Farenhait 9/11

IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 22.07.04, 09:14
I highly recommend this one. I've just seen it - it's excellent!

Just one question for a start: How come our independent media don't do any interviews with our mps on the subject of enlisting their kids in Iraq?

www.someplacesomewhere.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22606򈐜
www.goarmy.com/army101/benefits.htm
    • Gość: Aaron X Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: *.aster.pl / *.aster.pl 22.07.04, 12:44
      I hope to see it this week. Whether you agree with Moore or not, it sounds like
      the film shows up the timidity of the press in probing the case for war.
      • Gość: steph Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: *.range217-44.btcentralplus.com 22.07.04, 14:05
        I enjoyed the film immensely and found it rather scary. A dose of scepticism
        helps to separate propaganda from fact but still, the overall picture of
        American (though not only) politics under the present administration remains
        pretty grim.
        • mmaly Re: Farenhait 9/11 22.07.04, 14:43
          I've seen it and I strongly recommend it.
          I've always considered the whole terrorism stuff a nonsense. Before the war, I used to watch Fox News. Now I'd feel disgusted at the prospect of watching it.
          It's good people can tell what they think in America, because there would not have been a movie like that. But it's terrible, that America has become what it has become. The history will never be the same now.
          And I must confess I am afraid of what is coming now.
          • Gość: syd I also have a link IP: *.155.120.77.Dial1.Baltimore1.Level3.net 24.07.04, 05:38
            How could you trust someone when it can be proven that many parts of the movie
            are made up? Michael Moore is trying to make a point, not reveal the truth.

            Here's a link, if anyone is interested, to a dissection of another one of
            Michael Moore's movies. www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
          • usenetposts Re: Farenhait 9/11 24.07.04, 13:52
            mmaly napisał:

            > I've seen it and I strongly recommend it.
            > I've always considered the whole terrorism stuff a nonsense. Before the war,
            I
            > used to watch Fox News. Now I'd feel disgusted at the prospect of watching it.
            > It's good people can tell what they think in America, because there would not
            h
            > ave been a movie like that. But it's terrible, that America has become what
            it
            > has become. The history will never be the same now.
            > And I must confess I am afraid of what is coming now.


            Cheer up. We'll clean the scum off of the earth and then it'll be a better
            place for all fair minded and hard working people. Liberalism and abuse-
            neglecting tolerance has caused this earth of ours to need a spring clean, and
            George W. Bush is the man for the job. He's not even strong enough, for my
            liking, but he's the best we've got.

            We will win history, now. As it was the Muzzles were going to win it, because
            we had had our attention drawn for too ling on communism, and the old enemy
            Islam was growing in strength in that time...
            • chickenshorts The history ... & uncle Boo 24.07.04, 21:42
              usenetposts napisał:

              > mmaly napisał:
              (...) But it's terrible, that America has become wh
              > at
              > it
              > > has become. The history will never be the same now.

              > Cheer up. We'll clean the scum off of the earth and then it'll be a better
              > place for all fair minded and hard working people.

              Sure! Fair minded and hard working people, eh? A bit like you, you mean...
              Don't forget 'the solid rock on which I stand' bit... Gives the RIGHT air!


              > Liberalism and abuse-
              > neglecting tolerance has caused this earth of ours to need a spring clean,
              and
              > George W. Bush is the man for the job. He's not even strong enough, for my
              > liking,(...)

              No, 'corse not... But a man strong enough to bring about this:
              Deuteronomy 29:23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and
              burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like
              the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD
              overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:

              Deuteronomy 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of
              Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter(...)

              would do, wouldn't he, uncle? Well, give 'im another term and who knows?...

              >
              > We will win history, now.

              We?... Well, who's that?

              >As it was the Muzzles were going to win it, because
              > we had had our attention drawn for too ling on communism, and the old enemy
              > Islam was growing in strength in that time...

              Uncle Davy, ...'ow 'bout an 'ymn? The one you wrote (to the music of some...
              Herman... sorry, Handel?...

              Could I contribute?...
              "Our God is great! Allah is bollocks!
              Let us rejoice, Ywhe is winning! Praise the lord... and G.W. Bush!!!

              ...well, something poetic like this...

              Let me know if you are interested!

              Yours, shorts.


            • mmaly Re: Farenhait 9/11 25.07.04, 22:39

              > the old enemy
              > Islam was growing in strength in that time...
              >
              No.
              Terrorism is not islam.
              Islam means peace.
    • Gość: noMoore Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: 64.203.129.* 22.07.04, 23:49
      It's a good movie, but don't believe in everything you see. In fact don't
      believe it, period.

      www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
      • Gość: awalk Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 23.07.04, 09:23
        I don't think anybody believes in everything one sees. It is obvious that a lot of things in Moore's film are exaggerated and subjective.

        Kopel did a great, very meticulous and detailed job, and he found 59 deceits in the film. I just wonder how many deceits he would find in Bush propaganda if he cared to analyze it the same way.

