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"dyspozycyjny" in English??

IP: proxy / *.chello.pl 04.12.02, 16:46
How would you translate??
Thanks in advance:))
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          • Gość: From Evanston Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English?? IP: *.nuts.northwestern.edu 17.12.02, 06:05
            Thus far, the translation tips regarding the word "dyspozycyjny" have been misleading.
            You cannot (and should not) translate this word into "dispatcher," since "dispatcher" means "dyspozytor," that is one
            who gives directions and directives, a superior, one who commends. By contrast, "dyspozycyjny" refers to one who
            takes directions and directives, one who agrees to be in a subordinated position. Likewise, you cannot (and should
            not) translate the word "dyspozycyjny" into the phrase "at one's disposal." Why? Because this phrase means "w
            czyjejs dyspozycji," a nie "dyspozycyjny." To make this difference clear, I could say, "Joanna has a lot of cash at her
            disposal" ("Joanna ma duzo gotowki do swojej dyspozycji"), which does not mean that she is "dyspozycyjna."
            Moreover, the word "dyspozycyjny" often has a negative connotation. It describes an individual who willingly accepts
            the prospect of being used by somebody else, usually by one's superiors. In the PRL, "dyspozycyjny aparatczyk"
            meant "a party apparatchik who too easily does what his or her superiors wanted him or her to do. If I say, "Joanna
            jest taka dyspozycyjna," I suggest that she eagerly (too eagerly) takes orders from her superiors. To get rid of this
            negative dimension, you should translate "dyspozycyjny" into "flexible" (elastyczny, chcacy i majacy potencjal do
            dostosowania sie do roznych wymogow i okolicznosci, na przyklad w pracy). However, if you want to emphasize
            both one's flexibility and one's ability to take somebody else's orders uncritically, the word "disposable" seems to much
            better. It means "free for use, available" but also carries a sense of moral flexibility.
            • Gość: chickenshorts Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English?? IP: *.abo.wanadoo.fr 17.12.02, 07:35
              Gość portalu: From Evanston napisał(a):

              > Thus far, the translation tips regarding the word "dyspozycyjny" have been
              misl
              > eading.
              > You cannot (and should not) translate this word into "dispatcher,"
              since "dispa
              > tcher" means "dyspozytor," that is one
              > who gives directions and directives, a superior, one who commends. By
              contrast,
              > "dyspozycyjny" refers to one who
              > takes directions and directives, one who agrees to be in a subordinated
              positio
              > n. Likewise, you cannot (and should
              > not) translate the word "dyspozycyjny" into the phrase "at one's disposal."
              Why
              > ? Because this phrase means "w
              > czyjejs dyspozycji," a nie "dyspozycyjny." To make this difference clear, I
              cou
              > ld say, "Joanna has a lot of cash at her
              > disposal" ("Joanna ma duzo gotowki do swojej dyspozycji"), which does not
              mean
              > that she is "dyspozycyjna."
              > Moreover, the word "dyspozycyjny" often has a negative connotation. It
              describe
              > s an individual who willingly accepts
              > the prospect of being used by somebody else, usually by one's superiors. In
              the
              > PRL, "dyspozycyjny aparatczyk"
              > meant "a party apparatchik who too easily does what his or her superiors
              wanted
              > him or her to do. If I say, "Joanna
              > jest taka dyspozycyjna," I suggest that she eagerly (too eagerly) takes
              orders
              > from her superiors. To get rid of this
              > negative dimension, you should translate "dyspozycyjny" into "flexible"
              (elasty
              > czny, chcacy i majacy potencjal do
              > dostosowania sie do roznych wymogow i okolicznosci, na przyklad w pracy).

              Christ! What a performance! You must be a walking (cycling) Cyclopedia...
              of rather useless knowledge, I'm afraid...


              Howev
              > er, if you want to emphasize
              > both one's flexibility and one's ability to take somebody else's orders
              uncriti
              > cally, the word "disposable" seems to much
              > better. It means "free for use, available" but also carries a sense of moral
              fl
              > exibility.

