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      Kiepski rok piłkarzy, czyli Naród niechciany

    IP: *.lsanca1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net 30.12.03, 12:32
    I read these articles from Los Angeles. I wish they were in
    Polish - golkiperow? It is very sad to see this Polish version
    of Spanglish. Perhaps this lack of self confidence in language
    is reflected in the lack on confidence on the soccer field. I
    hope for a better tomorrow - like the gate against Italy. Narod
    chciany ale taki jezyk nie chciany.
      • Gość: Mariusz Re: Kiepski rok piłkarzy, czyli Naród niechciany IP: *.pkobp.pl 30.12.03, 13:40
        o co chodzi w tej tabelce (kraje bez pilkarzy w polu????)
        • Gość: mariusz Re: Kiepski rok piłkarzy, czyli Naród niechciany IP: *.pkobp.pl 30.12.03, 13:42
          uups, domyslilem sie
      • Gość: wojciech Re: Kiepski rok piłkarzy, czyli Naród niechciany IP: *.wat.edu.pl 30.12.03, 16:04
        Święte słowa. Pamiętam jak pierwszy raz usłyszałem z ust
        Szaranowicza "korner" a potem "golkiper" to znielubiłem go
        doszczętnie... Powoli dochodzę do wniosku, że jedynym rozsądnym
        komentatorem/dziennikarzem sportowym jest Tym w swoim skeczu ze
        słuchawkami. Hm... wydaje mi się, że dziennikarze sportowi to
        tacy skrajnie niespełnieni literaci, co tam, po prostu
        beztalencia. Oj nie powinni się oni brać za słowotwórstwo...
        Czasami śmiesznie jest, ale obawiam się że te dwa słówka już się
        utrwaliły.
      • Gość: m04 Re: Kiepski rok piłkarzy, czyli Naród niechciany IP: *.lublin.mm.pl 30.12.03, 17:32
        gate? ju min goal.
      • Gość: waldek Re: Kiepski rok piłkarzy, czyli Naród niechciany IP: *.UNI-MUENSTER.DE 31.12.03, 00:59
        anglicizmy sa wszedzie. w niemieckim tez ich pelno. no i co z
        tego? dlaczego by nie? widac wplywy amerykanskie na polska
        kulture, ale moglo byc gorzej, jakby sie spotykalo w polskim
        arabizmy albo cos w tym rodzaju
      • Gość: Andrzeles Hej, panie Janek! IP: 12.3.132.* 31.12.03, 13:20
        If you wish those articles were in Polish, why the hell do you
        write your opinions in English? Are you really protesting the
        low quality of use of language, or you're just plain snob?
        • Gość: sars DO PANA RAFALA STECA IP: *.femur.pl / 193.16.255.* 02.01.04, 01:08
          dlaczego pisze pan ironicznie albanczyk czy gruzin?czy wedliug pana polscy
          pilkarze sa lepszy?nie,bo i albania i gruzja pokonaly rosje,a polska nie jest w
          stanie bo przejebala z lotwa.albanscy pilkarze graja w serie a a polacy nie,za
          kogo sie pan ma?polscy ilkarze pokazaly wszystkim na co ich stac podzczas
          finalow mistrzostw swiata,niech pan nie pisze tak ironicznie o innych
          pilkarzech, ma pan w swojej reprezentacji samych szmarkaczy,pozrawiam pana
          rafala steca z okazji nowego roku
          • Gość: Bartek Re: DO PANA RAFALA STECA IP: *.acn.pl 02.01.04, 10:02
            stec ma racje piszac o albanczykach, gruzinach - bo te nacje naprawde NIGDY nic nie znaczyly w pilce noznej na wieksza skale
            (sukcesy reprezentacji i klubow, a nie pojedyncze przypadki pilkarzy w lepszych ligach) a Polska kiedys tam dawala w tylek brazylii
            (obojetnie kiedy to bylo). wniosek - Polacy UMIEJA grac w pilke (bezsensem jest twierdzic, ze jakis narod nie jest uzdolniony w tej
            dyscyplinie), ci, ktorych mamy teraz nie sa wyjatkiem, problem tkwi gdzies indziej...gdzie? kazdy ma swoja odpowiedz.
            • Gość: Zezik Re: DO PANA RAFALA STECA IP: *.chello.pl 02.01.04, 21:15
              A Dinamo Tibilisi??
        • Gość: Janek Re: Hej, panie Janek! IP: *.lsanca1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net 04.01.04, 07:01
          Hej, panie A. !
          I write in English because I am can not write fluently in Polish. I read these
          articles for practice and to learn Polish - so not quite to be a snob. It
          seems unfortunate that a soccer team that can play so well against the
          Italians, though weakened, took such beatings against Sweden and other teams
          much weaker than Italy. The pressure was off and the game did not matter as
          much. In Korea, when it did not matter, they played very well against the US.
          Do they have a crisis of confidence? Do we have a larger confidence crisis
          when we use words like golkiper? It's a poor word - it sounds bad. Keeper
          sounds great but kiper sounds like a child.
          If journalists or anyone is going to create new words they should be better
          than the original (sound and meaning). I don't want to offend the reporter but
          if he can not show confidence in language, how can we expect it from the
          players on the field?
          • Gość: bartie Re: Hej, panie Janek! IP: *.nfosigw.gov.pl / 194.181.191.* 05.01.04, 08:19
            Panie Janku!
            The word 'golkiper' has been present in the Polish language for quite a long
            time, which makes your argument sound a little bit outdated, to say the least.
            It may sound odd to you, but it is no longer deemed as strange and exotic by
            the vast majority of Poles. Even if we limit our considerations on word
            borrowings from other languages to soccer, you should know
            that 'wolej', 'korner', and 'atak' have come to us from the motherland of
            football - England. The latter of which had been present in Polish for much
            longer than a hundred years of worldwide soccer popularity.

