A victory for common sense (at last)

22.03.06, 16:22
uk.news.yahoo.com/22032006/140/muslim-girl-loses-school-uniform-row.html
    • varsovian Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 22.03.06, 16:29
      I must admit I had to laugh about this one - she was happily letting herself be
      used by extremists. As her school bent over backwards to accommodate her
      wishes, she made them more and more extreme.
      Silly, sad dangerous trout.
      • nasza_maggie Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 22.03.06, 16:42
        Here we go.
        This is going to set off a more agressive approach..
        • russh Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 22.03.06, 16:50
          From which side?
          • nasza_maggie Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 22.03.06, 16:51
            both.
            Any excuse, as far as I'm concerned.
            • russh Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 22.03.06, 17:00
              If it's a tougher line against non-integration (i.e. by the British authorities
              on behalf of the British people), then I believe it's about time. For too long
              now the minority groups, especially the Muslims, have been nibbling away at the
              very fabric of the British society, against the majority interest and will.

              If it is a tougher line by the Muslims, then they know where they can go!

              • nasza_maggie Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 22.03.06, 17:09
                where?
                • russh Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 22.03.06, 17:16
                  To an Islamic country (Iranistan).
                  • nasza_maggie Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 22.03.06, 17:19
                    You mean Persia?
                  • russh Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 22.03.06, 17:59
                    Now you can educate me. Was Persia more than Iran (I remember the Shah of
                    Persia, before being the Shah of Iran)?

                    Excuse my geographical ignorance, and lack of will to google search.
                    • nasza_maggie Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 22.03.06, 23:56
                      Ha, it's not about me educating yousmile
                      I get a little confused with the Middle Eastern geography too, that's why I was
                      askingsmile
              • bartis_ervin Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 23.03.06, 08:48

                "If it's a tougher line against non-integration (...)"
                I fail to see how wearing a jilbab has to do with integration. Integration
                mostly has to do with education, speaking the language of the host country,
                employment, accomodation, health care etc.

                Probably UK has also an integration program for foreigners (especially for
                refugees) and I am sure that they do not define integration as "not wearing
                jilbab". This is simply blown out of proportion, designed for people with
                ismlamophobia.

                Every 8 seconds a child dies because of contaminated water and waterborn
                illnesses. Let's tackle that instead of discovering new problems between Muslims
                and Christians.

                Ervin

                Thebartiski.blogspot.com
                • russh Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 23.03.06, 09:02
                  Ervin, it's not a new problem, and yes, it's being blown out of proportion - by
                  the Muslim people in Europe.

                  Integration is about many things, not only about language and the other things
                  you talk about. It's about behaving in a way that is acceptable to your host
                  country.

                  We can talk as well about the death of children every 8 seconds, but again, it
                  is one of many problems facing us.
                • usenetposts Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 23.03.06, 12:50
                  bartis_ervin napisał:

                  >
                  > "If it's a tougher line against non-integration (...)"
                  > I fail to see how wearing a jilbab has to do with integration. Integration
                  > mostly has to do with education, speaking the language of the host country,
                  > employment, accomodation, health care etc.
                  >
                  > Probably UK has also an integration program for foreigners (especially for
                  > refugees) and I am sure that they do not define integration as "not wearing
                  > jilbab". This is simply blown out of proportion, designed for people with
                  > ismlamophobia.
                  >
                  > Every 8 seconds a child dies because of contaminated water and waterborn
                  > illnesses. Let's tackle that instead of discovering new problems between
                  Muslim
                  > s
                  > and Christians.
                  >
                  > Ervin
                  >
                  > Thebartiski.blogspot.com

                  At the moment we don't have waterborn illnesses in the UK, but we have the
                  opposite. We have allowed Islamic people to get their way so much in our
                  country that in the end god is even giving us their climate. This year the
                  hosepipe ban in Southern England will be extended even to parks and filling of
                  swimming pools, because of the unprecedented drought.

                  It's almost like God is saying "Want to live like Europeans? Behave like
                  Europeans. Want to behave like desert camelhopping towelheads? The climate for
                  that can be arranged too."