        Let’s have it straight, both sides are guilty of selective information, manipulation and deceit but let me quote Moore from the link you gave us:

        “This film exists as a counterbalance to what you see on cable news about the coalition. I’m trying to counter the Orwellian nature of the Big Lie, as if when you hear that term, the ‘coalition,’ that the whole world is behind us.”

        A counterbalance is the key word here I think. The truth as always lies somewhere in between, and this is why this film is so much needed and worth seeing.
        • Gość: noMoore Love you answer IP: 64.203.129.* 23.07.04, 15:55
          So what is it? A chocolate or a fudge?
          • Gość: steph Re: Love you answer IP: *.range217-44.btcentralplus.com 23.07.04, 18:23
            I think awalk summed it up just right. Fine balance between facts and
            propaganda with the truth burried somewhere in between. Undoubtfully a thought
            provoking film for a discerning viewer.
            • Gość: noMoore you're must be kidding, steph IP: 64.203.129.* 23.07.04, 21:09
              There is no balance in F911. It's a hatchet job.
              www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110005392
              • sothis666 Re: you're must be kidding, steph 02.08.04, 22:25
                There's no balance indeed.
                To achieve that 'balance' the Moore's movie would have to do a lot of things:
                -kill about 100.000 people, both iraqui and americans,
                -spend nearly 300 billions of USD on weaponry and military industry,
                -definitely convince Iran that only nuclear weapons can guarantee its safety,
                -last but not least - draw 310 milions of PLN from RP budget (equivalent of 6000 school computer labs).

                ...after this you'll have a balance. For 9/11 is not responsible for the above things, I'd prefer the movie. Of course you may choose the GWB policy:)


        • Gość: cody Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: *.revers.nsm.pl 31.07.04, 22:41
          There's a lot of people here who make a statement that this movie is propaganda
          and you shouldn't believe what you've seen. Tell me which part of this movie is
          so hard to believe and is exaggerated!!
        • Gość: vivi Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: *.mia.bellsouth.net 02.08.04, 19:52
          Moore is stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Have you ever seen at least one interview with
          him? This "director" talks b...s.... He has no idea about anything. After
          hearing him talking I decided not to see his movie. He is STUPID< STUPID>>>>.
      • Gość: Rena Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: *.ucdavis.edu 27.07.04, 08:44
        Don't believe everything you is a great general rule of life. And it applies
        also to Kopel's site. If you read carefuly,analyze the sources that he relies
        on, and actualy check Moore's responses, Kopel's arguments turn out to be quite
        weak or at least disputable.
    • hermione_p It's "Fahreinheit 9.11" lol..... 23.07.04, 23:48
    • hermione_p or maybe "Fharenheit 9.11" ?? hmmm... lol 23.07.04, 23:50
    • hermione_p well...it's not "Fahrenheit 9.11" for sure... :))) 23.07.04, 23:53
      • Gość: awalk Re: well...it's not "Fahrenheit 9.11" for sure... IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 24.07.04, 07:50
        :)
    • Gość: aka Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: *.we.client2.attbi.com 27.07.04, 19:26
      this movie is NOT a documentary but a propaganda and it should be understood
      as such
      • mmaly Re: Farenhait 9/11 28.07.04, 11:14
        Anybody who says this film is nothing more but bullshit and propaganda did not watch Fox News at the time when the invasion was beginning.
    • Gość: Zed Brand new document by Michael Moore ;-> IP: *.wiwi.hu / *.wiwi.hu-berlin.de 30.07.04, 10:23
      (Communists and Islamists Press Agency, CIPA , 07/30/2006)
      Michael Moore wins again! Juries of next editions of european movie festivals in Cannes and Berlin announced, that he will obtain reward of Golden Palm and Golden Bear next year.
      In his brand new document Moore proves connections of George W. Bush to world conspiracy for controlling oil fields. For this purpose Bush collaborates with extraterrestial forms of life from Mars imitating human beings. He's also responsible for mysterious illness and dissapearing of agent Fox Mulder and dissapearing X Files - says John Doe from Pipette (OH).
      Audience of european film festivals could be witness of historical discovery. Moore proves, that George W. Bush is responsible for outbreak of communist revolution in 1917, as he shot from gun of "Aurora" cruiser. He is also responsible for fall of communism, causing mistakes of communists goverments in economy and policy. Proving this was really difficult, but Moore managed this making exclusive interview with mummy of V. Lenin.
      European countries are discontent of behaviour of US commercial TV stations, which don't broadcast Moore's movies. American TV station excuse that broadcasting these movies could reduce their credibility. The French president asked of opinion said: "These TV stations lost the great opportunity to shut up". The German prime minister asked the same question answered: "There are too low taxes in the USA. They should raise them as high as we have".
      • Gość: Breslauer Re: Brand new document by Michael Moore ;-> IP: *.sympatico.ca 30.07.04, 14:41
        Moore's movie relates to reality the same way this FARENHAIT relates to the
        real FAHRENHEIT: sounds and looks kinda the same, but ain't realy the same.
        Have a read, get confused by yet another helping of truth and logic:
        www.amconmag.com/2004_08_02/review.html
    • Gość: basia You are right Steph IP: *.cg.shawcable.net 30.07.04, 17:00
      I agree it is a thought provoking movie. It is a "wake up" movie for milions of
      American who believe everything they hear from media is true. It is an eye
      opener for millions of American who trusted their government and their
      president.
      But I do not have any illusions that a change of the ruling party will make
      things better. The corporations will be pulling the strings of Democrats as
      well. The change must be done on a much, much deeper level.
      I strongly recommend the movie "The Corporation" (played last year).
    • Gość: Father Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: *.net.pulawy.pl / *.net.pulawy.pl 30.07.04, 18:27
      If U wont find more about it please visit beethovenyg.hopto.org
      • Gość: Mr Re: Farenhait 9/11 - ??? IP: *.union01.nj.comcast.net 31.07.04, 18:20
        Gentelman, Panie.
        It is FAHRENHEIT.
        To był taki Niemiec co wynalazł termometr. Cza sie trochu podciągąć z tego
        angielskiego zanim zacznieta się popisywać tom elokwencjo na forumach.

