How to live (in the UK) without pisxxxx anyone off

26.02.06, 19:10
I found this post on a Yahoo forum, and thought it superb. Too simple, but as
a basis..... It can obviously be tailored to any country.

'Here's how to restore a bit of harmony before we end up in an Us-vs.-Them
shit-fight. This is for all residents and citizens of the UK - British, Irish
, whoever - please read and digest ...

1. Your religion, your party politics and your sexuality are your own concern
and nobody else's. Leave them in the hall as you go out of the house, they'll
still be there when you get back.
2.Democracy works in all directions. If someone you disagree with gets elected
in a free and open election, don't carp about it. That includes the Far Right,
the Trots and the Monster Raving Looneys.
3. If you hold UK citizenship, you have a right to remain in the UK. If the
way of life in the UK offends you for any reason then you also have the right
to leave. Nobody forces you to stay - cheap air travel is one of the UK's
greatest gifts to the world - stop griping, use it.
4. If (like me) you're a UK native whose family history goes back through
countless British generations, be proud of your heritage. A thousand years of
Christianity plus the Enlightenment have given us a unique culture - don't
throw it on the PC scrapheap.
5. If you're a UK resident whose family background is relatively new to the UK
- respect the country you find yourself in. Don't try to change it to fit your
culture or religion - you'll cause conflict. Imagine the outcome of a band of
radical Christians making a pain of themselves in Saudi Arabia ...
6. You can't have great food from around the globe without cooks from around
the globe to cook it for you. Revel in it!! (This is an analogy, by the way)
7. Stop inventing Isms and Phobias. Homophobia, Sexism, Islamophobia,
Heightism, Ageism - you can junk them all by chanting to yourself the
following mantra - "I shall not be gratuitously offensive."
8. Don't undervalue your religion.
a) it's big enough to be able to ignore insults
b) your all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful god can do his own work - he
doesn't need your misguided contributions.
9. Freedom of Speech doesn't include the freedom to incite violence, nor the
freedom to foment unrest. This applies to ALL of us.
10.You want to win the hearts of Brits & Irish? Easy - just make us laugh and
we'll love you forever. Better still, learn to laugh at yourself - you'll
never be short of amusement.

I shall now indulge in the great cure-all - a nice cup of tea and a biscuit.
Try it, it's a great way of calming down.
    • hardenfelt Re: How to live (in the UK) without pisxxxx anyon 26.02.06, 19:47
      I don’t know. It looks alluring and I do agree that being a foreigner one
      should show respect for ones host country. But I don’t it should ban you from
      having and expressing opinions.

      More so being a European in Poland (or in the UK). I don’t consider myself to
      be a foreigner here. My national identity is European and I’ve been long enough
      in Poland to have and express an opinion on local matters. This includes my
      right to express concern that the present government could develop a political
      system which is not governed by the principles that we normally consider to be
      appropriate in Western Europe.

      Also – confronted with religious remarks I have a right to respond to them – in
      Denmark, the UK, Poland and any other democratic country. I have been proud on
      the few occasions where I have convinced people to exempt their children from
      religious instruction in schools.

      Also I don’t walk around branding my sexual orientation. Nevertheless I think
      that people’s sexuality is an important part of their identity and should
      someone feel the need the express this through dress-code, batches or
      manifestations I don’t see a problem with this. I think conformity could be a
      bigger problem.

      Point 7. We have the concepts, so we need the words. If now we must start
      defining from scratch every time we touch these topics. Or maybe we shouldn’t
      touch these topics at all?


      • russh Re: How to live (in the UK) without pisxxxx anyon 26.02.06, 20:28
        hardenfelt napisał:

        > I don’t know. It looks alluring and I do agree that being a foreigner one
        >
        > should show respect for ones host country. But I don’t it should ban you
        > from
        > having and expressing opinions.

