What pisses you off the most in Poland

13.03.06, 19:09
After living for over two years in Portugal, half a year in US, half a year in
Germany and travelling a lot I know that there are things which get to you
when you're out of your country for a longer period of time.

Hell, there are many things in Poland that get my balls boiling.

What is it for you, expats living here in our moher-land?


cheers
    • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 19:13
      the_real_kris napisał:

      > After living for over two years in Portugal, half a year in US, half a year in
      > Germany and travelling a lot I know that there are things which get to you
      > when you're out of your country for a longer period of time.
      >
      > Hell, there are many things in Poland that get my balls boiling.
      >
      > What is it for you, expats living here in our moher-land?
      >
      >
      > cheers

      Piles of dogshit, bad plumbing, the dearth of people with an interest in
      culture, anti-talent in the area of dry-cleaning, oh, and the only talk radio
      station on the dial is dedicated to the worship of the goddess Isis in a semi-
      biblicized format.

      Also, I don't like the way people run their mouth at you here in a very
      aggressive way in UK terms and then get surprised when you punch them in the
      face.
      • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 20:45
        washing - oh! tell me about it... it's so difficult to find a room or flat w/ a
        washing machine (and when you do find one, sometimes it's a museum piece). and
        then if you Don't have one, where can you do washing? Dry cleaners are either
        none-existent or stupidly expensive. in Koszalin the one place i found i could
        do washing was the hospital... that's it; washing; the one and only thing that
        i found not so great in Poland. Bless this beautiful country! (if this question
        was asked concerning England it'd have taken me years to write an answer)
        • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 21:09
          Bless this beautiful country! (if this question
          > was asked concerning England it'd have taken me years to write an answer)

          Wow, where do I start?

          Washing machine - no problem, just go and buy one, there not expensive!

          Yes, as Dave says, the non-existent respect for others (and themselves in the
          end) with regards to cleanleness in the streets. Also;

          Roads - they have to be the worst outside the non-developed world. Not only the
          quality of or lack of, but also the lack of markings, which can be very
          dangerous at night.
          Lack of decent sewerage (in the roads as well).
          Poor street signs.
          Lack of mains water (go to a small village to find out).
          Taxation - having to produce monthly accounts and taxes to the taxman.
          Hospitals - lack of equipment, and having to be charged for things such as
          epijurals (spelt incorrectly for sure). Think of the poor mothers who can't
          afford them.
          Foreigners being charged more for everything (if they can get away with it).
          Bad driving.
          Corruption.
          The influence of the Church.

          And the list can go on, but I'm getting bored. Many of the above are obviously a
          direct consequence of the lack of finance, but not only.

          Some good things;

          A fantastic younger generation, which I think should be the envy of the rest of
          Europe.
          Prices.
          The opportunities.
          There are, I'm sure, some more, but I have to think hard.


          • ms.jones Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 14.03.06, 00:16
            I'll add to the list:

            anything to do with roads and driving
            racist attitudes
            poor personal hygiene
            heavy borrowing from English in the media
            lack of shower screens (in favour of cheap shower curtains or nothing at all)
            drinking vodka with meals
            milk in plastic bags
            inability to take 'no, thank you' to mean 'NO' at the table
            pronouncing dogmatic opinions as unquestionable truths
            having to seal your shopping (done earlier) in a plastic bag in Auchan
            complaining smile)



    • kylie1 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 19:35
      and what is getting YOUR "balls boiling" after your globe trotting?
      • portulaco Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 20:12
        Maybe it´s just bad luck but whenever I'm on a city bus or tramway there's always a super-stinker with wrotten sneakers or a awfull stentch coming from somebody.

        So you lived in Portugal, what did you detest most?

        Falas português? O que é que fez os teus tomates ferver? smile)



        • kylie1 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 20:33
          I was on a sky train once and there was a guy in front of us that I swear
          hadn't washed in weeks. He was carrying black garbage bags with all his
          belongings. Before you knew it, all the seats in front of him and behind him
          cleared within seconds. I can't remember smelling anything so bad in my whole
          life. I felt sorry for this man. A lot of these guys are released from mental
          hospitals when it's decided they pose no risk to the society. Unfortunately we
          have a huge number of psychatric patients living on the streets. They don't
          really know how to take care of themselves...but it's a different story
          altogether.

          > Falas português? O que é que fez os teus TOMATES ferver? smile)

          Portaluco, are writing about tomatoes here? smile
          • portulaco Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 21:06
            err... Kylie... tomates in Portuguese means Tomato "Pomidor" the vegetable but
            also "nuts" in the sexual context (place here a smile blushing), I asked our
            friend what makes his vegetables to boil in Portugal too.

            It´s true about some of this people stinking, behind most of those cases
            there´s a tragedy and deep misery tough some of them is pure lack of higiene.

            4 years ago when I was studying in WSHE here in Lodz I rented a flat with other
            Portuguese colegues and two Finish in Piotrkowska street, one day we had a
            homeless sleeping just in front in our door step, the flat had 4 stories and
            you could already smell the stentch from the 1st floor!

            Surprisingly when we communicate to him in English (at the time I only knew
            little of Polish language) the man spoke perfect English, he was a Pole but
            certaintly somebody tossed away from some happy farm.

            Later he went way but the smell stayed for days, some of this "folks" I was
            living with tryed to remove the smell by smoking marijuana in the door step but
            the result was very poor.



            • kylie1 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 21:44
              Thanks, Portaluco...My Lord, why sure I put a foot in my mouth. Interesting,
              though... I would think tomatoes and nuts are two different food groups. I
              still think I made giants strides in understanding Portugese smile smile
              We used to have a Portugese neigbor by the name Alfredo. He came to Canada from
              South America with his S.A. wife Donna. Pretty handsome chap, dark skin, not
              too tall. I could never remeber his name so my husband said "think of Alfredo
              pasta". That worked.
              There is another interesting group of people that does not like showers- the
              teenagers. When kids used to live at home, they liked to invite their friends
              for sleep overs. Somehow there was no problem with the girls but the boys were
              really stinky at times. Interesting thing with boys is that once they find
              themselves a girlfriend they take 6 long hot showers a day. So if the sleepover
              was for someone who didn't have a girlfriend, it meant changing sheets and
              airing the place out for a couple of hours afterwards.

              smile

              • kylie1 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 21:47
                sorry, Alfredo came from South Africa not South America
                smile
                • portulaco Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 22:22
                  kylie... a delicate question smile)

                  My nickname is Portulaco and not Portaluco big_grin

                  Portuguese community in Canada, thousands of them mostly from Azores and
                  Madeira others from former colonies, I listen they are a quite closed community
                  is it true?

                  That Alfredo seems to be the typical Portuguese, I was told I'm not that
                  typical in spite of having black hair and brown eyes, I wonder own my son will
                  look like, more Pole or more Portuguese...for now he's still in the factory.





                  • kylie1 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 22:43
                    To be quite honest with you,Portulaco (sorry about the name) I don't know much
                    about the Portuguese immigrants in Canada. We have every single nationality
                    here and the Portuguese like to stick together and form their own little
                    cultural communities like everyone else. All I know about the Portuguese
                    culture is their chicken they serve at "Fado" and a pepper steak that's my
                    favorite. Donna used to bring us baked goodies, Portuguese style and they were
                    really good. I know Alfredo was a fisherman in Portugal before he left for
                    South Africa.
                    When is the baby due? Excited?

                    smile
        • the_real_kris Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 14.03.06, 01:45
          > Maybe it´s just bad luck but whenever I'm on a city bus or tramway there's alwa
          > ys a super-stinker with wrotten sneakers or a awfull stentch coming from somebo
          > dy.


          ---> well - cannot comment much on that as being polish damned yuppie I havn't
          used subway in Warsaw more than thrre times during last four years (never did a
          trip in a tram and took a bus once). But I know this type of crap happens all
          over the place (especially in US as they are less socialistic than Western Europe).

          When I lived in Portugal I disliked several things - first, striking thing was
          bumps or homeless or poor males in the streets of Lisboa (Restauradores)
          collecting their saliva with a loud noise and spitting it out in random places.
          That was a shock - you can't really see it that much in Poland or Germany (I
          guess its to warm and they don't get frozen in winters often enough like we have
          it in Poland ;-D).
          Second - car driving - wow - the taxi which took me for my first ride from the
          airport to the hotel in Restauradores (forgot the name - it's an aparthotel with
          a swimming pool at the top and palmtrees in the building fronton) was just
          flippering me at the back seat from one door to the other (think of doing
          Marques Pombal roundabout at 100 km/h - I mean I can handle more than that when
          I'm driving but not as a cab passenger). I was literally rolling back there.
          When you rent a car and start driving yourself it gets even harder.
          (on the other hand when I came back there for meeting with Jazztel last year I
          had some 'warsaw' practice and I can swear to you I did scare some of those
          bastard drivers big_grin)
          And the thing which got to me the most was the fact that Portuguese despite
          their first appearance are very closed to themselves. I spent many, many months
          with locals working desk to desk, living there by myself (girlfriend back in
          Poland) and none of the Portuguese ever came up with an idea to invite me to a
          dinner for a weekend... I would have understood that if it happened only to me
          but there were all together something like 40 Poles in Torres de Lisboa
          throughout those years and I never heard about anything like that. Man, what's
          wrong with hospitability in Portugal?

          Sim naturalmente, duas anos chega para aprender Portugues. Nau posso dizer eu
          escreve bem mas posse dizer que falo ok. wink
          • kylie1 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 14.03.06, 04:18
            > collecting their saliva with

            yuck, who would want to "collect" the saliva? How did they do that?

            >and none of the Portuguese ever came up with an idea to invite me to a
            >dinner for a weekend.

            I wouldn't either. You swear too much.

            >was just flippering me at the back seat from one door to the other

            that's it for me - how can anyone want to visit Portugal after hearing this?
            That's just plain awful!

            >first, striking thing was bumps


            did they look like chicken pox? Were they itchy and red?

            I will tell you what, no Portugal for me. These are big issues, man.

            • portulaco Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 14.03.06, 09:27
              It could be an interesting thread to start, the negative points of our own
              countries comparing to Poland.

              It's true about homeless in Lisbon, there are many, but the idea you're
              transmmiting is like some sort of New York city halley with some wrecked 80's
              Chevrolet, papers flying, bums coffing and trash cans burning smile)


              Anyway if you visit Lisbon, Porto or Algarve region you almost don’t see them.

              Portuguese way of driving, that’s a point… we’re a country of dangerous drivers
              that’s the naked true, for some reason is the country in EU with highest rate
              of mortal road accidents. God bless the invention of dual airbags,
              pyrotechnical seatbelts and EU money smile for them to buy better cars and lower
              the infamous rate.

              My wife complains about the same as you, the fact that – generaly - Portuguese
              people don’t invite others for dinner or cofee, there’s a reason for that and I
              believe has to do with complexes, yes… complexes of having a small house, or
              not willing to admit that there’s no money to buy the latest plasma TV set or
              fancy furniture, let’s say that they can be driving a Audi A4 or a BMW 3 series
              but inside the house it’s cold as a refrigerator and there’s quite simple
              things inside the house… living on façade.

              Taxi drivers. That day you catch what we call a “fogareiro” type of taxi driver
              wich means an idiot who probably had a moustache looking like an horse shoe,
              the little finger nail quite long, green lenses -Rayban sunglasses- the radio
              playing loud and the Sport Lisboa e Benfica emblem hanging from the rear view
              mirror … bad luck you had, next time remember to buckle the seatbelt and ask
              the guy in simple English “Hey! Mr! Crazy!? Crazy!?”






              • ianek70 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 16.03.06, 16:55
                portulaco napisał:

                > It could be an interesting thread to start, the negative points of our own
                > countries comparing to Poland.

                That is a good idea, but whenever you start quoting facts about bad things in
                other countries Poles will start writing "No! No! In Poland it's even worse.
                Someone in Warsaw takes drugs and yesterday I waited for 7 minutes in a shop to
                buy an onion and it cost $100 and that's six months wages."
                So you can start that thread smile
    • ejmarkow Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 20:58
      Too many Western owned hyper-markets already established here, an exess of fast
      food establishments, and lack of paved roads in small villages. I still don't
      have a paved road going up to my hill here...grrrr! smile

      Regards,

      Eugene
    • budhano Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 21:40
      Too much smoking and dog shit everywhere.

      Almost complete lack of vegetarian or vegan options in restaurants.

      Excessive legal bureaucracy which includes a bizarre fixation on getting
      documents stamped and other pointless hassles.

      Too much imported stupid junk culture from the US... does the rynek really need
      a McDonald's? I didn't come to Poland to hear "YMCA" by the Village People.

