "fat-acceptance". They are making out
                                                    > that obesity is just a lifestyle option, and not a sickness to be fought
                                                    > against like a lot of other sicknesses.
                                                    >
                                                    > I don't think there is anything un-christian about telling the truth. If
                                                    > individuals are offended at being called fat, then they should diet and
                                                    > exercise. I know it's difficult, I find it very hard also, but it's the only
                                                    > way.

                                                    Come on, admit you were making rude comments about Americans being fat, don't
                                                    even try to act like its not true. You were not being critical toward yourself,
                                                    your intention was to divert attention form silly Dutch abortion clinic at the
                                                    Polish shorest(which you identify with), and draw attention to American problem
                                                    with obesity...because you though that it would offend me, but I'm far from
                                                    identyfying myself with that culture.
                                                  • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 23.01.06, 11:28
                                                    waldek1610 napisał:

                                                    >
                                                    > Come on, admit you were making rude comments about Americans being fat, don't
                                                    > even try to act like its not true. You were not being critical toward
                                                    yourself,
                                                    >
                                                    > your intention was to divert attention form silly Dutch abortion clinic at
                                                    the
                                                    > Polish shorest(which you identify with), and draw attention to American
                                                    problem
                                                    >
                                                    > with obesity...because you though that it would offend me, but I'm far from
                                                    > identyfying myself with that culture.
                                                    >

                                                    How can you say I identify myself with a floating abortion clinic? Where do you
                                                    get that idea from? What makes you think I am any less abortion than you are?

                                                    How many kids have you got? None. How many have I got? Five. And you're
                                                    supposed to be the Catholic and I'm supposed to be the Protestant, so less
                                                    prejudice, if you please!
                                                  • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 23.01.06, 14:33
                                                    You said I identified with an abortion clinic, I called you on it, and now you
                                                    are changing the subject back to the fact that I said "Thar she blows!!" about
                                                    fat Americans having liposuction, and using their blubber instead of whale
                                                    blubber in order to conserve the cetacean biomass.

                                                    Why cannot you admit for once that you've been bested by an Englishman?

                                                    I did not say I supported floating abortion clinics. I've made it quite clear I
                                                    do not support them. You misrepresented me, and instead of having the cojones
                                                    que se necesita para acknowledgar eso, you turn around and change the subject
                                                    back to the whaling industry and its impact on cosmetic surgery in North
                                                    America.
                                                  • missus.c Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 23.01.06, 15:07
                                                    > Why cannot you admit for once that you've been bested by an Englishman?

                                                    It's not about being English. It's about the fact, that no matter where or who
                                                    you are, Waldek simply will not listen to your arguments.
                                                    Which is preety arrogant for a 32 year old. Altough, maybe the only people he
                                                    does listen to, are those living in Chicago with him. As it seems he constantly
                                                    repeats arguments you hear only from Polonia.
                                                  • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 24.01.06, 13:38
                                                    missus.c napisała:

                                                    > > Why cannot you admit for once that you've been bested by an Englishman?
                                                    >
                                                    > It's not about being English. It's about the fact, that no matter where or
                                                    who
                                                    > you are, Waldek simply will not listen to your arguments.

                                                    But he does have, as his continually references to the point illustrate, a
                                                    particular dislike of the English.

                                                    Which I take as a compliment, actually.
                                                  • missus.c Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 24.01.06, 14:29
                                                    You know what. I think to him it doesn't REALLY matter. If he could communicate
                                                    in any other languages, and found a forum here in that language - he would
                                                    pester, preach and offend them also. It's just he happens to know English and
                                                    you happen to be British, that's why he's lashing out )and not because he
                                                    really hates the British). An unfortunate coincidence.
                                                  • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 26.01.06, 07:48
                                                    usenetposts napisał:

                                                    > missus.c napisała:
                                                    >
                                                    > > > Why cannot you admit for once that you've been bested by an English
                                                    > man?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > It's not about being English. It's about the fact, that no matter where o
                                                    > r
                                                    > who
                                                    > > you are, Waldek simply will not listen to your arguments.
                                                    >
                                                    > But he does have, as his continually references to the point illustrate, a
                                                    > particular dislike of the English.
                                                    >
                                                    > Which I take as a compliment, actually.

