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sex trade in Ukraine

01.03.06, 01:52
I watched a show on PBS the other day and I was totally shocked. Prior to
that I honestly didn't know anything about the illegal sex business in
eastern European countries (talking Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Romania, etc).
The show was about a sting operation that had begun in Ukraine and ended up
in Turkey. They were supposed to rescue this absolutely gorgeous young woman
(originally from Kiev) from the pawns of her john who later sold her like a
piece of meat for US$2000 to another john. It was all about the sex trade in
Turkey and how young women looking for a job end up as sex slaves, usually
tortured and beaten all at the same time. Once they make it into Turkey it's
usually too late for them and they become victims of the underground sex-
trafficking and abhorring sex exploitation. Many of them die there. The
images were shocking, very graphic and too painful to watch at times.

Do they tell people about all this on Polish Television too?

The saddest part was to see the totally corrupt Turkish police who managed to
blew the entire sting operation only because some of them were part of the
same sex trafficking rings. A total catch 22. I felt so sorry for those
girls. They were scared, lost and their own governmnet couldn't be bothered
to protect them. Needless to say, those that that managed to come back were
not the same women any more and yet the system was not set up to provide
psychological help, counselling or any other assistance.
Very saaaad.
Obserwuj wątek
    • usenetposts Re: sex trade in Ukraine 01.03.06, 02:02
      kylie1 napisała:

      > I watched a show on PBS the other day and I was totally shocked. Prior to
      > that I honestly didn't know anything about the illegal sex business in
      > eastern European countries (talking Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Romania, etc).
      > The show was about a sting operation that had begun in Ukraine and ended up
      > in Turkey. They were supposed to rescue this absolutely gorgeous young woman
      > (originally from Kiev) from the pawns of her john who later sold her like a
      > piece of meat for US$2000 to another john. It was all about the sex trade in
      > Turkey and how young women looking for a job end up as sex slaves, usually
      > tortured and beaten all at the same time. Once they make it into Turkey it's
      > usually too late for them and they become victims of the underground sex-
      > trafficking and abhorring sex exploitation. Many of them die there. The
      > images were shocking, very graphic and too painful to watch at times.
      >
      > Do they tell people about all this on Polish Television too?

      You get the usual bland stuff, but of course it is going on here in every block
      and the police and the politicians are all in cahoots about it. I know someone
      who had the self same thing happen to her and she was imprisoned for a while in
      a house in Warsaw and had to service members of the then Polish government,
      right up to the then _Prime Minister_ of this country, against her will until
      she managed to escape.

      It also happens in the UK. Try reading High Society by Ben Elton. That account
      seems absolutely consistent with other accounts I heard first hand, not only in
      the media.

      Of course it is highly shocking, but there is no will do to anything about it
      when even such dignitaries as peers of the realm and would be Lord Mayors, not
      to mention the actor who was with a woman I consider to be a coronation of
      female beauty Liz Hurley use paid sex and men simply want to have prostitutes
      around so that they can use them. The clients are not, in the main, bothered
      about these people as human beings. They simply want to slake their sexual
      thirst without investing time into it and with the expectation - often
      overrated though - of discretion.
      • kylie1 Re: sex trade in Ukraine 01.03.06, 05:14
        The clients are not, in the main, bothered
        > about these people as human beings. They simply want to slake their sexual
        > thirst without investing time into it and with the expectation - often
        > overrated though - of discretion.

        I agree. This is not an isolated example. It's an organized crime, a real mafia
        of johns protected by police and corrupt politicians. I mean, where do you
        start? It was so hard to watch all this. The hardest for me was to see all
        those girls come home so hurt and so bruised up inside they really didn't know
        how to function even with family by their side. A horrible story of sexual
        abuse survivors and trauma, I am sure, they will have to live with for the rest
        of their lives.
        • varsovian Re: sex trade in Ukraine 01.03.06, 10:48
          I never thought about prostitution until I came face-to-face with it while
          doing charity work in Belgium - misery, drugs and organised crime. Despite
          having ample opportunity to get my end away, I found the whole thing a complete
          turn-off. Aversion therapy writ large.
          • portulaco Re: sex trade in Ukraine 01.03.06, 12:14
            Probably you don't know but many of this girls are send to Portugal and Spain
            with a promise of a well payed job, such a small country but full of ilegal
            immigrants, prostitutes from Ukraine, Moldova, Romenia, Georgia, Albania and of
            course Brazil.

            Most of the places were this girls work are placed in small towns and villages
            to be far away from autorities.

            Together with this girls there are also the slave workers, transported ilegaly
            by the Eastern Europe Mafia to work in the magnificent projects such as Expo
            98, Euro 2004 and other constructions of the Portuguese government.