      That said, I'm happy I came here. smile
      • hotfinger Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 22:39
        Hallo, Budhano
        Actually I should not come inside this page as I am a tribesman, means, a Pole
        living in Poland. Anyway, some of your pointings are quite interesting. Just
        before I saw your comment on dog shit everywhere I have written my complaint
        to the acting head of Warsaw municipality about it , as well as the complaint
        to the chief of Warsaw sanitary inspection urging him to act .
        I also think that we are importing too much rubish from the West. This is due
        to our naive approach to everything what has come from "the opposite
        direction". I mean from the West not from the Big brother. Now the matter
        begins to be the serious one as more people realize that we may have changed
        one Big Brother for another one.
        Will be glad if we be in touch.
        Andrzej
        • cynik9 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 14.03.06, 00:13
          To all those protesting to dog shit in Poland - you ain't seen nothing yet!
          Come over to Amsterdam - everything else is small potatos in comparison! big_grin
          • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 18.03.06, 21:59
            i don't know about Amsterdam but i tell you one place with a dogshit problem on
            an otherworldly scale in Brussels. As for Poland, I haven't noticed a problem
            (i guess perhaps it's localised?) I'd say there's more shit on the streets in
            England.
      • ejmarkow Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 14.03.06, 01:17
        budhano napisał:

        > Too much smoking...

        Very good point! I forgot to mention that one. I hate cigarettes with a
        passion, and the smoke that goes with it. Too many people here smoke! The 'dog
        shit' doesn't seem to be much of a problem at all in Poland, not compared to
        other countries I've been to. Otherwise, I love it here in beautiful Poland!

        Regards,

        Eugene
    • marimax Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 21:47
      Stupid foreigners who come here and tell us what to do and not remembering
      the shit they left in their own perfect countries
      • portulaco Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 13.03.06, 22:06
        Marimax

        Go to a wall and hit your head on it as hard as you can! Again and again and
        again...

        Another thing I detest... imbecil Poles like you!

        As"##"

        • mniklas5 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 14.03.06, 00:46
          you can not use this type of colloquialism like "pisses you off' even in the
          chat room . It is unacceptably informal and use only in conversations.You should
          use "dislike", "upsets"
          • the_real_kris I guess this one is for me... 14.03.06, 01:26
            sorry mniklas5 - I use pisses me off also in my company meetings in UK (also in
            presence of my boss and american CEO). You see - I just don't give a shit as
            long as it delivers the right message to the people listening/reading.

            So no exclusions here.


            Ciao.
            • kylie1 Re: I guess this one is for me... 14.03.06, 03:44
              > sorry mniklas5 - I use pisses me off also in my company meetings in UK (also
              > in presence of my boss and american CEO).

              wow, that speaks volumes about you and your company.
              • the_real_kris I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 14.03.06, 11:44
                It's a masculine society, not for pussies. We concentrate on getting things done
                - and we do get them done.

                Are you the type of 'bulke przez bibulke a ... do buzi'? Or what's your poroblem?

                BTW I'm not interested in your opinions about me, the company I work for etc.
                You don't know anything about it and it's rude to comment like you do - so keep
                it to yourself.
                • portulaco Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 14.03.06, 11:58
                  Dou-te um conselho visto que te enganas-te na praia.

                  Poe-te a andar! Abre um forum onde poderas arrotar essas postas de pescada
                  nauseabundas.

                  Es um malcriado e so mereces dois estalos nessa cara.

                  Entendes agora?

                  • portulaco Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 14.03.06, 12:07
                    I must translate what I wrote in Portuguese to this fellow...

                    I'm giving you an advise since you're in the wrong beach.

                    Get the heck out of here! Open your own forum were you will be able to belch
                    those stinky slices of silver croaker.

                    You're rude and you only deserve to slaps in that face.

                    Do you understand now?
                    • the_real_kris Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 14.03.06, 12:29
                      Portulaco - was I asking for your advice? Not quite I guess... Was I being
                      personal with somebody on this topic? Don't think so. Was I rude? No - maybe I
                      have a bad taste and use words many people don't like but I don't comment on
                      other people or judge others (that's what is rude). Is it polite to comment
                      'this says a lot about you'. For me it is a very, very 'low' type of behaviour.

                      So if you do not like MY topic - please don't read it.

                      Do YOU understand it?

                      What sort of self-admiration party is that, anyway?

                      • portulaco Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 14.03.06, 12:34
                        I have a an answer for you pall... exactly that one you have in mind.
                        • the_real_kris Relax 14.03.06, 12:43
                          my answer is in the topic.

                • kylie1 Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 16.03.06, 01:26
                  innuendos are not exactly insults, buddy.


                  > It's a masculine society, not for pussies. We concentrate on getting things
                  done and we do get them done.


                  Unfortunately I can't see anything musculine about you. You sound like a real
                  bully.

                  > You don't know anything about it and it's rude to comment like you do.

                  And how exactly did I comment the-fake-kris? What was rude about it?
                  "Me not get it buddy.Me not speak it the English".


                  • the_real_kris Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 23.03.06, 17:00
                    kylie1 napisała:

                    > innuendos are not exactly insults, buddy.
                    >
                    >
                    > > It's a masculine society, not for pussies. We concentrate on getting thin
                    > gs
                    > done and we do get them done.
                    >
                    >
                    > Unfortunately I can't see anything musculine about you. You sound like a real
                    > bully.
                    >

                    ---> You meant fortunatelly, right? - I have enough women fascinated with my
                    personality and don't need rude, little, impaired brats following me around


                    > > You don't know anything about it and it's rude to comment like you do.
                    >
                    > And how exactly did I comment the-fake-kris? What was rude about it?
                    > "Me not get it buddy.Me not speak it the English".
                    >
                    >

                    never mind b... - you'll never get it because you are what you are.
                    • usenetposts Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 23.03.06, 18:17
                      the_real_kris napisał:

                      > kylie1 napisała:
                      >
                      > > innuendos are not exactly insults, buddy.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > It's a masculine society, not for pussies. We concentrate on gettin
                      > g thin
                      > > gs
                      > > done and we do get them done.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Unfortunately I can't see anything musculine about you. You sound like a
                      > real
                      > > bully.
                      > >
                      >
                      > ---> You meant fortunatelly, right? - I have enough women fascinated with m
                      > y
                      > personality


                      Eva Braun wept.
                    • ianek70 Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 24.03.06, 13:42
                      the_real_kris napisał:

                      > ---> You meant fortunatelly, right? - I have enough women fascinated with my
                      > personality

                      Your personality?
                      Ugly people usually say that.
                      And computer nerds.
                • ianek70 Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 16.03.06, 17:01
                  the_real_kris napisał:

                  > It's a masculine society, not for pussies. We concentrate on getting things
                  don
                  > e
                  > - and we do get them done.
                  >

                  Are they useful things?
                  • russh Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 16.03.06, 17:08
                    Pussies?
                  • the_real_kris Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 23.03.06, 17:01
                    ianek70 napisał:

                    > the_real_kris napisał:
                    >
                    > > It's a masculine society, not for pussies. We concentrate on getting thin
                    > gs
                    > don
                    > > e
                    > > - and we do get them done.
                    > >
                    >
                    > Are they useful things?


                    Very useful - most of you use them every day.
                    • ianek70 Re: I wouldn't agree with your innuendos... 24.03.06, 11:01
                      the_real_kris napisał:

                      > ianek70 napisał:
                      >
                      > > the_real_kris napisał:
                      > >
                      > > > It's a masculine society, not for pussies. We concentrate on gettin
                      > g thin
                      > > gs
                      > > don
                      > > > e
                      > > > - and we do get them done.
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > Are they useful things?
                      >
                      >
                      > Very useful - most of you use them every day.

                      You make toothbrushes?
    • the_real_kris Here I got you, 14.03.06, 02:03
      This is an interesting topic - people always like to brag about the country they
      happen to live in.

      take it easy - I understand it and I know that Poland has a lot of crap to
      complain about.

      So - what gets to me in Poland is - most of all - fucking thieves running this
      country - not only that there are rumors that 'president' Kwasniewski stole odds
      of millions of dollars before he became a president but most of all the facts
      that VAT in Poland is one of the highest in Europe (22%), taxes and other
      charges are also one of the highest (after you make lousy 20k Euro you fall into
      40% tax brake what combined with other charges makes you effectivly taxed 50%
      all the time (I fall into this category very early in the year - due to high
      commission this year the thieves stole over 10k Euros out of my Feb paycheck).
      Additional luxury taxes for cars, gasoline etc - luckily being polish (and after
      many years of occupation) we know how to give them shit (that's what they deserve).

      Another thing is people's mentality - this whole damned religiousnes, ridiculous
      trust in God, combined with scoundrel everyday behaviours.

      Roads - but that's part of thieves running the country.

      Forgot the word in english (zawisc in polish) - this you can feel whenever you
      have a little bit more than your neighbours and without a proper training at
      handling it you can experience some problems. Right - the word is envy - now I
      remember it.

      Another thing - I hate polish chavs (lysych, ABSow - absolutnie bez szyi,
      karkow, pakerow, czy jak tam jeszcze ten smiec sie zowie) - I could shoot them
      in the streets - bald, stuffed with steroids, violent, rude and self-confident -
      cross me and I feel like cold bloded murder.
      • varsovian Re: Here I got you, 14.03.06, 11:56
        It's good to get all my gripes gathered together on one thread - thanks.
        Going back to bad language - I think the occasional "slip-up" isn't too bad,
        but I don't like seeing the F word.
        Anyway, for what it's worth, what I hate about Poland is that I am so damned
        polite here. I mean IT'S NOT ME! When I speak English I can slip in the
        occasional jibe at someone and it's OK, and they do the same - it's all give
        and take. I'm not good enough at Polish to do this - too slow, wrong
        intonation, bad word choice etc ... so I'm left with the awful situation of
        listening politely, agreeing pleasantly ... People on the whole like me a lot
        more than they do in England because I'm not linguistically adept enough to
        show my truly horrible nature. Aghhhh - it sends me mad!
        • the_real_kris ;-) 14.03.06, 12:20
          I understand what you mean. And feel sorry for you - but believe me - many years
          of learning and using foreign language will get you only a little closer to
          where you'd like to be. There is always limitations in the way you can express
          yourself in a foreign language.

          Sometimes it gets frustrating.
        • kylie1 Re: Here I got you, 14.03.06, 17:49
          Burping, belching and passing wind is crosscultural. You can do magic with body
          language and it can be equally meaningfull. It's surprising just how much you
          can understand without ever hearing a word.

          You need to be creative, varsovian!
        • rmstemero Re: Here I got you, 14.03.06, 19:37
          varsovian napisał:
          I'm not good enough at Polish to do this - too slow, wrong
          > intonation, bad word choice etc ... so I'm left with the awful situation of
          > listening politely, agreeing pleasantly ... People on the whole like me a lot
          > more than they do in England because I'm not linguistically adept enough to
          > show my truly horrible nature. Aghhhh - it sends me mad!

          I was in the exactly same position living as a pole in germany. At least the
          first 10 years. Think about the extreme pleasure when you will able to show
          your true self in a couple of years!!!
    • ianek70 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 14.03.06, 15:38
      From the above, I agree with:

      - the plumbing (and this might get even worse since all the good plumbers have
      gone to Ireland and Britain)
      - the dogshit
      - the Catholic church

      And I'd add:

      - the lack of good TV comedy (which I find surprising)
      - that green stuff they put on top of potatoes and you have to scrape it off
      with your fork
      - people who say "Polak potrafi" every time something goes right and "mądry
      Polak po szkodzie" every time it doesn't, and these are usually the same boring
      bastards who tell you everything in PL is either the best in the world or the
      worst (the women, the roads, etc)
      - the weird obsession with mushrooms (although this is mainly because I just
      don't like mushrooms)
      - no chip shops (although many countries suffer from this affliction)
      - lufki
      • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 14.03.06, 16:03
        ianek70 napisał:

        > From the above, I agree with:
        >
        > - the plumbing (and this might get even worse since all the good plumbers
        have
        > gone to Ireland and Britain)

        Hah, I don't believe they ever had any. Rather I think they might actually
        learn something over there and come back and show the ones who didn't go a
        thing or two. That's what I'm hoping.

        > - the dogshit
        > - the Catholic church
        >
        > And I'd add:
        >
        > - the lack of good TV comedy (which I find surprising)
        True, but I didn't put that as you can get the Beeb stuff on cable.

        > - that green stuff they put on top of potatoes and you have to scrape it off
        > with your fork

        I have to disagree with this one, I like that dill.


        > - people who say "Polak potrafi" every time something goes right and "mądry
        > Polak po szkodzie" every time it doesn't, and these are usually the same
        boring
        > bastards who tell you everything in PL is either the best in the world or the
        > worst (the women, the roads, etc)

        I did an interesting analysis once based on what the Poles say about themselves
        in the two phrases "Polak madry po szkodzie" and "polak glodny, to zly".

        I drew up a table with two columns and two rows, and then the column headers
        were "friendly", "unfriendly" and the two row headers were "clever, stupid". I
        said that this gave us a management tool for Poles inspired by what they say
        about themselves.

        It works like this: if you need a clever, friendly Pole for a certain job, then
        punch him in the face, then give him a load of food. If you need a clever pole
        to do a job but without being friendly, then after punching him in the face you
        keep him on low rations. If you need a dumb, but affable employee, then don't
        punch him, just give him a meal, whereas if you need someone who is both stupid
        and unfriendly, then neither punch him nor feed him, in fact you can just
        ignore him.

        That of course is a bit of mischief, but if anyone takes offence you can always
        say, "hey, these are what you guys say about yourselves, I didn't make them up!"

