they're coming to get you:)

22.01.06, 16:16
I read this toady and the polish media picked up on it also, so you might
want to check it outsmile)))



Gazprom is considering a takeover bid for Centrica, the Russian state-
controlled gas giant has admitted.

Its deputy chairman, Alexander Medvedev, said last week that it wanted to
supply a fifth of the UK's gas within a decade.

A company source, asked if Gazprom was weighing up a bid for Centrica, whose
British Gas subsidiary has around 16 million customers, said this
weekend: "We say maybe."

But senior UK politicians have expressed worries over a big UK energy company
like Centrica ending up in the hands of Gazprom. Liberal Democrat trade and
industry spokesman Norman Lamb said competition regulators should examine
whether such a takeover would give Gazprom a cross- monopoly in continental
Europe and the UK.

"There is a concern here over the concentration of power and concern about
[Gazprom's] relationship with the Russian government," he said. "At the very
least, there needs to be a bit of thought given as to whether this is
strategically wise.

"Within the UK, monopolies are looked at and you can raise concerns, but
there is no comparable agreement over international monopolies."




ther rest of the article is here:
news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article340124.ece

Seems the Old Soviet state is hiding behind the likes of such companies as
Gazprom - you must give them credit for this fantastic masquarade. Which
seems to be a bid to re-take some of the power which diminished in the
crumble of the wall.



seems it's not Muslim radicals you should be worried about, eh?smile)))
    • usenetposts I'm no Russophobe 22.01.06, 19:24
      missus.c napisała:

      > I read this toady and the polish media picked up on it also, so you might
      > want to check it outsmile)))
      >
      >
      >
      > Gazprom is considering a takeover bid for Centrica, the Russian state-
      > controlled gas giant has admitted.
      >
      > Its deputy chairman, Alexander Medvedev, said last week that it wanted to
      > supply a fifth of the UK's gas within a decade.
      >
      > A company source, asked if Gazprom was weighing up a bid for Centrica, whose
      > British Gas subsidiary has around 16 million customers, said this
      > weekend: "We say maybe."
      >
      > But senior UK politicians have expressed worries over a big UK energy company
      > like Centrica ending up in the hands of Gazprom. Liberal Democrat trade and
      > industry spokesman Norman Lamb said competition regulators should examine
      > whether such a takeover would give Gazprom a cross- monopoly in continental
      > Europe and the UK.
      >
      > "There is a concern here over the concentration of power and concern about
      > [Gazprom's] relationship with the Russian government," he said. "At the very
      > least, there needs to be a bit of thought given as to whether this is
      > strategically wise.
      >
      > "Within the UK, monopolies are looked at and you can raise concerns, but
      > there is no comparable agreement over international monopolies."
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ther rest of the article is here:
      > news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article340124.ece
      >
      > Seems the Old Soviet state is hiding behind the likes of such companies as
      > Gazprom - you must give them credit for this fantastic masquarade. Which
      > seems to be a bid to re-take some of the power which diminished in the
      > crumble of the wall.
      >
      > seems it's not Muslim radicals you should be worried about, eh?smile)))

      I'm seriously not worried about Russians expanding into the world of
      capitalism. They are getting back to the position of world influence in
      business and capital that they had in Tsarist times and would have had right
      now had the Revolution not intervened and impoverished the country and the soul
      of the people.

      I have nothing whatsoever against the Russians as a nation. I enjoyed working
      out there for 15 months not that long ago, and in a sense, although I do prefer
      Poland and feel more at home here, I miss Moscow in many ways and still keep up
      close contacts with friends I made there.

      Now whilst the issues that cause trouble within Russia are serious, though
      certainly not as serious as they were in the 1990s when the whole social
      contract there was being redrafted, I can tell you that the Russians that have
      floded into London and England, being actually as large an immigrant group as
      the Polish, have kept their noses clean as well as the Polish immigrants have
      and they do not have a bad reputation. Both Russians and Poles in the UK have
      earned themselves a clean reputation.

      The mafia is in the process of legitimisation over there, although it will take
      a good eight more years to eradicate the numerous tax avoidance structures that
      are there and normalise the economy, and balance it, as Putin stated as his
      objective in 2003.

      The high oil price means that their chances for success are very high.

      Personally I am in favour of encouraging Russians to integrate with us
      entirely, and to allow the entire Russian nation all the way to Kamchatka
      rights to work in the EU - even the right to have a job provided for them in
      the case of their best graduates, for the first two years of their work
      experience, by dint of EU grant. I am in favour of the free movement of capital
      and goods and services and people between the EU and Russia. I am also in
      favour of the subsuming of Belarus into Russia, and then including the lot into
      the EU. Our 25 states outnumbers the Russian-Belarusian population 2 to 1, and
      in exchange for supporting their lower standard of living now, our system will
      gain territory and resources that will put us at the top of the tree and bound
      to leave the US in 2nd place in due course.

