Bush - Sharon. Nawet pozorow zabraklo...

IP: *.mco.bellsouth.net 01.08.03, 02:21
)) Ocena spotkania Busha z Sharonem wyglada tragicznie dla Palestynczykow i
dla tego, o czyms kiedys mowiono jako o 'mapie drogowej'. Nic nowego dla
mnie, bo nic nowego w takim ukladzie spodziewac sie nie mozna, ale za to
wielu glupcow bedzie bardzo zawiedzionych...

((World dispatch


Bush just doesn't get it

The US president has allowed himself to be comprehensively bamboozled by
Ariel Sharon, says Simon Tisdall. Peace is as far away as ever

Thursday July 31, 2003

Not a little hope attached to this week's talks in Washington between the US
president, George Bush, and the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon.
Violence between Israelis and Palestinians has fallen sharply in recent
weeks. Both sides have spoken in positive terms about the prospect of peace;
both have made gestures, albeit mostly verbal, towards attaining that goal.

Not a little fear attended the talks, too. The fear, for Israelis and
Palestinians but also for the many others who yearn for a just end to this
interminable conflict, is that without urgent, substantive steps forward -
along the lines laid out by the international "road map" - a golden
opportunity may be lost.

Mr Bush put a characteristically optimistic spin on his discussions with Mr
Sharon and, last week, with the Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud
Abbas. "I think we're making pretty good progress in a short period of
time," he said.

He might think that is the case. He might wish it to be so. But there are
three basic grounds for challenging Mr Bush's rosy judgment.

The first cause for concern arises from the sight of Mr Sharon, standing
alongside the US leader, reiterating in uncompromising terms his
preconditions for negotiations on the fundamental issues that separate the
two peoples.

If anything, Mr Sharon hardened his position. He made no mention, as he has
in the past, of Israel's acceptance of a future Palestinian state; he made
no reference, as before, to the unsustainability of the occupation of
Palestinian land; and perhaps most ominously of all, he omitted all direct
reference to the "road map".

"I wish to move forward with a political process with our Palestinian
neighbours," Mr Sharon said. "And the right way to do that is only after a
complete cessation of terror, violence and incitement, full dismantlement of
terror organisations, and completion of the reform process of the
Palestinian Authority."

The key word in this sentence is "after". What Mr Sharon was saying, indeed
demanding, was that Mr Abbas disarm, disband, and possibly lock up, leaders
and members of militant organisations such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad,
before Israel does anything substantive by way of reciprocal measures.

Mr Sharon appeared to anticipate failure, even to expect it. "We are
thankful for every hour of increased quiet," he said. "At the same time, we
are concerned that this welcome quiet will be shattered any minute as a
result of the continued existence of terror organisations which the
Palestinian Authority is doing nothing to eliminate."

His remarks, in a prepared statement, also seemed to imply that Mr Abbas
must achieve complete political control within the authority, including
ousting Yasser Arafat from any position of real influence or executive
authority for good, before Israel would act.

Mr Sharon is asking for the impossible, as he must know very well. For the
second reason for challenging Mr Bush's optimistic assessment is that Mr
Abbas has neither the political nor military power to satisfy these Israeli
demands at this stage, even if he were fully minded to do so.

His position remains weak, as is to be expected after only a few,
controversial months presiding over a government divided and impecunious
after years of intifada. He cannot issue fiats or make demands without
risking his own downfall, or worse, an inter-Palestinian conflict. If he
makes promises he cannot deliver, his credibility will be undermined among
his supporters, opponents, and among the Israeli public.

He has no choice but to tread carefully. He needs real Israeli concessions,
not mere gestures. So far they have not been offered.

Mr Abbas is already accused by some of his own people of collaborating with
the Israelis, of being a dupe or a stooge. They say his policy of
engagement, before and since the Aqaba summit, has brought few tangible
results. They say the handful of prisoner releases, the charades over the
uprooting of "unauthorised outposts", and the very limited military
withdrawal, are proof not of Mr Sharon's good faith but of his duplicity.

They say, in short, that Mr Abbas is being taken for a ride, that the
Americans are not really pushing Mr Sharon, and indeed, that Mr Sharon is to
a lesser extent taking Mr Bush for a ride, too.