        > - the weird obsession with mushrooms (although this is mainly because I just
        > don't like mushrooms)

        I like them but I don't trust any old person to collect and prepare them.
        It could result in the ultimate gourmet experience: the meal you can only eat
        once before you die.

        > - no chip shops (although many countries suffer from this affliction)

        Here I definitely agree.

        > - lufki

        Well, I presume nobody forces you to drink if you don't want to?

        The other things I remember not liking are:

        Absence of proper tomato soup - the one they have also always ends up being a
        cross between rice pudding and heated up tinned tomatoes - why put rice in it?

        Getting a cup of water with a bag, instead of a properly made cup of tea, and
        the brands they give are barely even merchantable in the UK.

        People not listening. Even this morning I went to breakfast and said "coffee
        please", and they said "what's your room number?" so I said 204, and they
        said "what would you like to drink?" I said "I STILL would like a coffee".

        And then there's the fact that in supermarkets they only let you in at one end
        and they have the security very obtrusive all over the place. They won't catch
        any criminals that way.
        • ms.jones Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 16.03.06, 00:58
          > I did an interesting analysis once based on what the Poles say about
          themselves
          >
          > in the two phrases "Polak madry po szkodzie" and "polak glodny, to zly".
          >
          > I drew up a table with two columns and two rows, and then the column headers
          > were "friendly", "unfriendly" and the two row headers were "clever, stupid".
          I
          > said that this gave us a management tool for Poles inspired by what they say
          > about themselves.
          >
          > It works like this: if you need a clever, friendly Pole for a certain job,
          then
          >
          > punch him in the face, then give him a load of food. If you need a clever
          pole
          > to do a job but without being friendly, then after punching him in the face
          you
          >
          > keep him on low rations. If you need a dumb, but affable employee, then don't
          > punch him, just give him a meal, whereas if you need someone who is both
          stupid
          >
          > and unfriendly, then neither punch him nor feed him, in fact you can just
          > ignore him.

          Heeh heh. Do one for "An Englishman is never happy but when he becomes
          miserable" and "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" for an English
          employee. The column headers would be "happy", "unhappy" and the row
          headers "hardworking" and "interesting". If you want a happy and hardworking
          person you must make sure you give him plenty to complain about and he has to
          be dull as ditchwater. If you want a happy and interesting person you still
          make their life a misery but can't expect much work done. Only if you don't
          care about their emotional wellbeing can you afford to be nice to them and
          treat them well; the ones who respond and are fun to be with will do bugger
          all, the ones who work their socks off will go mad ("Jack worked all the time
          and got mad"). So there.
        • ianek70 Mądry Polak po szkodzie 16.03.06, 10:03
          usenetposts napisał:


          > I did an interesting analysis once based on what the Poles say about
          themselves
          >
          > in the two phrases "Polak madry po szkodzie" and "polak glodny, to zly".

          I actually analysed the "Mądry Polak po szkodzie" theory, to see whether
          the "szkoda" was more important, or the length of time "po".
          Working with a group of Polish volunteers, I hurt them all in a variety of
          ways - hitting them about the head with a balloon on a stick, scratching the
          paintwork on their cars, giving them a good, hard kick up the arse. Then I made
          them answer difficult questions at half hourly intervals.
          Unfortunately, I didn't have a pen with me, so I don't have any results.

          Anyway, most Polish newspapers use the phrase "mądry Polak po szkodzie" as a
          sub-heading at least three times a day, so on Monday I'm going to the GW
          offices, where I intend to tie their shoelaces together, trash a few computers
          and spraypaint "SMFC" on the wall whilst shouting "Get it up yis!"
          This should, according to their theory, improve the standard of their
          journalism.
    • poznan.is.4.lovers Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 19.03.06, 18:02
      You only seem to have done few years abroad and lot of things seem to irritate you back home. For sure there are many things that need improvement in Poland but I don't think that your few visits here and there abroad makes you such an expert to criticise everything. Looks like lot of that you learned abroad are some rude English words that you tend to over-use. You did poorly in Portugal as nobody ever invited you which is quite strange, have you ever thought about this?

      FYI I spent over 3o years abroad and enjoy being in Poland now.
      • the_real_kris Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 23.03.06, 17:07
        Don't paternalize me only because you're old. I took more trips last year than
        you ever made in your life.

        Also - exercise reading - I realize that for people like you it may not be an
        easy thing to do but practice makes perfect - I stated it clearly that there
        were more than 30 people coming from Poland and we all shared the same
        experience. So don't come up with personal crap against me.
    • nasza_maggie adverts 19.03.06, 23:37
      hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


      honestly?

      the tons and tons and tons of adverts by the roads, and I DONT mean the big
      billboards. How do people manage to drive and not get confused?!
      • ianek70 Re: adverts 20.03.06, 10:11
        nasza_maggie napisała:


        > the tons and tons and tons of adverts by the roads, and I DONT mean the big
        > billboards. How do people manage to drive and not get confused?!

        Presumably they just ignore them like any other adverts.

        One thing that really gets on my tits is the leaflets they hang on door handles
        and stuff into letter boxes, to irritate people and advertise the fact that a
        flat is empty.
        There are little basket things downstairs with "Please Put Adverts in Here
        Please" printed on them, and there is always a cardboard box as well.
        But the arrogant swine press the buzzer and say "Reklama," as if they're the
        postman, gasman or somebody useful, and I just say, "Dziękujemy, już mamy."
        I've hung up a sign downstairs saying "Firms which hang adverts on doorhandles
        are already boycotted, so don't waste your time," and am trying to persuade
        others to do the same.
        But if you ever hear of a Katowice branch of Telepizza having all its windows
        smashed...
        • usenetposts Re: adverts 20.03.06, 12:28
          ianek70 napisał:

          > nasza_maggie napisała:
          >
          >
          > > the tons and tons and tons of adverts by the roads, and I DONT mean the b
          > ig
          > > billboards. How do people manage to drive and not get confused?!
          >
          > Presumably they just ignore them like any other adverts.
          >
          > One thing that really gets on my tits is the leaflets they hang on door
          handles
          >
          > and stuff into letter boxes, to irritate people and advertise the fact that a
          > flat is empty.
          > There are little basket things downstairs with "Please Put Adverts in Here
          > Please" printed on them, and there is always a cardboard box as well.
          > But the arrogant swine press the buzzer and say "Reklama," as if they're the
          > postman, gasman or somebody useful, and I just say, "Dziękujemy, już mamy."
          > I've hung up a sign downstairs saying "Firms which hang adverts on
          doorhandles
          > are already boycotted, so don't waste your time," and am trying to persuade
          > others to do the same.
          > But if you ever hear of a Katowice branch of Telepizza having all its windows
          > smashed...

          I agree with this one. but even worse are when they use stickers to stick ads
          to places, and then never clear them away after. Especially the stupid adverts
          where they have these tear off strips with numbers at the bottom. I just tear
          the numbers off and chuck them away.
          • ianek70 Re: adverts 20.03.06, 12:50
            usenetposts napisał:

            > I agree with this one. but even worse are when they use stickers to stick ads
            > to places, and then never clear them away after. Especially the stupid
            adverts
            > where they have these tear off strips with numbers at the bottom. I just tear
            > the numbers off and chuck them away.

            I don't mind them in principle, since they're usually just "Kitchens installed
            cheap", "I am learn You Englisch" or "Reward for lost puppy" sellotaped to
            lampposts and bus shelters.
            And if all the numbers are torn off, then a little orphan wipes her big, sad
            eyes and thinks "Ten people have seen my little lost puppy-wuppy, I think I
            will wait by the phone for even longer than yesterday."
            • usenetposts Re: adverts 23.03.06, 18:19
              ianek70 napisał:

              > usenetposts napisał:
              >
              > > I agree with this one. but even worse are when they use stickers to stick
              > ads
              > > to places, and then never clear them away after. Especially the stupid
              > adverts
              > > where they have these tear off strips with numbers at the bottom. I just
              > tear
              > > the numbers off and chuck them away.
              >
              > I don't mind them in principle, since they're usually just "Kitchens
              installed
              > cheap", "I am learn You Englisch" or "Reward for lost puppy" sellotaped to
              > lampposts and bus shelters.
              > And if all the numbers are torn off, then a little orphan wipes her big, sad
              > eyes and thinks "Ten people have seen my little lost puppy-wuppy, I think I
              > will wait by the phone for even longer than yesterday."

              I never thought of that. Maybe I won't take them down in future ... for the
              orphans.
        • russh Re: adverts 20.03.06, 15:57
          Did you guys see the series 'Grumpy Old Men' - it was shown on BBC Prime not so
          long ago.

          Ever get that feeling?
          • ianek70 Re: adverts 20.03.06, 15:58
            russh napisał:

            > Did you guys see the series 'Grumpy Old Men' - it was shown on BBC Prime not
            so
            > long ago.

            Did they get burgled?
            • ejmarkow Pizza 24.03.06, 20:41
              Poland doesn't have too many good tasting pizza outlets like New York City has.
              Too many establishments here use 'ketchup' rather than real sauce, the crust or
              bread is too thick, and too much cheese.

              Eugene
              • marcus_anglikiem Re: Pizza 24.03.06, 22:48
                Eugene, witam! Have you not been to Aida (towards the top end of ul Walowa in
                Tarnow, on the right hand side as you walk towards ul Krakowska). If not, i
                do sincerely encourage you to pay a visit.
                • ejmarkow Re: Pizza 25.03.06, 08:21
                  marcus_anglikiem napisał:

                  > Eugene, witam! Have you not been to Aida (towards the top end of ul Walowa in
                  > Tarnow, on the right hand side as you walk towards ul Krakowska). If not, I
                  > do sincerely encourage you to pay a visit.

                  I do recall eating at some pizza place in that area several years ago (I forgot
                  the exact name...it could be Aida), on ul. Walowa near ul. Krakowska. The pizza
                  was ok. There are two pizzerias on ul. Weksklarska off the eastern side of the
                  rynek. The pizza was decent as well, though I still dearly miss my New York
                  City pizza.

                  Regards,

                  Eugene
                  • nasza_maggie Re: Pizza 25.03.06, 11:19
                    It's because we have less Italians then NYCsmile))

                    If you are ever in warsaw Eugene, we can go for a good pizza in ursynówsmile
                    • ianek70 Re: Pizza 25.03.06, 12:01
                      nasza_maggie napisała:

                      > It's because we have less Italians then NYCsmile))
                      >
                      > If you are ever in warsaw Eugene, we can go for a good pizza in ursynówsmile

                      I'm hungry now.
                      Can we start a food thread?
                    • ejmarkow Re: Pizza 25.03.06, 12:01
                      nasza_maggie napisała:

                      > It's because we have less Italians then NYCsmile))
                      >
                      > If you are ever in warsaw Eugene, we can go for a good pizza in ursynówsmile

                      Maggie, sounds great! I now have quite a few good reasons for visiting Warsaw.
                      One of my good friends and a relative recently purchased new flats in Warsaw,
                      giving me extra incentive to come there. Recently a former neighbor of mine
                      from Staten Island, New York purchased a flat there, and my cousin and her
                      husband from Australia did as well. I've been to Ursynów several times via the
                      Metro. I didn't realize Ursynów had a reputation for tasty pizza!

                      Cheers,

                      Eugene
                    • russh Re: Pizza 25.03.06, 12:12
                      Which pizzeria do you go to in Ursynow?
    • dzejti Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 13:05
      Hi guys,

      I really enjoyed reading this post. Good to know what foreigners living here
      think about us Poles or our country in general. Though a lot of the things you
      dislike is true please do not forget one thing - History. Well, i don't want to
      bore you about the probably well known facts like 150 years of occupation, then
      the first world war, finally the second that destroyed most of our cities and
      last but not least 45 years of inredibly ineffective and socially destructive
      comunism. But eventually, these things caused:
      - rudeness among people
      - polish complexes
      - economic, infrastructural underdevelopment
      - bad politics, cause people don't understand basic fundaments of democracy or
      modern economics, idiots and populists are being elected and then those
      'thieves' can tax 50% of your pay checks
      - lack of chip shops, worse pizzas, rice in tomato soup, annoying adverts, bald
      chavs, stinking kloszardy (how's that in english?) in public transport
      - and most of the things mentioned

      Why am I saying this? Because somehow I feel that people see all these things
      here and think it's our choice to be like that. Of course I would like my
      country to have nice highways, low taxes and no poverty, but it takes time to
      alter a country which had a lot of bad luck in the past.

      And the second reason is that I've spent most of last year in the UK and some of
      the british guys who wrote to this post have this colonial arrogant attitude
      towards other cultures and probably there's just a lot of anger inside of me
      that I gathered while being in this so called tolerant country which is
      currently a bigger labour market for young Poles than our own country...

