illeterate people in europe

09.04.04, 13:08
hi
i am french and did read on the web at http: www educationnationale com
following information :

"Pourcentage d'analphabètes chez les plus de 15 ans. Dans le monde",
rate of illeterate people with more than 15 years. In the world,

puis "Par pays (est. 1995) : "
then "Rate in the countries (estimation 1995):


"Pourcentage des 16 à 65 ans éprouvant des difficultés à lire et à comprendre
des textes de la vie quotidienne enquête OCDE, 1995) :"
rate of persons between 16 and 65 years with difficulties to read and
understand texts of the every day life research made by OCDE (Organisation
for Economic Co-operation and Development) 1995

"Suède 7,5 ; Pays-Bas 10,5 ; Allemagne 14,4 ; Canada 16,6 ; États-Unis 20,7 ;
France 40,1 ; Pologne 42,6"

yes!

France 40,1 % and Poland 42,6 %

and i suppose that the ocde did make her work really conscientious.

what is to do?
    • Gość: bebe Re: illeterate people in europe IP: 217.153.91.* 09.04.04, 13:28
      I'll just try to stay among the remaining 57,4%.

      Bebe
      • eurofusion it is not enough! 09.04.04, 13:57
        bebe

        the european union build now a society with a real closed system of castes like
        in india! the caste of the "unemployeds", the caste of "poors born in an
        unemployed's family", the caste of "poors born in a poor's family"

        such people never become in europe a new chance to change this bad social
        position because of the bad education! the education has a key function about
        the structure of the social environment in our united europe!

        yours truly

        françois


        Gość portalu: bebe napisał(a):

        > I'll just try to stay among the remaining 57,4%.
        >
        > Bebe
    • Gość: krish Re: illeterate people in europe IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 09.04.04, 13:59
      Though sometimes I think, that people are 'pro maiori parte illiterari et
      idiote' (sounds nice, doesn't it?) but, in this case I guess they have
      exaggerated. Every day I read something, even though these are nasty jokes in
      tabloids. And there are milions similar to me. Almost everybody reads at least
      once a day - in the toilet. ;)
    • Gość: krish Re: illeterate people in europe IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 09.04.04, 14:07
      Now seriously. I have just read your second post, and unfortunately I must
      agree. But there's nothing we can do about it. Mr Orwell foresaw it many years
      ago. So far everything comes true. A socialist society (which European Union
      actually is) always tends in this direction. That's a rule. And there's no way
      to change this rule as long as the society is socialist.
      • Gość: bebe Re: illeterate people in europe IP: 217.153.91.* 09.04.04, 14:27
        Yes, and we have to ask ourselves a very important question:
        "Are the state-owned education institutions (and programs) a remedy for the
        problems of today? Or, maybe, are they - the cause..."

        bebe
        • Gość: krish Re: illeterate people in europe IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 09.04.04, 14:59
          The cause, of course. There are two problems:

          1. Re-distribution of money done by government (or anybody else)is never fair
          and honest

          2. Getting something for free (at least in imagination) devaluates the thing
          received. In this case - free (?) education is treated by some, as something
          due to them on principle. Wrong assumption.

          I know, that what I am writing is bitter. But there is no good solution.We can
          only discuss which is the best from among the bad ones.

          regards

          • eurofusion Re: illeterate people in europe 09.04.04, 18:50
            hi krish

            i can't agree on this point. i am french but i live in germany near belgium. in
            germany also is the education completely free but you can see in the given
            rates that germany as a really positiv rate in this question.

            if i compare both systems german and french, i can see big differences

            a/ the language: german peoples did reform her language for more efficience
            b/ the education: german peoples did favorise latin a very long time
            (it was necessary to learn latin in "gymnasium" 25 years ago; this gives
            of course better knowledge in grammar and ethymology)
            c/ the basical school has a very particular system in germany:
            it is usual to have the same teacher all the 4 years.
            it is terrible for a few number of children. but for the other
            it is better because the teacher knows very well each child.
            the result is a better orientation to the next school
            d/ french children can finish the high school with 16 .. 17 years
            german children finish usually with 19 .. 20 years
            french young people can finish the university with 21 years
            (and more of course) - german young people can't do that
            e/ french high school teatcher give her teaching without
            real contribution of the children like a sermon in the chirch.
            in germany the half of the result is the oral appreciation
            of the working with
            f/ french examens are essentially written and follow plans witch
            are the same for big groups of young people
            german high-school leaving examens are a compound appreciations
            in specialities that each young can decide under a very important choice.
            the german young people can decide a lot concerning his future competence.
            the examination through the last 2 years makes more than the half of the
            result and the part of the oral controls make also the half of the result.
            the german young people needs a very high contribution to get a good result.

            the last point is external. german young people has free time afternoon. they
            can do more activities (music, sport, scouts etc.). especially music is one of
            the best activities to push young people to learn better. in our town we have
            about 15 high schools. the half of the high schools have a little symphonical
            orchestra and the best musicians play at the symphonical orchestra of the music
            school too (also 2 + 2 hours over the regular repetition time). it is in my
            opinion an important reason for best results: the engagement for something!

            i don't know how it is in poland but i did buy books for this reason to learn
            some polish and have the possibility to compare really the differences... but
            it is a long way!


            Gość portalu: krish napisał(a):

            > 2. Getting something for free (at least in imagination) devaluates the thing
            > received. In this case - free (?) education is treated by some, as something
            > due to them on principle. Wrong assumption.

            • Gość: bebe Re: illeterate people in europe IP: *.aster.pl / *.acn.pl 09.04.04, 19:04
              eurofusion napisała:

              > hi krish
              >
              > i can't agree on this point. i am french but i live in germany near belgium. in
              >
              > germany also is the education completely free but you can see in the given
              > rates that germany as a really positiv rate in this question.

              There's no such thing as 'completely free'. The teachers do not work for free,
              the school office clerks do not work for free, the building is not being rented
              for free. The pupils don't have to pay for the school (by the way this is also
              not 100% true) but it doesn't make the system 'working for free'. In fact it is
              less efficiently managed and therefore - more expensive.
              That brings us back to the basic question: is the state educational system the
              best solution? Or is it the worst?

              Regards,

              bebe
              • eurofusion Re: illeterate people in europe 09.04.04, 19:54
                hi bebe

                it is a really very difficult question

                french people for example have one of the most developped pay school system
                (essentially catholic schools) in the world and belong to the critical people
                with the really very high rates of illeterate people...

                german people have only a few possibilities in pay school systems (waldorf
                schools with only one pay school university in herdecke) but best rates
                concerning illeterate people.

                i did explain to you the visible differences for me (i am not an expert! i have
                2 children 16/19 y. and a lot of children in the families on the german, on the
                french side and on the italian side. but i work in the industry!) and i think i
                can discern reasons for different results.

                Gość portalu: bebe napisał(a):

                > eurofusion napisała:
                >
                > > hi krish
                > >
                > > i can't agree on this point. i am french but i live in germany near belgiu
                > m. in
                > >
                > > germany also is the education completely free but you can see in the given
                > > rates that germany as a really positiv rate in this question.
                >
                > There's no such thing as 'completely free'. The teachers do not work for free,
                > the school office clerks do not work for free, the building is not being
                rented
                > for free. The pupils don't have to pay for the school (by the way this is also
                > not 100% true) but it doesn't make the system 'working for free'. In fact it
                is
                > less efficiently managed and therefore - more expensive.
                > That brings us back to the basic question: is the state educational system the
                > best solution? Or is it the worst?
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > bebe
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