Gość: Adam IP: *.lev.fr.power.alstom.com / 10.22.34.* 03.06.03, 09:49 He says: It don't matter !!! Why don't and not doesn't He is English for heaven's sake. Or maybe something has changed in the meantime Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś czytaj wygodnie posty
Gość: awalk Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 03.06.03, 10:55 Gość portalu: Adam napisał(a): > He says: > > It don't matter !!! > > > Why don't and not doesn't > > He is English for heaven's sake. > > Or maybe something has changed in the meantime Nothing has changed. You've learnt the formal English at school and he uses the informal one. Now you need to learn a bit more, that's all. :) Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
Gość: az Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.acn.pl 03.06.03, 11:03 exactly! Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
Gość: guest Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.ipt.aol.com 04.06.03, 08:25 Gość portalu: awalk napisał(a): > Gość portalu: Adam napisał(a): > > He says: > > It don't matter !!! > > Why don't and not doesn't > > He is English for heaven's sake. > > Or maybe something has changed in the meantime > > Nothing has changed. You've learnt the formal English at school and he uses the > informal one. Now you need to learn a bit more, that's all. :) Of course there are different levels of formality and informal English can be very different from the stuff you learn at school, but that doesn't mean that you can say anything and claim it's just informal. This particular construction, "it don't matter", is not part of informal _standard_ English. It is used in many dialects but not in standard English, which is to say that the teacher sounds, well, uneducated. He may be using it for stylistic effects, of course, but we wouldn't know that from the short description. Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
Gość: guest Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.ipt.aol.com 04.06.03, 08:27 oops, I meant "the boss" and not "the teacher", of course. Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
Gość: awalk Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 04.06.03, 10:43 Gość portalu: guest napisał(a): > Of course there are different levels of formality and informal English can be > very different from the stuff you learn at school, but that doesn't mean that > you can say anything and claim it's just informal. This particular > construction, "it don't matter", is not part of informal _standard_ English. It > is used in many dialects but not in standard English, which is to say that the > boss sounds, well, uneducated. He may be using it for stylistic effects, of > course, but we wouldn't know that from the short description. Dear guest you've started a very interesting topic here. I agree that we can't say just anything and say it is just informal but I am afraid I don't share the rest of your opinion. First of all there is nothing like standard informal English in existence. Usually 'formal' and 'standard' are exchangable in this context. Informal, casual, non-standard, dialect, slang etc. describe the other part. In addition many Linquists say that there is no such a thing as a standard English. To support my view let me quote a few excerpts from the preface to my Webster's dictionary: "The existence of variety in language calls forth various responses from those who confront it, Those who fear differences defend their language against contamination, Those who are angered by differences attack what they see as competition. Those who admire the difference imitate them. In contrast to these insecure responses, those with curiosity study the differences.... The way to good English is not to follow prescriptions and proscriptions, but to increase one's range. To say that variety is a good is not to deny that other sorts of value exist as well. Two hundred years ago, "standard" English was defined as that which is current (neither old-fashioned nor faddishly new), widespread (not limited to a particular locale or group), and respected (or generally accepted. That is still a good definition, Today many students of language hesitate to talk about "correct- ness," not because they have no standards, but because the term correct implies an absolute standard by which language can be judged?a celestial yardstick for determining whether speech and writing measure up to an ideal, Correct is also a word like perfect that many people think cannot be compared and for which there are no degrees; a thing, they say, is either correct or incorrect there is no half way. An absolutist approach to language is procrustean in its theory and consequences. Procrustes was an obsessively neat host in an- cient Greece. He liked his guests to fit his beds, and if guests were too short for a bed. Procrustes would stretch them until they fit, and if they were too long, he would lop off enough of their legs to make them even. The danger in talking about correct language is thinking of it procrusteanly. Instead of correct, those who study usage today often prefer the term acceptable.... Good English is that which is acceptable to the participants in any exchange of speech or writing. What makes good English good is that it passes current, it is not out of place, it is acceptable." So it seems from the above the world 'acceptable' and not 'correct' is the key here. And let me tell you this, from many discussions with my American friends the bottom line is if the message is clear. According to them if the message is clear then it is acceptable. According to it "it don't matter" is quite clear thus acceptable. I guess I belong to those who "with curiosity study the differences". How about you? :) Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
tynski Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... 04.06.03, 13:38 Gość portalu: awalk napisał(a): > > So it seems from the above the world 'acceptable' and not 'correct' is the key > here. Let me put it as gently and succinctly as I can: Sir, you are unacceptably nuts. Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
