Men have become ...

IP: *.crowley.pl 27.05.04, 08:38
Men have become the tools of their tools.
[Henry David Thoreau]
    • Gość: Impulse Re: Men have become ... IP: 217.153.181.* / 217.153.181.* 27.05.04, 11:00
      i co w zwiazku z tym ?
      • Gość: Bodzu Re: Men have become ... IP: *.crowley.pl 27.05.04, 11:44
        Mógłbym napisać 11-stronicowy elaborat na ten temat... tylko z tego co
        zauważyłem to do 3/4 tekstu przyczepiłby się H.T. pisząc jakieś głupawe posty
        a 99,(9)% ludzi odwiedzających to forum nie wyraziłoby żadnej opinii na ten
        temat - a także na mój komentarz, poza stwierdzeniami typu, iż gdzieś połknąłem
        literkę..., a wyraz którego użyłem mółby zostać zastąpiony innym... Cóż bardzo
        cenne uwagi - tylko pod jednym warunkiem (iż nie piszą ich złośliwi ludzie np.:
        H.T.) - poza tym mi bardziej zależy na dyskusji i wtedy gdy piszę szybko to
        zdarzają mi się różne kwiatki o kórych można podyskutować i ja na taką dyskusję
        jestem otwarty, ale chciałbym też by miała ona wymiar merytoryczny a nie tylko
        metodyczny... Konkludując: stwierdziłem, iż rozpiszę się jak głupi, a potem i
        tak wszyscy będą mieli to w d... więc rzuciłem hasło, które mi się spodobało i
        dało mi trochę do myślenia... już taka filozoficzna moja natura... więc
        stwierdziłem, że może ktoś jeszcze pomyśli nad tym choć 10 sekund, a że
        myślenie nie szkodzi (ma przyszłość... podobno ;-), a rzekłbym nawet iż jest
        wskazane ;-) to nie zaszkodzę wrzucając taki wątek. A gdyby ktos coś napisał od
        siebie, nie tylko:

        > i co w zwiazku z tym ?

        to może narodziłaby się jakaś polemika, dyskusja... Ale w coś takiego na tym
        forum już przestałem wierzyć - stąd moja pasywność...

        Are you satisfied ??? ;-)))
        • Gość: Iga Re: Men have become ... IP: *.warszawa.cvx.ppp.tpnet.pl 27.05.04, 15:42
          What tools do you mean? Or rather Thoreau meant... I'm talking about the
          latter...
          • Gość: Bodzu Nice to meet you... ;-) IP: *.crowley.pl 27.05.04, 16:17
            Henry David Thoreau (July 12, 1817 - May 6, 1862) was an American author and
            philosopher. But he lived in diffrent epoch.
            I'm thinking about him as a visionary... ;-) some kind of 'prophet' when I see
            what some people do! I think that a good example of this tool is TV. Some
            people (so-called 'couch-potatoes') watch TV all the time. Serials, news,
            films, ads - they watch them and they don't have time to meet friends drink
            cola or some 'POWER-cola' (like beer ;-))), to go in for sport, to set off a
            journey...
            They are prisoners of TV sets... And who was the inventor of TV... ? Dwarfs or
            gnomes.... ? God's gift... ? Maybe aliens... ??? NO... People inveted TV and
            became prisoners of their own invention. Lucky, there are many normal people
            who didn't...
            That's one example which can prove Thoreau's thesis is true...
            But there are many more...
            Maybe you agree with me, maybe not... I'm curious about your opinion... ;-)))
            • erwas Re: Nice to meet you... ;-) 27.05.04, 16:48
              listen, Bodzo...
              you did not quite grasp the implicatons of Iga's question. in modern English
              idiom, when you talk of a man's tool you are refering to an anatomical part.
              this gives a much narrower meaning to the old prophet's visionary philosophy.
              so your further comments about TV's being tools are incorrect. a TV is the
              wrong shape to be classified as a tool, and does not enter orifices easily. now
              a ICBM, or even a mini-nuke (size isn't everything) is perfect.
              • Gość: Bodzu Re: Nice to meet you... ;-) IP: *.crowley.pl 27.05.04, 17:31
                OK, I've known this meaning but, in fact, I didn't caught it in Iga's statement.
                I wanted to discuss about my thoughts... ;-) concerning Thoreau's words. But
                I'm glad that you've read that and you've said your opinion (about my ignorance
                of meaning 'tool'). Good, I'm on this forum to learn sth and sometimes to help
                (when I can ;-). And I'm very pleased when I make mistakes and someone corrects
                me because I don't do it in bad faith... I want to talk and this forum gives me
                a chance that someone helps me when I'm doing sth wrong or misusing sth...
                But I'm glad to hear constructive not destructive or malicious criticism...
                I won't express criticism of anybody because I don't have such an experience...
                But I'm waiting for correcting me... If someone's malicious I don't care...
                But then I won't learn anything and I'll be doing the same mistakes again and
                again... There are some wise people on this forum who can and like to help...
                But the others are... ;-))) Think of it... I don't want to offend anyone...
                That's not my purpose... I want to improve, improve, improve my English... ;-)))
              • Gość: Bodzu Re: Nice to meet you... ;-) IP: *.crowley.pl 27.05.04, 18:25
                tool (EQUIPMENT) =
                1. a piece of equipment which you use with your hands to make or repair
                something:
                'power tools'
                'machine tools'
                2. something that helps you to do a particular activity:
                'A free low-interest credit card can be a useful budgeting tool.'