                                                    This is your personal opinion, to the contrary I believe that you're
                                                    interesingly dislike Poland, which is quite difficult to comprehend. Why would
                                                    you volountarly seatle in Poland, if you have such a negative opinion about
                                                    Poland contry over all.
                                                  • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 26.01.06, 19:19
                                                    waldek1610 napisał:

                                                    > usenetposts napisał:
                                                    >
                                                    > > missus.c napisała:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > > Why cannot you admit for once that you've been bested by an E
                                                    > nglish
                                                    > > man?
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > It's not about being English. It's about the fact, that no matter w
                                                    > here o
                                                    > > r
                                                    > > who
                                                    > > > you are, Waldek simply will not listen to your arguments.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > But he does have, as his continually references to the point illustrate,
                                                    > a
                                                    > > particular dislike of the English.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Which I take as a compliment, actually.
                                                    >
                                                    > This is your personal opinion, to the contrary I believe that you're
                                                    > interesingly dislike Poland, which is quite difficult to comprehend. Why
                                                    would
                                                    > you volountarly seatle in Poland, if you have such a negative opinion about
                                                    > Poland contry over all.
                                                    >

                                                    I like Poland, and you have no basis for believing the contrary, although this
                                                    country can be infuriating.

                                                    If there's anyone here who doesn't like Poland, matey boy, it's you, seeing as
                                                    how you don't come here.

                                                    "Polska jest w moim sercu" you write. What you forget to add is where that so-
                                                    called "heart" of yours is, as in "firmly wedged up your own rectal sphincter".
                                                • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 12:26
                                                  > > Well, because straight (heterosexual) couples usually produce offspring
                                                  > > therefore are considered productive, and on the other hand gay couples ha
                                                  > ve a
                                                  > > choice of adoption, but even that is not required of them. They can draw
                                                  > > benefits from being married, without assuming any responsibilities, that
                                                  > > straight couiples have to bear, such as raising kids and having no option
                                                  > s
                                                  >
                                                  > Surely our only purpose on Earth is not to procreate. There are many other
                                                  > things that I would term responsible. A friemd of mine in the UK is a gay, a
                                                  > super guy, and is a very good doctor, working in a hospital and saving lives.
                                                  > What would you term him?

                                                  If he doesn't procreate, then all the more space for the kids of those who do.

                                                  The problem for society of course comes when western people decide not to
                                                  procreate, and the average birth rate per woman in our cultures, barring the
                                                  immigrants in the culture, gets well below the maintenance rate of 2,2 ish,
                                                  whereas the Islamic family has well above the maintenance rate.

                                                  This means that the time it will take before Islam radicals become the majority
                                                  in our countries and we effectively have to do as they say is shorter than we
                                                  might intuitively think it is.

                                                  I did an analysis on a differential in birth rate of 1.8/2.5, which
                                                  underestimates the actual one - bearing in mind that we don't know what it will
                                                  be in the future - and the figures show that we are likely to lose control of
                                                  the EU to Islamists in about 225 years if we do not match them in the
                                                  procreation stakes - this assumes no further immigration (with immigration the
                                                  time taken for them to take over will only be smaller.

                                                  Doctoring is a fine thing, but on its own it will not stop us losing everything
                                                  we have worked for in the history of our people and our culture and our
                                                  continent.

                                                  Our enemies - as in those who live among us but think it's ok to suicide bomb
                                                  our asses to eternity in exchange for 70 virgins - take parenting and educating
                                                  their kids to achieve something in our society very seriously. We should too.

