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Czy islam "wysiaduje" terroryzm???

12.07.05, 20:13
Bardzo dobry artykul Marca Steyna dajacy sporo do myslenia. Przetlumacze
jeden akapit

Terroryzm sie skonczy jak kultura w ktorym sie rozwija przestaje go
tolerowac. Byloby niewielu albo w ogole samobojcow-zamachowcow jesli
ich "meczenstwo" nie byloby gloryfikowane przez imamow i politykow, jesli ich
zdjecia nie wisialby w sklepach na Zachodnim Brzegu, jesli muzulmanskie banki
nie oferowalyby specjalych znizek dla rodzin "meczennikow", jesli szkoly nie
prowadzilyby zawodow na temat "kto chce zostac meczennikiem"

Mocne i jak prawdziwe slowa.

Terrorism ends when the broader culture refuses to tolerate it. There would
be few if any suicide bombers in the Middle East if "martyrdom" were not
glorified by imams and politicians, if pictures of local "martyrs" were not
proudly displayed in West Bank grocery stores, if Muslim banks did not offer
special "martyrdom" accounts to the relicts thereof, if schools did not run
essay competitions on "Why I want to grow up to be a martyr".


www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/07/12/do1202.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2005/07/12/ixopinion.html

Islam does incubate terrorism
By Mark Steyn
(Filed: 12/07/2005)
'There are no Muslim terrorists. There are terrorists," Father Paul Hawkins
of St Pancras parish church told his congregation on Sunday. "The people who
carried out these attacks are victims of a false religion, be it false
Christianity or false Islam."
Oh, dear. "Britain can take it" (as they said in the Blitz): that's never
been in doubt. The question is whether Britain can still dish it out. When
events such as last Thursday's occur, two things happen, usually within hours
if not minutes: first, spokespersons for Islamic lobby groups issue warnings
about an imminent backlash against Muslims.
In fairness to British organisations, I believe they were beaten to the punch
by the head of the Canadian Islamic Congress whose instant response to the
London bombings was to issue a statement calling for prayers that "Canadian
Muslims will not pay a price for being found guilty by association".
In most circumstances it would be regarded as appallingly bad taste to
deflect attention from an actual "hate crime" by scaremongering about a non-
existent one. But it seems the real tragedy of every act of "intolerance" by
Islamist bigots is that it might hypothetically provoke even more intolerance
from us irredeemable white imperialist racists. My colleague Peter Simple
must surely marvel at how the identity-group grievance industry has
effortlessly diversified into pre-emptively complaining about acts of
prejudice that have not yet occurred.
Among those of us who aren't Muslim, meanwhile, there's a stampede to be
first to the microphone to say that "of course" we all know that "the vast
majority of Muslims" are not terrorists but law-abiding peace-loving people
who share our revulsion at these appalling events, etc.
Mr Blair won that contest on Thursday, followed closely by Brian Paddick and
full supporting cast. If "of course" Mr Blair and Mr Paddick and the rest do
indeed know that "the vast majority of Muslims" do not favour terrorism, is
that because they've run the numbers and have a ballpark figure on the very
very very slim minority of Muslims who do? And, if so, what is it? 0.02 per
cent? Or two per cent? Or 20 per cent?
And, if they haven't run the numbers, why do they claim to speak with
authority on this matter? If it were just a question of rhetorical
sensitivity, I'd be happy to go along with Mr Paddick's multiculti pap and
insist that "Islam and terrorism don't go together" - events in Beslan, Bali,
Israel, Nigeria, Kashmir, etc, notwithstanding. But the danger in
separating "Islam" from "terrorism" is that it leads the control-freaks of
