"you and me" or "you and I" ?

IP: *.client.attbi.com 15.04.03, 02:56
Which one is correct? I would say the first one, because it's what I hear
most, but recently someone corrected me. Was the person right? I wouldn't be
suprised because Americans aren't too concerned when it comes to grammar.
    • Gość: salmotrutta Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: *.compass.net.nz 15.04.03, 12:05
      ...both forms are correct in the right context...since you don't precise the context I can't be more specific...
      • Gość: jagoda Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: *.client.attbi.com 15.04.03, 14:10
        I don't remember the context. Could you, please give me some examples of
        correct use of both forms? What's the rule? I learned english from everyday
        use, so I'm obviouslly not an expert (what you can tell, I'm sure).
    • tynski Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? 15.04.03, 14:56
      Gość portalu: jagoda napisał(a):

      > Which one is correct? I would say the first one,
      because it's what I hear
      > most, but recently someone corrected me. Was the person
      right?

      It's simpler than you think.
      "I" is used as a subject, "me" as an object.


      I wouldn't be
      > suprised because Americans aren't too concerned when it
      comes to grammar.

      Where did you get this idea? From those who "precise"
      what is to be exacted?
      • Gość: jagoda Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: *.client.attbi.com 15.04.03, 15:57
        tynski napisała:

        > It's simpler than you think.
        > "I" is used as a subject, "me" as an object.
        >
        Thank's, but I still don't know, what it means.
        >
        > I wouldn't be
        > > suprised because Americans aren't too concerned when it
        > comes to grammar.
        >
        > Where did you get this idea? From those who "precise"
        > what is to be exacted?
        I live in States since 2000, and it's based on my experience. Many of Americans
        don't even care about the simplest rules, some of them say "she don't" or "you
        is" for example.
        My brother-in-love has been livinig here for 12 years and speaks english very
        well. He has american wife and she says that his grammar is better than
        anyone's in her all american family.
        • butter_fly Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? 15.04.03, 16:44
          Gość portalu: jagoda napisał(a):
          > My brother-in-love has been...

          Jagoda, you can communicate and that's what matters I guess...


          (BTW; the only thing I envy you is that brother-in-love... Really, I'd love to
          have one too)
          • Gość: jagoda Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: *.client.attbi.com 15.04.03, 17:01
            butter_fly napisała:

            > Gość portalu: jagoda napisał(a):
            > > My brother-in-love has been...
            >
            > Jagoda, you can communicate and that's what matters I guess...
            >
            >
            > (BTW; the only thing I envy you is that brother-in-love... Really, I'd love
            to
            > have one too)

            :)))))))))
            I guess it's true that what's on somebody's mind it's on somebody's lips. I
            can't believe I made such a mistake. But thankfully my brother-in-law is not
            the man I was thinking about :)
          • Gość: awalk Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 15.04.03, 22:06
            butter_fly napisała:

            > Gość portalu: jagoda napisał(a):
            > > My brother-in-love has been...
            >
            > Jagoda, you can communicate and that's what matters I guess...
            >
            >
            > (BTW; the only thing I envy you is that brother-in-love... Really, I'd love to
            > have one too)

            "For those of you who want to condemn my efforts or question my reasoning in getting others to read the Bible,, I ask you... What have you done lately worth of praise? Me? Nothing really. But I certainly hope one of us does something better than debate things that interfere with getting positive things done today. Those around us depend on it.

            Your brother in love and spirit,
            Don Lemmon"

            It seems that brother in love is a religious expession. :)
            • butter_fly Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? 15.04.03, 23:59
              Gość portalu: awalk napisał(a):


              >...I ask you... What have you done lately worth of praise? Me? Nothing
              >really...

              > Your brother in love and spirit,

              Oh, my lovely brother in love and spirit...(whichever is more ...religious)

              Thanks awalk, now I can call it a day

        • kochanka Both are correct 15.04.03, 16:46
          Both are correct.
          In US you would see “me” in common conversations and I in a more formal
          setting.
        • kochanka Are you having sex with your brother??? :-) 15.04.03, 16:51
          Gość portalu: jagoda napisał(a):

          > tynski napisała:
          >
          > > It's simpler than you think.
          > > "I" is used as a subject, "me" as an object.
          > >
          > Thank's, but I still don't know, what it means.
          > >
          > > I wouldn't be
          > > > suprised because Americans aren't too concerned when it
          > > comes to grammar.
          > >
          > > Where did you get this idea? From those who "precise"
          > > what is to be exacted?
          > I live in States since 2000, and it's based on my experience. Many of
          Americans
          >
          > don't even care about the simplest rules, some of them say "she don't"
          or "you
          > is" for example.
          > My brother-in-love has been livinig here for 12 years and speaks english
          very
          > well.

