Berlusconi in the EP

09.03.06, 19:39

My Berlusconi "loving" friends shared gave me this link.
Since quite many speak Italian here, I will post the link:
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-926629105834987595
Ervin

Thebartiski.blogspot.com
    • varsovian Re: Berlusconi in the EP 10.03.06, 14:18
      I think he is such a lovable crook.
      Tessa Jowell, reportedly, would prefer to knee him in the wotsits.
      • bartis_ervin Re: Berlusconi in the EP 10.03.06, 20:47

        Looks like the "Jesus Christ of Italian politics", the famous abstinent is
        getting indicted. Hmmmm, at least he has a busy life.

        Ervin

        Thebartiski.blogspot.com
    • usenetposts Re: Berlusconi in the EP 11.03.06, 13:28
      bartis_ervin napisał:

      >
      > My Berlusconi "loving" friends shared gave me this link.
      > Since quite many speak Italian here, I will post the link:
      > video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-926629105834987595
      > Ervin

      Heh heh. Very interesting material. I never saw the raw footage before. I
      particularly liked the sarcastic edits of godfather soundtrack music in the
      background as Burly was giving it the works,and the cut to Mussolini, of
      course...

      Nevertheless, I found Schulz to be such an utter prig, ranting on in his German
      style, and lecturing a democratically elected president how to do his job, that
      I couldn't find in it my heart to blame Burly for wanting to take him down a
      peg or two.
      • bartis_ervin Re: Berlusconi in the EP 11.03.06, 16:20

        "lecturing a democratically elected president how to do his job"

        Burly (I like this) is the Prime Minister. He is not democratically elected,
        people vote for the party not for Berlusconi. Or who knows...?
        Ciampi is the Italian President.

        Ervin

        Thebartiski.blogspot.com
        • usenetposts Re: Berlusconi in the EP 11.03.06, 22:05
          OK. I didn't know that, I assumed he was the president, since you hear more of
          him than anyone else from the tribe of It.

          But if you say that a prime minister is not democratically elected if you vote
          for the party, then you could say the same about Tony Blair.
          • bartis_ervin Re: Berlusconi in the EP 12.03.06, 00:35

            I don't know much about the British system, so I cannot say about Blair.

            In Italy there is parliamentary democracy: the citizens elect only the
            Parliament and the Parliament names the President. The Prime Minister is not
            directly elected, it will be nominated by the party/coalition who got majority
            in the Parliament. So, technically speaking Berlusconi was not elected by the
            Italian citizens.

            Ervin

            Thebartiski.blogspot.com
            • russh Re: Berlusconi in the EP 12.03.06, 03:51
              > In Italy there is parliamentary democracy: the citizens elect only the
              > Parliament and the Parliament names the President. The Prime Minister is not
              > directly elected, it will be nominated by the party/coalition who got majority
              > in the Parliament. So, technically speaking Berlusconi was not elected by the
              > Italian citizens.

              But the prime minister is a 'prime minister delegate' during the elections - the
              Italian people know now that Prodi or Berlusconi will be the next prime minister.

              Since 1994, when Berlusconi started in politics, his party, Forza Italia, has
              been Berlusconi. The Italian people voted for him in the last elections, much
              more than a party.

              Interestingly, the prime minister before him was not elected, in the sense he
              was a 'technocrat', not a member of the Italian parliament. Such is the Italian
              system.
              • bartis_ervin Re: Berlusconi in the EP 12.03.06, 20:02

                > But the prime minister is a 'prime minister delegate' during the elections - the
                > Italian people know now that Prodi or Berlusconi will be the next prime minister.

                Yes, of course the parties have Prime Minister nominees, but when Giovanni goes
                to the box, he does not tick Berlusconi or Prodi. This means that the Prime
                Minister is not directly elected.
                In Parliamentary democracy you elect only the Parliament.

                Ervin

                Thebartiski.blogspot.com
                • russh Re: Berlusconi in the EP 12.03.06, 21:14
                  > Yes, of course the parties have Prime Minister nominees, but when Giovanni goes
                  > to the box, he does not tick Berlusconi or Prodi. This means that the Prime
                  > Minister is not directly elected.
                  > In Parliamentary democracy you elect only the Parliament.