It would be comforting to reject all this and say it is merely the product
of years of bloodshed and abiding distrust, that all will be well in the
end.

But when Mr Sharon in Washington went on to defy the US president, to his
face, over Israel's construction of the West Bank security wall, and to
ignore the road map's requirement for a freezing of settlement activities,
Palestinian suspicions that he is engaged in the old game of talking peace
while seizing more and more Palestinian land understandably deepen.

In terms of the bottom line, all Mr Sharon committed Israel to do was to
take unspecified "additional steps ... if calm prevails and we witness the
dismantlement of terror organisations". This is no commitment at all. And
still Mr Bush kept smiling.

In truth, Mr Bush himself is the third reason why optimism seems misplaced
at the end of this week's talks.

He says things are moving forward quickly. But he ignores the fact that he
wasted two years after he came into office, during which time the conflict
grew ever more embittered and entrenched. The opportunity for action is now
very limited, partly as a result.

Mr Bush says he and his advisers are committed to the "road map" and making
peace work, in line with the timetable for establishing a Palestinian state
by 2005. But in reality, they are massively distracted by Iraq, where
problems mount, and by broader domestic controversies that are building as
the US election year approaches.

Enforced regime change in Iraq is not facilitating the Arab-Israeli peace
process, as Mr Bush has frequently claimed it would. If anything, the
controversial US policy is obstructing it, just as it did for different
reasons before Saddam Hussein's downfall.

Mr Bush also seems quite happy to be almost blatantly bamboozled by Mr
Sharon, who is a much more wily and subtle politician that the former Texas
governor will ever be accused of being. The Israeli leader must be privately
delighted to have a US counterpart who is so easy to handle.

The way Mr Sharon flatters him so outrageously suggests just a smidgin of an
older man's condescension.

But Mr Bush's biggest blind spot stems not from his vanity, but from his
utter, simplistic determination to cast the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in
the fundamental, black and white, for-us-or-against-us terms of his "war on
terror".

"Those who want to destroy the peace process through terrorist activities
must be dealt with," he said this week, "There will be no peace if terrorism
flourishes... The rise of a peaceful Palestinian state and the long-term
security of the Israeli people both depend on defeating the threat of
terrorist groups." He went on: "The Palestinian Authority must undertake
sustained, targeted and effective operations to confront those engaged in
terror."

In other words, Mr Bush seems to have bought, in its entirety, Mr Sharon's
Machiavellian proposition that any act of "terrorism", however loosely
defined, may constitute j
    • Gość: U Re: Bush - Sharon. Nawet pozorow zabraklo... IP: *.75.3.238.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net 01.08.03, 02:29
      Gość portalu: A.D. napisał(a):

      ) )) Ocena spotkania Busha z Sharonem wyglada tragicznie
      dla Palestynczykow i
      ) dla tego, o czyms kiedys mowiono jako o 'mapie
      drogowej'. Nic nowego dla
      ) mnie, bo nic nowego w takim ukladzie spodziewac sie nie
      mozna, ale za to
      ) wielu glupcow bedzie bardzo zawiedzionych...
      )
      ) ((World dispatch
      )
      )
      ) Bush just doesn't get it
      )
      ) The US president has allowed himself to be
      comprehensively bamboozled by
      ) Ariel Sharon, says Simon Tisdall. Peace is as far away
      as ever
      )
      ) Thursday July 31, 2003
      )
      ) Not a little hope attached to this week's talks in
      Washington between the US
      ) president, George Bush, and the Israeli prime minister,
      Ariel Sharon.




      ) Violence between Israelis and Palestinians has fallen
      sharply in recent
      ) weeks.

      I tu jest wlasnie pies pogrzebany.Nima terroru,nima
      geszeftu.Jak tu budowac tyn muhhhhhrrr,jak tu rozwalac
      palestynskie domy,kiedy nima tehhrrrorrrhyzmu....



