Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku

IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 10.01.03, 12:03
Ten post napisalem po angielsku na innym forum, a ze jest dosyc dlugi, nie
bede go tlumaczyl na jezyk polski.

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Even as Washington under George W. Bush demands that other countries meet
various obligations, disavow any nuclear plans and substantially disarm their
conventional forces, the US itself refuses to ratify the nuclear test-ban
treaty, withdraws from various conventions to control missile and chemical
and bacteriological weapons development and deployment, signals its intent to
pursue nuclear hegemony including the domination of space, continues to base
its defence on nuclear weapons (an armoury of an estimated 9,000 of them),
deploys 'conventional weapons' which use the radioactive by-products of
nuclear technology (depleted uranium), and pushes Congress to authorize small
nuclear warheads, known as 'Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator' weapons,
undoubtedly with North Korea's bunkers and underground complexes in mind.

The NKoreans know that America is not a trustworthy partner. NK knows that
America is hell-bent on war, with anyone they can possibly bully into a war.
While America prepares to attack Iraq, which has agreed to just about
everything that Washington has demanded, NK knows that it is also in Bush's
crosshairs. Bush keeps ranting about the need for Kim to be credible. Well,
Bush is not living up to demands that he places on others. The IAEA has found
absolutely nothing. And lets be realistic. Nuclear and bioloogical programs
are not easy to hide.

Rumsfeld has recently asserted that the war in Iraq could be prevented
if "Saddam stepped down." What we see here is American usurping the right to
dictate who rules which country. Let's just overlook the fact that this is
absolutely ludicrous. What credibility can a guy who falsified election
results have when making such demands? America doesnt have the right to
demand any change in government. Kim see this and he has to wander.
Let's also not be stupid and ignorant of the fact that it has been America,
NOT NKorea which has for 5 decades threatened its counterpart with nuclear
weapons. Threatening to drop the atom on NK has been an american way of
interaction with our northern neighbors. Even now, it is NK that is more
lilely to be the victim of a nuclear strike. The American track-record is
well known.
1. In the early winter of 1950 General MacArthur sought permission to
drop 'between 30 and 50 atomic bombs' and lay a belt of radioactive cobalt
across the neck of the Korean peninsula. The Joint Chiefs of Staff several
times deliberated and came very close to using the bomb, and during the
autumn of 1951 one US operation, known as 'Operation Hudson Harbor', involved
the dispatch of a solitary B 29 to Pyongyang as if on a nuclear run. It was
designed to cause terror, and undoubtedly it did.
2.Four years after the war ended, the US introduced nuclear artillery, mines,
and missiles into Korea, adding thereafter to its stockpile kept adjacent to
the Demilitarized Zone and designed to intimidate the non-nuclear North. When
nuclear weapons were withdrawn in 1991, at South Korean demand, the US
continued its rehearsals for a long-range nuclear bombing strike on North
Korea, certainly until 1998, and probably till today.
3. If you were payint attention to the news you would know that America has
changed the criterias needed for launching a nuclear strike. Henceforth
nuclear weapons could be employed in “retaliation for attack with nuclear,
biological or chemical weapons” and “against targets able to withstand non-
nuclear attack,” an apparent reference to North Korean underground
industrial and military facilities. A third category called for nuclear
attack “in the event of surprising military developments,”- quite vagie
isnt it? Exaclty what does it mean?
4. Remember the axis of evil speech? Well guess who is on a list of potential
American nuclear targets. Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya and
Syria. Does NK have reasons to worry?

Yes he does. The American history of brutal murders is well known to all
those who dont pander to America as if it was some kind of humanitarian hero.
NK doesnt need to look to the murders in central Ameica or the middle east or
to Vietnam. It needs only to remember the Korean War. In the first year of
that war, on November 5, 1950, General Douglas MacArthur ordered the
destruction of “every means of communication, every installation, factory,
city and village” in an area stretching from the Yalu River to the battle
line. Over 2,300 gallons of napalm were dropped on Pyongyang in one raid
alone, in July 1952. Mass fire bombings systematically wiped out one town
after another, and US planes also targeted power stations and irrigation dams
that supported rice fields. As irrigation dams were destroyed, villages
downstream were swept away in the resulting floods, inflicting enormous death
and destruction. At various times during the war, the US even considered use
of tactical nuclear weapons.

America had alot to be proud of in that war. And with great General Curtis
LeMay stated, “We burned down just about every city in North and South Korea
both,” and “we killed off over a million civilian Koreans and drove several
million more from their homes.”

Did NK really admit to anything in that meeting with Kelly? Its doubtful.

1. Bush wanted to kill the 1994 deal really badly.
2. Remember the so called admission of nuclear weapons in the Korean media
not so long ago? It turned out to be a mistranslation.
3. In 1993 Clinton wanted a war really badly, and the deal that was struck
was not something he welcomed.
4. What happened when Kelly went to the North?At no time during the meetings
was Kelly willing to discuss the resumption of relations. Instead, Kelly led
off the first meeting by ignoring the usual protocol of greetings, blunting
saying that he had not come to negotiate. Kelly then accused North Korea of
violating the terms of the Agreed Framework by conducting a secret uranium
enrichment program to develop nuclear weapons. Furthermore, he added, there
could be no dialogue between the two nations until this program was
disbanded. According to the North Koreans, Kelly was “very rude” and
presented his demands in an “extremely threatening and arrogant manner.”

Does America care about the South? No. America has no intention to listen to
South Korea worries about a possible war. Clinton proved it. When he was in
power he was going to attack Korea, caring little about what such a war would
mean to South Korea. Total devastation? Who cares!

Who started that conflict with the DPRK in 1993? Well here is a little
timeline.

1. The conflict in U.S.-North Korean relations over the nuclear issue first
arose on January 26, 1993, when President Clinton announced that the U.S
military would conduct war games in South Korea
2. This was followed the next month by the news that some of the nuclear
weapons previously targeted on the Soviet Union would be redirected at North
Korea.
3. By March, the massive Team Spirit war games involving bombers, cruise
missiles and naval vessels were underway.
4. new difficulties soon arose when the International Atomic Energy Agency
(IAEA) insisted on inspecting undeclared nuclear sites in North Korea,
something the agency had never demanded from any other nation. Followed by
more intrusive demands. Again, never damanded of from any other country.
5. Talks broke off. In November of that year, President Clinton appeared
on “Meet the Press,” insisting that “North Korea cannot be allowed to
develop a nuclear bomb.”
6. Defense Secretary
    • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii cz.2 IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 10.01.03, 12:15
      6. Defense Secretary William Perry and Assistant Secretary of Defense Ashton
      Carter “spent much of the first half of 1994 preparing for war on the Korean
      peninsula.
      7.Perry and Carter admit that “the price would be heavy, estimating
      that “thousands of U.S. troops and tens of thousands of South Korean troops
      would be killed, and millions of refugees would crowd the highways.
      8. Kim warned U.S. Ambassador James Laney that another war would turn all of
      Korea into a bloodbath and that South Korea would not move “even a single
      soldier” in support of the U.S. war. Kim then phoned President Clinton and
      argued with him for 32 minutes. “I told him there would be no inter-Korean war
      while I was president,” Kim said. “Clinton tried to persuade me to change my
      mind, but I criticized the United States for planning to stage a war with the
      North on our land.” Finally, Clinton relented, but he considered South Korean
      opposition only a temporary setback, and U.S. officials continued to plan for
      war.

      Well, what will happen this time? Clinton next to Bush was sane. Bush is not
      sane. He is bent on waging war, and damn to hell anyone who opposes him. Even
      if its his ally.

      On another note, it has been recently reported in the news that Washington has
      asserted that it "has the right to conduct military operations in the territory
      of Pakistan". What is really emerging is the picture of America abusing its
      power. Dictating who can rule where, demanding others adhere to rules it itself
      never adhered to, usurping the right to act militarily whereever it wants to.
      Backed up by its history as a brutal murdere and supporter of some of this
      century's most blood-drenched dictators. America is an evil no lesser than that
      of the so called "Axis of evil".
      • pl.adex Re: Bowling for Columbine 10.01.03, 12:30
        Dear Korean I see that you try to portrait America as a evil place,instead of
        writing such long articles,you should recommend people to go see in local
        cinema Michael Moore documentary-Bowling for Columbine and to read his book
        Stupid White Man . After seeing the movie and reading the book I started
        looking on Bush in different light and words American People and freedom got
        different meaning to me,but I have to admit that nonetheless I stil prefer
        american way of life than life under Hussain or in North Korea.
        • Gość: ♥ Re: Bowling for Columbine IP: *.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net 10.01.03, 12:57
          What U ar going to prove? That kiling almost all ethnic polulation and stiling
          rasources is richer way opf living.?

          Korea exist on rocky penisula from the begining of history . America 150 ears
          ago advertised "Wild emty western"

          That land preempted by US Army.

          Yep US-way is reacher more welthy way.
        • Gość: ♥ Re: Bowling for Columbine IP: *.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net 10.01.03, 12:59
          What U ar going to prove? That kiling almost all ethnic polulation and stiling
          rasources is richer way opf living.?

          Korea exist on rocky penisula from the begining of history . America 150 ears
          ago advertised "Wild emty western"

          That land preempted by US Army.

          Yep US-way is reacher more welthy way.
        • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Bowling for Columbine IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 10.01.03, 13:00
          pl.adex napisała:

          > Dear Korean I see that you try to portrait America as a evil place,instead of
          > writing such long articles,you should recommend people to go see in local
          > cinema Michael Moore documentary-Bowling for Columbine and to read his book
          > Stupid White Man . After seeing the movie and reading the book I started
          > looking on Bush in different light and words American People and freedom got
          > different meaning to me,but I have to admit that nonetheless I stil prefer
          > american way of life than life under Hussain or in North Korea.

          Jaki Korean? Nie przeczytales mojego nicka? A co do glupoty, ba! kretynizmu
          przecietnego amerykanina, chyba kazdy wie ze to narod idiotow. Wystarczy sie
          tam przejechac. To jest narod wychowany na idiotycznych sitcomach. Ameryka to
          narod grubasow, tepych palantow. wierza we wszystko co wciska w ich glupie lby
          Ted Turner, jedza wszystko co wciska im w glupie ryje Ronald McDonald i potem
          sa wlasnie takie skutki: rzesze obrzydliwych tepych grubasow. A prezydent taki
          jaki narod: moze nie gruby, ale glupota nadabia brak tuszy.

          Co do zycia stylem amerykanskim. Jasne, lepiej w Ameryce niz w KRL-D ale sa
          przeciez inne miejsca na tym swiecie. Mamy mnostwo wyborow. Ja wole Koree Pld
          niz Ameryke. W ameryce bylem, wybralem Koree. Do Polski raczej nie wracam,
          narazie, bo zarobki w Koreii mam takie jak w USA, a ceny sa porownywalne do
          tych w Polsce.
        • Gość: AK Re: So stay ther and leave others alone IP: *.free.wxs.nl 12.01.03, 20:38
        • Gość: normalna Re: Bowling for Columbine IP: NewMail.hamrazone.com:* / 62.84.74.* 19.01.03, 18:30
          pl.adex napisała:

          > Dear Korean I see that you try to portrait America as a evil place,instead of
          > writing such long articles,you should recommend people to go see in local
          > cinema Michael Moore documentary-Bowling for Columbine and to read his book
          > Stupid White Man . After seeing the movie and reading the book I started
          > looking on Bush in different light and words American People and freedom got
          > different meaning to me,but I have to admit that nonetheless I stil prefer
          > american way of life than life under Hussain or in North Korea.

          Very good! be happy with your american way of life and let the other people
          decide for themself and live like they prefere . And, please, stop be silly.
          you know very well that it will be the war ,,for oil'', not for liberate the
          irakien or any other people. i try to imagine this ,,good oncle george''
          thinking about other nations than american but it doesnt work... No way!
      • Gość: GT Re: cz.2 IP: *.ipt.aol.com 11.01.03, 06:12
        Gość portalu: Polak_w_Koreii napisał(a):

        > 6. Defense Secretary William Perry and Assistant Secretary of Defense Ashton
        > Carter “spent much of the first half of 1994 preparing for war on the Kor
        > ean peninsula.

        If I were you, I would pray that the plans are in place when Kim decides that
        you are rude in the South.
    • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 10.01.03, 17:46
      wchodzimy do UE a widze ze ze znajomoscia angielskiego jest u was slabo. Gdzie
      sa ciproamerykanie? Tak kochacie swoja ameryke a angielskiego nie znacie?:)
      • cornelius_scipio Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku 10.01.03, 18:03
        Gość portalu: Polak_w_Koreii napisał(a):

        > wchodzimy do UE a widze ze ze znajomoscia angielskiego jest u was slabo.
        Gdzie
        > sa ciproamerykanie? Tak kochacie swoja ameryke a angielskiego nie znacie?:)

        Tak nienawidzisz Ameryki Polaku, a piszesz po nagielsku. Polskiego zapomniałeś?
        • Gość: felusiak Polakzkorei nie zna angielskiego. IP: *.nyc.rr.com 10.01.03, 18:15
        • Gość: felusiak Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: *.nyc.rr.com 10.01.03, 18:25
          www.nypost.com/seven/01082003/gossip/pagesix.htm
          It's about Michael Moore.

          Polakzkorei nie napisal nic po angielsku gdyz w tym jezyku nie pisze.
          prosze zauwazyc, ze przytacza angielskie slowa jako swoje potem wywiazuje sie
          dyskusja po angielsku przerwana polskim postem polakazkorei.
          Oprocz pisania idiotyzmow lewacko populistyczno antyamerykanskich niczym
          specjalnym on sie nie wyroznia. Korzysta z nieograniczonej niczym wolnosci
          slowa czyli czegos co jest takie amerykanskie.
          • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 11.01.03, 02:31
            Gość portalu: felusiak napisał(a):

            > <a
            href="www.nypost.com/seven/01082003/gossip/pagesix.htm"target="_blank
            > ">www.nypost.com/seven/01082003/gossip/pagesix.htm</a>
            > It's about Michael Moore.
            >
            > Polakzkorei nie napisal nic po angielsku gdyz w tym jezyku nie pisze.

            hehehe. Chcesz podyskutowac po angielsku?:) Zobaczymy kto zna ten jezyk lepiej.

            > prosze zauwazyc, ze przytacza angielskie slowa jako swoje potem wywiazuje sie
            > dyskusja po angielsku przerwana polskim postem polakazkorei.

            Masz jakies dowody?

            > Oprocz pisania idiotyzmow lewacko populistyczno antyamerykanskich niczym
            > specjalnym on sie nie wyroznia. Korzysta z nieograniczonej niczym wolnosci
            > slowa czyli czegos co jest takie amerykanskie.
        • Gość: portlandia1 Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: *.client.attbi.com 11.01.03, 02:45
          swiate slowa:)) co niektorym sie jezyki pomylily albo mysla ze zaimponuja swoja
          wiedza piszac w obcym jezyku:))hahah
          Zaczerpnij wiecej informacj na temat ameryki a potem pisz , bo to wszystko to
          czysta nienawisc i zawisc. Moze i Ameryka nie jest najwspanialsza i ma nie
          udaczny rzad ale jako ktaj jest piekna i wspaniala.
          • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 11.01.03, 03:45
            Gość portalu: portlandia1 napisał(a):

            > swiate slowa:)) co niektorym sie jezyki pomylily albo mysla ze zaimponuja
            swoja
            >
            > wiedza piszac w obcym jezyku:))hahah


            60% Polakow wogole nie rozumie tego co czyta. Ty masz wlasnie ten problem.

            POWTARZAM: Post napisalem po angielsku bo pisalem go na forum angielsko-
            jezycznym. Byl dlugi, wiec tluaczyc mi sie nie chcialo.


            > Zaczerpnij wiecej informacj na temat ameryki a potem pisz , bo to wszystko to
            > czysta nienawisc i zawisc. Moze i Ameryka nie jest najwspanialsza i ma nie
            > udaczny rzad ale jako ktaj jest piekna i wspaniala.

            Tak. Wspaniala. Oglupiajace sitcomy. 70% ludzi zre najgorszej jakosci jedzenie
            na swiecie, dlatego maja tylu grubasow. Ameryka to najgrubszy i najlgupszy
            narod na swiecie. Bylem u nich wiele razy, widzialem na wlasne oczy. A kulture
            amerykanska potepiam bo to kompletne dno. Sitcomy, idiotyczne filmy hollywood,
            nieistniejaca literatura. Wszystko robione dla masowej konsumpcji, czyli
            wszystko proste aby przecietny jankes mogl zrozumiec. Kurde, nawet z Solaris
            Lema zrobili kosmicznego Titanica. Oczywiscie z Clooneyem w roli glownej i z
            golym tylkiem zeby przyciagnac amrykanki ktore o Lemie nie slyszaly w zyciu a
            Oprah Winfrey to dla nich idolka.
            • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: *.ipt.aol.com 11.01.03, 06:26
              > Tak. Wspaniala. Oglupiajace sitcomy. 70% ludzi zre najgorszej jakosci
              > jedzenie
              > na swiecie, dlatego maja tylu grubasow. Ameryka to najgrubszy i najlgupszy
              > narod na swiecie. Bylem u nich wiele razy, widzialem na wlasne oczy. A
              kulture
              > amerykanska potepiam bo to kompletne dno.

              Tego typu zdanie o Ameryce maja ci, ktorzy nie wyszli poza getta ubostwa.
              Ludzie, ktorych nie bylo stac na obiad w dobrej resturacji, ktorzy nie poszli
              do klubu jazzowego czy do filharmoni bo musieli zasuwac na dachach, nie poszli
              pograc w tenisa bo musieli pic gorzale w towarzystwie grubasow ogladajacych
              sitkomy.


              Zeby zobaczyc inna Ameryke trzeba otworzyc oczy - no i zarobic pieniadze zeby z
              niej kozystac, tego byle pieniacz nie potrafi.

              > idiotyczne filmy hollywood,
              > nieistniejaca literatura.

              W US produkuje sie 80% swiatowych filmow, a Hollywood to tylko czesc obrazu -
              zaloze sie, ze prawie kazdy film ktory Ci sie podobal byl wyprodukowany przez
              Amerykanow. Ze zdarzaja sie knoty - kto ci kaze na to chodzic.

              USA to kraj w ktorym wydaje sie wiecej tytulow ksiazek niz w jakimkolwiek innym
              kraju na swiecie, gdzie sprzedaje sie wiecej ksiazek niz w jakim kolwiek innym
              kraju - czy byles kiedys w Amerykanskiej ksiegarni? Amerykanskiej bibliotece?

              Chlopie, widziales Greenpoint czy Jackowo... z tamtad to jescze do Ameryki
              daleko.
            • Gość: felusial nadal twierdze ze polakzkorei nie zna angielskiego IP: *.nyc.rr.com 11.01.03, 06:33
              Do tej pory nie napisal w tym jezyku ani slowa. Moze oczywiscie przykrywac
              swoja niewiedze smiechem, nie zmienia to jednak faktu, ze po angielsku nie
              potrafi i poczatkowego postu nigdy nie napisal.
              • Gość: GT Re: nadal twierdze ze polakzkorei nie zna angiels IP: *.ipt.aol.com 11.01.03, 06:43
                Gość portalu: felusial napisał(a):

                > Do tej pory nie napisal w tym jezyku ani slowa. Moze oczywiscie przykrywac
                > swoja niewiedze smiechem, nie zmienia to jednak faktu, ze po angielsku nie
                > potrafi i poczatkowego postu nigdy nie napisal.

                Zobaczymy jak poradzi sobie z odpowiedzia, kazdy potrafi uzywac "copy and
                paste", budowanie argumentow jest troche trudniejsze.
              • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: nadal twierdze ze polakzkorei nie zna angiels IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 11.01.03, 12:01
                Gość portalu: felusial napisał(a):

                > Do tej pory nie napisal w tym jezyku ani slowa. Moze oczywiscie przykrywac
                > swoja niewiedze smiechem, nie zmienia to jednak faktu, ze po angielsku nie
                > potrafi i poczatkowego postu nigdy nie napisal.


                Well then, let's discuss. Let's discuss the galactic stupidity of the american
                nation. Their ignorance of the world outside that plastic hell hole a.k.a. the
                United States of America. We can begin with the recent National Geographic
                survey which showed that the majority of Americans are unable to locate their
                own capital, the continent of Europe or even the pacific ocean. Or, we can
                discuss the 70% obesity rate. The astonishing stupidity of that pathetic nation
                may be due to the blockage of blood vessels in their diminished brains. Years
                of no excercise and stuffing their faces with hamburgers have resulted in a
                nation whose intellectual capacity oscilates around the chimpanzee level.
                • Gość: GT Re: nadal twierdze ze polakzkorei nie zna angiels IP: 65.90.124.* 11.01.03, 21:43
                  > We can begin with the recent National Geographic
                  > survey which showed that the majority of Americans are unable to locate their
                  > own capital, the continent of Europe or even the pacific ocean.

                  The sample of National Geographic must have exclude those Americans who did not
                  have time to answer because they were designing new drugs (90% of medical
                  discoveries), creating new movies (80% of film production), programing
                  computers (90% of software production).

                  > Or, we can discuss the 70% obesity rate.

                  Americans use stringent criteria for defining obesity, so the rates are
                  artificailly excessive (particlarly in a slopy studies, you must have seen). By
                  such criteria Sylvester Stallone and Michael Jordan are obese. US is one of few
                  coutries actually studying obesity. Most chose to ignore it. Despite of obesity
                  US has one of the highest life spans for it's population and is leading country
                  in most of the health indicators.
                  • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: nadal twierdze ze polakzkorei nie zna angiels IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 12.01.03, 02:03
                    Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                    > > We can begin with the recent National Geographic
                    > > survey which showed that the majority of Americans are unable to locate th
                    > eir
                    > > own capital, the continent of Europe or even the pacific ocean.
                    >
                    > The sample of National Geographic must have exclude those Americans who did
                    not
                    >
                    > have time to answer because they were designing new drugs (90% of medical
                    > discoveries), creating new movies (80% of film production), programing
                    > computers (90% of software production).

                    That's right, because we all know that the medical and scientific breakthroughs
                    are not performed by small groups of scientists but rather in a mass effort
                    that involves every citizen from every walk of life. Yeah...

                    As for movie production, India produces more films per year than America,
                    making your 80% figure bogus and absurd. And even if it was right, 5% of those
                    movies are good. The rest is absolute garbage. Look at Solaris, Americans made
                    a freaking space Titanic out of it.

                    > > Or, we can discuss the 70% obesity rate.
                    >
                    > Americans use stringent criteria for defining obesity, so the rates are
                    > artificailly excessive (particlarly in a slopy studies, you must have seen).
                    By
                    >
                    > such criteria Sylvester Stallone and Michael Jordan are obese. US is one of
                    few
                    >
                    > coutries actually studying obesity. Most chose to ignore it. Despite of
                    obesity
                    >
                    > US has one of the highest life spans for it's population and is leading
                    country
                    >
                    > in most of the health indicators.


                    Go out on the street in any large American city. Chicago, Philadelphia, New
                    York....You will see that the majority of the people are walking bags of
                    blubber and fat. The consumption of fast food, the inactivity rate, etc etc etc
                    are all areas where America leads the world. And despite all the awareness, the
                    situation is getting worse.
                    • Gość: GT Re: nadal twierdze ze polakzkorei nie zna angiels IP: 65.90.124.* 12.01.03, 17:00
                      > That's right, because we all know that the medical and scientific
                      > breakthroughs are not performed by small groups of scientists but rather in a
                      > mass effort
                      > that involves every citizen from every walk of life. Yeah...

                      Of course, even the most stupid, obese American who cleans bathrooms, deserves
                      part of the prise, he pays taxes, suports education, finanaces sicentific break
                      throughs. Thanks to people like him this country can produce most innovation in
                      the world. Actually his impact on science may be bigger than yours - what
                      scientific break throughs did you sponsor.

                      > As for movie production, India produces more films per year than America,
                      > making your 80% figure bogus and absurd. And even if it was right, 5% of
                      > those movies are good.

                      80% figure relates to income from the movies not to number of movies. American
                      movies are watched all overt the world (whether you like them or not), and even
                      in India (serious movie producer) American movies bring more money than Indian
                      production.

                      > The rest is absolute garbage. Look at Solaris,
                      > Americans made a freaking space Titanic out of it.

                      OK Solaris may not be the best movie, so what? Make better one, if you can. It
                      does not change the fact that people all over the world pay money to see
                      American movies - like them or not - millions other do.

                      > Go out on the street in any large American city. Chicago, Philadelphia, New
                      > York....You will see that the majority of the people are walking bags of
                      > blubber and fat. The consumption of fast food, the inactivity rate, etc etc
                      > etc

                      I guess we were walking on the diferent streets of NY and Philadelphia. Where I
                      live slim and fit people are riding bikes in the mornig and playinnng tennis
                      after work. They swimm in their own pools, live active lives until they are 80,
                      than retire to their Florida houses and watch sun rising over Atlantic Ocean
                      until they die in their 100-s.

                      You could have seen America, but you never got out of the getto. Your only
                      American experience come from the buttom. You never spoke with the educated
                      American, you did not come close to American University, you never played
                      tennis or golf with you American friends, you never went to American bookstore
                      or library, you never went to the theater, jazz concert, philharmonics. Only
                      people you'v seen were loosers as yourself and this is YOUR AMERICA, my is
                      different.
                      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: nadal twierdze ze polakzkorei nie zna angiels IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 12.01.03, 17:24
                        Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):


                        > > As for movie production, India produces more films per year than America,
                        > > making your 80% figure bogus and absurd. And even if it was right, 5% of
                        > > those movies are good.
                        >
                        > 80% figure relates to income from the movies not to number of movies.
                        American
                        > movies are watched all overt the world (whether you like them or not), and
                        even
                        >
                        > in India (serious movie producer) American movies bring more money than
                        Indian
                        > production.
                        >

                        Language has a great quality. It allows one to express his thought or argument
                        precisely. You didnt specify income as a criteria for that 80% figure. I am not
                        a mind reader.

                        > > The rest is absolute garbage. Look at Solaris,
                        > > Americans made a freaking space Titanic out of it.
                        >
                        > OK Solaris may not be the best movie, so what? Make better one, if you can.
                        It
                        > does not change the fact that people all over the world pay money to see
                        > American movies - like them or not - millions other do.

                        I NEVER argued otherwise. Infact I concede that America leads in the mass-
                        production of absolute crap which is consumed on a massive scale by legions of
                        brain-washed idiots. This has never been argued. What is being debated is the
                        intrinsic value of the crap they produce. Americans are leaders in terms of
                        quantity. It is quality that they have not yet been able to produce.


                        >
                        > > Go out on the street in any large American city. Chicago, Philadelphia, Ne
                        > w
                        > > York....You will see that the majority of the people are walking bags of
                        > > blubber and fat. The consumption of fast food, the inactivity rate, etc et
                        > c
                        > > etc
                        >
                        > I guess we were walking on the diferent streets of NY and Philadelphia. Where
                        I
                        >
                        > live slim and fit people are riding bikes in the mornig and playinnng tennis
                        > after work. They swimm in their own pools, live active lives until they are
                        80,
                        >
                        > than retire to their Florida houses and watch sun rising over Atlantic Ocean
                        > until they die in their 100-s.

                        Ahh, a life of an American drone. Indoctrinated and programmed, always a good
                        consumer, dazed and confused by anything that involves the synaptic firinf of
                        those cobwebbed brains of theirs. But let's ignore your little diatribe as we
                        have direct statistical proof that shows without a doubt that America leads the
                        world in terms of inactivity,obesity and are runaway leaders in terms of
                        childhood obesity. These are facts.

                        >
                        > You could have seen America, but you never got out of the getto. Your only
                        > American experience come from the buttom.

                        From the bottom? I have spent a few months travelling and seeing America. I
                        have seen both coasts from the top to the bottom. I have enough experience in
                        that country to form my opinions.

                        > You never spoke with the educated
                        > American, you did not come close to American University, you never played
                        > tennis or golf with you American friends, you never went to American
                        bookstore
                        > or library, you never went to the theater, jazz concert, philharmonics. Only
                        > people you'v seen were loosers as yourself and this is YOUR AMERICA, my is
                        > different.

                        I have been to more than a few american bookstores. But the countless Crichtin
                        or Stephen King novels are not my idea of intellectual fare. You would be
                        surprised what I have done in America. Infact, because I have done as much as I
                        have I believe that my opinions are very accurate.

                        You sound like an american apologist.
                        • Gość: GT Re: nadal twierdze ze polakzkorei nie zna angiels IP: 65.90.124.* 12.01.03, 22:18
                          > Language has a great quality. It allows one to express his thought or
                          > argument precisely. You didnt specify income as a criteria for that 80%
                          > figure. I am not a mind reader.

                          ... it also gives you possibility to ask questions if you don't understand
                          something. It would be helpful to ask such questions before attaking somebody.

                          > I NEVER argued otherwise. Infact I concede that America leads in the mass-
                          > production of absolute crap which is consumed on a massive scale by legions
                          of
                          > brain-washed idiots. This has never been argued. What is being debated is the
                          > intrinsic value of the crap they produce. Americans are leaders in terms of
                          > quantity. It is quality that they have not yet been able to produce.

                          Great, it took a wile but we agreed on something. American movies are the MOST
                          popular (would it be fair compromise statement?)

                          Than you hesitate to admit that it has any value (how could you possibly say
                          that something American is just good) and you procede to declaring MAJORITY OF
                          THE WORLD POPULATION a "brain-washed idiots". Congratulations!!! So according
                          to your philosophy people who like American movies do not deserve to be treated
                          seriously. Why than Bush should pay attention to country like South Korea where
                          American movies top the lists? I know that it's hard to defend idiocy - but for
                          God sake - try at least not to contradict YOURSELF.

                          > Ahh, a life of an American drone. Indoctrinated and programmed, always a good
                          > consumer, dazed and confused by anything that involves the synaptic firinf of
                          > those cobwebbed brains of theirs.

                          I will surprise you again, some of them are University profesors, some doctors,
                          some engineers, but i guess it does not matter to you everybody is an idiot,
                          You must be a very acomplished intellectual - which books did you write? When
                          did you get Nobel price? That much would it take to impress any of my American
                          friends. Otherwise you are delusional... take bus to nearest psych clinic - you
                          should not drive on your own.

                          > But let's ignore your little diatribe as we
                          > have direct statistical proof that shows without a doubt that America leads
                          > the

                          Statistical comparison is not possible for the simple reason that Korea does
                          not provide epidemiological data on obesity. Even such a simple study have not
                          been done.

                          > From the bottom? I have spent a few months travelling and seeing America.

                          Which meen that you lived in cheap motels and drank beer with truck drivers.
                          Did you work in this country, did you buy a house. Did you ever invite Amrican
                          friend to the party?


                          > I have seen both coasts from the top to the bottom. I have enough experience
                          > in that country to form my opinions.

                          I am curious what exatly have you seen from what I hear it wasn't much overall.

                          > I have been to more than a few american bookstores. But the countless
                          > Crichtin or Stephen King novels are not my idea of intellectual fare.

                          It's enough to pass the stuff you don't like nobody expects you to like
                          everything in the bookstore. But what exactly IS your INTELLECTUAL fare. If you
                          could not find your favorite stuff in the average bookstore that could be
                          explained only by laziness or lak of basic skills.

                          > You would be
                          > surprised what I have done in America. Infact, because I have done as much as
                          > I have I believe that my opinions are very accurate.

                          There is not too many things that can surprise or impress me. But you can still
                          try. To me you sound like looser from Jackowo, who thiks that he seen America
                          after trip to Calfornia.

                          > You sound like an american apologist.

                          Wow, you have basic skills in synthetic thinking. Impressive. But, yes I like
                          this country, in contrast to you I know it.
        • Gość: michal_pilot Re: Polak_z_Korei agentem komunistycznym IP: *.rev.o1.com 11.01.03, 22:05
          Jestes albo agentem Koreanskim (polnocnym) albo ich milosnikiem. Ten tekst
          pisany byl pewnie pod dyktando Korei Pln.