                  The point I was making was that Berlusconi was the party. Without him, there
                  would have been no Forza Italia.

                  The reality as well, is that in most democracies, many (maybe even the majority)
                  could not tell you what the current policies are of the parties that they are
                  voting for. Such is parliamenary democracy.
                  • bartis_ervin Re: Berlusconi in the EP 12.03.06, 23:01
                    > The reality as well, is that in most democracies, many (maybe even the majority
                    > )
                    > could not tell you what the current policies are of the parties that they are
                    > voting for. Such is parliamenary democracy.

                    Yes, I agree. However, when mentioning the parliamentary democracy as opposite
                    to presidential or semi-presidential system, my whole point was to say that the
                    prime minister in Italy does not get directly elected.

                    Ervin

                    Thebartiski.blogspot.com
                    • usenetposts Re: Berlusconi in the EP 13.03.06, 01:02
                      bartis_ervin napisał:

                      > > The reality as well, is that in most democracies, many (maybe even the ma
                      > jority
                      > > )
                      > > could not tell you what the current policies are of the parties that they
                      > are
                      > > voting for. Such is parliamenary democracy.
                      >
                      > Yes, I agree. However, when mentioning the parliamentary democracy as opposite
                      > to presidential or semi-presidential system, my whole point was to say that
                      the
                      > prime minister in Italy does not get directly elected.
                      >

                      Well, be that as it may, I still think that that Schulz character was totally
                      obnoxious. As if he is going to have a rant like that at the head of state in
                      Italy, where is his commentary right now when there is a real dictator in
                      Europe playing all the games he can to stay in power? I don't hear much
                      commentary from the silly prig on that matter.

                      And I don't think the Germans should be lecturing anyone about immigration
                      policy; to this day they do not recognise dual nationality, and what is that
                      but a left-over remnant of the master-race mentality? Neither have they opened
                      their labour markets to their neighbours, but are doing all they can to
                      undermine Poland's resources and energy bargaining power as well as ruin the
                      Baltic sea bed.
                      • russh Re: Berlusconi in the EP 13.03.06, 06:47
                        'Well, be that as it may, I still think that that Schulz character was totally
                        obnoxious. As if he is going to have a rant like that at the head of state in
                        Italy, where is his commentary right now when there is a real dictator in
                        Europe playing all the games he can to stay in power? I don't hear much
                        commentary from the silly prig on that matter.

                        And I don't think the Germans should be lecturing anyone about immigration
                        policy; to this day they do not recognise dual nationality, and what is that
                        but a left-over remnant of the master-race mentality? Neither have they opened
                        their labour markets to their neighbours, but are doing all they can to
                        undermine Poland's resources and energy bargaining power as well as ruin the
                        Baltic sea bed.'

                        A leopard never changes all of its spots. And remember, you were praising Merkel
                        a few weeks ago, but has she opened up the doors?

                        BTW, I agree with you about Shultz.
                      • bartis_ervin Re: Berlusconi in the EP 13.03.06, 11:07

                        > And I don't think the Germans should be lecturing anyone about immigration
                        > policy;

                        I think that Schulz is Austrian, but I might be wrong.
                        In fact, Austria could lecture all EU states on immigration. The refugee
                        recognition rate for Austria in 2005 is close to 50%, while UK has around 3-4%,
                        Poland 4% and so on.

                        Ervin

                        Thebartiski.blogspot.com
                        • usenetposts Re: Berlusconi in the EP 13.03.06, 12:04

                          Ervin wrote:

                          > I think that Schulz is Austrian, but I might be wrong.

                          He speaks Northrhein-Westfalian - but south of the Ruhrgebiet.

                          That would be an odd accent for an Austrian to have.

                          > In fact, Austria could lecture all EU states on immigration. The refugee
                          > recognition rate for Austria in 2005 is close to 50%, while UK has around 3-
                          4%,
                          > Poland 4% and so on.

                          Whether we grant the status or not is one thing, but certainly we have a bigger
                          immigration statistic than Austria.

                          Nevertheless, we can see from this article
                          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Austria that they are not exactly
                          at the bottom of the league table when it comes to immigration, and that they
                          have 4.2% Moslem population.

                          Sobieski wept.
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