          I think you were trying to say brother in law. But how can he be your brother
          in law since his wife is American and therefore not your sister. How is
          this “BROTHER-IN-LOVE related to you? Are you having sex with your brother?



          He has american wife and she says that his grammar is better than
          > anyone's in her all american family.
          • Gość: jagoda Re: Are you having sex with your brother??? :-) IP: *.client.attbi.com 15.04.03, 17:11
            kochanka napisała:

            > > My brother-in-love has been livinig here for 12 years and speaks english
            > very
            > > well.
            >
            > I think you were trying to say brother in law. But how can he be your brother
            > in law since his wife is American and therefore not your sister. How is
            > this “BROTHER-IN-LOVE related to you? Are you having sex with your brothe
            > r?
            >
            You're right, I wanted to say brother-in-law. I've been thinking about love too
            much lately, I guess :)
            Brother-in-law isn't just one's sister's husband. It's one's husband's brother
            as well, as it is in this case.
            But I like the expression brother-in-love :) I think I'll use it sometimes. But
            it would have different meaning, than the one you suggest. I understand it as
            someone who one makes love to.
            • kochanka Just having some fun:-) 15.04.03, 17:20
              Gość portalu: jagoda napisał(a):

              > kochanka napisała:
              >
              > > > My brother-in-love has been livinig here for 12 years and speaks engl
              > ish
              > > very
              > > > well.
              > >
              > > I think you were trying to say brother in law. But how can he be your brot
              > her
              > > in law since his wife is American and therefore not your sister. How is
              > > this “BROTHER-IN-LOVE related to you? Are you having sex with your b
              > rothe
              > > r?
              > >
              > You're right, I wanted to say brother-in-law. I've been thinking about love
              too
              >
              > much lately, I guess :)




              I know. I am just having some fun with it.
              Peace!




              > Brother-in-law isn't just one's sister's husband. It's one's husband's
              brother
              > as well, as it is in this case.
              > But I like the expression brother-in-love :) I think I'll use it sometimes.
              But
              >
              > it would have different meaning, than the one you suggest. I understand it
              as
              > someone who one makes love to.
              • Gość: jagoda Re: Just having some fun:-) IP: *.client.attbi.com 15.04.03, 17:28
                kochanka napisała:

                > > You're right, I wanted to say brother-in-law. I've been thinking about lov
                > e
                > too
                > >
                > > much lately, I guess :)
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I know. I am just having some fun with it.
                > Peace!
                >
                Me too. I think it's pretty funny.
                • kochanka PS 15.04.03, 17:31
                  Gość portalu: jagoda napisał(a):

                  > kochanka napisała:
                  >
                  > > > You're right, I wanted to say brother-in-law. I've been thinking abou
                  > t lov
                  > > e
                  > > too
                  > > >
                  > > > much lately, I guess :)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I know. I am just having some fun with it.
                  > > Peace!
                  > >
                  > Me too. I think it's pretty funny.

                  Sex with your brother in law could be a good thing. Think about it:-)No one
                  has to know but you and your brother in love.
                  • Gość: jagoda Re: PS IP: *.client.attbi.com 15.04.03, 17:36
                    kochanka napisała:

                    > Sex with your brother in law could be a good thing. Think about it:-)No one
                    > has to know but you and your brother in love.
                    >
                    >
                    Thank's, but I wasn't thinking about my brother-in-law, just about love in
                    general. The idea of sex with him isn't appealing to me. Not that there is
                    something wrong with him. He's just not my type.
                    But I think about that anyways. That brother-in-love thing is too good to just
                    let it go ;)
    • tynski Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? 15.04.03, 18:06
      As you said, someone corrected you; the someone must have
      cared, don't you think?
      Those who know the "rules" care, no matter how formal or
      informal the setting is.
      Some people will think twice before correcting you just
      to spare you the embarrassment.
      Things like "you is..." are unacceptable.


