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Beware Austrias and Belgiums, here comes Poland!

12.01.07, 12:18
I believe that Poland in terms of its true potential, both economic,
political and human, if not blocked by Nazism/Communism/Foreign
Occupation....is destined for the Europe's top 5, and far from its current
ranking in EU, which is the direct consequence of Soviet dominance.

I am almost certain that by 2025 Poland is going to rank somewhere in the
EU's top 3-5. In terms of potential, Poland can soon improve dramatically its
status in EU, and change the way the World looks on Europe. In footbal terms
this is how I see Polands true potential as compaired with other Euro
countriessmile Let's see the scoring board smile

Win for Poland!

Holland- Poland 1-2
Belgium- Poland 2-3
Ireland-Poland 3-4
Austria-Poland 1-2
Luxembourg-Poland 1-4
Grecce- Poland 1-2
Bulgaria- Poland 0-2
Romania- Poland 0-2
Finland-Poland 1-3
Czech Rep-Poland 1-3
Hungary- Poland 2-3
Denmark-Poland 2-3

Tie;
Italy-Poland 1-1
Sweden- Poland 2-2
Spain- Poland 2-2


Not a win just jet!

Germany-Poland 3-2
UK-Poland 4-3
France-Poland 4-3


What are your bets?










Obserwuj wątek
      • waldek1610 Re: Beware Austrias and Belgiums, here comes Pola 13.01.07, 07:29
        didn't you notice how people who don't like what one says, try to change the
        subject, or dissmiss it as unrevelant.

        Still, when subject is as controvercial as this one, because when Poland winns,
        many other countries have to loose...so no wonder people who are going to loose
        opose the idea very vehemently.
      • waldek1610 Re: Beware Austrias and Belgiums, here comes Pola 13.01.07, 06:57
        minimus napisał:

        > > UK-Poland 4-3
        >
        > This is a good one.
        > big_grin

        Well it's hard to beat the former empire that in some way helped shape how the
        political world looks today. Its mainly through its former collonies such as
        USA, Canada, Australia, India, Pakistan, that UK maintains its global role.
        Never the less Poland can match Britain in some areas, and even beat it in
        others.

        Politically and linguistically Britain will remain world power for some time.
      • waldek1610 Re: Look out Austrias and Belgiums, heeere's Pole 13.01.07, 07:16
        usenetposts napisał:

        > I believe we can match Spain, but remember Italy has a great store of banked
        > wealth and 1.5 times the population.
        >
        > They also have a good academic tradition and a quality of life aspect that
        > some people consider higher than that available here.


        You are quite correct, I was hasitating if not to put Italy in a winners group
        together with UK, Germany and France, but I reconcidered since politically
        Italy is not as strong as one might thing and certainlly not as strong as
        other EU top 3...

        Still in terms of quallity of living itally is a...dollce vita!...yes I have to
        agree Polands pine and oaks can't match Italy's cypruses, palm trees and
        olives...and Wawel is not in the same category as rome Colliseum, not even
        Cracow's market square can not outshine St. Marco square in Vennice but...

        Italians and French share with Poland same roman catholic, southern in touch,
        more vibrent culture, as opposed to Germany, UK and other protestant north west
        EU countries. Well you have to look at it in the historical perspective, if you
        went back to year 1600 in Europe Poland was one of the major players back then..
        I'm confident we can do it again smile
        • chris-joe Re: Look out Austrias and Belgiums, heeere's Pole 14.01.07, 16:46
          "Well you have to look at it in the historical perspective, if you
          went back to year 1600 in Europe Poland was one of the major players back then..
          I'm confident we can do it again smile"

          -Waldek, reread your history. And this time around skip Sienkiewicz altogether.
          Poland has NEVER been a "major player", contrary to the beliefs of some
          home-grown Polish mythomaniacs.
          Poland, in her heyday even, at the most managed to be a LOCAL power and never
          was even close to the 1st league. Culturally and politically she was always on
          the peripheries -not unlike Sweden, even when the Swedish empire stretched all
          the way to Cracow.
          The West's center of gravity has always been located near what used to be the
          Roman Empire or the realm of Charlemagne.
          The Poland's best travelled to Italy, France, or Bohemia for education, even
          when the Cracow University was having a good run.
          The big games have been played between Rome, Paris and some German political
          centers, and NOT near Cracow or Warsaw.
          Polish aristocrats flocked to Louvres and Versailles, IF they had the privilege
          to be admitted, when Henry of Valois was fleeing Cracow once real McCoy became
          available.
          Poland's king, when Poland reached her zenith, was given not some major European
          blueblood for a wife, but a Duchess of Bari. A who?
          But hey, Louis XV was married to Leszczynska! When they needed a royal wife
          "who didn't matter" that is so to avoid political complications...
          But then again, Queen Mary spent her days in her chapel mostly promptly outshone
          by Madame Pompadour and the former prostitute Madame du Barry. There went
          Poland's chance to be a player smile

