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Now their turn; what pisses you off about the UK

25.03.06, 13:24
We've had our turn about Poland. There are almost 200 thousand Poles that have
recently gone to the UK, mostly for work. There were plenty before that, many
of whom have settled, and many who have returned to their motherland.

What is it about the UK, and its people that pisses you off.

This can also be a real chance for us Brits to have a go as well - give it a go!
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    • nasza_maggie Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 13:26
      I generally like the UK. But I think it is the misconception of London that
      somewhat gives the UK a bad rep.
      Like Warsaw with Polandsmile

      What really annoys me, in the last few years is how aggressive London has
      become. People are so unfriendly and rude.
      I am sure there used to be less of that. Is it because the city is just too big?

      And I hate the whole 'what u lookin at?' attitude and the rude boy talk. It's
      just so.... pathetic.....
      • russh Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 13:34
        Agreed. I was brought up near to London, and my parent were from London. I
        worked in the City for many years.

        To many foreigners that I've met, London = the UK. How much further from the
        truth can you get? The real UK is in the towns and villages, and this has never
        been more so than now I feel.

        London is a mixture of business, wealth and poverty. There is everything (some
        of the most wonderful 'sights') and nothing (the place has lost the character it
        had many years ago). It's not a place to live, and certainly not representative
        of the UK. It is one of the many cities that have become 'global' cities, and
        from what I see Warsaw is, on a smaller scale, similar.
              • russh Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 15:42
                asdf401 napisał:

                > British nationalism sucks big.

                Why? It's not as bad as French nationlism. The worst are the uneducated, and
                there are many. A level of nationalism is both normal and right (in my opinion),
                and probably because of the fact that Britain was once great, we still try and
                hold on to a little of the past.

                You can't even be a REAL fan of Enlish football/soccer club unless you're
                ..English - I was told.

                They were toying with you, I fear.

                > The attitude many British have toward immigrants is disgusting, too.

                What is the British attitude? There are more immigrants in the UK than any other
                European country I believe, and there are bad and good attitudes. Much of this
                again depends on upbringing.

                > English LadieS are mostly ugly.

                As I said in other posts, some are beautiful, some are less beautiful, some are
                plain, and some are downright ugly, although they say that beauty is in the eye
                of the beholder. Tell me a country were there are not all types and sizes
                (including Poland).

                > London=Londonistan.

                As well! Big cities suck (to coin a phrase). London is no more British, although
                it does manage to contribute an incredible amount to the British coffers.

                If you think London is Londonstan, what about Leedstan, Birminghamstan &
                Nottinghamstan! Watch out though, you'll get both Dave and me going soon (about
                the 'stans).

                Funny though - you say about Londonstan on the one hand, meaning the presence of
                a high percentage of immigrants, and on the other hand condem the British
                attitude towards immigration.
                • usenetposts Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 16:17
                  russh napisał:

                  > asdf401 napisał:
                  >
                  > > British nationalism sucks big.
                  >
                  > Why? It's not as bad as French nationlism. The worst are the uneducated, and
                  > there are many. A level of nationalism is both normal and right (in my
                  opinion)
                  > ,
                  > and probably because of the fact that Britain was once great, we still try and
                  > hold on to a little of the past.
                  >
                  > You can't even be a REAL fan of Enlish football/soccer club unless you're
                  > ..English - I was told.
                  >
                  > They were toying with you, I fear.
                  >

                  It does look that way.

                  > > The attitude many British have toward immigrants is disgusting, too.
                  >
                  > What is the British attitude? There are more immigrants in the UK than any
                  othe
                  > r
                  > European country I believe, and there are bad and good attitudes. Much of this
                  > again depends on upbringing.
                  >

                  I think it's disgusting that we let them take over and run the show. That
                  certainly is disgusting.

                  > > English LadieS are mostly ugly.
                  >
                  > As I said in other posts, some are beautiful, some are less beautiful, some
                  are
                  > plain, and some are downright ugly, although they say that beauty is in the
                  eye
                  > of the beholder. Tell me a country were there are not all types and sizes
                  > (including Poland).

                  I take it this person would turn his nose up at Liz Hurley, or Helena Boneham
                  Carter?

                  >
                  > > London=Londonistan.
                  >
                  > As well! Big cities suck (to coin a phrase). London is no more British,
                  althoug
                  > h
                  > it does manage to contribute an incredible amount to the British coffers.
                  >
                  > If you think London is Londonstan, what about Leedstan, Birminghamstan &
                  > Nottinghamstan! Watch out though, you'll get both Dave and me going soon
                  (about
                  > the 'stans).
                  >

                  Poland is also known as Lechistan in Turkish. But that was just wishful
                  thinking on their part. so far, anyway.