          Od ciebie komunistyczna stonko tylko jednego mozna sie spodziewac -
          komunistycznych BZDUR.
          • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Polak_z_Korei agentem komunistycznym IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 12.01.03, 02:44
            Gość portalu: michal_pilot napisał(a):

            > Jestes albo agentem Koreanskim (polnocnym) albo ich milosnikiem. Ten tekst
            > pisany byl pewnie pod dyktando Korei Pln.
            >
            > Od ciebie komunistyczna stonko tylko jednego mozna sie spodziewac -
            > komunistycznych BZDUR.


            Wow, intelektualnie mnie zaskoczyles:) Nie jestem ani Koreanczykiem,Pln czy
            Pld. NIe jestem tez zadnym komuchem. POtrafisz tylko przezywac? Widze ze ty
            jestes zaprogramowanym robocikiem pro-amerykanskim i wszystko co robia jest dla
            ciebie dobre i sprawiedliwe.
    • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: *.ipt.aol.com 11.01.03, 06:07
      ) Even as Washington under George W. Bush demands that other countries meet
      ) various obligations, disavow any nuclear plans and substantially disarm their
      ) conventional forces, the US itself refuses to ratify the nuclear test-ban
      ) treaty, withdraws from various conventions to control missile and chemical
      ) and bacteriological weapons development and deployment, signals its intent to
      ) pursue nuclear hegemony including the domination of space, continues to base
      ) its defence on nuclear weapons (an armoury of an estimated 9,000 of them),
      ) deploys 'conventional weapons' which use the radioactive by-products of
      ) nuclear technology (depleted uranium), and pushes Congress to authorize small
      ) nuclear warheads, known as 'Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator' weapons,
      ) undoubtedly with North Korea's bunkers and underground complexes in mind.

      Tell me which serious modern conflict finished in satisfactory way without
      American involvement. Can you imagine peace in Europe without Americans pulling
      the strigs it never happend before. Just to remind you - Korea exists as a
      country BECAUSE of the Americans defeating Japanese. South Korea continues to
      exist due to American military. Without American soldiers you would wear blue
      dress and eat bark to kill the hunger.

      ) The NKoreans know that America is not a trustworthy partner. NK knows that
      ) America is hell-bent on war, with anyone they can possibly bully into a war.

      What a nonsens.

      ) While America prepares to attack Iraq, which has agreed to just about
      ) everything that Washington has demanded,

      Give me one ETHICAL reason for Saddam to stay in power!

      ) NK knows that it is also in Bush's
      ) crosshairs.

      As should be every country which does not follow nuclear proliferation treaty.

      ) Bush keeps ranting about the need for Kim to be credible. Well,
      ) Bush is not living up to demands that he places on others. The IAEA has found
      ) absolutely nothing. And lets be realistic. Nuclear and bioloogical programs
      ) are not easy to hide.

      That is why Kim REMOVED UN inspectors out of NK????

      ) Rumsfeld has recently asserted that the war in Iraq could be prevented
      ) if "Saddam stepped down." What we see here is American usurping the right to
      ) dictate who rules which country.

      Remind me why Saddam has the right to rule Iraq? persecute oposition, invade
      other countries, torture other people...

      ) Threatening to drop the atom on NK has been an american way of
      ) interaction with our northern neighbors. Even now, it is NK that is more
      ) lilely to be the victim of a nuclear strike. The American track-record is
      ) well known.

      The only thing we know is that US did not use nuclear wepons in Korea -
      everything else is unprovable.

      ) 4. Remember the axis of evil speech? Well guess who is on a list of potential
      ) American nuclear targets. Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya and
      ) Syria. Does NK have reasons to worry?

      I heard about Iraq, Iran and NK, as a part of axis of evil - states looking for
      development and use of the weapons of the mass destruction, Bush did not
      mention other countries nor did he state that US has any nuclear targets - you
      just shamelesly made it up.


      ) NK doesnt need to look to the murders in central Ameica

      Give me names of 10 people murdered by AMERICANS in central America.

      or the middle east

      10 names of people murdered by Americans in middle east

      ) to Vietnam.

      10 names of people murdered by Americans in Vietnam.

      ) It needs only to remember the Korean War. In the first year of
      ) that war, on November 5, 1950, General Douglas MacArthur ordered the
      ) destruction of “every means of communication, every installation, factory,
      ) city and village” in an area stretching from the Yalu River to the battle
      ) line. Over 2,300 gallons of napalm were dropped on Pyongyang in one raid
      ) alone, in July 1952. Mass fire bombings systematically wiped out one town
      ) after another, and US planes also targeted power stations and irrigation dams
      ) that supported rice fields. As irrigation dams were destroyed, villages
      ) downstream were swept away in the resulting floods, inflicting enormous death
      ) and destruction. At various times during the war, the US even considered use
      ) of tactical nuclear weapons.

      And what would be the cost of lack of US ivolvement and NK victory? Can you
      tell me what was the cost of freeing Korea fom Japanese ocupation - sould
      Americans do it or just leave Korea as Japanese colony?



      ) 1. Bush wanted to kill the 1994 deal really badly.

      And you are the man whom Bush told about his wishes... because nobody else
      heard about it.

      ) 2. Remember the so called admission of nuclear weapons in the Korean media
      ) not so long ago? It turned out to be a mistranslation.

      If it was just mistake it would be enough to let UN ispectors in and send a
      sorry card to Bush. NK clearly choose diferent course - that's not a hypothesis
      that's fact.

      ) 3. In 1993 Clinton wanted a war really badly, and the deal that was struck
      ) was not something he welcomed.

      Who really forced him to take it...

      ) Kelly led off the first meeting by ignoring the usual protocol of greetings,
      ) blunting
      ) saying that he had not come to negotiate. Kelly then accused North Korea of
      ) violating the terms of the Agreed Framework by conducting a secret uranium
      ) enrichment program to develop nuclear weapons. Furthermore, he added, there
      ) could be no dialogue between the two nations until this program was
      ) disbanded. According to the North Koreans, Kelly was “very rude” an
      ) dpresented his demands in an “extremely threatening and arrogant manner

      ...and as an answer to Kellys rudness and ignorance of the protocol NK will
      build a nuclear bomb... drop it on Seul and ask Kelly to say sorry... Do you
      have any sense of reality.

      ) Does America care about the South?

      Would South exist without America? Would Korea exist without America? How long
      will South exist if Americans pull out of Korea?

      ) No. America has no intention to listen to
      ) South Korea worries about a possible war.

      I am sorry situation is NOT symmetrical. US can live without Korea - Korea
      wouldn't exist without US.

      ) Clinton proved it. When he was in
      ) power he was going to attack Korea, caring little about what such a war would
      ) mean to South Korea. Total devastation? Who cares!

      Somehow he didn't - was he too lazy or may be he cared. What forced him
      otherwise? If you don't like US in Korea. Fine, US will get out of Korea NOW -
      what it means - total devastation.

      If you use your brain you can say that if US did not care about Korea it would
      pull it's army out South, sell plutonium to NK and than ask premium price on
      missle defence system.

      ) 1. The conflict in U.S.-North Korean relations over the nuclear issue first
      ) arose on January 26, 1993, when President Clinton announced that the U.S
      ) military would conduct war games in South Korea

      If country wants to build nuke because of rudeness of Kelly, they could do it
      because of war games, or may be because of my dog pissed on car NK diplomat.

      ) 2. This was followed the next month by the news that some of the nuclear
      ) weapons previously targeted on the Soviet Union would be redirected at North
      ) Korea.

      If you believe in what you already wrote it should not matter everybody knew
      alresdy that US wanted to nuke NK anyway.

      ) 4. new difficulties soon arose when the International Atomic Energy Agency
      ) (IAEA) insisted on inspecting undeclared nuclear sites in North Korea,
      ) something the agency had never demanded from any other nation.

      Since no other nation has regime as overwhelmingly despotic as NK does. And
      IAEA can easily gather intelligence within other countries. In NK only way of
      conduct can be formal inspections.

      ) 5. Talks bro
      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 11.01.03, 12:23
        Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):
        )
        ) Tell me which serious modern conflict finished in satisfactory way without
        ) American involvement. Can you imagine peace in Europe without Americans
        pulling
        )
        ) the strigs it never happend before.

        You must have watched too much History TV. As a result of swallowing hours of
        propaganda, you actually believe that American involvement in WW2 was somehow
        crucial. If you have time, I suggest that you read about that war. If you do,
        you may find out that over 70% of the German army was infact on the eastern
        front. That ofcourse leaves only 30% of the German army for the other allies to
        take on. Try to read how many divisions germany had in Northern Africa where
        American involvement was less than nil. Americans have the best propaganda
        machine in the world. Not even Goebbels could make the world believe that a
        country that took on maybe 15% of Germany's army actually won the war.
        Normandy? Battles in Russia invilved more troops than the overblown Normandy
        invasion.

        Just to remind you - Korea exists as a
        ) country BECAUSE of the Americans defeating Japanese. South Korea continues to
        ) exist due to American military. Without American soldiers you would wear blue
        ) dress and eat bark to kill the hunger.

        Im not Korean. Another idiot who cant comprehend what he reads.

        )
        ) ) The NKoreans know that America is not a trustworthy partner. NK knows that
        ) ) America is hell-bent on war, with anyone they can possibly bully into a war.
        )
        ) What a nonsens.

        Really? I suggest you research what went down in 1993. Clinton tried to bully
        the president of Korea at that time to put his own country in great jeopardy
        because Clinton and his psychotic hawks needed to fight a war. The current
        escalation on the Korean peninsula is a direct result of America's lies about
        the meeting in October between Kelly and North Koreans, and subsequent steps to
        intensify a crisis. America is pushing for war.
        )
        ) ) While America prepares to attack Iraq, which has agreed to just about
        ) ) everything that Washington has demanded,
        )
        ) Give me one ETHICAL reason for Saddam to stay in power!

        Ethical? Give an ETHICAL reason for Bush to stay in power. Saddam wasnt
        elected? May I remind you that NEITHER WAS BUSH? Saddam Hussein is the leader
        of a SOVEREIGN state. That is all the ethics you need.

        )
        ) ) NK knows that it is also in Bush's
        ) ) crosshairs.
        )
        ) As should be every country which does not follow nuclear proliferation treaty.
        )

        Tell that to India, Israel and Pakistan. Bush needed Pakistan in his little
        war. Never mind that Pakistan NEVER RATIFIED THE TREATY. Bush didnt care did
        he. Does he care about Israel never ratifying it? Why all the noise and alarm
        about NK? Why doesn't Bush hold his allies to the same standard? Because he
        needs them? May I remind you that Pakistan has already threatened to use
        nuclear weapons? Where is the concern about them? Oh yeah, the pathetic war on
        terror.


        ) ) Bush keeps ranting about the need for Kim to be credible. Well,
        ) ) Bush is not living up to demands that he places on others. The IAEA has
        found
        )
        ) ) absolutely nothing. And lets be realistic. Nuclear and bioloogical programs
        ) ) are not easy to hide.
        )
        ) That is why Kim REMOVED UN inspectors out of NK????
        )
        ) ) Rumsfeld has recently asserted that the war in Iraq could be prevented
        ) ) if "Saddam stepped down." What we see here is American usurping the right
        to
        ) ) dictate who rules which country.
        )
        ) Remind me why Saddam has the right to rule Iraq? persecute oposition, invade
        ) other countries, torture other people...
        )

        Because he does. Just as much as Bush. Invade countries? America has invaded
        far more countries than Saddam.

        ) ) Threatening to drop the atom on NK has been an american way of
        ) ) interaction with our northern neighbors. Even now, it is NK that is more
        ) ) lilely to be the victim of a nuclear strike. The American track-record is
        ) ) well known.
        )
        ) The only thing we know is that US did not use nuclear wepons in Korea -
        ) everything else is unprovable.

        Its provable because its documemted. What we do know is that America is the
        only country to use atomic weapons in combat. Twice.

        )
        ) ) 4. Remember the axis of evil speech? Well guess who is on a list of
        potential
        )
        ) ) American nuclear targets. Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya and
        ) ) Syria. Does NK have reasons to worry?
        )
        ) I heard about Iraq, Iran and NK, as a part of axis of evil - states looking
        for
        )
        ) development and use of the weapons of the mass destruction, Bush did not
        ) mention other countries nor did he state that US has any nuclear targets -
        you
        ) just shamelesly made it up.
        )


        No, I did not. But you may believe whatever you wish.

        )
        ) ) NK doesnt need to look to the murders in central Ameica
        )
        ) Give me names of 10 people murdered by AMERICANS in central America.
        )
        ) or the middle east
        )
        ) 10 names of people murdered by Americans in middle east


        Are you serious?:) The involvement of the CIA in Central America has had a
        disastrous effect on that region. Thousands died from american hands and guns.

        )
        ) ) to Vietnam.
        )
        ) 10 names of people murdered by Americans in Vietnam.

        Typical American shit. Forget your genocides. I spit on you.
        )
        ) ) It needs only to remember the Korean War. In the first year of
        ) ) that war, on November 5, 1950, General Douglas MacArthur ordered the
        ) ) destruction of “every means of communication, every installation, facto
        ) ry,
        ) ) city and village” in an area stretching from the Yalu River to the batt
        ) le
        ) ) line. Over 2,300 gallons of napalm were dropped on Pyongyang in one raid
        ) ) alone, in July 1952. Mass fire bombings systematically wiped out one town
        ) ) after another, and US planes also targeted power stations and irrigation
        dams
        )
        ) ) that supported rice fields. As irrigation dams were destroyed, villages
        ) ) downstream were swept away in the resulting floods, inflicting enormous
        death
        )
        ) ) and destruction. At various times during the war, the US even considered
        use
        ) ) of tactical nuclear weapons.
        )
        ) And what would be the cost of lack of US ivolvement and NK victory? Can you
        ) tell me what was the cost of freeing Korea fom Japanese ocupation - sould
        ) Americans do it or just leave Korea as Japanese colony?
        )
        )
        )
        ) ) 1. Bush wanted to kill the 1994 deal really badly.
        )
        ) And you are the man whom Bush told about his wishes... because nobody else
        ) heard about it.

        You can ignore all the facts. Doesn ake them disappear.

        )
        ) ) 2. Remember the so called admission of nuclear weapons in the Korean media
        ) ) not so long ago? It turned out to be a mistranslation.
        )
        ) If it was just mistake it would be enough to let UN ispectors in and send a
        ) sorry card to Bush. NK clearly choose diferent course - that's not a
        hypothesis
        )
        ) that's fact.

        Which sovereign country would permit intrusive humiliating inspections forced
        upon them by a country that wishes nothing less than to destroy it?

        )
        ) ) 3. In 1993 Clinton wanted a war really badly, and the deal that was struck
        ) ) was not something he welcomed.
        )
        ) Who really forced him to take it...

        He had no choice as the Korean army would not have moved a single soldier to
        help them.

        )
        ) ) Kelly led off the first meeting by ignoring the usual protocol of
        greetings,
        ) ) blunting
        ) ) saying that he had not come to negotiate. Kelly then accused North Korea of
        ) ) violating the terms of the Agreed Framework by conducting a secret uranium
        ) ) enrichment program to develop nuclear weapons. Furthermore, he added, there
        ) ) could be no dialogue between the two nations until this program was
        ) ) disbanded. According to the North Koreans, Kelly was “very rude&#
        • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 65.90.124.* 11.01.03, 21:29
          > You must have watched too much History TV. As a result of swallowing hours of
          > propaganda, you actually believe that American involvement in WW2 was somehow
          > crucial.

          Where did I mention WWII involvement in Europe - read what I write that touch
          the keyboard. Can you imagine Europe post WWII, hungry and ruined, facing
          Stalins Red Army. It was American money jump startin European economy, and
          American Army providing security from growing Stalinism.

          > Im not Korean. Another idiot who cant comprehend what he reads.

          Where did I say you are Korean, you live in Korea, so you would do as Koreans
          do.

          > Really? I suggest you research what went down in 1993. Clinton tried to bully
          > the president of Korea at that time to put his own country in great jeopardy
          > because Clinton and his psychotic hawks needed to fight a war. The current
          > escalation on the Korean peninsula is a direct result of America's lies about
          > the meeting in October between Kelly and North Koreans, and subsequent steps
          > to intensify a crisis. America is pushing for war.

          If America wanted war it wouldn't ask anybody. What's the purpose to talk to
          Koreans if you don't care about them. Lies are easy to disprove it's enough to
          open questionable facilities and say - we are right - youlied. Instead NK
          decided to EXPELL UN inspectors and EXIT non-proliferation treaty.

          > Ethical? Give an ETHICAL reason for Bush to stay in power.

          He won election acording to American law, his party decisively won parlamentary
          election as a sign of aproval of his policies, he has sky-high aproval ratings
          among Americans, and if Americans don't like him they will have chance to elect
          somebody else in 2004.

          Is any of above true about Saddam.

          > Saddam wasnt
          > elected? May I remind you that NEITHER WAS BUSH?

          Of course - Bush was elected.

          > Saddam Hussein is the leader
          > of a SOVEREIGN state. That is all the ethics you need.

          So according to your logic any thug, who can usurp power in the country, he
          became thanu ntouchable LEADER OF THE SOUVEREIGN state thus he can kill
          opposition, imprison and torture his population, invade other countries and he
          can COUNT ON YOUR UNQUESTIONING support. Congratulations!!!!

          > Tell that to India, Israel and Pakistan. Bush needed Pakistan in his little
          > war. Never mind that Pakistan NEVER RATIFIED THE TREATY. Bush didnt care did
          > he. Does he care about Israel never ratifying it? Why all the noise and alarm
          > about NK?

          This is called exchange of favors, NK can become democracy as India or Israel,
          or at least friendly ally as Pakistan, than nuclear program will be more
          pallatable (but still not liked) in the US. What moron would think that US will
          ignore nuclear capacity in a country wehemently hostile to US as Korea or Iraq.

          > Because he does. Just as much as Bush. Invade countries? America has invaded
          > far more countries than Saddam.

          What an argument.

          >> Its provable because its documemted. What we do know is that America is the
          > only country to use atomic weapons in combat. Twice.

          Fighting for existence of Korea!!!!!!

          > No, I did not. But you may believe whatever you wish.

          It's not matter of belief - text of the speach is easilly available - you lie
          like a dog.

          > Are you serious?:) The involvement of the CIA in Central America has had a
          > disastrous effect on that region. Thousands died from american hands and guns.

          I guess you don't understand meaning of words you are using. Tell me who was
          actually MURDERED by Americans. It's diferent than argument about CIA
          involvement.

          > Typical American shit. Forget your genocides. I spit on you.

          Again, open dictionary, read the definition of MURDER and GENOCIDE and than
          give me names of the people who were the subject of MURDER or GENOCIDE. Death
          in combat or even unintended causalties due to military action DO NOT fulfill
          the criteria. Besides you can spit until you turn purple - it has no value as
          an argument.

          > Which sovereign country would permit intrusive humiliating inspections forced
          > upon them by a country that wishes nothing less than to destroy it?

          UN is not a country as you most likely know, and the mandate of UN is perfectly
          consistent with prevention of nuclear proliferation. And all other countries
          are subject of UN supervision in this respect - most of them does not percive
          it humiliating - unless they have something to hide.

          > He had no choice as the Korean army would not have moved a single soldier to
          > help them.

          If US is bend on war did it really need help of Korean Army? I wish to see
          Koren Army in action after American withdraw.
          • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 12.01.03, 02:25
            Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

            ) ) You must have watched too much History TV. As a result of swallowing hours
            ) of
            ) ) propaganda, you actually believe that American involvement in WW2 was some
            ) how
            ) ) crucial.
            )
            ) Where did I mention WWII involvement in Europe - read what I write that touch
            ) the keyboard. Can you imagine Europe post WWII, hungry and ruined, facing
            ) Stalins Red Army. It was American money jump startin European economy, and
            ) American Army providing security from growing Stalinism.
            )


            Only right that they helped. I mean they did make boat loads selling arms to
            both sides during the 3 years of sitting it out. Hell, even before the war
            American industrialists were trading on a huge scale with Hitler's Germany, and
            were the #1 foreign arms provider to Adolf.


            ) ) Im not Korean. Another idiot who cant comprehend what he reads.
            )
            ) Where did I say you are Korean, you live in Korea, so you would do as Koreans
            ) do.
            )
            ) ) Really? I suggest you research what went down in 1993. Clinton tried to bu
            ) lly
            ) ) the president of Korea at that time to put his own country in great jeopar
            ) dy
            ) ) because Clinton and his psychotic hawks needed to fight a war. The current
            )
            ) ) escalation on the Korean peninsula is a direct result of America's lies ab
            ) out
            ) ) the meeting in October between Kelly and North Koreans, and subsequent ste
            ) ps
            ) ) to intensify a crisis. America is pushing for war.
            )
            ) If America wanted war it wouldn't ask anybody. What's the purpose to talk to
            ) Koreans if you don't care about them.

            How are you going to launch an invasion if you don't have the support of SK?
            Take a look at the map. The 800 thousand or so very well equipped troops that
            SK has are also crucial in any American plan because it means that America
            doesnt need to somehow find it's own 800 thousand troops and get them to the
            peninsula. And what about tanks, aircraft etc? So you see, America does need SK
            if it plans any invasion of NK.


            Lies are easy to disprove it's enough to
            ) open questionable facilities and say - we are right - youlied. Instead NK
            ) decided to EXPELL UN inspectors and EXIT non-proliferation treaty.
            )

            Here's a question. The IAEA had inspectors at the Yongbyon site. They obviously
            didn't see any nuclear activity. Then Kelly announces that NK has a nuke
            program. Didn't the IAEA inspectors see this program? Either they were
            ineffectual and blind. In this case why is America so angry about them getting
            booted the hell out of NK? On the other hand, they did their job, which means
            that the north had no nuke program, in which case America broke the deal. So
            which is it?


            ) ) Ethical? Give an ETHICAL reason for Bush to stay in power.
            )
            ) He won election acording to American law, his party decisively won
            parlamentary
            )
            ) election as a sign of aproval of his policies, he has sky-high aproval
            ratings
            ) among Americans, and if Americans don't like him they will have chance to
            elect
            )
            ) somebody else in 2004.
            )
            ) Is any of above true about Saddam.
            )

            Yes it is. Saddam is supported by his people, his party is in power and just
            like George, he didnt win an election. There is no difference.

            ) ) Saddam wasnt
            ) ) elected? May I remind you that NEITHER WAS BUSH?
            )
            ) Of course - Bush was elected.

            Bush stole the election down in Florida. His brother was governor of that
            state...hmmmmm
            )
            ) ) Saddam Hussein is the leader
            ) ) of a SOVEREIGN state. That is all the ethics you need.
            )
            ) So according to your logic any thug, who can usurp power in the country, he
            ) became thanu ntouchable LEADER OF THE SOUVEREIGN state thus he can kill
            ) opposition, imprison and torture his population, invade other countries and
            he
            ) can COUNT ON YOUR UNQUESTIONING support. Congratulations!!!!

            According to you any uneducated dumbass thug and marionette of oil interests
            can dictate to any country in the world who can be the leader and who can't?

            )
            ) ) Tell that to India, Israel and Pakistan. Bush needed Pakistan in his littl
            ) e
            ) ) war. Never mind that Pakistan NEVER RATIFIED THE TREATY. Bush didnt care d
            ) id
            ) ) he. Does he care about Israel never ratifying it? Why all the noise and al
            ) arm
            ) ) about NK?
            )
            ) This is called exchange of favors, NK can become democracy as India or
            Israel,
            ) or at least friendly ally as Pakistan, than nuclear program will be more
            ) pallatable (but still not liked) in the US. What moron would think that US
            will
            )
            ) ignore nuclear capacity in a country wehemently hostile to US as Korea or
            Iraq.
            )

            So far it has been America that has been hostile, not Iraq or NK. May I remind
            you that it is AMERICA which is massing troops around Iraq? Or America that is
            threatenenin PRE-EMPTIVE nuclear strikes? Not NK or Iraq.


            ) ) Because he does. Just as much as Bush. Invade countries? America has invad
            ) ed
            ) ) far more countries than Saddam.
            )
            ) What an argument. y

            It was your argument first. Don't we like the truth? It is a FACT that America
            has been the most hostile country of this century. It has invaded its
            neighbors, it has invaded countries far away, it has supported unrest, civil
            wars, murder squads, even terrorism in other countries. Not Saddam, NOT Kin
            JOng Il. America.
            )
            ) )) Its provable because its documemted. What we do know is that America i
            ) s the
            ) ) only country to use atomic weapons in combat. Twice.
            )
            ) Fighting for existence of Korea!!!!!!

            HAHAHA:) Right:) Tell me, how did America fight for Poland when they sold
            Poland out to Stalin?

            )
            ) ) No, I did not. But you may believe whatever you wish.
            )
            ) It's not matter of belief - text of the speach is easilly available - you lie
            ) like a dog.
            )
            ) ) Are you serious?:) The involvement of the CIA in Central America has had a
            )
            ) ) disastrous effect on that region. Thousands died from american hands and g
            ) uns.
            )
            ) I guess you don't understand meaning of words you are using. Tell me who was
            ) actually MURDERED by Americans. It's diferent than argument about CIA
            ) involvement.
            )

            Is it? Without direct American involvement, because the CIA is an official,
            government agency and ergo it is American involvement when they provide
            guns,money and support to killers. CIA has done this for over two centuries in
            countries such as Gwatemala.

            ) ) Typical American shit. Forget your genocides. I spit on you.
            )
            ) Again, open dictionary, read the definition of MURDER and GENOCIDE and than
            ) give me names of the people who were the subject of MURDER or GENOCIDE. Death
            ) in combat or even unintended causalties due to military action DO NOT fulfill
            ) the criteria. Besides you can spit until you turn purple - it has no value as
            ) an argument.

            The intentional murder and singling out of non-military personnel even in the
            act of war is a vile crime, which America has loved to commit time and time
            again. Semantics aside, when America rounds up and murders, rapes and murders,
            burns and gasses towns and villages where they know there is no military
            objective, that to me and any sane, rational and humane person is a vile and
            disgusting crime. In other words, from Korea to Vietnam to Yugoslavia and all
            the central America and African nations in between America has continually
            killed and slaughtered civillians populations on a massive scale. This is
            genocide no matter what your dictionary may or may not say. If not, it is at
            the least cold blooded monstrosity. And this from the self appointed self
            annointed and universally despised "defender of all that is good and
            democratic".

            ) ) He had no choice as the Korean army would not have moved a single soldier
            ) to
            ) ) help them.
            )
            ) If US is bend on war did it really need help of Korean Army? I wish to see
            ) Koren Army in action after American withdraw.
            • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 65.90.124.* 12.01.03, 21:23
              > Only right that they helped.

              And they should be thanked for that.

              > I mean they did make boat loads selling arms to
              > both sides during the 3 years of sitting it out. Hell, even before the war
              > American industrialists were trading on a huge scale with Hitler's Germany,
              > and were the #1 foreign arms provider to Adolf.

              At some point Americans decided not to get involved in the barbarian wars of
              Europe or barbarian wars of Asia. They did not want to use brutal methods of
              total war introduced by Europeana and practiced by Japanese. They wanted to be
              neutral. Americans learned from this mistakes - they get involved earlier
              before tens of milions are death.

              No matter what you say global conflict did not happen as long as Americans
              controll strings of power.

              > How are you going to launch an invasion if you don't have the support of SK?
              > Take a look at the map. The 800 thousand or so very well equipped troops that
              > SK has are also crucial in any American plan because it means that America
              > doesnt need to somehow find it's own 800 thousand troops and get them to the
              > peninsula. And what about tanks, aircraft etc? So you see, America does need
              > SK

              US did not need Koreans to defeat Japan and make Korea free. It would easilly
              manage conflict with NK, 800K Korean troops can be easily replaced by 100K-
              200K Americans.

              > Here's a question. The IAEA had inspectors at the Yongbyon site. They
              > obviously didn't see any nuclear activity.

              That's just one site why shouldn't they have access to others?

              > Then Kelly announces that NK has a nuke
              > program. Didn't the IAEA inspectors see this program? Either they were
              > ineffectual and blind.

              ...or vere restricted form visiting suspicious sites.

              > In this case why is America so angry about them getting
              > booted the hell out of NK? On the other hand, they did their job, which means
              > that the north had no nuke program, in which case America broke the deal. So
              > which is it?

              Because nonproliferation traety which NK signed gives IAEA right to examine the
              nuclear facilities - not only the one which NK whant to show, but also those
              which IAEA deems suspicious.


              > Yes it is. Saddam is supported by his people,

              how do yu know when everybody experssing other thoughte is killed, tortured ar
              imprisoned.

              > his party is in power and just
              > like George, he didnt win an election.

              Nonsense, GWT won the election it was aleready determined, by Supre3me Court,
              numerous recounts, and nobody succesfully chalenged the validity of the
              election. Nobody in his clear mind has questions about it.

              > Bush stole the election down in Florida. His brother was governor of that
              > state...hmmmmm

              His brother was ELECTED nad REELECTED as a governor of Florida. If Americans
              believed your stupid accusations he would be gone by now.

              > According to you any uneducated dumbass thug and marionette of oil interests
              > can dictate to any country in the world who can be the leader and who can't?

              I am sorry to say but Bush is better educated than you are. Besides we are
              discussing Korea and I really do not see connection betweem oil and this
              country. Try to focus your tired brain and stay on topic.

              > So far it has been America that has been hostile, not Iraq or NK. May I
              > remind you that it is AMERICA which is massing troops around Iraq?

              As a consequece of iraq's invasion of Kuwait, did you forget.

              > Or America that is
              > threatenenin PRE-EMPTIVE nuclear strikes? Not NK or Iraq.

              US is not treatening PRE-EMPTIVE nuclear strikes. It treatens strikes in
              respose to use of weapons of mass destruction. Give up your weapons of mass
              destruction and you can sleep well.

              > It was your argument first. Don't we like the truth? It is a FACT that
              America
              > has been the most hostile country of this century. It has invaded its
              > neighbors, it has invaded countries far away, it has supported unrest, civil
              > wars, murder squads, even terrorism in other countries. Not Saddam, NOT Kin
              > JOng Il. America.

              Give me a list of wars, which started by US invasion and compare them with the
              price of NK invasion of SK or Iraq's invasion of Iran or Kuwait.

              > HAHAHA:) Right:) Tell me, how did America fight for Poland when they sold
              > Poland out to Stalin?

              Stay on topic. DID America liberate Korea or not?


              > Is it? Without direct American involvement, because the CIA is an official,
              > government agency and ergo it is American involvement when they provide
              > guns,money and support to killers. CIA has done this for over two centuries
              > in countries such as Gwatemala.

              Is doctor who delivered Hitler responsible for WWII? CIA has right to support
              groups whose goals are consistent with US policy, but is not responsible for
              criminal acts of this organisations. I can pay money to guy who painted my
              house, but I am not responsible for the fact that he uses this money to buy gun
              and kills his wife.

              > The intentional murder and singling out of non-military personnel even in the
              > act of war is a vile crime, which America has loved to commit time and time
              > again.

              America did not start practice of total war. It started in Europe with WWI and
              in Asia with Japanese invasion of China and Korea. Yes US used tactics of total
              war as any other army did in WWII and afterwards. So far US is the ONLY country
              working on improvement of military technology in order to decrease civilian
              causalties.
              • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 13.01.03, 11:10
                Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                ) ) Only right that they helped.
                )
                ) And they should be thanked for that.
                )
                ) ) I mean they did make boat loads selling arms to
                ) ) both sides during the 3 years of sitting it out. Hell, even before the war
                )
                ) ) American industrialists were trading on a huge scale with Hitler's Germany
                ) ,
                ) ) and were the #1 foreign arms provider to Adolf.
                )
                ) At some point Americans decided not to get involved in the barbarian wars of
                ) Europe or barbarian wars of Asia. They did not want to use brutal methods of
                ) total war introduced by Europeana and practiced by Japanese. They wanted to
                be
                ) neutral. Americans learned from this mistakes - they get involved earlier
                ) before tens of milions are death.


                They had no objections to total war when it came time for Vietnam or Korea.
                Then it was "kill anyone that moves".