                  Of course, it could be coincidence, but I don't think so somehow.
              • usenetposts Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 23.03.06, 12:45
                russh napisał:

                > If it's a tougher line against non-integration (i.e. by the British
                authorities
                > on behalf of the British people), then I believe it's about time. For too long
                > now the minority groups, especially the Muslims, have been nibbling away at
                the
                > very fabric of the British society, against the majority interest and will.
                >
                > If it is a tougher line by the Muslims, then they know where they can go!
                >


                100%
    • bartis_ervin Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 23.03.06, 08:38

      "The school, where four-fifths of the students are Muslim, had argued that the
      jilbab posed a health and safety risk."

      Health risk? Let's be serious..

      Ervin

      Thebartiski.blogspot.com
      • varsovian Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 23.03.06, 12:15
        In the same way that dangly earrings are not allowed.
        • ianek70 Religion and uniform 23.03.06, 12:23
          Since we've returned to the thorny topics of religion and uniforms, can I give
          the link to that nun again?

          images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/6094.jpg
          • varsovian Re: Religion and uniform 23.03.06, 12:29
            She looks like a younger version of Mrs Thatcher!
            • ianek70 Re: Religion and uniform 23.03.06, 12:47
              varsovian napisał:

              > She looks like a younger version of Mrs Thatcher!

              Not true, she's sweet.
              Unlike this naughty one:

              www.weirdspot.com/images/upload/nun.jpg
              • ianek70 Re: Religion and uniform, link 23.03.06, 12:49
                > varsovian napisał:
                >
                > > She looks like a younger version of Mrs Thatcher!
                >
                > Not true, she's sweet.
                > Unlike this naughty one:

                www.weirdspot.com/images/uploads/nun.jpg
        • bartis_ervin Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 23.03.06, 15:15

          Just out of curiosity: is yarmulke allowed?

          Ervin

          Thebartiski.blogspot.com
          • usenetposts Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 23.03.06, 15:17
            I never saw a yarmulka cover up someone's entire face. It's almost the smallest
            head covering you can get.
            • bartis_ervin Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 24.03.06, 12:51

              The point is that it is showing your religious belief.
              If the Muslim veils are forbidden, on the same rationale the yarmulka should be
              also banned. And then, in fact, anybody wearing a cross should not enter the
              school either.

              Ervin

              Thebartiski.blogspot.com
              • usenetposts Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 24.03.06, 13:27
                bartis_ervin napisał:

                >
                > The point is that it is showing your religious belief.
                > If the Muslim veils are forbidden, on the same rationale the yarmulka should
                be
                > also banned. And then, in fact, anybody wearing a cross should not enter the
                > school either.
                >
                > Ervin

                It is not a matter of showing beliefs or not showing beliefs, as even the lack
                of any adherence to a given religious system is also a statement of belief.

                It is about moderation. Unfortunately Muslim extremists have no concept of
                moderation, so whereas one person might say "I will have a small, tasteful
                badge", these people have got to stick their females in a bag from head to toe
                the minute they go a-monthing.

                FYI, there is no Biblical requirement to use outward symbols. It says "the
                fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
                temperance" etc, and it doesn't say have a hat on your head or a necklace
                around your neck, or whatever. These are outward symbols, and you can be sure
                the more a people externalises their religion, the less internal it is.
              • ianek70 Re: A victory for common sense (at last) 24.03.06, 13:34
                bartis_ervin napisał:

                >
                > The point is that it is showing your religious belief.
                > If the Muslim veils are forbidden, on the same rationale the yarmulka should
                be
                > also banned. And then, in fact, anybody wearing a cross should not enter the
                > school either.

                I agree with the idea of neutrality - your religion is your private matter, but
                in school everyone's equal.
                The problem is that there are so many grey areas. A little symbol is OK, or one
                that isn't meant to be seen (eg a small crucifix on a chain), but not a big one.
                But the point has been made before - how do you distinguish a religious head
                covering from a cultural one or a fashionable one? And how big is a big cross?
                Should pentagrams and inverted crosses be allowed, and if so, only for pseudo-
                Satanist metal fans (fashion statement) and not for genuine worshippers of
                Beelzebub (religious statement)?
                Should Jewish boys be forced to keep their pants on in the showers after PE?

                Either there is freedom of dress, where everyone can wear what they want but
                have to understand that others will also wear what they want (so any compromise
                as to what is offensive should be voluntary, people will eventually realise
                what is acceptable for others) or you have uniforms which everyone wears.
                The school itself (in consultation with the parents) decides on the uniform,
                and it's up to the common sense of the school staff to decide how much
                variation is acceptable.
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