      Both sides have spoken in positive terms about the
      prospect of peace;
      ) both have made gestures, albeit mostly verbal, towards
      attaining that goal.
      )
      ) Not a little fear attended the talks, too. The fear,
      for Israelis and
      ) Palestinians but also for the many others who yearn for
      a just end to this
      ) interminable conflict, is that without urgent,
      substantive steps forward -
      ) along the lines laid out by the international "road
      map" - a golden
      ) opportunity may be lost.
      )
      ) Mr Bush put a characteristically optimistic spin on his
      discussions with Mr
      ) Sharon and, last week, with the Palestinian prime
      minister, Mahmoud
      ) Abbas. "I think we're making pretty good progress in a
      short period of
      ) time," he said.
      )
      ) He might think that is the case. He might wish it to be
      so. But there are
      ) three basic grounds for challenging Mr Bush's rosy
      judgment.
      )
      ) The first cause for concern arises from the sight of Mr
      Sharon, standing
      ) alongside the US leader, reiterating in uncompromising
      terms his
      ) preconditions for negotiations on the fundamental
      issues that separate the
      ) two peoples.
      )
      ) If anything, Mr Sharon hardened his position. He made
      no mention, as he has
      ) in the past, of Israel's acceptance of a future
      Palestinian state; he made
      ) no reference, as before, to the unsustainability of the
      occupation of
      ) Palestinian land; and perhaps most ominously of all, he
      omitted all direct
      ) reference to the "road map".
      )
      ) "I wish to move forward with a political process with
      our Palestinian
      ) neighbours," Mr Sharon said. "And the right way to do
      that is only after a
      ) complete cessation of terror, violence and incitement,
      full dismantlement of
      ) terror organisations, and completion of the reform
      process of the
      ) Palestinian Authority."
      )
      ) The key word in this sentence is "after". What Mr
      Sharon was saying, indeed
      ) demanding, was that Mr Abbas disarm, disband, and
      possibly lock up, leaders
      ) and members of militant organisations such as Hamas and
      Islamic Jihad,
      ) before Israel does anything substantive by way of
      reciprocal measures.
      )
      ) Mr Sharon appeared to anticipate failure, even to
      expect it. "We are
      ) thankful for every hour of increased quiet," he said.
      "At the same time, we
      ) are concerned that this welcome quiet will be shattered
      any minute as a
      ) result of the continued existence of terror
      organisations which the
      ) Palestinian Authority is doing nothing to eliminate."
      )
      ) His remarks, in a prepared statement, also seemed to
      imply that Mr Abbas
      ) must achieve complete political control within the
      authority, including
      ) ousting Yasser Arafat from any position of real
      influence or executive
      ) authority for good, before Israel would act.
      )
      ) Mr Sharon is asking for the impossible, as he must know
      very well. For the
      ) second reason for challenging Mr Bush's optimistic
      assessment is that Mr
      ) Abbas has neither the political nor military power to
      satisfy these Israeli
      ) demands at this stage, even if he were fully minded to
      do so.
      )
      ) His position remains weak, as is to be expected after
      only a few,
      ) controversial months presiding over a government
      divided and impecunious
      ) after years of intifada. He cannot issue fiats or make
      demands without
      ) risking his own downfall, or worse, an
      inter-Palestinian conflict. If he
      ) makes promises he cannot deliver, his credibility will
      be undermined among
      ) his supporters, opponents, and among the Israeli public.
      )
      ) He has no choice but to tread carefully. He needs real
      Israeli concessions,
      ) not mere gestures. So far they have not been offered.
      )
      ) Mr Abbas is already accused by some of his own people
      of collaborating with
      ) the Israelis, of being a dupe or a stooge. They say his
      policy of
      ) engagement, before and since the Aqaba summit, has
      brought few tangible
      ) results. They say the handful of prisoner releases, the
      charades over the
      ) uprooting of "unauthorised outposts", and the very
      limited military
      ) withdrawal, are proof not of Mr Sharon's good faith but
      of his duplicity.
      )
      ) They say, in short, that Mr Abbas is being taken for a
      ride, that the
      ) Americans are not really pushing Mr Sharon, and indeed,
      that Mr Sharon is to
      ) a lesser extent taking Mr Bush for a ride, too.
      )
      ) It would be comforting to reject all this and say it is
      merely the product
      ) of years of bloodshed and abiding distrust, that all
      will be well in the
      ) end.
      )
      ) But when Mr Sharon in Washington went on to defy the US
      president, to his
      ) face, over Israel's construction of the West Bank
      security wall, and to
      ) ignore the road map's requirement for a freezing of
      settlement activities,
      ) Palestinian suspicions that he is engaged in the old
      game of talking peace
      ) while seizing more and more Palestinian land
      understandably deepen.
      )
      ) In terms of the bottom line, all Mr Sharon committed
      Israel to do was to
      ) take unspecified "additional steps ... if calm prevails
      and we witness the
      ) dismantlement of terror organisations". This is no
      commitment at all. And
      ) still Mr Bush kept smiling.
      )
      ) In truth, Mr Bush himself is the third reason why
      optimism seems misplaced
      ) at the end of this week's talks.
      )
      ) He says things are moving forward quickly. But he
      ignores the fact that he
      ) wasted two years after he came into office, during
      which time the conflict
      ) grew ever more embittered and entrenched. The
      opportunity for action is now
      ) very limited, partly as a result.
      )
      ) Mr Bush says he and his advisers are committed to the
      "road map" and making
      ) peace work, in line with the timetable for establishing
      a Palestinian state
      ) by 2005. But in reality, they are massively distracted
      by Iraq, where
      ) problems mount, and by broader domestic controversies
      that are building as
      ) the US election year approaches.
      )
      ) Enforced regime change in Iraq is not facilitating the
      Arab-Israeli peace
      ) process, as Mr Bush has frequently claimed it would. If
      anything, the
      ) controversial US policy is obstructing it, just as it
      did for different
      ) reasons before Saddam Hussein's downfall.
      )
      ) Mr Bush also seems quite happy to be almost blatantly
      bamboozled by Mr
      ) Sharon, who is a much more wily and subtle politician
      that the former Texas
      ) governor will ever be accused of being. The Israeli
      leader must be privately
      ) delighted to have a US counterpart who is so easy to
      handle.
      )
      ) The way Mr Sharon flatters him so outrageously suggests
      just a smidgin of an
      ) older man's condescension.
      )
      ) But Mr Bush's biggest blind spot stems not from his
      vanity, but from his
      ) utter, simplistic determination to cast the
      Israeli-Palestinian conflict in
      ) the fundamental, black and white, for-us-or-against-us
      terms of his "war on
      ) terror".
      )
      ) "Those who want to destroy the peace process through
      t
    • bam-buko Re: Bush - Sharon. Nawet pozorow zabraklo... 01.08.03, 02:29
      Gość portalu: A.D. napisał(a):