        A Busz jest najwiekszy MORON w historii tego pięknego kraju. Problem jednak nie
        w Buszu. Problem w jego MISTRZU CEREMONII - pierdolonym - pardon - Czejnym z
        ekipą.
        No ale zostało im aby 6 miesięcy.
        • Gość: felusiak na oczy padl cien i wybrali sobie idiote IP: *.nyc.rr.com 31.07.04, 19:59
          Tak to juz jest, ze sa madrzy prezydenci i glupi prezydenci.
          FDR byl madrym prezydentem i zaraz po nim nastepujacu Truman tez byl madry.
          Ale w 1952 roku wygral glupiec, ktorego naiwni amerykanie trzymali w Bialym domu
          przez 8 lat. Cale szczescie, ze zaraz po Eisenhowerze wybrano po kolei dwoch
          madrych, Kennedy'ego i Johnsona. Niestety spoleczenstwo zostalo omamione przez
          glupca w 1968 roku i wybralo 2 razy Nixona. Glupiec nie dociagnal do konca
          kadencji i musial konczyc za niego glupi i do tego ciagle padajacy Ford.
          publicznosc poznala sie na nim i w 1976 roku wybrala naprawde madrego Cartera
          ale niestety tylko na 4 lata. Zaraz po nim kraj pograzyl sie w ciemnosciach.
          Przez 12 lat glupcy Reagan i GHW Bush zrobili takie spustoszenie, ze zbawieniem
          byl wybor niezwykle madrego Clintona, ktorego malzonka jest jak wiadomo
          najinteligentniejsza kobieta swiata. Ci amerykanie naprawde maja cos z glowami.
          Po super madrym Clintonie wybrali idiote GW Busha a przeciez wiadomo bylo, ze
          Gore byl od niego o wiele madrzejszy.

          W tym roku mamy znowu, tak jak co 4 lata kampanie wyborcza. Do wyboru, tak jak
          co 4 lata mamy madrego, inteligentnego Kerry'ego, ktory chce poprawic zycie
          wszystkim amerykanom i nieudacznika, debila Busha, ktory jak wszystkim wiadomo
          chce zaglodzic dzieci i starcow aby napchac kieszenia swoim kolezkom i na
          dodatek chce zatruc srodowisko.
          Wybor jest zatem prosty. Glosujmy na madrego. Na czlowieka obytego, ktory mowi
          biegle po francusku a nie na debila co nawet po angielsku nie umie.
          Moj wyborco do cholery
          Nie badz glupi, vote for Kerry
          Bush ci tylko dupe zlupi
          Tak jak mowie, nie badz glupi.
          • Gość: Mr Re: na oczy padl cien i wybrali sobie idiote IP: *.union01.nj.comcast.net 01.08.04, 15:37
            Gość portalu: felusiak napisał(a):

            > Tak to juz jest, ze sa madrzy prezydenci i glupi prezydenci.

            Well, all's well but...

            "W" was not ELECTED. He was nominated by the court.
            Slight difference.
            • Gość: obiektywny Re: na oczy padl cien i wybrali sobie idiote IP: 217.97.* / *.internetdsl.tpnet.pl 02.08.04, 06:11
              Mlodszy Bush jest jedenym z najlepszych prezydentow w historii USA.
              Amerykanie napewno wybiora Busha na nastepne 4 lata.
              • Gość: Beware_of_zasadzka Oh, yea? And how DO YOU KNOW?? IP: *.union01.nj.comcast.net 02.08.04, 15:30
                Gość portalu: obiektywny napisał(a):

                > Mlodszy Bush jest jedenym z najlepszych prezydentow w historii USA.
                > Amerykanie napewno wybiora Busha na nastepne 4 lata.

                Is this a matter of fact or a matter of opinion?
                Seems to me that you don't know Jack S.
            • Gość: dystorcjusz Re: na oczy padl cien i wybrali sobie idiote IP: 64.203.129.* 02.08.04, 17:05
              Get over this!
              W was elected fair and square. The court merely stopped frivolous* recount.
              Read the Consortium report.

