Any foreigner understand contemporary politics?

14.02.06, 15:19
and...
What is your opinion about polish politics/politicians ?

Best regards
hubert

    • nasza_maggie Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 14.02.06, 20:15
      good one for starting a rowsmile

      I don't think Poles understand much of the current situation, let alone
      foreignerssmile)))
      Anyway - politics are b'''''x, anywhere in the worldsmile
    • antoine75 Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 14.02.06, 23:12
      I have been following polish politics for the last five year and i only start
      to understand a little bit of it thanks to my wife who studies psychology. in
      word, politicians in poland don't act as most of us will expect because they
      are driven by totally other goals that in western country. Yesterday's shoz of
      Kaczynski is a very good example of Polish politics....
      • mwanginjagi Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 08:16
        What I can say of Polish Politics? Poland had the best President she would have
        wished to Have... H. E. Hon. Kwasniewski... I don't think there'll be any other
        president in the present and future that can match his Political prowess in
        bringing Poland from a non-existent communist entity to the vibrant Poland that
        we see. This has been a one-man show, and he has lived to his billing!!! It's
        sad Poland could not alter the constitution to allow third presidential term!

        Pozdrawiam
        /Mwangi
        • realitycheck Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 08:51
          ..........
          > It's
          > sad Poland could not alter the constitution to allow third presidential term

          Oh yeah...we know how well that concept works...
        • nearlypolish Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 20:00
          I agree with you somewhat about HRH Kwasniewski, he was, undoubtedly a good
          political animal, clever, adept, skilled in converse & as you say "helped"
          steer Poland in to the arms of the EU.....however we still await the the
          ramifications of the PKN Orlen scandle. He used & abused his power to cover up
          his involvement (& no doubt enrichment). No doubt other items may eventually
          leak out of the political woodwork.
          Time will tell!!!
          Will be interesting to see how the "kaczynski's" perform over the next 12
          months....my prediction is stagnation & argument just like the past
        • bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:30
          well, i am a pole myself so you might think i have somehow a skewed opinion on that.
          however, i think kwasniewski was a good 'nothing'. he didn't annoy anyone, but he didn't do much
          either. EU and NATO were not really his achievements, but a general polish effort.

          to play a significant role in the orange revolution. well, he was in a way pushed to go there anyway. all
          parties except LPR supported polish involvement there.

          did you notice the opinions of experts on the kaczynski's visit in washington? he is much more
          respected due to his character. his words are warmer but at the same time he can make demands. and
          people like to have leaders with character. kwasniewski was just too nothing-like. and maybe this is
          what people liked in him.
          • ianek70 Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 14:17
            bugsior napisał:

            > however, i think kwasniewski was a good 'nothing'. he didn't annoy anyone,
            but
            > he didn't do much
            > either.

            That's true, but it's also why he was so popular (or rather not unpopular). By
            not doing anything he was seen as being a neutral figurehead. He showed a great
            ability to compromise - "I'm not going to do this, but I'm not going to do that
            either."
            And whenever he had to sign anything unpopular, he would always say, "It hurts
            me to do this, but..."

            > did you notice the opinions of experts on the kaczynski's visit in
            washington?
            > he is much more
            > respected due to his character. his words are warmer but at the same time he
            ca
            > n make demands.

            But he still can't make the US lift the visa requirements for Poles.
            • bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 14:46
              > But he still can't make the US lift the visa requirements for Poles.

              the whole discussion about visas is out of place to my mind. it's a simple, straightforward regulation.
              it's math that you cannot just disregard. it has nothing to do with friendship or such. i would be
              actually surprised if they lifted the visa requirements.

              kaczynski was inteligent enough to point out that he knows that it's not up the the president of the us
              to lift these regulations, but he will do everything to weaken them.

              on the other hand, i remember, when kwasniewski was in dc he spoke at the offcial conference about
              the neccessity of us geting rid of the regulation toward poland. american observers couldn't even treat
              him seriusly as he showed no understanding of legal system. this was simply for the polish audience so
              we could 'think' he is such a forceful and demanding leader. nothing more but a theater.
      • bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:25
        would you elaborate on that one? how is polish politics driven by other goals than in the west?
        it's an interesting theory.
    • ianek70 Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 15:42
      haesek napisał:

      > and...
      > What is your opinion about polish politics/politicians ?

