why does my English boss speak like that....

IP: *.lev.fr.power.alstom.com / 10.22.34.* 03.06.03, 09:49
He says:

It don't matter !!!


Why don't and not doesn't

He is English for heaven's sake.

Or maybe something has changed in the meantime
    • Gość: awalk Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 03.06.03, 10:55
      Gość portalu: Adam napisał(a):

      > He says:
      >
      > It don't matter !!!
      >
      >
      > Why don't and not doesn't
      >
      > He is English for heaven's sake.
      >
      > Or maybe something has changed in the meantime

      Nothing has changed. You've learnt the formal English at school and he uses the informal one. Now you need to learn a bit more, that's all. :)
      • Gość: az Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.acn.pl 03.06.03, 11:03
        exactly!
      • Gość: guest Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.ipt.aol.com 04.06.03, 08:25
        Gość portalu: awalk napisał(a):
        > Gość portalu: Adam napisał(a):
        > > He says:
        > > It don't matter !!!
        > > Why don't and not doesn't
        > > He is English for heaven's sake.
        > > Or maybe something has changed in the meantime
        >
        > Nothing has changed. You've learnt the formal English at school and he uses
        the
        > informal one. Now you need to learn a bit more, that's all. :)

        Of course there are different levels of formality and informal English can be
        very different from the stuff you learn at school, but that doesn't mean that
        you can say anything and claim it's just informal. This particular
        construction, "it don't matter", is not part of informal _standard_ English. It
        is used in many dialects but not in standard English, which is to say that the
        teacher sounds, well, uneducated. He may be using it for stylistic effects, of
        course, but we wouldn't know that from the short description.
        • Gość: guest Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.ipt.aol.com 04.06.03, 08:27
          oops, I meant "the boss" and not "the teacher", of course.
        • Gość: awalk Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 04.06.03, 10:43
          Gość portalu: guest napisał(a):

          > Of course there are different levels of formality and informal English can be
          > very different from the stuff you learn at school, but that doesn't mean that
          > you can say anything and claim it's just informal. This particular
          > construction, "it don't matter", is not part of informal _standard_ English. It
          > is used in many dialects but not in standard English, which is to say that the
          > boss sounds, well, uneducated. He may be using it for stylistic effects, of
          > course, but we wouldn't know that from the short description.

          Dear guest you've started a very interesting topic here. I agree that we can't say just anything and say it is just informal but I am afraid I don't share the rest of your opinion. First of all there is nothing like standard informal English in existence. Usually 'formal' and 'standard' are exchangable in this context. Informal, casual, non-standard, dialect, slang etc. describe the other part. In addition many Linquists say that there is no such a thing as a standard English. To support my view let me quote a few excerpts from the preface to my Webster's dictionary:

          "The existence of variety in language calls forth various responses
          from those who confront it, Those who fear differences defend their
          language against contamination, Those who are angered by differences
          attack what they see as competition. Those who admire
          the difference imitate them. In contrast to these insecure responses,
          those with curiosity study the differences....

          The way to good English is not to follow prescriptions and
          proscriptions, but to increase one's range.
          To say that variety is a good is not to deny that other sorts of
          value exist as well. Two hundred years ago, "standard" English
          was defined as that which is current (neither old-fashioned nor
          faddishly new), widespread (not limited to a particular locale or
          group), and respected (or generally accepted. That is still a good
          definition,
          Today many students of language hesitate to talk about "correct-
          ness," not because they have no standards, but because the term
          correct implies an absolute standard by which language can be
          judged?a celestial yardstick for determining whether speech and
          writing measure up to an ideal, Correct is also a word like perfect
          that many people think cannot be compared and for which there
          are no degrees; a thing, they say, is either correct or incorrect
          there is no half way.
          An absolutist approach to language is procrustean in its theory
          and consequences. Procrustes was an obsessively neat host in an-
          cient Greece. He liked his guests to fit his beds, and if guests were
          too short for a bed. Procrustes would stretch them until they fit,
          and if they were too long, he would lop off enough of their legs to
          make them even. The danger in talking about correct language is
          thinking of it procrusteanly.
          Instead of correct, those who study usage today often prefer the
          term acceptable....

          Good English is that which is acceptable to the participants in
          any exchange of speech or writing. What makes good English good
          is that it passes current, it is not out of place, it is acceptable."

          So it seems from the above the world 'acceptable' and not 'correct' is the key here. And let me tell you this, from many discussions with my American friends the bottom line is if the message is clear. According to them if the message is clear then it is acceptable. According to it "it don't matter" is quite clear thus acceptable. I guess I belong to those who "with curiosity study the differences". How about you? :)
          • tynski Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... 04.06.03, 13:38
            Gość portalu: awalk napisał(a):

            >
            > So it seems from the above the world 'acceptable' and
            not 'correct' is the key
            > here.

            Let me put it as gently and succinctly as I can:
            Sir, you are unacceptably nuts.
            • Gość: awalk Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 04.06.03, 15:04
              tynski napisała:

              > Let me put it as gently and succinctly as I can:
              > Sir, you are unacceptably nuts.