      ) )) Ocena spotkania Busha z Sharonem wyglada tragicznie dla Palestynczykow i
      ) dla tego, o czyms kiedys mowiono jako o 'mapie drogowej'. Nic nowego dla
      ) mnie, bo nic nowego w takim ukladzie spodziewac sie nie mozna, ale za to
      ) wielu glupcow bedzie bardzo zawiedzionych...
      )
      ) ((World dispatch
      )
      )
      ) Bush just doesn't get it
      )
      ) The US president has allowed himself to be comprehensively bamboozled by
      ) Ariel Sharon, says Simon Tisdall. Peace is as far away as ever
      )
      ) Thursday July 31, 2003
      )
      ) Not a little hope attached to this week's talks in Washington between the US
      ) president, George Bush, and the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon.
      ) Violence between Israelis and Palestinians has fallen sharply in recent
      ) weeks. Both sides have spoken in positive terms about the prospect of peace;
      ) both have made gestures, albeit mostly verbal, towards attaining that goal.
      )
      ) Not a little fear attended the talks, too. The fear, for Israelis and
      ) Palestinians but also for the many others who yearn for a just end to this
      ) interminable conflict, is that without urgent, substantive steps forward -
      ) along the lines laid out by the international "road map" - a golden
      ) opportunity may be lost.
      )
      ) Mr Bush put a characteristically optimistic spin on his discussions with Mr
      ) Sharon and, last week, with the Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud
      ) Abbas. "I think we're making pretty good progress in a short period of
      ) time," he said.
      )
      ) He might think that is the case. He might wish it to be so. But there are
      ) three basic grounds for challenging Mr Bush's rosy judgment.
      )
      ) The first cause for concern arises from the sight of Mr Sharon, standing
      ) alongside the US leader, reiterating in uncompromising terms his
      ) preconditions for negotiations on the fundamental issues that separate the
      ) two peoples.
      )
      ) If anything, Mr Sharon hardened his position. He made no mention, as he has
      ) in the past, of Israel's acceptance of a future Palestinian state; he made
      ) no reference, as before, to the unsustainability of the occupation of
      ) Palestinian land; and perhaps most ominously of all, he omitted all direct
      ) reference to the "road map".
      )
      ) "I wish to move forward with a political process with our Palestinian
      ) neighbours," Mr Sharon said. "And the right way to do that is only after a
      ) complete cessation of terror, violence and incitement, full dismantlement of
      ) terror organisations, and completion of the reform process of the
      ) Palestinian Authority."
      )
      ) The key word in this sentence is "after". What Mr Sharon was saying, indeed
      ) demanding, was that Mr Abbas disarm, disband, and possibly lock up, leaders
      ) and members of militant organisations such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad,
      ) before Israel does anything substantive by way of reciprocal measures.
      )
      ) Mr Sharon appeared to anticipate failure, even to expect it. "We are
      ) thankful for every hour of increased quiet," he said. "At the same time, we
      ) are concerned that this welcome quiet will be shattered any minute as a
      ) result of the continued existence of terror organisations which the
      ) Palestinian Authority is doing nothing to eliminate."
      )
      ) His remarks, in a prepared statement, also seemed to imply that Mr Abbas
      ) must achieve complete political control within the authority, including
      ) ousting Yasser Arafat from any position of real influence or executive
      ) authority for good, before Israel would act.
      )
      ) Mr Sharon is asking for the impossible, as he must know very well. For the
      ) second reason for challenging Mr Bush's optimistic assessment is that Mr
      ) Abbas has neither the political nor military power to satisfy these Israeli
      ) demands at this stage, even if he were fully minded to do so.
      )
      ) His position remains weak, as is to be expected after only a few,
      ) controversial months presiding over a government divided and impecunious