                  > Funny though - you say about Londonstan on the one hand, meaning the presence
                  o
                  > f
                  > a high percentage of immigrants, and on the other hand condem the British
                  > attitude towards immigration.

                  I can only assume he meant it wasn't strict enough, and that much I agree with!
                  • russh Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 16:31
                    > > Funny though - you say about Londonstan on the one hand, meaning the pres
                    > ence
                    > o
                    > > f
                    > > a high percentage of immigrants, and on the other hand condem the British
                    > > attitude towards immigration.
                    >
                    > I can only assume he meant it wasn't strict enough, and that much I agree with!


                    I took it the other way, in that the immediate reaction many immigrants have in
                    the UK (depending where they are located) is that the UK is racist.

                    I agree with you (we've said the same before) that the UK has had a too-liberal
                    immigration policiy over the past 30-40 years, and is now suffering for it.

                    Higher racial tension is just one effect of the hitherto lack of credible
                    immigration and integration policies. The PC response seems to have been the
                    only integration policy, and look at how ridiculous and ineffective it is!
                    • usenetposts Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 20:12
                      russh napisał:

                      > > > Funny though - you say about Londonstan on the one hand, meaning th
                      > e pres
                      > > ence
                      > > o
                      > > > f
                      > > > a high percentage of immigrants, and on the other hand condem the B
                      > ritish
                      > > > attitude towards immigration.
                      > >
                      > > I can only assume he meant it wasn't strict enough, and that much I agree
                      > with!
                      >
                      >
                      > I took it the other way, in that the immediate reaction many immigrants have
                      in
                      > the UK (depending where they are located) is that the UK is racist.
                      >
                      > I agree with you (we've said the same before) that the UK has had a too-
                      liberal
                      > immigration policiy over the past 30-40 years, and is now suffering for it.
                      >
                      > Higher racial tension is just one effect of the hitherto lack of credible
                      > immigration and integration policies. The PC response seems to have been the
                      > only integration policy, and look at how ridiculous and ineffective it is!

                      Quite. People who want to integrate will integrate very well. I know a few
                      Germans who decided to live in the UK, and they managed to find a common
                      language even with people who in their youth hated all Germans and would have
                      blessed the very bombs that fell on Muenster and Magdeburg. That is because
                      people within Europe and a comon European heritage actually can integrate very
                      easily, even if they retain an accent. Neither do I have any massive issues
                      with a number of the non-European ones who have at least had a humble attitude.
                      But the main problem has always been with Islam. There is also a problem with
                      narcotics which has unfortunately affected the Black section of the immigrants,
                      but I do not think it is an intrinsic part of being black to take drugs, and we
                      ought to be able to sort out that matter, get rid of the yardies and integrate
                      black people without the sorts of issues that have arisen with lacks in
                      America - after all the history of our country is different. In fact I do think
                      thta in the main blacks ARE integrated, from what I can observe young people go
                      out in groups with caribbean looking people and white people together. It is
                      the Muslims that really casue the biggest problem, and what I would hope from
                      all the other immigrant factions is that they would help us get the Muslims to
                      put their house in order.

                      If there is Sikh or Hindi violence in the UK, as there has been in Slough where
                      I had my home for a while, then there is always Muslim provocation in the
                      equation somewhere. Always.
                      • russh Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 20:44
                        You've hit on another enormous problem - one that is at the root of most of the
                        other non-Islam tensions I feel - Drugs.

                        I have had an experience within my family of what hard drugs can do, and the
                        type of people involved in its distribution; it is horrific.

                        The rise in the number of gun-related crime is solely due to drugs, and I think
                        that it is probable that the problem is at least as serious as the other one,
                        the Muslims.

                        If the problem is not confronted and brought under control soon, it will really
                        be of pandemic proprotions.

                        What are your view?
                        • usenetposts Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 23:52
                          russh napisał:

                          > You've hit on another enormous problem - one that is at the root of most of
                          the
                          > other non-Islam tensions I feel - Drugs.
                          >
                          > I have had an experience within my family of what hard drugs can do, and the
                          > type of people involved in its distribution; it is horrific.
                          >
                          > The rise in the number of gun-related crime is solely due to drugs, and I
                          think
                          > that it is probable that the problem is at least as serious as the other one,
                          > the Muslims.
                          >
                          > If the problem is not confronted and brought under control soon, it will
                          really
                          > be of pandemic proprotions.
                          >
                          > What are your view?