            In Spain they have the strawberry plantations in the Southern Spain and in the
            Estremadura were people are kept literally in slavery, with poor conditions,
            not enough food and lack of higiene.

            Because Portugal is the kind of country that nobody really cares about, often
            considered as a province of Spain, this shameless situation persists while the
            fat and bussy EU politicians and ministers fight for more surveilance againts
            terrorism, the subsidiaries for French peasents to buy Renault tractors and all
            the other prioritary economical subjects.



            • bartis_ervin Re: sex trade in Ukraine 02.03.06, 18:32

              I was shocked when I heard that in the Katowice area the mothers/wifes were
              going for "weekend" prostitution to Germany. Every Friday afternoon there were
              minivans taking the women and bringing them back on Sunday night.
              In many cases the family lived on the money earned by the wife.

              Ervin

              Thebartiski.blogspot.com
                • hardenfelt Re: sex trade in Ukraine 02.03.06, 20:54
                  usenetposts napisał:

                  > If a man does that to his wife, then he certainly doesn't love her. he might
                  > TELL her that he loves her, but it's a krokaszyt.

                  Do you really think you are able to judge about other people’s feelings?
                  • usenetposts Re: sex trade in Ukraine 03.03.06, 00:35
                    hardenfelt napisał:

                    > usenetposts napisał:
                    >
                    > > If a man does that to his wife, then he certainly doesn't love her. he mi
                    > ght
                    > > TELL her that he loves her, but it's a krokaszyt.
                    >
                    > Do you really think you are able to judge about other people’s feelings?

                    Of course. Human beings are actually all very similar to each other.
                    If not, prove it scientifically.
                    • hardenfelt Re: sex trade in Ukraine 03.03.06, 08:00
                      Prove what? – That Christianity narrow the human mind? You will have to take my
                      word for it.

                      Actually human minds are very are very heterogeneous. You will find very
                      few “normal people”. However religion has for thousands of years been used to
                      control the human mind and this has reflected on our culture. It’s the most
                      suppressing system ever invented – much worse than both Hitler and Stalin. I’m
                      not surprised that you as a representative of this system claim that people are
                      similar as this is one of the core dogmas of this sect: we shall all be the
                      same.
                      • russh Re: sex trade in Ukraine 03.03.06, 09:27
                        'However religion has for thousands of years been used to
                        control the human mind and this has reflected on our culture. It’s the most
                        suppressing system ever invented'

                        Religion, or the church. I don't think they are necessarily the same thing. I
                        also think that not all churches / religions have the same ideals and practices.
                        A very interesting post though, and one that I more than partially concur with.

                      • usenetposts Re: sex trade in Ukraine 03.03.06, 11:22
                        hardenfelt napisał:

                        > Prove what? – That Christianity narrow the human mind? You will have to t
                        > ake my
                        > word for it.
                        >
                        > Actually human minds are very are very heterogeneous. You will find very
                        > few “normal people”. However religion has for thousands of years be
                        > en used to
                        > control the human mind and this has reflected on our culture. It’s the mo
                        > st
                        > suppressing system ever invented – much worse than both Hitler and Stalin
                        > . I’m
                        > not surprised that you as a representative of this system claim that people
                        are
                        >
                        > similar as this is one of the core dogmas of this sect: we shall all be the
                        > same.

                        OK, let's have a recap at this point shall we?

                        I say, that if a husband can take his wife and happily send her off to earn
                        money for him by sleeping with clients in Germany, that he doesn't love her,
                        and you ask how I judge another's feelings. I say to this that humans are
                        similar enough that I can judge that he doesn't love her from his behaviour
                        towards her.

                        You then go into a diatribe about religion.

                        Let me tell you this, if you think someone can truly love a woman, and yet pimp
                        her ass out so as to buy beer and fags for him, then I can tell you that most
                        people will agree with me that he has a pretty lousy kind of love for this
                        woman, in fact, he only loves himself.

                        If religion were only there to ensure that everyone felt the same about that,
                        and didn't leave people with their wandering minds thinking that this guy has a
                        groovy, swinging kind of love for his wife that he prostitutes out to all
                        comers, then it would be worth having just for that even if no religion were
                        true.

                        In fact, if anyone thinks that a man who pimps his wife seriously loves her,
                        that person probably has a disordered soul and should, like, get on their knees
                        very quickly.
                        • russh Re: sex trade in Ukraine 03.03.06, 16:08
                          > Let me tell you this, if you think someone can truly love a woman, and yet pimp
                          >
                          > her ass out so as to buy beer and fags for him, then I can tell you that most
                          > people will agree with me that he has a pretty lousy kind of love for this
                          > woman, in fact, he only loves himself.