                                                  If not, then it's tantamount to handing the entire cultural inheritance over.
                                                  • bluteau Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 12:35
                                                    >that straight couiples have to bear, such as raising kids and having no options.
                                                    >and a straight couple with 4 kids with plenty of responsibilities and little
                                                    time to enjoy themselves..

                                                    Whoa, Waldek, you sure make heterosexual life sound rewarding. Is that your
                                                    Catholic concept of life - having no options and no time to enjoy oneself?
                                                  • waldek1610 Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 13:00
                                                    bluteau napisała:

                                                    > >that straight couiples have to bear, such as raising kids and having no op
                                                    > tions.
                                                    > >and a straight couple with 4 kids with plenty of responsibilities and litt
                                                    > le
                                                    > time to enjoy themselves..
                                                    >
                                                    > Whoa, Waldek, you sure make heterosexual life sound rewarding. Is that your
                                                    > Catholic concept of life - having no options and no time to enjoy oneself?

                                                    Well, no.. I would always find time for little pleasures, but homosexual
                                                    couples on the other hand not having children, seems to be getting together
                                                    only in order to have sex and satisfy themselves, they seem to be selfish to me.
                                                  • bluteau Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 13:20
                                                    And a church that dictates that a female rape victim who became pregnant should
                                                    carry to term and give birth is selfish (and immoral) or a Church that condones
                                                    contraception which later leads to families with too many mouths to feed (and
                                                    they'd better not even turn to their parish for help) is pretty damn selfish...

                                                    >but homosexual couples on the other hand not having children, seems to be
                                                    getting together only in order to have sex and satisfy themselves

                                                    Waldek, this just shows that you've never really had anything to do with
                                                    homosexuals before. You're just repeating what other inexperienced narrow-minded
                                                    people/ and or organisations tell you to. It's pap.
                                                  • missus.c Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 14:10
                                                    > Waldek, this just shows that you've never really had anything to do with
                                                    > homosexuals before. You're just repeating what other inexperienced narrow-
                                                    minde
                                                    > d
                                                    > people/ and or organisations tell you to. It's pap.

                                                    blu
                                                    If you read anything else written byl Waldek you will see it is the norm for
                                                    him to do that. He hates stereotypes (states that on his forum) but uses them
                                                    in any argument.

                                                    In this case, what he is trying to say, as a peace loving, Catholic, tolerant,
                                                    heterosexual (who slags off minorities any chance he gets, makes racist
                                                    statements and tries to convince all the foreigners here, he knows better about
                                                    Poland than them, even though he hasn't been here for years and gets all his
                                                    info from Radio Maryja) is that every time he has intercourse, it is not
                                                    because he wants to enjoy himself. Oh no no no! He is not THAT selfish. He does
                                                    so, in order to pro-create. Each and every time.

                                                    Wonder how many Waldek jr's are out there, then? smile))))))))
                                                  • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 16:36
                                                    usenetposts napisał:

                                                    > The problem for society of course comes when western people decide not to
                                                    > procreate, and the average birth rate per woman in our cultures, barring the
                                                    > immigrants in the culture, gets well below the maintenance rate of 2,2 ish,
                                                    > whereas the Islamic family has well above the maintenance rate.

                                                    Already happening - negative growth in several EU countries. It's potentially
                                                    the most serious economic problem as I see it.

                                                    >
                                                    > This means that the time it will take before Islam radicals become the majority

                                                    Hopefully not all will be radicals, although I too have my suspicions.

                                                    >
                                                    > in our countries and we effectively have to do as they say is shorter than we
                                                    > might intuitively think it is.
                                                    >
                                                    > I did an analysis on a differential in birth rate of 1.8/2.5, which
                                                    > underestimates the actual one - bearing in mind that we don't know what it will
                                                    >
                                                    > be in the future - and the figures show that we are likely to lose control of
                                                    > the EU to Islamists in about 225 years if we do not match them in the
                                                    > procreation stakes - this assumes no further immigration (with immigration the
                                                    > time taken for them to take over will only be smaller.
                                                    >
                                                    > Doctoring is a fine thing, but on its own it will not stop us losing everything

                                                    DO you mean doctoring the Muslim males? As per animals?