the nanny state into thinking that "terrorism" is something that can be dealt
with by border security, ID cards, retinal scans, metal detectors. It can't.
Terrorism ends when the broader culture refuses to tolerate it. There would
be few if any suicide bombers in the Middle East if "martyrdom" were not
glorified by imams and politicians, if pictures of local "martyrs" were not
proudly displayed in West Bank grocery stores, if Muslim banks did not offer
special "martyrdom" accounts to the relicts thereof, if schools did not run
essay competitions on "Why I want to grow up to be a martyr".
At this point, many readers will be indignantly protesting that this is all
the fault of Israeli "occupation", but how does that explain suicide bombings
in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where there's not a Zionist oppressor for
hundreds of miles? Islam has become the world's pre-eminent incubator of
terrorism at its most depraved. Indeed, so far London has experienced only
the lighter items on the bill of fare - random bombing of public transport
rather than decapitation, child sacrifice and schoolhouse massacres.
Most of us instinctively understand that when a senior Metropolitan Police
figure says bullishly that "Islam and terrorism don't go together", he's
talking drivel.
Many of us excuse it on the grounds that, well, golly, it must be a bit
embarrassing to be a Muslim on days like last Thursday and it doesn't do any
harm to cheer 'em up a bit with some harmless feel-good blather. But is this
so?
Why are we surprised that "Muslim moderates" rarely speak out against the
evil committed by their co-religionists when the likes of Mr Paddick keep
assuring us there's no problem? It requires great courage to be a dissenting
Muslim in communities dominated by heavy-handed imams and lobby groups that
function effectively as thought-police.
Yet all you hear from Mr Paddick is: "Move along, folks, there's nothing to
see here." This is the same approach, incidentally, that the authorities took
in their long refusal to investigate seriously the 120 or so "honour
killings" among British Muslims.
Just as the police did poor Muslim girls no favours by their excessive
cultural sensitivity, so they're now doing the broader Muslim community no
favours. The Blair-Paddick strategy only provides a slathering of mindless
multiculti fudge topping over the many layers of constraint that prevent
Islam beginning an honest conversation with itself.
Unlike Malaya or the Mau-Mau or the IRA, this is a global counter-terrorism
operation across widely differing terrain, geographical and psychological. We
need to be able to kill, constrain, coerce or coax as appropriate.
Kill terrorists when the opportunity presents itself, as 1,200 "insurgents"
were said to have been killed in one recent engagement on the Syria/Iraq
border the other day. Constrain the ideology behind Thursday's bombing by
outlawing Saudi funding of British mosques and other institutions. Coerce our
more laggardly allies like General Musharraf into shutting down his section
of the Saudi-Pakistani-Londonistan Wahhabist pipeline.
But the coaxing is what counts - wooing moderate Muslims into reclaiming
their religion. We can take steps to prevent Islamic terrorists killing us,
most of the time. But Islamic terrorists will only stop trying to kill us
when their culture reviles them rather than celebrates them.
There are signs in the last week's Muslim newspapers, in London and abroad,
that some eminent voices are beginning to speak out. At such a moment,
Britain should be on the side of free speech and open debate. Instead, the
state is attempting to steamroller through a grotesque law at the behest of
already unduly influential Islamic lobby groups. One of its principal effects
will be to inhibit Muslim reformers. Shame on us for championing Islamic
thought-police over Western liberty.