                          I think taking both the matters in hard with very tough measures, the sort that
                          would get the civil rights people up in arms, you would in the case of Islam
                          and drugs avoid worse problems in the future which are going to happen if we
                          take a soft line with them.

                          Quite frankly I love liberty and want to share liberty and freedom of speech
                          with as many people as possible, but I have identified these two areas; drugs
                          and Islam, as the matters which will not sort them selves out any other way
                          than with considerable direct action.

                          If I could, I would basically put Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan into a single
                          country with no access to military technology, and with the oil rich areas
                          outside their scope. I would leave the mad Islamists in there to run the show
                          and simply patrol the perimeter. I would then round up all the drug addicts and
                          the pushers from the world and dump them in there - they would have access to
                          the raw material they want, they could simply get on with it.

                          I would of course allow people from those countries who had no criminal record,
                          who show up clean on blood tests and who are willing to revoke Islam to leave
                          and re-settle in the free world, taking the places of those who cause trouble
                          in our society whom I would send to Iranqistan.

                          In this way, I would tackle the drugs and the Islam problem in one offensive,
                          and I would leave Korea for the Chinese to deal with.

                          Maybe I'll write a novel in the futuristic genre to show how I envisage it. I
                          might call it "Eutropia"
                        • nasza_maggie Russ 26.03.06, 13:32
                          russh napisał:

                          > You've hit on another enormous problem - one that is at the root of most of
                          the
                          > other non-Islam tensions I feel - Drugs.
                          >
                          > I have had an experience within my family of what hard drugs can do, and the
                          > type of people involved in its distribution; it is horrific.
                          >
                          > The rise in the number of gun-related crime is solely due to drugs, and I
                          think
                          > that it is probable that the problem is at least as serious as the other one,
                          > the Muslims.


                          I really have to disagree with you on this one. I think it is mostly due to the
                          large Yardie culture that has been growing in the UK for some 10 years or
                          longer (remember the recent shooting of a Police woman?).

                          I think you are confusing being a muslim with being of Arabic descent..when it
                          comes to drugs. And that is a whole different kettle of fish.


                          >
                          > If the problem is not confronted and brought under control soon, it will
                          really
                          > be of pandemic proprotions.
                          >
                          > What are your view?
                          • russh Re: Russ 26.03.06, 19:44
                            nasza_maggie napisała:

                            > russh napisał:
                            >
                            > > You've hit on another enormous problem - one that is at the root of most
                            > of
                            > the
                            > > other non-Islam tensions I feel - Drugs.
                            > >
                            > > I have had an experience within my family of what hard drugs can do, and
                            > the
                            > > type of people involved in its distribution; it is horrific.
                            > >
                            > > The rise in the number of gun-related crime is solely due to drugs, and I
                            >
                            > think
                            > > that it is probable that the problem is at least as serious as the other
                            > one,
                            > > the Muslims.
                            >
                            >
                            > I really have to disagree with you on this one. I think it is mostly due to the
                            >
                            > large Yardie culture that has been growing in the UK for some 10 years or
                            > longer (remember the recent shooting of a Police woman?).
                            >
                            > I think you are confusing being a muslim with being of Arabic descent..when it
                            > comes to drugs. And that is a whole different kettle of fish.

                            I cannot agree with you, but maybe you didn't understand me (from what you have
                            written).

                            Firstly, I have no doubt that the increase in firearms offences is down to drugs
                            - you have no idea what the inner city (and not only) drug-dealers life is, and
                            how they enforce their debt collection. The main drug-dealing community is the
                            Afro-Caribean one.

                            Secondly, I made no corrolation between Muslims and firearms or drugs. I just
                            said that they are the biggest problems facing British society (and not only) today.
                            • nasza_maggie Re: Russ 26.03.06, 20:20
                              russh napisał:

                              > nasza_maggie napisała:
                              >
                              > > russh napisał:
                              > >
                              > > > You've hit on another enormous problem - one that is at the root of
                              > most
                              > > of
                              > > the
                              > > > other non-Islam tensions I feel - Drugs.
                              > > >
                              > > > I have had an experience within my family of what hard drugs can do
                              > , and
                              > > the
                              > > > type of people involved in its distribution; it is horrific.
                              > > >
                              > > > The rise in the number of gun-related crime is solely due to drugs,
                              > and I
                              > >
                              > > think
                              > > > that it is probable that the problem is at least as serious as the
                              > other
                              > > one,
                              > > > the Muslims.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > I really have to disagree with you on this one. I think it is mostly due
                              > to the
                              > >
                              > > large Yardie culture that has been growing in the UK for some 10 years or
                              > > longer (remember the recent shooting of a Police woman?).
                              > >
                              > > I think you are confusing being a muslim with being of Arabic descent..wh
                              > en it
                              > > comes to drugs. And that is a whole different kettle of fish.
                              >
                              > I cannot agree with you, but maybe you didn't understand me (from what you
                              have
                              > written).
                              >
                              > Firstly, I have no doubt that the increase in firearms offences is down to
                              drug
                              > s
                              > - you have no idea what the inner city (and not only) drug-dealers life is,
                              and
                              > how they enforce their debt collection. The main drug-dealing community is the
                              > Afro-Caribean one.

                              Hmmmm please do not go so far as to asume what I have an idea aboutwink

                              Afro Carribean = Yardie Culture stems from that.
                              >
                              > Secondly, I made no corrolation between Muslims and firearms or drugs. I just
                              > said that they are the biggest problems facing British society (and not only)
                              t
                              > oday.


                              In a way, maybe I did. But I think not, as putting the problem gun crime and
                              drug crime in the same category as someones religion seems far fetched to me.
                              • russh Re: Russ 26.03.06, 20:30
                                I'm not putting the problems into any catagory apart from the 'very serious,
                                could be destructive' catagory.

                                If you think I'm wrong, and are able to tell me why, believe me I would be
                                nothing apart from relieved.
                                • nasza_maggie Re: Russ 26.03.06, 20:37
                                  russh napisał:

                                  > I'm not putting the problems into any catagory apart from the 'very serious,
                                  > could be destructive' catagory.

                                  smile)))))))))))))))))))


                                  >
                                  > If you think I'm wrong, and are able to tell me why, believe me I would be
                                  > nothing apart from relieved.

                                  I just think a persons faith is not in the category of 'crimes'. That's all.
                                  • russh Re: Russ 26.03.06, 20:44
                                    It is when people of your faith are destroying 'your' country, and you do not
                                    condemn or do something about it, or even worse, support it because your faith
                                    tells you that it is right (the destruction of the country).

                                    Read the posts in the 'Afghan to be condemned to death because of conversion'
                                    (or similar) thread.
                                  • usenetposts Re: Russ 26.03.06, 20:52
                                    nasza_maggie napisała:

                                    > russh napisał:
                                    >
                                    > > I'm not putting the problems into any catagory apart from the 'very seri
                                    > ous,
                                    > > could be destructive' catagory.
                                    >
                                    > smile)))))))))))))))))))
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > If you think I'm wrong, and are able to tell me why, believe me I would b
                                    > e
                                    > > nothing apart from relieved.
                                    >
                                    > I just think a persons faith is not in the category of 'crimes'. That's all.
                                    >
                                    >

                                    Usually it isn't.

                                    But if you have faith in a code that says "kill infidels", does the fact that
                                    it stems from faith make killing infidels not a crime?

                                    Spreading a "faith" in the need to kill others is a criminla act, tantamount to
                                    conspiracy to kill and terrorise infidels.

                                    If there is a version of Islam without holy war in it, which says that jihad is
                                    no part of Islam, then I have yet to see it.

                                    The most they do is try to define jihad in a diplomatic way, but they do it
                                    only in order to lull us into a false sense of security.

                                    Effectively "Islam" is to "faith" what "virus" is to "cell".
                                  • marcus_anglikiem Re: Russ 26.03.06, 21:02
                                    nasza_maggie napisała:

                                    > I just think a persons faith is not in the category of 'crimes'. That's all.

                                    It depends how you (or they) define faith. If they declare it their faith that
                                    they kill innocent people then that IS a crime. And if they do kill innocent
                                    people then Europe will rise up closely together and show we cannot be
                                    intimidated in our own contintent.
                                        • nasza_maggie Re: Russ 27.03.06, 00:45
                                          I REALLY REALLY think that faith is just so much broader to interpretation than
                                          crime. Really.

                                          I hate generalising. I hate the fact that many of us may think that Muslims or
                                          any Arabs infact, have it implanted in their head to 'kill infidels' because
                                          the Khoran tells them too. I just cannot see the logic in that.

                                          I am sure we could find many things in the Bible open to interpretation also.

                                          Please do not think I am trying to be PC or something. But I know muslems and
                                          jews and christians and goodness in 9/10 times it is so often down to the
                                          individual. Let's not put eachother in categories eh....
                                          • russh Re: Russ 27.03.06, 06:58
                                            Maggie, I want to say and feel the same. Unfortunately events have let us down
                                            in relation to the Muslims. I side completely with Dave on this one.