                )
                ) No matter what you say global conflict did not happen as long as Americans
                ) controll strings of power.
                )
                ) ) How are you going to launch an invasion if you don't have the support of S
                ) K?
                ) ) Take a look at the map. The 800 thousand or so very well equipped troops t
                ) hat
                ) ) SK has are also crucial in any American plan because it means that America
                )
                ) ) doesnt need to somehow find it's own 800 thousand troops and get them to t
                ) he
                ) ) peninsula. And what about tanks, aircraft etc? So you see, America does ne
                ) ed
                ) ) SK
                )
                ) US did not need Koreans to defeat Japan and make Korea free. It would easilly
                ) manage conflict with NK, 800K Korean troops can be easily replaced by 100K-
                ) 200K Americans.
                )


                Americans have stated that against the iraqi army, on flat deserts they will
                need nearly 300 thousand troops. Iraq could mobilize an army of maybe 600
                thousand poorly armed troops. NK has a standing army of 1 million, could
                mobilize another million on short notice. It may be a poot hell hole, but their
                army is heavily armed. Saddam only dreams of this kind of weaponry. Did I
                mention that basically all of Korea, North and South is mountainous? No fast
                tank charges on Pyongyang could happen here.

                ) ) Here's a question. The IAEA had inspectors at the Yongbyon site. They
                ) ) obviously didn't see any nuclear activity.
                )
                ) That's just one site why shouldn't they have access to others?
                )


                Yongbyon is the site that has caused all the controversy. It wasnt opened until
                after the oil was stopped.

                ) ) Then Kelly announces that NK has a nuke
                ) ) program. Didn't the IAEA inspectors see this program? Either they were
                ) ) ineffectual and blind.
                )
                ) ...or vere restricted form visiting suspicious sites.
                )
                ) ) In this case why is America so angry about them getting
                ) ) booted the hell out of NK? On the other hand, they did their job, which me
                ) ans
                ) ) that the north had no nuke program, in which case America broke the deal.
                ) So
                ) ) which is it?
                )
                ) Because nonproliferation traety which NK signed gives IAEA right to examine
                the
                )
                ) nuclear facilities - not only the one which NK whant to show, but also those
                ) which IAEA deems suspicious.
                )


                The same treaty gives NK the right to pull out.If that is not permitted then
                the whole treaty is a big stinking lie.

                )
                ) ) Yes it is. Saddam is supported by his people,
                )
                ) how do yu know when everybody experssing other thoughte is killed, tortured
                ar
                ) imprisoned.
                )
                ) ) his party is in power and just
                ) ) like George, he didnt win an election.
                )
                ) Nonsense, GWT won the election it was aleready determined, by Supre3me Court,
                ) numerous recounts, and nobody succesfully chalenged the validity of the
                ) election. Nobody in his clear mind has questions about it.
                )

                Because no one in america has a clear mind.

                ) ) Bush stole the election down in Florida. His brother was governor of that
                ) ) state...hmmmmm
                )
                ) His brother was ELECTED nad REELECTED as a governor of Florida. If Americans
                ) believed your stupid accusations he would be gone by now.
                )
                ) ) According to you any uneducated dumbass thug and marionette of oil interes
                ) ts
                ) ) can dictate to any country in the world who can be the leader and who can'
                ) t?
                )
                ) I am sorry to say but Bush is better educated than you are. Besides we are
                ) discussing Korea and I really do not see connection betweem oil and this
                ) country. Try to focus your tired brain and stay on topic.
                )

                Listen to him talk. He is unable to string together 2 sentences without a
                barage if "ums" and "ahhs".

                ) ) So far it has been America that has been hostile, not Iraq or NK. May I
                ) ) remind you that it is AMERICA which is massing troops around Iraq?
                )
                ) As a consequece of iraq's invasion of Kuwait, did you forget.
                )

                There was a war as a result of that connection. Afterwards a treaty and
                armistaces were signed. If America goes back on its word how can it expect
                others to keep their word?

                ) ) Or America that is
                ) ) threatenenin PRE-EMPTIVE nuclear strikes? Not NK or Iraq.
                )
                ) US is not treatening PRE-EMPTIVE nuclear strikes. It treatens strikes in
                ) respose to use of weapons of mass destruction. Give up your weapons of mass
                ) destruction and you can sleep well.
                )

                Read more american policy statements.

                ) ) It was your argument first. Don't we like the truth? It is a FACT that
                ) America
                ) ) has been the most hostile country of this century. It has invaded its
                ) ) neighbors, it has invaded countries far away, it has supported unrest, civ
                ) il
                ) ) wars, murder squads, even terrorism in other countries. Not Saddam, NOT Ki
                ) n
                ) ) JOng Il. America.
                )
                ) Give me a list of wars, which started by US invasion and compare them with
                the
                ) price of NK invasion of SK or Iraq's invasion of Iran or Kuwait.
                )
                ) ) HAHAHA:) Right:) Tell me, how did America fight for Poland when they sold
                ) ) Poland out to Stalin?
                )
                ) Stay on topic. DID America liberate Korea or not?
                )

                They didnt liberate the North.

                )
                ) ) Is it? Without direct American involvement, because the CIA is an official
                ) ,
                ) ) government agency and ergo it is American involvement when they provide
                ) ) guns,money and support to killers. CIA has done this for over two centurie
                ) s
                ) ) in countries such as Gwatemala.
                )
                ) Is doctor who delivered Hitler responsible for WWII?

                He would be if he gave Hitler most of his weapons.

                ) CIA has right to support
                ) groups whose goals are consistent with US policy, but is not responsible for
                ) criminal acts of this organisations.

                It is responsible once they see the crimes and continue theor support. As for
                this right, the CIA has zero right to meddle in the affairs of SOVEREIGN states.


                ) I can pay money to guy who painted my
                ) house, but I am not responsible for the fact that he uses this money to buy
                gun
                )
                ) and kills his wife.

                Bullshit. Sorry, but are you really this stupid? America did not give them guns
                so they could paint houses with them. They gave the guns and money for the sole
                purpose of those guns being used.

                )
                ) ) The intentional murder and singling out of non-military personnel even in
                ) the
                ) ) act of war is a vile crime, which America has loved to commit time and tim
                ) e
                ) ) again.
                )
                ) America did not start practice of total war.

                They did perfect it.

                ) It started in Europe with WWI and
                ) in Asia with Japanese invasion of China and Korea. Yes US used tactics of
                total
                )
                ) war as any other army did in WWII and afterwards. So far US is the ONLY
                country
                )
                ) working on improvement of military technology in order to decrease civilian
                ) causalties.

                So far US is the only country starting wars to test new weapons. Iraq will be a
                huge testing ground for new weaponry. Who cares if millions die. They aren't
                americans.
                • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 65.90.124.* 13.01.03, 17:45
                  > They had no objections to total war when it came time for Vietnam or Korea.
                  > Then it was "kill anyone that moves".

                  They learned from the experience of French, German, English, Vietnamese,
                  Koreans Chinese and Japanese. That was the type of war used at that times - and
                  of course Americans got more eficient than most - but who has right to brig
                  >MORAL ground in this matter.

                  > Saddam only dreams of this kind of weaponry. Did I
                  > mention that basically all of Korea, North and South is mountainous? No fast
                  > tank charges on Pyongyang could happen here.

                  The more weapons you have the easier to identify targets for the smart bombs,
                  the more mountains you have the more advantage to airforce and less use from
                  the numbers of infantry.

                  > Yongbyon is the site that has caused all the controversy. It wasnt opened
                  > until

                  No, Amreicans are concerned re CONCEALED nuclear program outside of that
                  reactor.

                  > after the oil was stopped.

                  Why, should great country of Kim be dependent on American oil?


                  > The same treaty gives NK the right to pull out.If that is not permitted then
                  > the whole treaty is a big stinking lie.

                  Fine, they can exit treaty, but than they are losing international protection
                  from nuclear attack. Not to mention that UN could instate economic sanctions.

                  > Because no one in america has a clear mind.

                  You know what, give me the list of people who do have clear mined. It must be
                  quite short.

                  > Listen to him talk. He is unable to string together 2 sentences without a
                  > barage if "ums" and "ahhs".

                  He is not an actor he is decision maker.

                  > There was a war as a result of that connection. Afterwards a treaty and
                  > armistaces were signed. If America goes back on its word how can it expect
                  > others to keep their word?

                  Armistice required Saddam to destroy weapons of mass destruction, balistic
                  missiles, to be subject to the inspections, respect no-fly zones. Instead
                  Saddam USED weapons of mass destructions, continued to develop missile program,
                  expelled inspectors, did not respect no-fly zones. What else do you needt o
                  reverse armistice agrement. Americans did not have ANY obligations as per
                  armistice agreement - they WON.

                  > Read more american policy statements.

                  Actually I do - show me where it's writen I newer seen it.

                  > They didnt liberate the North.

                  Which mean they DID liberate South. Where is your gratitude!!!

                  > He would be if he gave Hitler most of his weapons.

                  At which point - in 1936 when Hitler was democratically elected Chancelor of
                  Reich? Who could have known?

                  > Bullshit. Sorry, but are you really this stupid? America did not give them
                  > guns so they could paint houses with them. They gave the guns and money for
                  > the sole purpose of those guns being used.

                  Shure, but guns can be used for sensible purpose - fighting usurpers like
                  Sandinistas or communist terrorists in Salvador or Guatemala. Yes may be some
                  of this guns were abused for kiling civilians, but show me that THIS was the
                  purpose of CIA.

                  > ) America did not start practice of total war.
                  >
                  > They did perfect it.

                  But who is to throw the stone.

                  > So far US is the only country starting wars to test new weapons. Iraq will be
                  > a huge testing ground for new weaponry. Who cares if millions die.

                  The new weapons will be tested but this is not the REASON for the war. You
                  don't seem to understand the rules of causalty. The only people who will die
                  are those who want to sacrifice their lives for Saddam - the rest can rise they
                  hands - nobody will hurt them. There is no significant risk of MILIONS dying in
                  this war. And let me remind you that each year tens of thousands Iraquis die in
                  Saddams prisons. This war CAN stop it - but you don't really care about dirty
                  Iraquis - they are idiots anyway.
                  • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 219.240.32.* 14.01.03, 11:18
                    Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                    > > They had no objections to total war when it came time for Vietnam or Korea
                    > .
                    > > Then it was "kill anyone that moves".
                    >
                    > They learned from the experience of French, German, English, Vietnamese,
                    > Koreans Chinese and Japanese. That was the type of war used at that times -
                    and
                    >
                    > of course Americans got more eficient than most - but who has right to brig
                    > >MORAL ground in this matter.
                    >

                    There are no morals in war? For monsters such as America, Pol Pot, Hitler or
                    Mao there are none.


                    > > Saddam only dreams of this kind of weaponry. Did I
                    > > mention that basically all of Korea, North and South is mountainous? No fa
                    > st
                    > > tank charges on Pyongyang could happen here.
                    >
                    > The more weapons you have the easier to identify targets for the smart bombs,
                    > the more mountains you have the more advantage to airforce and less use from
                    > the numbers of infantry.


                    Korean artillery is dug deep into mountains, hard to take out with smart bombs.
                    The Korean army is the 4th largest standing army, is one of the most heavily
                    armed and is heavily indoctrinated. Air strikes dont win wars. Period. Amercans
                    would have to fight a long infantry war in high mountains that are even bigger
                    than the Sudety in Poland.

                    >
                    > > Yongbyon is the site that has caused all the controversy. It wasnt opened
                    > > until
                    >
                    > No, Amreicans are concerned re CONCEALED nuclear program outside of that
                    > reactor.

                    So why all the hoopla about Yongbyon?

                    >
                    > > after the oil was stopped.
                    >
                    > Why, should great country of Kim be dependent on American oil?
                    >

                    Because America has done a great job of isilating them from the world.

                    >
                    > > The same treaty gives NK the right to pull out.If that is not permitted th
                    > en
                    > > the whole treaty is a big stinking lie.
                    >
                    > Fine, they can exit treaty, but than they are losing international protection
                    > from nuclear attack. Not to mention that UN could instate economic sanctions.
                    >


                    That would depend on China and Russia. Its probably not too likely that they
                    will sanction NK.

                    > > Because no one in america has a clear mind.
                    >
                    > You know what, give me the list of people who do have clear mined. It must be
                    > quite short.
                    >

                    Here it is:



                    satisfied?

                    > > Listen to him talk. He is unable to string together 2 sentences without a
                    > > barage if "ums" and "ahhs".
                    >
                    > He is not an actor he is decision maker.

                    He is not intelligent either. I am not an actor nor am I a decision maker. Nor
                    is English my first language, yet my level of fluency is astonishingly high,
                    higher than that of 99% of native English speakers. I didnt get a bullshit yale
                    diploma from my daddy either.

                    >
                    > > There was a war as a result of that connection. Afterwards a treaty and
                    > > armistaces were signed. If America goes back on its word how can it expect
                    >
                    > > others to keep their word?
                    >
                    > Armistice required Saddam to destroy weapons of mass destruction, balistic
                    > missiles, to be subject to the inspections, respect no-fly zones. Instead
                    > Saddam USED weapons of mass destructions, continued to develop missile
                    program,
                    >
                    > expelled inspectors, did not respect no-fly zones. What else do you needt o
                    > reverse armistice agrement. Americans did not have ANY obligations as per
                    > armistice agreement - they WON.

                    None of this has been proven.You are aware of that, are you not? If Saddam has
                    these terrible weapons then America must produce evidence to the UN. Endless
                    barking from idiots like Rumsfeld or Blair-the-American-ass crakck-licker are
                    not evidence of anything but their boundless idiocy.

                    > > Read more american policy statements.
                    >
                    > Actually I do - show me where it's writen I newer seen it.
                    >
                    > > They didnt liberate the North.
                    >
                    > Which mean they DID liberate South. Where is your gratitude!!!

                    My gratitude ends when they do everything to sabotage the safety, nay, the
                    existance of my place of residence.

                    >
                    > > He would be if he gave Hitler most of his weapons.
                    >
                    > At which point - in 1936 when Hitler was democratically elected Chancelor of
                    > Reich? Who could have known?

                    Anyone who read his book, who listened to his speeches. He didnt win the
                    elections on a pacifist platform.


                    >
                    > > Bullshit. Sorry, but are you really this stupid? America did not give them
                    >
                    > > guns so they could paint houses with them. They gave the guns and money fo
                    > r
                    > > the sole purpose of those guns being used.
                    >
                    > Shure, but guns can be used for sensible purpose - fighting usurpers like
                    > Sandinistas or communist terrorists in Salvador or Guatemala. Yes may be some
                    > of this guns were abused for kiling civilians, but show me that THIS was the
                    > purpose of CIA.

                    I cant prove what people intended. Sure, lets trust the innate goodness of the
                    CIA. They are all such good folks. Give me a break. I can prove intent
                    afterall. CIA knew full well what these guns were being used for, how they were
                    being used. They continued to support murderers. This shows that they agreed
                    with the conduct of those whom they supplied.

                    >
                    > > ) America did not start practice of total war.
                    > >
                    > > They did perfect it.
                    >
                    > But who is to throw the stone.
                    >
                    > > So far US is the only country starting wars to test new weapons. Iraq will
                    > be
                    > > a huge testing ground for new weaponry. Who cares if millions die.
                    >
                    > The new weapons will be tested but this is not the REASON for the war.

                    No. The # reason is oil. #2 is a personal grudge that Bush Sr. and Jr. have. #3
                    would be this one. All those dropped bombs will have tobe replaced by your
                    local weapons people.

                    > You
                    > don't seem to understand the rules of causalty. The only people who will die
                    > are those who want to sacrifice their lives for Saddam - the rest can rise
                    they
                    >
                    > hands - nobody will hurt them.

                    Bush to Kurds (after the first war):"Rise up and we will help you". They did
                    and he didnt.

                    > There is no significant risk of MILIONS dying in
                    >
                    > this war. And let me remind you that each year tens of thousands Iraquis die
                    in
                    >
                    > Saddams prisons. This war CAN stop it - but you don't really care about dirty
                    > Iraquis - they are idiots anyway.
                    • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 65.90.124.* 14.01.03, 15:37
                      > There are no morals in war? For monsters such as America, Pol Pot, Hitler or
                      > Mao there are none.

                      Of course there are morals, but it was Germans, French, English, Japanese,
                      Chinese, Koreans who started to deny it. What Americans can do is to adjust
                      it's tactics to be efective against unscrupulous enemy. Othervise it's morals
                      will be preached on the graveyards only.

                      > Korean artillery is dug deep into mountains, hard to take out with smart
                      > bombs.

                      That what Afghans were thinking - for a week or two.

                      > The Korean army is the 4th largest standing army, is one of the most heavily
                      > armed and is heavily indoctrinated.

                      As was Yugosloaw army - the only army to succesfully fight Hitler.

                      Air strikes dont win wars. Period.

                      Except for: Gulf War, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan...

                      > Amercans would have to fight a long infantry war in high mountains that are
                      > even bigger than the Sudety in Poland.

                      They are puny compared to Hindukush which did not help either.

                      > So why all the hoopla about Yongbyon?

                      Nobody cares, about this place. What conuts are the nuclear weapons.

                      > Because America has done a great job of isilating them from the world.

                      If the world wanted to deal with NK why would America matter?

                      > That would depend on China and Russia. Its probably not too likely that they
                      > will sanction NK.

                      Quite frankly US may let them deal with the problem. Building missile defense
                      may be more cost efective than dealing with the adolescent fits of the South.
                      US can also save on maintaining bases and it's soldiers in this far corner of
                      Asia. I guess Koreans deserve new master for a change.

                      > > You know what, give me the list of people who do have clear mined. It must
                      > be
                      > > quite short.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Here it is:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > satisfied?

                      Sometimes I wonder why I keep talkin to you. You must be quite satisfied with
                      your inner voices wispering to your ear.
                      > I am not an actor nor am I a decision maker. Nor
                      > is English my first language, yet my level of fluency is astonishingly high,
                      > higher than that of 99% of native English speakers.

                      That qualifies you to be a secretary.

                      > I didnt get a bullshit yale diploma from my daddy either.

                      Which diploma did you get?


                      > None of this has been proven.

                      Use of gas in Basra, in Kurdistan.

                      > You are aware of that, are you not? If Saddam has
                      > these terrible weapons then America must produce evidence to the UN.

                      False. Previous inspections detected presence of weapons of mass destruction.
                      Acording to UN resolution Saddam has to prove that he destroyed them.

                      > My gratitude ends when they do everything to sabotage the safety, nay, the
                      > existance of my place of residence.

                      They will be happy to leave this Got forgoten corner of Asia. And let Russia
                      and China deal with the mess they created. South also deserves new master, for
                      a change.

                      > Anyone who read his book, who listened to his speeches. He didnt win the
                      > elections on a pacifist platform.

                      But pacyfists demonstarted AGAINST disturbing him even in 1939 when he invaded
                      Poland. Saddam and Kim count on you.

                      > I cant prove what people intended.

                      But you speak as if you could.

                      > I can prove intent
                      > afterall. CIA knew full well what these guns were being used for, how they
                      > were being used. They continued to support murderers. This shows that they
                      > agreed with the conduct of those whom they supplied.

                      Even if I accept this twisted logic, you have to show me that alternative:
                      lettnig communist to win was better that what was done. Moral choices are
                      pertinent only to real situations not abstract rules.
                      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 219.240.31.* 15.01.03, 00:51
                        Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                        > > There are no morals in war? For monsters such as America, Pol Pot, Hitler
                        > or
                        > > Mao there are none.
                        >
                        > Of course there are morals, but it was Germans, French, English, Japanese,
                        > Chinese, Koreans who started to deny it. What Americans can do is to adjust
                        > it's tactics to be efective against unscrupulous enemy. Othervise it's morals
                        > will be preached on the graveyards only.
                        >
                        > > Korean artillery is dug deep into mountains, hard to take out with smart
                        > > bombs.
                        >
                        > That what Afghans were thinking - for a week or two.
                        >
                        > > The Korean army is the 4th largest standing army, is one of the most heavi
                        > ly
                        > > armed and is heavily indoctrinated.
                        >
                        > As was Yugosloaw army - the only army to succesfully fight Hitler.
                        >
                        > Air strikes dont win wars. Period.
                        >
                        > Except for: Gulf War, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan...

                        Afghanistan? The Taliban army was a puny army. They had no heavy artillery.
                        They were armed with rifles. How many "soldiers" did they have? The fact is
                        that they had a small band of fighters, not 1 million well trained and heavily
                        armed soldiers. Infact, if you put the armies of afghanistan, iraq and
                        yugoslavia together, they probably dont add up to half of what North Korea has
                        in terms of manpower and 1/10 of what NK has in terms of heavy artillery and
                        weaponry.


                        >
                        > > Amercans would have to fight a long infantry war in high mountains that ar
                        > e
                        > > even bigger than the Sudety in Poland.
                        >
                        > They are puny compared to Hindukush which did not help either.
                        >


                        dont compare a few thousand fighters with rifles to a million man army armed
                        with heavy artillery, tanks, airforce and navy. To do so only exposes your
                        stupidity.


                        > > So why all the hoopla about Yongbyon?
                        >
                        > Nobody cares, about this place. What conuts are the nuclear weapons.
                        >
                        > > Because America has done a great job of isilating them from the world.
                        >
                        > If the world wanted to deal with NK why would America matter?
                        >
                        > > That would depend on China and Russia. Its probably not too likely that th
                        > ey
                        > > will sanction NK.
                        >
                        > Quite frankly US may let them deal with the problem. Building missile defense
                        > may be more cost efective than dealing with the adolescent fits of the South.
                        > US can also save on maintaining bases and it's soldiers in this far corner of
                        > Asia. I guess Koreans deserve new master for a change.
                        >
                        > > > You know what, give me the list of people who do have clear mined. It
                        > must
                        > > be
                        > > > quite short.
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > Here it is:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > satisfied?
                        >
                        > Sometimes I wonder why I keep talkin to you. You must be quite satisfied with
                        > your inner voices wispering to your ear.
                        > > I am not an actor nor am I a decision maker. Nor
                        > > is English my first language, yet my level of fluency is astonishingly hig
                        > h,
                        > > higher than that of 99% of native English speakers.
                        >
                        > That qualifies you to be a secretary.
                        >
                        > > I didnt get a bullshit yale diploma from my daddy either.
                        >
                        > Which diploma did you get?
                        >
                        >
                        > > None of this has been proven.
                        >
                        > Use of gas in Basra, in Kurdistan.

                        No different than the use of gas in Vietnam. Again,you have to work hard to
                        show me attrocities committed by Saddam that werent commited earlier by America.

                        >
                        > > You are aware of that, are you not? If Saddam has
                        > > these terrible weapons then America must produce evidence to the UN.
                        >
                        > False. Previous inspections detected presence of weapons of mass destruction.
                        > Acording to UN resolution Saddam has to prove that he destroyed them.

                        In other words, he has to prove what isnt there. That will be almost
                        impossible. The fact is that in America's courts, one does not need to prove
                        one's guilt.

                        >
                        > > My gratitude ends when they do everything to sabotage the safety, nay, the
                        >
                        > > existance of my place of residence.
                        >
                        > They will be happy to leave this Got forgoten corner of Asia. And let Russia
                        > and China deal with the mess they created. South also deserves new master,
                        for
                        > a change.
                        >
                        > > Anyone who read his book, who listened to his speeches. He didnt win the
                        > > elections on a pacifist platform.
                        >
                        > But pacyfists demonstarted AGAINST disturbing him even in 1939 when he
                        invaded
                        > Poland. Saddam and Kim count on you.
                        >
                        > > I cant prove what people intended.
                        >
                        > But you speak as if you could.
                        >
                        > > I can prove intent
                        > > afterall. CIA knew full well what these guns were being used for, how they
                        >
                        > > were being used. They continued to support murderers. This shows that they
                        >
                        > > agreed with the conduct of those whom they supplied.
                        >
                        > Even if I accept this twisted logic, you have to show me that alternative:
                        > lettnig communist to win was better that what was done. Moral choices are
                        > pertinent only to real situations not abstract rules.

                        Twisted logic? Continuing to support murderers when one is fully aware of their
                        murders constitutes consent and approval in any court. Its what is called being
                        an accessory to murder in America's criminal courts. As for communism being
                        immoral, that is absolute garbage. It is far less immoral than the murder of
                        children in the name of ridiculous ideologies.
                        • Gość: NK Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 65.90.124.* 15.01.03, 01:12
                          > dont compare a few thousand fighters with rifles to a million man army armed
                          > with heavy artillery, tanks, airforce and navy. To do so only exposes your
                          > stupidity.

                          You convinced me. I got scared. US should just pull out and let two great
                          Korean Armies face each other. Have fun.

                          > No different than the use of gas in Vietnam.

                          US did not use chemical weapons in Vietnam.

                          > Again,you have to work hard to
                          > show me attrocities committed by Saddam that werent commited earlier by
                          > America.

                          How many people were arested by Americans for political reasons, how many were
                          tortured for oposing American government, how many political parties were
                          delegalized in US. How many times US used chemical weapons on its own citizens.
                          How many wars did US start. How many people were killed by US for expressing
                          their ideas. How many UN resolutions did US break...

                          > In other words, he has to prove what isnt there. That will be almost
                          > impossible. The fact is that in America's courts, one does not need to prove
                          > one's guilt.

                          Nonsens, weponized germs and chemical warheads are not a potatoes, and each
                          army has precise protocols of acounting for them and documenting their
                          destruction. This kind of information should be easily awailable if he did what
                          he suposed to do.


                          > Twisted logic? Continuing to support murderers when one is fully aware of
                          > their murders constitutes consent and approval in any court. Its what is
                          > called being an accessory to murder in America's criminal courts.

                          So far no criminal court found US accesory to murder, despite of many trials.

                          > As for communism being immoral, that is absolute garbage. It is far less
                          > immoral than the murder of
                          > children in the name of ridiculous ideologies.

                          You must be kidding, CONSERVATIVE estimate of the cost of communism is 80 mln -
                          the most criminal ideology in the history of the world. If the choice is betwem
                          killing hundreds vs hundreds of thousands the choice of lesser evil is clearly
                          moral choice.
                          • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 219.240.31.* 15.01.03, 01:31
                            Gość portalu: NK napisał(a):

                            > > dont compare a few thousand fighters with rifles to a million man army arm
                            > ed
                            > > with heavy artillery, tanks, airforce and navy. To do so only exposes your
                            >
                            > > stupidity.
                            >
                            > You convinced me. I got scared. US should just pull out and let two great
                            > Korean Armies face each other. Have fun.

                            This was a response to an absurd assertion that a few air strikes will defeat
                            NK.


                            >
                            > > No different than the use of gas in Vietnam.
                            >
                            > US did not use chemical weapons in Vietnam.
                            >

                            Agent Orange was used by the american airforce in Vietnam. It is a chemical
                            herbicide, and when used as a weapon it becomes a chemical weapon. Infact,
                            there were about 15 different herbicides used as weapons in Vietnam.

                            PURPLE: A formulation of 2,4,-D and 2,4,5,-T used between 1962 and 1964.

                            GREEN: Contained 2,4,5-T and was used 1962-1964.

                            PINK: Contained 2,4,5-T and was used 1962-1964.

                            ORANGE: A formulation of 2,4,-D and 2,4,5-T used between 1965 and 1970.

                            WHITE: A formulation of Picloram and 2,4,-D.

                            BLUE: Contained cacodylic acid.

                            ORANGE II: A formualtion of 2,4,-D and 2,4,5-T used in 1968 and 1969 (also
                            sometimes referred to as "Super Orange")

                            DINOXOL: A formulation of 2,4,-D and 2,4,,5-T. Small quantities were tested in
                            Vietnam between 1962 and 1964.

                            TRINOXOL: Contained 2,4,5-T. Small quantities tested in Vietnam 1962-1964.

                            BROMACIL
                            DIQUAT:
                            TANDEX:
                            MONURON:
                            DIURON:
                            DALAPON:

                            A map of sprayings in Vietnam: www.lewispublishing.com/map1.htm
                            This map is a representation of herbicide spray missions in Vietnam. The dark
                            areas represent concentrated spraying areas. This map only represents fixed-
                            wing aricraft spraying, and does not include helicopter spraying of perimeters,
                            or other spray methods.
                            The III Corps area received the heaviest concentations of spraying, followed by
                            I Corps, II Corps and IV Corps.

                            > > Again,you have to work hard to
                            > > show me attrocities committed by Saddam that werent commited earlier by
                            > > America.
                            >
                            > How many people were arested by Americans for political reasons, how many
                            were
                            > tortured for oposing American government, how many political parties were
                            > delegalized in US. How many times US used chemical weapons on its own
                            citizens.
                            >

                            During the McCarthy era many were arrested or ruined for poliyical reasons.
                            During Vietnam many were arrested for opposing the war. Many parties were
                            banned, one that comes directly to mind is the communist party. The US used
                            chamical weapons on its own soldiers in tests that were no better than Hitler's.

                            > How many wars did US start.

                            Several. It started wars with Mexico, Spain. It started wars with native
                            americans, killing in excess of 40 million.


                            > How many people were killed by US for expressing
                            > their ideas. How many UN resolutions did US break...

                            We dont know how many, but Id bet quite a few were killed for expressing their
                            views.

                            >
                            > > In other words, he has to prove what isnt there. That will be almost
                            > > impossible. The fact is that in America's courts, one does not need to pro
                            > ve
                            > > one's guilt.
                            >
                            > Nonsens, weponized germs and chemical warheads are not a potatoes, and each
                            > army has precise protocols of acounting for them and documenting their
                            > destruction. This kind of information should be easily awailable if he did
                            what
                            >
                            > he suposed to do.
                            >
                            >
                            > > Twisted logic? Continuing to support murderers when one is fully aware of
                            > > their murders constitutes consent and approval in any court. Its what is
                            > > called being an accessory to murder in America's criminal courts.
                            >
                            > So far no criminal court found US accesory to murder, despite of many trials.
                            >
                            > > As for communism being immoral, that is absolute garbage. It is far less
                            > > immoral than the murder of
                            > > children in the name of ridiculous ideologies.
                            >
                            > You must be kidding, CONSERVATIVE estimate of the cost of communism is 80
                            mln -
                            >
                            > the most criminal ideology in the history of the world. If the choice is
                            betwem
                            >
                            > killing hundreds vs hundreds of thousands the choice of lesser evil is
                            clearly
                            > moral choice.

                            Most just after America's murderous ideology.
                            • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 65.90.124.* 15.01.03, 18:33
                              > This was a response to an absurd assertion that a few air strikes will defeat
                              > NK.

                              What problem do you have with 30 thousand of Americans leaving, when SK has
                              such a great Army, and US can't match NK army anyway.

                              > Agent Orange was used by the american airforce in Vietnam.

                              You are redefining chemical weapon. Weapons are uses to kill people not to kill
                              leaves. This kin of redefing habit can make stone chemical weapon - it's
                              combination of atoms CHEMICALLY bound together - but at least you can kill
                              person with the stone as oposed to Agent Orange.

                              > During the McCarthy era many were arrested or ruined for poliyical reasons.
                              > During Vietnam many were arrested for opposing the war. Many parties were
                              > banned, one that comes directly to mind is the communist party.

                              There is nothing immoral in banning party actively supporting most murderous
                              ideology in the history - NAZI party was delegalized in all cywilized
                              countries - communist were even worse.

                              > The US used
                              > chamical weapons on its own soldiers in tests that were no better than
                              > Hitler's

                              OK it made couple small, poorly designed experiments, but did not use chemical
                              weapons with intention to kill it's enemies like Germans or French did.

                              > Several. It started wars with Mexico, Spain.

                              Even if I believe you that US started, which is highly questionable - humnan of
                              these wars was minimal. Cost war with Spain is less than 5000 people, war with
                              Mexico ended with less than 500 cousalties.

                              > It started wars with native
                              > americans, killing in excess of 40 million.

                              That's pure uneducated nonsens. By archeologinal cata Population of Native
                              Americans on the current territory of US was 10 mln at the end of XV century.
                              At the time of establishing US population was 2 mln (majority of Indians in US
                              died) before seing any white face from diseases transmited by Spaniards.
                              Current population of Native Americans is 3 amd is the fastest growing minority
                              in US.

                              Yes there were displacements of Native Americans, and small scale wars, but you
                              count causalties of Indian wars in thousands not in milions. Not to mention
                              totally fantastic number of 40 mln.

                              > We dont know how many, but Id bet quite a few were killed for expressing
                              > their views.

                              Let's accept the fact that you have no clue. (which obviously does not stop you
                              from expressing you ignorance)

                              > Most just after America's murderous ideology.