                                                    >
                                                    > we have worked for in the history of our people and our culture and our
                                                    > continent.
                                                    >
                                                    > Our enemies - as in those who live among us but think it's ok to suicide bomb
                                                    > our asses to eternity in exchange for 70 virgins - take parenting and educating
                                                    >
                                                    > their kids to achieve something in our society very seriously. We should too.
                                                    >
                                                    > If not, then it's tantamount to handing the entire cultural inheritance over.

                                                    Have to agree to a great extent, although it is also true that the modern
                                                    society, in its 'must-have' format is to blame in my opinion. Couples, and
                                                    especially women today do not want to waste time and money on a family, and
                                                    certainly not on one as large as a 2+2.2. Our society has to change its values
                                                    before what I believe both you and I want will happen.


                                                  • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 17:15
                                                    > usenetposts napisał:
                                                    >
                                                    > > The problem for society of course comes when western people decide not to
                                                    >
                                                    > > procreate, and the average birth rate per woman in our cultures, barring
                                                    > the
                                                    > > immigrants in the culture, gets well below the maintenance rate of 2,2 is
                                                    > h,
                                                    > > whereas the Islamic family has well above the maintenance rate.
                                                    >
                                                    > Already happening - negative growth in several EU countries. It's potentially
                                                    > the most serious economic problem as I see it.

                                                    It is on the face of it not good news for realtors, but that should mainly
                                                    effect the low end of the market. I believe that quality property will continue
                                                    to command a rising price.

                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > This means that the time it will take before Islam radicals become the ma
                                                    > jority
                                                    >
                                                    > Hopefully not all will be radicals, although I too have my suspicions.

                                                    The difference between a Muslim and a Muslim radical is not one of theology,
                                                    but of how zealous they happen to feel. Therefore any Muslim is potentially a
                                                    Muslim radical, in a way which is not true of other faiths.

                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > in our countries and we effectively have to do as they say is shorter tha
                                                    > n we
                                                    > > might intuitively think it is.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I did an analysis on a differential in birth rate of 1.8/2.5, which
                                                    > > underestimates the actual one - bearing in mind that we don't know what i
                                                    > t will
                                                    > >
                                                    > > be in the future - and the figures show that we are likely to lose contro
                                                    > l of
                                                    > > the EU to Islamists in about 225 years if we do not match them in the
                                                    > > procreation stakes - this assumes no further immigration (with immigratio
                                                    > n the
                                                    > > time taken for them to take over will only be smaller.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Doctoring is a fine thing, but on its own it will not stop us losing ever
                                                    > ything
                                                    >
                                                    > DO you mean doctoring the Muslim males? As per animals?
                                                    >

                                                    I meant as in being a doctor, although your slant on it is not without its
                                                    merits.

                                                    Certainly I think we need to do a better job at vetting them.

                                                    > >
                                                    > > we have worked for in the history of our people and our culture and our
                                                    > > continent.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Our enemies - as in those who live among us but think it's ok to suicide
                                                    > bomb
                                                    > > our asses to eternity in exchange for 70 virgins - take parenting and edu
                                                    > cating
                                                    > >
                                                    > > their kids to achieve something in our society very seriously. We should
                                                    > too.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > If not, then it's tantamount to handing the entire cultural inheritance o
                                                    > ver.
                                                    >
                                                    > Have to agree to a great extent, although it is also true that the modern
                                                    > society, in its 'must-have' format is to blame in my opinion. Couples, and
                                                    > especially women today do not want to waste time and money on a family, and
                                                    > certainly not on one as large as a 2+2.2. Our society has to change its values
                                                    > before what I believe both you and I want will happen.

                                                    People at a certain age are tempted to believe that the pursuit of chattels
                                                    real or imagined is the most important thing there is. I used to think so, and
                                                    act so.