              Like nappies, right? Or, bin liners, carrier bags...? These show certainly
              great flexibility!
              • Gość: From Evanston Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English?? IP: *.nuts.northwestern.edu 17.12.02, 08:20
                You cannot be partially pregnant. You either translate a phrase/word correctly or you don't. If you don't, or if you
                follow misleading tips, you risk both being funny and misunderstood, that is, being ridiculous. To sum this up, too much
                unlearned flexibility in the business of translation is like turning yourself into a joke. Good luck with your
                "dyspozycyjny" translated into "dispatcher."
                • Gość: chickenShorts Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English?? IP: *.abo.wanadoo.fr 17.12.02, 11:51
                  Gość portalu: From Evanston napisał(a):

                  > You cannot be partially pregnant. You either translate a phrase/word
                  correctly
                  > or you don't. If you don't, or if you
                  > follow misleading tips, you risk both being funny and misunderstood, that is,
                  b
                  > eing ridiculous. To sum this up, too much
                  > unlearned flexibility in the business of translation is like turning yourself
                  i
                  > nto a joke. Good luck with your
                  > "dyspozycyjny" translated into "dispatcher."

                  Ha, never have I agreed to a "dispatcher" nor any other "translation tip"
                  here, sir, so attributing to me crap and wishing me good lack with it is... a
                  criminal offense!
                  Should it still matter to the translation, I would rather ask the poster, ja,
                  why the hell is he so attached to "dyspozycyjny" - is it the tittle of his work
                  position? Like 'zawiadowca'? Otherwise, the word sounds awkward, to say the
                  least.
                  Anyway, during my twelve years of being surrounded by everyday English, never
                  have I heard the adj.'disposable' accompany a person or what the person does, I
                  can assure you. Unless with an insult in mind. English 'disposable' is not the
                  same as French 'disponible'! Now, having said that, I allow for the use
                  of 'disposable' with particular meaning attached in technical jargon and such,
                  but I doubt it's applicable here.
                  As for pregnancies, I don't really know. Frankly, I can imagine partial
                  pregnancy; a phrase begining 'pregnant with meaning', for instance, would allow
                  partiality in certain sense of the word and you would be a perfect example of
                  this.
                  • Gość: Rev. Reverend Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English?? IP: *.nyc.rr.com 17.12.02, 12:15
                    This is getting way too complicated.
                    - Mary, are you pregnant?
                    - Just a little bit, not much.

                    Disposable like disposable camera or disposable razor.
                    In everyday english it means throw away camera or throw away razor.
                    Stick with flexible.

                    On the label it used to read "Discard after use". What the f... they want me
                    to do with it? Well, now it reads "Throw away after use". It helps to cut down
                    on expletives.
                    • Gość: chickenShorts Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English?? IP: *.abo.wanadoo.fr 17.12.02, 12:58
                      Gość portalu: Rev. Reverend napisał(a):

                      > This is getting way too complicated.
                      > - Mary, are you pregnant?
                      > - Just a little bit, not much.

                      I thought it went differenly... At least, according to Scriptures.

                      - Joseph, pleassse!... Joseph, stop it! I am pregnant!
                      - Mary!
                      - Oh, no, it's not what you think. It was God!

                      Rev, you are a crap Minister!


                      > Disposable like disposable camera or disposable razor.
                      > In everyday english it means throw away camera or throw away razor.
                      > Stick with flexible.
                      >
                      > On the label it used to read "Discard after use". What the f... they want me
                      > to do with it? Well, now it reads "Throw away after use". It helps to cut
                      down
                      > on expletives.

                      Don't cut down on expletives! This forum will die...
                  • Gość: From Evanston Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English?? IP: *.nuts.northwestern.edu 17.12.02, 12:54
                    Too much self-confidence usually borders on the grotesque. To make the readers of this forum believe how
                    competent you are linguistically you employ a worn-out strategy, namely, the argument ad verecundiam (from
                    authority) by saying "during my twelve years of being surrounded by everyday English ... I can assure you." Which is
                    intended to suggest that the longer you stay within an English-language environment, the more competent
                    language-wise you are. Wrong. I know many folks who you've been immersed in English for decades and they are still
                    (linguistically) waterproof. Perhaps that's your case. (Here's my argument ad hominem--yes, a personal attack.) Going
                    back do the issue: what I was trying to clarify in my first message was that the Polish adjective "dyspozycyjny" is
                    more complex than the suggested "available" (or "flexible" and the like) as its English equivalent. Why? Because the
                    former is, at least potentially, ethically offensive (in the Polish language of the PRL, the adjective "dyspozycyjny" meant
                    "gotowy sluzyc bezkrytycznie," which meant that if Mr. X was described officially as "dyspozycyjny" he was
                    unofficially called "dyspozycyjna szmata"). The English word "available" simply does not have this judgmental
                    component. It was in this context that I offered the adjective "disposable" (which is indeed offensive) to incorporate
                    into the translated word this ethical dimension of the Polish/PRL original. In short, some sort of cultural (and not
                    linguistic) translation was needed. On the other hand, if you strip the word "dyspozycyjny" of its PRL context, then
                    fine--you can translate it safely into the word "available" or "flexible," which occurs frequently within a business-like
                    environment. Having said that, I am now leaving for good, so you can now go on with making your readers believe
                    you're a William Safire of the Wyborcza forum.
                    • Gość: chickenShorts Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English?? IP: *.abo.wanadoo.fr 17.12.02, 13:16
                      Gość portalu: From Evanston napisał(a):

