haesek 14.02.06, 15:19 and... What is your opinion about polish politics/politicians ? Best regards hubert Odpowiedz Link czytaj wygodnie posty
nasza_maggie Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 14.02.06, 20:15 good one for starting a row I don't think Poles understand much of the current situation, let alone foreigners))) Anyway - politics are b'''''x, anywhere in the world Odpowiedz Link
antoine75 Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 14.02.06, 23:12 I have been following polish politics for the last five year and i only start to understand a little bit of it thanks to my wife who studies psychology. in word, politicians in poland don't act as most of us will expect because they are driven by totally other goals that in western country. Yesterday's shoz of Kaczynski is a very good example of Polish politics.... Odpowiedz Link
mwanginjagi Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 08:16 What I can say of Polish Politics? Poland had the best President she would have wished to Have... H. E. Hon. Kwasniewski... I don't think there'll be any other president in the present and future that can match his Political prowess in bringing Poland from a non-existent communist entity to the vibrant Poland that we see. This has been a one-man show, and he has lived to his billing!!! It's sad Poland could not alter the constitution to allow third presidential term! Pozdrawiam /Mwangi Odpowiedz Link
realitycheck Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 08:51 .......... > It's > sad Poland could not alter the constitution to allow third presidential term Oh yeah...we know how well that concept works... Odpowiedz Link
nearlypolish Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 20:00 I agree with you somewhat about HRH Kwasniewski, he was, undoubtedly a good political animal, clever, adept, skilled in converse & as you say "helped" steer Poland in to the arms of the EU.....however we still await the the ramifications of the PKN Orlen scandle. He used & abused his power to cover up his involvement (& no doubt enrichment). No doubt other items may eventually leak out of the political woodwork. Time will tell!!! Will be interesting to see how the "kaczynski's" perform over the next 12 months....my prediction is stagnation & argument just like the past Odpowiedz Link
bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:30 well, i am a pole myself so you might think i have somehow a skewed opinion on that. however, i think kwasniewski was a good 'nothing'. he didn't annoy anyone, but he didn't do much either. EU and NATO were not really his achievements, but a general polish effort. to play a significant role in the orange revolution. well, he was in a way pushed to go there anyway. all parties except LPR supported polish involvement there. did you notice the opinions of experts on the kaczynski's visit in washington? he is much more respected due to his character. his words are warmer but at the same time he can make demands. and people like to have leaders with character. kwasniewski was just too nothing-like. and maybe this is what people liked in him. Odpowiedz Link
ianek70 Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 14:17 bugsior napisał: > however, i think kwasniewski was a good 'nothing'. he didn't annoy anyone, but > he didn't do much > either. That's true, but it's also why he was so popular (or rather not unpopular). By not doing anything he was seen as being a neutral figurehead. He showed a great ability to compromise - "I'm not going to do this, but I'm not going to do that either." And whenever he had to sign anything unpopular, he would always say, "It hurts me to do this, but..." > did you notice the opinions of experts on the kaczynski's visit in washington? > he is much more > respected due to his character. his words are warmer but at the same time he ca > n make demands. But he still can't make the US lift the visa requirements for Poles. Odpowiedz Link
bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 14:46 > But he still can't make the US lift the visa requirements for Poles. the whole discussion about visas is out of place to my mind. it's a simple, straightforward regulation. it's math that you cannot just disregard. it has nothing to do with friendship or such. i would be actually surprised if they lifted the visa requirements. kaczynski was inteligent enough to point out that he knows that it's not up the the president of the us to lift these regulations, but he will do everything to weaken them. on the other hand, i remember, when kwasniewski was in dc he spoke at the offcial conference about the neccessity of us geting rid of the regulation toward poland. american observers couldn't even treat him seriusly as he showed no understanding of legal system. this was simply for the polish audience so we could 'think' he is such a forceful and demanding leader. nothing more but a theater. Odpowiedz Link
bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:25 would you elaborate on that one? how is polish politics driven by other goals than in the west? it's an interesting theory. Odpowiedz Link