                                                    Having then lost a half million USD in my divorce, or in the end been willing
                                                    to give it up in order to be with the person I wanted to spend the rest of my
                                                    life with and not be any longer tied to someone who was effectively my worst
                                                    enemy, I began to see it was not such a biggy after all, and that I could live
                                                    very happily in very moderate conditions as long as I was ok family-wise.

                                                    What I believe many women experience is that they allow themselves to be
                                                    carried away by the pursuit of riches to the exclusion of kids when they are at
                                                    an age when they could more easily handle bearing them, and the energy needed
                                                    to rear them. They are more interested in getting their careers on the go,
                                                    though, and being a dual-income no kids couple makes them feel as though they
                                                    are in clover. It's not easy then to think about sacrificing the luxuries, the
                                                    expensive mortgage, the paid servants, the fancy clothes and other things and
                                                    give them up for the next generation, and even though they themselves would
                                                    never have appeared on this planet had their parents been of that opinion, they
                                                    feel no obligation to carry on the circle of life, that moves us all, as Sir
                                                    Elton sang.

                                                    But then one day they learn a new feeling - the feeling of emptiness and
                                                    barrenness that comes to most women sooner or later when they realise that they
                                                    have screwed their chance to be a mother, and it's now too late to try. Either
                                                    they are infertile, or they are into the age where they don't like the risk of
                                                    Down's syndrome, or they arrive at the point in the relationship where the man
                                                    is looking at the younger women and trades them in for a younger model - which
                                                    he may very well not have done, or done just on the retail instead of wholesale
                                                    basis, and with adequate discretion, had she had these children earlier.

                                                    And so they usually end up unhappy, these women who leave it too late to have
                                                    children.

                                                    And so do many men also, once they reach a certain age. However, they can often
                                                    still do something about it in their forties and fifties, while for a woman the
                                                    biological clock is a much more limiting factor.
                                                  • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 17:33
                                                    > > Already happening - negative growth in several EU countries. It's potenti
                                                    > ally
                                                    > > the most serious economic problem as I see it.
                                                    >
                                                    > It is on the face of it not good news for realtors, but that should mainly
                                                    > effect the low end of the market. I believe that quality property will continue
                                                    >
                                                    > to command a rising price

                                                    The problem is not just re property. It's the demographics. Too many old'ns and
                                                    not enough young'ns to pay for them. Look at just about every western economy
                                                    and their forcast pension shortfalls. It's not good reading.

                                                    I agree with the last comment, but would again add that it's todays society, and
                                                    needs a radical shift back in values to change. We're some way away from that.

                                                    The constant search of business to increase profits, and therefore having to
                                                    create new markets and marketable products goes against any shift backwards in
                                                    values, unless they (business) can really tap into the undeveloped world
                                                    (therefore increasing their turnover, and hopefully profit, through greater unit
                                                    sales as opposed to new products) whilst changing their values (especially in
                                                    the marketing of their products) at the same time.
                                                  • usenetposts Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 17:47
                                                    russh napisał:

                                                    > > > Already happening - negative growth in several EU countries. It's p
                                                    > otenti
                                                    > > ally
                                                    > > > the most serious economic problem as I see it.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > It is on the face of it not good news for realtors, but that should mainl
                                                    > y
                                                    > > effect the low end of the market. I believe that quality property will co
                                                    > ntinue
                                                    > >
                                                    > > to command a rising price
                                                    >
                                                    > The problem is not just re property. It's the demographics. Too many old'ns
                                                    and
                                                    > not enough young'ns to pay for them. Look at just about every western economy
                                                    > and their forcast pension shortfalls. It's not good reading.
                                                    >
                                                    > I agree with the last comment, but would again add that it's todays society,
                                                    an
                                                    > d
                                                    > needs a radical shift back in values to change. We're some way away from that.
                                                    >
                                                    > The constant search of business to increase profits, and therefore having to
                                                    > create new markets and marketable products goes against any shift backwards in
                                                    > values, unless they (business) can really tap into the undeveloped world
                                                    > (therefore increasing their turnover, and hopefully profit, through greater
                                                    uni
                                                    > t
                                                    > sales as opposed to new products) whilst changing their values (especially in
                                                    > the marketing of their products) at the same time.