                I think I'm right if you take this second meaning and treat TV
                as 'entertainment tool'. I won't insist on such a translation but I think in
                this meaning my interpretation is OK.

                • Gość: Bodzu Re: Nice to meet you... ;-) IP: *.crowley.pl 27.05.04, 18:28
                  Of course, TV as an 'entartainment tool' in figurative meaning...
                  Not LITERALLY...
    • Gość: muhozol Re: Men have become ... IP: *.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl 27.05.04, 16:17
      as far as I remember it's English only!!! ;)
      My tool has never been so 'toolish' before...Greets
      • Gość: Iga Re: Men have become ... IP: *.warszawa.cvx.ppp.tpnet.pl 28.05.04, 20:54
        Hi Bodzu. I was kidding when I suggested that sexist meaning. In fact, I am
        really respectful when it comes to Thoreau. I just did not think that YOU may
        treat him seriously. Have you read his
        • Gość: Bodzu Re: Men have become ... IP: *.crowley.pl 28.05.04, 22:39
          >>Have you read his
          Unfortunately you haven't finished your statement... ;-(

          >>I just did not think that YOU may treat him seriously
          In spite of my being joker I'm interested in philosophy, psychology and many
          more sciences... (another are more strict as physics, maths...)
          And I like thinking... ;-)))
          That's why I treated him him seriously... ;-)
          I'm open to suggestions and discussion... ;-)))
          See you ;-) Thanks for your post and t.g.i.f. ;-)))
          • erwas Re: Men have become ... 29.05.04, 00:34
            it was ME that was being disrespectful, and I, only I, deserve credit for that
            attitude.
            as for Henry David T.: just another New England Transindentalist Puritan in a
            failed quest to rejuvinate Calvinism.
            ..."tools of their tools"...
            how bleak and Calvinistic.
            • Gość: Bodzu Re: Men have become ... IP: *.crowley.pl 29.05.04, 02:07
              > it was ME that was being disrespectful, and I, only I, deserve credit for
              > that attitude
              Hmmmmmmm... Megalomania... ???
              I'm not looking for someone who will be arguing with me... I respect diffrent
              points of view but I need arguments to make discussion... Only being
              disrespectful... isn't enough... ;-)

              > as for Henry David T.: just another New England Transindentalist Puritan in a
              > failed quest to rejuvinate Calvinism.
              > ..."tools of their tools"...
              > how bleak and Calvinistic.

              This time your statement is very deep. You've done your lessons... ;-)))
              I wouldn't be emphasizing on this religious aspect of his philosophy...
              That's interesting... I am not lover of his artistic works (I mean writing).
              Some poems which I sometimes publish on this forum aren't his.
              That's only two things in his biography which arousing my interest...
              First - Thoreau was one of first American supporters of Charles Darwin's theory
              of evolution. For us this theory is obvious - then it wasn't... Roman (not
              only) Church was fighting against it because Darwin's theory denied Holy
              Bible's truths (seemingly)... In my opinion this fact shows brightness of his
              mind.
              Next (and last at the same time ;-)... Thoreau refused to pay taxes in 1846,
              based on his opposition to the Mexican War, and was later jailed.
              It remained me some statement I've heard once:
              'There are only two certain things all over the world. One is death and the
              other is paying taxes'...
              That's funny that Thoreau hadn't heard about it... ;-)))

              Oh my God, it's 2 A.M. ;-)))
              Bye ;-)))
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