          But back to Sweden for a sec: she emerged finally from her marginal obscurity
          not by some absurd claims to grandour based on national mythology, but by
          painstakingly building her wealth (and quite recently so, for not that long ago
          Swedes travelled to Denmark "na saksy"), her exemplary democracy, by producing
          Abba, Volvo and IKEA, and by excellent PR in general rather than by histerically
          throwing her weight around. Something to think about?
          • minimus Re: Look out Austrias and Belgiums, heeere's Pole 14.01.07, 17:11
            It depends what you mean by "major player". IMHO in military terms Poland was a
            major European power. In cultural terms, it was not. This was actually Poland's
            quest for centuries - playing the catch up game with the west (trying to pull
            away from east at the same time). I think Poland was also a major economic
            power, with the grain transported from the Ukrainian plains thru Gdansk, all
            over Europe.
            Finally, I think that Poland was on the sidelines also liturally. It was simply
            difficult to get to. Developing a decent road system was always a problem wink
            Agree completely with your last paragraph.
            • chris-joe Re: Look out Austrias and Belgiums, heeere's Pole 14.01.07, 22:37
              So what if the Flemish ate bread made of Ukrainian grain? Were they even aware
              of it? Today half of France wears Taiwanese underwear. Does it make Taiwan a
              European player?
              In "military terms" Poland may have been even a nuclear superpower, however all
              that might (if there was indeed such) was being spent on staving off the
              Tartars, the Cossacks, the Turks and the Muscovy at the kresy of the spread thin
              Commonwealth. As I said: LOCAL power, yes; continental? far from it!
              Yeah, yeah, the Vienna adventure. I know. When Sobieski helped out the
              Austrians and the Germans on the eve of complete collapse of the Rzeczpospolita.
              Too little too late, I say, to be making any claims to a power status.

              The almost complete absence of Polish references in the European discourse de
              l'epoque, be it on history, historiosophy, literature or arts speaks volumes.

              "Difficult to get to"? Precisely. That's what made (makes?) Poland peripheral.
              After all, the lack of good road network never stopped the traffic flow from
              Cracow/Warsaw to France or Italy. And back -when the cash ran out smile
              • minimus Re: Look out Austrias and Belgiums, heeere's Pole 14.01.07, 23:24
                > So what if the Flemish ate bread made of Ukrainian grain? Were they even aware
                > of it? Today half of France wears Taiwanese underwear. Does it make Taiwan a
                > European player?

                Of course it doesn't matter if they new where the grain came for. All the
                needed to know was how much they needed to pay for it. Why would you bring up
                Taiwan to this 'European' discussion?? Taiwan is a major local power (economic
                and military, less so political). Don't think Tawan bothers with making
                underwear nowadays. That was a long time ago.

                > In "military terms" Poland may have been even a nuclear superpower, however
                >all that might (if there was indeed such) was being spent on staving off the
                > Tartars, the Cossacks, the Turks and the Muscovy at the kresy of the spread
                >thin Commonwealth. As I said: LOCAL power, yes; continental? far from it!
                > Yeah, yeah, the Vienna adventure. I know. When Sobieski helped out the
                > Austrians and the Germans on the eve of complete collapse of the
                Rzeczpospolita
                > .
                > Too little too late, I say, to be making any claims to a power status.

                I think you just need to define what you mean by local power. Poland was a
                local power as much as France was (talking military here).

                > The almost complete absence of Polish references in the European discourse de
                > l'epoque, be it on history, historiosophy, literature or arts speaks volumes.

                Thats what I said in my previous post. Poland culturaly was not a major power.
                Our culture was European and we had some contribution there.