                      > Too much self-confidence usually borders on the grotesque. To make the
                      readers
                      > of this forum believe how
                      > competent you are linguistically you employ a worn-out strategy, namely, the
                      ar
                      > gument ad verecundiam (from
                      > authority) by saying "during my twelve years of being surrounded by everyday
                      En
                      > glish ... I can assure you." Which is
                      > intended to suggest that the longer you stay within an English-language
                      environ
                      > ment, the more competent
                      > language-wise you are.

                      Indeed! But you are wrong to suggest I needed any reader of this forum brain
                      washed to have him/her persuaded. It was merely addressed to and intended for
                      you. And it's not about me employing wright or wrong vocabulary. It's about you
                      and your ridiculous justification of 'disposable' in place of 'disponible'!


                      Wrong. I know many folks who you've been immersed in Eng
                      > lish for decades and they are still
                      > (linguistically) waterproof. Perhaps that's your case. (Here's my argument ad
                      h
                      > ominem--yes, a personal attack.) Going
                      > back do the issue: what I was trying to clarify in my first message was that
                      th
                      > e Polish adjective "dyspozycyjny" is
                      > more complex than the suggested "available" (or "flexible" and the like) as
                      its
                      > English equivalent. Why? Because the
                      > former is, at least potentially, ethically offensive (in the Polish language
                      of
                      > the PRL, the adjective "dyspozycyjny" meant
                      > "gotowy sluzyc bezkrytycznie," which meant that if Mr. X was described
                      official
                      > ly as "dyspozycyjny" he was
                      > unofficially called "dyspozycyjna szmata"). The English word "available"
                      simply
                      > does not have this judgmental
                      > component. It was in this context that I offered the adjective "disposable"
                      (wh
                      > ich is indeed offensive) to incorporate
                      > into the translated word this ethical dimension of the Polish/PRL original.
                      In
                      > short, some sort of cultural (and not
                      > linguistic) translation was needed. On the other hand, if you strip the
                      word "d
                      > yspozycyjny" of its PRL context,

                      For fuck's sake, man, you clearly have a problem!

                      then
                      > fine--you can translate it safely into the word "available" or "flexible,"
                      whic
                      > h occurs frequently within a business-like
                      > environment. Having said that, I am now leaving for good, so you can now go
                      on
                      > with making your readers believe
                      > you're a William Safire of the Wyborcza forum.

                      And you clearly aspire to 'C.Hitchens league'. He famously said
                      once that Stalin was a great man, then, when it wasn't safe any more defend
                      this stance without risking mental asylum, he tried Lenin... Now, I hear, he is
                      close to share a platform with... guess who?
            • Gość: epifit@wp.pl Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English?? IP: *.au.poznan.pl 06.01.03, 20:35
              hi, your letter regarding the "flexible" gig really impressed me. Just by
              chance I found this page "only in English" and by the way went thru all the e-
              mails. and guess what!? I (unfortunately) came to the conclusion that mostly
              silly (not to say stupid, moronic) people try themselves at these questions
              and only a small group actually know what's being talked about. anyhow all I
              wanted to say is that you did a really good job and I wanted to let you know
              that at least I appereciate it. so keep up the good work :)
              meg
          • Gość: Midwest Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English? IP: *.nuts.northwestern.edu 23.12.02, 10:16
            Gość portalu: chickenShorts napisał(a):
            > Oh, I agree! You don't write it and you can bet your last fiver that the
            > people who said 'thanks in advance' would be foreigners, but it is not
            > offensive...