                          No doubt. Religion has nothing to do with it - it is simple human behaviour - no
                          normal man would pimp his wife.
                        • hardenfelt Re: sex trade in Ukraine 03.03.06, 16:36
                          David wrote:
                          I say, that if a husband can take his wife and happily send her off to earn
                          > money for him by sleeping with clients in Germany, that he doesn't love her,
                          > and you ask how I judge another's feelings. I say to this that humans are
                          > similar enough that I can judge that he doesn't love her from his behaviour
                          > towards her.

                          I’m sorry if this sounds personal, but I think you are narrow minded. You
                          evaluate people on the basis of your own life experience, and even if you
                          travelled a lot and met a lot of people I think you’re the inputs you got were
                          superficial and coloured by your outlook on life.

                          You use very elastic terms like “love” and “friends”. You claim to love
                          everyone as a Christian and you also claim to love your wife. You also greet
                          everyone on the forum as a friend. Now – to me this is an abuse of these
                          terms. I would call it hypocritical. I believe you lie when you claim to love
                          everyone and consider everyone on this forum a friend. In that case you may
                          also lie about loving your wife.

                          Anyway I don’t think you’ll able to define love in a way that satisfy
                          everyone. For some people this is spiritual and for some people this is a more
                          fleshy feeling. and for others yet something else. And to claim that you cannot
                          love your wife because she works as a prostitute is nonsense. Some guys would
                          be wildly lewd by the fact that their wife is with another man and even getting
                          money for it. For some people the erotic attraction might have gone and love
                          has developed into a deep friendship/ partnership. Many guys marry prostitutes
                          because they are fascinated with this world. In some cultures prostitution is a
                          normal way of living and letting your wife work as a prostitute is socially
                          acceptable (I don’t talk about what has developed into mass tourist factory
                          prostitution in some countries).

                          I though agree that if you consider prostitution to be detestable, then you
                          would not love your wife if you accept her working in this business. But not
                          everyone considers prostitution to be detestable.

                          David wrote:

                          > In fact, if anyone thinks that a man who pimps his wife seriously loves her,
                          > that person probably has a disordered soul

                          Most people have what you term “disordered souls”. To find someone “normal” is
                          very hard.
                          • usenetposts Re: sex trade in Ukraine 04.03.06, 13:17
                            hardenfelt napisał:

                            > David wrote:
                            > I say, that if a husband can take his wife and happily send her off to earn
                            > > money for him by sleeping with clients in Germany, that he doesn't love h
                            > er,
                            > > and you ask how I judge another's feelings. I say to this that humans are
                            >
                            > > similar enough that I can judge that he doesn't love her from his behavio
                            > ur
                            > > towards her.
                            >
                            > I’m sorry if this sounds personal, but I think you are narrow minded. Yo
                            > u
                            > evaluate people on the basis of your own life experience, and even if you
                            > travelled a lot and met a lot of people I think you’re the inputs you got
                            > were
                            > superficial and coloured by your outlook on life.

                            Whereas yours weren't, I suppose?

                            >
                            > You use very elastic terms like “love” and “friends”. Y
                            > ou claim to love
                            > everyone as a Christian and you also claim to love your wife. You also greet
                            > everyone on the forum as a friend. Now – to me this is an abuse of these
                            > terms. I would call it hypocritical.

                            You would prefer me to treat people who come here as guests without the
                            standards of friendliness that I have tried to maintain?

                            Now please note, I think you will not find that I claim to love everyone as a
                            Christian. That would have been hypocritical, but I think if you read carefully
                            that I will have put in the qualifier that I am supposed to do that, or that I
                            try to do that. Of course I am not capable of loving everyone or being
                            everyone's friend. I seek to follow Jesus, but am all too painfully aware that
                            I am very far from being like Him, although believers are according to the
                            Bible over the course of their lives being changed to be more like Him, and so
                            I can definitely say I am more like Him than I would be if I were not a
                            believer, although that might not be saying much. In the twinkling of an eye,
                            we shall all be changed, it says, and when we see him, we shall be like Him.
                            When we go to heaven, we will already be changed and capable of being truly
                            loving.

                            That having been said I go out of my way to be welcoming, loving and friendly
                            to people here, and when I fail, then that's what it is, a failure. I don't say
                            I am always in the right.

                            I do say I'm human, not superhuman, so you can expect all sorts of flaws and
                            failures from me.

                            Tough, if you don't like that.

                            >I believe you lie when you claim to love
                            > everyone and consider everyone on this forum a friend. In that case you may
                            > also lie about loving your wife.