                              I choose, California over Kolyma, you certainly can choose diferent way, just
                              choose with your own life not with lifes of other people.
                              • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 01:36
                                Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                                > > This was a response to an absurd assertion that a few air strikes will def
                                > eat
                                > > NK.
                                >
                                > What problem do you have with 30 thousand of Americans leaving, when SK has
                                > such a great Army, and US can't match NK army anyway.
                                >
                                > > Agent Orange was used by the american airforce in Vietnam.
                                >
                                > You are redefining chemical weapon. Weapons are uses to kill people not to
                                kill
                                >
                                > leaves. This kin of redefing habit can make stone chemical weapon - it's
                                > combination of atoms CHEMICALLY bound together - but at least you can kill
                                > person with the stone as oposed to Agent Orange.

                                Fine, go out now, buy some AO and dump it on yourself. Dont worry,it only kills
                                leaves. What an absurd statement yoi have just proposed. Remember, Nazis didnt
                                kill any jews. They only used rat poison in those gas chambers.

                                Current Conditions Considered by VA Presumptive to AO Exposure:
                                These are the diseases which VA currently presumes resulted from exposure to
                                herbicides like Agent Orange. The law requires that some of these diseases be
                                at least 10% disabling under VA's rating regulations within a deadline that
                                began to run the day you left Vietnam. If there is a deadline, it is listed in
                                parentheses after the name of the disease.
                                Chloracne or other acneform disease consistent with chloracne. (Must occur
                                within one year of exposure to Agent Orange).

                                Hodgkin's disease.

                                Multiple myeloma.

                                Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma

                                Acute and subacute peripheral neuropathy. (For purposes of this section, the
                                term acute and subacute peripheral neuropathy means temporary peripheral
                                neuropathy that appears within weeks or months of exposure to an herbicide
                                agent and resolves within two years of the date of onset.)

                                Porphyria cutanea tarda. (Must occur within one year of exposure to Agent
                                Orange).
                                Prostate cancer.

                                Respiratory cancers (cancer of the lung, bronchus, larynx, or trachea).

                                Soft-tissue sarcoma (other than osteosarcoma, chondrosarcoma, Kaposi's sarcoma,
                                or mesothelioma).

                                >
                                > > During the McCarthy era many were arrested or ruined for poliyical reasons
                                > .
                                > > During Vietnam many were arrested for opposing the war. Many parties were
                                > > banned, one that comes directly to mind is the communist party.
                                >
                                > There is nothing immoral in banning party actively supporting most murderous
                                > ideology in the history - NAZI party was delegalized in all cywilized
                                > countries - communist were even worse.


                                He said no party was banned. I just gave him an example that came to mind right
                                away.

                                As for human rights abuses,lets talk about internment camps for Asians during
                                WW2. Nazi style camps for people guilty of nothing but looking like the enemy.
                                Let's talk about the slaughter of natives, use of nazi style reservations for
                                native people. The American made genocide of the native american far outdid
                                anything Hitler even imagined.

                                >
                                > > The US used
                                > > chamical weapons on its own soldiers in tests that were no better than
                                > > Hitler's
                                >
                                > OK it made couple small, poorly designed experiments, but did not use
                                chemical
                                > weapons with intention to kill it's enemies like Germans or French did.
                                >


                                Again, the many kinds of chemicals sprayed in Vietnam certainly did kill
                                people.

                                > > Several. It started wars with Mexico, Spain.
                                >
                                > Even if I believe you that US started, which is highly questionable - humnan
                                of
                                >
                                > these wars was minimal. Cost war with Spain is less than 5000 people, war
                                with
                                > Mexico ended with less than 500 cousalties.
                                >
                                > > It started wars with native
                                > > americans, killing in excess of 40 million.
                                >
                                > That's pure uneducated nonsens. By archeologinal cata Population of Native
                                > Americans on the current territory of US was 10 mln at the end of XV century.
                                > At the time of establishing US population was 2 mln (majority of Indians in
                                US
                                > died) before seing any white face from diseases transmited by Spaniards.
                                > Current population of Native Americans is 3 amd is the fastest growing
                                minority
                                >
                                > in US.
                                >

                                What absolute idiocy. You are denying then the scale of the destruction of the
                                native population, the scale of land theft, the nazi style imprisonment of
                                natives in human zoos? It was all the spaniards, the americans only wanted good
                                for the "noble savage". Right?


                                And how could I have forgotten the most famous of all american attrocities.
                                Slavery. How many millions died as slaves to rich americans?

                                > Yes there were displacements of Native Americans, and small scale wars, but
                                you
                                >
                                > count causalties of Indian wars in thousands not in milions. Not to mention
                                > totally fantastic number of 40 mln.
                                >

                                So americans killed a few thousand natives. Right. You are a sick liar.




                                The USA often pretends to be the expert for democracy and human rights, "the
                                brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world" (G.W.Bush). But
                                after the wars of annihilation against the Native Americans and slavery of
                                abducted Africans (19th century), apartheid & lynching (20th century) we find
                                Natives in poor reservations, death penalty even against teenagers and still
                                discrimminated black people are the main victims. Nobody stereotypes all
                                Americans, in a violent dollarcracy people of all races can be victims of gun
                                crimes, gangs like Scientology, new blacklists and McCarthyism, have the choice
                                between two old parties, money decides who can be candidate (Enron) and not all
                                votes are counted (Florida). Worldwide we find much negative US influence,
                                e.g. many cruel interventions esp. in Latin America, CIA support for brutal
                                dictators (e.g. Chile, Saudi Arabia, Philippines, Indonesia), horrible war
                                atrocities like in Hiroshima or Vietnam, waste of human resources by an
                                ignorant climate policy of the White House. The nation that produces most
                                emissions rejects the Kyoto agreement against global warming. But politicians
                                in Washington are very fond of "teaching lessons to the world" as they call
                                it. "Bad guys" like Noriega, Saddam Hussein or even the Taliban were US allies.
                                US money dynasties earned much money by dealing with the Nazis and enriched
                                themselves by both world wars and even the Marshall plan. Now horrible
                                terrorist attacks are answered with a war in Afghanistan that kills even more
                                innocent people and has no effects on prevention of terrorism. International
                                law like the Convention of Geneva or treaties against biological weapons are
                                ignored in the times of new "patriotism".

                                • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 20:45
                                  > Remember, Nazis didnt
                                  > kill any jews. They only used rat poison in those gas chambers.

                                  With the purpse to kill jews. Any questions about it.

                                  > Current Conditions Considered by VA Presumptive to AO Exposure:

                                  Potential and presumed side efect do not make it chemical WEAPON. It was not
                                  used to kill people.


                                  > He said no party was banned. I just gave him an example that came to mind
                                  > right away.

                                  No, he did not, he asked the question how many. And this is the ONLY example
                                  you could come up with - how does it compare to Saddam who banned majority of
                                  parties even remotely criticizing his rule.

                                  > As for human rights abuses,lets talk about internment camps for Asians during
                                  > WW2. Nazi style camps for people guilty of nothing but looking like the
                                  > enemy.

                                  International law prowides possibility for interment of nationals of the
                                  country which is in the state of active war. There was no executions not to
                                  mention gas chambers in this camps. Your comparison with Nazis is ridiculous.

                                  Even if the practice of internment was widespresd among all countries
                                  participating in WWII US is the only country which ruled that such treatment
                                  was not consistent with AMERICAN IDEALS and decided to pay reparations to
                                  interened Japanese.

                                  > Let's talk about the slaughter of natives, use of nazi style reservations for
                                  > native people. The American made genocide of the native american far outdid
                                  > anything Hitler even imagined.

                                  That's totally bogus statemnet with no connection to reality. Reservations are
                                  not prisons, but areas autonomously ruled by Native Americans under federal
                                  protection. People can come in and out of reservations at will.


                                  > What absolute idiocy. You are denying then the scale of the destruction of
                                  > the
                                  > native population, the scale of land theft, the nazi style imprisonment of
                                  > natives in human zoos? It was all the spaniards, the americans only wanted
                                  > good
                                  >
                                  > for the "noble savage". Right?

                                  Nither I said that it was only Spaniards - they had no understanding of
                                  infectious diseases and majority of Native Americans died without direct
                                  contact with them, spreading disease from one tribe to the other. Nor did I say
                                  that Americans did only good things to the Natives. Simply it's clear to me
                                  that you have no knowledge of history nor intelectual capacity to understand
                                  CAUSALTY. You mindlesly repeat propaganda without trying to read about or
                                  understand real events.


                                  > So americans killed a few thousand natives. Right. You are a sick liar.

                                  Direct human price of wars with wite settlers and displacements is in a range
                                  of 50-100 000. If you add extermination of buffalo - barely could count as
                                  intentional - you can get to 300-400 000. Far cry from milions of your
                                  imaginations.

                                  > The USA often pretends to be the expert for democracy and human rights, "the
                                  > brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world" (G.W.Bush).

                                  Year after year milions of people emigrating to this country and hundreds of
                                  milions dreaming about it confirm that this statement is true (or close to
                                  that).

                                  > Natives in poor reservations,

                                  Average income of Native Americans is $20000 per year, close to national
                                  average, far above incomes of 90% of world population.

                                  • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 17.01.03, 00:57
                                    Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                                    > > Remember, Nazis didnt
                                    > > kill any jews. They only used rat poison in those gas chambers.
                                    >
                                    > With the purpse to kill jews. Any questions about it.

                                    Napalm was used to kill people.

                                    >
                                    > > Current Conditions Considered by VA Presumptive to AO Exposure:
                                    >
                                    > Potential and presumed side efect do not make it chemical WEAPON. It was not
                                    > used to kill people.
                                    >

                                    Go dump someNaplm on yourself. Using such deadly chemicals on populated regions
                                    has the purpose of killing.

                                    >
                                    > > He said no party was banned. I just gave him an example that came to mind
                                    > > right away.
                                    >
                                    > No, he did not, he asked the question how many. And this is the ONLY example
                                    > you could come up with - how does it compare to Saddam who banned majority of
                                    > parties even remotely criticizing his rule.
                                    >

                                    It is the one I came up with without doing further research.

                                    > > As for human rights abuses,lets talk about internment camps for Asians dur
                                    > ing
                                    > > WW2. Nazi style camps for people guilty of nothing but looking like the
                                    > > enemy.
                                    >
                                    > International law prowides possibility for interment of nationals of the
                                    > country which is in the state of active war. There was no executions not to
                                    > mention gas chambers in this camps. Your comparison with Nazis is ridiculous.
                                    >
                                    > Even if the practice of internment was widespresd among all countries
                                    > participating in WWII US is the only country which ruled that such treatment
                                    > was not consistent with AMERICAN IDEALS and decided to pay reparations to
                                    > interened Japanese.
                                    >

                                    American ideals. Well shown in Panama, Guatemala, Cambodia, Vietnam, Korea...
                                    the ideals of murder and greed.

                                    > > Let's talk about the slaughter of natives, use of nazi style reservations
                                    > for
                                    > > native people. The American made genocide of the native american far outdi
                                    > d
                                    > > anything Hitler even imagined.
                                    >
                                    > That's totally bogus statemnet with no connection to reality. Reservations
                                    are
                                    > not prisons, but areas autonomously ruled by Native Americans under federal
                                    > protection. People can come in and out of reservations at will.
                                    >

                                    The natives had it so good on reservations. They loved having land stolen,
                                    culture destroyed and their way of life anhilated.


                                    The rest of your post is a bunch of lies.
                                    • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 65.90.124.* 17.01.03, 23:57
                                      > Napalm was used to kill people.

                                      It still does not make it CHEMICAL weapon, napalm kill by thermal injury not by
                                      it's toxicity - if you clasify napalm as chemical weapon than every explosive
                                      is a cmical weapon.

                                      > American ideals. Well shown in Panama, Guatemala, Cambodia, Vietnam, Korea...
                                      > the ideals of murder and greed.

                                      I would suggest to stay on topic if you want discuss with me - you have anoing
                                      habit of changing the topic when you run out ouf arguments. Do you have
                                      something to say on internment of Japanese?


                                      > The natives had it so good on reservations.

                                      Some do some don't. As always in America a lot of contrasts there. There are
                                      tribe with avareage personal income of $300 000/year there are some with $3000.

                                      > They loved having land stolen,
                                      > culture destroyed and their way of life anhilated.

                                      Of course they don't, they talk of they grand history just like Poles of their
                                      Golden Age. But old grudges aside many of them asimilated into mainstream
                                      society, other benefit from privileges (casinos) granted to tribes, some try to
                                      preserve theit old ways, but became anachronistic (by Natives own standatrts)
                                      like 2 cow farms in Poland. History cant be stopped and contrary to your
                                      fantasies Native Americans do not want to be the scansen of Old West. Of course
                                      all Native experience (painful at time as it was) does not make them comparable
                                      with Jews during holocaust.
                                      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 18.01.03, 03:17
                                        Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                                        > > Napalm was used to kill people.
                                        >
                                        > It still does not make it CHEMICAL weapon, napalm kill by thermal injury not
                                        by
                                        >
                                        > it's toxicity - if you clasify napalm as chemical weapon than every explosive
                                        > is a cmical weapon.
                                        >


                                        What you are doing is latching onto semantics. Napalm is a chemical that was
                                        used as a weapon. That makes it close enough to a chemicl weapon in my book.
                                        What makes it worse is that Napalm was used on non-combatants. Its
                                        indiscrimnate use was evil.

                                        > > American ideals. Well shown in Panama, Guatemala, Cambodia, Vietnam, Korea
                                        > ...
                                        > > the ideals of murder and greed.
                                        >
                                        > I would suggest to stay on topic if you want discuss with me - you have
                                        anoing
                                        > habit of changing the topic when you run out ouf arguments. Do you have
                                        > something to say on internment of Japanese?

                                        It was a racist campaign. Pure and simple. Amaerica interned its own citizens.
                                        My use of the internment example was in response to an absurd assertion that
                                        America never mistreated its own people. To make matters even worse, America
                                        kidnapped Japanese people from other countries, such as Peru, and put them in
                                        their concentration camps.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > The natives had it so good on reservations.
                                        >
                                        > Some do some don't. As always in America a lot of contrasts there. There are
                                        > tribe with avareage personal income of $300 000/year there are some with
                                        $3000.

                                        What you espouse are the typical american values. Its all about the green,
                                        jack. RIGHT? No amount of money will make up for the systematic destruction of
                                        lives and cultures by the American governmen post-independence from England.
                                        Stolen land, destroyed cultures, humiliated people. No amount of money will
                                        restore the dignity of the Indian people, because they have been humiliated and
                                        subjegated. No amount of casinos will make up for the fact that for centuries,
                                        Indians have been treated like animals. You say that there is good in that?
                                        WHERE?


                                        >
                                        > > They loved having land stolen,
                                        > > culture destroyed and their way of life anhilated.
                                        >
                                        > Of course they don't, they talk of they grand history just like Poles of
                                        their
                                        > Golden Age. But old grudges aside many of them asimilated into mainstream
                                        > society, other benefit from privileges (casinos) granted to tribes, some try
                                        to
                                        >
                                        > preserve theit old ways, but became anachronistic (by Natives own standatrts)
                                        > like 2 cow farms in Poland. History cant be stopped and contrary to your
                                        > fantasies Native Americans do not want to be the scansen of Old West. Of
                                        course
                                        >
                                        > all Native experience (painful at time as it was) does not make them
                                        comparable
                                        >
                                        > with Jews during holocaust.

                                        What about SLAVERY? I have brought up the issue many times, yet you avoid it.
                                        Willmoney make up for the horros unleashed on blacks by America?
                          • Gość: haloperidol chemical weapons in Vietnam. IP: *.visp.energis.pl 16.01.03, 14:09
                            Gość portalu: NK napisał(a):



                            > US did not use chemical weapons in Vietnam.

                            Really ? Have you heard about :
                            Tear Agent 2(CN)
                            Tear Agent O(CS)
                            Psychedelic Agent 3(BZ) ???????????????

                            www.stimson.org/cbw/?sn=CB2001121891
    • Gość: hawk Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: proxy / *.vc.shawcable.net 11.01.03, 08:23
      NIe zazdroscie! Bo Polak-Koreanczyk potrafi madrze dyskutowac, i widzi sprawy
      ktorych wielu z nas nie jest w stanie widziec. I nie myslmy iz Korea to taki
      biedny kraj, jeden z moich znajomych dostal nowiutenkiego Porsche na Boze
      Narodzenie od ojca, a kto to byl myslicie? Amerykanin? Nie - Koreanczyk.
      Zpytajmy raczej naszego rodaka zza Oceanu Spokojnego jakim Mercedesikiem tam
      sie rozbija?
      • Gość: felusiak Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: *.nyc.rr.com 11.01.03, 08:37
        Zaczyna sie od schizofrenii. Potem przeradza sie to w paranoje i juz mamy
        sytuacje, ze dany osobnik widzi rzeczy, ktorych zaden z nas nie jest w stanie
        zobaczyc.
        • Gość: Tysprowda Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: proxy / 217.33.71.* 11.01.03, 11:39
          Felusiak, czy ty wiesz, ze intnieja argumenty w dyskusji, nie tylko prymitywne
          wysmiewanie sie i ponizanie oponenta?
          Tego chyba nawet w Ameryce ucza, a ty to jakos przespales, a moze nie dorosles
          do tego?
          • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 11.01.03, 12:27
            Gość portalu: Tysprowda napisał(a):

            > Felusiak, czy ty wiesz, ze intnieja argumenty w dyskusji, nie tylko
            prymitywne
            > wysmiewanie sie i ponizanie oponenta?
            > Tego chyba nawet w Ameryce ucza, a ty to jakos przespales, a moze nie
            dorosles
            > do tego?

            W ameryce niczego nie ucza. No moze jak byc dobrym obywatelem: nie kwestionowac
            busha i kupowac jak najwiecej.
            • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: 65.90.124.* 11.01.03, 21:55
              > W ameryce niczego nie ucza. No moze jak byc dobrym obywatelem: nie
              > kwestionowac busha i kupowac jak najwiecej.

              Ameryka slynie z symboli nieuctwa jak Harvard, Princeton, Berkeley, Yale...

              Amerykanie dostaja rocznie wiecej nagrod Nobla, niz pozostale kraje wciagu
              calej swej historii, ale to chyba z powodu otylosci.

              Juz nie wspome o tym, ze jakis Amerykanin w swoim otepieniu wymyslil, ze mozna
              uzywac kawalka krzemu do przetwarzania informacji, po czym inny idiota dodal do
              tego wymyslony przez siebie monitor, tepak dolozyl wymyslona przez siebie
              klawiature i we wspolpracy z debilem, ktory napisal oprogramowanie zbudowali
              maszyne przy pomocy ktorej wszyscy madrzy ludzie na swiecie moga opluwac
              Ameryke na Internecie.

              • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 12.01.03, 02:28
                Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                > > W ameryce niczego nie ucza. No moze jak byc dobrym obywatelem: nie
                > > kwestionowac busha i kupowac jak najwiecej.
                >
                > Ameryka slynie z symboli nieuctwa jak Harvard, Princeton, Berkeley, Yale...
                >
                > Amerykanie dostaja rocznie wiecej nagrod Nobla, niz pozostale kraje wciagu
                > calej swej historii, ale to chyba z powodu otylosci.

                Sprawdz ilu z tych amerykanskich noblistow przyjechalo pozno w zyciu do ameryki
                z jakiegos innego kraju. Ameryka ma pieniazki, kupuje sobie najlepszych
                naukowcow. Ameryka ich nie produkuje.

                >
                > Juz nie wspome o tym, ze jakis Amerykanin w swoim otepieniu wymyslil, ze
                mozna
                > uzywac kawalka krzemu do przetwarzania informacji, po czym inny idiota dodal
                do
                >
                > tego wymyslony przez siebie monitor, tepak dolozyl wymyslona przez siebie
                > klawiature i we wspolpracy z debilem, ktory napisal oprogramowanie zbudowali
                > maszyne przy pomocy ktorej wszyscy madrzy ludzie na swiecie moga opluwac
                > Ameryke na Internecie.
                >
                >

                Kurde,i co z tego? Mowimy o narodzie jako o calosci a nie o paru madrych
                facetach. Wiekszosc amerykanow to kompletne intelektualne dno. I sa spasieni na
                maksa.
                • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: 65.90.124.* 12.01.03, 21:45
                  > Sprawdz ilu z tych amerykanskich noblistow przyjechalo pozno w zyciu do
                  > ameryki z jakiegos innego kraju. Ameryka ma pieniazki, kupuje sobie
                  > najlepszych naukowcow. Ameryka ich nie produkuje.

                  Znowu nonsens. Po pierwsze ludzie przyjezdzaja do US dlatego, ze ich zycie
                  staje sie lepsze - robotnicy zarabiaja wiecej, mieszkaja w lepszych domach,
                  naukowcy maja lepsze warunki pracy, wiecej wolnosci. Wielu po prostu przyjezdza
                  uciekajac przed barbazynstwem i przesladowaniem w swoich krajach. Calkiem
                  idiotycznie probujesz sprowadzic wszystko do pieniedzy. Arabia placi jeszcze
                  wiecej dla importowanych naukowcow, ale jakos nie produkuje przelomow naukowych.

                  Po drugie tu niczyje pochodzenie nie ma znaczenia, Amerykaninem kazdy staje sie
                  z WYBORU. Jezeli najwieksze mozgi swiata postanowiaja spedzic W US swoje zycie -
                  to o czym to swiadczy? ...o glupocie Amerykanow??

                  > Kurde,i co z tego? Mowimy o narodzie jako o calosci a nie o paru madrych
                  > facetach. Wiekszosc amerykanow to kompletne intelektualne dno. I sa spasieni
                  > na maksa.

                  Twoja nienawisc do otylosci troche Cie zaslepia. Na tym polega zaawansowana
                  ekonomia, ze jedni buduja komputery a inni zamiataja ulice, jednego nie da sie
                  odizolowac od drugiego - to jest sila Ameryki. Nawet idioci sa tu produktywi i
                  SZANOWANI. Inaczej WSZYSCY sadzili by ryz i lowili ryby jak to mialo miejsce w
                  Korei zanim pojawili sie Amerykanie.

                  Jakos Twoja wysoka kultura nie nauczyla Cie powszechnego w Ameryce zwyczaju
                  szanowania KAZDEGO czlowieka.
          • Gość: felusiak Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: *.nyc.rr.com 11.01.03, 18:20
            Szkoda tylko ze nie dostrzegasz, ze zaden racjonalny argument nie jest w
            stanie przekonac polakazkorei. W odpowiedzi od niego mozna przeczytac, ze
            jest sie tlustym, napchanym hamburgerami niedoukiem. On wszystko wie. Obraz
            swiata jaki sobie w swojej wyobrazni zbudowal jest jedynie sluszny i
            niepodwazalny. Taki dogmatyczny swiatopoglad o ktory oskarza wszystkich,
            ktorzy mu nie wtoruja. Swoje onformacje czerpie on z internetu
            www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=44&ItemID=2749
            i innych temu podobnych, lewicowo-konpiratorskich zrodel.

            jedyna przyczyna dla ktorej zabralem glos w tym watku bylo zakwestionowanie
            jego znajomosci jezyka angielskiego. Przyznam, ze sie pomylilem. Jestem jednak
            gleboko przekonany, ze polakzkorei jest zwyklym, mlodym zarozumialcem.
            Dyskusja z nim jest bezprzedmiotowa. On uwaza wszystkich za polglowkow.
            I dobrze mu tak.
            • Gość: michal_pilot Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: *.rev.o1.com 11.01.03, 22:16
              > Obraz
              > swiata jaki sobie w swojej wyobrazni zbudowal jest jedynie sluszny i
              > niepodwazalny. Taki dogmatyczny swiatopoglad o ktory oskarza wszystkich,
              > ktorzy mu nie wtoruja.

              Nic dodac nic ujac. To albo mlody zarozumialec albo stary PZPR-owiec. Tylko co
              on u licha robi w Korei Pld. ? Jego miejece jest obok Wielkiego Wodza - 100 km
              na polnoc.
            • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 12.01.03, 02:34
              Gość portalu: felusiak napisał(a):

              > Szkoda tylko ze nie dostrzegasz, ze zaden racjonalny argument nie jest w
              > stanie przekonac polakazkorei. W odpowiedzi od niego mozna przeczytac, ze
              > jest sie tlustym, napchanym hamburgerami niedoukiem. On wszystko wie. Obraz
              > swiata jaki sobie w swojej wyobrazni zbudowal jest jedynie sluszny i
              > niepodwazalny. Taki dogmatyczny swiatopoglad o ktory oskarza wszystkich,
              > ktorzy mu nie wtoruja. Swoje onformacje czerpie on z internetu
              > <a href="www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?
              SectionID=44&ItemID=2749"t
              > arget="_blank">www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?
              SectionID=44&ItemID=2749</a
              > >
              > i innych temu podobnych, lewicowo-konpiratorskich zrodel.
              >
              > jedyna przyczyna dla ktorej zabralem glos w tym watku bylo zakwestionowanie
              > jego znajomosci jezyka angielskiego. Przyznam, ze sie pomylilem. Jestem
              jednak
              > gleboko przekonany, ze polakzkorei jest zwyklym, mlodym zarozumialcem.
              > Dyskusja z nim jest bezprzedmiotowa. On uwaza wszystkich za polglowkow.
              > I dobrze mu tak.


              Czlowieku, bo chyba jestes jeszcze czlowiekiem a nie zaprogramowanym robocikiem
              pro-krzakowski. Moj "wizerunek swiata" to logiczne spojrzenie i oszacowanie
              tego co sie w tym swiecie dzieje. Nie bylo masowych morderstw w Wietnamie i
              Koreii? Nie bylo morderstw sponsorowanych przez CIA w centralnej Ameryce? Co
              powiesz o sytuacji w Iraku? Bush ma swoje osobiste sprawy (Saddam chcial
              zamordowac starszego busza i synus chce zamordowac Sadama..no jest jeszcze
              olej). A co powiesz o Koreii? Bo to jest tak: Albo oni naprawde mieli program,
              czego nie zauwazyli inspektorzy IAEA. Wtedy to potwierdza ze ta instytucja jest
              debilna i niefektowna.ALBO sa efektowni..tylko ze wedy Kelly klamal a Bush
              zlamal umowe.
              • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: *.ipt.aol.com 13.01.03, 03:14
                > Bo to jest tak: Albo oni naprawde mieli program,
                > czego nie zauwazyli inspektorzy IAEA. Wtedy to potwierdza ze ta instytucja
                > jest debilna i niefektowna.ALBO sa efektowni..tylko ze wedy Kelly klamal a
                > Bush zlamal umowe.

                Dobre pytanie, niech dopuszcza inspektorow zeby mogli to sprawdzic.
      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 11.01.03, 12:38
        Gość portalu: hawk napisał(a):

        > NIe zazdroscie! Bo Polak-Koreanczyk potrafi madrze dyskutowac, i widzi sprawy
        > ktorych wielu z nas nie jest w stanie widziec. I nie myslmy iz Korea to taki
        > biedny kraj, jeden z moich znajomych dostal nowiutenkiego Porsche na Boze
        > Narodzenie od ojca, a kto to byl myslicie? Amerykanin? Nie - Koreanczyk.
        > Zpytajmy raczej naszego rodaka zza Oceanu Spokojnego jakim Mercedesikiem tam
        > sie rozbija?


        Korea to dosyc bogaty kraj. Wystarczy wejsc na strone CIA i porownac Polske i
        Koree. Zarabia sie tu trzykrotnie wiecej.Korea jest liderem swiata pod wzgledem
        uzytkownikow internetu. Korea ma swietnie znane i sprzedajace sie marki
        samochodowe, elektroniczne. etc etc etc. Korea biedna?:) hahah. Wcale nie jest
        biedniejsza niz nawet Ameryka.
        • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: 65.90.124.* 11.01.03, 22:04
          > Korea to dosyc bogaty kraj. Wystarczy wejsc na strone CIA i porownac Polske i
          > Koree. Zarabia sie tu trzykrotnie wiecej.Korea jest liderem swiata pod
          > wzgledem


          Nikt rozsadny nie kwestionuje tego, ze Korea podobnie jak i inne kraje
          wyzwolone i uksztaltowane przez Amerykanow jest przyzwoitym panstwem.

          > Korea ma swietnie znane i sprzedajace sie marki
          > samochodowe, elektroniczne. etc etc etc.

          I jak wszyscy wiedza, samochod zostal wynaleziony w Korei, podobnie jak
          tranzystory, i microprocesory. Gdzie bylaby gospodarka Korei bez Amerykanskich
          wynalazkow, dostepu do Amerykanskich patentow... Wstyd sie przyznac, ale
          wszystko co Korea produkuje nie istnialoby bez Amerykanskich otylych nieukow,
          ktorzy to wymyslili!!!! Trudno jest sie wzbogacic sadzac ryz i lowiac ryby.

          Korea biedna?:) hahah. Wcale nie jest
          > biedniejsza niz nawet Ameryka.

          I dobrze, nikt tego Korei nie zazdrosci. Jezeli jednak Korea zacznie placic za
          swoja obrone, rzeczy moga byc nieco inne. Powodzenia zycze.
          • Gość: michal_pilot Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: *.rev.o1.com 11.01.03, 22:10
            GT: to nie argumenty na poziom Polaka_w_Koreii. To komunista i wielbiciel
            Wielkiego Wodza z Polnocy. On uwielbia takich co pija koniaki za $600 butelka
            (Hennesey Paradise), maja 5 willi po calym swiecie, jezdza Mercedesami S-class
            a reszta narodu trawe wcina i zyje w obozie koncentracyjnym.
            • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 12.01.03, 02:42
              Gość portalu: michal_pilot napisał(a):

              > GT: to nie argumenty na poziom Polaka_w_Koreii. To komunista i wielbiciel
              > Wielkiego Wodza z Polnocy. On uwielbia takich co pija koniaki za $600 butelka
              > (Hennesey Paradise), maja 5 willi po calym swiecie, jezdza Mercedesami S-
              class
              > a reszta narodu trawe wcina i zyje w obozie koncentracyjnym.


              Jestes naprawde jakis nienormalny. Kazdy komu nie podobaja sie przestepctwa
              ameryki jest komuchem?? A jak nie lubi sie busza to znaczy ze uwielbia sie tego
              drugiego kretyna kima? Czlowieku, oni obaj sa siebie warci.
              • pl.adex Re Bush sucks 12.01.03, 02:51
                I fully agree with you Bush and co sucks!!!!
                • Gość: GT Re: Re Bush sucks IP: *.ipt.aol.com 13.01.03, 03:16
                  pl.adex napisała:

                  > I fully agree with you Bush and co sucks!!!!

                  Dlaczego?
          • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 12.01.03, 02:38
            Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

            > > Korea to dosyc bogaty kraj. Wystarczy wejsc na strone CIA i porownac Polsk
            > e i
            > > Koree. Zarabia sie tu trzykrotnie wiecej.Korea jest liderem swiata pod
            > > wzgledem
            >
            >
            > Nikt rozsadny nie kwestionuje tego, ze Korea podobnie jak i inne kraje
            > wyzwolone i uksztaltowane przez Amerykanow jest przyzwoitym panstwem.
            >
            > > Korea ma swietnie znane i sprzedajace sie marki
            > > samochodowe, elektroniczne. etc etc etc.
            >
            > I jak wszyscy wiedza, samochod zostal wynaleziony w Korei, podobnie jak
            > tranzystory, i microprocesory. Gdzie bylaby gospodarka Korei bez
            Amerykanskich
            > wynalazkow, dostepu do Amerykanskich patentow... Wstyd sie przyznac, ale
            > wszystko co Korea produkuje nie istnialoby bez Amerykanskich otylych nieukow,
            > ktorzy to wymyslili!!!! Trudno jest sie wzbogacic sadzac ryz i lowiac ryby.
            >

            JASNE! Wiadomo ze wszystko co powstalo na tym swiecie to dzieki Ameryca. Takie
            samochody swietnie by sie poruszaly bez kol...bo ameryka nie wynalazla kola. A
            cala amerykanska technika swietnie by sie miala bez nauki, matematyki etc ktora
            wynalezli przeciez Europejczyscy i azjaci.

            • Gość: felusiak Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: *.nyc.rr.com 12.01.03, 05:11
              Nie pomylilem sie. Jestes polakuzkorei mlodym zarozumialcem.
              Pragne rowniez doniesc, ze nowoczesna matematyka jest spadkiem po Arabach a
              nie europejczykach i azjatach. Arabowie jako jedyni zrozumieli koncepcje zera
              i to dalo podstawy do rozwoju tej nauki.
              Doradzam goraco sprawdzenie w slowniku co oznacza wyraz efektowny a co
              efektywny.