            Please also note that English vocabulary consists in 2/3 of borrowings from
            other languages. Most of them have come directly from French, but originate
            from Latin. They have not been accepted in English in the original spelling,
            which had to be altered to reflect the rules of English pronunciation as well
            as word formation. Just like the French word 'cherche' is known in English
            as 'search', the English word 'goalkeeper' is known in Polsih as 'golkiper'.
            Comprende?
            • Gość: Janek Re: Hej, panie Janek! IP: *.lsanca1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net 06.01.04, 10:35
              Hej, panie B!
              My argument is not with the age of 'golkiper' as a word, although I still
              think it sounds weak, worse than 'bramkarz', but with the use of the word and
              the number of words that are borrowed in the article. Number one 'nie jestesmy
              gesi' and number two many of the words sound awful. Do you honestly prefer
              going in the direction of 'kik z kornera or strzal z rogu', 'mowimy o meczu or
              mowimy o gejmie'.
              I don't see all this as strange and exotic to many Poles, but I do think that
              language represents a people. The use of derivative words, and frequently
              words that sound weak, in particular when the language already has very good
              words (at times already transformed, as you mention 'atak')
              is symptomatic of a lack of confidence. I am all for the evolution of
              language, if the new is better in meaning or sound than the old. In this case
              the old is much better.
              Your point about English using modified/modifie French words is absolutely
              correct. However, do we want to remember this time as the equivalent of the
              Norman invasion? I would prefer not. We have great words and the potential to
              bring great things to the rest of Europe. Why give that up!
              Entiendes?
              • Gość: bartie Re: Hej, panie Janek! IP: *.nfosigw.gov.pl / 194.181.191.* 06.01.04, 15:04
                All right man, I see your point now.
                I guess our views on the topic are pretty much the same :)

                BTW: A brand new borrowing from English (used by some young soccer
                commentators) is 'brylantowy'. It pisses me off as hell when they use that! I
                wonder if that's how it is every time a new word is 'imported'...
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