      Would you say "me am a girl"? Or would you say "give I
      that"? No, you wouldn't, would you?

      How about "You and me will go"? Or should it be "You and
      I will go"?
      To settle the issue, split the sentence into two:
      "You will go" and "I will go". Now combine the two into one:
      "You and I will go".

      Another example:
      "He gave it to you and I/me"
      Make the split:
      "He gave it to you" sounds good.
      "He gave it to I" sounds terrible. Trust your ear.
      "He gave it to me" is much better, right?
      So "He gave it to you and me" is OK.

      Recognizing the subject and object in a sentence helps -
      even those hard of hearing will do fine.

      • Gość: jagoda Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: *.client.attbi.com 15.04.03, 19:19
        tynski napisała:

        > As you said, someone corrected you; the someone must have
        > cared, don't you think?
        > Those who know the "rules" care, no matter how formal or
        > informal the setting is.
        > Some people will think twice before correcting you just
        > to spare you the embarrassment.
        > Things like "you is..." are unacceptable.
        >
        The person who corrected me was Polish ;) He cared, but wasn't right, since he
        said that only "you and I" form is correct in every context.
        I don't understand why the subject of Americans not caring about grammar
        bothers you so much. I never said that all of them don't care, but believe me,
        there's many. And if you learn mainly by listening to them it's sometimes hard
        to tell which is right.
        I didn't make that "you is" thing up, I swear.
        >
        > Would you say "me am a girl"? Or would you say "give I
        > that"? No, you wouldn't, would you?
        >
        > How about "You and me will go"? Or should it be "You and
        > I will go"?
        > To settle the issue, split the sentence into two:
        > "You will go" and "I will go". Now combine the two into one:
        > "You and I will go".
        >
        > Another example:
        > "He gave it to you and I/me"
        > Make the split:
        > "He gave it to you" sounds good.
        > "He gave it to I" sounds terrible. Trust your ear.
        > "He gave it to me" is much better, right?
        > So "He gave it to you and me" is OK.
        >
        > Recognizing the subject and object in a sentence helps -
        > even those hard of hearing will do fine.
        >
        Thank's a lot. But your last sentence was unnecessary ;) You couldn't help it,
        could you? :)
        • kochanka Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? 15.04.03, 19:49
          Gość portalu: jagoda napisał(a):

          > tynski napisała:
          >
          > > As you said, someone corrected you; the someone must have
          > > cared, don't you think?
          > > Those who know the "rules" care, no matter how formal or
          > > informal the setting is.
          > > Some people will think twice before correcting you just
          > > to spare you the embarrassment.
          > > Things like "you is..." are unacceptable.
          > >
          > The person who corrected me was Polish ;) He cared, but wasn't right, since
          he
          > said that only "you and I" form is correct in every context.
          > I don't understand why the subject of Americans not caring about grammar
          > bothers you so much. I never said that all of them don't care, but believe
          me,
          > there's many. And if you learn mainly by listening to them it's sometimes
          hard
          > to tell which is right.
          > I didn't make that "you is" thing up, I swear.
          > >
          > > Would you say "me am a girl"? Or would you say "give I
          > > that"? No, you wouldn't, would you?
          > >
          > > How about "You and me will go"? Or should it be "You and
          > > I will go"?
          > > To settle the issue, split the sentence into two:
          > > "You will go" and "I will go". Now combine the two into one:
          > > "You and I will go".
          > >
          > > Another example:
          > > "He gave it to you and I/me"
          > > Make the split:
          > > "He gave it to you" sounds good.
          > > "He gave it to I" sounds terrible. Trust your ear.
          > > "He gave it to me" is much better, right?
          > > So "He gave it to you and me" is OK.
          > >
          > > Recognizing the subject and object in a sentence helps -
          > > even those hard of hearing will do fine.
          > >
          > Thank's a lot. But your last sentence was unnecessary ;) You couldn't help
          it,
          > could you? :)


          Especially since “He gave it to you and I” is also correct. You can split your
          sentences for ever but you will not change the fact that “He gave it to you
          and I” is also correct and even more English than American. I am not an
          expert of English grammar but 35 years of experience and 12 years of education
          in English schools tells me that both ways are a ok.
          • Gość: awalk Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 15.04.03, 21:08
            kochanka napisała:

            )
            ) Especially since ?He gave it to you and I? is also correct. You can
            ) split your
            ) sentences for ever but you will not change the fact that ?He gave it to you
            ) and I? is also correct and even more English than American. I am not an
            ) expert of English grammar but 35 years of experience and 12 years of education
            ) in English schools tells me that both ways are a ok.