      The Russians are at soul a European nation with an additional beyond-Europe
      perspective. In this they are absolutely no different to the British, and yet
      the British are good Europeans - in many ways better than the continentals.

      While under Communism, the Russians had a tendency to understand things back-to-
      front, in fact, they even had a school subject called "Dialectical Materialism"
      that was basically intended to brainwash them that black was white if the party
      said so. But in these days I have rarely encountered a Russian I couldn't
      immediately communicate with in a common set of terms. The underlying Christian
      soul of the nation will out, and in my experience they have no more proportion
      of committed socialists and atheists that Britain or France have.

      I certainly do not fear the Russians in the way that I fear the Islamic nations.

      I even have better expectations of the Chinese, who are not in our system of
      thought and history, than I do of the Islamic system. Nevertheless, it's always
      wise to keep a watchful eye on China and that's one more big reason to be
      firmly allied with the Russians. If not, then they will take Siberia while we
      are busy watching Taiwan, and if we are not pacted together to drive them out,
      then they will be fated to dominate the world for ever.

      Now all that having been said, I am not in favour of multinational corporations
      having monopolies at all, regardless of whether the stakeholders are European
      or American or Russian or Chinese or Saudis. It is a way for us to find
      ourselves held to ransom from unexpected quarters. Also I don't like the
      dinosaur, dehumanising culture that comes from larger corporations.

      The problem is of course that utilities like gas can scarcely be delivered by
      SMEs. That's why we have government regulation over those areas, but as your
      article states it's not easy to regulate the international concern.

      However, the way things are now means that anyone can buy shares in Western
      stock-quoted companies, and we therefore, to coin a phrase, "know what they
      are, and know all we need to talk about is the price".

      If the Russians pay that price today, then who's to say that someone else will
      not be paying the right price to buy Gazprom tomorrow? If it's Bill Gates who
      does that, then what will you say?
      • missus.c Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 09:39
        I say, very nice essay, Davesmile

        However, it is most probably easier for you to be so trusting and open to
        business with Russia. Others would tell you not to be so naivesmile
        • usenetposts Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 11:23
          missus.c napisała:

          > I say, very nice essay, Davesmile
          >
          > However, it is most probably easier for you to be so trusting and open to
          > business with Russia. Others would tell you not to be so naivesmile


          I don't think I am naive.

          I would tell them to have a look at this:

          www.strategy.pl/gal5.jpg and let them see for themsleves that I was made
          perfectly at ease and welcomed even at top levels of Russian society.

          That's no Photoshop job, by the way, that really is me greeting Mikhail
          Sergeyevitch Gorbachev.

          I'll leave you to decide which is the greater claim to fame, that or having
          once taken Roger Daltrey's tax return to the post office.
          • missus.c Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 11:43
            I think you missed the point.

            There is a difference between local hospitality and politics.


            btw. Minister Woźniak has just announced that gas deliveries to Poland have
            dropped by 34%.
            • usenetposts Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 11:46

              Then that simply means that the correct approach to them was not made.

              You do know have to have some kind of knowledge, when doing business with the
              Russians.
              • missus.c Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 11:58
                Yes, it usually means tip toeing around them and dancing to the music they
                playsmile We have a lot of experience in that fieldsmile A couple of hunderd yearssmile
                • usenetposts Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 13:38
                  And how was that different to what you had from the Germans or gave to the
                  Lithuanians?
                  • missus.c Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 13:48
                    We were not given or did not give anything. We weren't in a position to decide
                    or give hand outs. As you probably already know, we didn't have much to say in
                    the post-war era. Many decisions were made behind our backs. And using a puppet
                    givernment.

                    We already spoke about this in another thread, so I am not quite sure why you
                    posted this question here.
                    • usenetposts Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 14:19
                      > We were not given or did not give anything. We weren't in a position to
                      decide
                      > or give hand outs. As you probably already know, we didn't have much to say
                      in
                      > the post-war era. Many decisions were made behind our backs. And using a
                      puppet
                      >
                      > givernment.
                      >
                      > We already spoke about this in another thread, so I am not quite sure why you
                      > posted this question here.


                      I never spoke about hand-outs.

                      I am saying that for Poland to be in a position where it is not dominant in
                      relation to a much bigger neighbour is not unique to its relation with Russia.
                      The Germans led you a fine dance too, and still are, and also Poland knows what
                      it is to be the dominant power - ask any Lithuanian.
                      • missus.c Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 14:29
                        I agree. But this is another topic, I think.

                        I am talking about the Russians having too much power in the Gas market.My
                        opinion here is that looking at the current situation, If I were the British
                        government, I would be weary of doing such (gas) business with the Russians.
                        It is too bigger stake to risk. But maybe the British have no choice, maybe at
                        the end of the day all of Europe will forever be dependant on Russia?