                                                    We are going to see a period of deflation, there is no doubt about that. But
                                                    when that happens it is in fact even better for the real estate sector than
                                                    most other sectors, as you always have such and such an amount of m3, such and
                                                    such an amount of living space. It doesn't just shrink like the value of shares
                                                    r pension funds. The rent you get for it might shrink, but there is always
                                                    something that will return in value in the future.

                                                    The sector that gives us the most hope to counter the demographic problem is
                                                    robotics. If we are old and there is no one to look after us, then we may have
                                                    machines to do that, within the next twenty years or so.
                                                  • russh Re: Missus;"Many Slavs are gay living in palm jun 20.01.06, 17:55
                                                    > The sector that gives us the most hope to counter the demographic problem is
                                                    > robotics. If we are old and there is no one to look after us, then we may have
                                                    > machines to do that, within the next twenty years or so.

                                                    Maybe, if they're a lot cheaper than humans, and the health service costs of an
                                                    ever older population reduce. It will still not in reality solve the pensions
                                                    problem if the must-have society is not cured ('cos pensioners want as well).
                                                    Maybe cloning is the answer after all.
            • missus.c Re: Did I dared to ask invoncenient question agai 15.01.06, 13:20
              waldek1610 napisał:


              >
              > Can you tell diffence between "recognitising that gay people exist"
              > and "promoting their livestyles"?
              > Just because Nazis existed is it the reason to promote their ideals?
              > Homosexualism is the sickness and it has to be treated as such.

              Really? Who told you that?


              >
              > Did you believe that the fact that mans and womans sexual organs were made
              the
              > way to compliment and fit each other so perfectly is just the coinsidence?
              No,
              > women are ment to fuck men and vice versa.

              HOW CLASSY. This statement shows how really educated you are...
              Shouldn't he be chucked off the board for using such crass language?!



              >
              > Males butt is not meant to be fucked, but if two guys want live together
              thats
              > fine by me, but what it will lead to?


              And another fine example of the use of language.....



              Is such union of two man (or two women)
              > productive? Marriage has responsibilities such as procreation and raising
              > children, it was not established so two men can live out their derailed
              sexual
              > perversions.

              You know so much about that.


              >
              > What is wrong with having sex and mating with oposite sex?


              Nothing. Seems you are obsessed.




              >
              >
              >
              > > What rules of moderation are you talking about?
              > >
              > > Re the older question; it makes no sense, so I have not answered it.
              >
              > I asked why is Protestant Church so in line with gays, lesbians, feminists
              and
              > other extremist, why does it want to brake all rules of moderation and
              balanced
              >
              > existance? Is that plain enough for you?


              I didn't know that gays, lesbians etc were 'extremists'. Maybe they're out
              there in the mountains of Afghanistan with Al-Quaeda. Oh no, hold on, most of
              them are in San Francisco! Wait, isn't that in the USA?
              As for the protestant extrimists - well, ask the Archbishop of Cantebury I'm
              sure he'll answer that.




              >
              > Why change something that is good? I know you are going to say I'm a bigot
              > because I don't embrace gay people,

              If you know the answer, then why ask.

              but do you really think that gays
              > signify "balance and moderation"??? If you want to leave in such an "open
              > minded" world, would you accept that instead of getting a steak at the
              > restaurant you wuold get a rat on the plate? You just said that you are so
              open
              >
              > minded and you accept changes.....



              Oh dear.... really I think the way Waldek arguments this, is by simply copying
              what he hears on Radio Maryja.