      Above all, I really admire your determination in staying in Poland because I
      probably wouldn't if i wasn't polish and the thing i hate most about my country
      are these huge, ugly grey living blocks with their characteristic two types of
      plaster color: komuna-grey and komuna-brown.

      nazdrowiewink
      • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 13:18
        dzejti napisał:

        > Hi guys,
        >
        > I really enjoyed reading this post. Good to know what foreigners living here
        > think about us Poles or our country in general. Though a lot of the things you
        > dislike is true please do not forget one thing - History. Well, i don't want
        to
        > bore you about the probably well known facts like 150 years of occupation,
        then
        > the first world war, finally the second that destroyed most of our cities and
        > last but not least 45 years of inredibly ineffective and socially destructive
        > comunism. But eventually, these things caused:
        > - rudeness among people
        > - polish complexes
        > - economic, infrastructural underdevelopment
        > - bad politics, cause people don't understand basic fundaments of democracy or
        > modern economics, idiots and populists are being elected and then those
        > 'thieves' can tax 50% of your pay checks
        > - lack of chip shops, worse pizzas, rice in tomato soup, annoying adverts,
        bald
        > chavs, stinking kloszardy (how's that in english?) in public transport
        > - and most of the things mentioned
        >
        > Why am I saying this? Because somehow I feel that people see all these things
        > here and think it's our choice to be like that. Of course I would like my
        > country to have nice highways, low taxes and no poverty, but it takes time to
        > alter a country which had a lot of bad luck in the past.
        >
        > And the second reason is that I've spent most of last year in the UK and some
        o
        > f
        > the british guys who wrote to this post have this colonial arrogant attitude
        > towards other cultures and probably there's just a lot of anger inside of me
        > that I gathered while being in this so called tolerant country which is
        > currently a bigger labour market for young Poles than our own country...

        We know about the history and that is why we still respect this country even
        when it has things lacking about it which we have to grit our teeth over.

        Don't think for a minute that the British people in this thread are uncritical
        of the UK. I have seen the same people who have made criticisms of Poland here
        make even more scathing criticisms of our home countries, and in that case we
        have to say, ok, the Poles had 40 years of communism, what's Britain's excuse?

        Also most of us have been here a number of years. I came out as early as 1991,
        and I have seen a great deal of change. It is much easier to live out here now
        than it was then. But somehow we managed even then. It is hard to think back
        now and remember that only 16 years ago there were none of the Tescos, Reals,
        etc that there are today. I did most of my food shopping in the muddy Gielda
        Spozywcza. It was hard to get your car serviced as garages would remove more
        original and working pieces from your car and replace them with junk than they
        would fix. When there finally was a Hit in Warsaw, the queues to get inside
        were ridiculously long and the queues to the till were as long as they only are
        in Geant so-called "King Cross" -heh, they couldn't even get that right-
        (which has zero regard for its customers and is the biggest rip-off among all
        the supermarkets) now.
        • nasza_maggie Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 13:23
          >
          > in Geant so-called "King Cross" -heh, they couldn't even get that right-
          > (which has zero regard for its customers and is the biggest rip-off among all
          > the supermarkets) now.
          >
          That REALLY annoys me. Every time I drvive past that supermarket I have this
          urge to go and stick that missing S up there!

          The Poles hate their 'S'.

          eg they usually name companies in the singular
          eg: 'XXXXX Film Production' instead of 's.
          So it's like this one company just makes one productionsmile
          Or 'XXXXX Special Effect'.
          • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 14:26
            nasza_maggie napisała:

            > >
            > > in Geant so-called "King Cross" -heh, they couldn't even get that right-
            >
            > > (which has zero regard for its customers and is the biggest rip-off among
            > all
            > > the supermarkets) now.
            > >
            > That REALLY annoys me. Every time I drvive past that supermarket I have this
            > urge to go and stick that missing S up there!

            Even this little guy got pissed off with Geant:

            www.maxior.pl/?p=index&id=140&6
            • ms.jones Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 14:35
              Is that little guy related to pani Krysia?

              www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKcNYwr15kw&search=Stancja
              • ms.jones Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 14:35
                www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKcNYwr15kw&search=Stancja
              • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 16:11
                ms.jones napisała:

                > Is that little guy related to pani Krysia?
                >
                > www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKcNYwr15kw&search=Stancja

                Hee! Maybe he was another "fly on the wall" in her flat and picked up a bit of
                vocab.
            • ejmarkow Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 14:43
              usenetposts napisał:

              > Even this little guy got pissed off with Geant:
              >
              > www.maxior.pl/?p=index&id=140&6

              He he ... I love it! How did you find that??

              Cheers,

              Eugene
              • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 15:48
                ejmarkow napisał:

                > usenetposts napisał:
                >
                > > Even this little guy got pissed off with Geant:
                > >
                > > www.maxior.pl/?p=index&id=140&6
                >
                > He he ... I love it! How did you find that??
                >
                > Cheers,
                >
                > Eugene

                First I saw this elsewhere a few years back, it has been around the block this
                particular little flash production, so it has.

                But recently I saw it again in the sig of one of the participants on the
                Polonia forum. I sometimes go over there to see what is going on, as they have
                a tendency to discuss tactics as to where they are going to do their troll
                raids, and this group of ours, although not named as such as they think that
                way they will fly under my radar, is mentioned from time to time.

                Forewarned is forearmed, so I take a look in over there once a week or so.
      • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 13:19
        dzejti napisał:


        > And the second reason is that I've spent most of last year in the UK and some o
        > f
        > the british guys who wrote to this post have this colonial arrogant attitude
        > towards other cultures and probably there's just a lot of anger inside of me
        > that I gathered while being in this so called tolerant country which is
        > currently a bigger labour market for young Poles than our own country...

        Now it's your turn (being really serious) - why the anger after a year in
        England? Lets have a what pisses you off about England thread - it's due, after
        all, and I'm sure that we Brits can have a good go about it as well as you Polish.

        Please start. No, even better, I'll start it!
        • dzejti Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 16:40
          After three months in Llandudno/Wales and four months in Brighton i observed the
          following features that i dislike (it's not very original, though):

          - 'how are u' on every occasion, but not meaning it really and not caring about
          hearing an honest answer, cause you are expected to say 'fine', 'ok' etc. True,
          we also say 'co slychac?' but we don't say it with a bright smile to someone we
          see the first time in our life.

          - food: chips, jacket potatoes, mashed potatoes - you name it; it needs potatoes
          in it, then it's british. Eating sausages, bacon, mushrooms and beans for
          breakfast - yak. Bread that you can't eat without toasting - i wonder what where
          brits doing before the invention of the toaster?
          and this food categorizing: e.g. my girlfriend worked in a restaurant and a chef
          asked her if she knew 'cheesy beans'? The chef said it's one of his favourite
          dishes - and it's just those canned tomato beans with grated cheese melted
          together. Another time she was eating a fried agg on a toast in the evening and
          everyone was so surpised how she could eat breakfast in the evening.

          - and they are arrogant, convinced about their superiority, uneducated (i was
          really worried that maps are banned in england, bacause noone knew where Poland
          was; one geography student whom i met didn't know neither the capital of poland
          nor hungary and just laughed about his own incompetence), they know only english
          and can't understand why others don't speak it perfetcly and they are NOT
          tolerant because they only accept foreigners who behave in exactly the same way
          like brits do - that's not tolerance.

          that's all i can think of now.
          • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 17:06
            Is that all!

            I consider what you have written as a complement, compared to the things I can
            think of that annoy me about today's Britain, but I'll wait until some more
            posts have been made in the thread I set up.

            As I said before, GB has always been a 'class' society, although much less so
            now. The arrogance is inevitable, but the intolerance is mainly from the less
            educated classes, although your statement that 'they are uneducated' (in the
            scholastic sense) is too broad-brushed. The education system certainly needs
            improvement - there is certainly a fair share of scholastically uneducated
            people, and for sure a greater share of culturally uneducated people, but there
            is also a higher percentage of university graduates in the UK than in Poland and
            many other EU countries.
            • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 20:03
              russh napisał:

              > Is that all!
              >
              > I consider what you have written as a complement, compared to the things I can
              > think of that annoy me about today's Britain, but I'll wait until some more
              > posts have been made in the thread I set up.
              >
              > As I said before, GB has always been a 'class' society, although much less so
              > now. The arrogance is inevitable, but the intolerance is mainly from the less
              > educated classes, although your statement that 'they are uneducated' (in the
              > scholastic sense) is too broad-brushed. The education system certainly needs
              > improvement - there is certainly a fair share of scholastically uneducated
              > people, and for sure a greater share of culturally uneducated people, but
              there
              > is also a higher percentage of university graduates in the UK than in Poland
              an
              > d
              > many other EU countries.

              Hmmn. But to be fair, since they put the universities and the polytechnics and
              the thick beggars colleges all in one pot and called them all universities,
              it's barely surprising that he found that.

              In Llandudno University I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know where to
              find Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, despite the
              length of the name on the map.
          • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 17:11
            hmm... someone's convinced himself that all English are the same, a
            stereotype...
          • ms.jones Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 18:15
            How are you? (smile weak to moderate)

            for
            > breakfast - yak.
            If you were offered yak, you were probably in a Chinese eatery wink

            > brits doing before the invention of the toaster?
            The Romans used to toast bread (latin tostum = scorched, burnt), it could be
            their legacy. It was a Brit who invented the first toaster. They are good at
            inventing things.

            > asked her if she knew 'cheesy beans'
            beans and cheese, what else is it? It's no stranger than pierogi z kapusta or
            serem or jagody (yum), but less strange than ryba po grecku, fasolka po
            bretonsku, bulka paryska or even a pizza with kapusta - I had one in Lublin.

            > really worried that maps are banned in england
            if you tested Poles on their knowledge of countries 1000 miles east of Poland,
            how would they do?

            > - and they are arrogant, convinced about their superiority, uneducated

            Funny how this country of uneducated people leaves the educated ones behind.

            > and can't understand why others don't speak it perfetcly
            yes, they can.
            What some don't seem to understand is that speaking English slowly and loudly
            when abroad isn't a substitute for learning a few words in the local language.

            they are NOT
            > tolerant because they only accept foreigners who behave in exactly the same
            way like brits do

            There are prejudiced and narrow-minded groups or individuals in every society.
            I'm sorry if you had bad experiences. In my experience this is a very tolerant
            country but it takes time and effort to find your own place in the new
            environment; it's a two way process.

            It's not surprising that the threat from brainwashed fanatics is stirring up
            some radical voices and attitudes among the natives.
            • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.03.06, 20:37
              Ms Jones - A very nice post.
              • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 00:14
                russh napisał:

                > Ms Jones - A very nice post.

                True.
                • easystreet Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 18:31
                  It's too bad there's no forum like this in the countries YOU CAME FROM, ex-pat
                  or native. You should commend Poland for her freedom of speech. Try to write
                  ANYTHING not-pro-line or politically correct in any of your Anglo newspapers
                  about what "pisses you off" in Canada, the UK, the US or Portugal for that
                  matter. I'm pretty sure the official media will simply NOT allow it, or perhaps
                  you could give me some links to vent about what pisses ME off about living
                  in....oh, whatever. Don't want to spoil your fuuuun. Just look at the
                  possibility of venting and sharing your insights, nowhere else BUT in Poland,
                  eh?
                  ----------------
                  Podróże kształcą.
                  • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 18:40
                    easystreet napisała:

                    > It's too bad there's no forum like this in the countries YOU CAME FROM, ex-
                    pat
                    > or native. You should commend Poland for her freedom of speech. Try to write
                    > ANYTHING not-pro-line or politically correct in any of your Anglo newspapers
                    > about what "pisses you off" in Canada, the UK, the US or Portugal for that
                    > matter. I'm pretty sure the official media will simply NOT allow it, or
                    perhaps
                    >
                    > you could give me some links to vent about what pisses ME off about living
                    > in....oh, whatever. Don't want to spoil your fuuuun. Just look at the
                    > possibility of venting and sharing your insights, nowhere else BUT in Poland,
                    > eh?

                    Let's just work on keeping it that way.
                    • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:13
                      Look on any of the major forums - take yahoo.co.uk for instance.

                      uk.messages.news.yahoo.com/yahoo/Domestic/index.html
                      Read some of these threads - there are people from all over the world that
                      contribute, some posts are good, some are terrible, and some are downright
                      disgusting. One thing for sure, there is freedom of both speech and press in the UK.

                      There are many, many more, so please don't comment as you have done without
                      finding out the facts first.
                      • nasza_maggie Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:16
                        which major british NEWSPAPERS have that option?wink
                        • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:24
                          What has that to do with the question of freedom of speech or press?
                          • nasza_maggie Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:34
                            Don't answer a question with a question, my history teacher used to say.
                            ANYWAY smile))))


                            It has a lot to do with freedom of speech.
                            Gazeta is one, if not the only newspaper, which has such a big forum where you
                            can rant and rave about your ideas on the world...

                            I can't see any (other) UK papers having such a big forum with the same option.
                            where you can comment on articles and critisiez the publisher.
                            Yahoo is just a portal like WP or ONET.
                            And so, your thoeries that many things in the UK are now just thoeries no
                            longer practiced, may be right....
                            • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:42
                              nasza_maggie napisała:

                              > Don't answer a question with a question, my history teacher used to say.
                              > ANYWAY smile))))
                              >
                              >
                              > It has a lot to do with freedom of speech.
                              > Gazeta is one, if not the only newspaper, which has such a big forum where
                              you
                              >
                              > can rant and rave about your ideas on the world...
                              >
                              > I can't see any (other) UK papers having such a big forum with the same
                              option.
                              >
                              > where you can comment on articles and critisiez the publisher.
                              > Yahoo is just a portal like WP or ONET.
                              > And so, your thoeries that many things in the UK are now just thoeries no
                              > longer practiced, may be right....