                                            Just answer one question. Why is it that the 'good' Muslims have not done
                                            something effective to cleanse their religion, and help us get rid of the twin
                                            problems of Muslim fanatasism and poor integration.
            • russh Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 15:28
              Seperate taps (sorry to correct you, but we all have seperate pipes).

              It's quite something for the Brits too! As soon as they find out that there is
              an alternative, they get mixer taps!

              Having lived in Italy for years, one thing that I really appreciated was the
              bidet. When I went back to the UK to live, where they are very rare, and bought
              a new house, the first thing I did was to put in a bidet in the bathroom. I
              couldn't imagine how I washed my little bits (stress the little) beforehand.
              • usenetposts Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 15:40
                russh napisał:

                > Seperate taps (sorry to correct you, but we all have seperate pipes).
                >
                > It's quite something for the Brits too! As soon as they find out that there is
                > an alternative, they get mixer taps!

                I wanted mixer taps for my house, but the builder simply refused to include
                them in the spec. he thought I was like one of those lah-di-dah foreigners.

                I also had a laugh at the Channel Tunnel toilets in the Folkestone terminal,
                voted "Public Toilet of the Year 1998", and of course, no mixers.

                I can't imagine what high accolades that fine micuration receiving institution
                would have garnered had it had mixers as well. Maybe "European Union Top
                Shithouse of the Century" even.

                I remember being sick there once, too, but I can't remember why.
    • marcus_anglikiem Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 21:57
      i asked my fiancée (she's from Vilnius and has been in the uk since jul 2004);
      she said(taps have already been mentioned) narrow streets and chronic obesity
      (i guess they'll see the error of their ways when they get stuck between the
      garden fences on either side of the road) (though knowing the English
      pragmatism they'd probably just bulldoze peoples' gardens and wait till
      the same problem happens again against the house walls)...
      i can add the overcrowding on the roads (they call the M6 motorway the world's
      biggest car park).
      • russh Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 25.03.06, 22:35
        > (i guess they'll see the error of their ways when they get stuck between the
        > garden fences on either side of the road) (though knowing the English
        > pragmatism they'd probably just bulldoze peoples' gardens and wait till
        > the same problem happens again against the house walls)...

        Love the post, but I have never thought it (the obesity) was so bad. Probably
        being part of it for so long had made me blind to it.

        What about the clothes sense?
            • marcus_anglikiem Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 26.03.06, 10:36
              another problem i'm afraid: in general, there are good and bad people. in
              England, bad people are allowed to be particularly bad and in some ways even
              encouraged. Oh, and it works the other way around too - good people are
              discouraged from being good; an example comes to mind - yesterday i read
              that a two-year-old girl walked out of kindergarten and was walking alongthe
              streets; a man saw this infant alone on the streets and thought to help, but
              then decided against approaching the girl on the basis that he thought
              someone would think he was trying to abduct her. so he did nothing and drove
              on... the girl was found dead in someone's garden pond.
              • russh Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 26.03.06, 22:10
                marcus_anglikiem napisał:

                > another problem i'm afraid: in general, there are good and bad people. in
                > England, bad people are allowed to be particularly bad and in some ways even
                > encouraged. Oh, and it works the other way around too - good people are
                > discouraged from being good; an example comes to mind - yesterday i read
                > that a two-year-old girl walked out of kindergarten and was walking alongthe
                > streets; a man saw this infant alone on the streets and thought to help, but
                > then decided against approaching the girl on the basis that he thought
                > someone would think he was trying to abduct her. so he did nothing and drove
                > on... the girl was found dead in someone's garden pond.

                This is a terrible story, but I wonder if the problem is a uniquely British
                problem. I think this thing started in the US, as so many things do, and has
                crept into every western society.

                It's sick that we are so afraid of being accused of something, or being caught
                up in whatever the trouble is (although this is more understandable), that we
                stand aside and let terrible events occur.
      • usenetposts Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 26.03.06, 14:25
        mmaupa napisała:

        > Separate taps for hot&cold water, and the ugly dark houses consisting solely
        of
        > stairs (with carpets all over the place). Euch.

        I have to admit I have very readily adopted the Eastern habit of having wooden
        floors with fully portable rugs on them and no wallpaper on the walls, only
        painted plaster with works of art hung on them - and no reproductions or prints
        either. Only originals.

