Belarus

03.03.06, 01:46
I am curious what will the outcome be.....
And will others just stand back and watch.....

wolnabialorus.org/
    • usenetposts Re: Belarus 03.03.06, 11:00
      It's difficult for me to comment, but it seems that Lukashenko has now missed
      his opportunity for retiring gracefully a very rich man.

      It's likely to be a toppling for him now.

      Maybe its not too late for him to negotiate a round table style deal for
      himself in exchange for an elegant hand over of power, rather than bloodshed.
      If he wants help in doing so, I'm sure there would be no shortage of takers in
      the political and diplomatic world who would advocate for him.
      • nasza_maggie Re: Belarus 03.03.06, 15:08
        revolution?
        • usenetposts Re: Belarus 04.03.06, 01:00
          If they do have one, let's hope they make a better job of it than the Ukraine
          did.

          Remember that Belarus has less freedom, but has far fewer people below the
          poverty line than the Ukraine.
          • nasza_maggie Re: Belarus 04.03.06, 11:52
            I'm not sure about that.
            But I think in terms of revolution, Putin won't let Belarus go so lightly.

            As far as judging the situation in the Ukraine it is too early to see the
            outcome. a year is nothing in such a situation.

            Ofcourse none of the political squabble there surprise me, you only nedd to
            look at the last 15 years in Polandsmile

            At the end of the day it turns out the word 'democracy' means something
            different to many of the political options.
            • usenetposts Re: Belarus 04.03.06, 12:56
              nasza_maggie napisała:

              > I'm not sure about that.

              Well, you know I've made numerous visits.

              Another thing is that about 30% of the population present in Belarus is
              Ukrainian - they go there to get work which they cannot get at home.

              > But I think in terms of revolution, Putin won't let Belarus go so lightly.

              Lukashenko has embarrassed Putin on more than one occasion, and I wouldn't be
              surprised if Putin actually calls the place to order in the end.

              > As far as judging the situation in the Ukraine it is too early to see the
              > outcome. a year is nothing in such a situation.

              The upsetting thing is the way the new guys immediately started getting into
              get rich quick schemes. The action of Yushchenko in clearing them out is of
              course very positive, but still nothing much seems to be happening there yet.

              >
              > Ofcourse none of the political squabble there surprise me, you only nedd to
              > look at the last 15 years in Polandsmile
              >
              > At the end of the day it turns out the word 'democracy' means something
              > different to many of the political options.

              In point of fact, there probably aren't any on this planet.

              But still, it is an ideal we need to adhere to, and maybe the internet
              technology will help democratic rule along. I think it already has a bit.
              • nasza_maggie Re: Belarus 20.03.06, 02:13
                fingers crossed wink
              • ianek70 Re: Ukraine 20.03.06, 11:27
                usenetposts napisał:


                > > As far as judging the situation in the Ukraine it is too early to see the
                >
                > > outcome. a year is nothing in such a situation.
                >
                > The upsetting thing is the way the new guys immediately started getting into
                > get rich quick schemes. The action of Yushchenko in clearing them out is of
                > course very positive, but still nothing much seems to be happening there yet.
                >

                Ukraine was (is?) genuinely divided, both politically and geographically, as
                even the Polish media mentioned and occasionally even explained.
                There were several candidates in the presidential elections there, but since
                the results were falsified by (or on behalf of) a corrupt, populist pseudo-
                leftist, immediately there were all these orange ribbons everywhere on the
                front pages of Polish newspapers and portals and demands that the corrupt,
                populist Tory candidate be made president. No talk of a second round of voting.