                              I have to say that you seem to be absolutely right. The only place I know where
                              I have more freedom than I do here is bought and paid for by me, and hardly
                              anyone goes there, and that's my own forum on my own website.

                              There are a few bulletin boards which are free and of course most of Usenet is
                              free, but most of the UK ones and controlled. There is a talk.guardian thing,
                              but you cannot get a conversation going on it, and the "Your view" part of the
                              Online Telegraph, which regularly censors my contributions, doesn't allow for
                              conversing either.

                              That's what makes GW a very good place, and they should in fact be very proud
                              of themselves.
                              • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:54
                                I think we can all agree that this forum is good, and free (of censorship), and
                                may long it continue, despite the current Governments apparant attitude.

                                My point was that in the UK there are many forums that give the possibility of
                                venting your ire against anything you want. It has not been the place of the
                                newspapers to do so, and it is not necessary that they do.

                                Having said that, there are enough 'readers letters' pages in the quality papers
                                that criticise the country and its politicians, and even if they may be
                                'censored' in the sense that they give room only to those of their political
                                leanings, there is enough of a political spread of papers to counter such
                                censorship if it exists.
                              • nasza_maggie Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 27.03.06, 00:41

                                > That's what makes GW a very good place, and they should in fact be very proud
                                > of themselves.
                                >

                                Just to add to this. Gazeta is not my favourite paper btw. I don't really read
                                or buy it.
                                I do find their opinions a little silly sometimessmile
                                But this forum on the net is like anoither 'cell' of GW, which is nice, I
                                think. Besides it gives the journalists LOTS of subjects and ideas FOR FREE! smile
                                • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 27.03.06, 19:36
                                  i would be very interested to know if GW journalists took some inspiration from
                                  us!?
                                  • nasza_maggie Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 27.03.06, 19:47
                                    I bet they do.
                                    You go thru the forums and then see
                                    Wysokie Obcasy or
                                    Duzy Format and you can see the 'inspiration'smile))))
                                    • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 28.03.06, 00:48
                                      nasza_maggie napisała:

                                      > I bet they do.
                                      > You go thru the forums and then see
                                      > Wysokie Obcasy or
                                      > Duzy Format and you can see the 'inspiration'smile))))

                                      You mean they quote the forums wholesale? The private ones as well?

                                      Gosh!
                                      • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 28.03.06, 22:37
                                        really? hmm, we should counter them - if anyone sees something from here there
                                        then post it back here again! could be fun!
                                        • nasza_maggie Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.03.06, 23:33
                                          hmmm I'm not sure if they quote what is written on the forums but I am sure
                                          they get inspired by the problems people write about. I'm mean it is all here
                                          for the taking, right?
                                          And also I'm sure they provoke some subjects themselves but that is just a
                                          conspiracy theory of mine wink


                                          And also, intelectually I think it isn't our property anyway, we may have to
                                          read the agreement we sign, when logging onto GW.
                                          • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.03.06, 23:44
                                            nasza_maggie napisała:

                                            > hmmm I'm not sure if they quote what is written on the forums but I am sure
                                            > they get inspired by the problems people write about. I'm mean it is all here
                                            > for the taking, right?
                                            > And also I'm sure they provoke some subjects themselves but that is just a
                                            > conspiracy theory of mine wink
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > And also, intelectually I think it isn't our property anyway, we may have to
                                            > read the agreement we sign, when logging onto GW.


                                            Note that article 11 to the Regulamin Forum states the following:

                                            11.
                                            Uczestnicy Forum poprzez umieszczenie swoich komentarzy i opinii na stronach
                                            Forum wyrażają zgodę na publikowanie tych treści w "Gazecie Wyborczej" oraz
                                            innych mediach wydawanych przez AGORĘ.

                                            This automatically also refers to the Private fora.

                                            This does not say - in fact it implies the opposite - that it is no longer the
                                            intellectual property of the writer. If that were the case, then article 11
                                            would be meaningless.

                                            They have an unlimited right to publish what goes on in here, but they do not
                                            take away the poster's right to use his material again in other places.

                                            Neither, as far as I am aware, does it stop me from putting together a book of
                                            the best quotes from the first year of this forum and publishing it, as long as
                                            I cite the author of the quotes, as required by general copyright law.
                                            • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 31.03.06, 23:27
                                              that's brilliant! i would buy it i think.
                                              so our words are our own, but also theirs, for free. hmm., seems ok. i don't
                                              suppose they'd make any financial profit from our words in any case?
                                              • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 31.03.06, 23:28
                                                i'm just waiting for the article that quotes "the bbc is £_||$^)&!"...
                                              • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 01.04.06, 00:04
                                                marcus_anglikiem napisał:

                                                > that's brilliant! i would buy it i think.
                                                > so our words are our own, but also theirs, for free. hmm., seems ok. i don't
                                                > suppose they'd make any financial profit from our words in any case?

                                                The idea that I have comes from the fact that at the moment there is, in
                                                various bookshops especially the American bookshop, a paperback book
                                                called "Warsaw Tales 2006 New Europe Writers Ink". ISBN 83-7358-031-X 142 A5
                                                pages, softcover, no illustrations. Well I bought this collection of short
                                                pieces of creative writing by various creative writing hobbyists living in
                                                Poland and working in English and some - even most - of the stuff was quite
                                                good, some of it was nothing to write home about. In any event, there are
                                                probably more poems than tales in it, and as much Polish countryside as
                                                Warsaw. "Rypin Yarns" would have been as appropriate a title as Warsaw Tales -
                                                maybe we can keep that for our version, though.

                                                www.polskieradio.pl/polonia/article.asp?tId=33698&j=2
                                                I just thought to myself "hello, two can play at that game". This group has now
                                                been up and at it for nearly 7,600 posts and at the current run rate we are
                                                going to hit almost 10,000 posts by the first anniversary of this group, which
                                                is actually early in June, but we'll call it the end of June because obviously
                                                at first it was only me posting and feeding it a bit on my own until a few
                                                others of our first and earliest members were kind enough to take the bait, and
                                                thanks to them we have a thriving group now.

                                                So I came to thinking maybe it would be a good idea to pick the most literary
                                                bits from the group in the first 10,000 posts, and make a collection of them.

                                                Our "Rypin Yarns" would be fragments, aphorisms, snippets of clever
                                                conversation and repartee which featured on this group and which were original.
                                                There should be a Polish-interest flavour in them, and I dare say we should
                                                limit them in the main to English,with other languages quoted where the
                                                original pieces quote them incidentally.

                                                I would like it if a few of us were to co-operate over this, going back and re-
                                                reading all the posts in a systematic way looking out for any snippets that
                                                look intriguing or artistic, and cutting them and pasting them with the author
                                                into a word document.

                                                We would then ask the authors if they a) minded their pieces being included -
                                                it is still the author of words who owns them on these sites and b) whether
                                                they were in fact their original work and if the answers to these two questions
                                                are no and yes respectively, then they would go forward into a final selection
                                                of maybe 200 or so fragments showing a digest of the best of these 10,000 posts.

                                                I would then suggest that we publish it as a book and ask the American
                                                bookshops and main internet portals sell it, and use any profits to fund our
                                                social events.

                                                If Agora wanted the first refusal on printing it and/or distributing it, then
                                                that would be appropriate also.

                                                Raise your hands all those who like the idea, and two hands if you actually
                                                fancy collaborating on it. I need between 2 and 4 people.
                                                • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 01.04.06, 00:36
                                                  Good idea. I've no problem to help.
                                                  • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 01.04.06, 13:35
                                                    Fantastic! Thanks, Russ. Now we need another 1 or 2 people, and we can start.
                                                • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 01.04.06, 19:39
                                                  can you see my handS up? i also thought that in the case of non-English posts,
                                                  a translation could be included, either in place of or along side the orig.?
                                                  • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 01.04.06, 23:02
                                                    Great, Marcus!

                                                    One more person, and we're cooking.
                                                  • easystreet Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 02.04.06, 02:37
                                                    Hate to burst your bubble, Maggie, but I happen to think that you flatter
                                                    yourself, indeed, by thinking that any respectable journalist can get any
                                                    inspiration from reading this forum. You are re-discovering things that people
                                                    in Poland are aware without having you tell them "the way of the world".
                                                    I suspect that if anyone reads these blogs, it is more for language practice
                                                    than for ideas for news articles or editorials. Perchance you might want to
                                                    back up your statement with some examples... Thank you and have a very good
                                                    day!
                                                  • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 02.04.06, 10:04
                                                    easystreet napisała:

                                                    > Hate to burst your bubble, Maggie, but I happen to think that you flatter
                                                    > yourself, indeed, by thinking that any respectable journalist can get any
                                                    > inspiration from reading this forum. You are re-discovering things that
                                                    people
                                                    > in Poland are aware without having you tell them "the way of the world".

                                                    as the great majority of us (myself currently an exception) live in Poland,
                                                    and a great many are Polish, it would seem that we are discovering things
                                                    for ourselves. You paint a picture of emigrees/expats discovering life in
                                                    Poland and telling those in Poland how it is. Well, sorry but i don't think
                                                    that's the case - life in Poland is for the majority of us our everyday
                                                    life, not an 'interest' or 'hobby'.

                                                    > I suspect that if anyone reads these blogs, it is more for language practice
                                                    > than for ideas for news articles or editorials. Perchance you might want to
                                                    > back up your statement with some examples... Thank you and have a very good
                                                    > day!

                                                    I can say that journalists, writing about society and social/political/etc.
                                                    issues get their inspirationfrom peoples'/society's thoughts. To say that
                                                    those journalists would not take inspiration from this forum could well
                                                    imply a certain disrespect to the minds of the contributors; is this what
                                                    you were trying to say?
                                                    As for examples to back up our comments, please, quote us; we'll give
                                                    you examples...
                                                  • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 02.04.06, 13:52
                                                    easystreet napisała:

                                                    > Hate to burst your bubble, Maggie, but I happen to think that you flatter
                                                    > yourself, indeed, by thinking that any respectable journalist can get any
                                                    > inspiration from reading this forum. You are re-discovering things that
                                                    people
                                                    > in Poland are aware without having you tell them "the way of the world".
                                                    > I suspect that if anyone reads these blogs, it is more for language practice
                                                    > than for ideas for news articles or editorials. Perchance you might want to
                                                    > back up your statement with some examples... Thank you and have a very good
                                                    > day!

                                                    They're not blogs, young padawan. Get the terminology right.
                                                  • ejmarkow Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 02.04.06, 14:21
                                                    usenetposts napisał:

                                                    > easystreet napisała:
                                                    >
                                                    > > Hate to burst your bubble, Maggie, but I happen to think that you flatter
                                                    >
                                                    > > yourself, indeed, by thinking that any respectable journalist can get any
                                                    >
                                                    > > inspiration from reading this forum. You are re-discovering things that
                                                    > people
                                                    > > in Poland are aware without having you tell them "the way of the world".
                                                    > > I suspect that if anyone reads these blogs, it is more for language pract
                                                    > ice
                                                    > > than for ideas for news articles or editorials. Perchance you might want
                                                    > to
                                                    > > back up your statement with some examples... Thank you and have a very go
                                                    > od
                                                    > > day!
                                                    >
                                                    > They're not blogs, young padawan. Get the terminology right.
                                                    >

                                                    Dave and Marcus, agreed. Many of us, whether expats living in Poland, native
                                                    Poles, or individuals that live outside of Poland with an interest in what is
                                                    going on here are simply expressing our thoughts, views, opinions, ideas,
                                                    recommendations, experiences, and constructive criticisms. This is a forum, not
                                                    a blog or chat. However, we can easily create a blog if that idea ever gained
                                                    our mutual support. The value of this forum is that we all don't think alike on
                                                    every issue 100%, and this unique variety is what makes it so enriching. The
                                                    possibility always does exist that some journalist may borrow ideas and
                                                    material from others. Do you sincerely believe that all inventors, novelists,
                                                    or screenwriters came up with their ideas exclusively?

                                                    Eugene
                                                  • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 02.04.06, 19:02
                                                    ejmarkow napisał:

                                                    > usenetposts napisał:
                                                    >
                                                    > > easystreet napisała:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > Hate to burst your bubble, Maggie, but I happen to think that you f
                                                    > latter
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > yourself, indeed, by thinking that any respectable journalist can g
                                                    > et any
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > inspiration from reading this forum. You are re-discovering things
                                                    > that
                                                    > > people
                                                    > > > in Poland are aware without having you tell them "the way of the wo
                                                    > rld".
                                                    > > > I suspect that if anyone reads these blogs, it is more for language
                                                    > pract
                                                    > > ice
                                                    > > > than for ideas for news articles or editorials. Perchance you might
                                                    > want
                                                    > > to
                                                    > > > back up your statement with some examples... Thank you and have a v
                                                    > ery go
                                                    > > od
                                                    > > > day!
                                                    > >
                                                    > > They're not blogs, young padawan. Get the terminology right.
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > Dave and Marcus, agreed. Many of us, whether expats living in Poland, native
                                                    > Poles, or individuals that live outside of Poland with an interest in what is
                                                    > going on here are simply expressing our thoughts, views, opinions, ideas,
                                                    > recommendations, experiences, and constructive criticisms. This is a forum,
                                                    not
                                                    >
                                                    > a blog or chat. However, we can easily create a blog if that idea ever gained
                                                    > our mutual support. The value of this forum is that we all don't think alike
                                                    on
                                                    >
                                                    > every issue 100%, and this unique variety is what makes it so enriching. The
                                                    > possibility always does exist that some journalist may borrow ideas and
                                                    > material from others. Do you sincerely believe that all inventors, novelists,
                                                    > or screenwriters came up with their ideas exclusively?
                                                    >
                                                    > Eugene


                                                    I don't have a problem with them doing it. seriously. This is a pretty public
                                                    medium, almost anyone in the world could be looking in here. Once you say
                                                    something on any of these places, the words may remain your intellectual
                                                    property, for whatever that might be worth, but you no longer control the words
                                                    any more than you can control the flight of a piece of fruit you just threw
                                                    into a whirlwind. They could end up tomorrow on George Bush's desk, or they
                                                    could be read by no-one.

