What Does Land Ownership Consist of in Poland?

21.04.06, 11:55
Here's a nice legal question to grapple with. Approximately 6 weeks ago, a
Warsaw based geology group set up a small trailer on my neighbor's property
down the hill from me. They claimed to be sending electronic sonar waves
beneath the ground to see what was 20 kilometers below the surface. They
mentioned the possibility of oil and gas reserves in this area. It does make
sense since the Krosno, Bobrka, Jasło regions were and are known for such
deposits. The Carpathian mountains and foothills historically contain oil and
gas. It must be remembered that Ignacy Łukasiewicz, born in Galicja and based
in the Carpathian foothills, was the founder of the Polish oil industry and
one of the pioneers of oil industry in the world. Among his achievements were
the discovery of the refining of kerosene from crude oil (1852), kerosene
lamp (1853), the founding of the first oil well (1854) and the building of
the first oil refinery (1856).

Yesterday, I was repairing the unpaved road that leads to my house, filling
in holes made from the melting winter snow with gravel and earth. I noticed
two young surveyors on my neighbors property, measuring boundries and placing
markers running from my forest up to the end of his land. I approached them
and kindly asked in broken Polish what they were up to. They replied they
were marking areas from a recent geological survey, and that oil or gas may
possibly exist in the area, but more research must be conducted as to how
much may actually exist. I asked them the following question, "If oil or gas
does indeed exist on any private property, then who actually owns the
deposits below the surface?" They replied, "Anything below the surface is
owned by 'Skarb Panstwa' (the state or government body of Poland)". They also
mentioned that the only fees collected by the owner of such land would
include lease fees for the land, and nothing for the actual deposits
contained below the surface. Does anyone know if this is true? In Poland, is
the owner of the land, also the owner of anything below the surface, or does
the 'state or government of Poland' actually own it? I think in the USA, the
owner of the land would be able to collect large royalties for any mineral or
energy deposits from a firm wishing to mine or refine on that location
because the person that holds title to the property is also the owner of
anything below the surface, though I'm not 100% sure. How is it is Poland?
What do you think or know on this subject? Thanks.

Eugene

    • varsovian Re: What Does Land Ownership Consist of in Poland 21.04.06, 13:34
      The landowner has no rights to what lies below his land. They were quite right.
      • ejmarkow Re: What Does Land Ownership Consist of in Poland 21.04.06, 16:16
        varsovian napisał:

        > The landowner has no rights to what lies below his land. They were quite
        > right.

        Thanks, very interesting. So, if I were walking in my forest one day, and
        noticed a very sharp spurt of hot steam coming out of an opening, and later
        realized it is geothermal activity encompassing enough energy to heat an entire
        city, the Polish state or government can excercise the right to legally acquire
        that heat source for their own use and profit even without the express oral or
        written consent and permission of the land owner?

        Eugene
        Siemiechów, Poland

        • firemouse Re: What Does Land Ownership Consist of in Poland 21.04.06, 17:03
          > varsovian napisał:
          >
          > > The landowner has no rights to what lies below his land. They were quite
          > > right.
          >

          It's more complicated than just this.

          Minerals which are not part of the land are owned by the state. However, they
          are part of the land and owned by the owner if they lay beneath the ownership
          boundary "limited by the socioeconomic designation of the land".

          State may then use what is under your land only if such a use does not "infringe
          your justified interests". This is all not very clear, but actually
          interpretation depends on each case. In your example, if you would notice a
          geothermal source and would adapt it for your needs, and later on decide to sell
          the energy, you can do it all right and state may not expropriate you. If
          however the state would conduct a research and finds a large underground thermal
          lake which extends beyond your land, and later decides to explore it what would
          require use of your land, they can use it but need to comensate you for the
          ground taken for the exploration. If they would explore it from outside your
          land, they can do it without any fees for you. But then you can set up your own
          heat factory.

          Everything in between is grey area.
          • ianek70 Re: What Does Land Ownership Consist of in Poland 22.04.06, 10:20
            firemouse napisał:

            > > varsovian napisał:
            > >
            > > > The landowner has no rights to what lies below his land. They were
            > quite
            > > > right.
            > >
            >
            > It's more complicated than just this.
            >
            > Minerals which are not part of the land are owned by the state. However, they
            > are part of the land and owned by the owner if they lay beneath the ownership
            > boundary "limited by the socioeconomic designation of the land".
            >
            > State may then use what is under your land only if such a use does
            not "infring
            > e
            > your justified interests". This is all not very clear, but actually
            > interpretation depends on each case.