              • usenetposts Re: Did I dared to ask invoncenient question agai 15.01.06, 15:17
                missus.c napisała:

                > waldek1610 napisał:
                >
                >
                > >
                > > Can you tell diffence between "recognitising that gay people exist"
                > > and "promoting their livestyles"?
                > > Just because Nazis existed is it the reason to promote their ideals?
                > > Homosexualism is the sickness and it has to be treated as such.
                >
                > Really? Who told you that?
                >

                There's no scientific proof that it is a sickness, but there are many people
                who hold the view that it is one. Certainly if you believe evolution, which I
                don't, it looks like an aberration, because it's a feature which doesn't
                promote the survival of the creatures it appears in, but rather ensures the
                rapid extinction of their genetic line.

                >
                > >
                > > Did you believe that the fact that mans and womans sexual organs were mad
                > e
                > the
                > > way to compliment and fit each other so perfectly is just the coinsidence
                > ?
                > No,
                > > women are ment to fuck men and vice versa.
                >
                > HOW CLASSY. This statement shows how really educated you are...
                > Shouldn't he be chucked off the board for using such crass language?!
                >

                We had a vote about that recently and he survived it. That gives him relative
                safety for a while, but I think he needs to bear in mind that this is not a
                site reserved for people over the age of 18, and that his words may be read by
                gornicy.

                It is interesting that he says that women and men are built for each other, and
                yet I have yet to hear him criticise the RC doctrine of the celibacy of the
                clergy.

                > > Males butt is not meant to be fucked, but if two guys want live together
                > thats
                > > fine by me, but what it will lead to?

                A rise in teenage pregnancies.

                >
                >
                > And another fine example of the use of language.....

                It was also illogical. He says that a man's butt is not intended for
                copulation, as if to imply that a woman's is. But what are the physiological
                differences between the recta of the two sexes?

                Basically, I think Waldek would be safer if he just left the bottom alone full
                stop. Trying just to have anal sex with ladies imagining they are men
                (especially selecting ones with protracting adams apples and large hands, which
                helps him with that fantasy) and then slagging off the homosexuals is just too
                transparent, and isn't gonna fly on this group, I'm afraid.

                No-one's buying.

                >
                > Is such union of two man (or two women)
                > > productive? Marriage has responsibilities such as procreation and raising
                >
                > > children, it was not established so two men can live out their derailed
                > sexual
                > > perversions.
                >
                > You know so much about that.
                >

                You noticed too.

                >
                > >
                > > What is wrong with having sex and mating with oposite sex?
                >
                >
                > Nothing. Seems you are obsessed.
                >

                It's all he loves.

                > >
                > > > What rules of moderation are you talking about?
                > > >
                > > > Re the older question; it makes no sense, so I have not answered it
                > .
                > >
                > > I asked why is Protestant Church so in line with gays, lesbians, feminist
                > s
                > and
                > > other extremist, why does it want to brake all rules of moderation and
                > balanced
                > >
                > > existance? Is that plain enough for you?
                >
                >
                > I didn't know that gays, lesbians etc were 'extremists'. Maybe they're out
                > there in the mountains of Afghanistan with Al-Quaeda. Oh no, hold on, most of
                > them are in San Francisco! Wait, isn't that in the USA?
                > As for the protestant extrimists - well, ask the Archbishop of Cantebury I'm
                > sure he'll answer that.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >
                > > Why change something that is good? I know you are going to say I'm a bigo
                > t
                > > because I don't embrace gay people,
                >
                > If you know the answer, then why ask.
                >
                > but do you really think that gays
                > > signify "balance and moderation"??? If you want to leave in such an "open
                >
                > > minded" world, would you accept that instead of getting a steak at the
                > > restaurant you wuold get a rat on the plate? You just said that you are s
                > o
                > open
                > >
                > > minded and you accept changes.....
                >
                >
                >
                > Oh dear.... really I think the way Waldek arguments this, is by simply
                copying
                > what he hears on Radio Maryja.

                Taking a theological stance about homosexuality is all well and good, but if
                you are gonna slag them off it helps if that isn't just gonna be hypocrisy.

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