              * frivolous - recounts under the different standards in the different counties.

              Read the Constitution and once and for all learn that Gore stood no chance to be
              elected and whole thing was a fishing expedition.
              The case dragged in courts and the matter would have to go to the Florida
              legislature where republicans had the majority. If the legislature couldn't
              resolve it on time the final vote would take place in Congress. One state one vote.
              Bush had 29 states and Gore had only 20.
              • Gość: Beware_of_zasadzka Re: na oczy padl cien i wybrali sobie idiote IP: *.union01.nj.comcast.net 02.08.04, 19:08
                If couple of hundres QUESTIONABLE votes means "fair and square" I am the Prince of
                Arabia my friend, and neither am I or you are my friend.

                As for "getting over" - will see in 6 months.
                Period.
                To me and EVERYBODY I know he is a moron on the V-ce Prez. and his clan not to
                long leash - mostly barking in front of
                cameras. That's his job.
                6 more months and say "chease".

                • Gość: dystorcjusz Re: na oczy padl cien i wybrali sobie idiote IP: 64.203.129.* 02.08.04, 22:52
                  At the very moment Gore questioned vote count in four democratic counties
                  demanding the hand recount all the votes became questionable.
                  I've read Dee's piece. It's increadible mental contortion.
                  Kemp was referring to Gore being the assassin not to Bush.

                  PS. Your sources are beneath reasonable.

                  PS2. Kerry does not seem to be getting any milage from the convention.
                  In my humble opinion he is a wrong candidate, sort of what Dole was in 1996.
                  He will lose this coming election by sizeable margin. But don't take my word to
                  the bank. It's a prediction.

                  • Gość: Beware_of_zasadzka Idiot a to nie ten który nie umie czytać... IP: *.union01.nj.comcast.net 03.08.04, 00:35
                    ...ale ten, który kłamiąc przed Senatem i Kongresem DOKŁADNIE jak 40 lat temu. Angażuje kraj w wojnę i za to powinien być
                    ścięty a nie niewybrany ponownie. Strach przed tym na co naraża 19-20 letnie
                    dzieciaki w imie korporacyjnych naftowych interesów działałby być może
                    ostudzająco.

                    Busz GW przejdzie (rychło) do historii jako postać clowna, który kłamiąc na 100
                    sposobów rozpoczął bezsensowną wojnę o ropę i nie potrafił jej skończyć.
                    Do tego należałoby doliczyć deficyt i zamknąć tę książkę wstydu.
                    Wobec tego - to czy Kerry mówi po francusku czy kreolsku jest bez znaczenia.
    • Gość: !!! Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: 195.152.54.* 02.08.04, 10:30
      The back story is as follows: earlier this month, the web site for
      the Bush-Cheney campaign - the real one, paid for by MBNA America and
      Richard Scaife - featured a "create your own banner" tool, where you
      could enter your own slogan and print out your own poster, with the
      Bush-Cheney logo, and a note at the bottom "paid for by Bush-Cheney'04, Inc."
      Democrats, of course, couldn't get enough of this.
      The original sloganator accepted everything, then it startedcensoring
      profanity and words like "Hitler" "dictator," and "evil".
      Nevertheless, many clever folks exploited the sloganator to their own
      ends before its sad demise only a couple of weeks after its birtand
      its mourners assembled some of the best for the slide show.
      The link below is best enjoyed with the sound on:

      homepages.nyu.edu/~meo232/sloganator/
      • chickenshorts Re: Farenhait 9/11 02.08.04, 11:52
        "Kerry looks French"

        it's a slur!

        Les Americans, vous ete degutant. Merde...
    • Gość: beat Re: Farenhait 9/11 IP: *.proxyplus.cz / 213.17.208.* 02.08.04, 15:20
      Whatewer you would say about this film, there must be a grain of truth
      • Gość: Beware_of_zasadzka Ciepło, ciepło, ciepło... IP: *.union01.nj.comcast.net 02.08.04, 16:52
        ...gorąco !
        Temperatury w Iraku często przekraczają 50 stopni w cieniu (a cienia jest
        niewiele)...
        Dla żołnierza, który nie do końca wie po co tam siedzi, który nie wie jak długo
        ma siedzieć i który nosi 15 kg. kamizelkę przeciwodłamkową i mundur bynajmniej
        nieprzypominający stroju kąpielowego jest to conajmniej dziwna sytuacja a jego
        wiara w to co w telewizyjnych przemówieniach z satelity mówi jego "Commander
        and Chief GWB" jest conajmniej ograniczona. To mniej więcej jak przemówienia
        Hitlera dla Niemca w stalingradzkim okopie smażącego szczura na ruszcie bagnetu
        i grzejącego ręce jednocześnie. Ważne żeby futerko dobrze opalić a ogona nie
        spalić oraz nie mysleć co szczur przedtem jadł.
    • colorus link do filmu na Kazie 02.08.04, 20:41
      poprosze uprzejmie
      • chickenshorts Ciepło, ciepło, ciepło... 03.08.04, 00:32
        Yes!...