--
Obserwuj wątek
    • samsone Terror byl Islamu od roku 632 wybrana bronia. 12.07.05, 20:37
      tylko wczesniej o ich napadach terrystycznych i ich terrorystycznych
      ludobojstwach malo co sie slyszalo.Jak mozna calkowite wymordowanie calej
      ludnosci Narbonne w roku 732 ocenic, moze jako nawracanie na Islam.
      Islam to nie jest rewligia ale ideologia ,ktopra mozna doskonale do nazismu
      porownac, gdyby Hitler wygral to teraz ci ew Polsce by przezyli tez byli by
      nazistami( tzw Volksliste cos bardzo te zapisywanie sie do plemion arabskich
      przypominaly)
      • gspnstr Re: Terror byl Islamu od roku 632 wybrana bronia. 12.07.05, 21:45
        Gdy krzyzowcy zdobyli Jerozolime, wyrzneli w pien cala jej muzulmanska ludnosc.
        Salahuddin przynajmniej pozwolil chrzescijanom opuscic to miast gdy je pozniel
        zdobyl.

        Zaznacze, zanim mi to zarzucisz, ze nie jestem muzulmaninem. Ale jesli
        przytaczasz swoje fakty to musisz byc swiadom i faktow odmiennych. Inaczej to
        tylko uprawiasz tania propagande.
    • manny_ramirez to tez ciekawe 12.07.05, 20:57
      W krajach chrzescijanskich islamu sie nie przesladuje. W krajach zas islamskich
      chrzescijanstwo jest przesladowane. Czy mirmilek, goldbaum i spolka mogliby
      wytlumaczyc dlaczego nic na ten temat nie wspominaja???
      www.americandaily.com/article/8172
    • explicit Re: Czy islam "wysiaduje" terroryzm??? 12.07.05, 23:25
      Maniek , for God's sake , postudiuj troche ostatnie 200 lat historii tego
      regionu - Mysl ku#wa i nie podpieraj sie pismem reprezentujacym psycho narodu
      kolonizatorow ,... Gdziekolwiek nie spojrzysz wszedzie jest mess gdzie byly
      kolonie czy to angielskie , francuskie , czy belgijskie ,...

      Anglicy zostawili najwieksza spuscizne - Wiele krajow na Bliskim Wschodzie w
      Afryce nie ma racji bytu i jest spuscizna sztucznego podzialu obliczona na
      konflikt lokalnego interesu , ktora istnieje tylko dzieki poparciu dluznym nam
      czy bylych kolonizatorow kacykom ,... Kuwejt jest przykladem tam gdzie mamy
      interes , Algeria gdzie przymykamy oko na genocide , bo ma rope - Rwanda ,
      Botswana , Zair, Zimbabwe i pol Afryki gdzie nie mamy interesu , albo mamy w
      tym zeby sie wyrzneli ,... Zyjemy w czasach otwartych granic , jet-liners ,
      cell phones i internetu , ludzie podrozuja i maja porownanie jak zyja kacyki ,
      ci co ich utrzymuja przy wladzy z wlasna egzystencja ,...

      Inna sprawa , jak rattler zauwazyl na innym poscie , vacum ducha , programowana
      laicyzacja Europy kreowana przez politykow i filozofow prawem fizyki wypelnia
      sie czyms czego nie przewidzieli architekci tej polityki - Albo przewidzieli ,
      skloconym spoeczenstwem latwiej rzadzic ,...

      uklony

      ==============================================================================

      Terroryzm sie skonczy jak kultura w ktorym sie rozwija przestaje go
      tolerowac. Byloby niewielu albo w ogole samobojcow-zamachowcow jesli
      ich "meczenstwo" nie byloby gloryfikowane przez imamow i politykow, jesli ich
      zdjecia nie wisialby w sklepach na Zachodnim Brzegu, jesli muzulmanskie banki
      nie oferowalyby specjalych znizek dla rodzin "meczennikow", jesli szkoly nie
      prowadzilyby zawodow na temat "kto chce zostac meczennikiem"

      Mocne i jak prawdziwe slowa.


            • explicit Re: przeczytaj w takim razie Johna Graya 13.07.05, 17:30
              Najlogiczniejsza teza z tego co do tej pory slyszalem i czytalem ,...

              uklony

              ===============================================================================
              Posrednio ich wysiedziala? to moze ona byla tylko surrogate mother? albo egg
              donor? Ha ha ha haha
              ===============================================================================

              Why Are They Killing Us?
              ==============================
              by Patrick J. Buchanan

              Who carried out the London massacre, we do not know. But, as to why they did
              it, we are already quarreling.

              President Bush says that the terrorists are attacking our civilization. At Fort
              Bragg, N.C., he explained again why we are fighting in Iraq, two years after we
              overthrew Saddam Hussein. "Iraq is the latest battlefield in this war," he
              said, in "a global war on terror."

              "Many terrorists who kill … on the streets of Baghdad are followers of the same
              murderous ideology that took the lives of citizens in New York, Washington, and
              Pennsylvania. There is only one course of action against them: to defeat them
              abroad before they attack us at home."

              Bush was echoed by Sen. John McCain. Those terrorists in Iraq, McCain told
              Larry King, "are the same guys who would be in New York if we don't win." We
              fight the terrorists over there so we do not have to fight them over here.

              But is this true?

              Few Americans have given more thought to the motivation of suicide bombers than
              Robert Pape, author of Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism.
              His book is drawn from an immense database on every suicide-bomb attack from
              1980 to early 2004. Conclusion: The claim that 9/11 and the suicide bombings in
              Iraq are done to advance some jihad by "Islamofascists" against the West is not
              only unsubstantiated, it is hollow.