              You are a pathetic figure tynski and you are repeating yourself. How about being constructive for a change? Is it really beyond your reach? On the other hand perhaps you are right, I'm nuts because I am talking to you but then like they say: every living thing has its place in the great circle of life, so do you. What a pity!
          • Gość: guest Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.ipt.aol.com 06.06.03, 08:32
            Gość portalu: awalk napisał(a):
            > First of all there is nothing like standard informal Eng
            > lish in existence.

            Yes, there is. In fact, there is a great range of styles within standard
            English, at all levels of the language: vocabulary, syntax, pronunciation, etc.
            Casual or informal should by no means be equated with non-standard. You can
            be “pissed off” or you can be “exasperated”, you can say "I am going to tell
            her" or "I'm gonna tell'er"--this is just morphophonemic condensation
            characteristic of fast or casual speech. This is all standard English. Yes, "I
            wanna go there" and "I'm gonna do it" is standard English--casual? yes, but
            still standard. The following, however, is NOT standard English: "It don't
            matter", not even casual standard English. As I said, it is used in some
            dialects, but not in this particular one. By the way, those other dialects are
            called "non-standard" and not "sub-standard".

            This brings us to your next point:
            > In addition many Linquists say that there is no such a thing as a standard E
            > nglish.

            Well, would you care to name a few? It is true that standard English, as
            opposed to many other dialects, is rather uninteresting for linguists as an
            object of study, for reasons I won't go into right now, but that's not the
            point here. And it's not that hard to define it: it is simply the set of
            linguistic norms shared by people who are educated. Yes, everybody has their
            quirks, but the core is surprisingly consistent, and educated English speakers
            do not normally say "It don't matter", unless they are doing it for a
            particular effect.

            There is nothing in your long quote that contradicts what I have said. I never
            used the word "correctness" and I never said that something is bad and should
            not be used. All I'm saying is that this particular feature is not part of
            standard English. So what's my point?, you might ask. Well, my comment and
            advice for the guy who started the thread is that this construction is used in
            some dialects of English and you can go ahead and use it too if you like, but
            you should be aware of the consequences. It's not that there'll be a breakdown
            in communication of course but there is a price to pay and it is social in
            nature: if you speak like this, you will be perceived as a person who lacks in
            education. Mind you, some people will like you and you may be popular in some
            circles. You’ll sound just like one of the boys, like a real man, and not like
            a sissy “proper” English speaker. I’m afraid, though, that you may have
            difficulty getting some jobs and that most people may not be so understanding:-
            ).

            > I guess I belong to those who "with curiosity study the differ
            > ences". How about you? :)

            So do I, and they even pay me for it:-).
            • Gość: awalk Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 09.06.03, 11:55
              Gość portalu: guest napisał(a):

              ) Gość portalu: awalk napisał(a):
              ) ) First of all there is nothing like standard informal Eng
              ) ) lish in existence.
              )
              ) Yes, there is. In fact, there is a great range of styles within standard
              ) English, at all levels of the language: vocabulary, syntax, pronunciation, etc.
              )
              ) Casual or informal should by no means be equated with non-standard. You can
              ) be ?pissed off? or you can be ?exasperated?, you can sa
              ) y "I am going to tell
              ) her" or "I'm gonna tell'er"--this is just morphophonemic condensation
              ) characteristic of fast or casual speech. This is all standard English. Yes, "I
              ) wanna go there" and "I'm gonna do it" is standard English--casual? yes, but
              ) still standard. The following, however, is NOT standard English: "It don't
              ) matter", not even casual standard English. As I said, it is used in some
              ) dialects, but not in this particular one. By the way, those other dialects are
              ) called "non-standard" and not "sub-standard".

              I guess my understanding of the word standard is a bit different then yours. For me standard or formal is what you are taught at schools. For example 'gonna' is usually not taught there, however it is perfectly correct casual pronunciation of 'going to form'. For me it is not standard because it is usually not taught at schools however very widely used in everyday language.
              )
              ) This brings us to your next point:
              ) ) In addition many Linquists say that there is no such a thing as a standard
              ) E
              ) ) nglish.
              )
              ) Well, would you care to name a few?

              This is not a fair question because I usually don't remember such details but by a sheer coincidence I can name one.

              "There is no official English language," said Jesse Sheidlower, the North American editor of the Oxford English Dictionary. "Language is spread not because not anyone dictates any one thing to happen. The decisions are made by the language and the people who use the language."