      Well, the Self-Righteous Brothers can't rule alone, and the other people you
      voted for (or didn't bother voting against) like the power-crazed little orange-
      skinned clown Lepper and evil scum like that miserable arse Giertych sold their
      souls by signing the aneks do paktu stabilizacyjnego, so it's quite a sad
      situation.
      Even the ones without principles managed to sell their principles, but if
      that's what Poles want...
    • nearlypolish Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 19:52
      Some country has a joke about Polish politics....."put 2 Poles in a room
      together & they would form 3 political parties.."
      Polish politics to me (English man here 13 years) is not much different from
      the UK. In that, it lacks a strong single party & leader.
      It is an injured animal staggering from one corruption scandle to the next &
      achieving little in between. However, it makes for very interesting reading & I
      sometimes gasp at the absolute brazeness at some of the actions of politicians
      here...& some of the clergy!
      • russh Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 23:57
        > Polish politics to me (English man here 13 years) is not much different from
        > the UK. In that, it lacks a strong single party & leader.

        I can't see the comparison. The UK has Blair (I don't like him), who has been a
        strong leader, albeit incompetent in my eyes.

        Do you want a strong 'single' party? Are you wanting a dictatorship?

        I'm new to Polish politics, but it would seem to me, and I can understand why,
        that a stable party political system is still some way off, and the older Poles
        are crying out for the security that the communist system gave them.
        • bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:40
          you are right about poles often recalling communist times with nostalgia. unfortunatelly, they are often
          disappointed with the existing system and sick capitalism. they misinterpret the problems. rather than
          explaining the deficincies of polish capitalism with still weak institutions and legistlation they point out
          to capitalism as a reason for today's mess.

          on the other hand, a presidential, 'winner takes all', single district, majority systems, etc. have better
          governability and accountability in front of the voters. governments are able to implement their
          platform and do not have to engage in such comedies as we can see in poland today.

          and russh believe me, it's far from dictatorship. you still get to elect your leaders in democratic
          elections every 4-5 years. look at the USA.
      • russh Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 16.02.06, 00:00
        'Polish politics to me (English man here 13 years) is not much different from
        he UK. In that, it lacks a strong single party & leader'

        I can't see the comparison. The UK has Blair (I don't like him), who has been a
        strong leader, albeit incompetent in my eyes.

        Do you want a strong 'single' party? Are you wanting a dictatorship?

        I'm new to Polish politics, but it would seem to me, and I can understand why,
        that a stable party political system is still some way off, and the older Poles
        are crying out for the security that the communist system gave them.
        • nasza_maggie Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 16.02.06, 17:16
          hmmm... so you lot are a little clued up thensmile more than me, I think wink
      • bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:33
        it is a general problem of europe where proportional system is in place. supposedly you get a better
        represenation at the expense of governability.

        uk is still pretty different than systems in germany, italy and poland for that matter, where without a
        coaltion you hands are tied.
        • mwanginjagi Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:41
          >signing the aneks do paktu stabilizacyjnego, so it's quite a sad
          >situation.

          Could someone shed some light on "paktu"... I guess it was or is an inter-party
          memorundum of agreement of some sort..didn't hear of it

          Pozdrawiam
          /Mwangi
          • bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:47
            it can be translated as a 'stability pact'. what the practical difference between coalition is, i have no idea
            to be honest. i guess the consequences of breaking it are not as serious. also, the parties that sign a
            pact do not have to be in the government (and that's the case today). they agree on voiting according to
            the government's proposals and support it's actions.

            this pact might be either good or bad for poland, depending on how much of a say samoobrona and
            LPR will have. i hope they will just vote according to what law and justice proposes. in this case they
            would be able to implement their coherient platform. in the more pessimistic scenario those two parties
            might feel strong enough to dictate to certain extent the direction of PiS's governance.
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