        When asked by his American publisher how would he like his book (on Stalin's
        purges) retitled for the American public, Robert Conquest suggested: "I told
        you so, you fucking idiots"

        Isn't the real question here more like: if the "leading nation" got awaken(ed)
        by Michael Moore, how long will that nation stay awake?
        They have... let me refuse to think... Mel Gibson... they have... erm, future
        presidents Shwarc @ Neger... any other suggestions?

        Yeah, let's bomb America
        (hi, Kenny)
        • Gość: Beware_of_zasadzka Re: Ciepło, ciepło, ciepło... IP: *.union01.nj.comcast.net 03.08.04, 01:10
          Należałoby jeszcze pogratulować odchodzącej Administracji amerykańskiej
          przeprowadzenia Afganistanu z drogi ciemnoty skrajnego fundamentalizmu
          religijnego (m.in. kara śmierci za narkotyki) na świetlaną drogę gospodarki światowej.
          75% dominacji w opium? Gratulacje. To musi być spora kasa. Teraz ją tylko
          odpowiednio zainwestować i wydać. 2 McDonaldy przy każdym meczecie? Zamiast
          rozwodnionej Koli - do kubeczków leje się koncentrat.
          • chickenshorts Re: Ciepło, ciepło, ciepło... 03.08.04, 01:53
            >odchodzącej Administracji<

            Are you sure about that? :)
            Or just hopeful?...
            In any case...Great work, comrade!

            • Gość: wacko jacko Re: Ciepło, ciepło, ciepło... IP: *.nyc.rr.com 03.08.04, 04:19
              He's hatefully hopeful on one side and hopelessly hateful on the other.
    • beat Re: Farenhait 9/11 03.08.04, 09:36
      And what do you think about the poster?
      When I saw it I thought it must be some silly American (another version of
      American Pie)
      • chickenshorts Re: Farenhait 9/11 03.08.04, 11:30
        "We are a nation in danger - Bush "

        www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1274924,00.html
        I wouldn't trust him. A few days ago you (we) were much safer @ now you (we)
        are in danger? How come?...

        PS. American Pie on your face.

        • Gość: Beware_of_zasadzka Re: Farenhait 9/11 - its FAHRENHEIT you idiots! IP: *.union01.nj.comcast.net 03.08.04, 14:07
          There is a bridge on the BQE highway in NYC on the way from Manhattan to
          Brooklyn: Kosciuszko Bridge .
          Most of the time the traffic there is BAD that it is reported on the radio like
          weather and with local weather report.
          Often they try hard, but when they say it it is something like "Tedus
          Koshkasko" and the like. And you would think that by now...
          There is one more Upstate New York. 95% of Americans would not have any idea who
          this gentelman was. Who cares?

          This said I have a question: why Poles are so much in love with Bush? All he
          cares about is his Iraq adventure not you.


          • chickenshorts Re: Farenhait 9/11 - its FAHRENHEIT you idiots! 03.08.04, 18:50

            Sorry, Beware, I meant bro/sis when I said 'comrade'...

            Slip of the tongue
            (or was it tung?...)
          • Gość: awalk It's on the way to Greenpoint you idiot! IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 03.08.04, 18:58
            btw. they say it Kosijasko
          • Gość: wacko jacko Re: Farenhait 9/11 - its FAHRENHEIT you idiots! IP: *.nyc.rr.com 03.08.04, 20:14
            The fact Americans do not know who Kosciuszko, Pulaski, Lafayette and von Steuben
            were falls on the lap of the democratic party beholding to the teacher's union.

            PS. Kosciuszko Bridge connects Brooklyn with Queens, not Manhattan.

            PS 2 . J. Kerry said in his convention address " I will respond to any attack".
            So he will wait until attacked and then he'll respond.
            I want my president to do everything possible to prevent that attack.
            • Gość: Beware_of_zasadzka Greenpoint IS BROOKLYN, but Brooklyn is not. IP: *.union01.nj.comcast.net 03.08.04, 20:24
              Gość portalu: wacko jacko napisał(a):

              > The fact Americans do not know who Kosciuszko, Pulaski, Lafayette and von
              Steub
              > en
              > were falls on the lap of the democratic party beholding to the teacher's
              union.
              >
              > PS. Kosciuszko Bridge connects Brooklyn with Queens, not Manhattan.

              Sorry, not my part of The Woods. Whatever.

              > PS 2 . J. Kerry said in his convention address " I will respond to any
              attack".
              > So he will wait until attacked and then he'll respond.
              > I want my president to do everything possible to prevent that attack.