              Zachodnioeuropejski i poludniowo-azjatycki model gospodarczy, tak efektywny
              i przynoszacy dobrobyt swoim obywatelom pochodzi z USA podobnie jak glowny i
              najwazniejszy przedmiot amerykanskiego eksportu czyli niekontrolowany przeplyw
              informacji.
              Bez USA swiat zamienilby sie w chaotyczny zbior dyktatur, no moze poza kilkoma
              panstwami Europy Zachodniej. Oczywiscie internetu bez USA nie byloby nie
              dlatego, ze jest to amerykanska inwencja lecz dlatego, ze wszyscy rzadzacy
              chca kontrolowac rzadzonych az do bolu.
              • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: 211.190.156.* 12.01.03, 06:57
                Gość portalu: felusiak napisaŠŠ(a):

                > Nie pomylilem sie. Jestes polakuzkorei mlodym zarozumialcem.

                Zarozumialcem? Ktos taki jak ja, o wyzszym poziomie intelektualnym niz ty lub
                twoi kumple, ma obowiazek was czegos nauczyc. Ale to wcale nie znacze ze jestem
                zarozumialcem.

                A wogole jestem Polakiem W Koreii nie z koreii.

                > Pragne rowniez doniesc, ze nowoczesna matematyka jest spadkiem po Arabach a
                > nie europejczykach i azjatach. Arabowie jako jedyni zrozumieli koncepcje zera
                > i to dalo podstawy do rozwoju tej nauki.

                No coz, obojetnie po kim. Napewno nie jest wynalazkiem amerykanskim. A wiesz
                dzieki komu amerykanie polecieli sobie na ksiezyc? Dzieki niemcom, a dokladnie
                nazistom.

                > Doradzam goraco sprawdzenie w slowniku co oznacza wyraz efektowny a co
                > efektywny.

                >
                > Zachodnioeuropejski i poludniowo-azjatycki model gospodarczy, tak efektywny
                > i przynoszacy dobrobyt swoim obywatelom pochodzi z USA podobnie jak glowny i
                > najwazniejszy przedmiot amerykanskiego eksportu czyli niekontrolowany
                przeplyw
                > informacji.
                > Bez USA swiat zamienilby sie w chaotyczny zbior dyktatur, no moze poza
                kilkoma
                > panstwami Europy Zachodniej. Oczywiscie internetu bez USA nie byloby nie
                > dlatego, ze jest to amerykanska inwencja lecz dlatego, ze wszyscy rzadzacy
                > chca kontrolowac rzadzonych az do bolu.


                Czlowieku, bez USA sadze ze ten swiat bylby sto razy lepszy. Nie byloby tej
                tandetnej kulturki amerykanskiej.
                • Gość: hawk Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: proxy / *.vc.shawcable.net 12.01.03, 07:18

                  felusiak napisal;
                  Zaczyna sie od schizofrenii. Potem przeradza sie to w paranoje i juz mamy
                  sytuacje, ze dany osobnik widzi rzeczy, ktorych zaden z nas nie jest w stanie
                  zobaczyc.

                  Widzisz Ty tam mieszkasz w samym centrum Ameryki. Wybacz, ale New York -
                  dzungla jakich malo, i poprostu za tymi drapaczami chmur nie widzisz za bardzo
                  co sie dzieje w Ameryce, a Polak-Koreanczyk, jest dosc daleko, a z daleka
                  lepiej widac, on ma caly obraz przed soba, a Ty tylko czesc tego obrazu.



                  • Gość: felusiak do hawka IP: *.nyc.rr.com 12.01.03, 15:02
                    To zastanawiajace co napisales, gdyz jeszcze nie ujawnilem swojej wiedzy o
                    Ameryce ani o tym co moim zdaniem sie w niej dzieje. Skad zatem czerpiesz
                    przekonanie, ze polakzkorei wie wiecej z daleka niz ja z bliska skoro nie
                    wiesz co ja wiem.
                    Dalej idac polakzkorei napisal, ze jego poziom intelektualny jest wyzszy od
                    mojego i ma on obowiazek mnie czegos nauczyc. Takie zdanie moze wyjsc tylko
                    spod piora maloletniego gowniarza, krory pozbawiony jest wyczucia dobrego tonu
                    w dyskusji.
                    Kiedy wytknalem mu blad historyczny, nie potrafil sie poprostu przyznac. Zbyl
                    to powiedzeniem "niewazne". To przypieczetowalo moje przekonanie ze jednak
                    jest nieopierzonym gowniarzem. Co do jego poziomu intelektualnego, no coz
                    spieralbym sie. A ten artykulik po angielsku, ktory rozpoczal ten watek roi
                    sie od niedomowien, pominiec i klamstw.
                    Wszystko to mozliwe jest dzieki tej tandetnej, amerykanskiej kulturce ktora
                    pozwala aby kazdy imbecyl pieprzyl niesamowite glupoty. Nie tylko pozwala ale
                    takze chroni takie dyrdymaly swoja konstytucja.
                    • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: do hawka IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 12.01.03, 17:11
                      Gość portalu: felusiak napisał(a):

                      > To zastanawiajace co napisales, gdyz jeszcze nie ujawnilem swojej wiedzy o
                      > Ameryce ani o tym co moim zdaniem sie w niej dzieje. Skad zatem czerpiesz
                      > przekonanie, ze polakzkorei wie wiecej z daleka niz ja z bliska skoro nie
                      > wiesz co ja wiem.
                      > Dalej idac polakzkorei napisal, ze jego poziom intelektualny jest wyzszy od
                      > mojego i ma on obowiazek mnie czegos nauczyc. Takie zdanie moze wyjsc tylko
                      > spod piora maloletniego gowniarza, krory pozbawiony jest wyczucia dobrego
                      tonu
                      > w dyskusji.

                      Sadzac po twoich wypowiedziach mialem racje, a realistyczne spojrzenie na
                      sytuacje to raczej nie cecha maloletniego gowniarza. My tu nie dyskutujemy. Nie
                      chce tu wyjsc na zarozumialego, ale profesor ze studentem nie dyskutuje. Ja wam
                      daje wyklad abyscie sie czegos nauczyli. Niestety samodzielnego myslenia nie
                      mozna nauczyc a twoj mozg jest juz niezle wyprany. Oj trudna robota mnie czeka,
                      trudna.


                      > Kiedy wytknalem mu blad historyczny, nie potrafil sie poprostu przyznac. Zbyl
                      > to powiedzeniem "niewazne".

                      Przyznaje sie.Nawet Ja nie jestem nieomylny. Dobra, byl blad, ale czy az taki
                      wazny? Bo mialem racje ze amerykanie nie wymyslili matematyki.

                      > To przypieczetowalo moje przekonanie ze jednak
                      > jest nieopierzonym gowniarzem. Co do jego poziomu intelektualnego, no coz
                      > spieralbym sie. A ten artykulik po angielsku, ktory rozpoczal ten watek roi
                      > sie od niedomowien, pominiec i klamstw.

                      Ten artykulik zawiera sporo prawdy,moze nie calej bo nikt nie twierdzi ze
                      Ameryka to same zlo. PRAWIE same,ale nie calkowicie. Artykul jednak niezle
                      przedstawia najwazniejsze sprawy. Faktycznie moze ci sie wydawac ze to same
                      klamstwa, ale ty sie nasluchales wrednej propagandy amerykanskich mediow. CNN
                      przeciez musi wycinac 5 minut bzdur aby skleic 5 sekund sensownej wypowiedzi
                      Busha. I nawet wtedy nie zawsze im sie to udaje. Bo z kretyna geniusza nie
                      zrobisz,mozna jednak jakos to kretynstwo poprawic.

                      > Wszystko to mozliwe jest dzieki tej tandetnej, amerykanskiej kulturce ktora
                      > pozwala aby kazdy imbecyl pieprzyl niesamowite glupoty. Nie tylko pozwala ale
                      > takze chroni takie dyrdymaly swoja konstytucja.

                      Tak, mam gleboko gdzies ta tandetna konstytucje. Ciekawe ze Jefferson mial
                      niewolnikow...podobno w tym szajsie napisane jest cos o wolnosci wszystkich
                      ludzi. Co bylo najpierw, Ameryka czy klamstwo?
                      • Gość: felusiak Re: do hawka IP: *.nyc.rr.com 12.01.03, 17:30
                        Profesor polakzkorei nie dyskutuje ze studentem czyli mna lecz daje mi wyklad.
                        Niemal tak jak kiedys w szkole partyjnej. Troche tak jak z nauszaniem ekonomii
                        politycznej socjalizmu w czasach PRL. Nalezalo nauczyc sie na pamiec bo nie
                        sposob bylo znalezc jakiekolwik logiczne powiazania.
                        Twoja wypowiedz dotyczaca konstytucji USA, jakze dziecinnie naiwna przywoluje
                        niewolnikow Jeffersona na poparcie tezy o jej ulomnosci i niewaznosci.
                        Smieszy to tym bardziej, ze podstawy prawa zachodniej kultury (czyli europy na
                        zachod od Bugu) oparte sa na starozytnym prawie rzymskim, gdzie jak ci zapewne
                        wiadomo istnialo niewolnictwo.
                        Biedny polakuzkorei musisz sie jeszcze dlugo uczyc tego co ja juz zapomnielem.
                        Na marginesie dodam, ze John Wayne nie jest idolem amerykanow podobnie jak nie
                        jest nim Hogan. Naodladales sie wasternow z lat 50-tych i na tym twoja wiedza
                        o Ameryce sie zamyka. Doceniam jednak przyznanie sie do bledu. To duzy postep
                        w twojej zarozumialej pyszalkowosci.
                        Nie spodziewam sie zadnej konstruktywnej odpowiedzi z twojej strony poza
                        potokiem inwektyw i prob ponizenia. Na tym koncze swoj udzial w tym watku.

                        Have a nice life. Lots of luck. You gonna need that badly.
                      • Gość: J.K. Od wykladow, to ja tu jestem... "Koreanczyku" IP: *.dip0.t-ipconnect.de 12.01.03, 21:29
                        rozlicz sie najpierw z tego, co ci napisalem...

                        1. Korea Pld. caly dobrobyt i wolnosc zawdziecza wylacznie Stanom Zjednoczonym.
                        2. Jedyny kraj, ktory jest za zjednoczeniem Korei, to USA.
                        - Chiny i Rosja nie maja w ztym zadnego interesu...

                        Jezeli ktos piszac z Korei, celowo pomija (lub nie rozumie) tych dwoch,
                        najwazniejszych dla tego kraju spraw, to nie wart jest dyskusji...

                        Dr. J.K.
                        • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Od wykladow, to ja tu jestem... 'Koreanczyku' IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 13.01.03, 00:59
                          Gość portalu: J.K. napisał(a):

                          > rozlicz sie najpierw z tego, co ci napisalem...
                          >
                          > 1. Korea Pld. caly dobrobyt i wolnosc zawdziecza wylacznie Stanom
                          Zjednoczonym.

                          Stany nie stworzyly Samsung, Daewoo, LG...czyli nie masz racji.
                          • Gość: felusiak Re: Od wykladow, to ja tu jestem... 'Koreanczyku' IP: *.nyc.rr.com 13.01.03, 01:44
                            Ale stworzyly warunki, podobnie jak w Japonii, do rozwoju gospodarki.
                            Ales ty debilny az strach i ciarki przechodza po plecach.
                          • Gość: GT Re: Od wykladow, to ja tu jestem... 'Koreanczyku' IP: *.ipt.aol.com 13.01.03, 03:11
                            > Stany nie stworzyly Samsung, Daewoo, LG...czyli nie masz racji.

                            Co produkowal by Samsung czy Daewoo bez Amerykanskich technologii? Ryz czy ryby?

                            Czy Samsung i Daewoo moglby istniec w kraju gdzie mezczyzni byli parobkami na
                            Japonskich plantacjach a kobiety "pracowaly" w Japonskich burdelach?

                            Czy Samsung i Daewoo bylyby mozliwe w kraju Kim Ir Sena?

                            Caluj rece ktore Ci to daly!!!!!
                            • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Od wykladow, to ja tu jestem... 'Koreanczyku' IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 13.01.03, 10:45
                              Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                              > > Stany nie stworzyly Samsung, Daewoo, LG...czyli nie masz racji.
                              >
                              > Co produkowal by Samsung czy Daewoo bez Amerykanskich technologii? Ryz czy
                              ryby
                              > ?
                              >

                              A amerykanie co by produkowali bez Europejskich wynalzkow?

                              > Czy Samsung i Daewoo moglby istniec w kraju gdzie mezczyzni byli parobkami na
                              > Japonskich plantacjach a kobiety "pracowaly" w Japonskich burdelach?
                              >
                              > Czy Samsung i Daewoo bylyby mozliwe w kraju Kim Ir Sena?
                              >
                              > Caluj rece ktore Ci to daly!!!!!

                              Ale pierdolisz, kompletnie bez sensu. Sam caluj lapska rosyjskie bo oni Polske
                              of Niemcow wyzwolili. To co bylo 50 lat temu to juz historia, i nie warto nawet
                              o tym wspominac. Wiesz gdzie mam tych jankesow co tu zmarli? W dupie. I tyle.
                              Caly ten pojebany amerykanski szajs mam gleboko w dupie. Amen.
                              • Gość: J.K. Tu nie forum Medycyna... IP: *.de / 192.120.171.* 13.01.03, 10:57
                                Nie musisz p... co masz w d...

                                Tylko napisz wyraznie, ze chcesz aby Amerykanie sie wycofali, a potem chcesz
                                zjednoczenia Korei na warunkach Polnocy (jak z Vietnamem).

                                Efekty, tez beda podobne...
                              • Gość: GT Re: Od wykladow, to ja tu jestem... 'Koreanczyku' IP: 65.90.124.* 13.01.03, 17:11
                                > A amerykanie co by produkowali bez Europejskich wynalzkow?

                                Amerykanie sa potomkami Europejczykow, ktorzy wyemigrowali za ocean, maja wiec
                                pelne prawo do dziedzictwa Europy. Poza tym przez ostatnie 100 lat przeplyw
                                inowacji jest w przeciwna strone - Europa uczy sie od Ameryki.


                                > Ale pierdolisz, kompletnie bez sensu. Sam caluj lapska rosyjskie bo oni
                                > Polske of Niemcow wyzwolili.

                                Calowalbym, gdyby Rosjanie pozwolili Polsce utrzymac tyle niezaleznosci i
                                dobrobytu ile Amerykanie dali Korei.

                                > To co bylo 50 lat temu to juz historia, i nie warto nawet
                                > o tym wspominac.

                                To jest historia, ktora uksztaltowala swiat w ktorym zyjesz, byc moze dlatego
                                nic z niego nie rozumiesz.

                                > Wiesz gdzie mam tych jankesow co tu zmarli? W dupie. I tyle.
                                > Caly ten pojebany amerykanski szajs mam gleboko w dupie. Amen.

                                Zaczynam rozumiec twoj INTELEKTUALIZM chlopaczku.
              • Gość: hawk Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: proxy / *.vc.shawcable.net 12.01.03, 07:25
                Gość portalu: felusiak napisał(a):

                > Nie pomylilem sie. Jestes polakuzkorei mlodym zarozumialcem.
                > Pragne rowniez doniesc, ze nowoczesna matematyka jest spadkiem po Arabach a
                > nie europejczykach i azjatach. Arabowie jako jedyni zrozumieli koncepcje zera
                > i to dalo podstawy do rozwoju tej nauki.
                > Doradzam goraco sprawdzenie w slowniku co oznacza wyraz efektowny a co
                > efektywny.
                >
                > Zachodnioeuropejski i poludniowo-azjatycki model gospodarczy, tak efektywny
                > i przynoszacy dobrobyt swoim obywatelom pochodzi z USA podobnie jak glowny i
                > najwazniejszy przedmiot amerykanskiego eksportu czyli niekontrolowany
                przeplyw
                > informacji.
                > Bez USA swiat zamienilby sie w chaotyczny zbior dyktatur, no moze poza
                kilkoma
                > panstwami Europy Zachodniej. Oczywiscie internetu bez USA nie byloby nie
                > dlatego, ze jest to amerykanska inwencja lecz dlatego, ze wszyscy rzadzacy
                > chca kontrolowac rzadzonych az do bolu.


                Hm, a moze bez USA swiat by sie zamienil, w uporzadkowany zbior demokracji,
                poniewaz niektore dyktatury obecnie sa kreowane celowo. Aby ich najpierw
                wykorzystac do swoich celow, a pozniej ich rozwalic, napedzajac przy tym
                ekonomie i poziom zatrudnienia w przemysle zbrojeniowym. Coz, i tak ofiara
                placi, niedlugo Irak bedzie placil za 'wyzwolenie' wlasna ropa.
                • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: 65.90.124.* 13.01.03, 20:30
                  > Hm, a moze bez USA swiat by sie zamienil, w uporzadkowany zbior demokracji,
                  > poniewaz niektore dyktatury obecnie sa kreowane celowo.

                  Podaj mi jeden przyklad demokracji, ktora sie rozwinela bez wsparcia Ameryki.

                  > Aby ich najpierw
                  > wykorzystac do swoich celow, a pozniej ich rozwalic, napedzajac przy tym
                  > ekonomie i poziom zatrudnienia w przemysle zbrojeniowym.

                  Podaj przyklad dyktatury stworzonej celowo przez Amerykanow po to by owa
                  dyktature rozwalic.

                  > Coz, i tak ofiara
                  > placi, niedlugo Irak bedzie placil za 'wyzwolenie' wlasna ropa.

                  Juz wkrotce zobaczysz Irakijczykow tanczacych na ulicach na widok Amerykanskich
                  zolnierzy, tak jak bylo to w Afghanistanie.
                  • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: 219.240.32.* 14.01.03, 11:20
                    Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                    > > Hm, a moze bez USA swiat by sie zamienil, w uporzadkowany zbior demokracji
                    > ,
                    > > poniewaz niektore dyktatury obecnie sa kreowane celowo.
                    >
                    > Podaj mi jeden przyklad demokracji, ktora sie rozwinela bez wsparcia Ameryki.
                    >
                    > > Aby ich najpierw
                    > > wykorzystac do swoich celow, a pozniej ich rozwalic, napedzajac przy tym
                    > > ekonomie i poziom zatrudnienia w przemysle zbrojeniowym.
                    >
                    > Podaj przyklad dyktatury stworzonej celowo przez Amerykanow po to by owa
                    > dyktature rozwalic.
                    >

                    Panama.

                    > > Coz, i tak ofiara
                    > > placi, niedlugo Irak bedzie placil za 'wyzwolenie' wlasna ropa.
                    >
                    > Juz wkrotce zobaczysz Irakijczykow tanczacych na ulicach na widok
                    Amerykanskich
                    >
                    > zolnierzy, tak jak bylo to w Afghanistanie.
                    • Gość: GT Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla / Nie zazdroscie IP: 65.90.124.* 14.01.03, 23:32
                      > Panama.

                      Panama powstala by zapewnic mozliwosc stworzenia kanalu, bynajmniej nie jako
                      dyktatura. Dyktatura Noriegi zostala zamieniona na demokracje, kiedy Noriega
                      uniewaznil wybory, i zaczal wspolpracowac z kartelami narkotykowymi.

                      Panama dyktatura w Panamie nie powstala z poparcia USA, wprost przeciwnie, USA
                      zlikwidowala dyktature i wprowadzila demokracje.
    • Gość: dick Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 209.234.157.* 12.01.03, 07:45
      Gość portalu: Polak_w_Koreii napisał(a):

      > Ten post napisalem po angielsku na innym forum, a ze
      jest dosyc dlugi, nie
      > bede go tlumaczyl na jezyk polski.
      >
      > -------------------------------------------------------
      ----------------------
      >

      Sluchaj,ty pojebany pol-zolty kutasie.
      To co napisales nie tylko ze zawiera kupe bledow,
      to w dodatku jest bez sensu!
      To co piszesz,to kompletny obled i swiadczy do czego
      moze dojsc taki palant jak ty w tej popierdolonej Koreii
      Jak nie masz gdzie zagrzac chuja tylko w zoltej cipie,
      to nie mow takich bredni,to tylko swiadzy o twym
      zwyrodnieniu.
      Niestety,ale koloru swojej skory nie zmienisz,a wiec
      zacznij plodzic nowych kutasow,poprzez pocieranie
      twojego bialego chuja o zolta cipe,wtedy powstana
      nowe kutasiatka,z ktorymi bedziesz mogl wspolzyc.
      Zycze powodzenia,

      dick

      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: 211.190.156.* 12.01.03, 07:50
        Gość portalu: dick napisaŠŠ(a):

        > Gość portalu: Polak_w_Koreii napisaŠŠ(a):
        >
        > > Ten post napisalem po angielsku na innym forum, a ze
        > jest dosyc dlugi, nie
        > > bede go tlumaczyl na jezyk polski.
        > >
        > > -------------------------------------------------------
        > ----------------------
        > >
        >
        > Sluchaj,ty pojebany pol-zolty kutasie.

        No prosze, odezwal sie nastepny jankes kowboj:) Nazywasz sie John Wayne?:)

        > To co napisales nie tylko ze zawiera kupe bledow,
        > to w dodatku jest bez sensu!

        Tak sadzisz? Kto ci powiedzial?:) Twoj pies?

        > To co piszesz,to kompletny obled i swiadczy do czego
        > moze dojsc taki palant jak ty w tej popierdolonej Koreii

        Tak. Podobno same bledy. Prosze o jakies dowody. Ale ty nie masz dowodow,
        chcesz pokazac tylko swoj poziom intelektualny, eh penis?


        > Jak nie masz gdzie zagrzac chuja tylko w zoltej cipie,
        > to nie mow takich bredni,to tylko swiadzy o twym
        > zwyrodnieniu.

        hehehe odezwal sie koles z takik nickiem:) Moge do ciebie mowic kutas lub chuj?

        > Niestety,ale koloru swojej skory nie zmienisz,a wiec
        > zacznij plodzic nowych kutasow,poprzez pocieranie
        > twojego bialego chuja o zolta cipe,wtedy powstana
        > nowe kutasiatka,z ktorymi bedziesz mogl wspolzyc.
        > Zycze powodzenia,


        Gratuluje inteligencji.
        >
        > dick=kutas
        >
        • Gość: J.K. Od wykladow, to ja tu jestem, "Koreanczyku"... IP: *.dip0.t-ipconnect.de 12.01.03, 21:32
          rozlicz sie najpierw z tego, co ci napisalem...

          1. Korea Pld. caly dobrobyt i wolnosc zawdziecza wylacznie Stanom Zjednoczonym.
          2. Jedyny kraj, ktory jest za zjednoczeniem Korei, to USA.
          - Chiny i Rosja nie maja w tym zadnego interesu...

          Jezeli ktos piszac z Korei, celowo pomija (lub nie rozumie) tych dwoch,
          najwazniejszych dla tego kraju spraw, to nie wart jest dyskusji...

          Dr. J.K.

    • Gość: John Wayne Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: *.nyc.rr.com 12.01.03, 17:45
      What a pail of bullshit you've managed to write.
      You must be a lobotomized moron. Good God gave you an ability to use your brain
      and you've wasted it. I feel sorry for your parents and all the money they
      spent to "educate" you. Sorry.
      Don't even try to answer. Save your breath.
    • kontrkultura no i co w zwiazku z tym? 12.01.03, 20:41
      No dobra, tez zabardzo nie imponuja mi USA, ale uwazam, ze nic lepszego od
      wspolpracy z nimi nam nie zostaje.
      --
      Co Ty proponujesz?
      Co powinnismy wg. Ciebie zrobic?
      • Gość: hawk Re: no i co? / A widzisz? IP: proxy / *.vc.shawcable.net 13.01.03, 05:22
        Nawet John Wayne wstal z grobu i przyszedl aby z Toba Rodaku podyskutowac.
        Musiales mu dopiec niezle. hihihih
        • kontrkultura Re: no i co? / A widzisz? 13.01.03, 06:01
          On czeka na Linkolna i Washyndtona
    • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii For GT - Americann genocides IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 12:58
      GT, you asserted that America did not have any hand in the genocide of the
      Native American, and that the victim tally of their westward expansion is
      somewhere areound a "few thousand".

      Your lies are unbelievable.

      I concede that my figure of 40 million was wrong. But the fact is that millions
      of American Indians were murdered, whole nations destroyed, whole cultures
      decimated or made extinct due directly to American policies during their
      westward epansion. This was the first American Genocide. The tally: from 5-10
      million natives eliminated.

      The Removal Act of 1830 set into motion a series of events which led to
      the "Trail of Tears" in 1838, a forced march of the Cherokees, resulting in the
      destruction of most of the Cherokee population." The concentration of American
      Indians in small geographic areas, and the scattering of them from their
      homelands, caused increased death, primarily because of associated military
      actions, disease, starvation, extremely harsh conditions during the moves, and
      the resulting destruction of ways of life.

      During American expansion into the western frontier, one primary effort to
      destroy the Indian way of life was the attempts of the U.S. government to make
      farmers and cattle ranchers of the Indians. In addition, one of the most
      substantial methods was the premeditated destructions of flora and fauna which
      the American Indians used for food and a variety of other purposes. We now also
      know that the Indians were intentionally exposed to smallpox by Europeans. The
      discovery of gold in California, early in 1848, prompted American migration and
      expansion into the west. The greed of Americans for money and land was
      rejuvenated with the Homestead Act of 1862. In California and Texas there was
      blatant genocide of Indians by non-Indians during certain historic periods. In
      California, the decrease from about a quarter of a million to less than 20,000
      is primarily due to the cruelties and wholesale massacres perpetrated by the
      miners and early settlers. Indian education began with forts erected by
      Jesuits, in which indigenous youths were incarcerated, indoctrinated with non-
      indigenous Christian values, and forced into manual labor. These children were
      forcibly removed from their parents by soldiers and many times never saw their
      families until later in their adulthood. This was after their value systems and
      knowledge had been supplanted with colonial thinking. One of the foundations of
      the U.S. imperialist strategy was to replace traditional leadership of the
      various indigenous nations with indoctrinated "graduates" of white "schools,"
      in order to expedite compliance with U.S. goals and expansion.

      Probably one of the most ruinous acts to the Indians was the disappearance of
      the buffalo. For the Indians who lived on the Plains, life depended on the
      buffalo. At the beginning of the nineteenth century, there were an estimated
      forty million buffalo, but between 1830 and 1888 there was a rapid, systematic
      extermination culminating in the sudden slaughter of the only two remaining
      Plain herds. By around 1895, the formerly vast buffalo populations were
      practically extinct. The slaughter occurred because of the economic value of
      buffalo hides to Americans and because the animals were in the way of the
      rapidly westward expanding population. The end result was widescale starvation
      and the social and cultural disintegration of many Plains tribes.


      The second genocide was Slavery. It was among the most brutal crimes of the
      last few centuries.

      But let's get to some more contemporary murders purpotrated by America.

      First up is the Philippine War which the United States fought to takeover the
      Philippines from a newly independent Filipino government and pro-independence
      guerrilla forces. With the approval, if not under the command of their
      officers, American soldiers widely used torture, and often shot their prisoners
      and surrendering guerrillas. Moreover, as a military strategy American forces
      laid waste to inhabited areas of guerrilla infested island areas, destroying
      villages and killing many civilians in the process. Surviving civilians were
      often driven into camps or controlled villages, where conditions deteriorated
      such that many died from hunger and disease. Numerous letters from soldiers and
      other first hand reports during the war attest to the responsibility of the
      American Army for thousands of deaths. Estimates of the number for particular
      campaigns, such as on Luzon or the Visayas Islands are difficult to find.
      Indeed, the Philippine War seems to have dropped into a memory hole.

      Based on several works on the war and taking account of General Bell's claim
      that on Luzon alone one-sixth of the population was killed, or about 600,000
      Filipinos.

      China.

      At the same time the United States was involved in the sack of Peking.
      Following the defeat of the Boxer rebels and Chinese Imperial Army eight
      foreign military contingents sacked Peking and the far countryside. Homes and
      shops were looted, women raped and murdered, and unarmed civilians generally
      killed. The resulting range of 125 to 6,250 murders appears sufficient to well
      include the actual American democide.

      Mass bombings.

      The United States committed its greatest democide during the Second World War.
      This was in the indiscriminate area bombing of German and Japanese cities,
      including Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Regarding Japan, the apparent lack of success
      of precision bombing led to the assumption of command over the bombing by
      General Curtis Lemay, who was disposed to massive area bombing of Japanese
      cities.through indiscriminate urban bombing the American Air Force probably
      murdered 337,000 Japanese during the war.

      The overall bombing toll for Germanywhich amounts to a range of 300,000 to
      600,000 killed.


      This is not the only American democide during the war. After an intensive study
      of American documents and interviews with survivors and perpetrators, the
      Canadian writer and former publisher James Bacque concluded that just before
      and after the end of the war German POWs and civilians in American detention
      camps in Europe died from hunger, exposure, and disease causing conditions as
      bad as the worse of gulag, and for which General Eisenhower was directly
      responsible. Bacque's figures are stunning: "undoubtedly . . . over 800,000,
      almost certainly over 900,000, and quite likely over a million died."









      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Americans in Gwatemala IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 13:26
        At the end of the 19th century Guatemala came under the rule of a dictator who
        put his country on the economic map by encouraging landowners to buy and run
        coffee plantations. The Roman Catholic church was deprived of its lands for the
        purpose, and within 30 years Americans were the major investors. A powerful
        army and police force were set up to protect the wealthy landowners and their
        flourishing businesses. The Indians, with the status of peasants and labourers,
        saw nothing of the wealth being generated under a series of grasping dictators.
        attempts at land reform brought Guatemala's 'Ten Years of Spring' to an end.
        When the Guatemalan government planned a programme of compulsory purchase of
        land so that it would come under State ownership, the USA, its business
        interests threatened, set up a scare: 'hostile communists were at work'.
        America organised and trained a corps of eager Guatemalan exiles, then launched
        an invasion to bring down the government. In and after this blood-stained
        encounter - in which thousands died - workers' unions and political parties
        were suppressed, other reforms cancelled, and dissidents hunted down for
        assassination.
        A military dictator was helped to take over the government, followed by a
        string of right-wing military leaders dedicated to eliminating the left wing.
        In 1962 their policies resulted in a civil war that was to last over 35 years.
        Throughout the period of the genocide, the USA continued to provide military
        support to the Guatemalan government, mainly in the form of arms and equipment.
        The infamous guerrilla training school, the School of the Americas in Georgia
        USA, continued to train Guatemalan officers notorious for human rights abuses;
        the CIA worked with Guatemalan intelligence officers, some of whom were on the
        CIA payroll despite known human rights violations. US involvement was
        understood to be strategic - or, put another way, indifferent to the fate of a
        bunch of Indians - in the wider context of the Cold War and anti-Communist
        action.

        During the Cold War, this is how a war reporter perceived the American view:
        'There are two kinds of dictatorship, Communist (abhorrent), and right-wing
        (anti-Communist and acceptable as allies). Human rights are violated in
        Communist dictatorships and the US government will protest firmly. The hideous
        abuse of human rights in right-wing, authoritarian dictatorships is ignored or
        smoothed over. Do other Free World governments accept this? They have made no
        public repudiation of it.

        Long before fear of Communism became the chief preoccupation of American
        governments, they sustained right-wing dictatorships throughout the Caribbean
        and Central and South America. If hungry, oppressed people rebelled, send in
        the Marines to establish order. If the people managed to elect a non-tyrant who
        would care for their interests, destabilise that government. The tragic needs
        of the people of those countries were unimportant. The word gringo (which means
        someone who speaks English, not Spanish) is not a joke: for the poor, who are
        most of the people, it is the name of the enemy throughout Latin America.'
      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Americans in Cambodia IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 13:35
        In 1964, the USA entered the Vietnam war, with airpower, firebombs and
        poisonous defoliants. Under Prince Sihanouk, Cambodia had preserved neutrality
        during the Vietnamese civil war by giving a little to both sides: Vietnamese
        communists were allowed to use a Cambodian port to ship in supplies, the USA
        were allowed to bomb - secretly and illegitimately - Viet Cong hideouts in
        Cambodia. When US-backed Lon Nol took over, US troops felt free to move into
        Cambodia to continue their struggle with the Viet Cong. Cambodia had become
        part of the Vietnam battlefield. During the next four years, American B-52
        bombers, using napalm and dart cluster-bombs, killed up to 750,000 Cambodians
        in their effort to destroy suspected North Vietnamese supply lines.