Gość: awalk Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 04.06.03, 15:04 tynski napisała: > Let me put it as gently and succinctly as I can: > Sir, you are unacceptably nuts. You are a pathetic figure tynski and you are repeating yourself. How about being constructive for a change? Is it really beyond your reach? On the other hand perhaps you are right, I'm nuts because I am talking to you but then like they say: every living thing has its place in the great circle of life, so do you. What a pity! Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
Gość: guest Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.ipt.aol.com 06.06.03, 08:32 Gość portalu: awalk napisał(a): > First of all there is nothing like standard informal Eng > lish in existence. Yes, there is. In fact, there is a great range of styles within standard English, at all levels of the language: vocabulary, syntax, pronunciation, etc. Casual or informal should by no means be equated with non-standard. You can be “pissed off” or you can be “exasperated”, you can say "I am going to tell her" or "I'm gonna tell'er"--this is just morphophonemic condensation characteristic of fast or casual speech. This is all standard English. Yes, "I wanna go there" and "I'm gonna do it" is standard English--casual? yes, but still standard. The following, however, is NOT standard English: "It don't matter", not even casual standard English. As I said, it is used in some dialects, but not in this particular one. By the way, those other dialects are called "non-standard" and not "sub-standard". This brings us to your next point: > In addition many Linquists say that there is no such a thing as a standard E > nglish. Well, would you care to name a few? It is true that standard English, as opposed to many other dialects, is rather uninteresting for linguists as an object of study, for reasons I won't go into right now, but that's not the point here. And it's not that hard to define it: it is simply the set of linguistic norms shared by people who are educated. Yes, everybody has their quirks, but the core is surprisingly consistent, and educated English speakers do not normally say "It don't matter", unless they are doing it for a particular effect. There is nothing in your long quote that contradicts what I have said. I never used the word "correctness" and I never said that something is bad and should not be used. All I'm saying is that this particular feature is not part of standard English. So what's my point?, you might ask. Well, my comment and advice for the guy who started the thread is that this construction is used in some dialects of English and you can go ahead and use it too if you like, but you should be aware of the consequences. It's not that there'll be a breakdown in communication of course but there is a price to pay and it is social in nature: if you speak like this, you will be perceived as a person who lacks in education. Mind you, some people will like you and you may be popular in some circles. You’ll sound just like one of the boys, like a real man, and not like a sissy “proper” English speaker. I’m afraid, though, that you may have difficulty getting some jobs and that most people may not be so understanding:- ). > I guess I belong to those who "with curiosity study the differ > ences". How about you? :) So do I, and they even pay me for it:-). Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
Gość: awalk Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.warszawa.sdi.tpnet.pl 09.06.03, 11:55 Gość portalu: guest napisał(a): ) Gość portalu: awalk napisał(a): ) ) First of all there is nothing like standard informal Eng ) ) lish in existence. ) ) Yes, there is. In fact, there is a great range of styles within standard ) English, at all levels of the language: vocabulary, syntax, pronunciation, etc. ) ) Casual or informal should by no means be equated with non-standard. You can ) be ?pissed off? or you can be ?exasperated?, you can sa ) y "I am going to tell ) her" or "I'm gonna tell'er"--this is just morphophonemic condensation ) characteristic of fast or casual speech. This is all standard English. Yes, "I ) wanna go there" and "I'm gonna do it" is standard English--casual? yes, but ) still standard. The following, however, is NOT standard English: "It don't ) matter", not even casual standard English. As I said, it is used in some ) dialects, but not in this particular one. By the way, those other dialects are ) called "non-standard" and not "sub-standard". I guess my understanding of the word standard is a bit different then yours. For me standard or formal is what you are taught at schools. For example 'gonna' is usually not taught there, however it is perfectly correct casual pronunciation of 'going to form'. For me it is not standard because it is usually not taught at schools however very widely used in everyday language. ) ) This brings us to your next point: ) ) In addition many Linquists say that there is no such a thing as a standard ) E ) ) nglish. ) ) Well, would you care to name a few? This is not a fair question because I usually don't remember such details but by a sheer coincidence I can name one. "There is no official English language," said Jesse Sheidlower, the North American editor of the Oxford English Dictionary. "Language is spread not because not anyone dictates any one thing to happen. The decisions are made by the language and the people who use the language." It is true that standard English, as ) opposed to many other dialects, is rather uninteresting for linguists as an ) object of study, for reasons I won't go into right now, but that's not the ) point here. And it's not that hard to define it: it is simply the set of ) linguistic norms shared by people who are educated. Yes, everybody has their ) quirks, but the core is surprisingly consistent, and educated English speakers ) do not normally say "It don't matter", unless they are