            There is nothing to argue about. You all are right.

            According to formal English that is taught at schools expressions like 'I says', 'you is' etc aren't correct.

            According to informal English that is used by most native speakers these expressions are acceptable in every day use and they use them. Informal English quite often breaks formal English rules.

            There is also pidgin English widely used by non-native speakers of English that doesn't observe of formal English. Pidgin English always break formal English rules.

            Below you will find a funny article concerning the subject in question. But first let me quote:

            '"There is no official English language," said Jesse Sheidlower, the North American editor of the Oxford English Dictionary. "Language is spread not because not anyone dictates any one thing to happen. The decisions are made by the language and the people who use the language."'

            Such an opinion is also expressed in the preface to my Webster's Dictionary.

            And now the article:

            Nu Shortcuts in School R 2 Much 4 Teachers

            September 19, 2002
            Nu Shortcuts in School R 2 Much 4 Teachers
            By JENNIFER 8. LEE

            Jacqueline Harding prepares a classroom presentation on the common writing mistakes she sees in her students' work. Ms. Harding, an eighth-grade English teacher at Viking Middle School in Guernee, Ill., scribbles the words that have plagued generations of schoolchildren across her whiteboard:
            There. Their. They're.
            Your. You're.
            To. Too. Two.
            Its. It's.
            This September, she has added a new list: u, r, ur, b4, wuz, cuz, 2. When she asked her students how many of them used shortcuts like these in their writing, Ms. Harding said, she was not surprised when most of them raised their hands. This, after all, is their online lingua franca: English adapted for the spitfire conversational style of Internet instant messaging.
            Ms. Harding, who has seen such shortcuts creep into student papers over the last two years, said she gave her students a warning: "If I see this in your assignments, I will take points off." "Kids should know the difference," said Ms. Harding, who decided to address this issue head-on this year. "They should know where to draw the line between formal writing and conversational writing."
            As more and more teenagers socialize online, middle school and high school teachers like Ms. Harding are increasingly seeing a breezy form of Internet English jump from e-mail into schoolwork. To their dismay, teachers say that papers are being written with shortened words, improper capitalization and punctuation, and characters like &, $ and @. Teachers have deducted points, drawn red circles and tsk-tsked at their classes. Yet the errant forms continue. "It stops being funny after you repeat yourself a couple of times," Ms. Harding said.
            But teenagers, whose social life can rely as much these days on text communication as the spoken word, say that they use instant-messaging shorthand without thinking about it. They write to one another as much as they write in school, or more.
            "You are so used to abbreviating things, you just start doing it unconsciously on schoolwork and reports and other things," said Eve Brecker, 15, a student at Montclair High School in New Jersey. Ms. Brecker once handed in a midterm exam riddled with instant-messaging shorthand. "I had an hour to write an essay on Romeo and Juliet," she said. "I just wanted to finish before my time was up. I was writing fast and carelessly. I spelled `you' `u.' " She got a C.
            Even terms that cannot be expressed verbally are making their way into papers. Melanie Weaver was stunned by some of the term papers she received from a 10th-grade class she recently taught as part of an internship. "They would be trying to make a point in a paper, they would put a smiley face in the end," said Ms. Weaver, who teaches at Alvernia College in Reading, Pa. "If they were presenting an argument and they needed to present an opposite view, they would put a frown."
            As Trisha Fogarty, a sixth-grade teacher at Houlton Southside School in Houlton, Maine, puts it, today's students are "Generation Text." Almost 60 percent of the online population under age 17 uses instant messaging, according to Nielsen / NetRatings. In addition to cellphone text messaging, Weblogs and e-mail, it has become a popular means of flirting, setting up dates, asking for help with homework and keeping in contact with distant friends. The abbreviations are a natural outgrowth of this rapid-fire style of communication.
            "They have a social life that centers around typed communication," said Judith S. Donath, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Media Lab who has studied electronic communication. "They have a writing style that has been nurtured in a teenage social milieu." Some teachers see the creeping abbreviations as part of a continuing assault of technology on formal written English. Others take it more lightly, saying that it is just part of the larger arc of language evolution.