              It is true that standard English, as
              ) opposed to many other dialects, is rather uninteresting for linguists as an
              ) object of study, for reasons I won't go into right now, but that's not the
              ) point here. And it's not that hard to define it: it is simply the set of
              ) linguistic norms shared by people who are educated. Yes, everybody has their
              ) quirks, but the core is surprisingly consistent, and educated English speakers
              ) do not normally say "It don't matter", unless they are doing it for a
              ) particular effect.
              )
              ) There is nothing in your long quote that contradicts what I have said. I never
              ) used the word "correctness" and I never said that something is bad and should
              ) not be used. All I'm saying is that this particular feature is not part of
              ) standard English. So what's my point?, you might ask. Well, my comment and
              ) advice for the guy who started the thread is that this construction is used in
              ) some dialects of English and you can go ahead and use it too if you like, but
              ) you should be aware of the consequences. It's not that there'll be a breakdown
              ) in communication of course but there is a price to pay and it is social in
              ) nature: if you speak like this, you will be perceived as a person who lacks in
              ) education. Mind you, some people will like you and you may be popular in some
              ) circles. You?ll sound just like one of the boys, like a real man, and not
              ) like
              ) a sissy ?proper? English speaker. I?m afraid, though, that yo
              ) u may have
              ) difficulty getting some jobs and that most people may not be so understanding:-
              ) ).

              I agree but you must remember that it is only a matter of using of informal English in the appropriate situations. Then you don't run the risk of being misjudged. Therefore I can agree it is not a good idea for the non-natives to use 'it don't matter' expression but it is quite acceptable for the natives on the condition they do it in the right situation. And they do, I've heard it used many times but of course in informal circumstances. Finally, I don't think his boss uses it because he is uneducated and doesn't know the correct expression. I am sure he uses it for one of the reasons that we use the casual language.
              )
              ) ) I guess I belong to those who "with curiosity study the differ
              ) ) ences". How about you? :)
              )
              ) So do I, and they even pay me for it:-).

              That means you are a proffesional. I'm not. :)

              Below you'll find the article I took the quote from.

              enjoy

              September 19, 2002
              Nu Shortcuts in School R 2 Much 4 Teachers
              By JENNIFER 8. LEE


              ACH September Jacqueline Harding prepares a classroom presentation on the
              common writing mistakes she sees in her students' work.
              Ms. Harding, an eighth-grade English teacher at Viking Middle School in
              Guernee, Ill., scribbles the words that have plagued generations of
              schoolchildren across her whiteboard:
              There. Their. They're.
              Your. You're.
              To. Too. Two.
              Its. It's.
              This September, she has added a new list: u, r, ur, b4, wuz, cuz, 2.
              When she asked her students how many of them used shortcuts like these in
              their writing, Ms. Harding said, she was not surprised when most of them
              raised their hands. This, after all, is their online lingua franca:
              English adapted for the spitfire conversational style of Internet instant
              messaging.
              Ms. Harding, who has seen such shortcuts creep into student papers over
              the last two years, said she gave her students a warning: "If I see this
              in your assignments, I will take points off."
              "Kids should know the difference," said Ms. Harding, who decided to
              address this issue head-on this year. "They should know where to draw the
              line between formal writing and conversational writing."
              As more and more teenagers socialize online, middle school and high school
              teachers like Ms. Harding are increasingly seeing a breezy form of
              Internet English jump from e-mail into schoolwork. To their dismay,
              teachers say that papers are being written with shortened words, improper
              capitalization and punctuation, and characters like &, $ and @.
              Teachers have deducted points, drawn red circles and tsk-tsked at their
              classes. Yet the errant forms continue. "It stops being funny after you
              repeat yourself a couple of times," Ms. Harding said.
              But teenagers, whose social life can rely as much these days on text
              communication as the spoken word, say that they use instant-messaging
              shorthand without thinking about it. They write to one another as much as
              they write in school, or more.
              "You are so used to abbreviating things, you just start doing it
              unconsciously on schoolwork and reports and other things," said Eve
              Brecker, 15, a student at Montclair High School in New Jersey.
              Ms. Brecker once handed in a midterm exam riddled with instant-messaging
              shorthand. "I had an hour to write an essay on Romeo and Juliet," she
              said. "I just wanted to finish before my time was up. I was writing fast
              and carelessly. I spelled `you' `u.' " She got a C.
              Even terms that cannot be expressed verbally are making their way into
              papers. Melanie Weaver was stunned by some of the term papers she received
              from a 10th-grade class she recently taught as part of an internship.
              "They would be trying to make a point in a paper, they would put a smiley
              face in the end," said Ms. Weaver, who teaches at Alvernia College in
              Reading, Pa. "If they were presenting an argument and they needed to
              present an opposite view, they would put a frown."
              As Trisha Fogarty, a sixth-grade teacher at Houlton Southside School in
              Houlton, Maine, puts it, today's students are "Generation Text."
              Almost 60 percent o
    • kingfish Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... 03.06.03, 14:26
      It is type of a slang but I wouldn’t subscribe to it, especially at work. To
      me a person, in work environment, saying “It don’t matter" sounds stupid.
      • Gość: wacko jacko Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.nyc.rr.com 04.06.03, 05:20
        Does you really think so?
        • Gość: Adam Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.lev.fr.power.alstom.com / 10.22.34.* 04.06.03, 14:15
          Jacko Wacko,

          I got your joke !!!
          • Gość: Kan Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.mega.tmns.net.au 07.06.03, 12:20
            Do you remember a song written by The Beatles; The Ticket to Ride

            ....She's got the ticket to ride and she don't care.

            Your boss don't care.

            Luv
            Skippy from down under
Inne wątki na temat:
Pełna wersja