                > "Difficult to get to"? Precisely. That's what made (makes?) Poland peripheral
                > After all, the lack of good road network never stopped the traffic flow from
                > Cracow/Warsaw to France or Italy. And back -when the cash ran out smile

                Don't know what your getting at here.
                • chris-joe Re: Look out Austrias and Belgiums, heeere's Pole 16.01.07, 11:42
                  "Of course it doesn't matter if they new where the grain came for. All the
                  needed to know was how much they needed to pay for it."
                  -the way I see it, it does matter if the Flemish new. If they didn't, Poland
                  did not have a place in their minds, was not present in the European psyche, was
                  an entity akin to "Taiwan"- distant, abstract, a place where nobody really went,
                  nobody knew much about, very few cared. Because nobody truly needed to.

                  And that is what I meant by mentioning the conspicous absence of Polish
                  references in the European discourse of the day. Poles did participate in those
                  intelectual exchanges to be sure, and quite succesfully so (Laski, Modrzewski,
                  Copernicus), however references TO Poland are harder to be found, much harder
                  than references to Aragon, Saxony, Bohemia, Sicily or Anglia. And that at the
                  time when the Empire was the biggest, the wealthiest and the strongest in its
                  history.
                  And that tells me Poland was at the best a local power on the outskirts of
                  Europe. Poised with her back to the continent, looking East, absent from the
                  goingons that were to constitute and define the European psyche.

                  I dare to say- that is why it was relatively easy to erase Poland from the map
                  of European consciousness. She was hardly there to start with.
              • waldek1610 why Protestants despise proud catolic Poland? 15.01.07, 08:13
                chris-joe napisał:

                > The almost complete absence of Polish references in the European discourse de
                > l'epoque, be it on history, historiosophy, literature or arts speaks volumes.

                This is solely due to the Germanic and Anglo-Saxon dislike of Poland, and its
                catholic culture. Do you expect that Germans and other protestant countries
                going to praise Poland and give it credit when its due, while they despise it
                at the same time?


                • chris-joe Re: why Protestants despise proud catolic Poland? 18.01.07, 22:27
                  -"Swedish what???"

                  Forgive me for applying the term "empire" to Sweden and NOT to Poland, although
                  I could have. In case of Poland I opted for the usually employed term
                  "Commonwealth", however both countries used to be at some time "empires" and
                  English language historians often use the term when referring to either.

                  The term is also often used in reference to Bulgaria (of 9th and 10th century
                  AD), Zululand under Shaka and so on.


                  -"This is solely due to the Germanic and Anglo-Saxon dislike of Poland, and its
                  catholic culture. Do you expect that Germans and other protestant countries
                  going to praise Poland and give it credit when its due, while they despise it
                  at the same time?"

                  But there are no more references to Poland in the sources of predominantly
                  Catholic France, the Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Portugal...
                  Instead of indulging in the typically Polish megalomania maybe indeed you should
                  accept the fact that Poland operated on the outskirts of Europe, and in the
                  cultural, economic, political and diplomatic terms she simply didn't matter in
                  the heart of the continent as much as you so painfully wish she had.

                  But neiher did Sweden, Hungary, Serbia for example.

                  What do you think?
                  • waldek1610 Re: why Protestants despise proud catolic Poland? 19.01.07, 06:04
                    chris-joe napisał:

                    waldek1610 napisał:

                    > >-"This is solely due to the Germanic and Anglo-Saxon dislike of Poland, and
                    > > its catholic culture. Do you expect that Germans and other protestant
                    > > countries going to praise Poland and give it credit when its due, while
                    > > they despise it at the same time?"

                    > But there are no more references to Poland in the sources of predominantly
                    > Catholic France, the Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Portugal...

                    You're wrong about France, since I have heard form several sources that France
                    is the only major west European country that teaches in it's schools a large
                    part of Poland's history, it's due to the similar French and Polish
                    revolutionary and pro-freedom spirit...

                    Why would you expect Germany to praise Poland? For undoeing everything Germany
                    does, and counteracting Germany's growht? smile

                    > Instead of indulging in the typically Polish megalomania maybe indeed you
                    > should accept the fact that Poland operated on the outskirts of Europe,

                    yes, and by "outskirts" they mean outside of the racial divide, that Western
                    Europeans concidered western & civilized....Were they Poles another Germanic
                    tribe we would be fully accepted like Austrians and Luxembourgians, but as
                    Slavs we are despised, it's simple as that.


