Czy oprócz narcyzów

01.03.16, 11:36
to są jeszcze inne psychoprzypadki?

Słowo "narcystyczny" zdaje się rozwiązywać wszelkie wątpliwości i porządkować wszelkie diagnozy.
Wydaje mi się jednak, że to za uboga klasyfikacja:
1. narcyz
2. narcyz + psychopata
3. zdrowy

Czytając forum mam wrażenie, że to wyczerpuje klasyfikację wszelkich zaburzeń, cała reszta to właściwie tylko analityka do "narcyza".
A może chodzi li jedynie o zawężony zakres przeczytanej literatury? :D
To jakie jeszcze zaburzenie można postawić na równi?
    • ola_dom Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 11:43
      Bordery, ale rzadziej występują na forum.
      • olikol Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 13:04
        www.pet365.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/Border-Collie_71279674.jpg


        no tak, raczej rzadko :D
    • paris-texas-warsaw Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 11:50
      Fajnie, że na to wpadłaś:) Jest jeszcze całe DSM albo ICD, i jeszcze inne klasyfikacje - np. psychoanalitycy stosują swoje kryteria. Trzeba podać więcej informacji, a nasza manufaktura postara sie zawezic obszar poszukiwan...
      Np. zaburzenia osobowości często są mieszane, jest jedno "wiodące", a inne cechy tez można znaleźć. Np. osobowość borderline z cechami osobowości zależnej albo unikowej i jeszcze na to nakładają się np. zaburzenia afektywne jak np. depresja i zaburzenia lękowe np. fobie, i jeszcze masa innych kwestii.
      Do wyboru do koloru...
      Pamietam jak kiedys o to pytalam Sorvine, przeczytalam jakas ksizke i zastanawialam sie, jak rozne np. traktowanoie dzieci na nie wplywa. Az mi sie w glowie wtedy zakrecilo, a to dawno wszystko poszeregowane wzdluz i wszerz...
      Po prostu całe spektrum psychopatia-borderline-paranoiczne-narcystyczne mają zazwyczaj jakas komponentę narcystyczną i stąd w wielu przypadkach osób np. dość uciążliwych dla otoczenia ten element występuje.
      • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 15:38
        American Psychiatric AssociationEdit

        The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (currently the DSM-5) provides a definition of a General personality disorder that stress such disorders are an enduring and inflexible pattern of long duration that lead to significant distress or impairment and are not due to use of substances or another medical condition. DSM-5 lists ten personality disorders, grouped into three clusters. The DSM-5 also contains three diagnoses for personality patterns that do not match these ten disorders, but nevertheless exhibit characteristics of a personality disorder.[18]

        Cluster A (odd or eccentric disorders)Edit

        These disorders are often associated with schizophrenia, one in particular being Schizotypal personality disorder in that people with the disorder are often described as having a pattern of acute discomfort in close relationships, cognitive or perceptual distortions, and eccentricities of behavior. However, people diagnosed with an odd-eccentric personality disorder tend to have a greater grasp on reality than those diagnosed with schizophrenia. In general, patients suffering from the disorder can be paranoid, have difficulty being understood by others as they have an odd or eccentric manner of speaking and a lack of close relationships. Though their perceptions may be unusual, it is important to distinguish them from delusions or hallucinations as people suffering from these would be diagnosed with a different disorder entirely. There is significant evidence that suggests that a small proportion of people with Type A personality disorder, specifically schizotypal personality disorder, have the potential to develop schizophrenia or another psychotic disorder. These disorders also have a higher risk to occur among individuals whose first-degree relatives have either schizophrenia or Cluster A personality disorder.[19]
        ?Paranoid personality disorder: characterized by a pattern of irrational suspicion and mistrust of others, interpreting motivations as malevolent.
        ?Schizoid personality disorder: lack of interest and detachment from social relationships, apathy, and restricted emotional expression.
        ?Schizotypal personality disorder: a pattern of extreme discomfort interacting socially, and distorted cognitions and perceptions.
        • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 15:40
          Cluster B (dramatic, emotional or erratic disorders)Edit
          ?Antisocial personality disorder: a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others, lack of empathy, bloated self-image, manipulative and impulsive behavior.
          ?Borderline personality disorder: pervasive pattern of instability in relationships, self-image, identity, behavior and affects often leading to self-harm and impulsivity.
          ?Histrionic personality disorder: pervasive pattern of attention-seeking behavior and excessive emotions.
          ?Narcissistic personality disorder: a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy.
          • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 15:42
            Cluster C (anxious or fearful disorders)Edit
            ?Avoidant personality disorder: pervasive feelings of social inhibition and inadequacy, extreme sensitivity to negative evaluation.
            ?Dependent personality disorder: pervasive psychological need to be cared for by other people.
            ?Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder: characterized by rigid conformity to rules, perfectionism, and control to the point of satisfaction and exclusion of leisurely activities and friendships (not the same as and quite different from obsessive-compulsive disorder).