                            Well, you know, it says in Paul's letter to the Ephesians, if I remember right
                            in Chapter 5 "husbands love your wives, even as Christ loved the Church, and
                            gave himself up for it". Does my love for my wife equate to the love Christ had
                            for the Church? Of course not. I am not perfect, and so neither is my loive
                            perfect.

                            That having been said, I think that love means not using someone and making
                            themdo something against their will so that you don't have to do it. It is very
                            natural to protect the object of our love, not pimp it out on the Reeperbahn
                            and Charlottenburg.

                            > Anyway I don’t think you’ll able to define love in a way that satis
                            > fy
                            > everyone. For some people this is spiritual and for some people this is a more
                            >
                            > fleshy feeling. and for others yet something else. And to claim that you
                            cannot
                            >
                            > love your wife because she works as a prostitute is nonsense. Some guys would
                            > be wildly lewd by the fact that their wife is with another man and even
                            getting
                            >
                            > money for it. For some people the erotic attraction might have gone and love
                            > has developed into a deep friendship/ partnership. Many guys marry prostitutes
                            >
                            > because they are fascinated with this world. In some cultures prostitution is
                            a
                            >
                            > normal way of living and letting your wife work as a prostitute is socially
                            > acceptable (I don’t talk about what has developed into mass tourist fact
                            > ory
                            > prostitution in some countries).
                            >
                            > I though agree that if you consider prostitution to be detestable, then you
                            > would not love your wife if you accept her working in this business. But not
                            > everyone considers prostitution to be detestable.
                            >

                            Not every man, I dare say, but most women are not working in it for kicks. They
                            may work in it to avoid kicks. Of another kind.

                            I understand all you say about a man getting turned on by the fact that he is
                            sleeping for free with a woman that other men have paid to sleep with. I call
                            this the Iago Complex, and if you've read Shakespeare's Othello, and the
                            context of the phrase "tis the strumpet's plague, to beguile many, and be
                            beguiled by one" then you'll understand why.

                            Nevertheless, I think that it is a low kind of man who will sell his wife for
                            sex so that he himself can have spending money. This may have a sexual appeal,
                            but it has nothing to do with the Christian model of love. It smacks of the
                            slavery of the devil.

                            > David wrote:
                            >
                            > > In fact, if anyone thinks that a man who pimps his wife seriously loves h
                            > er,
                            > > that person probably has a disordered soul
                            >
                            > Most people have what you term “disordered souls”. To find someone
                            > “normal” is
                            > very hard.

                            Amen to that. Thankfully, there is a doctor.
                      • usenetposts Re: sex trade in Ukraine 03.03.06, 11:28
                        hardenfelt napisał:

                        > Prove what? – That Christianity narrow the human mind? You will have to t
                        > ake my
                        > word for it.
                        >
                        > Actually human minds are very are very heterogeneous. You will find very
                        > few “normal people”. However religion has for thousands of years be
                        > en used to
                        > control the human mind and this has reflected on our culture. It’s the mo
                        > st
                        > suppressing system ever invented – much worse than both Hitler and Stalin
                        > . I’m
                        > not surprised that you as a representative of this system claim that people
                        are
                        >
                        > similar as this is one of the core dogmas of this sect: we shall all be the
                        > same.

                        And then the other thing I have to say about this is, if you think we are so
                        hiomogeneous, then you probably don't understand the latest theories by
                        evolutionists on why species are the way they are. Although there are
                        mutations, genetically speaking we are incredibly similar. That's how we can
                        all learn the same languages and use them and understand each other.

                        But the human race did not get this way by pimping out its females. That is a
                        worthless aberration in evolutionary terms. It may be a survival trait for a
                        woman to betray a weak husband to get a stronger biological father for the
                        offspring, but it's quite the opposite of that for the man who lets her do it.

                        It looks like you don't believe in evolution, Michael. You'd make a good fundy.
                        You should consider coming over to my side of the debate.
                        • hardenfelt Re: sex trade in Ukraine 03.03.06, 16:39
                          David wrote:
                          > And then the other thing I have to say about this is, if you think we are so
                          > hiomogeneous, then you probably don't understand the latest theories by
                          > evolutionists on why species are the way they are. Although there are
                          > mutations, genetically speaking we are incredibly similar. That's how we can
                          > all learn the same languages and use them and understand each other.

                          Yes – I read somewhere that we share 99% of our genes with a certain sort of
                          monkeys. And so what? Close and far are relative concepts. Like a girl claimed
                          here some time ago: “some like black skin and some like big tits”. The
                          differences are much bigger though. We all have a mental disorder. We can try
                          to cure this with the Koran or psychiatrists or we can try to accept that this
                          is normal.