ianek70 Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 15:42 haesek napisał: > and... > What is your opinion about polish politics/politicians ? Well, the Self-Righteous Brothers can't rule alone, and the other people you voted for (or didn't bother voting against) like the power-crazed little orange- skinned clown Lepper and evil scum like that miserable arse Giertych sold their souls by signing the aneks do paktu stabilizacyjnego, so it's quite a sad situation. Even the ones without principles managed to sell their principles, but if that's what Poles want... Odpowiedz Link
nearlypolish Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 19:52 Some country has a joke about Polish politics....."put 2 Poles in a room together & they would form 3 political parties.." Polish politics to me (English man here 13 years) is not much different from the UK. In that, it lacks a strong single party & leader. It is an injured animal staggering from one corruption scandle to the next & achieving little in between. However, it makes for very interesting reading & I sometimes gasp at the absolute brazeness at some of the actions of politicians here...& some of the clergy! Odpowiedz Link
russh Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 15.02.06, 23:57 > Polish politics to me (English man here 13 years) is not much different from > the UK. In that, it lacks a strong single party & leader. I can't see the comparison. The UK has Blair (I don't like him), who has been a strong leader, albeit incompetent in my eyes. Do you want a strong 'single' party? Are you wanting a dictatorship? I'm new to Polish politics, but it would seem to me, and I can understand why, that a stable party political system is still some way off, and the older Poles are crying out for the security that the communist system gave them. Odpowiedz Link
bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:40 you are right about poles often recalling communist times with nostalgia. unfortunatelly, they are often disappointed with the existing system and sick capitalism. they misinterpret the problems. rather than explaining the deficincies of polish capitalism with still weak institutions and legistlation they point out to capitalism as a reason for today's mess. on the other hand, a presidential, 'winner takes all', single district, majority systems, etc. have better governability and accountability in front of the voters. governments are able to implement their platform and do not have to engage in such comedies as we can see in poland today. and russh believe me, it's far from dictatorship. you still get to elect your leaders in democratic elections every 4-5 years. look at the USA. Odpowiedz Link
russh Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 16.02.06, 00:00 'Polish politics to me (English man here 13 years) is not much different from he UK. In that, it lacks a strong single party & leader' I can't see the comparison. The UK has Blair (I don't like him), who has been a strong leader, albeit incompetent in my eyes. Do you want a strong 'single' party? Are you wanting a dictatorship? I'm new to Polish politics, but it would seem to me, and I can understand why, that a stable party political system is still some way off, and the older Poles are crying out for the security that the communist system gave them. Odpowiedz Link
nasza_maggie Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 16.02.06, 17:16 hmmm... so you lot are a little clued up then more than me, I think Odpowiedz Link
bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:33 it is a general problem of europe where proportional system is in place. supposedly you get a better represenation at the expense of governability. uk is still pretty different than systems in germany, italy and poland for that matter, where without a coaltion you hands are tied. Odpowiedz Link
mwanginjagi Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:41 >signing the aneks do paktu stabilizacyjnego, so it's quite a sad >situation. Could someone shed some light on "paktu"... I guess it was or is an inter-party memorundum of agreement of some sort..didn't hear of it Pozdrawiam /Mwangi Odpowiedz Link
bugsior Re: Any foreigner understand contemporary politic 17.02.06, 00:47 it can be translated as a 'stability pact'. what the practical difference between coalition is, i have no idea to be honest. i guess the consequences of breaking it are not as serious. also, the parties that sign a pact do not have to be in the government (and that's the case today). they agree on voiting according to the government's proposals and support it's actions. this pact might be either good or bad for poland, depending on how much of a say samoobrona and LPR will have. i hope they will just vote according to what law and justice proposes. in this case they would be able to implement their coherient platform. in the more pessimistic scenario those two parties might feel strong enough to dictate to certain extent the direction of PiS's governance. Odpowiedz Link