                        This has ofcourse no light on my opinion of the Russians. I have Russian
                        friends and Russia has been a part of my life since childhood. Ukraine also is
                        part of my family history. A very long and sad story.
                        • ms.jones Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 17:56
                          missus.c napisała:

                          > I am talking about the Russians having too much power in the Gas market.My
                          > opinion here is that looking at the current situation, If I were the British
                          > government, I would be weary of doing such (gas) business with the Russians.
                          > It is too bigger stake to risk. But maybe the British have no choice, maybe
                          at
                          > the end of the day all of Europe will forever be dependant on Russia?

                          That's why nuclear energy is no loger a dirty word (two words)in the cabinet.
                          Interesting how the new Labour are embracing the idea of nuclear power plants
                          and the new Tories are greener than ever. Anyway, might it be worth investing
                          in Gazprom shares or a fund where they feature high on the list of the fund's
                          top holdings?

                          > friends and Russia has been a part of my life since childhood. Ukraine also
                          is
                          > part of my family history. A very long and sad story.

                          My father was born in Belarus (Pripet marshes bordering on the Ukraine) and my
                          godmother was Lithuanian. Their relatives spoke with that lovely soft russian
                          sounding accent. I always felt it was a shame they were not able to go back and
                          visit the place of their birth where they grew up. I hardly know anything about
                          their roots but I gave my children Russian names. This despite the fact that
                          their relatives suffered badly in bolshevik hands (which again I hardly know
                          anything about).

                          Will you share your long and sad story with us sometime?
                          • marimax Comrade usenetposts 23.01.06, 19:06
                            Why don't you go back to england and start teaching your people using your left
                            wing media how to appease to the russians.
                            Are you another Chamberlain ???????
                            • missus.c Re: Comrade usenetposts 23.01.06, 19:10
                              And that question was in aid of.......?
                            • usenetposts "Comrade" my ass. I did more to end communism than 24.01.06, 13:36
                              ...you ever did. But that's for another place and another time.

                              marimax napisał:

                              > Why don't you go back to england and start teaching your people using your
                              left
                              >
                              > wing media how to appease to the russians.
                              > Are you another Chamberlain ???????


                              We are not appeasing the Russians, we are simply accepting them as partners in
                              the capitalist world. We spent a lot of time and propaganda - not to mention
                              pprayer - encouraging them to give up Communism, and now that they have, are we
                              not going to let them play in the sand pit with all the other capitalist kids
                              just because they are bigger than most?

                              Let's just be a bit fair here.

                              Now I'm aware that we British are accused of having done espionage in Moscow,
                              and that we have accused them of doing espionage in our country, and no doubt
                              there will always be this looking over each others shoulders and trying what we
                              can to insure each others' national interests, but in no way should we treat
                              this any more with the severity it was treated during the Cold War. It is more
                              of a game now, were money can be made or lost, but not, may God forbid it, the
                              lives of the agents involved.
                          • missus.c Re: I'm no Russophobe 23.01.06, 19:14
                            ms. jones

                            Maybe one day, although I am still recovering genealogical tracks. It is very
                            difficult but I have made good progress.
                            Although as you know yourself, that in this part of the world, there are not
                            many of us, who don't have historical accusations towards their neighbours.
                            But, hopefully, all that will one day really be history.
      • marimax Re: I'm no Russophobe 24.01.06, 16:32
        At least you understand a true nature of the russian people.
        They are barbarians and they will never change.
        You can negotiate with them only from the position of strenght.
        President Reagan understood it and he won.
        If you are week you will end up in the labor camp in Siberia
      • ianek70 Gas smells 25.01.06, 20:14
        usenetposts napisał:

        > I'm seriously not worried about Russians expanding into the world of
        > capitalism. They are getting back to the position of world influence in
        > business and capital that they had in Tsarist times and would have had right
        > now had the Revolution not intervened and impoverished the country and the
        soul
        >
        > of the people.
        >
        > I have nothing whatsoever against the Russians as a nation. I enjoyed working
        > out there for 15 months not that long ago, and in a sense, although I do
        prefer
        >
        > Poland and feel more at home here, I miss Moscow in many ways and still keep
        up
        >
        > close contacts with friends I made there.

        That all makes sense, but the issue is not how big Russia is, or how important
        it should be, or whether the proportion of nice Russians is greater or less
        than the proportion of nice people in other countries.

        > > "Within the UK, monopolies are looked at and you can raise concerns, but
        > > there is no comparable agreement over international monopolies."
        as the liberal bloke said.
        Having such a huge and important industry as gas so completely dominated by
        anyone is a mad risk, and no matter how funky the average Russian is, he lives
        in an unstable country, and the Kremlin is, well... what? Inscrutable?
        Gas has become politicised in Europe like never before. Look at the Baltic
        pipeline, the explosions in Georgia.
        Companies want to make money from it, capitalists would rather feed their own
        pockets (and cocaine, champagne or lobster habits) than their own supposedly
        beloved fatherlands/places of tax-residence/motherlands. Will European
        governments start selling their principles, souls and arses for gas in the same
        way the Yanks (and others) have for oil?
        Looks like they already have.
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