                                                    That's part of the fun, at least, for me.

                                                    The idea of a book is just to take the very best of what we've written, seeing
                                                    that this is a quality forum with a lot of interesting people on it, and to let
                                                    those Fragments go to a wider public.

                                                    It's no more revolutionary an idea than this is:
                                                    czytelnia.onet.pl/0,15421,0,1,nowosci.html
                                                    where the author borrows wholesale from chatroom conversations, randki
                                                    profiles, all sorts of interactive stuff off the internet. What results is
                                                    pretty original, modern prose with quite an edge to it. This book is climbing
                                                    up the bestseller list and most of it is made up of conversations not that
                                                    different from the ones going on right here in this group.

                                                    Basically we have the narrator, a woman out of her first marriage, going online
                                                    to have a crack at online dating, and receiving instead of a boyfriend a bunch
                                                    of sockpuppets, some headspinningly intriguing conversation, and an internet
                                                    addiction. This has to be read, actually. I couldn't put it down. Even Lord
                                                    Archer and his Purgatory had to wait on my toilet shelf.
                                                  • easystreet Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 02.04.06, 19:49
                                                    ooops, I did really think that I was dealing with foreigners living in Poland
                                                    and not foreigner wannabes and a mutual admiration society. And what again is a
                                                    padawan? Uncle Davey, have you ever been one?
                                                  • easystreet Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 02.04.06, 19:50
                                                    ...been one/seen one/done one, hmmmmm?
                                                  • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 02.04.06, 20:03
                                                    easystreet napisała:

                                                    > ooops, I did really think that I was dealing with foreigners living in Poland
                                                    > and not foreigner wannabes and a mutual admiration society. And what again is
                                                    a
                                                    >
                                                    > padawan?

                                                    easystreet napisała:

                                                    > ooops, I did really think that I was dealing with foreigners living in Poland
                                                    > and not foreigner wannabes and a mutual admiration society. And what again is
                                                    > a padawan?

                                                    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padawan
                                                    > Uncle Davey, have you ever been one?

                                                    Of course. Do I read like a youngling to you?
                                                    I did my padawanship under the great Jackiah the Tokemanite.
                            • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 21:30
                              maggie_, you're right. the bbc site is it's own mini-bureaucracy. you can't
                              express anything without (after your official registration) it being passed
                              through various committees before a decision is made on whether you can or
                              cannot say something ... $&^("!%^*()_ to the BBC !
                              • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 21:34
                                i'm reminded of reading one of Waldek's comments and being admittedly a little
                                shocked that such a thing was allowed... though i'm certainly not saying that
                                I don't think it should be allowed, on the contrary i think the Waldeks of
                                this world are as necessary, welcome, useful etc. as the rest of us.
                                • ejmarkow Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 22:03
                                  > Gazeta is one, if not the only newspaper, which has such a big forum where
                                  > you can rant and rave about your ideas on the world...

                                  The New York Times also has an extensive readers forum. The problem is, it's
                                  not very easy to find, and English only. For example, the 'forums' section on
                                  Gazeta Wyborcza is clearly listed as a button on the first page on the top
                                  menu. Very easy to find. And the format of GW forums are nicely organized as
                                  well. To get to a forum in the NYT, you must first click on "Readers' Opinions"
                                  under the "Opinions" section, then go to the right hand side to "Find a forum".
                                  The navigation isn't good at all because you can't get to the forums section
                                  from the initial page. Then, once you get to the forums, the topic index isn't
                                  listed in the easy to read 'tree' format like it is in GW. So really, GW does a
                                  great job with the forums. GW also allows a user to create a private forum,
                                  where the NYT doesn't allow that.

                                  Cheers,

                                  Eugene

            • dzejti Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 18:43
              ms.jones napisała:

              > > brits doing before the invention of the toaster?
              > The Romans used to toast bread (latin tostum = scorched, burnt), it could be
              > their legacy. It was a Brit who invented the first toaster. They are good at
              > inventing things.

              But honestly, how did British bread look like before the toast era?

              > > asked her if she knew 'cheesy beans'
              > beans and cheese, what else is it? It's no stranger than pierogi z kapusta or
              > serem or jagody (yum), but less strange than ryba po grecku, fasolka po
              > bretonsku, bulka paryska or even a pizza with kapusta - I had one in Lublin.

              That's not what i meant. it's absolutely natural to have the idea to add cheese
              to beans but what i mean is the urge to classify or name every meal which is a
              bit altered from it's original. and the reason why you have a lot of strange
              food in poland is the fact that people do experiments which is a good thing
              cause you can't learn without doing mistakes.

              > > really worried that maps are banned in england
              > if you tested Poles on their knowledge of countries 1000 miles east of Poland,
              > how would they do?

              it's anyway only Russiawink
              Brits on the other hand should know where poland is. we are one of the biggest
              countries in europe and our relations with the UK have been more intensive than
              ours with Kirgistan. someone suggested earlier that Welsh universities are bad
              (i tak that as prove of english superiority). this geography student was from
              the uni of sussex, top 15 in the UK. My fellow students on my European studies
              course didn't know anything about the EU. They hardly understood the difference
              between Europe and the European Union, so how to discuss with them about
              benefits of a common currency within an integrated european market.

              > > - and they are arrogant, convinced about their superiority, uneducated
              >
              > Funny how this country of uneducated people leaves the educated ones behind.

              hmmm... let's see what the future brings.

              > There are prejudiced and narrow-minded groups or individuals in every society.
              > I'm sorry if you had bad experiences. In my experience this is a very tolerant
              > country but it takes time and effort to find your own place in the new
              > environment; it's a two way process.

              I totally agree and poland will probably face similair problems with immigrants
              in 50 years or so. In general i like the UK and i think that every nation has
              the same amount of good and bad people, clever and stupid ones.

              • nasza_maggie Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 18:54
                Ahhhh Llandudno, went there on holiday with my mothersmile

                Oh and as far as geography goes....Ireland and Northern Ireland. I must say, I
                knew very few natives who actually knew the difference or could pin point why
                the IRA was bombing London etc. No idea about local politics....
                • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:23
                  > Oh and as far as geography goes....Ireland and Northern Ireland. I must say, I
                  > knew very few natives who actually knew the difference or could pin point why
                  > the IRA was bombing London etc. No idea about local politics....

                  This one really surprises me. Are you talking about natives of Ireland, or GB?
                  • nasza_maggie Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:24
                    GB. And even some of Irish descent!
                    • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:25
                      As said before - it surprises me, but then again, it depends on who you talked
                      to I suppose.
              • russh Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:21
                > But honestly, how did British bread look like before the toast era?

                Ever thought that maybe the toaster was invented to fit around British bread?
                Seriously though, the main problem started I think with the mass produced,
                packaged bread.

                Go to the one of the few local bakers that are left, and you will find both a
                different standard and a different shape.

                > In general i like the UK and i think that every nation has
                > the same amount of good and bad people, clever and stupid ones.

                I'm not sure about the same amount, but for sure every nation has it's good, bad
                and ugly.
          • ianek70 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.03.06, 20:13
            dzejti napisał:

            > - 'how are u' on every occasion, but not meaning it really and not caring
            about
            > hearing an honest answer, cause you are expected to say 'fine', 'ok' etc.
            True,
            > we also say 'co slychac?' but we don't say it with a bright smile to someone
            we
            > see the first time in our life.

            In Polish you also say cześć, which literally means something like respect,
            salutations, but as a greeting it's just a word, the same as "alright?" or "how
            you doing?". It's a convention, like if someone sneezes, you say "bless you"
            even if you don't believe in God.

            > - food: chips, jacket potatoes, mashed potatoes - you name it; it needs
            potatoe
            > s
            > in it, then it's british. Eating sausages, bacon, mushrooms and beans for
            > breakfast - yak. Bread that you can't eat without toasting

            The bread in Britain is generally very horrible, that's true, and most people
            who've spent any time abroad hate it.
            And what kind of chips? Real chips, the big fat things with vinegar, are above
            criticism.

            > and this food categorizing: e.g. my girlfriend worked in a restaurant and a
            che
            > f
            > asked her if she knew 'cheesy beans'? The chef said it's one of his favourite
            > dishes - and it's just those canned tomato beans with grated cheese melted
            > together.

            Hmm, sounds dodgy, but I like cheesy beanos:

            Toast a few slices of bread, pour beans on them and grate cheese over the top.
            Sprinkle on some chilli powder or whatever spices are handy, then put them
            under the grill.
            This was the staple meal of the young unemployed in the 80s and early 90s, the
            equivalent of zupa chińska for dole Poles.

            > Another time she was eating a fried agg on a toast in the evening and
            > everyone was so surpised how she could eat breakfast in the evening.

            This is actually quite common among people who've just come home from the pub
            and didn't have time for a roll and chips from the chippie.
            • make_it Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 28.03.06, 23:38
              I live in little town and i hate dishes the dirt.... I'd like leave Poland for
              summer because I've never been in England.
              • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.03.06, 23:19
                where abouts do you live? I live in Birmingham
                • ejmarkow Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 08.04.06, 21:44
                  What really pisses me off is what recently happened to me. I am in the market
                  looking to buy 8 windows from my barn, made of wood. The windows don't have to
                  be elegant like the ones on my home, only standard, single wood framed windows.
                  Well, one guy from a village about 15 km away from me called me on my cell
                  phone (he had heard from someone I'm looking for windows) and told me he makes
                  windows, and gives me his name and location. After hearing my accent, he
                  immediately asks me, "You're from another country, aren't you?". (I'm sure he
                  knew prior to calling me) I told him, "Yes, from the USA." Well, you can
                  probably guess the effect my foreign status has, and it has happened in many
                  cases here already. He obviously, immediately, doubles the normal going price
                  for such a window, due to he fact I'm a foreigner, living in Poland. In other
                  words, if I had a native Polish friend of mine call him for the price for such
                  windows, it would have been half of what he quoted me. Anyway, the story does
                  have a happy ending. I found a window maker that will produce the 8 windows for
                  me at the normal, going rate. This isn't the first time I've seen this happen.
                  It's a normal occurance here in Poland. Your foreign status gives you the
                  unfortunate honor of being charged more than a native Pole. Anyone with similar
                  experiences? Does the phrase blatant discrimination ring a bell?

                  Regards,

                  Eugene
                  Siemiechow, Poland
                  • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 08.04.06, 23:20
                    Eugene, a client of mine is a window manufacturer. He's also a US Citizen. If
                    you wanna buy windows, let me know and I'll put you in contact with him.
                    • ejmarkow Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 09.04.06, 21:23
                      usenetposts napisał:

                      > Eugene, a client of mine is a window manufacturer. He's also a US Citizen. If
                      > you wanna buy windows, let me know and I'll put you in contact with him.

                      Dave, you are generous as usual! smile Thanks! I'll see what happens with this
                      new window maker and his prices this week. If it doesn't work out, I'll contact
                      you right away.

                      Best Regards,

                      Eugene
                      Siemiechow, Poland


                      • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 09.04.06, 21:28
                        ejmarkow napisał:

                        > usenetposts napisał:
                        >
                        > > Eugene, a client of mine is a window manufacturer. He's also a US Citizen
                        > . If
                        > > you wanna buy windows, let me know and I'll put you in contact with him.
                        >
                        > Dave, you are generous as usual! smile Thanks! I'll see what happens with this
                        > new window maker and his prices this week. If it doesn't work out, I'll
                        contact
                        >
                        > you right away.
                        >
                        > Best Regards,
                        >
                        > Eugene
                        > Siemiechow, Poland
                        >

                        OK.
    • gatablanca Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 21.04.06, 15:49
      it's surprising how poland make you guys hit the roof..

      i'm a polish studing currently in korea. i'm live in guite international
      enviroment and we use to complain the same way about those "stupid koreans"

      no wonder, living abroad may be really frustrating. i can understand your
      feelings but one thing is for sure: although i'm polish, i can easily notice
      and really dislike the MOST of the things which piss you off in poland

      - some of them are exagerated eg. poles don't drink so much vodka these days-

      and i wouldn't say i identify myself with them.

      many of my polish friend would agree with me. it's too difficult to change the
      world in a flash. poland has already changed for better since 1989. just give
      poles some time.

      and in the meantime, take care of your balls wink
      • lisettek Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 21.04.06, 16:28
        Well..
        What pisses me off the most..
        The newest reality show called "Parliament and government of Polska a la PiS",
        also the growing political extremism (LPR, Polish Youth, Samoobrona).