              It is quite unimportant who says what 6 months before the election.
              What counts is ACTION to follow. Like fighting in the fighter jet under
              Alabama sky.
              Or like this Sept 11 prevention!
              • Gość: Beware_of_zasadzka Re: Greenpoint IS BROOKLYN, but Brooklyn is not. IP: *.union01.nj.comcast.net 03.08.04, 20:30
                Kockucko or Koshkashko - who cares?
                The fact is that Americans are quite ignorant about the rest of the Word and
                its own history and IT IS NOT TEACHERS UNION FAULT YOU IDIOT!

                Half are positive we are in Iraq, because Iraq attacked us on Sept 11.

                So outgoing Prez is JUST PERFECT for the job.
                Congratulations for being so happy about it.
                For now.
                • Gość: wacko jacko Re: Greenpoint IS BROOKLYN, but Brooklyn is not. IP: *.nyc.rr.com 03.08.04, 21:11
                  We say "neck of the woods" not "part of the woods".

                  If not the teacher's union whose fault is it?

                  The election is 3 months away not six.

                  I might be an idiot in your opinion but I don't live in a shithole like Union, NJ.

                  "Outgoing president" ? Wishful thinking. Is there something in the water or you
                  just smoked a joint?
                  • chickenshorts Re: Greenpoint IS BROOKLYN... 03.08.04, 23:03
                    Gość portalu: wacko jacko napisał(a):

                    > We say "neck of the woods" not "part of the woods".

                    So?...

                    >If not the teacher's union whose fault is it?

                    Yours!
                    >
                    > The election is 3 months away not six.
                    >
                    > I might be an idiot in your opinion but I don't live in a shithole like
                    Union,
                    > NJ.
                    >
                    > "Outgoing president" ? Wishful thinking. Is there something in the water or
                    you
                    > just smoked a joint?

                    How 'bout this?
                    "I want my president to do everything possible to prevent that attack."

                    A fucking pearl of you deep thinking, of your whacky profoundity...
                    • Gość: wacko jacko Re: Greenpoint IS BROOKLYN... IP: *.nyc.rr.com 04.08.04, 04:30
                      Chickenshorts you are not qualified to answer these questions.
                      Don't bother.

                      PS. I wonder how old are you?

                      > A fucking pearl of you deep thinking, of your whacky profoundity...

                      An example of a fabulousheles writing skills. Who would've thonk it.
                      • chickenshorts Re: Greenpoint IS BROOKLYN... 04.08.04, 11:29
                        Well, well... Who else would answer?

                        Gość portalu: wacko jacko napisał(a):

                        > Chickenshorts you are not qualified to answer these questions.

                        Says fucking who?...

                        > Don't bother.

                        No bother...

                        > PS. I wonder how old are you?

                        150. You?...

                        > > A fucking pearl of you deep thinking, of your whacky profoundity...

                        > An example of a fabulousheles writing skills. Who would've thonk it.

                        Sorry! I'll go back to quotes, shall I?

                        Here's one, from the Guardian, a bril (even you'll like it - in my stupid mind):
                        "Farenheit!(sigh) Moore allegedly embellishes a fact, everyone has a laugh and
                        the Repugs go into a lather. Bush embellishes a lie, tens of thousands die and
                        the Repugs lead a cheer squad. Says it all really."


                        • Gość: wacko jacko Re: Greenpoint IS BROOKLYN... IP: *.nyc.rr.com 04.08.04, 16:50
                          > Chickenshorts you are not qualified to answer these questions.

                          Says fucking who?...

                          Says (fucking) I !!!!!!!!
                          You have no idea how to get from Bayside to Kings Point and that's my point.

                          I don't give a flying fuck about the rest of your rant.
                          • Gość: veneer Fahrenheit 9/11 IP: *.olsztyn.mm.pl 24.08.04, 07:19
                            "The beginning of history", by John Berger.
                            Fahrenheit 9/11 has touched millions of viewers across the world. But could it
                            actually change the course of civilisation?

                            "Fahrenheit 9/11 is astounding. Not so much as a film - although it is cunning
                            and moving - but as an event. Most commentators try to dismiss the event and
                            disparage the film. We will see why later.
                            The artists on the Cannes film festival jury apparently voted unanimously to
                            award Michael Moore's film the Palme d'Or. Since then it has touched many
                            millions across the world. In the US, its box-office takings for the first six
                            weeks amounted to more than $100m, which is, astoundingly, about half of what
                            Harry Potter made during a comparable period. Only the so-called opinion-makers
                            in the media appear to have been put out by it.

                            The film, considered as a political act, may be a historical landmark. Yet to
                            have a sense of this, a certain perspective for the future is required. Living
                            only close-up to the latest news, as most opinion-makers do, reduces one's
                            perspectives. The film is trying to make a small contribution towards the
                            changing of world history. It is a work inspired by hope.

                            What makes it an event is the fact that it is an effective and independent
                            intervention into immediate world politics. Today it is rare for an artist to
                            succeed in making such an intervention, and in interrupting the prepared,
                            prevaricating statements of politicians. Its immediate aim is to make it less
                            likely that President Bush will be re-elected next November.