            "To them it's not wrong," said Ms. Harding, who is 28. "It's acceptable because it's in their culture. It's hard enough to teach them the art of formal writing. Now we've got to overcome this new instant-messaging language." Ms. Harding noted that in some cases the shorthand isn't even shorter. "I understand `cuz,' but what's with the `wuz'? It's the same amount of letters as `was,' so what's the point?" she said.
            Deborah Bova, who teaches eighth-grade English at Raymond Park Middle School in Indianapolis, thought her eyesight was failing several years ago when she saw the sentence "B4 we perform, ppl have 2 practice" on a student assignment. "I thought, `My God, what is this?' " Ms. Bova said. "Have they lost their minds?" The student was summoned to the board to translate the sentence into standard English: "Before we perform, people have to practice." She realized that the students thought she was out of touch. "It was like `Get with it, Bova,' " she said. Ms. Bova had a student type up a reference list of translations for common instant-messaging expressions. She posted a copy on the bulletin board by her desk and took another one home to use while grading. Students are sometimes unrepentant.
            "They were astonished when I began to point these things out to them," said Henry Assetto, a social studies teacher at Twin Valley High School in Elverson, Pa. "Because I am a history teacher, they did not think a history teacher would be checking up on their grammar or their spelling," said Mr. Assetto, who has been teaching for 34 years.
            But Montana Hodgen, 16, another Montclair student, said she was so accustomed to instant-messaging abbreviations that she often read right past them. She proofread a paper last year only to get it returned with the messaging abbreviations circled in red. "I was so used to reading what my friends wrote to me on Instant Messenger that I didn't even realize that there was something wrong," she said. She said her ability to separate formal and informal English declined the more she used instant messages. "Three years ago, if I had seen that, I would have been `What is that?' "
            The spelling checker doesn't always help either, students say. For one, Microsoft Word's squiggly red spell-check lines don't appear beneath single letters and numbers such as u, r, c, 2 and 4. Nor do they catch words which have numbers in them such as "l8r" and "b4" by default. Teenagers have essentially developed an unconscious "accent" in their typing, Professor Donath said. "They have gotten
            • Gość: awalk Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 15.04.03, 21:13
              "They have gotten facile at typing and they are not paying attention."
              Teenagers have long pushed the boundaries of spoken language, introducing words that then become passé with adult adoption. Now teenagers are taking charge and pushing the boundaries of written language. For them, expressions like "oic" (oh I see), "nm" (not much), "jk" (just kidding) and "lol" (laughing out loud), "brb" (be right back), "ttyl" (talk to you later) are as standard as conventional English.
              "There is no official English language," said Jesse Sheidlower, the North American editor of the Oxford English Dictionary. "Language is spread not because not anyone dictates any one thing to happen. The decisions are made by the language and the people who use the language."
              Some teachers find the new writing style alarming. "First of all, it's very rude, and it's very careless," said Lois Moran, a middle school English teacher at St. Nicholas School in Jersey City. "They should be careful to write properly and not to put these little codes in that they are in such a habit of writing to each other," said Ms. Moran, who has lectured her eighth-grade class on such mistakes. Others say that the instant-messaging style might simply be a fad, something that students will grow out of. Or they see it as an opportunity to teach students about the evolution of language.
              "I turn it into a very positive teachable moment for kids in the class," said Erika V. Karres, an assistant professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill who trains student teachers. She shows students how English has evolved since Shakespeare's time. "Imagine Langston Hughes's writing in quick texting instead of `Langston writing,' " she said. "It makes teaching and learning so exciting."
              Other teachers encourage students to use messaging shorthand to spark their thinking processes. "When my children are writing first drafts, I don't care how they spell anything, as long as they are writing," said Ms. Fogarty, the sixth-grade teacher from Houlton, Maine. "If this lingo gets their thoughts and ideas onto paper quicker, the more power to them." But during editing and revising, she expects her students to switch to standard English.
              Ms. Bova shares the view that instant-messaging language can help free up their creativity. With the help of students, she does not even need the cheat sheet to read the shorthand anymore. "I think it's a plus," she said. "And I would say that with a + sign."