            Foreigners? Wrong. Hey man, you yourself sound like a Polish-born foreigner. No, there's nothing foreign in saying
            "many thanks in advance." My wife, who is an Australianand a linguist by training, says the phrase does not reveal
            the non-Englishness of the speaker at all, whatsoever, as chickenShorts wants to suggests. From my own
            experience: over the last twelve years that I have spent in America (working in academia), I have seen this particular
            expression many times, especially in writing, and especially in semi-official documents produced by American
            native-speakers. So the Americans do use the phrase, so do the Australians; only chickenShorts advises otherwise.
            What's wrong with the guy? Given the neurotic frequency with which he appears on this forum, he needs some help.
            The recognition he seeks so agressively should be replaced by the recognition he strongly deserves from some
            doctors.
            • Gość: Bert thank you in advance IP: *.214.64.97.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net 24.12.02, 17:51
              The trouble is "thank you in advance" may mean more than
              just the polite and well-intended "thank you now for the
              future favor you will certainly deliver". The inadvertent
              ambiguity that might be conveyed to the oversensitive
              kind (is he advancing his cause? why is he so sure or
              presumptuous I am ready to oblige?) might be somewhat
              awkward and uncalled for. Actually, when you come to
              think about it, the anticipation of or the hope for a
              favor would prefer the humble "please" as more logical,
              wouldn’t you agree? Do you really want to thank someone
              before he deserves your appreciation? Why dish out the
              advance on gratitude?
              Whether this is the reason or not, the fact remains
              thanking someone in advance is not frequently heard, even
              in the Midwest.
              • Gość: Midwest Re: thank you in advance IP: *.nuts.northwestern.edu 24.12.02, 20:34
                Gość portalu: Bert napisał(a):

                > Whether this is the reason or not, the fact remains
                > thanking someone in advance is not frequently heard, even
                > in the Midwest.

                Good point. That's exactly what I wanted address but failed to be clear about: the phrase "many thanks in
                advance" appears primarily in writing. (I have not heard this phrase in spoken English.) Cheers,
                • Gość: Bert Re: thank you in advance IP: *.214.114.251.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net 25.12.02, 12:59
                  Well, that's not the point I was making. Let me put it in
                  a more direct way: Do not thank in advance either in
                  informal speech or in a formal paper. Period.
                  It is trite; it presumptuously assumes the favor or help
                  requested will be forthcoming; it implies that the writer
                  will not trouble to express appreciation after the favor
                  has been done.

                  Although most people who thank in advance are, most
                  likely, trying to be polite the phrase sounds bad enough
                  to be avoided. Why not say, "any help you can give me
                  will be appreciated" instead?
    • Gość: Bert disposal vs. disposition IP: *.214.64.97.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net 24.12.02, 18:11
      At the risk of being presumptuous I would say "disposal"
      is being confused with "disposition".
      The disposal means getting rid of, while disposition
      means natural tendency or temperament. Being at one's
      disposal is not the same as being at one's disposition.
      For example, the disposition of goods is excellent (they
      are excellently disposed, arranged, or the disposition of
      an employee is commendable), but the disposal of goods
      has to be taken care of because the goods are no good
      anymore.
    • Gość: Kagan Re: 'dyspozycyjny' in English?? IP: *.bhakleibnitz.asn-graz.ac.at 27.12.02, 05:21
      Gość portalu: ja napisał(a):
      How would you translate??
      Thanks in advance:))
      K: There are several ways to say "dyspozycyjny" in the language of
      Chaucer, Shakespeare and George Bush jr.
      1. I am always at my Boss' disposal.
      2. I am permanently at the Management service.
      3. Will do antyhing at any time for low wages.
      4. Just kick my ass, and I'll be ready for action, my Boss!
      5. I never sleep, never go to the loo, I am always ready and willing to
      receive your order, my Boss!
      6. I do not sleep, do not think, I am always at your service, oh my Boss!
      7. I have no personality, I am only an extention of my Boss.
      8. I consider it a great priviledge to serve the Company day and night
      for whatever the Management considers a fair wage.
      9. I am always on duty, more than 24 hours per callendar day.
      10. I am an ideal slave: I never question orders, and am always redy to perform
      whatever the Management wishes.
      etc.
      (For more examples please write to ljkel2@netscape.net)

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