Ever met anyone from Warsaw?

20.03.06, 16:25
I've lived in Poland for 12 years and I've met folk from every corner of this
land, from every little village.
I've known folk from Zławieś Wielka and Długie Pole, Gdańsk, Będzin,
Wadowice, Poznań, all the wee places near Proszowice that even the villagers
of Proszowice have never heard of, people that were born near lakes, beside
the beach, between mountains, I've been in places that aren't on maps and met
there people from places that aren't on other maps. I've been in Zielona Góra
and 25 other places that start with Z, in Słubice I met folk from Szczecin, I
drank with Rzeszowians in Gliwice and I've even bumped into people from the
swamps of the North East where there aren't any people. I know plenty of
people who've worked in Warsaw, I've even been there myself.
But I've never met anyone who comes from Warsaw.
Everyone in Warsaw complains that everyone else in Warsaw is an incomer.
Maybe.
It seems there is nobody from Warsaw either inside or outside Warsaw. But
maybe everybody (except some actors and politicians) is ashamed of being from
Warsaw.
    • nasza_maggie Warszawa da się lubić 20.03.06, 20:42
      Ian,

      Do some reading about the Uprising and then you will know why there are hardly
      any Varsovians left.
      And you will find out why the city looks so bad. Why there is no city center.
      Why people just say they live here....and don't belong here.

      In Krakow they call us 'Warszawiacy' which is wrong as we are 'Warszawianie'.
      And notice, how when ou say you are from Warsaw the 'other side' will alwyas
      blab on about how they hate Warsaw, Varsovians etc. whilst having little or no
      clue about us and this city.
      I never start the subect, it is always the other side.



      There are ofcourse traces of the old Warsaw left. You can see some of them
      heresmile

      www.starawarszawa.pl/
      www.stalus.iq.pl/show.php
      www.warsaw.prv.pl/
      www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Warsaw/index.html



      Really, Warszawa is 'nobody's city'. That's why nobody identifies with it,
      everybody just comes here to earn money...

      There is a group of us who have ancestors left. Who have history here and who
      love this city. No matter what. But the war, the past and the politics have
      really taken their toll.

      It makes me sad that it is so badly looked after, that architecture is just one
      big experiment....if I had the bank of Donald Trump...smile

      Genealogically it is somewhat difficult to even find documents or relatives as
      this city was burnt to the ground in 1944. That includes archives and church
      archives which are of even more value...(were).



      No roots. No love.
      • usenetposts No Warsaw Pearly Kings...thank goodness. 20.03.06, 20:51
        But of course the good side about living here is that, other than a handful of
        people who are more 'from here' than others and nobody gives a shit, we are all
        incomers together. But many Polish cities are like that. Look at Wroclaw, look
        at Szczecin.

        I have no trouble feeling as much a Warsaw resident as anyone else, even though
        I'm not even Polish, and I'm pretty sure that that has something to do with it.
        • nasza_maggie Re: No Warsaw Pearly Kings...thank goodness. 20.03.06, 20:56
          I think there is something in that. In the sense that warsaw was alwyas a real
          mish mash of people. Jews, Tatars, Russians, Austrians, traders, artists,
          bankers etc. for many years.

          And show me a 'real' Londoner. Nobody there has a thing about being a Londoener
          generation athru generation. Nobody dares to ask.
          • hallie Re: No Warsaw Pearly Kings...thank goodness. 20.03.06, 22:44
            I remember very very fondly reading "Ziele na kraterze" by Melchior Wankowicz.
            The great kresowianin, can't help but like Warsow after reading his book.
            In the town I come from, 12o km from Warsaw, moving to Warsaw was synonymous
            with being a success in life. The only way was up smile
            • usenetposts Re: No Warsaw Pearly Kings...thank goodness. 21.03.06, 01:04

              hallie napisała:

              > I remember very very fondly reading "Ziele na kraterze" by Melchior Wankowicz.
              >
              > The great kresowianin, can't help but like Warsow after reading his book.
              > In the town I come from, 12o km from Warsaw, moving to Warsaw was synonymous
              > with being a success in life. The only way was up smile


              I'm not sure you can say that surname on these fora, but if the GW admins let
              it go, I won't stop it.
              • hallie Re: No Warsaw Pearly Kings...thank goodness. 21.03.06, 01:14
                Why? What's wrong with W%a*n&k£o"w$i+c!z?
      • bartis_ervin Re: Warszawa da się lubić 20.03.06, 22:29

        After we moved to Warsaw and visited friends in Lodz, Bialystok etc there was
        always a part of the discussion when I was asked "So... How do you like Warsaw?"
        And this question usually came with a sneaky look expecting an answer. Well, I
        never gave this answer. The fact that it is often "attacked", made me like
        Warsaw a lot more.

        Ervin

        Thebartiski.blogspot.com
      • ejmarkow Re: Warszawa da się lubić 21.03.06, 05:49
        > And you will find out why the city looks so bad.

        Maggie,

        If you take into consideration the lack of funds, recources, and Marshall Plan
        for Poland subsequent to WWII, the oppressive rule of communism during the next
        45+ years, the fact that Warsaw won the prize for 'most destroyed city' during
        the war....I'm actually pleasantly impressed with the aesthetic appearance of
        today's Warsaw, considering those facts. Overall, I even enjoy Warsaw more than
        Kraków. When walking around Warsaw, it is sometimes difficult to imagine that
        the city was ever destroyed 'over 85%' during both the German and Russian
        occupations. This is of course my view and I'm sure others have an entirely
        different opinion about Warsaw.