                            To denigrate this as propaganda is either naive or perverse, forgetting
                            (deliberately?) what the last century taught us. Propaganda requires a
                            permanent network of communication so that it can systematically stifle
                            reflection with emotive or utopian slogans. Its pace is usually fast.
                            Propaganda invariably serves the long-term interests of some elite.

                            This single maverick movie is often reflectively slow and is not afraid of
                            silence. It appeals to people to think for themselves and make connections. And
                            it identifies with, and pleads for, those who are normally unlistened to.
                            Making a strong case is not the same thing as saturating with propaganda. Fox
                            TV does the latter; Michael Moore the former.

                            Ever since the Greek tragedies, artists have, from time to time, asked
                            themselves how they might influence ongoing political events. It's a tricky
                            question because two very different types of power are involved. Many theories
                            of aesthetics and ethics revolve round this question. For those living under
                            political tyrannies, art has frequently been a form of hidden resistance, and
                            tyrants habitually look for ways to control art. All this, however, is in
                            general terms and over a large terrain. Fahrenheit 9/11 is something different.
                            It has succeeded in intervening in a political programme on the programme's own
                            ground.

                            For this to happen a convergence of factors were needed. The Cannes award and
                            the misjudged attempt to prevent the film being distributed played a
                            significant part in creating the event.

                            To point this out in no way implies that the film as such doesn't deserve the
                            attention it is receiving. It's simply to remind ourselves that within the
                            realm of the mass media, a breakthrough (a smashing down of the daily wall of
                            lies and half-truths) is bound to be rare. And it is this rarity which has made
                            the film exemplary. It is setting an example to millions - as if they'd been
                            waiting for it.

                            The film proposes that the White House and Pentagon were taken over in the
                            first year of the millennium by a gang of thugs so that US power should
                            henceforth serve the global interests of the corporations: a stark scenario
                            which is closer to the truth than most nuanced editorials. Yet more important
                            than the scenario is the way the movie speaks out. It demonstrates that -
                            despite all the manipulative power of communications experts, lying
                            presidential speeches and vapid press conferences - a single independent voice,
                            pointing out certain home truths which countless Americans are already
                            discovering for themselves, can break through the conspiracy of silence, the
                            atmosphere of fear and the solitude of feeling politically impotent.

                            It's a movie that speaks of obstinate faraway desires in a period of
                            disillusion. A movie that tells jokes while the band plays the apocalypse. A
                            movie in which millions of Americans recognise themselves and the precise ways
                            in which they are being cheated. A movie about surprises, mostly bad but some
                            good, being discussed together. Fahrenheit 9/11 reminds the spectator that when
                            courage is shared one can fight against the odds.

                            In more than a thousand cinemas across the country, Michael Moore becomes with
                            this film a people's tribune. And what do we see? Bush is visibly a political
                            cretin, as ignorant of the world as he is indifferent to it; while the tribune,
                            informed by popular experience, acquires political credibility, not as a
                            politician himself, but as the voice of the anger of a multitude and its will
                            to resist.

                            There is something else which is astounding. The aim of Fahrenheit 9/11 is to
                            stop Bush fixing the next election as he fixed the last. Its focus is on the
                            totally unjustified war in Iraq. Yet its conclusion is larger than either of
                            these issues. It declares that a political economy which creates colossally
                            increasing wealth surrounded by disastrously increasing poverty, needs - in
                            order to survive - a continual war with some invented foreign enemy to maintain
                            its own internal order and security. It requires ceaseless war.

                            Thus, 15 years after the fall of communism, a decade after the declared end of
                            history, one of the main theses of Marx's interpretation of history again
                            becomes a debating point and a possible explanation of the catastrophes being
                            lived.

                            It is always the poor who make the most sacrifices, Fahrenheit 9/11 announces
                            quietly during its last minutes. For how much longer?

                            There is no future for any civilisation anywhere in the world today which
                            ignores this question. And this is why the film was made and became what it
                            became. It's a film that deeply wants America to survive."
                            • Gość: !!! Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 IP: 195.152.54.* 02.09.04, 13:55
                              George W. visits a primary school in Florida and sits in on one of the
                              classes which is in the middle of a discussion on words and
                              their meanings. The teacher asks President Bush if he would like to lead the
                              discussion of the word "Tragedy."
                              So, the illustrious leader asks the class for an example of "Tragedy."
                              One little boy stands up and offers: "If my best friend, who lives on a
                              farm, is playing in the field and a runaway tractor comes along and
                              knocks him dead, that would be a tragedy."
                              "That's wrong," Bush grinned, "That would be considered an accident."
                              A little girl raises her hand: "If a school bus carrying 50 children
                              drove over a cliff, killing everyone inside, that would be a tragedy."
                              "You are completely incorrect," smirks George W. "That would be what we would
                              consider a great loss."

                              The room goes silent. No other children volunteer. Bush searches the
                              room. "Isn't there someone here who can give me an example of a tragedy?"