        I quite like staying in places that have an English "feel" - flowery wallpaper,
        quaint ornaments all over the place, wall to wall carpets you can never get
        clean and which are exacerbated by the fact that they don't take their shoes
        off when they come in, usually a bunch of pets with their fleas in that carpet
        as well, and the funny double taps. Oh, and blankets on the bed instead of a
        duvet and pillows which are rather too small. I like staying in places like
        that as they remind me of my childhood home, although I have no wish to emulate
        them in my own home now.

        Another thing is the toilet chain - most foreigners staying at my M&D's place
        need a briefing on how to use it. The Germans who stayed were particularly
        disappointed that there was no shelf for their ordure to sit in and be examined
        by the proud owner before being consigned to the sewer, but then you don't get
        it that often in Poland either.
        • russh Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 26.03.06, 19:50
          > I have to admit I have very readily adopted the Eastern habit of having wooden
          > floors with fully portable rugs on them and no wallpaper on the walls, only
          > painted plaster with works of art hung on them - and no reproductions or prints
          >
          > either. Only originals.

          Was this an 'Eastern' habit, or a mediterranean habit? Got to agree its cleaner
          and healthier, plus its easier to maintain. I think though that the UK is
          changing it's style - you only have to go to the DIY sheds now to see.

          > Another thing is the toilet chain - most foreigners staying at my M&D's place
          > need a briefing on how to use it.

          Do they still exist?
          • usenetposts Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 26.03.06, 14:41
            nasza_maggie napisała:

            > what IS english cuisine, then?

            English cuisine is a lot of things, but since we are writing at the moment
            around about Sunday lunchtime, I will give the example of the Sunday Roast.

            This would centre on a large single piece of well seasoned and roast beef, pork
            or lamb (each of which have their own sauces associated with them for beef it
            might be horseradich sauce, for pork it might be apples or it may be pork with
            juniper berries, for lamb we are usually talking about mint sauce and/or mint
            jelly) and the associated gravy. This is then associated with potatoes of some
            sort, but most typically roast potatoes, although other forms such as mash or
            chips may be used, but English chips are not the same as these thin fries made
            from powders that you get out of a packet.

            On top of the meat and the potatoes, there should be at least two forms of
            cooked vegetables. These would be selected from cabbage, brussels sprouts,
            carrots, peas, sweetcorn, or any of the less common forms of vegetable, like
            artichokes or asparagus or whatever but boiled, not "surowki". We do not mix
            surowki with cooked vegetables. Neither would this be adorned by any fruit
            (save pork and apple sauce) or pickles in the main. These are reserved for
            other things. The other thing is, this should all be on one plate. There are no
            side plates in traditional English cuisine. If they appear on the English
            table, then that is because the chefs are preparing a meal intentionally in a
            foreign style.

            My parents believe in having one green vegetable and one "coloured vegetable",
            like the carrots or the sweetcorn, or swede, wherever possible, in order to add
            colour.

            Even boiled cabbage should be pleasant when done by a good English chef. It
            should retain some crispness and not be overboiled, it should be sweet and
            seasoned maybe with a little nutmeg or other spices. It will absorb also the
            gravy and should be a very pleasant thing to eat, when properly prepared.
            • dzejti Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 26.03.06, 18:18
              usenetposts napisał:

              > nasza_maggie napisała:
              >
              > > what IS english cuisine, then?

              oh yes, please go on. i would like to know ten more english dishes as well.

              > English cuisine is a lot of things, but since we are writing at the moment
              > around about Sunday lunchtime, I will give the example of the Sunday Roast.

              This is the best example of this food categorizing which i mentioned in my post
              yesterday. It is a cultural thing but for me that's so ridiculous to make strict
              rules for a meal. It destroys the beauty of cooking which is about creating,
              improvising, mixing, blending, experimenting and not repeating mechanichally
              every seven days the same meal. So why not try chicken with it? why not eating
              it on saturday (when i worked in a restaurant in the UK we hardly ever sold any
              sunday roasts except on sundays)? why not invent a new sauce or use the lamb
              sauce with the pork? Why not give some flavour to the veggies and not just serve
              them plain?