        But what really, really amazes me is the amount of stupidity, intolerance and
        ignorance when i read comments or stories about gay issues in Poland - i mean,
        really, Poland, are you in EU or what?
        • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 22.04.06, 20:19
          lisettek napisała:

          > Well..
          > What pisses me off the most..
          > The newest reality show called "Parliament and government of Polska a la PiS",
          > also the growing political extremism (LPR, Polish Youth, Samoobrona).
          >
          > But what really, really amazes me is the amount of stupidity, intolerance and
          > ignorance when i read comments or stories about gay issues in Poland - i mean,
          > really, Poland, are you in EU or what?

          I quite liked it when the European Community was more about economic issues and
          not so much about the free movement of vaseline.
          • lisettek Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 24.04.06, 00:25
            But why are you drawing a parallel between "gay" and "sex"?

            I am talking about poles that get beaten up, I am talking about poles that get
            fired, I am talking about poles who are kicked away from their families, so on
            and so on - there are like thousands of such stories, all because of the same
            reason, these poles are gay.
            And in the middle of all this is the state (meaning political parties etc) which
            only supports such hate-speech and attitude (for example All Polish Youth's "we
            will do to you what Hitler did to the jews").
            Where, i ask you, do you even get the nerve to bring up a "vaseline" issue? A
            bit low, isn' t it?

            I say that it's about time EU stops focusing on economy, if such things are
            happening in 21-st century.
            • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 24.04.06, 12:42
              lisettek napisała:

              > But why are you drawing a parallel between "gay" and "sex"?

              What area of human endeavour was I supposed to linked "gay" to, then?
              Gardening, maybe? Origami? Don't make me laugh.

              > I am talking about poles that get beaten up, I am talking about poles that get
              > fired, I am talking about poles who are kicked away from their families, so on
              > and so on - there are like thousands of such stories, all because of the same
              > reason, these poles are gay.

              If a person keeps their sexuality to themselves, then they will not be treated
              any differently becasue of it. I fail to understand why people feels the need
              to get so exhibitionist about their sexual preference.

              > And in the middle of all this is the state (meaning political parties etc)
              whic
              > h
              > only supports such hate-speech and attitude (for example All Polish
              Youth's "we
              > will do to you what Hitler did to the jews").

              In point of fact the police where right there stopping them from doing it there
              and then. And that was paid for out of tax payer's money. I'm sorry if I paid
              too little for that in your view.

              > Where, i ask you, do you even get the nerve to bring up a "vaseline" issue? A
              > bit low, isn' t it?

              I don't have the problem with bringing up a vaseline issue. If you prefer me to
              come right out with it and say "protecting people who have a penchant for
              buggery" then I can do that also.

              > I say that it's about time EU stops focusing on economy, if such things are
              > happening in 21-st century.

              If we stop focusing on the economy, we might not have one to refocus on later.
              But the shiftlirters have we alway with us, and whenever we wish we can comb
              our hair for them.

              But I won't be doing that anytime soon.
              • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 24.04.06, 21:41
                > If a person keeps their sexuality to themselves, then they will not be
                treated
                > any differently becasue of it. I fail to understand why people feels the need
                > to get so exhibitionist about their sexual preference.

                so you'd be perfectly happy to have to maintain an all-encompassing facade
                around a part of your identity for your whole life would you?
                wouldyou be happy to marry a man for the sake of your parents and society?

                > In point of fact the police where right there stopping them from doing it
                there
                >
                > and then. And that was paid for out of tax payer's money. I'm sorry if I paid
                > too little for that in your view.

                and you think that protecting one citizen from another is a waste of money?

                Well well...
                • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.04.06, 21:50
                  marcus_anglikiem napisał:

                  > > If a person keeps their sexuality to themselves, then they will not be
                  > treated
                  > > any differently becasue of it. I fail to understand why people feels the
                  > need
                  > > to get so exhibitionist about their sexual preference.
                  >
                  > so you'd be perfectly happy to have to maintain an all-encompassing facade
                  > around a part of your identity for your whole life would you?
                  > wouldyou be happy to marry a man for the sake of your parents and society?

                  I'm not a woman.

                  >
                  > > In point of fact the police where right there stopping them from doing it
                  >
                  > there
                  > >
                  > > and then. And that was paid for out of tax payer's money. I'm sorry if I
                  > paid
                  > > too little for that in your view.
                  >
                  > and you think that protecting one citizen from another is a waste of money?
                  >
                  > Well well...

                  They did protect them, and I helped to pay for it. She was talking as if
                  nothing was being done to protect them. I did not say it was a waste of money.

                  Nobody wants people to come to blows over the issue. I wish the extremists from
                  both sides would be more reasonable and stop provoking each other, and then
                  maybe my tax zlotys could be spent on something more productive than police
                  overtime pay.
              • lisettek Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.04.06, 01:47
                > What area of human endeavour was I supposed to linked "gay" to, then?
                > Gardening, maybe? Origami? Don't make me laugh.

                Well, gay means only sex, whereas hetero means emotions, spiritual connection
                and love, home.. and sex. Yeah. Gays just go and f*** around. What emotions?
                What love?
                C'mon Dave, don't tell me you are just as stupid as an average All Polish Youth
                member. Sexual identity isn't only about physical attraction, now is it? I
                presume you are hetero, so.. do you constantly go around checking out women whom
                you could.. well, do? Do you see women only as sexual objects? So, why do you
                presume that gays do?
                By the way, I wonder why gay people themselves never, never start with the sex
                topic, its always straight people's initiative to discuss someones sex life
                (which, i'm sure gays agree, is a person's private matter).

                > If a person keeps their sexuality to themselves, then they will not be treated
                > any differently becasue of it. I fail to understand why people feels the need
                > to get so exhibitionist about their sexual preference.

                When you go on a street and hold your wife's hand, do you do it because you want
                to yell to the world: hey, look at me, i'm hetero!
                Do you refer to your loved one as "my wife" because you wish to stress that it
                is a woman that you live with?
                And all of the sudden, if a gay man holds a hand of his boyfriend, or a lesbian
                holds a hand of her girlfriend.. or if a gay refers to his/her partner as "my
                boyfriend/girlfriend".. this is exhibitionism?
                Maybe they also just do it.. because they do it, because it feels right, they
                don't want to prove anything to anybody, they just hold hands because that is
                what you do when you love someone.
                And, indeed, as Marcus said, who on earth has the right to force these people to
                lie about the biggest and happiest part of their lives - love. Yet it is done
                every single day. And once someone says "i do not want to lie anymore" - do you
                know what happens to them in this country? They lose. Everything. And next
                morning they read from a newspaper that the government has an idea to ban
                homosexuals from working as doctors, teachers, psychologists.. and prime
                minister claims that "from now on will start a dark era for gays".

                > In point of fact the police where right there stopping them from doing it
                > there and then. And that was paid for out of tax payer's money. I'm sorry if I
                > paid too little for that in your view.

                Yes, naturally, gays do not pay taxes, so of course this money paid to the
                policemen to protect gays from their own nation could not come from their pockets.
                Thats right, pure logic.

                > If we stop focusing on the economy, we might not have one to refocus on later.
                > But the shiftlirters have we alway with us, and whenever we wish we can comb
                > our hair for them.

                If we don't focus on human life and equal opportunities, we soon might not have
                anyone who needs economy later.

                Well, if you have kids, I hope that every time they tell you about their life,
                something in the back of your head would say: maybe it is not true, maybe they
                are not telling me something because they have heard my opinion about gay people.
                • asiaasia1 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 25.04.06, 20:31
                  Lisettek,
                  Just a quick note to let you know that I really loved your last post.

                  I'm not a lesbian and I am Polish...

                  However, I fell that everything you wrote about is right.

                  A.
                • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 26.04.06, 22:11
                  lisettek napisała:

                  > > What area of human endeavour was I supposed to linked "gay" to, then?
                  > > Gardening, maybe? Origami? Don't make me laugh.
                  >
                  > Well, gay means only sex, whereas hetero means emotions, spiritual connection
                  > and love, home.. and sex. Yeah. Gays just go and f*** around. What emotions?
                  > What love?

                  Define homosexual or heterosexual love for me in a way that excludes sex.

                  > C'mon Dave, don't tell me you are just as stupid as an average All Polish
                  Youth
                  > member.

                  Kindly don't patronise me. It is a very transparent tactic to accuse someone
                  who disagrees with you of extremism and stupidity.

                  All I am saying is that the gender argument is about gender. And you take this
                  very obvious statement and try and paint a swastika on my head with it.

                  >Sexual identity isn't only about physical attraction, now is it? I
                  > presume you are hetero, so.. do you constantly go around checking out women
                  who
                  > m
                  > you could.. well, do? Do you see women only as sexual objects? So, why do you
                  > presume that gays do?

                  Of course I make an assessment of the doability of any female in the first
                  couple of seconds of looking at her, and I assure you that every man does.

                  They may not take it any further than that, as that would be bound up with
                  certain consequences.

                  > By the way, I wonder why gay people themselves never, never start with the sex
                  > topic, its always straight people's initiative to discuss someones sex life
                  > (which, i'm sure gays agree, is a person's private matter).

                  When they go parading down the street, then they are starting the discussion
                  about their deviant tastes and lifestyle. But in Poland there are very few of
                  them, so we can happily leave them in peace. Most of the people in the march
                  were foreign flying gay pickets or politicians standing up for gay rights while
                  not being gay themselves. The Polish gays were few and far between.

                  >
                  > > If a person keeps their sexuality to themselves, then they will not be tr
                  > eated
                  > > any differently becasue of it. I fail to understand why people feels the
                  > need
                  > > to get so exhibitionist about their sexual preference.
                  >
                  > When you go on a street and hold your wife's hand, do you do it because you
                  wan
                  > t
                  > to yell to the world: hey, look at me, i'm hetero!

                  No. I do it because otherwise she would fall over. Let's leave my family out of
                  this. I didn't go ad hominem with you, but if you want, I can start, and then
                  you will know something about it.

                  > Do you refer to your loved one as "my wife" because you wish to stress that it
                  > is a woman that you live with?

                  It is obvious that I live with a woman, but I say "my wife" because I am
                  married to her. Marriage is a biblical institution. I can't see why you persist
                  in ad hominems. Has nobody taught you how to debate properly?

                  > And all of the sudden, if a gay man holds a hand of his boyfriend, or a
                  lesbian
                  > holds a hand of her girlfriend.. or if a gay refers to his/her partner as "my
                  > boyfriend/girlfriend".. this is exhibitionism?

                  Not if they do it amongst people whom they have ascertained will not be
                  offended or shocked by it.

                  > Maybe they also just do it.. because they do it, because it feels right, they
                  > don't want to prove anything to anybody, they just hold hands because that is
                  > what you do when you love someone.
                  > And, indeed, as Marcus said, who on earth has the right to force these people
                  t
                  > o
                  > lie about the biggest and happiest part of their lives - love.

                  I'm not asking them to lie about it. The liars were the people who came from
                  abroad and from leftist political parties to swell the march and make it looks
                  as if there were a whole bunch of gays in this country.

                  The liars are people who say that 10% of the population are gay. It is in fact
                  not the case.

                  > Yet it is done
                  > every single day. And once someone says "i do not want to lie anymore" - do
                  you
                  > know what happens to them in this country? They lose. Everything. And next
                  > morning they read from a newspaper that the government has an idea to ban
                  > homosexuals from working as doctors, teachers, psychologists.. and prime
                  > minister claims that "from now on will start a dark era for gays".
                  >

                  He was democratically elected. Who are you to say you know what's good for this
                  country better than him?

                  What were his exact words, by the way, in Polish, and when did he say them?

                  > > In point of fact the police where right there stopping them from doing it
                  > > there and then. And that was paid for out of tax payer's money. I'm sorry
                  > if I
                  > > paid too little for that in your view.
                  >
                  > Yes, naturally, gays do not pay taxes, so of course this money paid to the
                  > policemen to protect gays from their own nation could not come from their
                  pocke
                  > ts.
                  > Thats right, pure logic.
                  >

                  The Young Polish Farmers Society or whatever they were called also pay taxes.
                  Why were their taxes not used in making the police behave the way they wanted?
                  That's were you get if you apply YOUR logic to the limit.

                  I would like to see my tax money paid on more productive things than
                  policemen's overtime. And that can be achieved when extremists don't clash with
                  each other.

                  > > If we stop focusing on the economy, we might not have one to refocus on l
                  > ater.
                  > > But the shiftlirters have we alway with us, and whenever we wish we can c
                  > omb
                  > > our hair for them.
                  >
                  > If we don't focus on human life and equal opportunities, we soon might not
                  have
                  > anyone who needs economy later.
                  >

                  Equal opportunities is not a Darwinist concept.

                  > Well, if you have kids, I hope that every time they tell you about their life,
                  > something in the back of your head would say: maybe it is not true, maybe they
                  > are not telling me something because they have heard my opinion about gay
                  peopl
                  > e.