              I hope you like it. :)
          • zegar4 Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? 18.04.03, 03:42

            > Especially since “He gave it to you and I” is also
            correct. You can
            > split your
            > sentences for ever but you will not change the fact
            that “He gave it to y
            > ou
            > and I” is also correct and even more English than
            American. I am not an
            > expert of English grammar but 35 years of experience
            and 12 years of education
            > in English schools tells me that both ways are a ok.
            >
            >

            The twelve years explains everything. Too much learnin',
            too little earnin' kind of thing?

            Rest assured, grammar is not antisemitic.

            Tinski gave you a good simple rule, you are in denial.

            Snippets from Uof Victoria Writer’s Guide:
            (no ESL handout, it's intended for native speakers)

            "Getting the agreements right ought, in theory, to be
            relatively easy for native speakers, since their
            instincts constitute grammar (meaning 1). Perhaps if
            those with a professional interest in correct grammar let
            things evolve naturally, we would have no difficulties in
            this respect. But our language instincts do produce some
            apparent anomalies. For example, all children, left to
            their own devices, will say

            14a Me and Darby went to the store,

            though none but an infant or Tarzan would say

            14b Me went to the store.

            So we are taught, from a tender age, that "me and Darby"
            is egocentric and ungrammatical. Unfortunately people who
            have been taught to say

            14c Darby and I went to the store

            are likely to say, when they grow up,

            15a It occurred to Darby and I that going to the store
            was a poor idea,

            though they would never say

            15b It occurred to I that going to the store was a poor idea.

            In short, agreement is a muddling sort of business
            however we go at it. The only way to get it right
            consistently is to learn how to analyse the structures of
            your speech, which is to say, how you put sentences
            together."

            Snip-----------

            "If the subject is a pronoun that distinguishes cases,
            the subjective case form must be chosen. Thus, though we say

            16a Give the hat to whomever,

            we also say,

            16b Give the hat to whoever owns it,

            not

            16c Give the hat to whomever owns it,

            for in the first example whomever is the object of the
            preposition to, while in the second example whoever is
            the subject of the predicate owns and the entire clause
            "whoever owns it" is the object of the preposition to.
            We noted that a predicate consists of a verb together
            with whatever adverbial modifiers and completions go with
            it. When the verb designates no real action, the
            complement may function simply to complete the subject by
            providing new information about it. These subjective
            completions comprise predicate adjectives and predicate
            nouns as in the following examples.

            17a Justin is studious
            17b Justin looks studious
            17c Justin is a student

            As long as we are not dealing with pronouns, such
            constructions are quite simple. The trouble with pronoun
            subjective completions is that, although we understand
            that they should logically be in the subject case, the
            instincts of word order incline us to prefer objective
            case forms, which is why you have to be taught not to write

            18 It's me

            snip--------------
    • Gość: Justyna Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: *.swic.dialup.inetia.pl 15.04.03, 21:17
      I study english faculty and I can tell you for sure that "you and I" is
      correct as far as rules and grammar tests are concerned. Spoken and colloquial
      language is a different thing......
      • Gość: salmotrutta Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: 210.48.93.* 17.04.03, 03:05
        ...and how can you be sure?...
        • Gość: Justyna Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? IP: *.swic.dialup.inetia.pl 17.04.03, 21:38
          Simply I can. This is what grammar books say.
          • zegar4 Re: 'you and me' or 'you and I' ? 18.04.03, 03:26
            Gość portalu: Justyna napisał(a):

            > Simply I can. This is what grammar books say.


            That's a sophomoronic comment. You didn't say when and
            why. If you really study, study harder and not only the
            "take-it-easy ilk" of Burchfields or other liberal
            linguist-terrorists.

            I quote, just to stir up your interest in the subject:

            "When a verb or preposition governs two pronouns united
            by and, &c., the second is apt to go wrong—a bad blunder.
            Between you and I is often heard in talk; and, in literature:

            "And now, my dear, let you and I say a few words about
            this unfortunate affair. —Trollope.

            "It is kept locked up in a marble casket, quite out of
            reach of you or I. —S. Ferrier.

            "She found everyone's attention directed to Mary, and she
            herself entirely overlooked.—S. Ferrier."

            Can you recognize the author of the critique? If you
            cannot, you don't study; you are an ESLer striving to get
            by.
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