            Other personality disordersEdit
            ?Personality change due to another medical condition ? a personality disturbance due to the direct effects of a medical condition.
            ?Other specified personality disorder ? symptoms characteristic of a personality disorder but fails to meet the criteria for a specific disorder, with the reason given.
            ?Personality disorder not otherwise specified
            • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 15:51
              A samych narcyzów w zależności od poziomu cech narcystycznych można podzielić tak:
              Narcissism Spectrum












              One way of looking at the narcissism spectrum is to imagine there are a few levels. It ties in, too, to the different forms of abuse that Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers can experience. Bear in mind as you read this that this is my interpretation of the spectrum. I find it a useful model to describe real experiences.



              As I see it, there are four stages in the narcissism spectrum:




              1.Healthy, normal, natural narcissism


              2.Narcissistic traits in otherwise normal people


              3.Fully blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder


              4.Malignant Narcissism


              Healthy Normal Natural Narcissism

              We all need a certain amount of normal natural narcissism, otherwise we'd just be jellyfish. This healthy narcissism is what causes us to look after ourselves, to stand up for ourselves. It's what makes us love ourselves.

              Ironically, this is often missing, to a greater or lesser extent, in daughters of narcissistic mothers. Our mothers had too much; we have too little. It's not surprising - people learn healthy narcissism from being treated right as babies and children - and we DOMNs did not experience that. It's why we struggle so much with loving ourselves and with appropriate self-care. It's why we often loathe ourselves and have such low self-esteem.

              One of the major goals of this website is to help DOMNs learn to love themselves, esteem themselves, and care for themselves.
              • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 15:54
                Narcissistic traits in otherwise normal people

                Many people can pick up narcissistic traits, e.g. talking too much, dominating conversations and so on. The difference between them and genuine NPDs is that they will try to change if they are challenged on it; they won't be totally defensive about it as a narcissist would. They may not like it, but they won't go into full narcissistic rage about it, and they accept your right to question them. These narcissistic traits are often known as fleas.

                Again ironically, daughters of narcissistic mothers can often have some narcissistic traits, or fleas. It's not surprising; after all, we learned how to relate from our parents, same as everybody else. It's just that we learned narcissistic and dysfunctional ways.

                However, those who merely have fleas rather than being genuinely narcissistic will be able to recognise that this behaviour is wrong, have the desire to change it, and the ability to change it.
                • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 15:56
                  Fully blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder

                  This is where the person has all the genuine narcissism traits described in its own section. This person is a full-blown Narcissist.

                  However, unlike the Malignant Narcissist below, this person will not deliberately go out of her way to hurt you.

                  Once this type of Narcissist is getting all the Narcissistic Supply she needs, and is the centre of attention, and you're giving her enough deference, and not challenging her at all - well, she'll be calm and even quite pleasant to be around.

                  You're always only one step from it all going wrong though. So you can never relax.

                  It can be likened to walking along a very, very, narrow path on a cliff-side. The meadow on the clifftop might be pretty, with bright wiildflowers, and the day might be sunny and warm - but no matter. You are still always on a cliff-edge, and one false step ends in disaster. And in the same way that walking along that narrow cliff-path would require endless, exhausting, vigilance and concentration, being with this Narcissist is the same. You're one wrong word or incorrect opinion away from her rage or tears or whatever her ploy is.

