kiedy "c" czytamy jak [k] kiedy jak [s]

16.11.05, 10:11
ostatnio usłyszałam, jak ktoś na hondę civic mówi [honda kiwik] i uzasadnia
to tym, że skoro drugie "c" mówimy jak [k] to dlaczego pierwsze nie. z
drugiej strony mamy "city", "cinema", w których "c" wymawiamy jak [s], ale
już w "combination" mówimy [k]. Czy jest jakaś zasada? jak powinno się
porawnie mówić, siwik czy kiwik przy tej nieszczęsnej hondzie?
    • doctormad Re: kiedy "c" czytamy jak [k] kiedy jak [s] 16.11.05, 10:44
      generalnie możesz założyć że:
      c przed [i] oraz [e] czytam [s] - center, certificate, civilian....i civic
      [sivik]
      c przed pozostałymi czytam [k] - combustion, custody, curve [er], cat, caulk
      itp.

      są oczywiście wyjątki: np. celtic czytamy [keltik].

      Pozdro,
      doctormad
      • usenetposts Re: kiedy "c" czytamy jak [k] kiedy jak [s] 16.11.05, 11:58
        Our "c/g" dichotomy is pretty much the same as that of other languages which
        have ex-latin loanstock. The "soft" vowels e, i and y used as a vowel cause a
        preceding "c" to be pronounced like an 's' and 'g' to be pronounced as a 'j'.

        Incidentally, the "soft" vowels are also known as "front" vowels because they
        are enunciated more closer to the front of the mouth.

        Hard positions, such as the final position, and followed by back
        vowels 'a', 'o' and 'u', retain the default pronunciation, as originally found
        in Latin prior to the 3rd Century. If someone says Honda "Kivic", then they are
        aping Cicero, who would have called himself "Kickero", by the way, although I
        should think he didn't drive a Honda.

        The way in which the soft 'c' and 'g' started to differentiate in the Vulgate
        differed depending on where you were. In French, the 'c' became an 's', in
        Castillian Spanish a "th" sound (although Latin American Spanish also has
        an "s" sound). Italian and Romanian have a "ch" sound. Likewise the soft "g"
        became a "zh" sound in French, a "h" in Castillian, and like the English "j"
        sound in Italian, which has no native use for "j" at all.

        English followed the French over the soft "c", but the Italian over the
        soft "g".

        Now in words of a Germanic or other non-Latin origin, you can find exceptions
        to these rules. For instance, "Get" is a hard 'g', but "guest" which is also
        hard, needs a "u" in it to stop it colliding with the 'j' sound of "gesture".

        The barrier letter which gets you back to a hard pronunciation of 'c' and 'g'
        when followed by a soft vowel also differs from language to language. Some
        times a "u" is used as in French "guerre", In Spanish to pronounce "kiosk" they
        needed to default to "quiosque". In Italian and Romanian 'h' is used, as
        in "Gheorghiou", "Chipul", Lamborghini, amiche, etc.

        English followed the French model here on the 'g' and used its abundant 'k' for
        the c words. "Ch" in any event is taken, as it was already used for the Saxon
        words in soft 'K' that were in the language already prior to the mixing in of
        Norman French. Words in "Ch" are usually Germanic cognates such as Church
        (Kirche) to etch (aetzen) etc. In some cases we get pairs such as "skirt"
        and "shirt" (it was "schirt" but "s" plus "ch" became "sh") "skip"
        and "ship", "Kirk" and "church" where the Viking word retains the "k" sound,
        and the Saxon word doesn't.

        "coupon" and "cheap" both come from the same root as German "kaufen", but the
        word "cheap" was softened, as it was followed by a front vowel, and "coupon"
        wasn't as it was followed by a back vowel.

        Hope that explains matters.
      • barteks0 Re: kiedy "c" czytamy jak [k] kiedy jak [s] 19.11.05, 21:32
        Celtic można czytać na dwa sposoby [seltik] i [keltik]
        • easystreet Re: kiedy "c" czytamy jak [k] kiedy jak [s] 20.11.05, 00:14
          /k/ castle, California, cannibal,
          /s/ century, cent, celebrate
          /k/ council, conciliatory, civilization
          s/ /s/ /s/
          /k/ cube, cumin, curious

          Nie pamietajac reguly, "przeszlam" przez samogloski i wyszlo, ze tylko przed "i
          and e " c czyta sie jak /s/. Any exceptions?
        • doctormad Re: kiedy "c" czytamy jak [k] kiedy jak [s] 21.11.05, 09:24
          barteks0 napisał:

          > Celtic można czytać na dwa sposoby [seltik] i [keltik]

          niestety masz rację. a myślałem ze jestem mądry, hehe.
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