      ) after years of intifada. He cannot issue fiats or make demands without
      ) risking his own downfall, or worse, an inter-Palestinian conflict. If he
      ) makes promises he cannot deliver, his credibility will be undermined among
      ) his supporters, opponents, and among the Israeli public.
      )
      ) He has no choice but to tread carefully. He needs real Israeli concessions,
      ) not mere gestures. So far they have not been offered.
      )
      ) Mr Abbas is already accused by some of his own people of collaborating with
      ) the Israelis, of being a dupe or a stooge. They say his policy of
      ) engagement, before and since the Aqaba summit, has brought few tangible
      ) results. They say the handful of prisoner releases, the charades over the
      ) uprooting of "unauthorised outposts", and the very limited military
      ) withdrawal, are proof not of Mr Sharon's good faith but of his duplicity.
      )
      ) They say, in short, that Mr Abbas is being taken for a ride, that the
      ) Americans are not really pushing Mr Sharon, and indeed, that Mr Sharon is to
      ) a lesser extent taking Mr Bush for a ride, too.
      )
      ) It would be comforting to reject all this and say it is merely the product
      ) of years of bloodshed and abiding distrust, that all will be well in the
      ) end.
      )
      ) But when Mr Sharon in Washington went on to defy the US president, to his
      ) face, over Israel's construction of the West Bank security wall, and to
      ) ignore the road map's requirement for a freezing of settlement activities,
      ) Palestinian suspicions that he is engaged in the old game of talking peace
      ) while seizing more and more Palestinian land understandably deepen.
      )
      ) In terms of the bottom line, all Mr Sharon committed Israel to do was to
      ) take unspecified "additional steps ... if calm prevails and we witness the
      ) dismantlement of terror organisations". This is no commitment at all. And
      ) still Mr Bush kept smiling.
      )
      ) In truth, Mr Bush himself is the third reason why optimism seems misplaced
      ) at the end of this week's talks.
      )
      ) He says things are moving forward quickly. But he ignores the fact that he
      ) wasted two years after he came into office, during which time the conflict
      ) grew ever more embittered and entrenched. The opportunity for action is now
      ) very limited, partly as a result.
      )
      ) Mr Bush says he and his advisers are committed to the "road map" and making
      ) peace work, in line with the timetable for establishing a Palestinian state
      ) by 2005. But in reality, they are massively distracted by Iraq, where
      ) problems mount, and by broader domestic controversies that are building as
      ) the US election year approaches.
      )
      ) Enforced regime change in Iraq is not facilitating the Arab-Israeli peace
      ) process, as Mr Bush has frequently claimed it would. If anything, the
      ) controversial US policy is obstructing it, just as it did for different
      ) reasons before Saddam Hussein's downfall.
      )
      ) Mr Bush also seems quite happy to be almost blatantly bamboozled by Mr
      ) Sharon, who is a much more wily and subtle politician that the former Texas
      ) governor will ever be accused of being. The Israeli leader must be privately
      ) delighted to have a US counterpart who is so easy to handle.
      )
      ) The way Mr Sharon flatters him so outrageously suggests just a smidgin of an
      ) older man's condescension.
      )
      ) But Mr Bush's biggest blind spot stems not from his vanity, but from his
      ) utter, simplistic determination to cast the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in
      ) the fundamental, black and white, for-us-or-against-us terms of his "war on
      ) terror".
      )
      ) "Those who want to destroy the peace process through terrorist activities
      ) must be dealt with," he said this week, "There will be no peace if terrorism
      ) flourishes... The rise of a peaceful Palestinian state and the long-term
      ) security of the Israeli people both depend on defeating the threat of
      ) terrorist g
    • Gość: PLOTTERS, PLOTTERS, CONSPIRATORS, LIARS.Our Road to Hell IP: *.31.200.67.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net 01.08.03, 02:50