                    > and in the cultural, economic, political and diplomatic terms she simply
                    > didn't matter in the heart of the continent as much as you so painfully wish
                    > she had.

                    > What do you think?

                    I think that Protestant Germanic, Anglo-Saxon and Nordic nation wouldn't want
                    to notice Poland even if it hit it on the face with owerwealming streanth...


          • waldek1610 vanity of Germans and Ango-Saxons knows no limits 15.01.07, 08:06
            chris-joe napisał:


            > -Waldek, reread your history. And this time around skip Sienkiewicz
            > altogether.
            > Poland has NEVER been a "major player", contrary to the beliefs of some
            > home-grown Polish mythomaniacs.

            If you read english and other anglo-saxon books on the subject you migh believe
            that Poland never existed, or if it did only did so when it was overrun by big
            headed Germans....




            > Poland, in her heyday even, at the most managed to be a LOCAL power and never
            > was even close to the 1st league. Culturally and politically she was always
            > on the peripheries -not unlike Sweden, even when the Swedish empire stretched
            > allthe way to Cracow.


            Swedish what??? Oh I see what is the problem, with you... when Poland streaches
            from Baltic to Black sea, and from Oder to Smolensk, then is when the lights go
            out, but when any anglo- saxona, germanic or dordic nation makes the smolest
            gain then the lights go up again!

            God, the vanity of anglo-saxons and germanic people knows no limits...


    • russh Re: Beware Austrias and Belgiums, here comes Pola 12.01.07, 22:52
      'I am almost certain that by 2025 Poland is going to rank somewhere in the
      EU's top 3-5. In terms of potential'

      Potential is one thing. Realising it is another.

      Poland is the 6th (I think) largest country in population terms, and I see no
      reason why it cannot reach the 6th position, but it will only realise it's
      potential if it has a government that will create an environment that will allow
      wealth creation, and that it certainly not the one it has now.
      • waldek1610 Re: Beware Austrias and Belgiums, here comes Pola 13.01.07, 07:24
        russh napisał:

        > 'I am almost certain that by 2025 Poland is going to rank somewhere in the
        > EU's top 3-5. In terms of potential'

        > Potential is one thing. Realising it is another.
        >
        > Poland is the 6th (I think) largest country in population terms, and I see no
        > reason why it cannot reach the 6th position, but it will only realise it's
        > potential if it has a government that will create an environment that will
        > allow wealth creation, and that it certainly not the one it has now.

        Polish governement doesn't come from nowhere, and I'm certain that it was not
        elected by aliens....Polish governement is the reflection of todays Poland.
        Sure there's a strong opposition, but isn't there one in USA as well?

        Since I mentioned USA, it has also a rightist, conservative governement
        and ....it doesn't stop US from being an economic super power...


        • kylie1 Re: Beware Austrias and Belgiums, here comes Pola 13.01.07, 08:05
          > Since I mentioned USA, it has also a rightist, conservative governement
          > and ....it doesn't stop US from being an economic super power...

          Not any more, Waldek. USA keeps losing its superpower status with the help of
          their idiot president and all his paranoid foreign policies. The Afghan and
          Iraqi wars put a huge damper on the American economy. So far this airhead sunk
          between one and three thrillion dollars into a useless war. Even if they were to
          withdraw now, there is still the cost of looking after the injuries, post war
          traumas, disability payments, family compensation settlements etc, etc - all
          this will run another 35 billion dollars in the next few years.

          Not only have they lost face but their superpower status has already come to a
          sad end. Waldek, are you watching the news at all?

          • waldek1610 Re: Beware Austrias and Belgiums, here comes Pola 13.01.07, 09:20
            kylie1 napisała:

            > Not any more, Waldek. USA keeps losing its superpower status
            > Not only have they lost face but their superpower status has already come to a
            > sad end. Waldek, are you watching the news at all?


            Who did USA lost its superpower status to...? Perheaps China, Russia, India,
            EU? Look at the statistics and not the hot air that is created by media. I
            guess USA was dying for at least 20 years now...according to media, and somehow
            not only its not dead yet, its doing quite well, and growing.