        Pol Pot.

        Throughout the 1980s the Khmer Rouge forces were covertly backed by America and
        the UK (who trained them in the use of landmines) because of their united
        hostility to communist Vietnam.
        • Gość: GT Re: Americans in Cambodia IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 21:09
          You use nonsensical strategy for Guatemala, Cambodia and other episodes of the
          Cold War. You try to suggest that US is the only motor of events. You denying
          local people/government their own agendas and their own internal conflicts. And
          you ignore destructive policies if the USRR and it's communist ally.

          Reality is that with or without US this countries were sliding into civil wars.
          Both sides of the war tried to gain traction by seeking external suport. In the
          context of Cold War endpoint usualy was with US taking one side and USSR taking
          the other - moral value of sides fighting in local conflicts was frequently
          suspicious, but moral value of communism was unequivocaly low.

          Frankly most of painfuly collected statements you present are the episodes of
          Cold War, following similar scenarios. Answering all of them is waste of time.

      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Americans in Vietnam IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 13:47
        In its supposed war of liberation, the last people who the americans thought of
        were the people that they were "liberating".

        -The Americans made no effort to win the hearts and minds of the local
        Vietnamese. For example, the My Lai Massacre of March 1968 saw US troops kill
        over 300 Vietnam villagers, yet they only recovered 3 weapons
        -The USA relied upon bombing industrial targets yet Vietnam was not
        industrialised or urbanized.
        -When Nixon became President in 1969, he was determined to end the war in
        Vietnam, His policy was one of Vietnamization, which was to get the USA out of
        Vietnam with as little humiliation as possible. He turned to air attacks
        including attacks on Cambodia and Laos, as well as North Vietnam.
        -Some 3 million Vietnamese were killed. Landmines continue to kill people to
        this day. Napalm caused horrific burns while Agent Orange caused extensive
        environmental damage
        -The U.S. unleashed the most vicious and intense air war in world history
        against the people's war waged by the North Vietnamese and the National
        Liberation Front of Vietnam.

        Seven million tons of bombs were dropped on Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos--three
        times as many as had been dropped in all of World War 2. Chemical weapons such
        as napalm, white phosphorus incendiary bombs, Agent Orange, tear gas, and nerve
        gas were all part of the U.S. arsenal.

        In all, an estimated three million Vietnamese people died in the war and
        millions of acres of crop land and jungle were poisoned.

        The lies of GT and other american robots vis a vis American use of chemical
        weapons in Vietnam. There were several kinds used by America.

        1. Napalm

        This syrupy jellied gasoline was widely used by the U.S. to burn down forests,
        villages, and people--and came to symbolize the horror and criminality of the
        U.S. war. Napalm burns at more than 5,000 degrees--and keeps burning after it
        sticks, sometimes burning people to the bone. Napalm sucks the oxygen out of
        the air, asphyxiating anyone nearby.

        Nick Ut was the Associated Press photographer who took the now famous picture
        of a young Vietnamese girl, Kim Phuc, running in terror after being burned by
        U.S. napalm. He said, "Napalm was everywhere in Vietnam, and I shot a lot of
        pictures of it. That day, I took a picture of a little boy who died right there
        in front of my camera. Then a few minutes later, I shot a picture of Kim Phuc."


        2. Defoliants and Agent Orange

        The U.S. began destroying the jungles used by Vietnamese liberation fighters
        and the crops of the Vietnamese farmers as early as 1961 when it began
        supplying South Vietnamese pilots with massive amounts of Agent Orange--a 50/50
        mixture of the defoliants 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T--and other defoliants, including
        some containing arsenic, and training them in its use.

        By 1967, U.S. pilots were flying 18 massive C-123 transports outfitted with
        special tanks capable of carrying 10,000 pounds of Agent Orange and high-
        pressure nozzles for spraying; and the U.S. was spending $60 million a year on
        the operation. A Japanese study that year claimed that U.S. attacks had ruined
        more than 3.8 million acres of arable land in South Vietnam. One Vietnamese
        peasant described a three-day chemical attack near Da Nang in February 1966:

        "Affected areas covered 120 kilometers east-west and 150 kilometers north-
        south. Five minutes was all that was needed to wither tapioca, sweet
        potato...and banana plants. Livestock suffered heavy injuries....Most of the
        river fish were found lying dead on the surface of mountain streams and brooks.
        The three days of chemical attack poisoned scores of people, took the lives of
        about 10 and inflicted a "natus" disease [with symptoms like a severe rash]
        upon 18,000 inhabitants."

        It was also revealed in 1980 that the U.S. had sprayed Agent Orange over 23,607
        acres of southern border of the demilitarized zone between North and South
        Korea.

        3. Tear gases

        In 1962 the U.S. began supplying the puppet South Vietnamese army with CN tear
        gas and CS--or super--tear gas, as well as DM nausea-inducing gas. These were
        first used to attack anti-government protests and later widely used in military
        operations--in violation of the 1925 treaty prohibiting such gases in war.
        Often U.S. helicopters would drop hundreds of tear gas grenades to try and
        flush Vietnamese liberation fighters out of their tunnels or hide-outs, and
        then U.S. bombers would saturation bomb the area. In one such attack in May
        1966, the U.S. dropped 12 tons of CS gas near the Cambodian border.

        4. Nerve gas

        In 1998 CNN and Time magazine reported new revelations of the use of chemical
        weapons by the U.S. in Vietnam: the U.S. had used nerve gas in combat.
        During "Operation Tailwind," the U.S. military used sarin nerve gas on a
        targeted village--which included Indochinese civilians, American military
        deserters, and fighters of the Vietnamese and Laotian liberation armies. CNN/
        Time's report claimed there were at least 20 other instances in which the U.S.
        used nerve gas during the Vietnam War.

        Retired Adm. Thomas Moorer, the Chief of Naval Operations during the Vietnam
        War and later Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, confirmed that the U.S.
        had CBU-15 cluster bombs, designed to deliver nerve gas, and he admitted that
        they had been used repeatedly during the Vietnam War. Under intense pressure
        from the U.S. imperialist establishment, including the military, CNN later
        retracted their story and fired those who reported it. A number of the
        reporters, however, have stuck to their report.






      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Americans in the Gulf Region. 1991 war IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 13:53
        Poison water

        During "Desert Storm," U.S.-led forces deliberately targeted Iraq's water
        system and electrical grid, totally destroying 11 of Iraq's 20 power generating
        stations and damaging another six. As one Iraq relief official explained, "When
        you destroy the infrastructure of a country, sewage with all its germs will
        flow into the streets; you stop pure water from reaching the children; you give
        them malnutrition; you prevent medicines from reaching the country. So it's an
        excellent environment for death and disease."

        Since the war, the U.S. has blocked Iraq from rebuilding its civilian
        infrastructure with punishing sanctions. The contamination of Iraq's water
        supply, coupled with shortages of food and medicine, has led to sharp increases
        in disease, starvation, and death across Iraq.

        The UN estimates that 5,000 Iraqi children die every month as a result.

        Radioactive Shells

        The U.S. military introduced a new weapon in the Persian Gulf War--armor-
        piercing anti-tank shells made of a radioactive material known as "depleted
        uranium" (DU). The military claimed these weapons pose no radiation danger, but
        when DU shells explode, they release highly poisonous dust that can be inhaled
        or ingested and then trapped in the body--where it can cause lung and bone
        cancer and kidney disease.

        U.S. forces fired off 860,590 rounds of such depleted-uranium munitions during
        the Gulf War. Hundreds of tons of exploded DU ammunition were left in Iraq and
        Kuwait, turning the area into a huge toxic waste dump. An August 1995 study
        submitted by Iraq to the UN reported sharp increases in cancers and various
        diseases in Iraq's southern region. Iraqi health officials say radioactivity
        levels in southern Iraq are "150 to 200 times the background level," and
        that "our cancer incidence has increased 10 times during the past few years."

        The Nation reported, "A secret British Atomic Energy Authority report leaked to
        the London Independent in November 1991 warned that there was enough depleted
        uranium left behind in the Persian Gulf to account for '500,000 potential
        deaths' through increased cancer rates."

        Another study, by the Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm Association, found
        that out of 10,051 Gulf war veterans who have reported mysterious illnesses, 82
        percent had entered captured enemy vehicles and probably been exposed to DU
        munitions.

        Vis a vis lies of GT and JK about American testing weaponry on own people:

        Toxic Clouds over the Gulf and the Gulf War Syndrome.

        After the Gulf War, tens of thousands of GIs and reservists began experiencing
        debilitating and sometimes life-threatening medical problems: immune system
        failure, respiratory problems, severe joint and muscle pain, headaches, nausea,
        diarrhea, dizziness, fatigue, loss of memory, sores, intestinal and heart
        problems. Some Gulf vets developed cancers, and many babies born to Gulf war
        veteran families have birth defects. These illnesses have come to be known as
        Gulf War Syndrome, and by March 1996 over 80,000 U.S. vets were suffering from
        it.

        Many questions remain about the cause or causes of Gulf War Syndrome, but most
        researchers are certain that these health problems result from war-time
        exposure to toxic chemicals and other poisonous substances.

        U.S.-led forces bombed chemical, biological and nuclear facilities in Iraq--one
        Senate investigation found that 18 chemical, 12 biological and 4 nuclear
        facilities were hit--and debris from the bombings was carried by the wind and
        spread over a wide area of Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Iran. Some vets and
        others also say that exposure to chemical and biological poisons occurred as a
        result of Iraqi missile attacks against U.S. and other Coalition forces.

        There is clear evidence that top government and military officials knew the
        troops were exposed to toxic chemicals--but the military establishment refused
        to admit there was a problem until 1996--five years after the war ended.

        Many vets also believe their illness results from being made guinea pigs for
        experimental and unapproved vaccine cocktails--supposedly to protect them from
        Iraqi chemical and biological weapons that the U.S. military forced them to
        have before the war



        • Gość: GT Re: Americans in the Gulf Region. 1991 war IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 21:39
          > During "Desert Storm," U.S.-led forces deliberately targeted Iraq's water
          > system and electrical grid, totally destroying 11 of Iraq's 20 power ststions.

          Such is war. Country which deliberately destroyed infrastructure of Kuwait, and
          set oil fields on fire has no reason to complain.

          > Since the war, the U.S. has blocked Iraq from rebuilding its civilian
          > infrastructure with punishing sanctions.

          Alowing for export of oil in exchange for food and medicines.

          > The contamination of Iraq's water
          > supply, coupled with shortages of food and medicine, has led to sharp
          > increases in disease, starvation, and death across Iraq.

          ... while leader of the country continued to spend bilions on palaces and
          weapons.

          > The UN estimates that 5,000 Iraqi children die every month as a result.

          ...and recomendig disarmament as a condintion for lifting the sanctions.

          > The U.S. military introduced a new weapon in the Persian Gulf War--armor-
          > piercing anti-tank shells made of a radioactive material known as "depleted
          > uranium" (DU). The military claimed these weapons pose no radiation danger

          Which is true - depleated uranium means - uranium depleted of radioactive
          isotopes - it does not have significant radioactivity - handling depleted
          uranium is not dangerous.

          > when DU shells explode, they release highly poisonous dust that can be
          > inhaled or ingested and then trapped in the body--where it can cause lung and
          > bone cancer and kidney disease.

          Well, missiles are made to kill. But as far a toxicity goes uranium is LESS
          toxic that lead - used in old munitions.


          > An August 1995 study
          > submitted by Iraq to the UN reported sharp increases in cancers and various
          > diseases in Iraq's southern region. Iraqi health officials say radioactivity
          > levels in southern Iraq are "150 to 200 times the background level," and
          > that "our cancer incidence has increased 10 times during the past few years."

          So far no independent agency was able to validate this data, nor confirm
          radioactivity levels "reported" by Iraquis.

          > Another study, by the Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm Association, found
          > that out of 10,051 Gulf war veterans who have reported mysterious illnesses,
          > 82 percent had entered captured enemy vehicles and probably been exposed to
          > DU munitions.

          Desert Storm Syndrome like curse of Tutenhamon is waiting for another
          conspiracy aficinado. Out of 500 000 people participating in Desert Storm 2%
          did not feel well, 0.1% developed leukemia, 0.01% even died - it must be
          American Evil Machine at work.

          > U.S.-led forces bombed chemical, biological and nuclear facilities in Iraq

          That must be a lie - Iraq DOES NOT have ANY chemical, biological or nuclear
          facilities producing toxic or even unhealthy material. Does it?

          > There is clear evidence that top government and military officials knew the
          > troops were exposed to toxic chemicals--but the military establishment
          > refused
          > to admit there was a problem until 1996--five years after the war ended.

          But seroiusly - what you can do upon exposure to toxic material - wait and deal
          with complications - that was done.
      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Americans in Yugoslavia IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 13:54
        Scientists warned NATO that bombing the Pancevo's industrial zone would unleash
        a cancer-causing, environmental nightmare--but NATO planes bombed it
        nonetheless--more than 20 times in a two and one-half month period. At least
        80,000 tons of oil and 3,000 tons of ethylene dichloride, vinyl chloride
        monomer and mercury burned in one night of bombing--all known toxins and
        suspected carcinogens. One professor at Belgrade University called the 1999
        attack a "chemical war," which released hundreds if not thousands of known
        toxins and carcinogens into the environment, threatening the region's ecosystem
        and threatening Yugoslavia's food chain.

        U.S. jets also fired 31,000 depleted uranium shells during the Balkans War
        • Gość: GT Re: Americans in Yugoslavia IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 21:47
          > Scientists warned NATO that bombing the Pancevo's industrial zone would
          unleash
          >
          > a cancer-causing, environmental nightmare--but NATO planes bombed it
          > nonetheless--more than 20 times in a two and one-half month period. At least
          > 80,000 tons of oil and 3,000 tons of ethylene dichloride, vinyl chloride
          > monomer and mercury burned in one night of bombing--all known toxins and
          > suspected carcinogens.

          Such is war. If you don't want damage done to your places wawe the wihte flag -
          nobody seen it.


      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Americans in Korea, China IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 13:58
        In 1952, the Chinese and North Korean governments accused the U.S. of dropping
        germ bombs on North Korea and northeast China. To investigate these charges,
        the People's Republic of China helped form the "International Scientific
        Commission for the Investigation of the Facts Concerning Bacterial Warfare in
        Korea and China." It included scientists from Sweden, France, Italy, Russia,
        Brazil and England. The Commission concluded: "the peoples of Korea and China
        did actually serve as targets for bacteriological weapons. These weapons were
        used by detachments of the armed forces of the USA...including cholera-infected
        clams, anthrax-infected feathers, plague- and yellow-fever-infected lice,
        fleas, mosquitoes, rodents, rabbits, and other small animals." The U.S. denied
        these charges, but later admitted it did have the capability of waging such
        germ warfare.

        According to William Blum, author of Rogue State, the U.S. also dropped "huge
        amounts of napalm on Korea, an average of 70,000 gallons daily in 1952."

        • Gość: GT Re: Americans in Korea, China IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 21:50
          > but later admitted it did have the capability of waging such
          > germ warfare.

          And I have capability to commit rape, what about you?
      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Americans in Panama IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 14:00
        From the 1940s to the 1990s, the U.S. used Panama as a testing ground for
        chemical weapons, including mustard gas, VX, sarin, hydrogen cyanide and other
        nerve agents. Some of the earlier tests exposed U.S. troops with horrific
        results for some of the soldiers. The U.S. military also conducted secret tests
        of Agent Orange and other toxic herbicides in Panama during the 1960s and '70s--
        spraying jungle areas to simulate battlefield conditions of Southeast Asia.
        When the U.S. military invaded Panama in 1999, residents of the mountain
        village of Pacora, near Panama City, reported being bombed with a chemical
        substance that burned their skin and produced intense stinging and diarrhea.
        The U.S. forces left behind many sites with chemical weapons residue in Panama,
        including numerous chemical weapons dropped from planes that failed to detonate.
      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Americans not trustworthy IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 14:02
        For the past 10 years, countries around the world have been in negotiations
        over how to enforce the 1972 Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention, signed by
        143 nations including the U.S., which bans the development, production and
        possession of biological weapons. These negotiations are to culminate in an
        international conference in November. Yet this past summer, the U.S. announced
        it would refuse on-site inspections and instead argued that the focus should be
        on punishing those who develop or use biological weapons--after the fact.

        The Times reported that "Earlier this year, administration officials said, the
        Pentagon drew up plans to engineer genetically a potentially more potent
        variant of the bacterium that causes anthrax, a deadly disease ideal for germ
        warfare." The U.S. is opposed to international inspections because it wants to
        keep such projects secret.

        • Gość: GT Re: Americans not trustworthy IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 22:00
          > Yet this past summer, the U.S. announced
          > it would refuse on-site inspections and instead argued that the focus should
          > be on punishing those who develop or use biological weapons--after the fact.

          It's typical treaty, which takes on area where Americans are dominant -
          biotechnology and tries to use pretext of weapons gathering industrial
          intelligence. Americans are responsible for 90% of patents in biotechnology, so
          on-site inspections in US are more likely to disclose comercially valuable data
          than in Sudan.

          Would you be surprised if France protested on site visits to all Champaigne
          producing facilities under the pretext of consumer protection.

          Contrary to your asumptions role of biological agents in US military is
          minimal.

      • Gość: GT Re: For GT - Americann genocides IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 14:29

        > The tally: from 5-10
        > million natives eliminated.

        At the when US was established - population oof Native Americans is estimated
        to be 2-3mln it did not change drastically since than. What are you writing is
        nonsens.

        > The Removal Act of 1830 set into motion a series of events which led to
        > the "Trail of Tears" in 1838, a forced march of the Cherokees, resulting in
        > the destruction of most of the Cherokee population."

        Trail of tears is real, and unfortunate part of American history, you still
        have to give me 9.99 mln.

        > In addition, one of the most
        > substantial methods was the premeditated destructions of flora and fauna
        > which the American Indians used for food and a variety of other purposes.

        Now you will have to prove that it was premeditated, organized by the US
        government, and that it was possible to awoid it. Fact that farmers and cattle
        herders replace hunters and gatherers is a rule of history which took place
        EVERYWHERE in the world where two such cultures from China to South Africa.

        > We now also know that the Indians were intentionally exposed to smallpox by
        Europeans.

        Europeans, but not Americans - by the time US was established - great smallpox
        epidemy which killed more than 90% of native populations in both Americas was
        over, majority of Native Population was imune to smallpox by the time of the
        Westward expansion of US.

        > In California, the decrease from about a quarter of a million to less than
        > 20,000 is primarily due to the cruelties and wholesale massacres perpetrated
        > by the miners and early settlers. Indian education began with forts erected
        > by Jesuits, in which indigenous youths were incarcerated, indoctrinated with
        > non-indigenous Christian values, and forced into manual labor. These children
        > were forcibly removed from their parents by soldiers and many times never saw
        > their families until later in their adulthood. This was after their value
        > systems and knowledge had been supplanted with colonial thinking.

        What you are writing about is basically thrue,problem is it took place during
        SPANISH and MEXICAN rule. By the time goold rush in 1849 native population was
        already decimated.

        > Probably one of the most ruinous acts to the Indians was the disappearance of
        > the buffalo.

        That's correct, but even acording to Native American mythology buffalo was
        resource available to all people - white Americans were just more eficient
        hunters. There is no evidence that the proces was INTENDED by anybody, much
        less by US government whose control over this lawless frontier was limited to
        couple trading forts on the prairie. US goverment was THE FIRST government in
        the world which started to preserve natural resource bufallo one of the first
        among them.
    • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii American war crimes IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 14:08
      Ever since the United States Army massacred 300 Lakotas in 1890, American
      forces have intervened elsewhere around the globe 100 times. Indeed the
      United States has sent troops abroad or militarily struck other countries'
      territory 216 times since independence from Britain. Since 1945 the United
      States has intervened in more than 20 countries throughout the world.



      Since World War II, the United States actually dropped bombs on 23
      countries. These include: China 1945-46, Korea 1950-53, China 1950-53,
      Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-60, Guatemala 1960, Congo
      1964, Peru 1965, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia 1969-70, Guatemala
      1967-69, Grenada 1983, Lebanon 1984, Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s,Nicaragua
      1980s, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991-1999, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998,
      and Yugoslavia 1999.

      Post World War II, the United States has also assisted in over 20
      different coups throughout the world, and the CIA was responsible for half a
      dozen assassinations of political heads of state.

      Argentina - 1890 - Troops sent to Buenos Aires to protect business interests.

      Chile - 1891 - Marines sent to Chile and clashed with nationalist rebels.

      Haiti - 1891 - American troops suppress a revolt by Black workers on United
      States-claimed Navassa Island.


      Hawaii - 1893 - Navy sent to Hawaii to overthrow the independent kingdom -
      Hawaii annexed by the United States.

      Nicaragua - 1894 - Troops occupied Bluefields, a city on the Caribbean Sea, for
      a month.

      China - 1894-95 - Navy, Army, and Marines landed during the Sino-Japanese War.

      Panama - 1895 - Army, Navy, and Marines landed in the port city of Corinto.

      China - 1894-1900 - Troops occupied China during the Boxer Rebellion.

      Philippines - 1898-1910 - Navy and Army troops landed after the Philippines
      fell during the Spanish-American
      War; 600,000 Filipinos were killed.

      Cuba - 1898-1902 - Troops seized Cuba in the Spanish-American War; the United
      States still maintains troops at Guantanamo Bay today.

      Puerto Rico - 1898 - present - Troops seized Puerto Rico in the Spanish-
      American War and still occupy Puerto Rico today.

      Nicaragua - 1898 - Marines landed at the port of San Juan del Sur.

      Samoa - 1899 - Troops landed as a result over the battle for succession to the
      throne.

      Panama - 1901-14 - Navy supported the revolution when Panama claimed
      dependence from Colombia. American troops have occupied the Canal Zone since
      1901 when construction for the canal began.

      Honduras - 1903 - Marines landed to intervene during a revolution.

      Dominican Rep 1903-04 - Troops landed to protect American interests during a
      revolution.

      Korea - 1904-05 - Marines landed during the Russo-Japanese War.

      Cuba - 1906-09 - Troops landed during an election.

      Nicaragua - 1907 - Troops landed and a protectorate was set up.

      Honduras - 1907 - Marines landed during Honduras' war with Nicaragua.

      Panama - 1908 - Marines sent in during Panama's election.

      Nicaragua - 1910 - Marines landed for a second time in Bluefields and Corinto.

      Honduras - 1911 - Troops sent in to protect American
      interests during Honduras' civil war.

      China - 1911-41 - Navy and troops sent to China during
      continuous flare-ups.

      Cuba - 1912 - Troops sent in to protect American
      interests in Havana.

      Panama - 1912 - Marines landed during Panama's
      election.

      Honduras - 1912 - Troops sent in to protect American
      interests.

      Nicaragua - 1912-33 - Troops occupied Nicaragua and
      fought guerrillas during its 20-year civil war.

      Mexico - 1913 - Navy evacuated Americans during
      revolution.

      Dominican Rep 1914 - Navy fought with rebels over
      Santo Domingo.

      Mexico - 1914-18 - Navy and troops sent in to
      intervene against nationalists.

      Haiti - 1914-34 - Troops occupied Haiti after a
      revolution and occupied Haiti for 19 years.

      Dominican Rep 1916-24 - Marines occupied the Dominican
      Republic for eight years.

      Cuba - 1917-33 - Troops landed and occupied Cuba for
      16 years; Cuba became an economic protectorate.

      World War I - 1917-18 - Navy and Army sent to Europe
      to fight the Axis powers.

      Russia - 1918-22 - Navy and troops sent to eastern
      Russia after the Bolshevik Revolution; Army made five
      landings.

      Honduras - 1919 - Marines sent during Honduras'
      national elections.

      Guatemala - 1920 - Troops occupied Guatemala for two
      weeks during a union strike.

      Turkey - 1922 - Troops fought nationalists in Smyrna.

      China - 1922-27 - Navy and Army troops deployed during
      a nationalist revolt.

      Honduras - 1924-25 - Troops landed twice during a
      national election.

      Panama - 1925 - Troops sent in to put down a general
      strike.

      China - 1927-34 - Marines sent in and stationed for
      seven years throughout China.

      El Salvador - 1932 - Naval warships deployed during
      the FMLN revolt under Marti.

      World War II - 1941-45 - Military fought the Axis
      powers: Japan, Germany, and Italy.

      Yugoslavia - 1946 - Navy deployed off the coast of
      Yugoslavia in response to the downing of an American
      plane.

      Uruguay - 1947 - Bombers deployed as a show of
      military force.

      Greece - 1947-49 - United States operations insured a
      victory for the far right in national "elections."

      Germany - 1948 - Military deployed in response to the
      Berlin blockade; the Berlin airlift lasts 444 days.

      Philippines - 1948-54 - The CIA directed a civil war
      against the Filipino Huk revolt.

      Puerto Rico - 1950 - Military helped crush an
      independence rebellion in Ponce.

      Korean War - 1951-53 - Military sent in during the
      war.

      Iran - 1953 - The CIA orchestrated the overthrow of
      democratically elected Mossadegh and restored the Shah
      to power.

      Vietnam - 1954 - The United States offered weapons to
      the French in the battle against Ho Chi Minh and the
      Viet Minh.

      Guatemala - 1954 - The CIA overthrew the
      democratically elected Arbenz and placed Colonel Armas
      in power.

      Egypt - 1956 - Marines deployed to evacuate foreigners
      after Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal.

      Lebanon - 1958 - Navy supported an Army occupation of
      Lebanon during its civil war.

      Panama - 1958 - Troops landed after Panamanians
      demonstrations threatened the Canal Zone.

      Vietnam - 1950s-75 - Vietnam War.

      Cuba - 1961 - The CIA-directed Bay of Pigs invasions
      failed to overthrow the Castro government.

      Cuba - 1962 - The Navy quarantines Cuba during the
      Cuban Missile Crisis.

      Laos - 1962 - Military occupied Laos during its civil
      war against the Pathet Lao guerrillas.

      Panama - 1964 - Troops sent in and Panamanians shot
      while protesting the United States presence in the
      Canal Zone.

      Indonesia - 1965 - The CIA orchestrated a military
      coup.

      Dominican Rep- 1965-66 - Troops deployed during a
      national election.

      Guatemala - 1966-67 - Green Berets sent in.

      Cambodia - 1969-75 - Military sent in after the
      Vietnam War expanded into Cambodia.

      Oman - 1970 - Marines landed to direct a possible
      invasion into Iran.

      Laos - 1971-75 - Americans carpet-bomb the countryside
      during Laos' civil war.

      Chile - 1973 - The CIA orchestrated a coup, killing
      President Allende who had been popularly elected. The
      CIA helped to establish a military regime under
      General Pinochet.

      Cambodia - 1975 - Twenty-eight Americans killed in an
      effort to retrieve the crew of the Mayaquez, which had
      been seized.

      Angola - 1976-92 - The CIA backed South African rebels
      fighting against Marxist Angola.

      Iran - 1980 - Americans aborted a rescue attempt to
      liberate 52 hostages seized in the Teheran embassy.

      Libya - 1981 - American fighters shoot down two Libyan
      fighters.

      El Salvador - 1981-92 - The CIA, troops, and advisers
      aid in El Salvador's war against the FMLN.

      Nicaragua - 1981-90 - The CIA and NSC directed the
      Contra War against the Sandinistas.

      Lebanon - 1982-84 - Marines occupied Beirut during
      Lebanon's civil war; 241 were killed in the American
      barracks and Reagan
      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii American war crimes continued IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 14:10
        Lebanon - 1982-84 - Marines occupied Beirut during
        Lebanon's civil war; 241 were killed in the American
        barracks and Reagan "redeployed" the troops to the
        Mediterranean.

        Honduras - 1983-89 - Troops sent in to build bases
        near the Honduran border.

        Grenada - 1983-84 - American invasion overthrew the
        Maurice Bishop government.

        Iran - 1984 - American fighters shot down two Iranian
        planes over the Persian Gulf.

        Libya - 1986 - American fighters hit targets in and
        around the capital city of Tripoli.

        Bolivia - 1986 - The Army assisted government troops
        on raids of cocaine areas.

        Iran - 1987-88 - The United States intervened on the
        side of Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War.

        Libya - 1989 - Navy shot down two more Libyan jets.

        Virgin Islands - 1989 - Troops landed during unrest
        among Virgin Island peoples.

        Philippines - 1989 - Air Force provided air cover for
        government during coup.

        Panama - 1989-90 - 27,000 Americans landed in
        overthrow of President Noriega; over 2,000 Panama
        civilians were killed.

        Liberia - 1990 - Troops entered Liberia to evacuate
        foreigners during civil war.

        Saudi Arabia - 1990-91 - American troops sent to Saudi
        Arabia, which was a staging area in the war against
        Iraq.

        Kuwait - 1991 - Troops sent into Kuwait to turn back
        Saddam Hussein.

        Somalia - 1992-94 - Troops occupied Somalia during
        civil war.

        Bosnia - 1993-95 - Air Force jets bombed "no-fly zone"
        during civil war in Yugoslavia.

        Haiti - 1994-96 - American troops and Navy provided a
        blockade against Haiti's military government. The CIA
        restored Aristide to power.

        Zaire - 1996-97 - Marines sent into Rwanda Hutus'
        refugee camps in the area where the Congo revolution
        began.

        Albania - 1997 - Troops deployed during evacuation of
        foreigners.

        Sudan - 1998 - American missiles destroyed a
        pharmaceutical complex where alleged nerve gas
        components were manufactured.

        Afghanistan - 1998 - Missiles launched towards alleged
        Afghan terrorist training camps.

        Yugoslavia - 1999 - Bombings and missile attacks
        carried out by the United States in conjunction with
        NATO in the 11 week war against Milosevic.

        Iraq - 1998-2001 - Missiles launched into Baghdad and
        other large Iraq cities for four days. American jets
        enforced "no-fly zone" and continued to hit Iraqi
        targets since December 1998.

        These **100** instances of American military
        intervention did not include times when the United
        States:

        (1) deployed military police overseas;

        (2) mobilized the National Guard;

        (3) sent Navy ships off the coast of numerous
        countries as a show of strength;

        (4) sent additional troops to areas where Americans
        were already stationed;

        (5) carried out covert actions where American forces
        were not under the direct rule of an American command;


        (6) used small hostage rescue units;

        (7) used American pilots to fly foreign planes;

        (8) carried out military training and advisory
        programs which did not involve direct combat.


        • Gość: GT Re: American war crimes continued IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 22:15
          Which of this conflict would not happened without Americans?
          Where Americans comitted crimes? (as you know international legal standarts
          require CONVICTION to accept claim of criminality)
          How conduct of America compares to conduct of other parties of conflict?
          What were the consequences of American involvement and how does it compare with
          the consequences of LACK of American involvement.

          We can have meaningfull discusion on interpretation of the events after you
          aswer this questions for each conflict you mentioned.
      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii American assasinations IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 14:12
        Following is a list of prominent foreign leaders whose assassination
        (or planning for same) the United States has been involved in since
        the end of Second World War. The list does not include several
        assassinations in various parts of the world carried out by anti-Castro
        Cubans employed by CIA and headquartered in the United States:

        LIST A: NON MUSLIMS

        1949 - KIm Koo, Korean opposition leader
        1950's - CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of numerous political figures in
        West Germany
        1955 - Jose' Antonio Remon, President of Panama
        1950's Chou En-lai, Prime Minister of China, several attempts
        on his life
        1951 - Kim Il Sung, Premiere of North Korea
        1950s (mid) - Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader
        1955 - Jawar Lal Nehru, Prime Minister of India
        1959 and 1963 - Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia
        1950s-70s - Jose Figueres, President of Costa Rica,
        two attempts on his life
        1961 - Francois "Papa Doc"Duvalier, leader of Haiti
        1961 - Patrice Lumumba , Prime Minister of Congo (Zaire)
        1961 - Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
        1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam
        1960s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, more than
        15 attempts on his life
        1960s - Raul Castro, high official in government of Cuba
        1965 - Francisco Caamanao, Dominican Republic opposition leader
        1965 - Pierre Ngendandumwe, Prime Minister of Burundi
        1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France
        1967 - Che Guevara, Cuban leader
        1970 - Salvadore Allende, President of Chile
        1970 - General Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile
        1970s and 1981 - Gen. Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama
        1972 - General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence
        1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
        1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica
        1983 - Miguel d'Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
        1984 - The nine commandantes of the Sandanista
        National Directorate
        1980's - Dr. Gerald Bull, Canadian Ballistics Scientist
        assassinated by Mossad in Belgium.