                Polish newspapers carry stories every day on page 1 about corruption and
                unemployment in PL, and on page 2 about how arrogant Lukashenko is to accuse
                Poland of having corruption and high unemployment.
                They mentioned today on Radio 3 that the official results in the Belarus
                elections gave the Pres 82%, but according to unofficial results he got less
                than 50% and it should go to a 2nd round.
                Lukashenko is a crook (I have to be careful what I say, in PL it's illegal to
                criticise the heads of certain states) and possibly a maniac, but he got over
                40% of the vote.
                Did people vote for him simply because they were brainwashed?
                Did people vote against him simply because they don't like being brainwashed?
                I think it's probably far more complicated than that, although I've never been
                to Belarus, but for the next few weeks we'll just read simplistic crap in
                Polish papers about how great one of the opposition candidates is. Inform
                people, have honest, fair elections then kick out Lukashenko and lock him up if
                that's what the majority decide in a democratic election. A democratic decision
                will probably be different from an undemocratic one, but you can't decide that
                in advance...
                What colour ribbons will we see everywhere tomorrow?
                • usenetposts Re: Belarus won't move without Europe's commitment 20.03.06, 12:21
                  ianek70 napisał:

                  > usenetposts napisał:
                  >
                  >
                  > > > As far as judging the situation in the Ukraine it is too early to s
                  > ee the
                  > >
                  > > > outcome. a year is nothing in such a situation.
                  > >
                  > > The upsetting thing is the way the new guys immediately started getting i
                  > nto
                  > > get rich quick schemes. The action of Yushchenko in clearing them out is
                  > of
                  > > course very positive, but still nothing much seems to be happening there
                  > yet.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Ukraine was (is?) genuinely divided, both politically and geographically, as
                  > even the Polish media mentioned and occasionally even explained.
                  > There were several candidates in the presidential elections there, but since
                  > the results were falsified by (or on behalf of) a corrupt, populist pseudo-
                  > leftist, immediately there were all these orange ribbons everywhere on the
                  > front pages of Polish newspapers and portals and demands that the corrupt,
                  > populist Tory candidate be made president. No talk of a second round of
                  voting.
                  >
                  > Polish newspapers carry stories every day on page 1 about corruption and
                  > unemployment in PL, and on page 2 about how arrogant Lukashenko is to accuse
                  > Poland of having corruption and high unemployment.
                  > They mentioned today on Radio 3 that the official results in the Belarus
                  > elections gave the Pres 82%, but according to unofficial results he got less
                  > than 50% and it should go to a 2nd round.
                  > Lukashenko is a crook (I have to be careful what I say, in PL it's illegal to
                  > criticise the heads of certain states) and possibly a maniac, but he got over
                  > 40% of the vote.
                  > Did people vote for him simply because they were brainwashed?
                  > Did people vote against him simply because they don't like being brainwashed?
                  > I think it's probably far more complicated than that, although I've never
                  been
                  > to Belarus, but for the next few weeks we'll just read simplistic crap in
                  > Polish papers about how great one of the opposition candidates is. Inform
                  > people, have honest, fair elections then kick out Lukashenko and lock him up
                  if
                  >
                  > that's what the majority decide in a democratic election. A democratic
                  decision
                  >
                  > will probably be different from an undemocratic one, but you can't decide
                  that
                  > in advance...
                  > What colour ribbons will we see everywhere tomorrow?

                  With regard to Lukashenko and his election, one can I think fairly say the
                  following:

                  1) He refused to have foreign, neutral observers - even from Russia - on
                  Belarusian soil during the elections

                  2) Prior to the elections, his supporters used intimidatory tactics on the
                  Opposition leaders and on potential demonstators, even using Velkom to send an
                  SMS to every person

                  3) He is running a system which is not accountable either to Moscow fully nor
                  to the EU. His way of running a state is getting in the way of a more united
                  Europe and is adding to the barriers between Russia and the EU.

                  4) Certain human rights, but by no means all, are causing concern in that
                  country, but it is not causing concern with regard to freedom of religion in
                  the main, and also the level of prosperity there, despite the adherence to the
                  system of command economy, seems higher than in the Ukraine.

                  5) Every country that relinquishes the command economy and returns to the free
                  market system undergoes a period of inflation, instability and pain. The longer
                  the command system lasts, the more painful it is to undo.