      PLOTTERS,CONSPIRATORS,LIARS.
      Our Road to Hell

      www.geocities.com/election004/INDEX.html


    • Gość: A.D. Re: Bush - Sharon. Nawet pozorow zabraklo... doc. IP: *.mco.bellsouth.net 01.08.03, 04:17
      In other words, Mr Bush seems to have bought, in its entirety, Mr Sharon's
      Machiavellian proposition that any act of "terrorism", however loosely
      defined, may constitute justification for more foot-dragging by Israel, or
      even for a de facto suspension of the entire peace process. On this basis,
      logically, terrorists who oppose the "road map" process (like those
      politicians in Israel and the US who also oppose it) will always win.

      For Mr Bush, the definition of "terrorist" appears to be almost infinitely
      expandable in the Israel-Palestine context, as in Iraq and elsewhere.

      There is no apparent thought given to notions of legitimate self-defence, or
      deterrence of prior aggression, or struggle against the most provocative
      breaches of international law - or simply, against the daily theft of land,
      liberty and livelihood. His few, supposedly balancing phrases about
      Palestinian rights and Israeli obligations are hopelessly inadequate.

      Mr Bush, it seems, just does not get it. He cannot be bothered to undertake
      the hard grind or to work the issues, as Bill Clinton did, preferring instead
      to grandstand, to clutch for credit and compliments and for "leadership
      moments" that look good on television. As a result, he is dangerously, and
      sadly, off the pace. For Mr Abbas, his complacency could be fatal. For Mr
      Sharon, it is a gift.

      When a few Palestinian extremists finally run out of patience, or when
      somebody gets killed by the Israeli army, maybe by accident; and when somebody
      else retaliates and then, if and when the ceasefire collapses, the two sides
      turn on each other again, it will not be enough to say it is all
      the "terrorists'" fault. It will not be enough to shrug and say "we tried".

      Having finally, belatedly taken charge of the peace process, Mr Bush is
      already running out of time and squandering rare, hard-won momentum. Before
      our eyes, the fragile hope of peace is being dissipated. But the US president,
      now off on holiday to his ranch in Texas, does not seem to realise it.

      Email
      s.tisdall@guardian.co.uk


      • bam_buko Re: Bush - Sharon. Nawet pozorow zabraklo... doc. 01.08.03, 04:27
        Bush to kukielka ktora zydki pociagaja za sznurki,od jego belkotu zygac sie
        chce a SSharon robi co chce

        ps. ten swinski ryj jojo nieudolnie uzywa moj nik
Pełna wersja