                  You leave my kids and your witchy curses for my relationship out of my family
                  and anyone else's, out of this group. The kind of stunt you have just pulled is
                  utterly unacceptable.

                  If you cannot keep a modicum of adherence to conventionality about your way of
                  arguing, and have to drag your opponents wife and family into it, wishing
                  destructive things for them, then your opinions are simply unworthy of respect.
                  • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 29.04.06, 16:04
                    Dave, what is it that bothers you about seeing people who are different from
                    yourself ?
                    • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 29.04.06, 17:23

                      marcus_anglikiem napisał:

                      > Dave, what is it that bothers you about seeing people who are different from
                      > yourself ?

                      We are all different, but what bothers me about the militant homoes is that
                      they are not treating the matter as if it were their lot in life to deal with,
                      but something to be paraded and celebrated like it was the same as the model
                      God gave us.

                      If they are going to be militant in presenting their view that homosexuality is
                      not sinful, although the Bible say it is, then I will also be militant about
                      saying that practicising homosexuality IS sinful, and nothing to have "gay
                      pride", whatever that is, about.

                      Other than that, they do not actually bother me personally, and I have had
                      friends who "came out" as being gay and I did not turn my back on them.

                      I sympathise with people who have all sorts of conditions and I'm not short on
                      faults myself too, but treating a fault or a sickness like it was something
                      great is not helpful.
                      • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.04.06, 10:12
                        > We are all different, but what bothers me about the militant homoes is that
                        > they are not treating the matter as if it were their lot in life to deal
                        with,
                        > but something to be paraded and celebrated like it was the same as the model
                        > God gave us.

                        Have you ever thought that perhaps the point of this loud, colourful parading
                        is simply to appeal to people to accept the quiet day to day non-parading
                        life of gays; that in the same way as other protesters, marching on the streets
                        is not a way of life or an end in itself.

                        > If they are going to be militant in presenting their view that homosexuality
                        is
                        >
                        > not sinful, although the Bible say it is, then I will also be militant about
                        > saying that practicising homosexuality IS sinful, and nothing to have "gay
                        > pride", whatever that is, about.

                        You say that you will "say that practicising homosexuality IS sinful", and i
                        presume that this is what is in the bible, but what does the bible say as to
                        how gays should be treated? frowned upon but allowed to live freely as the rest
                        of us? condemned and discriminated against? punished?
                        i presume the answer is that we should live and let live. in short, tolerance.

                        i believe that people should calm down - is homosexuality a threat? how is it
                        that these people constitute a threat?
                        • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.04.06, 13:04
                          marcus_anglikiem napisał:

                          > > We are all different, but what bothers me about the militant homoes is th
                          > at
                          > > they are not treating the matter as if it were their lot in life to deal
                          > with,
                          > > but something to be paraded and celebrated like it was the same as the mo
                          > del
                          > > God gave us.
                          >
                          > Have you ever thought that perhaps the point of this loud, colourful parading
                          > is simply to appeal to people to accept the quiet day to day non-parading
                          > life of gays; that in the same way as other protesters, marching on the
                          streets
                          > is not a way of life or an end in itself.
                          >

                          It is a propaganda effort to "normalise" something that is not supposed to be
                          normal.

                          > > If they are going to be militant in presenting their view that homosexual
                          > ity
                          > is
                          > >
                          > > not sinful, although the Bible say it is, then I will also be militant ab
                          > out
                          > > saying that practicising homosexuality IS sinful, and nothing to have "ga
                          > y
                          > > pride", whatever that is, about.
                          >
                          > You say that you will "say that practicising homosexuality IS sinful", and i
                          > presume that this is what is in the bible, but what does the bible say as to
                          > how gays should be treated? frowned upon but allowed to live freely as the
                          rest
                          >
                          > of us? condemned and discriminated against? punished?

                          We don't live in a theocracy like Old Testament Israel, and so what should
                          happen to them is the following:

                          1. They should not be discriminated against in terms of employment or taxation,
                          or freedom to travel and trade as long as they do not engage in behaviours
                          which are publicly offensive.

                          2. As far as the church is concerned, they should be able to go to church and
                          take part just as anybody can, but if they are ion a homosexual relationship or
                          intending to be in one, they have no business taking a leadership role in the
                          Church.

                          3. They should not be able to propagandize to children that gayness is just
                          another alternative to heterosexuality when that is an evident lie.

                          4. Their "marriage" arrangements should be given another name, maybe "parriage"
                          or something, and not be carried out in Christian places of worship. They
                          should be treated equally in matters of taxation and intestacy, but not allowed
                          to adopt children. If they had their own children from previous heterosexual
                          relationships, then obviously they would retain custody of them if they were
                          the partner awarded custody by the court, but judges, in awarding custody,
                          ought to consider which of the parents can best give the child a normal family
                          life and safety from abuse.

                          > i presume the answer is that we should live and let live. in short, tolerance.
                          >

                          We do tolerate. But tolerance is not the same as thinking that something is
                          great or being forced to refrain from criticism of it.

                          > i believe that people should calm down - is homosexuality a threat? how is it
                          > that these people constitute a threat?

                          Well, I have to say that when I got molested myself by some old queen at the
                          tender age of fifteen I felt more than slightly threatened, and sickened, but
                          if you are gonna persist in your view that these people are so innocent,
                          there's probably nothing I can say that will persuade you.

                          Regularly in the news we see what these people will do to get more people,
                          especially juveniles, into their ranks.

                          This gay marching is just trying to give a pretty face to something that is
                          disordered, sick, and sinister, and has nothing to do with God's plan for
                          humanity.

                          But the biggest threat is that we live in times when you are simply no longer
                          allowed to say your view on something any more. Most people probably now find
                          themselves in the category that they don't like homosexuality, but are afraid
                          to say so. That is far from being an acceptable state of affairs.
                          • marcus_anglikiem Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.04.06, 15:11
                            generally i agree with your points. though i don't think that homosexuality CAN
                            be presented as an 'alternative' like "Grzeska" or "Prince Polo". I also
                            believe that it is wrong for people for be thrown out of their homes or
                            discriminated against in other ways and that the law should provide some
                            protection against such things without, obviously, the law taking any moral
                            judgement.
                            Regarding your personal experience, i do think punishments and disincentives
                            for people who interfere with youngsters should be harsh.though of course,
                            paedophiles and child abusers are a separate matter and i believe the
                            connection between the two matters is not strong. Though of course, both groups
                            (gays who are consenting adults and paedophiles/child abusers) in some societies
                            live in a secrecy. i believe that the former should be visible and tolerated or
                            accepted depending on your point of view whilst the latter should perhaps be
                            locked away along with murderers and rapists.
                            • brookie Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.04.06, 16:47
                              poor hygiene, no comments
                              public health services, shocking
                              taxation offices
                              employment, bosses from hell
                              catholic church, turned me off my religion for good
                              • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.04.06, 17:34
                                brookie napisała:

                                > poor hygiene, no comments
                                > public health services, shocking
                                > taxation offices

                                Whooh. Indeed.

                                > employment, bosses from hell

                                They have no management skills because they had no-one to learn them off. One
                                would feel sorry for them if they at least realised how far their habits are
                                from the state of the art, and that there is actually something that needs
                                learning in management, it's actually ... a subject! But they think they are so
                                clever, and know it all. I love to ask "which management text book did you read
                                that taught you to do that?" as they haven't usually read a single one.

                                Not one single solitary one. They don't even realise why they should.

                                As Confucious is reputed to have said: "He who knows not, and knows not that he
                                knows not, is a fool".

                                > catholic church, turned me off my religion for good

                                There's always Protestantism. Works for me.
                          • kylie1 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.04.06, 21:09
                            Bless you for loving and honoring yourself enough to speak about your personal
                            experience, Dave. It takes a LOT OF courage to openely say what happened. I
                            guess it takes even more guts to be able to cling to sanity after something
                            like that. How does a person let go and maintain his integrity after this...I
                            don't know.

                            My prayers are with you, Dave!

                            Thanks for sharing

                            Kylie smile







                            • brookie Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.04.06, 22:35
                              I was raised in catholic family, but as I grew I watched some members of the
                              familia getting sick on their head. Symptoms were: talking bullshit,
                              discriminating women, no birth control as the main part of family planning
                              resulted in bringing to live a couple of down syndrom kids.
                              Abortion- out of question.
                              I'm glad not to go to church now, since I've been out of reach.
                              • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.04.06, 23:34
                                brookie napisała:

                                > I was raised in catholic family, but as I grew I watched some members of the
                                > familia getting sick on their head. Symptoms were: talking bullshit,
                                > discriminating women, no birth control as the main part of family planning
                                > resulted in bringing to live a couple of down syndrom kids.
                                > Abortion- out of question.
                                > I'm glad not to go to church now, since I've been out of reach.


                                The tragic thing is that all this birth control rubbish has nothing to do with
                                the Bible. Like most off the odd lines the RCs have taken over a bunch of stuff
                                over the years the authority for this is not biblical and has nothing to do
                                with the actual Christian faith as set out by Jesus.

                                You don't need to go anywhere or talk to anybody to have a relationship with
                                God anyway. I find that reading the Bible prayerfully is quite enough. CHirch,
                                if you can find a good one, is a great priviledge, but not if it tells lies and
                                becomes a stumbling block. In that case it is better to be on one's own with a
                                Bible and one's never-failing kneecaps.
                            • usenetposts Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 30.04.06, 23:29
                              kylie1 napisała:

                              > Bless you for loving and honoring yourself enough to speak about your
                              personal
                              > experience, Dave. It takes a LOT OF courage to openely say what happened. I
                              > guess it takes even more guts to be able to cling to sanity after something
                              > like that. How does a person let go and maintain his integrity after this...I
                              > don't know.
                              >
                              > My prayers are with you, Dave!
                              >
                              > Thanks for sharing
                              >
                              > Kylie smile
                              >

                              Thanks.

                              I would have been less bothered about it but for two things:

                              1) This guy, who was a leading authority about fishes, had been very good to me
                              and I thought it was because of his being inclined to me in a friendly way
                              because of my interest in the subject. When he tried to initiate physical
                              contact I was particularly hurt because I felt that his earlier niceness was
                              not because he liked me for being interested in the same subject, but because
                              he fancied a piece of my juvenile ass.

                              2)I was also distressed that a bunch of other people around made like they
                              didn't see anything, because this guy was like an authority.

                              That was what got me about this occasion. I had other times when I got
                              propositioned - I don't know why I had this "success" with them and it is
                              scarcely something for me to get flattered about, quite the opposite in fact -
                              but on those occasions I just could tell them to f*ck off without getting hot
                              under the collar about it.

                              But no-one's gonna tell me that shiftlirters don't try it on with kids, bo ja
                              wiem swoje.

                              It stands to reason, really, that pedophilia is more common with the homo than
                              with the hetero. A truly heterosexual man will not find what he is looking for
                              in a pre-pubertal woman. If someone interferes with kids, it means that they
                              are probably either gay, gay in denial or bi. What they are looking for in a
                              sexual partner is presumably there in a child, especially as the majority of
                              supposedly gay men are woeful inadequates (and not usually "gay" at all, in the
                              traditional sense of the word) and never managed to cope with a relationship
                              with an adult woman, and so they go to other frustrated guys for sex, the way
                              people do in other scenarios where women are not available, such as prison or
                              boarding school.

                              In East European countries, these inadequate people are able to pay for sex
                              without the huge stigma being attached that is a barrier to it in the West, and
                              the fact that "the game" in the west is riddled with drug culture and
                              criminality, whereas here it is ersatz child maintenance in most cases. So off
                              they go and get addicted to easy paid sex with prostitutes, but the pay-off is
                              that they are not trying to persuade themselves they are "gay", and so the only
                              ones you get on gay pride marches are foreigners shipped in for the purpose,
                              politicians and other public figures from Poland showing "solidarity" with
                              these foreign pickets, and a handful of thtudentth who think it's fashionable.
                              • kylie1 Re: What pisses you off the most in Poland 01.05.06, 00:20
                                >I felt that his earlier niceness was
                                > not because he liked me for being interested in the same subject, but because
                                > he fancied a piece of my juvenile ass.

                                That's an excellent comment, Dave. Most pedophiles make friends with kids by
                                using the "role model" approach or simply by being extra nice. Other than the
                                interest in fish, they like to lure kids with pets, take them places, promise
                                things, get extremely freindly with the parents of the child, etc. All kids (
                                be it small or teenagers) by nature crave crave attention, affection and
                                kindness. Kids just take things and people at face value. Unfortunately, kids
                                by nature trust people. The physical side of this horror is a huge hurdle to
                                deal with, but I believe the emotional hurt goes much deeper. Whether it's fish
                                or pets or other interests, pedophiles are in persuit of seduction. They will
                                exploit kids weaknesses through their cruel mind games.

                                Those people are sick in the head. Here in Canada they have already caught
                                pedophiles among respected teachers, hockey coaches, scout leaders, doctors and
                                babysitters. Like you, Dave, I can't explain their sick interest in kids.

                                This is truly a horrible crime and I feel like chopping off their
                                unmentionables so they can't do it any more to anyone else.

                                Kitchen is calling..

                                All the best, Dave,

                                kylie smile
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