              "Islamic fundamentalism is not as closely associated with suicide terrorism as
              many people think," Pape tells The American Conservative in its July 18 issue.
              Indeed, the world's leader in suicide terror was the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka.
              This secular Marxist group "invented the famous suicide vest for their suicide
              assassination of Rajiv Ghandi in May 1991. The Palestinians got the idea of the
              vest from the Tamil Tigers."

              But if the aim of suicide bombers is not to advance Islamism in a war of
              civilizations, what is its purpose? Pape's conclusion:

              "[S]uicide-terrorist attacks are not so much driven by religion as by a clear
              strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces
              from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to
              Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide
              terrorist campaign – over 95 percent of all incidents – has had as its central
              objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw."

              The 9/11 terrorists were over here because we were over there. They are not
              trying to convert us. They are killing us to drive us out of their countries.

              Before the U.S. invasion, says Pape,

              "Iraq never had a suicide attack in its history. Since our invasion, suicide
              terrorism has been escalating rapidly, with 20 attacks in 2003, 48 in 2004 and
              over 50 in just the first five months of 2005. Every year since the U.S.
              invasion, suicide terrorism has doubled. … Far from making us safer against
              terrorism, the operation in Iraq has stimulated suicide terrorists and has
              given suicide terrorism a new lease on life."

              Pape is saying that President Bush has got it backward: The Iraq war is not
              eradicating terrorism, it is creating terrorists.

              The good news? "The history of the last 20 years" shows that once the troops of
              the occupying democracies "withdraw from the homeland of the terrorists, they
              often stop – and stop on a dime."

              Between 1982 and 1986, there were 41 suicide-bomb attacks on U.S., French, and
              Israeli targets in Lebanon. When U.S. and French troops withdrew and Israel
              pulled back to a six-mile buffer zone, suicide bombings virtually ceased. When
              the Israelis left Lebanon, the Lebanese suicide bombers did not follow them to
              Tel Aviv.

              "Since suicide terrorism is mainly a response to foreign occupation and not
              Islamic fundamentalism," says Pape, "the use of heavy military force to
              transform Muslim societies … is only likely to increase the number of suicide
              terrorists coming at us."

              What Pape is saying is that the neocons' "World War IV" – our invading Islamic
              countries to overthrow regimes and convert them into democracies – is suicidal,
              like stomping on an anthill so as not to be bitten by ants. It is the presence
              of U.S. troops in Islamic lands that is the progenitor of suicide terrorism.

              Bush's cure for terrorism is a cause of the epidemic. The doctor is spreading
              the disease. The longer we stay in Iraq, the greater the number of suicide
              attacks we can expect. The sooner we get our troops out, the sooner terrorism
              over there and over here will end. So Pape says the data proves. This is the
              precise opposite of what George Bush argues and believes.




                • explicit Re: przeczytaj w takim razie Johna Graya 14.07.05, 15:40
                  Wydedukuj sam z wypowiedzi samego autora tych zamachow a jak jeszcze cos nie
                  zrozumiesz to sie spytaj ,...

                  uklony

                  ==============================================================================

                  I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the
                  towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and
                  tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and
                  Lebanon, it came to my mind.

                  The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America
                  permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped
                  them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and
                  others were terrorised and displaced.

                  I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and
                  children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and
                  high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home
                  without mercy.

                  The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except
                  for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't
                  include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

                  In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but
                  in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave
                  birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

                  And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that
                  we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in
                  America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be
                  deterred from killing our women and children.

                  And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional
                  killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy.
                  Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and
                  intolerance.

                  english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm
                  ==============================================================================

                  to rozwalenie WTC tez bylo odpowiedzia na irak? i atak na Cole i na WTC w 1993?
                    • explicit Re: przeczytaj w takim razie Johna Graya 15.07.05, 15:15
                      Maniek zadales mi konkretne pytanie [... to rozwalenie WTC tez bylo odpowiedzia
                      na irak? i atak na Cole i na WTC w 1993?" ...] podalem ci wypowiedz Bin Ladena
                      gdzie odpowiada ci na pytanie - Czego jeszcze chcesz ?