        Best Regards,

        Eugene
        • nasza_maggie Re: Warszawa da się lubić 21.03.06, 11:07
          ejmarkow napisał:

          > > And you will find out why the city looks so bad.
          >
          > Maggie,
          >
          > If you take into consideration the lack of funds, recources, and Marshall
          Plan
          > for Poland subsequent to WWII, the oppressive rule of communism during the
          next
          >
          > 45+ years, the fact that Warsaw won the prize for 'most destroyed city'
          during
          > the war....I'm actually pleasantly impressed with the aesthetic appearance of
          > today's Warsaw, considering those facts. Overall, I even enjoy Warsaw more
          than
          >
          > Kraków. When walking around Warsaw, it is sometimes difficult to imagine that
          > the city was ever destroyed 'over 85%' during both the German and Russian
          > occupations. This is of course my view and I'm sure others have an entirely
          > different opinion about Warsaw.
          >
          > Best Regards,
          >
          > Eugene


          Exactly that. It is difficult to imagine.
          So when you listen to stories about Warsaw, look at old films and photographs,
          it's very difficult to picture how the government spent the money on (re)
          buliding the capital and making an architectual nightmare...

          Nobody (privately/publically) wants to invest in the little or no kamienice
          that are left as there are thousands of ownership cases and paper work which is
          waiting decades to be sorted.
          • ejmarkow Re: Warszawa da się lubić 22.03.06, 21:31
            nasza_maggie napisała:


            > it's very difficult to picture how the government spent the money on (re)
            > buliding the capital and making an architectual nightmare...

            Maggie, after WWII, the government was a Russian (Soviet) controlled communist
            government untinterested in doing what was best for Poland, and post-war Poland
            didn't have any 'money' to create an architectual gem. The authorities had to
            dismantle buildings from the former East German lands (Szczecin, etc) and ship
            bricks to Warsaw to rebuild the capital. I repeat, the USA never gave Poland a
            similar Marshall Plan that, for example, Axis Germany received. The Marshall
            plan pumped billions of US dollars into rebuilding Western Europe, but Poland
            was ignored. How can you possible rebuild a nation's capitol to it's former
            glory when cash is lacking?

            > Nobody (privately/publically) wants to invest in the little or no kamienice
            > that are left as there are thousands of ownership cases and paper work which
            > is waiting decades to be sorted.

            The shifting of borders in post-WWII created havoc for Poland. Poles lost
            countless billions of dollars of land, cities, buildings, resources when the
            Soviet Union took a large chunk of their Eastern Territories, and 'gave' Poles
            former Western German lands. Basically, Belorussian, Russians, and Ukrainians
            took over forer Polish holdings, Poles from the East were deported to the
            former German properties and took those over, in addition to mostly outsiders
            that rebuilt Warsaw and took possession of buildings there as well. You can't
            blame Poles for the appearance of Warsaw today. These are the unfortunate
            consequences of 'unfairness' and the horrible Russian and German occupations
            during the last war. Is it an excuse? Yes, and a very good one as well because
            it's a sad fact.

            Cheers,

            Eugene
            • nasza_maggie Re: Warszawa da się lubić 22.03.06, 23:55
              Hmmm... it is interesting to see how you're tellingme things I already know.

              But at the same time, respect for knowing so much about the history of this
              country, I must say.
    • usenetposts Re: Ever met anyone from Warsaw? 20.03.06, 20:48
      My son, George W, was born in Warsaw, some nearly three years ago and if the
      bawling in Bielany hospital was anything to go by there are a lot more like
      him....

      But in the main, as far as the older generation is concerned, you are right. We
      who live in Warsaw are living in a place where those who lived before us
      largely died in the Holocaust and in Palmiry or were shot on the streets in the
      uprising or who ended up homeless when the Germans destroyed their homes and
      went elsewhere if they at least survived.

      When the capital was rebuilt, people came from all over to do that, and for
      their pains they were first in line for being housed here.

      But you do get original Warsaw people. One lady politician running for office
      was foolish enough to put her "real Warszawka" snobbery on her posters, but who
      would vote for someone who is telling you they belong in your place more than
      you do? Needless to say, she finished the elections the same nobody as she
      started, just with more bad Karmi.
    • nasza_maggie I reccomend this document 20.03.06, 22:43
      to all those who are curious about exactly what this city lost during WWII.


      www.um.warszawa.pl/v_syrenka/ratusz/Raport_o_stratach_wojennych_Warszawy.pdf
    • minimus Re: Ever met anyone from Warsaw? 21.03.06, 01:07
      I see myself as a Warsawian (Warsawer?). I was brought up here, so was my
      father. My mother is not from Warsaw. My father's parents lived here before the
      war. From what they told me it certainly was a very different city then.

      But its true. Its very difficult to meet people who lived in Warsaw for say
      twenty years. Where I work, out of about 60 ppl there are maybe three who are
      Warsawians. And I am certainly not asamed of being from Warsaw. On the
      contrary. This place has a great history and I know that I am part of it. When
      ppl in Poland criticise Warsaw they often confuse it with the government.
      • portulaco Re: Ever met anyone from Warsaw? 21.03.06, 08:48
        In my country they say Lisbonners don't exist because they're people from everywhere else gathering and working in Lisbon.

        Is the same happening in the Polish capital?
    • katlia Re: Ever met anyone from Warsaw? 23.03.06, 01:24
      Me.
      My family has lived in Warsaw for about 6 generations.
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