            Even this could change - not long ago Giertych went to the mountains to try to
            get skiers to vote for him.
            I can't remember the exact details, but he basically claimed that Poles should
            be able to ski where and when they want (except maybe on Sundays), and that ski-
            lifts are nothing to do with the people who own the land under them because the
            snow belongs to the Nation. Or some such thing.
            Obviously the locals just threw goat's cheese at him and told him to f*** off,
            but now that the country is governed by these kind of populists, rules about
            what the state can steal from taxpayers may change.
            • ejmarkow Re: What Does Land Ownership Consist of in Poland 22.04.06, 12:27
              ianek70 napisał:

              Good point Ianiek70, I remember that incident as well. I support the argument
              which states that skiers or the ski area should obtain permission from the
              private landowners, and even compensate them if necessary (share the wealth),
              if they wish to utilize that land for such recreation. Private property should
              be respected as per the laws of private ownership. Snow lies above the land. Is
              there another law for that?

              Eugene


              > firemouse napisał:
              >
              > > > varsovian napisał:
              > > >
              > > > > The landowner has no rights to what lies below his land. They
              > were
              > > quite
              > > > > right.
              > > >
              > >
              > > It's more complicated than just this.
              > >
              > > Minerals which are not part of the land are owned by the state. However,
              > they
              > > are part of the land and owned by the owner if they lay beneath the owner
              > ship
              > > boundary "limited by the socioeconomic designation of the land".
              > >
              > > State may then use what is under your land only if such a use does
              > not "infring
              > > e
              > > your justified interests". This is all not very clear, but actually
              > > interpretation depends on each case.
              >
              > Even this could change - not long ago Giertych went to the mountains to try
              to
              > get skiers to vote for him.
              > I can't remember the exact details, but he basically claimed that Poles
              should
              > be able to ski where and when they want (except maybe on Sundays), and that
              ski
              > -
              > lifts are nothing to do with the people who own the land under them because
              the
              >
              > snow belongs to the Nation. Or some such thing.
              > Obviously the locals just threw goat's cheese at him and told him to f***
              off,
              > but now that the country is governed by these kind of populists, rules about
              > what the state can steal from taxpayers may change.
        • usenetposts Re: What Does Land Ownership Consist of in Poland 22.04.06, 01:03
          If your land does cover part of an aquifer you need to treat that as a two-
          edged sword. It is more likely to be - subject of course to certification - a
          potable source rather than a heat source, and could really help your brewery
          plans more than you may have imagined, but on the other hand you would have to
          be careful as there is now stiff EU-wide legislation that could leave you with
          a massive bill to pay if anything were right now seeping through your land that
          could pollute a potable aquifer.

          So be careful what you wish for...
          • ejmarkow Re: What Does Land Ownership Consist of in Poland 22.04.06, 10:23
            usenetposts napisał:

            Agreed, of course anything is possible. A potable source such as spring water
            contained in a well can become contaminated from many occurring factors, even a
            strong rain storm. Let's just hold that unfortunate situation a constant for a
            moment and be a bit more optimistic. Now, suppose oil, gas, or geothermal
            activity were discovered on anyone's land (not necessarily mine). For the first
            two deposits in particular, what rights would the land owner have?

            Eugene


            > If your land does cover part of an aquifer you need to treat that as a two-
            > edged sword. It is more likely to be - subject of course to certification - a
            > potable source rather than a heat source, and could really help your brewery
            > plans more than you may have imagined, but on the other hand you would have
            to
            > be careful as there is now stiff EU-wide legislation that could leave you
            with
            > a massive bill to pay if anything were right now seeping through your land
            that
            >
            > could pollute a potable aquifer.
            >
            > So be careful what you wish for...
            • firemouse Re: What Does Land Ownership Consist of in Poland 22.04.06, 15:01
              ejmarkow napisał:

              > Now, suppose oil, gas, or geothermal
              > activity were discovered on anyone's land (not necessarily mine). For the first
              >
              > two deposits in particular, what rights would the land owner have?
              >
              > Eugene

              The same as for third one, in general.
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