              • usenetposts Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 26.03.06, 19:18
                dzejti napisał:

                > usenetposts napisał:
                >
                > > nasza_maggie napisała:
                > >
                > > > what IS english cuisine, then?
                >
                > oh yes, please go on. i would like to know ten more english dishes as well.
                >
                > > English cuisine is a lot of things, but since we are writing at the momen
                > t
                > > around about Sunday lunchtime, I will give the example of the Sunday Roas
                > t.
                >
                > This is the best example of this food categorizing which i mentioned in my
                post
                > yesterday. It is a cultural thing but for me that's so ridiculous to make
                stric
                > t
                > rules for a meal. It destroys the beauty of cooking which is about creating,
                > improvising, mixing, blending, experimenting and not repeating mechanichally
                > every seven days the same meal. So why not try chicken with it? why not
                eating
                > it on saturday (when i worked in a restaurant in the UK we hardly ever sold
                any
                > sunday roasts except on sundays)? why not invent a new sauce or use the lamb
                > sauce with the pork? Why not give some flavour to the veggies and not just
                serv
                > e
                > them plain?
                >

                You can of course do all these things, but then you don't have a traditional
                English meal.

                You cannot experiment with adding lines or changing the metre and still have a
                sonnet. you may still have a very acceptable poem, but you cannot then call it
                a sonnet. Art is about doing things in an individual way, but certain art forms
                require keeping it within certain rules of the game, so as to compare like with
                like.

                As regards at least ten more dishes, I could talk about such things as

                _Entrees_
                Prawn Cocktail
                English Soups

                _Main Course_
                English Fish and Chips
                Shephards Pie
                Toad in the Hole
                Bangers and Mash
                Bubble and Squeak
                English types of soup
                Lancashire Hot Pot
                Steak and Kidney Pie
                Mince Beef and Dumplings
                Ribs in barbecue sauce

                With regards to dessert and the cheese course, there are such delights as
                Stilton (the king of English cheeses, best served with port)
                Numerous English cheeses and other British cheeses exist and you will find a
                good list of them here:
                en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_cheeses
                .

                Traditional English puddings, on the other hand, include such delights as apple
                crumble, flapjacks, treacle tart, bakewell tarts - there is probably a much
                longer list of them than of British cheeses although nobody seems to have
                compiled one on wikipedia as yet. Some you will see here:
                en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pudding
                If you want to know the older traditions of British Cooking, then

                www.gutenberg.org/etext/10136 here is the free e-book of Mrs Beeton's
                chef d'ouevre for chefs, the "Book of Household Management" which was completed
                in the 1860s. I don't know if anyone has considered making a website around
                that PD text, with their own illustrations, etc, but thta would be a noce idea,
                if anyone has a mind for it.
                • russh Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 26.03.06, 20:00
                  > www.gutenberg.org/etext/10136 here is the free e-book of Mrs Beeton's

                  > chef d'ouevre for chefs, the "Book of Household Management" which was completed
                  >
                  > in the 1860s. I don't know if anyone has considered making a website around
                  > that PD text, with their own illustrations, etc, but thta would be a noce idea,

                  I have a copy, and it is used quite regularly - a super cook book.

                  Tell you what, I'll post some recipes from it over the next few days (including
                  some of the ones you have suggested), and I guarantee that if people try them
                  (and are able to cook well), they will change their minds re English cuisine.
    • ianek70 Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 26.03.06, 19:41
      Nobody's mentioned the bread yet!
      The separate hot and cold taps, of course. There is (was?) actually a good
      reason for this, but I can't remember what it is.
      The lack of good cakes - all these plasticky-tasting things from supermarkets
      and bakery chains.
      Horrible, big, characterless, trendy pubs that drive better pubs out of
      business with their inexpensive mediocrity.
      Hard drugs.
      Regional prejudices and stereotypes - having accent A can make you sound sexy
      in town B, or get your head kicked in in town C.

      Maybe specific to the West of Scotland:
      Religious bigotry which has now outlived both religions by two generations.
      Water pipes which burst as soon as the temperature drops below freezing,
      bringing the country to a complete standstill around January 4th every year.
      Also the fact that the whole country is plunged into chaos once more about
      three days later when it snows.
      The culture of heavy drinking and mindless violence.
      The weird attitude that anything you can't see out of a high window must be
      really, really far away, and you'd never go there except on holiday or for a
      football match.
                • ianek70 Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 14.04.06, 20:28
                  przekurwa napisała:

                  > Angileki to najohydniejsze stwory pełzajace po ziemi, sami zas Anglicy to
                  > idioci ( tam dosc szybko koncza edukacje )

                  Wcześniej zaczynają, bo w jakim normalnym kraju 19-letni dorośli chodzą do
                  szkoły?
                  W Szkocji szkołę kończymy nawet wcześniej, niż Anglicy, a u nas odsetek ludzi z
                  wyższym wykształceniem jest dwukrotnie więcej, niż w Polsce. Ale czy w ogóle
                  istnieje jakiś związek pomiędzy edukacją a inteligencją?
                  • usenetposts Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 14.04.06, 21:23
                    ianek70 napisał:

                    > przekurwa napisała:
                    >
                    > > Angileki to najohydniejsze stwory pełzajace po ziemi, sami zas Anglicy to
                    >
                    > > idioci ( tam dosc szybko koncza edukacje )
                    >
                    > Wcześniej zaczynają, bo w jakim normalnym kraju 19-letni dorośli chodzą do
                    > szkoły?
                    > W Szkocji szkołę kończymy nawet wcześniej, niż Anglicy, a u nas odsetek ludzi
                    z
                    >
                    > wyższym wykształceniem jest dwukrotnie więcej, niż w Polsce. Ale czy w ogóle
                    > istnieje jakiś związek pomiędzy edukacją a inteligencją?

                    There was a time when you could get to university in this country well enough
                    if your parents were in the party. Till today in this country it is acceptable
                    policy to cheat at exams. The system in the UK means that those with a degree
                    of emotional intelligence, delaying rewards, are more likely to go for the full
                    measure of education that their brains are worth investing to. The system in
                    Poland is such that the cwaniacy are the ones likely to come out of tertiary
                    education with the top results.

                    That's why people employing graduates ought (as I do) to run their own exams
                    for applicants to the Firm, as the results from University are in practice
                    nothing to go by.
                    • ianek70 Re: Now their turn; what pisses you off about the 15.04.06, 14:09
                      usenetposts napisał:

                      > There was a time when you could get to university in this country well enough
                      > if your parents were in the party. Till today in this country it is
                      acceptable
                      > policy to cheat at exams.

                      The only reason people here cheat at exams is (like a lot of things in Poland)
                      that everybody else does.
                      I once wasted a few hours helping to mark mock matura English exams, analysing
                      all the mistakes according to the marking scheme. I got bored when I realised
                      that even the thickest, most brainless children never got less than 50%, even
                      if they clearly hadn't understood the questions. It turns out the pass mark is
                      only 30%, so cheating is completely pointless because to fail you would have to
                      write "arse" as the answer to every question, and spell it wrong just in case.
                      Then they get to university and show off that they've got 12 gigabytes of
                      answers printed on 5 square millimetres of paper hidden in a secret compartment
                      inside their pencil.
                      When I was a student, taxpayers gave us money to spend on beer, drugs and
                      records, and we paid them back by spending a few days in the library before the
                      exams. The JP2 Generation obviously sees things differently.
      • usenetposts Re: price of a hair cut 14.04.06, 23:29
        ms.jones napisała:

        > £45, for what I ask you?

        Indeed. I go to the place called Hest in Warsaw which is supposed to be the
        most prestigious hairdresser in Poland (which is a bit like feeding pigs
        cherries with my bonce but at least I try) and all I pay is 55 PLN plus tip,
        which is a fraction of what I would pay to the equivalent place in the UK.
        • ms.jones Re: price of a hair cut 14.04.06, 23:44
          Rub it in, why don't you, grrr
          I used to have a great bloke come round my place and do a brilliant hair cut
          for £20, but he's working for Harvey Nichols now and styling models for fashion
          photo shots and is too busy for home visits. So I went to an ordinary salon in
          the High Street and 'a senior stylist' (they are no longer hairdresses) aged
          about 17 did an ordinary hair cut, disguised it with some unremarkable brush
          work and charged 45 quid. For what??
          A new series of Grumpy Old Men starts on BBC next week, I'll enjoy it.
        • kylie1 Re: price of a hair cut 15.04.06, 04:38
          >and all I pay is 55 PLN plus tip,

          We pay roughly the same here ... but only for a little trim job, no wash, no
          styling, no frills. Some of those young girls are bad news and they should have
          their scissors taken away from them permanently. I had been through a number of
          those hair disasters before. A nicer haircut comes with a heavier price tag but
          at least you can be pretty sure you will come out looking human.
        • minimus Re: price of a hair cut 15.04.06, 13:10
          yes, Hest. I used to go there as well until I discovered that there are
          actually better and cheaper hair dressers.

          Anyway, do they still give you a daughnut and a cup of coffee for 'free'? This
          was something that kept me there for a while. LOL

          BTW. Have good Easter everyone.
          • usenetposts Re: price of a hair cut 15.04.06, 13:24
            I've tried these "cheaper and better" hairdressers, and that's why I went back
            to Hest. Almost with a bit cut off of my ear.

            Which is bruddy painful, actually.

            And the doughnut you get is not just any doughnut, but one from the fine
            patisserie on Piekna street.

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