        Agreed. I said it was too simple, but a good start. The title is also 'without
        pissing anyone off', not just some people. The old adage in the UK is 'do not
        bring up politics or religion if you want a peaceful life. Not my style, on
        either count, but it brings it's problems. More so in today's climate, re Muslims.

        My belief is that an immigrant in a country should in general adapt, not the
        other way around. It does not mean that he cannot have his views, and express
        them, but that he should respect the majority views of his adopted country. He
        chose the country, not the other way round (at least in the majority of cases).

        If he tries to change the society forcibly, he will almost inevitably cause
        problems.

        > Also I don’t walk around branding my sexual orientation. Nevertheless I t
        > hink
        > that people’s sexuality is an important part of their identity and should
        >
        > someone feel the need the express this through dress-code, batches or
        > manifestations I don’t see a problem with this. I think conformity could
        > be a
        > bigger problem.

        Absolutely (especially that conformity potentially being a bigger problem).

        > Point 7. We have the concepts, so we need the words. If now we must start
        > defining from scratch every time we touch these topics. Or maybe we shouldnR
        > 17;t
        > touch these topics at all?

        I think he was trying to say that the concepts / realities are as old as man,
        and that in (probably unnecessarily) tagging everything we are becoming 'phobia'
        maniacs, and creating undesired unrest.
    • ianek70 Re: How to live (in the UK) without pisxxxx anyon 26.02.06, 20:35
      russh napisał:

      > I found this post on a Yahoo forum, and thought it superb. Too simple, but as
      > a basis..... It can obviously be tailored to any country.

      There's a lot of common sense in this, but I'd agree with more or less all of
      Hardenfeldt's criticism.
      And, as an embodiment of pluralism and democracy, I'd also add that:

      > 2.Democracy works in all directions. If someone you disagree with gets elected
      > in a free and open election, don't carp about it. That includes the Far Right,
      > the Trots and the Monster Raving Looneys.

      This is, of course, true, but the consequences are different if millions of
      individuals disagree with the results of an election (as happens after every
      election), or if an entire nation or community disagrees with them.
      In the context of the modernised and de-centralised UK, if the Conservative
      party win a general election without any seats in Scotland or Wales, then the
      300-year history of the British state will come to an embarassingly anti-
      climactic end.

      > 4. If (like me) you're a UK native whose family history goes back through
      > countless British generations, be proud of your heritage. A thousand years of
      > Christianity plus the Enlightenment have given us a unique culture - don't
      > throw it on the PC scrapheap.

      A unique but not uniform culture, which has constantly developed and
      progressed, because and/or despite of Christianity and the Enlightenment, and
      will continue to do so as long as there are new ideas. If you don't like the
      new ideas, present better ones.

      > 8. Don't undervalue your religion.

      Religious people never undervalue their religion, often they overvalue it.
      On the other hand, non-religious people often undervalue or underestimate the
      importance of religion to others, just as people of one religion generally
      undervalue other religions.
      There is no solution to this problem.

      > 9. Freedom of Speech doesn't include the freedom to incite violence, nor the
      > freedom to foment unrest. This applies to ALL of us.

      Yeeeeees....
      But "unrest" depends on your point of view. Martial Law was introduced in
      Poland to stop people "fomenting unrest". If people are denied rights,
      especially the right to freedom, they will "foment unrest".
      • russh Re: How to live (in the UK) without pisxxxx anyon 26.02.06, 20:44
        > > 8. Don't undervalue your religion.
        >
        > Religious people never undervalue their religion, often they overvalue it.
        > On the other hand, non-religious people often undervalue or underestimate the
        > importance of religion to others, just as people of one religion generally
        > undervalue other religions.
        > There is no solution to this problem.

        I understood what he was saying as 'if your God is so great, then he can look
        after himself. He doesn't need you to fight his battles for him.


        Re the others comments - agreed, with the exception of the one re the
        Conservatives, for when they win the next election, they will not split the UK,
        even if they have no seats in Scotland or Wales.
        • ianek70 Re: How to live (in the UK) without pisxxxx anyon 26.02.06, 21:21
          russh napisał:

          > I understood what he was saying as 'if your God is so great, then he can look
          > after himself. He doesn't need you to fight his battles for him.