        Partial List of Muslim Leaders Assassinated or
        Attempted Assassinations
        1950's Sukarno, President of Indonesia
        1957 Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt
        1960 Brigadier General, Abdul Karim Kassem, Leader of Iraq
        1980-86 Muammar Qaddafi, Leader of Libya, several plots and
        attempts upon his life
        1982 Ayatullah Khomeini, Leader of Iran
        1983 General Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan army Commander
        1985 Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadllallah, Lebanese Shiite Leader
        (80 people killed in that attempt)
        1991 Saddam Hussein, Leader of Iraq
        Reference: Blum, William, "KILLING HOPE - U.S. Military and
        CIA Interventions Since World War II," Appendix III
        U.S. Government Assassination Plots, page 453,
        Common Courage Press, Monroe, Maine 1995. ISBN 1-56751-052-3

        Very likely Victims :
        April 4, 1979 - Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Leader of Pakistan, for pursuing
        making
        of
        Nuclear Bomb.
        August, 1988. General Ziaul Haq, Military Leader of Pakistan.
        1995 - Murtaza Bhutto, Son of ZUlfiqar Ali Bhutto, Anti-American
        would-be Leader - Pakistan.
        March 25, 1975 - King Faisal of Saudi Arabia through his Nephew, Saudi
        Arabia
        for imposing 1973 Oil Embargo.
        August 24, 1999. Mullah Mohammad Omar, in Kandhar, Afghanistan.
        |
        "?List of Known Assassination Plots
        1950's Sukarno, President of Indonesia
        1957 Gamal Abdul Nasser, President
        2001 Since early this year more than 40 Palestinian leaders
        assassinated
        through surrogate Israel.
        • Gość: GT Re: American assasinations IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 22:23
          > 1950's Chou En-lai, Prime Minister of China, several attempts
          > on his life
          > 1951 - Kim Il Sung, Premiere of North Korea
          > 1961 - Francois "Papa Doc"Duvalier, leader of Haiti
          > 1961 - Patrice Lumumba , Prime Minister of Congo (Zaire)
          > 1961 - Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
          > 1960s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, more than
          > 15 attempts on his life
          > 1960s - Raul Castro, high official in government of Cuba
          > 1965 - Pierre Ngendandumwe, Prime Minister of Burundi
          > 1967 - Che Guevara, Cuban leader
          > 1970 - General Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile
          > 1972 - General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence
          > 1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
          > 1983 - Miguel d'Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
          > 1984 - The nine commandantes of the Sandanista

          Tell me who of above did not commit crimes justifying assasination?

          > 1960 Brigadier General, Abdul Karim Kassem, Leader of Iraq
          > 1980-86 Muammar Qaddafi, Leader of Libya, several plots and
          > attempts upon his life
          > 1982 Ayatullah Khomeini, Leader of Iran
          > 1985 Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadllallah, Lebanese Shiite Leader
          > 1991 Saddam Hussein, Leader of Iraq
          > August 24, 1999. Mullah Mohammad Omar, in Kandhar, Afghanistan.

          Which of this "leaders" whould you liek to protect?
      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii American "humanitarianism" IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 14:14
        1- "It's really not a number I'm terribly interested in." -General
        Colin
        Powell [When asked about the number of Iraqi people who were
        slaughtered
        by Americans in the 1991 "Desert Storm" terror campaign (200,000
        people!)]

        2- "I will never apologize for the United States of America - I don't
        care
        what the facts are." -President George Bush 1988 [Bush was
        demonstrating
        his patriotism by excusing an act of cold-blooded mass-murder by the
        U.S.
        Navy. On July 3, 1988 the U.S. Navy warship Vincennes shot down an
        Iranian
        commercial airliner. All 290 civilian people in the aircraft were
        killed.
        The plane was on a routine flight in a commercial corridor in Iranian
        airspace. The targeting of it by the U.S. Navy was blatantly illegal.
        That
        it was grossly immoral is also obvious. Except to a patriot.]

        3- "To maintain this position of disparity (U.S. economic-military
        supremacy)... we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and
        day-dreaming.... We should cease to talk about vague and... unreal
        objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standard and
        democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to
        deal
        in straight power concepts.... The less we are then hampered by
        idealistic
        slogans, the better." -George Kennan [Director of Policy Planning U.S.
        State Department 1948]

        4- "If they turn on the radars we're going to blow up their goddamn
        SAMs
        (surface-to-air missiles). They know we own their country. We own their
        airspace... We dictate the way they live and talk. And that's what's
        great
        about America right now. It's a good thing, especially when there's a
        lot
        of oil out there we need." -U.S. Brig. General William Looney
        (Interview
        Washington Post, August 30, 1999) [Referring, in reality, to the brutal
        mass-murder of hundreds of civilian Iraqi men, women and children
        during
        10,000 sorties by American/British war criminals in the first eight
        months
        of 1999]

        5- "The greatest crime since World War II has been U.S. foreign
        policy."
        -Ramsey Clark [Former U.S. Attorney General under President Lyndon
        Johnson]

        6- "I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar
        soaked fingers out of the business of these [Third World] nations so
        full
        of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their
        own. And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type
        because the "haves" refuse to share with the "have-nots" by any
        peaceful
        method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American
        style, which they don't want and above all don't want crammed down
        their
        throats by Americans." -General David Sharp [Former United States
        Marine
        Commandant 1966]

        7- "We have no honorable intentions in Vietnam. Our minimal expectation
        is
        to occupy it as an American colony and maintain social stability for
        our
        investments. This tells why American helicopters are being used against
        guerrillas in Colombia and Peru. Increasingly the role our nation has
        taken is the role of those who refuse to give up the privileges and
        pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investment."
        -Martin Luther King, Jr. ["A Time to Break the Silence" speech given at
        Riverside Church New York City April 4, 1967]

        8- "Death squads have been created and used by the CIA around the world
        -
        particularly the Third World - since the late 1940s, a fact ignored by
        the
        elite-owned media." -Ralph McGehee [Former CIA analyst & Author]
        CIABASE;
        The Crisis of Democracy Deadly Deceits: My 25 years in the CIA

        9- "The U.S.A. has supplied arms, security equipment and training to
        governments and armed groups that have committed torture, political
        killings and other human rights abuses in countries around the world."
        -Amnesty International ["United States of America - Rights for All"
        October 1998]

        10- "We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most
        completely
        controlled and dominated Governments in the world - no longer a
        Government
        of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the
        majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of
        dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson [U.S. President during World War I]

        11- "We must become the owners, or at any rate the controllers at the
        source, of at least a proportion of the oil which we require." -
        British
        Royal Commission, agreeing with Winston Churchill's policy towards
        Iraq,
        1913

        12- "What we want to have in existence, what we ought to have been
        creating in this time is some administration with Arab institutions
        which
        we can safely leave while pulling the strings ourselves; something that
        won't cost very much, which the Labour government can swallow
        consistent
        with its' principles, but under which our economic and political
        interests
        will be secure. [.....] If the French remain in Syria we shall have to
        avoid giving them the excuse of setting up a protectorate. If they go,
        or
        if we appear to be reactionary in Mesopotamia, there is always the risk
        that [King] Faisal will encourage the Americans to take over both, and
        it
        should be borne in mind that the Standard Oil company is very anxious
        to
        take over Iraq." - Sir Arthur Hirtzel, Head of the British government's
        'India Office Political Department.' 1919

        13- "If war aims are stated which seem to be solely concerned with
        Anglo-American imperialism, they will offer little to people in the
        rest
        of the world. The interests of other peoples should be stressed. This
        would have a better propaganda effect." - Private memo from The Council
        of
        Foreign Relations to the US State Department, 1941

        14- "Our strategic and security interests throughout the world will be
        best safeguarded by the establishment in suitable spots of 'Police
        Stations', fully equipped to deal with emergencies within a large
        radius.
        Kuwait is one such spot from which Iraq, South Persia, Saudi Arabia and
        the Persian Gulf could be controlled. It will be worthwhile to go to
        considerable trouble and expense to establish and man a 'Police
        Station'
        there." - British Foreign Office, policy memo, 1947

        15- ?We have about 60% of the world?s wealth but only 6.3% of its?
        population. In this situation we cannot fail to be the object of envy
        and
        resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern
        of
        relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of
        disparity.
        We need not deceive ourselves that we can afford today the luxury of
        altruism and world benefaction. We should cease to talk about such
        vague
        and unreal objectives as human rights, the raising of living standards
        and
        democratisation. The day is not far off when we are going to have to
        deal
        in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic
        slogans, the better." - George Kennan, former Head of the US State
        Department Policy Planning Staff, Document PPS23, 24th February 1948

        16- "I came to America because of the great, great freedom which I
        heard
        existed in this country. I made a mistake in selecting America as a
        land
        of freedom, a mistake I cannot repair in the balance of my lifetime."
        -Albert Einstein, 1947

        17- "The target suffered a terminal illness before a firing squad in
        Baghdad." - CIA officer testifying to US Senate hearing, after bloody
        CIA
        aided Ba'th Party coup overthrew Iraqi Prime Minister Abdel Kassem,
        1963

        18- "Strikes at population targets (per se) are likely not only to
        create
        a counterproductive wave of revulsion abroad and at home, but greatly
        to
        increase the risk of enlarging the war with China and the Soviet Union.
        Destruction of locks and dams, however ? if handled right ? might offer
        promise. It should be studied. Such destruction does not kill or drown
        people. By shallow-flooding the rice, it leads after time to widespread
        starvation (more than a million) unless food is provided
        • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: American 'humanitarianism' IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 14:16
          18- "Strikes at population targets (per se) are likely not only to
          create
          a counterproductive wave of revulsion abroad and at home, but greatly
          to
          increase the risk of enlarging the war with China and the Soviet Union.
          Destruction of locks and dams, however ? if handled right ? might offer
          promise. It should be studied. Such destruction does not kill or drown
          people. By shallow-flooding the rice, it leads after time to widespread
          starvation (more than a million) unless food is provided ? which we
          could
          offer to do ?at the conference table?." - John McNaughton, US State
          Department Vietnam policy, as quoted in ?The Mentality of the Backroom
          Boys.? Article by Noam Chomsky, 1973

          19- "The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows
          its? determination to continue to be a world power." - Henry Kissinger,
          post-Vietnam blues, as quoted in The Washington Post, April 1975

          20- "It would not have been possible for a political party to be more
          committed to a national home for the Jews in Palestine than was
          Labour." -
          Harold Wilson, former British Labour Party Prime Minister, 1981

          21- "One hundred nations in the UN have not agreed with us on just
          about
          everything that's come before them, where we're involved, and it didn't
          upset my breakfast at all." - Ronald Reagan, former US President,
          basking
          in the triumph that was the US invasion of Grenada, 1983

          22- Q. "Mr. President, have you approved of covert activity to
          destablise
          the present government of Nicaragua?" A. "Well, no, we're supporting
          them,
          the - oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm sorry, I was thinking of El
          Salvador, because of the previous, when you said Nicaragua. Here again,
          this is something upon which the national security interests, I just -
          I
          will not comment." - Ronald Reagan, former US President, Washington
          press
          conference, February 13th, 1983, as quoted by John Pilger in 'Heroes'

          23- "After seeing 'RAMBO' last night, I know what to do the next time
          this
          happens." - Ronald Reagan, former US President, as reported by Daily
          Express, July 2nd, 1985

          24- "Aerosol DU (Depleted Uranium) exposures to soldiers on the
          battlefield could be significant with potential radiological and
          toxicological effects. [...] Under combat conditions, the most exposed
          individuals are probably ground troops that re-enter a battlefield
          following the exchange of armour-piercing munitions. [...] We are
          simply
          highlighting the potential for levels of DU exposure to military
          personnel
          during combat that would be unacceptable during peacetime operations.
          [...DU is..]... a low level alpha radiation emitter which is linked to
          cancer when exposures are internal, [and] chemical toxicity causing
          kidney
          damage. [...] Short term effects of high doses can result in death,
          while
          long term effects of low doses have been linked to cancer. [...] Our
          conclusion regarding the health and environmental acceptability of DU
          penetrators assume both controlled use and the presence of excellent
          health physics management practices. Combat conditions will lead to the
          uncontrolled release of DU. [...] The conditions of the battlefield,
          and the
          long term health risks to natives and combat veterans may become issues
          in
          the acceptability of the continued use of DU kinetic penetrators for
          military applications." - Excerpts from the July 1990 Science and
          Applications International Corporation report: ' Kinetic Energy
          Penetrator
          Environment and Health Considerations', as included in Appenix D - US
          Army
          Armaments, Munitions and Chemical Command report: 'Kinetic Energy
          Penetrator Long Term Strategy Study, July 1990' These documents state
          clearly and equivocally that the US army was well aware of the
          radioactive
          and toxic dangers of Depleted Uranium ammunition long before the first
          shots of the war were fired.

          25- "We do not have any defence treaties with Kuwait, and there are no
          special defence or security commitments to Kuwait." - Margaret
          Tutweiller,
          US State Department spokeswoman, 24th July 1990, nine days before
          Iraq's
          invasion of Kuwait

          References
          • Gość: GT Re: American 'humanitarianism' IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 22:38
          • Gość: GT Re: American 'humanitarianism' IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 22:41
            Nothing better expresses freedom and diversity of America than the list you
            submitted. Give me example of other country which would alow so much criticism
            without repression so many divergent views without descending into civil war.
    • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii America a rogue nation IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 14:19
      . In December 2001, the United States officially withdrew from the
      1972
      Antiballistic Missile Treaty, gutting the landmark agreement-the first
      time in the nuclear era that the US renounced a major arms control
      accord.

      2. 1972 Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention ratified by 144 nations
      including the United States. In July 2001 the US walked out of a London
      conference to discuss a 1994 protocol designed to strengthen the
      Convention by providing for
      on-site inspections. At Geneva in November 2001, US Undersecretary of
      State John Bolton stated that "the protocol
      is dead," at the same time accusing Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya,
      Sudan,
      and Syria of violating the Convention but offering no specific
      allegations
      or supporting evidence.

      3. UN Agreement to Curb the International Flow of Illicit Small Arms,
      July
      2001: the US was the only nation to oppose it.

      4. April 2001, the US was not reelected to the UN Human Rights
      Commission,
      after years of withholding dues to the UN (including current dues of
      $244
      million)-and after having forced the UN to lower its share of the UN
      budget from 25 to 22 percent. (In the Human Rights Commission, the US
      stood virtually alone in opposing resolutions supporting lower-cost
      access to HIV/AIDS drugs, acknowledging a basic human right to adequate
      food, and calling for a moratorium on the death penalty.)

      5. International Criminal Court (ICC) Treaty, to be set up in The Hague
      to
      try political leaders and military personnel charged with war crimes
      and
      crimes against humanity. Signed in Rome in July 1998, the Treaty was
      approved by 120 countries, with 7 opposed (including the US). In
      October
      2001 Great Britain became the 42nd nation to sign. In December 2001 the
      US Senate again added an amendment to a military appropriations bill
      that
      would keep US military personnel from obeying
      the jurisdiction of the proposed ICC. [In fact advocating use of force
      to
      "rescue" Americans charged with war crimes - RR]

      6. Land Mine Treaty, banning land mines; signed in Ottawa in December
      1997
      by 122 nations. The United States refused to sign, along with Russia,
      China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Vietnam, Egypt, and Turkey.
      President
      Clinton rejected the Treaty, claiming that mines were needed to protect
      South Korea against North Korea's overwhelming military advantage." He
      stated that the US would "eventually" comply, in 2006; this was
      disavowed
      by President Bush in August 2001.

      7. Kyoto Protocol of 1997, for controlling global warming: declared
      "dead"
      by President Bush in March 2001. In November 2001, the Bush
      administration
      shunned negotiations in Marrakech (Morocco) to revise the accord,
      mainly
      by watering it down in a vain attempt to gain US approval.

      8. In May 2001, refused to meet with European Union nations to discuss,
      even at lower levels of government, economic espionage and electronic
      surveillance of phone calls, e-mail, and faxes (the US "Echelon"
      program).

      9. Refused to participate in Organization for Economic Co-operation and
      Development (OECD)-sponsored talks in Paris, May 2001, on ways to crack
      down on off-shore and other tax and money-laundering havens.

      10. Refused to join 123 nations pledged to ban the use and production
      of
      anti-personnel bombs and mines, February 2001.

      11. September 2001: withdrew from International Conference on Racism,
      bringing together 163 countries in Durban, South Africa

      12. International Plan for Cleaner Energy: G-8 group of industrial
      nations
      (US, Canada, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, Italy, UK), July 2001: the
      US
      was the only one to oppose it.

      13. Enforcing an illegal boycott of Cuba, now being made tighter. In
      the
      UN in October 2001, the General Assembly
      passed a resolution, for the tenth consecutive year, calling for an end
      to
      the US embargo, by a vote of 167 to 3 (the US, Israel, and the Marshall
      Islands in opposition).

      14. Comprehensive [Nuclear] Test Ban Treaty. Signed by 164 nations and
      ratified by 89 including France, Great Britain, and Russia; signed by
      President Clinton in 1996 but rejected by the Senate in 1999. The US is
      one of 13 nonratifiers among countries that have nuclear weapons or
      nuclear power programs. In November 2001, the US forced a vote in the
      UN
      Committee on Disarmament and Security to demonstrate its opposition to
      the
      Test Ban Treaty.

      15. In 1986 the International Court of Justice (The Hague) ruled that
      the
      US was in violation of international law for "unlawful use of force" in
      Nicaragua, through its actions and those of its Contra proxy army. The
      US
      refused to recognize the Court's jurisdiction. A UN resolution calling
      for
      compliance with the Court's decision was approved 94-2 (US and Israel
      voting no).

      16. In 1984 the US quit UNESCO (UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural
      Organization) and ceased its payments for UNESCO's budget, over the New
      World Information and Communication Order (NWICO) project designed to
      lessen world media dependence on the "big four" wire agencies (AP, UPI,
      Agence France-Presse, Reuters). The US charged UNESCO with "curtailment
      of
      press freedom," as well as mismanagement and other faults, despite a
      148-1
      in vote in favor of NWICO in the UN. UNESCO terminated NWICO in 1989;
      the
      US nonetheless refused to rejoin. In 1995 the Clinton
      administration proposed rejoining; the move was blocked in Congress and
      Clinton did not press the issue. In February 2000 the US finally paid
      some
      of its arrears to the UN but excluded UNESCO, which the US has not
      rejoined.

      17. Optional Protocol, 1989, to the UN's International Covenant on
      Civil
      and Political Rights, aimed at abolition of the death penalty and
      containing a provision banning the execution of those under 18. The US
      has
      neither signed nor ratified and specifically exempts itself from the
      latter provision, making it one of five countries that still execute
      juveniles (with Saudi
      Arabia, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iran, Nigeria). China abolished
      the
      practice in 1997, Pakistan in 2000.

      18. 1979 UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of
      Discrimination
      against Women. The only countries that have signed but not ratified are
      the US, Afghanistan, Sao Tome and Principe.

      19. The US has signed but not ratified the 1989 UN Convention on the
      Rights of the Child, which protects the economic and social rights of
      children. The only other country not to ratify is Somalia, which has no
      functioning government.

      20. UN International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights,
      1966, covering a wide range of rights and monitored by the Committee on
      Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. The US signed in 1977 but has not
      ratified.

      21. UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of
      Genocide, 1948. The US finally ratified in 1988, adding several
      "reservations" to the effect that the US Constitution and the "advice
      and
      consent" of the Senate are required to judge whether any "acts in the
      course of armed conflict" constitute genocide. The reservations are
      rejected by Britain, Italy, Denmark, the Netherlands, Spain, Greece,
      Mexico, Estonia, and others.

      22. Is the status of "we're number one!" Rogue overcome by generous
      foreign aid to given less fortunate countries? The three best aid
      providers, measured by the foreign aid percentage of their gross
      domestic
      products, are Denmark (1.01%), Norway (0.91%), and the Netherlands
      (0.79),
      The three worst: USA (0.10%), UK (0.23%), Australia, Portugal, and
      Austria
      (all
      0.26).

      • Gość: GT Re: America a rogue nation IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 22:54
        Again, to have meaningful discussion you need to answer some questions.

        1. Is the burden of treaty equally distributed betweem nations or put on the
        shoulders of US?

        2. Is it likely that treaty is enforcable in all countries including those -
        like Iraq or Korea - which blatantly refuse to comply with UN resolutions?

        3. What resources are alocated to enforce the treaty? Usually nobody cares and
        expects US to deal with all problems.

        After answering this questions for each treaty you mentioned, we can get out of
        propaganda into real discussion.
    • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii America is evil IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 14:21
      It refuses to sign a treaty banning land mines.

      It refuses to sign the Kyoto Accords, limiting greenhouse gasses.

      It uses cluster bombs
      • Gość: GT Re: America is evil IP: 65.90.124.* 16.01.03, 23:29
        Gość portalu: Polak_w_Koreii napisał(a):

        > It refuses to sign a treaty banning land mines.

        UN can't enforce ban on weapons of mass destruction in one country like Iraq,
        how can you imagine enforcing this ban - without enfoorcement it's useless.

        > It refuses to sign the Kyoto Accords, limiting greenhouse gasses.

        Which of countries which signed protocol actually limited CO2 emission? Why so
        many countries (whith least eficient energy use) got excluded? Why countries
        like Ukraine or Poland with coal dependend industry would get money from the
        protocol while US using cleaned technologies would have to pay.

        > It uses cluster

        Did not use them since Wietnam.

        > It has 30,000 tons of chemical weapons.

        It newer used them. As oposed to Germany or France.

        > It has the world's largest stockpile of nuclear weapons. It refuses to
        > sign the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.

        Another unenforcable treaty, waste of ink - what did US do to countries which
        broke it - nothing.

        > It refuses to renounce the first strike use of nuclear weapons.

        Are you really so stupid thinkig that in desperate situation any country will
        be stopped by piece of paper - it newer worked.

        > It is the only country to ever use nuclear weapons.

        In defense of Korea and China. Victim of this strikes happens to be the best
        American ally in Asia - Let me assure you Japanes prefer American victory over
        war they started.

        > In one major campaign lasting over ten years (Vietnam War), it carpet
        > bombed three countries (North Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos), killing at
        > least three million civilians.

        Another lie, 3 milion is total count of victims of Vietnam war. 3/4 of them are
        victims of Viet Cong. Were americans responsble for Aushwitz - they
        participated in WWII.

        > It issues ultimata to other countries (Yugoslavia, Afghanistan), and
        > when
        > the ultimata are rejected, it says the other side refused to negotiate.
        > When the other side begs to negotiate, it's bombed.

        When did you read something last time. Was it "elementarz", I dought you have
        seen any newspaper recently.


        > If it doesn't like another country's economic policies, it tars the
        > leadership as tyrants and brutes, declares the country a dictatorship,
        > and
        > raises concern about human rights violations (Yugoslavia, Belarus)

        I strongly suggest for you to move to Yugoslavia or Belarus. And experience
        first hand stellar economic policies as well as respect to human rights.

        > It routinely intervenes in the elections of other countries, funding
        > political parties, NGO's and media, but prohibits other countries from
        > intervening in its own elections.

        Because US don't beg for funding, NGO suport and has independent media. Do this
        and US interventions will not matter.

        > It commits war crimes unrestrainedly, free from censure and
        > prosecution,
        > because it controls the international body that establishes war crimes
        > tribunals. It refuses to sign a treaty to establish a international
        > criminal court that could prosecute war crimes free from its
        > interference.

        Another body with no legitimacy (who ELECTS international tribunal?), no
        independent legislature (whom do LAMAKERS represent?), with no power to enforce
        laws (who will catch and prosecute vilains - Americans?).

        If US signs you will call criminal court pupet of America when it only try your
        favorites like Saddam.

        > Its media is described as practicing "suck-up" journalism, afraid to be
        > too critical of the country's leadership, for fear of being frozen out
        > and
        > refused access to "news makers." The media regards itself as duty-bound
        > by
        > patriotism to assist in the production and dissemination of propaganda
        > in
        > times of war, a now permanent condition.

        Go above and find long list of citations posted by my friend Polak-in-Korea and
        you will see that American press has capacity to criticise and bring
        controversial information rare in other countries.
    • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Americans are terrorist supporters IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 16.01.03, 14:24
      "If any government sponsors the outlaws and killers of innocents,"
      George
      Bush announced on the day he began bombing Afghanistan, "they have
      become
      outlaws and murderers themselves. And they will take that lonely path
      at
      their own peril." I'm glad he said "any government", as there's one
      which,
      though it has yet to be identified as a sponsor of terrorism, requires
      his
      urgent attention.
      For the past 55 years it has been running a terrorist training camp,
      whose
      victims massively outnumber the people killed by the attack on New
      York, the
      embassy bombings and the other atrocities laid, rightly or wrongly, at
      al-Qaida's door. The camp is called the Western Hemisphere Institute
      for
      Security Cooperation, or Whisc. It is based in Fort Benning, Georgia,
      and it
      is funded by Mr Bush's government.

      Until January this year, Whisc was called the "School of the Americas",
      or
      SOA. Since 1946, SOA has trained more than 60,000 Latin American
      soldiers
      and policemen. Among its graduates are many of the continent's most
      notorious torturers, mass murderers, dictators and state terrorists. As
      hundreds of pages of documentation compiled by the pressure group SOA
      Watch
      show, Latin America has been ripped apart by its alumni.

      In June this year, Colonel Byron Lima Estrada, once a student at the
      school,
      was convicted in Guatemala City of murdering Bishop Juan Gerardi in
      1998.
      Gerardi was killed because he had helped to write a report on the
      atrocities
      committed by Guatemala's D-2, the military intelligence agency run by
      Lima
      Estrada with the help of two other SOA graduates. D-2 coordinated the
      "anti-insurgency" campaign which obliterated 448 Mayan Indian villages,
      and
      murdered tens of thousands of their people. Forty per cent of the
      cabinet
      ministers who served the genocidal regimes of Lucas Garcia, Rios Montt
      and
      Mejia Victores studied at the School of the Americas.

      In 1993, the United Nations truth commission on El Salvador named the
      army
      officers who had committed the worst atrocities of the civil war.
      Two-thirds
      of them had been trained at the School of the Americas. Among them were
      Roberto D'Aubuisson, the leader of El Salvador's death squads; the men
      who
      killed Archbishop Oscar Romero; and 19 of the 26 soldiers who murdered
      the
      Jesuit priests in 1989. In Chile, the school's graduates ran both
      Augusto
      Pinochet's secret police and his three principal concentration camps.
      One of
      them helped to murder Orlando Letelier and Ronni Moffit in Washington
      DC in
      1976.

      Argentina's dictators Roberto Viola and Leopoldo Galtieri, Panama's
      Manuel
      Noriega and Omar Torrijos, Peru's Juan Velasco Alvarado and Ecuador's
      Guillermo Rodriguez all benefited from the school's instruction. So did
      the
      leader of the Grupo Colina death squad in Fujimori's Peru; four of the
      five
      officers who ran the infamous Battalion 3-16 in Honduras (which
      controlled
      the death squads there in the 1980s) and the commander responsible for
      the
      1994 Ocosingo massacre in Mexico.

      All this, the school's defenders insist, is ancient history. But SOA
      graduates are also involved in the dirty war now being waged, with US
      support, in Colombia. In 1999 the US State Department's report on human
      rights named two SOA graduates as the murderers of the peace
      commissioner,
      Alex Lopera. Last year, Human Rights Watch revealed that seven former
      pupils
      are running paramilitary groups there and have commissioned
      kidnappings,
      disappearances, murders and massacres. In February this year an SOA
      graduate
      in Colombia was convicted of complicity in the torture and killing of
      30
      peasants by paramilitaries. The school is now drawing more of its
      students
      from Colombia than from any other country.

      The FBI defines terrorism as "violent acts... intended to intimidate or
      coerce a civilian population, influence the policy of a government, or
      affect the conduct of a government", which is a precise description of
      the
      activities of SOA's graduates. But how can we be sure that their alma
      mater
      has had any part in this? Well, in 1996, the US government was forced
      to
      release seven of the school's training manuals. Among other top tips
      for
      terrorists, they recommended blackmail, torture, execution and the
      arrest of
      witnesses' relatives.

      Last year, partly as a result of the campaign run by SOA Watch, several
      US
      congressmen tried to shut the school down. They were defeated by 10
      votes.
      Instead, the House of Representatives voted to close it and then
      immediately
      reopen it under a different name. So, just as Windscale turned into
      Sellafield in the hope of parrying public memory, the School of the
      Americas
      washed its hands of the past by renaming itself Whisc. As the school's
      Colonel Mark Morgan informed the Department of Defense just before the
      vote
      in Congress: "Some of your bosses have told us that they can't support
      anything with the name 'School of the Americas' on it. Our proposal
      addresses this concern. It changes the name." Paul Coverdell, the
      Georgia
      senator who had fought to save the school, told the papers that the
      changes
      were "basically cosmetic".

      But visit Whisc's website and you'll see that the School of the
      Americas has
      been all but excised from the record. Even the page marked "History"
      fails
      to mention it. Whisc's courses, it tells us, "cover a broad spectrum of
      relevant areas, such as operational planning for peace operations;
      disaster
      relief; civil-military operations; tactical planning and execution of
      counter drug operations".

      Several pages describe its human rights initiatives. But, though they
      account for almost the entire training programme, combat and commando
      techniques, counter-insurgency and interrogation aren't mentioned. Nor
      is
      the fact that Whisc's "peace" and "human rights" options were also
      offered
      by SOA in the hope of appeasing Congress and preserving its budget: but
      hardly any of the students chose to take them.

      We can't expect this terrorist training camp to reform itself: after
      all, it
      refuses even to acknowledge that it has a past, let alone to learn from
      it.
      So, given that the evidence linking the school to continuing atrocities
      in
      Latin America is rather stronger than the evidence linking the al-Qaida
      training camps to the attack on New York, what should we do about the
      "evil-doers" in Fort Benning, Georgia?

      Well, we could urge our governments to apply full diplomatic pressure,
      and
      to seek the extradition of the school's commanders for trial on charges
      of
      complicity in crimes against humanity. Alternatively, we could demand
      that
      our governments attack the United States, bombing its military
      installations, cities and airports in the hope of overthrowing its
      unelected
      government and replacing it with a new administration overseen by the
      UN. In
      case this proposal proves unpopular with the American people, we could
      win
      their hearts and minds by dropping naan bread and dried curry in
      plastic
      bags stamped with the Afghan flag.

      You object that this prescription is ridiculous, and I agree. But try
      as I
      might, I cannot see the moral difference between this course of action
      and
      the war now being waged in Afghanistan.
      • j-k STEK BZDUR "Koreanczyka"... 16.01.03, 23:08
        na calym terytorium USA w momencie przybycia tam bialych,
        mieszkalo ponizej 1 miliona Indian...

        W zwiazku z tym prostym powodem, podanej przez ciebie liczby Indian
        biali zabic nie mogli...
        • jacektengu Re: STEK BZDUR ??? 17.01.03, 05:16
          j-k napisał:

          > na calym terytorium USA w momencie przybycia tam bialych,
          > mieszkalo ponizej 1 miliona Indian...
          >
          > W zwiazku z tym prostym powodem, podanej przez ciebie liczby Indian
          > biali zabic nie mogli...

          To KŁAMSTWO !!!!
          Podaj żródło !!!

          Przeczytaj co napisałeś o demokracji w Ameryce Łacińskiej

          Kto pisze większe bzdury ?
          • Gość: J.K. Jak znajde, zrodlo Ci podam... IP: *.de / 192.120.171.* 17.01.03, 08:32
            1. No co, idzie w Ameryce lacinskiej ku demokracji, czy dyktaturom ?
            W Argentynie, Chile, Brazylii - takie dyktatury ja 20 lat temu,
            dzis nie sa mozliwe....