                      Chcesz odpowiedz na temat , kto ponosi wine za rzezie z lat 30-tych ? Zajrzyj
                      do materialow i moze zauwazysz , ze przed naplywem obcych temu regionowi ,
                      khasarskich zioncow , sefaryjscy Zydzi i Arabowie zyli we wzglednym spokoju

                      Faktem jest ze tania jatka zaczela sie po naplywie przybledow i trwa do dzisiaj

                      uklony

                      ==============================================================================

                      no tak rzezie w latach 30tych sponsorowane przez muftiego jerozolimy to tez
                      byly pewnie z winy Amerykanow




      • manny_ramirez ABE cholera jasna 12.07.05, 23:56
        mozesz mi wytlumaczyc jak te wszystkie organizacje polaczylas z islamem. Bo ja
        niestety jestem za glup na to:(((

        Jesli chodzi o mnie to one nie maja tu ABSOLUTNIE nic do rzeczy
        • abe_ltd Re: ABE cholera jasna 13.07.05, 00:04
          Ja te wszystkie organizacje polaczylam z terroryzmem. To ty polaczyles
          terroryzm z islamem nazywajac islam wylegarnia terroryzmu. Ja tylko mowie ze
          jak to rzeczywiscie islam za kokoszke robil to udalo mu sie zniesc pare kaczych
          jaj.
          Buziuchna, Maniek :) i juz nie klnij.
    • j-k Jedynym wyjsciem jest MODEL TURECKI 13.07.05, 20:07
      Czyli oddzielenie kosciola od Panstwa.
      Nawet za cene przejsciowego ograniczenia demokracji.

      W Turcji - mulla nawojujacy do Jihadu, zostalby szybko "nauczony" wlasciwego
      zachowania.

      Podobnie chcial zrobic z Iranem Reza Pahlavi.
      Byl tylko zbyt malo konsekwentny, gdyz nie wiedzial z kim walczy.
      Gdyby wydal odpowiednie dyspozycje co do eliminacji Chomeiniego,
      i przeniesienia go na Marsa,
      do islamskiej tragedii w Iranie by nie doszlo.
    • hans2 Re: Czy islam "wysiaduje" terroryzm??? 09.08.05, 08:42
      Napewno
      n
      Nie zapomnijmy o mordercach islamskich z Bieslan
      Ci byli najokrutniejsi strzelali do dzieci i matek w plecy i bez
      powodu.
      Byly relacje o gwaltach na dzieciach TVN dziennik (nie sprawdzone ).

      Arabowie nie zdazyli pociac gardel jak to maja w zwyczaju
    • bladatwarz Zydzi od terroryzmu zaczeli i nigdy sie go nie wyr 09.08.05, 09:21
      wyrzekli, wiec teza, ze mozna w spolecznstwie pozbyc sie terroryzmu przez brak
      akceptacji spolecznej jest niesluszna. Irgun i inne organizacje terrorystyczne
      zakladne przez zydow maja swoja kontynuacje w rzadach Szarona i ciaglej wojnie
      bez poszanowania rezolucji ONZ.
      Dlaczego Arabowie mieliby sie zachowac w inny sposob?

      NIe liczylabym na cud, a artykul jest zgodny z modnym ostatnio tonem
      ,,oswajaniem wroga''.

      Robi Cook (sp) powiedzial, ze byloby lepiej gdzyby UK doprowadzila do pokoju w
      Palestynie a nie do wojny w Iraku.

      manny_ramirez napisał:


      > Bardzo dobry artykul Marca Steyna dajacy sporo do myslenia. Przetlumacze
      > jeden akapit
      >
      > Terroryzm sie skonczy jak kultura w ktorym sie rozwija przestaje go
      > tolerowac. Byloby niewielu albo w ogole samobojcow-zamachowcow jesli
      > ich "meczenstwo" nie byloby gloryfikowane przez imamow i politykow, jesli ich
      > zdjecia nie wisialby w sklepach na Zachodnim Brzegu, jesli muzulmanskie banki
      > nie oferowalyby specjalych znizek dla rodzin "meczennikow", jesli szkoly nie
      > prowadzilyby zawodow na temat "kto chce zostac meczennikiem"
      >
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