          I'd agree with that, too, but people tend to think that since their god is so
          great they should show him their support in the form of overenthusiastic and
          misplaced help which, of course, he doesn't need.

          > Re the others comments - agreed, with the exception of the one re the
          > Conservatives, for when they win the next election, they will not split the
          UK,
          > even if they have no seats in Scotland or Wales.

          No, they won't, and they don't want to.
          But the decentralised UK will split itself. At times during the last Tory
          government, only one of the 70 Scottish MPs was a Tory, at other times there
          was significantly fewer than one Tory.
          Now the mood has changed and the main debate is about the division of
          responsibilities and loyalties between the Edinburgh and Westminster
          parliaments. This question is impossibly complicated, but as long as there is a
          British government more or less acceptable to most of Scotland, it will remain
          theoretical, as there will be no clean break.
          For the next few decades, though, the Conservative Party will remain marginal
          and only slightly annoying in Scottish politics. If they take power in London,
          then even the most sycophantic pro-British Labour careerists will suddenly
          declare openly that they'd rather rule a small country than be the opposition
          in a large one.
          • russh Re: How to live (in the UK) without pisxxxx anyon 26.02.06, 21:34
            > Now the mood has changed and the main debate is about the division of
            > responsibilities and loyalties between the Edinburgh and Westminster
            > parliaments. This question is impossibly complicated, but as long as there is a
            >
            > British government more or less acceptable to most of Scotland, it will remain
            > theoretical, as there will be no clean break.
            > For the next few decades, though, the Conservative Party will remain marginal
            > and only slightly annoying in Scottish politics. If they take power in London,
            > then even the most sycophantic pro-British Labour careerists will suddenly
            > declare openly that they'd rather rule a small country than be the opposition
            > in a large one.

            For sure. Politicians, especially the 'New Labour' ones, like power more than
            principle. Sad but true.

            It would be a great pity for the UK to be split - each element has an intrinsic
            need for each other, notwithstanding the cross-border jibes.
            • ianek70 Re: How to live (in the UK) without pisxxxx anyon 26.02.06, 22:11
              russh napisał:

              > For sure. Politicians, especially the 'New Labour' ones, like power more than
              > principle. Sad but true.

              Human nature, I suppose. You can always have principles but you can't always
              have power.
              Every sell-out is temporary...
        • usenetposts Re: How to live (in the UK) without pisxxxx anyon 27.02.06, 01:36
          russh napisał:

          > > > 8. Don't undervalue your religion.
          > >
          > > Religious people never undervalue their religion, often they overvalue it
          > .
          > > On the other hand, non-religious people often undervalue or underestimate
          > the
          > > importance of religion to others, just as people of one religion generall
          > y
          > > undervalue other religions.
          > > There is no solution to this problem.
          >
          > I understood what he was saying as 'if your God is so great, then he can look
          > after himself. He doesn't need you to fight his battles for him.
          >

          It is at face value true that God doesn't need us to fight his battles for him,
          but truth, love, honour, and all these things are also so great that I can tell
          myself they will go on without my needing to fight for them, and yet it is a
          priviledge and a duty to stand up for what you believe in.

          I have noticed that atheists have often no qualms at all about standing up for
          their set of convictions, and if I am not to stand up for mine then how many
          times will that be resting in God's sovereignty and how many times will it be
          out of laziness or fear?

          God is able to sort all the problems out, but that's not the game plan for the
          kind of world he made here - it is a lot more complex than that and human
          beings are called to be the players in this game, not just the passive victims
          of what fate or Providence might deal to them.

          We can observe, we can act, we can speak out. We don't just have to observe
          from the sidelines. God has ordered hings so that what we do does in fact make
          a difference, and yet He is still in control of all things.

          That's how I see it.
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