doing it for a ) particular effect. ) ) There is nothing in your long quote that contradicts what I have said. I never ) used the word "correctness" and I never said that something is bad and should ) not be used. All I'm saying is that this particular feature is not part of ) standard English. So what's my point?, you might ask. Well, my comment and ) advice for the guy who started the thread is that this construction is used in ) some dialects of English and you can go ahead and use it too if you like, but ) you should be aware of the consequences. It's not that there'll be a breakdown ) in communication of course but there is a price to pay and it is social in ) nature: if you speak like this, you will be perceived as a person who lacks in ) education. Mind you, some people will like you and you may be popular in some ) circles. You?ll sound just like one of the boys, like a real man, and not ) like ) a sissy ?proper? English speaker. I?m afraid, though, that yo ) u may have ) difficulty getting some jobs and that most people may not be so understanding:- ) ). I agree but you must remember that it is only a matter of using of informal English in the appropriate situations. Then you don't run the risk of being misjudged. Therefore I can agree it is not a good idea for the non-natives to use 'it don't matter' expression but it is quite acceptable for the natives on the condition they do it in the right situation. And they do, I've heard it used many times but of course in informal circumstances. Finally, I don't think his boss uses it because he is uneducated and doesn't know the correct expression. I am sure he uses it for one of the reasons that we use the casual language. ) ) ) I guess I belong to those who "with curiosity study the differ ) ) ences". How about you? :) ) ) So do I, and they even pay me for it:-). That means you are a proffesional. I'm not. :) Below you'll find the article I took the quote from. enjoy September 19, 2002 Nu Shortcuts in School R 2 Much 4 Teachers By JENNIFER 8. LEE ACH September Jacqueline Harding prepares a classroom presentation on the common writing mistakes she sees in her students' work. Ms. Harding, an eighth-grade English teacher at Viking Middle School in Guernee, Ill., scribbles the words that have plagued generations of schoolchildren across her whiteboard: There. Their. They're. Your. You're. To. Too. Two. Its. It's. This September, she has added a new list: u, r, ur, b4, wuz, cuz, 2. When she asked her students how many of them used shortcuts like these in their writing, Ms. Harding said, she was not surprised when most of them raised their hands. This, after all, is their online lingua franca: English adapted for the spitfire conversational style of Internet instant messaging. Ms. Harding, who has seen such shortcuts creep into student papers over the last two years, said she gave her students a warning: "If I see this in your assignments, I will take points off." "Kids should know the difference," said Ms. Harding, who decided to address this issue head-on this year. "They should know where to draw the line between formal writing and conversational writing." As more and more teenagers socialize online, middle school and high school teachers like Ms. Harding are increasingly seeing a breezy form of Internet English jump from e-mail into schoolwork. To their dismay, teachers say that papers are being written with shortened words, improper capitalization and punctuation, and characters like &, $ and @. Teachers have deducted points, drawn red circles and tsk-tsked at their classes. Yet the errant forms continue. "It stops being funny after you repeat yourself a couple of times," Ms. Harding said. But teenagers, whose social life can rely as much these days on text communication as the spoken word, say that they use instant-messaging shorthand without thinking about it. They write to one another as much as they write in school, or more. "You are so used to abbreviating things, you just start doing it unconsciously on schoolwork and reports and other things," said Eve Brecker, 15, a student at Montclair High School in New Jersey. Ms. Brecker once handed in a midterm exam riddled with instant-messaging shorthand. "I had an hour to write an essay on Romeo and Juliet," she said. "I just wanted to finish before my time was up. I was writing fast and carelessly. I spelled `you' `u.' " She got a C. Even terms that cannot be expressed verbally are making their way into papers. Melanie Weaver was stunned by some of the term papers she received from a 10th-grade class she recently taught as part of an internship. "They would be trying to make a point in a paper, they would put a smiley face in the end," said Ms. Weaver, who teaches at Alvernia College in Reading, Pa. "If they were presenting an argument and they needed to present an opposite view, they would put a frown." As Trisha Fogarty, a sixth-grade teacher at Houlton Southside School in Houlton, Maine, puts it, today's students are "Generation Text." Almost 60 percent o Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
kingfish Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... 03.06.03, 14:26 It is type of a slang but I wouldn’t subscribe to it, especially at work. To me a person, in work environment, saying “It don’t matter" sounds stupid. Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
Gość: wacko jacko Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.nyc.rr.com 04.06.03, 05:20 Does you really think so? Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
Gość: Adam Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.lev.fr.power.alstom.com / 10.22.34.* 04.06.03, 14:15 Jacko Wacko, I got your joke !!! Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś
Gość: Kan Re: why does my English boss speak like that.... IP: *.mega.tmns.net.au 07.06.03, 12:20 Do you remember a song written by The Beatles; The Ticket to Ride ....She's got the ticket to ride and she don't care. Your boss don't care. Luv Skippy from down under Odpowiedz Link Zgłoś