                  6) Belarus is an Agrarian state with few mineral resources or other industries
                  that could suport 10 million people. Therefore the best option for the country
                  is to be programmed in to biofuels production programmes and to have a major re-
                  forestation programme. We would need to introduce work permits for young people
                  into Poland at an early point and we should start by taking the graduates of
                  their universities and colleges to train for a few years. If there is no major
                  help for them planned by Europe (and no such noises were made so what was there
                  to be gained by ordinary people to vote against Lukashenko in this election?)
                  then they may easily - in the short term - be better off as they are or even in
                  handing the keys back to Putin.
    • russh Re: Belarus 20.03.06, 06:41
      Here's an article from Yahoo

      'MINSK (AFP) - When his mobile phone beeped to signal a new text message,
      Anatoly Korshunov thought a friend was calling. Instead it was a lesson in
      politics
    • nasza_maggie Re: Belarus 21.03.06, 12:11
      Will it all go off once the media has gone back home?

      --
      www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2095160,00.html
      Revolution stops here scoffs 'the last dictator'
      From Jeremy Page in Minsk

      Alexander Lukashenko declared that he had thwarted a Western plot by winning a
      presidential election dismissed as a farce


      PRESIDENT LUKASHENKO of Belarus declared yesterday that he had thwarted a
      Western plot to overthrow him, pouring scorn on the thousands who protested
      against his election victory.
      About 5,000 opposition supporters protested again last night, setting up a
      dozen tents in central Minsk, after Western observers said that Sunday’s
      presidential poll had failed to meet international standards.



      The US, which has branded Mr Lukashenko “Europe’s last dictator”, denounced his
      victory and backed opposition calls for a new election. The EU said that it
      would impose more visa bans on Belarussian officials.

      But President Putin of Russia quickly congratulated Mr Lukashenko, highlighting
      the Kremlin’s determination to prevent another revolution in a former Soviet
      state. “The results of the election testify to the fact that the voters trust
      in your course,” he said.

      Mr Lukashenko brushed aside his critics at a two-hour celebratory news
      conference. “The revolution that was so much talked about, and so much prepared
      for, failed. It couldn’t be otherwise,” he began, prompting applause from the
      600 audience members — mostly state officials.

      He derided the 10,000 people who demonstrated on Oktyabrskaya Square on Sunday
      night despite driving snow and a threat from the KGB chief that they could face
      the death penalty. “You saw the people who went on to the square. They were
      good-for-nothings.” He even suggested that God had intervened by sending a
      blizzard at the height of the protest. It was a vintage performance by the
      former collective farm manager who has resurrected Soviet-style economic and
      political controls since he was elected in 1994.

      He sat alone beneath a giant plastic model of the Soviet-era national emblem,
      which he revived after taking power. A map of Europe showed Belarus to be about
      the size of France.

      In one particularly stage-managed exchange, Sergei Gaydukevich, a candidate in
      the election who was widely regarded as a stooge, stood up to congratulate Mr
      Lukashenko. The President responded that he had voted for Mr Gaydukevich. “I
      have a tradition that I don’t vote for myself,” he said.

      A Serbian woman asked if she could kiss Mr Lukashenko, on behalf of all Serbian
      women, for travelling to Belgrade while it was being bombed by Nato. When a
      French journalist asked about his threat to “break the neck” of anyone
      organising protests, he responded: “Is your neck broken?”

      Shown on national television, the conference was sure to appeal to his
      supporters in the countryside and the elderly. However, it only reinforced his
      image among younger Belarussians and most Westerners as a deluded megalomaniac.

      Diplomats said that the result would exacerbate tensions between the West and
      Russia in Moscow’s first year as president of the G8 group.

      The Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, the human rights and
      security body, gave a damning assessment of the vote. A statement said: “The
      arbitrary abuse of state power, obviously designed to protect the incumbent
      President, went far beyond acceptable practice.”

      The Council of Europe dismissed the vote as a “farce”, while the Foreign and
      Commonwealth Office said that it “deeply regrets the way in which the
      Belarussian authorities chose to conduct this election”. Russian observers said
      that the election had been free and fair. “There is every reason to believe
      that the elections were conducted in accordance with recognised standards,” the
      Russian Foreign Ministry said.


    • nasza_maggie Re: Belarus 26.03.06, 16:40
      goodness, the scenes are so reminiscent of Poland in the 80s..........
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