            Besides, the champion can't fall untill another rises. Those countries that I
            have mentioned before are nothing more then a regional powers.

            • usenetposts Re: Beware Austrias and Belgiums, here comes Pola 13.01.07, 12:49
              It is early days to talk about the US not being a superpower, but if we compare
              the dominance of the US today and 10 years ago, you see the following
              differences

              1. A startlingly weaker dollar than 10 years ago versus the EUR - then ECU
              still of course, and an apparently incurable balance of payments deficit.

              2. The EU has in the meantime exceeded the population of the US and also in
              combined terms its economy, and has also taken measures, not all of them
              visible yet, to become a more homogenous whole, whereas the US has become more
              internally divided, involving a number of cultural, religious, ethnic and
              economic faultlines.

              3. The US was under the impression that it could handle any conflict with the
              Islamic world with relative ease. Now it has become clear that it demands
              levels of sacrifice their voters don't have the stomach for.

              4. 10 years ago people were starting to foresee what China would do, but they
              weren't sure they would achieve it. Now we know they have achieved it and are
              going to achieve even more.

              5. India has increased to becoming the second nation with over a billion
              people, and also influences the world economy in a way that impacts on America.
              For the time being it is a friend of America, and likely to stay that way, but
              a friend with increasing demands for its own niche in the world economy.

              6. The number of nuclear countries has increased and not decreased, and those
              that there are are less and not more in alliance with the United States.

              7. America has started lagging behind in a number of academic areas also - stem
              cell research is more advanced in Europe and China, and the EU has put in place
              frameworks which enable the research of its institutes to be co-ordinated in a
              way which earlier they were in the US

              8. Many people have started to have enough of being told what to do by the US,
              and there is less good will among ordinary people even in nations allied to
              them.

              9. The major scandals of Worldcom and Enron, and the ensuing over-reaction,
              have sent company after company retiring from Wall Street and seeking listings
              on overseas exchanges in order to avoid the cretinism of SOX 404.


              Against that we have 1 point in America's favour:

              10. More people use English than 10 years ago, and are increasingly likely to
              use English to inform or entertain themselves, whether on the net or other
              media.

              1 out of 10. If in 10 years time we could look at these same aspects and find
              that they were going the other way, we could say the tide was turning, and it
              might do - it probably will to an extent. But as it is the hegemopny of America
              today vis a vis 10 years ago is much less certain.
              • waldek1610 Re: Beware Austrias and Belgiums, here comes Pola 13.01.07, 13:19
                usenetposts napisał:


                > 2. The EU has in the meantime exceeded the population of the US and also in
                > combined terms its economy, and has also taken measures, not all of them
                > visible yet, to become a more homogenous whole, whereas the US has become
                > more internally divided, involving a number of cultural, religious, ethnic
                > and economic faultlines.

                Really? I wonder how much average German or Spaniard cares for their fellow
                Poles, and if they are able at all to communicate between each other?..... They
                can't come to the agreement even if they communicate in engilish...


                > 3. The US was under the impression that it could handle any conflict with the
                > Islamic world with relative ease. Now it has become clear that it demands
                > levels of sacrifice their voters don't have the stomach for.

                Aren't Brits commited in Iraq as well? smile Remember Tonny Blair? He was one of
                the bigger supporters of war in Iraq.

                > 4. 10 years ago people were starting to foresee what China would do, but they
                > weren't sure they would achieve it. Now we know they have achieved it and are
                > going to achieve even more.

                China will never reach US level of development, its sole existence and much os
                success is due to the trade with noone else but USA...



                > 5. India has increased to becoming the second nation with over a billion
                > people, and also influences the world economy in a way that impacts on
                America.
                > For the time being it is a friend of America, and likely to stay that way,
                > but a friend with increasing demands for its own niche in the world economy.


                I think it is fair to say that America impacts other contries, that on one
                country can impact US..smile If you lived in USA for some time you would quickly
                understand that for Americans there is USA and then the rest of the World...



                > 6. The number of nuclear countries has increased and not decreased, and those
                > that there are are less and not more in alliance with the United States.

                That is every nations problem not just the USA. Besides do you consider USA to
                be some kind of Worlds Policeman?