            2. A Chinska opozycja z ChRL ? - jakiego ustroju pragnie...?
          • Gość: J.K. Jak znajde, zrodlo Ci podam... IP: *.de / 192.120.171.* 17.01.03, 08:34
            Polnoca Ameryka byla bardzo rzadko zaludnionym krajem, gdy przybyli tam biali...

            1. No co, idzie w Ameryce lacinskiej ku demokracji, czy dyktaturom ?
            W Argentynie, Chile, Brazylii - takie dyktatury ja 20 lat temu,
            dzis nie sa mozliwe....

            2. A Chinska opozycja z ChRL ? - jakiego ustroju pragnie...?

            Nie bierz Twoich marzen za rzeczywistosc...
            • jacektengu Wiedzy Ci potrzeba ! 17.01.03, 18:21
              Gość portalu: J.K. napisał(a):

              > Polnoca Ameryka byla bardzo rzadko zaludnionym krajem, gdy przybyli tam
              biali..
              > .
              >
              > 1. No co, idzie w Ameryce lacinskiej ku demokracji, czy dyktaturom ?
              > W Argentynie, Chile, Brazylii - takie dyktatury ja 20 lat temu,
              > dzis nie sa mozliwe....

              Dosłownie Zbankrutowała !!!!
              Dyktatur są możliwe /Chile to wyjątek/
              Troche wiedzy Ci potrzeba

              > 2. A Chinska opozycja z ChRL ? - jakiego ustroju pragnie...?

              W Chinach króluje nacjonalizm !!!
              Opozycja to jest popularna na uniwersytetach w USA i Europie Zachodniej
              To zasięg jej wpływów

              > Nie bierz Twoich marzen za rzeczywistosc...

              Myśl samodzielnie
              Fakty medialne różnią się od rzeczywistości !!!
          • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Holokaust w Ameryce - Indianie IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 17.01.03, 12:49
            Niestetymam do czynienia z klamcami, ktorzy nie potrafia przyznac mi racji. Wy
            tylko klamac potraficie. Ale coz, poczytajcie to co wam teraz napisze. Ciekawe
            jakie bzdury wymyslicie.

            The stories of the white attitude and behavior in colonial and pioneer times in
            the United States and the documented history of genocidal attacks are
            frightening. One such despicable account in American history concerns the Yuki
            Indians of northern California. When the first whites stumbled upon Round
            Valley, near San Francisco, in 1851, there were about 3,500 Yuki residents
            living in the area. Previously, Spanish Californians had preyed on the women
            and children, using them as servants, field hands, and camp wives. The new
            invaders were no more benevolent than their predecessors were. The new
            frontiersmen likewise took the women and children for themselves and for trade
            with the Spanish. California law allowed its citizens to keep Indians as
            indentured servants for as long as fifteen years. Moreover, apprehended
            kidnappers of Indians could not be prosecuted unless there was a white witness
            to testify against them. The federal government moved the Yuki onto fenced
            reservations. White farmers promptly tore down the fences so their livestock
            could graze on the reservation land. The white settlers preferred that the Yuki
            sacrifice their traditional Indian lifeways to the suffering of their own
            livestock. The farmers successfully apportioned more land, forcing the Yuki
            farther into the mountains. When crooked federal agents illegally diverted food
            intended for the reservation population, the hungry Yuki raided the livestock
            herds of the whites. H. L. Hall, cattle supervisor for the Round Valley
            reservation, would not tolerate the theft of livestock by the Indians. In
            organizing a manhunt, Hall reportedly said that no man who would not kill all
            the Indians he encountered should go. On one particular hunt, Hall and his
            group killed 240 Yuki in revenge for the killing of a valuable stallion. That
            same year, 1859, California Governor John B. Weller granted state commissions
            to companies of volunteers that excelled in killing Indians. Weller
            commissioned these volunteers in lieu of federal troops since the troops were
            reported to be on friendly terms with the Yuki. Upon completion of their
            mission to kill the Indians regardless of age or sex, Governor Weller sent his
            congratulations to the volunteers for doing "all that was anticipated," and
            his "sincere thanks for the manner in which it [the campaign] was conducted"
            (Chalk 1990:195). The Yuki population in 1848 of 3,500 individuals was reduced
            to about 400 by 1880.

            Disease, kidnapping, vigilantism, and state-sanctioned mass slaughter of
            American Indians were the means to solving the Indian problem. Other means
            allowed for the destruction of traditional lifeways and starvation. Colonel
            Richard I. Dodge in 1867 at Fort McPherson, Nebraska, advised a group of
            British hunters to "Kill every buffalo you can. Every buffalo dead is an Indian
            gone" (Chalk 1990:198).

            By the end of the nineteenth century, the American Indian people had been
            decimated. United States military records show a minimum of 1,470 official
            incidents of Army action against Indians from 1776 to 1907. The Army, Navy, and
            Marine Corps have all played some role in various Indian conflicts, many of
            which occurred between 1866 and 1891 (Utter 1993:103). Treaties were made,
            regularly broken, frequently altered, or, more often than not, completely
            ignored. The federal and state governments often re-acquired land designated
            for reservations if it was found that the land held significant economic value.
            Such was the case of the Treaty of 1868 with Red Cloud, which assigned South
            Dakota's Black Hills as part of the great Sioux reservation. The subsequent
            discovery of gold, and the ensuing gold rush, however, led to the loss of the
            Black Hills by the Lakota people. The treaty was ignored and the Indians
            remanded to less desirable reservation lands. Embittered Plains Indians of the
            Dakotas, Wyoming, and Montana made last-ditch efforts at protecting their lands
            and rights. Negotiations and warfare were of no consequence against the "Great
            White Father." Ute uprisings in western Colorado were put down. Northern
            Cheyennes were exiled to Oklahoma. General George Armstrong Custer's ill-
            advised attack at the Little Bighorn River in Montana against Crazy Horse,
            Sitting Bull, the Oglalas, and the Cheyennes resulted in Custer's death and
            that of two hundred and twenty-five of his men (Josephy 1968:340). Vine
            Deloria, Jr. included a section on American Indian humor in Custer Died for
            Your Sins, in which he relates the old story that "Custer is said to have
            boasted that he could ride through the entire Sioux nation with his Seventh
            Cavalry and he was half right. He got half-way through" (149). This victory by
            the "savages" increased the government's efforts to further suppress the Indian
            populations. Any organized activity on the part of Indians was held suspect.
            The Ghost Dance ritual of the Nevada Paiutes spread to the Pine Ridge
            Reservation in South Dakota. The dance was a supernatural plea for the
            disappearance of the white man and the reappearance of the buffalo.

            The spiritual activities of the 1870s and -80s provoked the paranoid federal
            government to send in the Army for closer scrutiny of Indian activities
            throughout the Dakota Territory and ultimately led to the massacre at Wounded
            Knee, South Dakota, in 1890. The revered leader, Sitting Bull, was killed, or
            rather, politically assassinated, near Standing Rock, partly for his
            involvement in the sacred rituals. The atrocious action of the federal troops
            resulted in the death of nearly three hundred Sioux men, women, and children.
            The Lakota people of Big Foot's community had already surrendered and were in
            the process of being disarmed when some fighting broke out. The Army opened
            fire on the defeated warriors, the innocent women and children, and the elderly
            of Black Foot's people. Bodies of unarmed women and children were scattered a
            distance of two miles from the initial encounter. The Army troops had clearly
            chased and gunned down nearly everyone in the community. Alvin M. Josephy, Jr.
            states: "This episode marked the completion of the white man's conquest of the
            Indian in the United States" (342).
            -------------------------------------------

            Has american terrorism against the Indians stopped? You be the judge.

            In the 1960s, the American Indian Movement (AIM) evolved in the cities and
            eventually found its way into rural and reservation areas. Students of law,
            advocates against the continuing oppression of American Indians, civil rights
            leaders, other significant individuals and their followers began their Trail of
            Broken Treaties. Considered radical and hostile by many Native people and non-
            Indians, the American Indian Movement, nonetheless, had a great many legitimate
            issues and viable complaints to present to the federal government. Dennis
            Banks, Clyde Bellecourt, Russell Means, Herb Powless, Carter Camp, and many
            others were adamant that their claims of injustice be taken seriously and that
            American Indians have some input into their own destiny.

            What ensued was Wounded Knee II. The Federal Bureau of Investigation, the
            Bureau of Indian Affairs, and the Justice Department all became involved in
            what the government deemed riotous militancy on the part of the movement. Many
            AIM members were beaten, arrested, or found dead of causes unexplained. An
            assistant prosecutor in the state Attorney General's office, William Janklow,
            stated: "The only way to deal with the Indian problem in South Dakota is to put
            a gun to the AIM leaders' heads and pull the trigger"
            --------------------------------------------------------
            • Gość: GT Re: Holokaust w Ameryce - Indianie IP: 65.90.124.* 18.01.03, 00:09
              > Indians of northern California. When the first whites stumbled upon Round
              > Valley, near San Francisco, in 1851, there were about 3,500 Yuki residents
              > living in the area.

              Fine, you found plausible story to explain death of 3000 Indians of California.
              You claimed 500 000. You have to change Jedwabne into Majdanek. Nobody will say
              that Natve Americans did not suffer or that Americans did not commit crimes
              againdst them - You simply exagerate the problem by factor of 100.

              > By the end of the nineteenth century, the American Indian people had been
              > decimated. United States military records show a minimum of 1,470 official
              > incidents of Army action against Indians from 1776 to 1907.

              Also for every incident of US military involvement there is 10 incidents of
              conflict betweem Native tribes. Many of of military incursions were done at the
              request of one of the warring tribes.
              • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: Holokaust w Ameryce - Indianie IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 18.01.03, 03:05
                Gość portalu: GT napisał(a):

                > > Indians of northern California. When the first whites stumbled upon Round
                > > Valley, near San Francisco, in 1851, there were about 3,500 Yuki residents
                >
                > > living in the area.
                >
                > Fine, you found plausible story to explain death of 3000 Indians of
                California.
                >

                I gave you an example of ONE, among MANY, indian communities in ONE place in
                ONE state. You propose that America is guilty of a few thousand deaths. I
                suppose then that there were no other indians other than these? What about the
                Apache? The Sioux? The hundreds of other nations destroyed by americans? They
                add up to more than a "few thousand" as you propose.


                > You claimed 500 000. You have to change Jedwabne into Majdanek. Nobody will
                say
                >
                > that Natve Americans did not suffer or that Americans did not commit crimes
                > againdst them - You simply exagerate the problem by factor of 100.
                >
                > > By the end of the nineteenth century, the American Indian people had been
                > > decimated. United States military records show a minimum of 1,470 official
                >
                > > incidents of Army action against Indians from 1776 to 1907.
                >
                > Also for every incident of US military involvement there is 10 incidents of
                > conflict betweem Native tribes. Many of of military incursions were done at
                the
                >
                > request of one of the warring tribes.

                More lies.
    • Gość: haloperidol Re: Stany czescia Osi Zla-niestety po angielsku IP: *.visp.energis.pl 16.01.03, 15:03
      www2.gazeta.pl/forum/794674,30353,794652.html?f=50&w=3149662
    • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Holocaust deniers IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 17.01.03, 01:16
      Faced with proof of american crimes. Faced with proof of American genocides,
      these deniers can not admit that America is evil.

      When I show them the treatied that America refuses to ratify, they call such
      treaties waste of ink. Yet when a country wants to pull out of another treaty,
      is hailed as a threat to the world. You cant have yoir cake and eat it to.
      America cant expect to force others to honor treaties when America is one of
      the worst sinners in this department.

      I have shown historical proofs of chemical weapons use in several countries. Of
      indiscriminate carpet bombing of populations. Of murderous sanctions. Of
      political machinations. Of assasinations. Of genocides and slavery. Yet all
      these aplogists dismiss it all because to them, no matter what America does, it
      is good and honest. Well, America has proven over the last 2 centuries that it
      is one of the most evil nations on the planet. It has the death of millions of
      people on its hands.
      • Gość: GT Re: Holocaust deniers IP: 65.90.124.* 18.01.03, 00:40
        > Faced with proof of american crimes. Faced with proof of American genocides,
        > these deniers can not admit that America is evil.

        You listed historical events, you did not PROOF anythig. If people get COVICTED
        any time they are in conflict with somebody else there would be no guards to
        guard the prisons. If people get covicted any time they harm somebody there
        would be nobody free.

        To prove guilt you need more:

        1. Evidence that harm was direct consequence of somebody actions.
        2. Evidence that consequence was forseable to a reasonble person in the same
        situation.
        3. Evidence that there was a possibility to avoid harm.
        4. Evidence that harm was not done in self defense or in defense of others.

        You not only fail to provide such evidence. You don't even have clue of basic
        standarts of guilt determination.

        > When I show them the treatied that America refuses to ratify, they call such
        > treaties waste of ink.

        Only treaty which make sense is the one in which every side benefits.
        Everything else is called extortion.

        > Yet when a country wants to pull out of another treaty,
        > is hailed as a threat to the world.

        Not respecting the treaty you signed is another story. That IS a danger to the
        world - signing the treaties nobody respectes.

        > You cant have yoir cake and eat it to.
        > America cant expect to force others to honor treaties when America is one of
        > the worst sinners in this department.

        America respects the treaties it signed.

        > I have shown historical proofs of chemical weapons use in several countries.

        You have no understanding what chemical weapons are.

        > indiscriminate carpet bombing of populations.

        Nobody argues that - such were the customs of that time. Which army having the
        capacity of bombing enemy did not do that?

        > Of murderous sanctions.

        Nobody has moral DUTY to trade with enemy.

        > Yet all
        > these aplogists dismiss it all because to them, no matter what America does,
        > it is good and honest.

        Nobody claims absolute goodnes or honesty of America. They had their sins as
        everybody else does. If you believe in absolute standarts you should become
        Great Inqusistor.

        What I am trying to defend is just simple historical observation that most of
        the time America was no higher moral ground than it's oponents: England, Spain,
        Mexico, Hitler, Communism, Saddam, Islamic terrorists.

        You did not prove that I am wrong.

        > Well, America has proven over the last 2 centuries that it
        > is one of the most evil nations on the planet.

        This statement you did not support at all - it would require COMPARISON what
        America's oponents did in the same time - and so far you did not provide us
        with any evidence of that.

        >It has the death of millions of
        > people on its hands.

        ... and it saved tens of milions form death.
    • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii America, a history of evil IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 17.01.03, 13:59
      This is how I would classify the American historical experience. It is a
      history of evil, unleashed upon those whom America considered less than human.

      The history ofcourse began with the Native Americans. The Native American
      Holocaust Museum estimates, based on anthropological data, that SEVEN MILLION
      Indians died in the formation of Canada and America. SEVEN MILLION! The data
      may be questioned by some, just as deniers of the Nazi Holocaust question data
      depicting the severity of that holocaust. What can't be questioned is the
      spirit of the holocaust. Broken treaties that number in the thousands. Forced
      relocations of Indians because the land they had been assigned as compensation
      for having original land stolen, became valuable. Economic repressions.
      Cultural anhilation. Economic destruction. The Indian has been decimated by the
      American government. This is one of the worst holocausts in history. It ranks
      right up there with what Hitler did. Hell, it even had its own nazi style camps
      called reservations. Treated like animals, Indians were moved to human zoos.

      The second American horror was slavery. The number of slaves owned in America
      during the history of the horror was over 4 million. On the backs of the
      African, the entire economy of the south was built. Murdered, beaten, raped,
      sold, human spirit broken. This was the experience of the slave in America. The
      great Jefferson, father of the American democratic idea, was himself a brutal,
      barbaric slave owner. This is the reason why the entire american idealism of
      democarcy and freedom is a poisoned and tainted one. It was created by a band
      of barbarians and murderers with blood stained hands. This is why America went
      on to become one of the gtreatest killers of our times. Even after the official
      end of slavery, the KKK was tolerated, lynchings and murders were common place,
      and America kept in place a segragationist policy that made South Africa look
      like heaven for Africans.


      Cambodia and Vietnam were another stage for American brutality. America
      unleashed a chemical warfare that eclipsed anything mankind did before of
      after. Napalm and Agent Orange were dumped on popuilated areas in the direct
      hope of killing as many civillians as possible. In Cambodia, American B-52
      bombers, using napalm and dart cluster-bombs, killed up to 750,000 Cambodians
      in their effort to destroy suspected North Vietnamese supply lines.
      In Vietnam, 3million died a a result of the war that America extended for years.
      Seven million tons of bombs were dropped on Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos--three
      times as many as had been dropped in all of World War 2. Chemical weapons such
      as napalm, white phosphorus incendiary bombs, Agent Orange, tear gas, and nerve
      gas were all part of the U.S. arsenal.

      Korea. How can we sum up Korea? "Kill em ALL!"
      There was a lieutenant screaming like a madman, fire on everything, kill 'em
      all," recalls 7th Cavalry veteran Joe Jackman, "I didn't know if they were
      soldiers or what. Kids, there was kids out there, it didn't matter what it was,
      eight to 80, blind, crippled or crazy, they shot 'em all." This refers to the
      No Gun Ri killings, which were a great example of american sadism. For a
      Vietnam equivalent, I suggest you rean about the My Lai attrocity.


      Previously, the US Army had dismissed the claims of South Korean survivors who,
      since 1960, had been trying to tell the truth about the killings at No Gun Ri.
      The Army said that US forces were not even in the area of No Gun Ri at the time
      of the killings. But not only did new evidence put No Gun Ri firmly within the
      US 7th Cavalry area of operations at the time, the discovery of US veterans
      willing to talk about events 50 years later made the massacre undeniable. The
      Clinton administration quickly directed that the Pentagon, specifically the
      Army, conduct an investigation itself to what actually happened at No Gun Ri.

      Was No Gun Ri some abberation? No.It was business as usual. Reports point to
      the widespread targeting of refugees by commanders well after No Gun Ri. In
      August 1950 there are orders detailing that refugees crossing the Naktong River
      be shot. Later in the same month, General Gay, commander of the 1st Cavalry
      Division (of which the 7th Cavalry Regiment involved at No Gun Ri was part),
      actually ordered artillery units to target civilians on the battlefield. And as
      late as January 1951 the US Eighth Army was detailing all units in Korea that
      refugees be attacked with all available fire including bombing.

      New allegations have also emerged of the indiscriminate killing of civilians in
      Korea. In August 1950, 80 civilians are reported to have been killed while
      seeking sanctuary in a shrine by the village of Kokaan-Ri, near Masan in South
      Korea. Other survivors recall 400 civilians killed by US naval artillery on the
      beaches near the port of Pohang in September 1950 and dozens of villages across
      southern South Korea report the repeated low-level strafing by US planes
      of 'people-in-white' during July and August 1950. A total of 61 separate
      incidents involving the killing of civilians by US forces are now logged with
      the South Korean authorities.

      American destruction of North Korea was so thorough that no building or
      structure above one story still existed above the 38th parallel on the Korean
      Peninsula. 3 million died as a result of the war.

      Other survivors told stories of their families being wiped out by the
      systematic three-year-long air war against North Korea. U.S. pilots routinely
      complained that there were no more available targets because the air war
      against the north was so extensive.

      Chang Kwan Hee, a 62-year-old medical doctor, told how her family and neighbors
      had been devastated by disease that she asserted was the byproduct of germ-
      warfare weapons dropped in north Pyung-ahn province. Two of her brothers died
      from burns suffered from napalm attacks.


      Omar Bradley said it best: "It is the view of the Joint Chiefs of Staff," Gen.
      Omar Bradley wrote to President Dwight Eisenhower on May 19, 1953, "that the
      necessary air, naval, and ground operations, including the extensive strategic
      and tactical use of atomic bombs, be undertaken, so as to obtain maximum
      surprise and maximum impact on the enemy, both militarily and psychologically."

      Previously declassified top secret documents reveal just how close the United
      States came to using nuclear bombs in Korea--just a few years after it
      destroyed two Japanese cities, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, in 1945.

      A museum carefully chronicles the U.S. crimes in Sinchon: 5,484 dwellings
      burned; 618 factories, public buildings and irrigation facilities destroyed,
      peasant leaders executed.

      In one act of savage revenge, retreating U.S. troops, being mauled by the KPA
      and Chinese counter-offensive, murdered 900 civilians in an air-raid shelter.
      U.S. troops poured gasoline into the shelter's ventilation hole and ignited it.

      Speaking at a May 19 news conference in the Koryo Hotel in Pyongyang, Ramsey
      Clark said, "The crimes committed by the U.S. against the Korean people
      included mass executions of political prisoners in South Korea between
      September 8, 1945, and the start of the Korean War on June 25, 1950."

      Referring to recent revelations that former U.S. Sen. Bob Kerrey and a Navy
      SEALS unit he commanded carried out a massacre of South Vietnamese women and
      children in 1969, Clark said, "The Korean people, like the Vietnamese people,
      also suffered from countless massacres between 1950 and 1953 by U.S. occupying
      troops."


      The Korean War, like the Vietnam War, showed the true nature of America. It is
      a bloodthisrty monster of evil


      Other crimes.

      The Americans have had their finger in nearly every pie this world has.
      The U.S. military used 20 times as much napalm in Korea as it
      • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii America, a history of evil part 2 IP: proxy / 219.240.32.* 17.01.03, 14:03
        Other crimes.

        The Americans have had their finger in nearly every pie this world has.
        The U.S. military used 20 times as much napalm in Korea as it had used in World
        War II.

        -Dropped bombs on 23 countries
        -were the instigators of 20 coups
        -dozens of assasinations

        Central America has been driven into poverty, its people brutalized by Amerian
        founded and schoold guerrilas and the CIA. Why? In the name of American
        business interests. It was enough to label any country communist if the people
        of that country threatened the bottom line of American businesses. Who cares
        about Panama, NIcaragua, El Salvador, Gwatemala, Honduras? All that matters to
        America is money.

        George Bush. The great leader. The continuer of the American fascit policy,
        spawn of Satan, Bush Sr.

        In the immortal words of the old fascist "I will never apologize for the United
        States of America - I don't care what the facts are." -President George Bush
        1988 [Bush was demonstrating his patriotism by excusing an act of cold-blooded
        mass-murder by the U.S. Navy. On July 3, 1988 the U.S. Navy warship Vincennes
        shot down an Iranian commercial airliner. All 290 civilian people in the
        aircraft were killed. The plane was on a routine flight in a commercial
        corridor in Iranian airspace. The targeting of it by the U.S. Navy was
        blatantly illegal. That it was grossly immoral is also obvious. Except to a
        patriot.]

        Why is America going to war with Iraq? Well, lets ask a real American hero "If
        they turn on the radars we're going to blow up their goddamn SAMs
        (surface-to-air missiles). They know we own their country. We own their
        airspace... We dictate the way they live and talk. And that's what's great
        about America right now. It's a good thing, especially when there's a
        lot of oil out there we need." -U.S. Brig. General William Looney
        (Interview Washington Post, August 30, 1999) [Referring, in reality, to the
        brutal mass-murder of hundreds of civilian Iraqi men, women and children
        during 10,000 sorties by American/British war criminals in the first eight
        months of 1999]

        On CIA and its role in the world: " "Death squads have been created and used by
        the CIA around the world - particularly the Third World - since the late 1940s,
        a fact ignored by the elite-owned media." -Ralph McGehee [Former CIA analyst &
        Author]

        Dont believe me? LIsten to Albert Einstein ""I came to America because of the
        great, great freedom which I heard existed in this country. I made a mistake in
        selecting America as a land of freedom, a mistake I cannot repair in the
        balance of my lifetime." -Albert Einstein, 1947

        America cares about its allies? "One hundred nations in the UN have not agreed
        with us on just about everything that's come before them, where we're involved,
        and it didn't upset my breakfast at all." - Ronald Reagan, former US President,
        basking in the triumph that was the US invasion of Grenada, 1983



        In conclusion, America has been a killer that has shwon zero emotions, zero
        concern for the well being of the world. It has ruthlessly murdered people in
        the name of its own self interests. It is an evil nation.




        • Gość: GT Re: America, a history of evil part 2 IP: 65.90.124.* 18.01.03, 00:56

          > Who cares
          > about Panama, NIcaragua, El Salvador, Gwatemala, Honduras?

          In which of this countries did income per capita dorp after American
          intervention? In which country people in free election brought back communistic
          usurpes to power?


          > "If
          > they turn on the radars we're going to blow up their goddamn SAMs
          > (surface-to-air missiles). They know we own their country. We own their
          > airspace... We dictate the way they live and talk. And that's what's great
          > about America right now. It's a good thing, especially when there's a
          > lot of oil out there we need." -U.S. Brig. General William Looney
          > (Interview Washington Post, August 30, 1999) [Referring, in reality, to the
          > brutal mass-murder of hundreds of civilian Iraqi men, women and children
          > during 10,000 sorties by American/British war criminals in the first eight
          > months of 1999]

          Obviously you have no clue what he was refering to. To me it's a statmenet of
          soldier proud of efective defence of Kuwait.


          > On CIA and its role in the world: " "Death squads have been created and used
          > by the CIA around the world - particularly the Third World - since the late
          > 1940s, a fact ignored by the elite-owned media." -Ralph McGehee

          I guess "death squads" killed kiled only grandmas and pre-adolescent girls
          avoiding confrontations with terrorists and drug dealers.


          > Dont believe me? LIsten to Albert Einstein ""I came to America because of the
          > great, great freedom which I heard existed in this country. I made a mistake
          > in
          > selecting America as a land of freedom, a mistake I cannot repair in the
          > balance of my lifetime." -Albert Einstein, 1947

          After which he steyed in US till the end of his life - I guess better country
          did not EXIST.

          > America cares about its allies? "One hundred nations in the UN have not
          > agreed
          > with us on just about everything that's come before them, where we're
          > involved,
          > and it didn't upset my breakfast at all." - Ronald Reagan, former US
          > President,
          > basking in the triumph that was the US invasion of Grenada, 1983

          100 other countries also ignored strugle of Poland and he didn't.

          > In conclusion, America has been a killer that has shwon zero emotions, zero
          > concern for the well being of the world. It has ruthlessly murdered people in
          > the name of its own self interests. It is an evil nation.

          Thank's to that killer more ruthless ones like Hitle or Stalin did not take
          over. You may not like it but that's the best choice you have.

          Give me alternative of maintaining the world order. Who will provide for your
          safety if US mysteriously diapears?
      • Gość: GT Re: America, a history of evil IP: 65.90.124.* 18.01.03, 01:04
        > The history ofcourse began with the Native Americans. The Native American
        > Holocaust Museum estimates, based on anthropological data, that SEVEN MILLION
        > Indians died in the formation of Canada and America. SEVEN MILLION!

        This data is correct. As I said before form initial 10 mln 3 mln was left. If
        you read what I post your horisons will expand greatly. Problem which you
        choose to ignore is that Formation of America includes early exploreres,
        English, French, Duth and Spanish colonies, War of Independence, East coast
        colonies, Louisiana purchase, Westward Expansion.

        To blaim something on Americans you need to provide proof that something
        happened in last 3 periods. Than you will see that milion figue melts into
        thousands.

        • Gość: Tysprowda Re: America, a history of evil IP: proxy / 217.33.71.* 19.01.03, 15:31
          Przedruk z dyskusji na amerykanskim forum:

          There are extremely(!!!!) evil WMD definitely buried under the desert sands,
          and as Dubya says, having chemical weapons is "the smoking gun". Only the most
          despicable tyrants have chemical weapons.


          Here's a recent inventory: AGENT ITEM QUANTITY POUNDS HD-Blister Ton Containers
          2,635 4,679,040 GB-Nerve 155mm Projectiles 47,406 308,140 GB-Nerve 8-inch
          Projectiles 14,246 206,560 GB-Nerve M55 Rockets 91,375 977,720 GB-Nerve M56
          Rocket Warheads 67 720 GB-Nerve 500-lb. Bombs 27 2,920 GB-Nerve 750-lb. Bombs
          2,418 531,960 VX-Nerve 155mm Projectiles 32,313 193,880 VX-Nerve 8-inch
          Projectiles 3,752 54,400 VX-Nerve Mines 11,685 122,700 VX-Nerve M55 Rockets
          14,513 145,140 VX-Nerve M56 Rocket Warheads 6 60 VX-Nerve Spray Tanks 156
          211,540

          Is this what's Saddam's hiding? No.

          This desert isn't in Iraq.
          It's in Oregon, in the United States of America.
          It's called the Umatilla Chemical Depot, home to 12% (ONLY 12%!!!!) of the US
          stockpile of chemical weapons.
          The stench of hypocrisy really is overwhelming.
          • Gość: Polak_w_Koreii Re: America, a history of evil IP: 219.240.31.* 19.01.03, 16:26
            Gość portalu: Tysprowda napisał(a):

            > Przedruk z dyskusji na amerykanskim forum:
            >
            > There are extremely(!!!!) evil WMD definitely buried under the desert sands,
            > and as Dubya says, having chemical weapons is "the smoking gun". Only the
            most
            > despicable tyrants have chemical weapons.
            >
            >
            > Here's a recent inventory: AGENT ITEM QUANTITY POUNDS HD-Blister Ton
            Containers
            >
            > 2,635 4,679,040 GB-Nerve 155mm Projectiles 47,406 308,140 GB-Nerve 8-inch
            > Projectiles 14,246 206,560 GB-Nerve M55 Rockets 91,375 977,720 GB-Nerve M56
            > Rocket Warheads 67 720 GB-Nerve 500-lb. Bombs 27 2,920 GB-Nerve 750-lb. Bombs
            > 2,418 531,960 VX-Nerve 155mm Projectiles 32,313 193,880 VX-Nerve 8-inch
            > Projectiles 3,752 54,400 VX-Nerve Mines 11,685 122,700 VX-Nerve M55 Rockets
            > 14,513 145,140 VX-Nerve M56 Rocket Warheads 6 60 VX-Nerve Spray Tanks 156
            > 211,540
            >
            > Is this what's Saddam's hiding? No.
            >
            > This desert isn't in Iraq.
            > It's in Oregon, in the United States of America.
            > It's called the Umatilla Chemical Depot, home to 12% (ONLY 12%!!!!) of the US
            > stockpile of chemical weapons.
            > The stench of hypocrisy really is overwhelming.

            Pamietajcie, ze USA to swiete panstwo. Oni niczego zlego nie zrobili.

            -Indianie? USA ich wymordowalo? Alez co tam! Pare tysiecy zmarlo, to wszystko.
            Rezerwaty? Ale co tam,rezerwaty to nic zlego, Indianom bylo tam fajnie.
            -Slavery? Alez przesadzasz Polaku w Koreii! USA zabraly czarnych z Afryki i
            daly szansie na zycie w najlepszym kraju na swiecie! USA. Gdyby nie stany to ci
            czarni zmarliby w Afryce.
            Prpaganda? Ameryka nie uzywa propagandy! W Ameryce to sie nazywa "A fight for
            minds and hearts". Teroryzm? Nigdy. Teroryzm to wtedy jak zli atakuja Ameryke.
            Jak Ameryka morduje frajerow w Wietnamie, Gwatemalii, Panamie, Grenadzie,
            Kambodzii to wtedy to sie nazywa "wyzwalanie". Ameryka nie ma zadnych weapons
            of mass destruction! Nie pierdziel nam tu..to sa Weapons of mass Liberation.
            Umierac dla Ameryki to zaszczyt dla wszystkich.

            • Gość: Tysprowda Re: America, a history of evil IP: proxy / 217.33.71.* 19.01.03, 17:14
              Pisalem sam wiele juz razy, ze w USA nie ma propagandy.
              Jest walka o serca i umysly- "battle to win hearts and minds".
              Propaganda jest w innych krajach swiata.

              USA nie szpieguje, ale tylko zbiera informacje-"intelligence gathering".
              Szpieguja inni.

              Patriota to tylko Amerykanin. Kazdy inny to nacjonalista.

              Media in America: weapon of mass distraction.

              I pani Lynn Cheney to dokladnie opisala w swojej ksiazce dla dzieci. Tzn
              jak "to win hearts and minds" dzieci i zrobic z nich patriotow prawdziwych.
              Takich co patrza na swiat przez media w Ameryce, uzywac jednego oka i sluchac
              jednym uchem. Po to aby uzywali polowy mozgu.
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