                              Finally at the back of the room a small boy raises his hand. In a quiet
                              voice he says "If a plane carrying the President of the United States were
                              struck by a missile and blown to smithereens, that would be a tragedy."
                              "Fantastic!" cries George. "You are absolutely right. Can you tell me
                              why that would be a tragedy?"
                              • Gość: !!! Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 IP: 195.152.54.* 02.09.04, 14:56
                                "Well," says the boy "because it sure as hell wouldn't be a great loss and
                                it probably wouldn't be an accident!"
                                • Gość: awalk Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 02.09.04, 17:04
                                  lol
                                  • Gość: !!! Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 it is not but seriously IP: 195.152.54.* 02.09.04, 18:27
                                    so you will love this as well

                                    I have been a Travel Agent for thirty Years, and I believe that this

                                    is why our country is in the trouble it's in!

                                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

                                    I had a New Hampshire Congresswoman ask for an aisle seat on the plane so
                                    that her hair wouldn't get messed up by being near the window.

                                    I got a call from a candidate's staffer, who wanted to go to Capetown. I
                                    started to explain the length of the flight and the passport information,
                                    then she interrupted me with, "I'm not trying to make you look stupid, but
                                    Capetown is in Massachusett s." Without trying to make her look like the
                                    stupid one, I calmly explained, "Cape Cod is in Massachusetts, Capetown is
                                    in Africa." Her response .(click).

                                    A senior Vermont Congressman called, furious about a Florida vacation
                                    package we did. I asked what was wrong with the vacation in Orlando. He
                                    said
                                    he was expecting an ocean-view room. I tried to explain that is not
                                    possible
                                    since Orlando is in the middle of the state. He replied, "Don't lie to me.
                                    I looked on the map, and Florida is a very thin state!"

                                    I got a call from a lawmaker's wife who asked, "Is it possible to see
                                    England from Canada?" I said, "No." She said, "But they look

                                    so close on the map."

                                    An aide for a Bush cabinet member once called and asked if he could rent a
                                    car in Dallas. When I pulled up the reservation, I noticed he had only a
                                    1-hour layover in Dallas. When I asked him why he wanted to rent a car, he
                                    said, "I heard Dallas was a big airport, and we will need a car to drive
                                    between the gates to save time."

                                    An Illinois Congresswoman called last week. She needed to know how it was
                                    possible that her flight from Detroit left at 8:20 a.m. and got into
                                    Chicago
                                    at 8:33 a.m. I tried to explain that Michigan was an hour ahead of
                                    Illinois,
                                    but she could not understand the concept of time zones. Finally, I told her
                                    the plane went very fast, and she bought that!

                                    A New York lawmaker called and asked, "Do airlines put your physical
                                    description on your bag so they know whose luggage belongs to whom?" I
                                    said,
                                    "No, why do you ask?" She replied, "Well, when I checked in with the
                                    airline
                                    they put a tag on my luggage that said (FAT), and I'm overweight. I think
                                    that is very rude?" After putting her on hold for a minute while I 'looked
                                    into it' (I was actually laughing). I came back and explained the city code
                                    for Fresno, CA is (FAT), and that the airline was just putting a
                                    destination
                                    tag on her luggage.

                                    A Senator's aide called to inquire about a trip package to Hawaii. After
                                    going over all the cost info, she asked, "Would it be cheaper to fly to
                                    California and then take the train to Hawaii?"

                                    I just got off the phone with a freshman Congressman who asked, "How do I
                                    know which plane to get on?" I asked him what exactly he meant, to which he
                                    replied, "I was told my flight number is 823, but none of these darn planes
                                    have numbers on them."

                                    A lady Senator called and said, "I need to fly to Pepsi-Cola, FL. Do I have
                                    to get on one of those little computer planes?" I asked if she meant fly to
                                    Pensacola, FL on a commuter plane. She said, "Yeah, whatever!

                                    A senior Senator called and had a question about the documents he

                                    needed in order to fly to China. After a lengthy discussion about
                                    passports,
                                    I reminded him that he needed a visa. "Oh, no I don't. I've been to China
                                    many times and never had to have one of those." I double checked and sure
                                    enough, his stay required a visa. When I told him this he said, "Look,
                                    I've
                                    been to China four times and every time they have accepted my American
                                    Express!"

                                    A New Mexico Congresswoman called to make reservations, "I want to go from
                                    Chicago to Rhino, New York." The agent was at a loss for words. Finally,
                                    the agent said, "Are you sure that's the name of the town?" "Yes,what
                                    flights do you have?" replied the lady. After some searching, the agent
                                    came back with, "I'm sorry, ma'am, I've looked up every airport code in the
                                    country and can't find a Rhino anywhere."The lady retorted, "Oh,don't be
                                    silly! Everyone knows where it is. Check your map!" The agent scoured a
                                    map of the state of New York and finally offered, "You don't mean Buffalo,
                                    do you?" "That's it! I knew it was a big animal," she said.
                                    • Gość: awalk Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 it is not but seriously IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 05.09.04, 09:01
                                      I love it I really do. 'I knew it was a big animal' is the best in my opinion. Politicians are equally dumb all over the world. That's the system.
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