                > 7. America has started lagging behind in a number of academic areas also -
                > stem cell research is more advanced in Europe and China, and the EU has put
                > in place frameworks which enable the research of its institutes to be co-
                > ordinated in a way which earlier they were in the US

                I think EU, and escecially countries such as UK, France, Itally and Spain
                should worry more about integrating its minorities (Arabic one) within the main
                stream, rather them worrying about making new ...articicial people in the
                labs smile

                But in UK Muslims continue to feel discrimitanted, and they act on it, setting
                bombs and attaking its own compatriots...is that normal in your opinion?
                In USA on the other hand Muslim community is much more integrated, and is doing
                quite well.

                > 8. Many people have started to have enough of being told what to do by the
                > US, and there is less good will among ordinary people even in nations allied
                > to them.

                Really? smile For American people, it's attitude deosn't seem to be such a big
                problem. Besides did you British care much when you were colonizing 1/4 of the
                world? Hmm? smile


                • usenetposts Re: Beware Austrias and Belgiums, here comes Pola 13.01.07, 14:20
                  waldek1610 napisał:

                  > usenetposts napisał:
                  >
                  >
                  > > 2. The EU has in the meantime exceeded the population of the US and also
                  > in
                  > > combined terms its economy, and has also taken measures, not all of them
                  > > visible yet, to become a more homogenous whole, whereas the US has become
                  >
                  > > more internally divided, involving a number of cultural, religious, ethni
                  > c
                  > > and economic faultlines.
                  >
                  > Really? I wonder how much average German or Spaniard cares for their fellow
                  > Poles, and if they are able at all to communicate between each other?.....
                  They
                  >
                  > can't come to the agreement even if they communicate in engilish...
                  >

                  More and more can though. I am not saying we are there yet, I am just comparing
                  today to 10 years ago. Many more Poles and Spaniards can communicate via
                  English now than 10 years ago. You do not need idiots who cannot manage to
                  learn any foreign language at all to speak to each other - the less they say,
                  the better.


                  >
                  > > 3. The US was under the impression that it could handle any conflict with
                  > the
                  > > Islamic world with relative ease. Now it has become clear that it demands
                  >
                  > > levels of sacrifice their voters don't have the stomach for.
                  >
                  > Aren't Brits commited in Iraq as well? smile Remember Tonny Blair? He was one of
                  > the bigger supporters of war in Iraq.
                  >

                  Yes, but with the US I include the US and its allies.

                  > > 4. 10 years ago people were starting to foresee what China would do, but
                  > they
                  > > weren't sure they would achieve it. Now we know they have achieved it and
                  > are
                  > > going to achieve even more.
                  >
                  > China will never reach US level of development, its sole existence and much
                  os
                  > success is due to the trade with noone else but USA...
                  >
                  >

                  That is in fact not the case. You need to get up to speed with who is now
                  dominating trade in Africa and South America.

                  America buys Chinese products because China credits them to do so, and so the
                  US is actually indebted to China.

                  >
                  > > 5. India has increased to becoming the second nation with over a billion
                  > > people, and also influences the world economy in a way that impacts on
                  > America.
                  > > For the time being it is a friend of America, and likely to stay that way
                  > ,
                  > > but a friend with increasing demands for its own niche in the world econo
                  > my.
                  >
                  >
                  > I think it is fair to say that America impacts other contries, that on one
                  > country can impact US..smile If you lived in USA for some time you would quickly
                  > understand that for Americans there is USA and then the rest of the World...
                  >

                  The thing is, though, that the rest of the world is increasingly in the
                  majority.

                  >
                  >
                  > > 6. The number of nuclear countries has increased and not decreased, and t
                  > hose
                  > > that there are are less and not more in alliance with the United States.
                  >
                  > That is every nations problem not just the USA. Besides do you consider USA
                  to
                  > be some kind of Worlds Policeman?
                  >

                  One man's policeman is another man's private security guard.

