who's responsibility?

13.04.06, 15:58
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4906040.stm
Polish radio 'sorry for offence'

If certain citizens lost property during a period of occupation
by foreign powers, is it the responsibility of the current Polish government?
Discuss.
    • usenetposts Re: who's responsibility? 13.04.06, 16:42
      There's such a thing as receiving stolen goods, and the current owners of
      property that was stolen by Nazis are probably in that position, in a moral
      sense, even though they paid good money for it.

      I think there is a lot to be said for the principle "caveat emptor" - let the
      buyer beware. If you buy something being unconcerned with whatever unpleasant
      history might attached to it, you might well be fair game for a claim.

      If the government still holds property that belonged to Jews, then they might
      need to be compensating them for it.

      The German government gives sizeable monies to compensate the victims of Nazi
      ravages, the Russian government, which is the legal successor to the Soviet
      Union, appears unobliged to do any such thing, but then again the biggest
      victims of Communism were the Russians themsleves and we will all be jolly
      grateful if they can just do us the favour of becoming a country broadly
      similar to ours.
      • ianek70 What happened to my post? 13.04.06, 18:43
        I wrote a reply to the original question and it mysteriously disappeared...
        • kylie1 Re: What happened to my post? 13.04.06, 19:39
          > I wrote a reply to the original question and it mysteriously disappeared...

          Probably stolen already!

        • usenetposts Re: What happened to my post? 14.04.06, 12:34
          ianek70 napisał:

          > I wrote a reply to the original question and it mysteriously disappeared...

          Not guilty.
    • ejmarkow Re: who's responsibility? 13.04.06, 19:42
      marcus_anglikiem napisał:

      >
      > If certain citizens lost property during a period of occupation
      > by foreign powers, is it the responsibility of the current Polish government?
      > Discuss.

      It's quite a complex and questionable issue Marcus. There are varying points of
      views on this one.

      Regarding claims made by US citizens for asset recovery in Poland, here is one
      paragraph from the Polish Consulate in New York City which provides an
      interesting statement:

      "-Past Assets Recovery-
      One should be aware, that the Polish government has settled all property asset
      claims brought against it by U.S. nationals. Under the 1960 “Settlement of
      Claims of United States Nationals” treaty, the Polish government compensated
      claimants for the nationalization or other taking of private property and
      businesses by Poland. The last claim brought under the treaty was settled in
      1965. For further information you may write to the Foreign Claim Settlement
      Commission, the agency in charge of processing such claims."

      There is much more. I suggest you click on the following link and read the
      entire statement at:

      www.polishconsulateny.org/index.php?p=55
      For other foreign nationals, I'm not sure what the law is in those respective
      countries. If Poland and the USA did indeed sign such an agreement, then it
      must be legally binding.

      I know that many Polish citizens (all religions) lost enormous amounts of
      assets in the former Eastern territories or "Kresy", and I'm wondering, can
      they make claims for properties lost there as well? I did hear though, that the
      Polish goverment which was communist after the war, signed a similar sort of
      statement voiding all claims in the those territories by Polish citizens. This
      is where it becomes complex. Did the Russian dominated Soviet government of
      Poland, during that time, act in the best interests of Polish citizens and a
      democratic Poland? Probably not. Also, the very cause of WWII in attacking
      Poland was jointly caused by Germany and Russia. So, theoretically, Poland
      should have never lost those eastern territories in the first place. That was
      also due to unjust politics by Churchhill, Stalin, and Roosevelt at Yalta.
      Then, there are many Germans that would like their former properties back from
      Western and Northern Poland. I do know that the Polish government has given
      back most or many communal properties (temples of worship, cemeteries, etc)
      belonging to all religious affiliations. Another hinderance is the extreme
      shifting of borders after WWII. Germany was penalized for its eastern and
      northern lands and Poland got most of those (Russia received the Kalingrad
      area), but Poland lost much more land to the East (Russia, Belorussia,
      Lithuania, and Ukraine). What seems unfair is that the current Polish
      government must pay the price for the injustice and property claims caused by
      WWII and shifting borders, without Polish citizens also having the right to
      legally reclaim their assets which were all lost from the former Eastern
      territories? Not only private property was lost, but entire cities and the
      territory itself. It's a mess. Many questions...any suggestions?

      Eugene

      • marcus_anglikiem Re: who's responsibility? 13.04.06, 20:53
        you're right Eugene, it's complex. But if i was living in Poland and a Polish
        tax-payer, then i'd be absolutely furious ! at having to pay through my taxes
        for something that was completely not my fault in any way.
        • varsovian Re: who's responsibility? 14.04.06, 12:21
          My wife's uncle recently had to sort out his landowning affairs ... and
          discovered the land still officially belonged to the Tsar.
          The Romanovs have the biggest claim.
          Mind you, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon famously said: "Property is theft"
          • ejmarkow Re: who's responsibility? 15.04.06, 00:35
            varsovian napisał:

            > My wife's uncle recently had to sort out his landowning affairs ... and
            > discovered the land still officially belonged to the Tsar.
            > The Romanovs have the biggest claim.
            > Mind you, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon famously said: "Property is theft"

            Are you sure it didn't belong to either King Jan Sobieski or Kazimierz Wielki?
            smile

            Eugene
    • ianek70 Re: who's responsibility? 15.04.06, 14:40
      marcus_anglikiem napisał:

      > If certain citizens lost property during a period of occupation
      > by foreign powers, is it the responsibility of the current Polish government?

      There are two issues here.
      1. Poverty and hunger among lawyers have been eradicated. Sadly, there is a
      price for this - they are forced to make a living from accidents, divorces,
      historical injustices (the more complicated, the better paid) and all the other
      things that nobody with any pride or dignity would touch.
      2. Radio Maryja is, well, you know...
      • kylie1 Re: who's responsibility? 15.04.06, 19:58
        > 2. Radio Maryja is, well, you know...

        Yes, I think we do...

        smile
        • ianek70 Re: who's responsibility? 19.04.06, 10:39
          kylie1 napisała:

          > > 2. Radio Maryja is, well, you know...
          >
          > Yes, I think we do...

          Of course we do, but when I wrote the exact same post but mentioning what Radio
          Maryja is, the post vanished...
          • kylie1 Re: who's responsibility? 19.04.06, 20:06
            welcome aboard, ianek; one of my priest jokes is gone too.
            grrrrrr
            These guys can't even take a simple joke for crying outloud!
            Whatever happened to democracy in Poland?...

            smile

            • kylie1 Re: who's responsibility? 19.04.06, 20:13
              NEVER MIND JANEK...my joke reappeared!!!
              There is God after all !!!

              heheheh

              what did you say about the beloved RM?
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