                          David wrote:
                          But the human race did not get this way by pimping out its females. That is a
                          > worthless aberration in evolutionary terms. It may be a survival trait for a
                          > woman to betray a weak husband to get a stronger biological father for the
                          > offspring, but it's quite the opposite of that for the man who lets her do it.

                          I don’t know if it’s a survival trait. I’m not very interested in evolution.
                          But I think it’s unnatural for both men and women to be monogamous. And they
                          are not (just look at the studies on the amount of people having another
                          biological father than the official). People actually fuck (as far as I’ve
                          heard even The Holy Book has such examples). Without religion and churches and
                          preachers people would be able to live a healthy polygamous life without
                          remorse.

                          David wrote:

                          It looks like you don't believe in evolution, Michael.

                          Interesting remark from a creationist!
              • kylie1 Re: sex trade in Ukraine 04.03.06, 03:12
                If that's the case and this is the only money that puts food on the table, I
                don't think we have the right to judge or condemn anyone.
                If I had a family and my kids went without food every single day, I could not
                bear to watch them starve. Sure my husband wouldn't like it but like food, self-
                respect is a question of recognizing that anything worth having has a price. If
                it costs me my self-esteem and my-self respect, so be it. I won't let my family
                go hungry.
                Right before this last xmas, the TV news showed a family from a tiny village
                somewhere in the south eastern part part of Poland. The couple had 7 kids and
                none of them went to school. Reason: they had no shoes! The governmnet subsidy
                was redicously low, a drop in the bucket towards all their needs. I can't
                forget the way they sat them all down for the camera - all in a row in wooden
                chairs, side by side. The kids were looking down the entire time and no one
                smiled. It was so depressing and so sad. Then they showed the mother who was
                doing her entire laundry in an old fashioned zinc tub...outside and all by
                hand. I think I would go nuts. Two of those kids were very small, one still in
                diapers. I really don't know how she did it...
              • marcus_anglikiem Re: sex trade in Ukraine 03.03.06, 20:02
                The saddest thing is, that this has been going on all across Europe for so
                long, and it will never stop and THE REASON IS THAT the people with the power
                to stop it (Politicians) DON'T GIVE A FUCK about anyone but themselves
                (Especially British politicians)... they are inhuman, sick in the head...
      • usenetposts Re: sex trade in Ukraine - ATTENTION / UWAGA 20.03.06, 20:37
        marcus_anglikiem napisał:

        > I appeal to you all, as citizens of Europe and the World, to watch the film
        > "Lilya 4-Ever" by Lukas Moodysson.
        > Proponuję Państwu, jako mieszkańcy i Europy i świata, oglądać film
        > Lukas'a Moodyssona "Lilja 4-Ever".

        Maybe you could tell us something more about it and why you recommend it?
        • marcus_anglikiem Re: sex trade in Ukraine - ATTENTION / UWAGA 21.03.06, 21:48
          A comprehensive review of the film is given at
          www.imdb.com/title/tt0300140/ under the heading 'user reviews'
          The film illustrates the tragedy that we as a society seem to choose to ignore,
          namely human trafficking, the commodification of human life, and the
          unforgiveable abuse of the young and vulnerable... this film may bring tears to
          your eyes and leave a residue in your soul.
          • usenetposts Re: sex trade in Ukraine - ATTENTION / UWAGA 22.03.06, 11:29
            marcus_anglikiem napisał:

            > A comprehensive review of the film is given at
            > www.imdb.com/title/tt0300140/ under the heading 'user reviews'
            > The film illustrates the tragedy that we as a society seem to choose to
            ignore,
            >
            > namely human trafficking, the commodification of human life, and the
            > unforgiveable abuse of the young and vulnerable... this film may bring tears
            to
            >
            > your eyes and leave a residue in your soul.

            Thanks for that, I'll definitely look out for it.
    • ianek70 Re: sex trade in Ukraine 23.03.06, 10:53
      It's everywhere, there's a lot of perverts in the world, and a lot of cynical
      scum who'll do anything and exploit anyone for big money.
      www.theherald.co.uk/news/58705.html
      In Scotland it's concentrated in the major cities (particularly Edinburgh,
      where they have no morals) and prostitution is quite rare in the rest of the
      country. Probably because Scots are too attractive to need it.
      A long time ago in Paisley, police shut down a massage parlour after extensive
      and tiring undercover work. "We visited the premises on 73 occasions and each
      time we were offered sex," they told the local paper.
      And there was also an enterprising young deviant who kept a sheep in his flat
      and pimped it out to sheepshaggers.

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