                  >
                  > > 7. America has started lagging behind in a number of academic areas also
                  > -
                  > > stem cell research is more advanced in Europe and China, and the EU has
                  > put
                  > > in place frameworks which enable the research of its institutes to be co
                  > -
                  > > ordinated in a way which earlier they were in the US
                  >
                  > I think EU, and escecially countries such as UK, France, Itally and Spain
                  > should worry more about integrating its minorities (Arabic one) within the
                  main
                  >
                  > stream, rather them worrying about making new ...articicial people in the
                  > labs smile
                  >
                  > But in UK Muslims continue to feel discrimitanted, and they act on it,
                  setting
                  > bombs and attaking its own compatriots...is that normal in your opinion?
                  > In USA on the other hand Muslim community is much more integrated, and is
                  doing
                  >
                  > quite well.
                  >

                  Because you have kept a heavy hand on them. If the Muslim antagonism were
                  justified, then other groups other than them would be seeting light to cars
                  also. You do not see other immigrant communities doing this though. However, in
                  the US there are riots based solely on race, and the US is still struggling to
                  come to terms with its past, in which it built its wealth in slavery and
                  genocide.

                  > > 8. Many people have started to have enough of being told what to do by th
                  > e
                  > > US, and there is less good will among ordinary people even in nations all
                  > ied
                  > > to them.
                  >
                  > Really? smile For American people, it's attitude deosn't seem to be such a big
                  > problem. Besides did you British care much when you were colonizing 1/4 of
                  the
                  > world? Hmm? smile

                  We only colonized for a while to give those places a chance. Since we left,
                  things have got worse in a lot of them, and those where that is not the case
                  are usually happy to give credit where credit is due for what the British
                  Empire ever did for them.
                  • waldek1610 honour to be collonised by British Empire? :) 15.01.07, 08:37
                    usenetposts napisał:

                    > More and more can though. I am not saying we are there yet, I am just
                    > comparing today to 10 years ago. Many more Poles and Spaniards can
                    > communicate via English now than 10 years ago. You do not need idiots who
                    > cannot manage to learn any foreign language at all to speak to each other -
                    > the less they say, the better.


                    Well, you have at least learned a foreign language, so I give you credit smile But
                    Englishmen who look downu upon those who dont speak english, are somoewhat
                    hipotritical....

                    > That is in fact not the case. You need to get up to speed with who is now
                    > dominating trade in Africa and South America.
                    > America buys Chinese products because China credits them to do so, and so the
                    > US is actually indebted to China.

                    As if Africa and South America mattered much on a global market....come on
                    those are very uncompetetive not very lucritive markets so chinesse take
                    advantage of that...


                    > > > 6. The number of nuclear countries has increased and not decreased,
                    > > > and those that there are are less and not more in alliance with the
                    > > > United States.

                    > > That is every nations problem not just the USA. Besides do you consider
                    > > USA to be some kind of Worlds Policeman?

                    > One man's policeman is another man's private security guard.


                    Well, UK is the Israel's and other middle east coutnries security guard, so
                    should you feel ashamed of it?



                    > Because you have kept a heavy hand on them. If the Muslim antagonism were
                    > justified, then other groups other than them would be seeting light to cars
                    > also. You do not see other immigrant communities doing this though. However,
                    > in the US there are riots based solely on race, and the US is still
                    > struggling to come to terms with its past, in which it built its wealth in
                    > slavery and genocide.


                    if you replace word "US" with "UK" or "British Empire" the above statements are
                    going to be as valid and correct smile
                    Davie, please don't be hipocritical, you the English dare to preach others
                    about emancipation and historical justice???

                    > We only colonized for a while to give those places a chance. Since we left,
                    > things have got worse in a lot of them, and those where that is not the case
                    > are usually happy to give credit where credit is due for what the British
                    > Empire ever did for them.


                    Give me a break, I guess you Brits raped, ploundered, stole and exploited south
                    East Asia, Africa, Caribien and American Collonies because local tribes have
                    begged you to be abussed by you? This is typical of some low English and
                    American tourist who visit Poland and East Europe and like to think that they
                    come there because Polish and Latvian ladies crave English and American
                    penis....

                    Get a live Davie...

                    • usenetposts Re: honour to be collonised by British Empire? 15.01.07, 16:26
                      waldek1610 napisał:

                      > usenetposts napisał:
                      >
                      > > More and more can though. I am not saying we are there yet, I am just
                      > > comparing today to 10 years ago. Many more Poles and Spaniards can
                      > > communicate via English now than 10 years ago. You do not need idiots who
                      >
                      > > cannot manage to learn any foreign language at all to speak to each other
                      > -
                      > > the less they say, the better.
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, you have at least learned a foreign language, so I give you credit smile

                      Why thank you. In fact I speak rather more than one foreign language, and I
                      know many English people and others for whom English is their first language,
                      such as Americans, Canadians and Scotsmen who also speak a number of languages.
                      I haven't met that many Poles who have bothered to learn many languages further
                      down the list of world languages than Polish is

                      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
                      namely as you will see position 25, but I have met a lot of English native
                      speakers who have bothered to learn languages further down the list than their
                      own third place (or first place if you include 2nd language speakers)

                      But
                      >
                      > Englishmen who look downu upon those who dont speak english, are somoewhat
                      > hipotritical....

                      Not at all, since we are the lingua franca, it is simply a reaction to fact,
                      but still if you notice, I said "not learn any foreign language at all".

                      >
                      > > That is in fact not the case. You need to get up to speed with who is now
                      >
                      > > dominating trade in Africa and South America.
                      > > America buys Chinese products because China credits them to do so, and so
                      > the
                      > > US is actually indebted to China.
                      >
                      > As if Africa and South America mattered much on a global market....come on
                      > those are very uncompetetive not very lucritive markets so chinesse take
                      > advantage of that...

                      Aha, so the Americans don't win at trade in just about any part of the world
                      between the tropics of Capricorn and Cancer because they don't want to atke
                      advantage of the poor. Now I get it.


                      > > One man's policeman is another man's private security guard.
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, UK is the Israel's and other middle east coutnries security guard, so
                      > should you feel ashamed of it?

                      I feel ashamed we didn't do more for Israel, but pleased thatwe did more than
                      most.

                      > > Because you have kept a heavy hand on them. If the Muslim antagonism were
                      >
                      > > justified, then other groups other than them would be seeting light to ca
                      > rs
                      > > also. You do not see other immigrant communities doing this though. Howev
                      > er,
                      > > in the US there are riots based solely on race, and the US is still
                      > > struggling to come to terms with its past, in which it built its wealth i
                      > n
                      > > slavery and genocide.
                      >
                      >
                      > if you replace word "US" with "UK" or "British Empire" the above statements
                      are
                      >
                      > going to be as valid and correct smile

                      No, we don't have the same uneasy relationship with black people that the
                      whites in the US have. In fact, in many cases we don't even bother to
                      distinguish whether someone is black or white. I only realised Tina Turner was
                      black when Terry Wogan asked her if she was.

                      > Davie, please don't be hipocritical, you the English dare to preach others
                      > about emancipation and historical justice???

                      Of course our emancipation and historical justice is in advance of most other
                      places. The Americans who canted their high-falutin' moral cant of freedom and
                      equality where only interested in not paying for the benefits of an ordered
                      society, and went to escape taxation, and dumped the tea in the harbour. But
                      when it came to exploiting injuns and seizing their land, and then taxing
                      everyone else, they were only too happy to do it.

                      > > We only colonized for a while to give those places a chance. Since we lef
                      > t,
                      > > things have got worse in a lot of them, and those where that is not the c
                      > ase
                      > > are usually happy to give credit where credit is due for what the British
                      >
                      > > Empire ever did for them.
                      >
                      >
                      > Give me a break, I guess you Brits raped, ploundered, stole and exploited
                      south
                      >
                      > East Asia, Africa, Caribien and American Collonies because local tribes have
                      > begged you to be abussed by you? This is typical of some low English and
                      > American tourist who visit Poland and East Europe and like to think that they
                      > come there because Polish and Latvian ladies crave English and American
                      > penis....
                      >
                      > Get a live Davie...

                      They get penises from Polish men, Waldo. Unfortunately what they don't get off
                      Polish men is orgasms, because Polish men think that foreplay is like five a
                      side soccer without the fifth man, because the fifth man failed his lustracja.

                      I also think it's sweet you telling me to get real when you think America
                      doesn't trade that much with Africa just out of feelings of fair play.
                    • marcus_anglikiem Re: honour to be collonised by British Empire? 15.01.07, 20:19
                      without wishing to interrupt this discussion, or bring it off topic, i might
                      point out that Poland is doing fairly well these days in terms of scientific
                      research. for example, the BluRay disc that is set to become the world's new
                      entertainment standard format: invented by Poles in Poland... and if anyone
                      wants to say, yeah right, where's your source, then - my source is the bbc,
                      which may sometimes be biased, but doesn't lie very often.

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