                  This category can be a tough one to deal with because it's so subtle. If you're actively being mistreated, as in Malignant Narcissism below, then at least you know it. But this category can be a very crazy-making, head-wrecking one.
                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 15:57
                    Malignant Narcissism

                    Malignant Narcissism is where Narcissism gets vicious. It's where the Narcissistic Mother does proactively cruel and vicious things such as abuse you, or facilitate others abusing you. It's where she gets rid of your beloved pet just to see you cry. In Malignant Narcissism, she's actively feeding off your pain. It's being an emotional vampire to the max.
                    • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 20:56
                      I jeszcze dwa typy narcystycznych matek:
                      Engulfing Mother
                      An Engulfing Mother is one whose Narcissistic Personality Disorder manifests itself in allowing no boundary to exist between herself and her daughter. She somehow views her daughter as being an extension of herself, rather than seeing her as a separate person.

                      This can work fine when the daughter is a baby or young toddler ? an infant sees no boundary between herself and her mother either, and this leads to the mutual love affair we see between mothers and their babies, and that?s right and normal, and very important for bonding.

                      The problem is that the natural process of the child individuating herself ? becoming aware of herself as an individual, and pulling away from the engulfing mother in order to become her own person ? is then thwarted and even pro-actively blocked. This is done so emphatically and subtly that the daughter doesn?t even realise it, and perhaps may not question it.

                      And so, at a time when appropriate boundaries ? physical, emotional and psychological ? should be in place, they?re not. And so the engulfing mother will feel free to read her daughter?s letters or e-mail, to ask her daughter overly personal and intrusive questions, to barge into the bathroom when the daughter is bathing or even is on the toilet. It can even range into totally inappropriate intimate examinations, for example.

                      The problem persists into adulthood too. The engulfing mother might try to be overly involved in her daughter?s marriage, for example, asking inappropriate questions about her daughter?s sex life! Or running down her daughter?s husband, trying to make the daughter unhappy with him.

                      The engulfing mother might blur her and her daughter?s tastes, insisting, say, that the daughter loves such a food, or such a colour, just because she herself does. The daughter may actively dislike that food or that colour, but knows there?s no point saying it because of the rage and dismissal she?d incur. Or the daughter might not even know if she likes it or not, as she was never given the chance to find her own taste.

                      If the daughter ever does try to assert her individuality, perhaps in her teen years (which is another natural point at which people individuate further), the engulfing mother will react badly. She may manifest Narcissistic Rage at attempts by the daughter to separate, and terrorise the daughter into submission. Or she may sneer or gaslight the daughter. This can be hugely shocking to the daughter who'd never known anything but approval and (what felt like) love before. The tactics vary, but the result remains the same: an engulfed and trapped daughter.

                      The same narcissistic mother can be engulfing to some of her children, likely the Golden Child/ren, and Ignoring to others such as the Scapegoats.
                      • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 20:59

                        Tactics of the Engulfing Mother




                        The engulfing mother will use tactics like Parentification and/or Infantalisation to keep her daughter bound to her. She may use Triangulation between family members to keep people off-balance, and hence more dependent on her.

                        Even as an adult, it?s very likely the daughter won?t realise that this engulfing is going on, or perhaps only dimly, in a way that is forever just a glimpse out of the corner of her eye, to disappear entirely when she tries to focus on it.

                        The daughter, and others around her, might also think how wonderful the relationship between her and her mother is. Isn?t it so good to be so close and loving and bonded even into adulthood? People probably praise and even envy that relationship. How can the daughter even begin to question it? Especially when it?s been like this all her life and she doesn?t know any differently.

                        Another issue with an engulfing mother is that she?ll often make it very difficult if you try to enforce No Contact. She just won?t take no for an answer. She does nothing less than stalking, in fact. There have been many cases where the daughter had to get a legal barring order on her mother before she?d leave her alone.

                        I personally am convinced that an engulfing mother is a much, much worse abuse than the Ignoring Narcissistic Mother. I was ?lucky? enough to have. The Ignoring Mother says: ?Who you are isn?t acceptable or loveable,? which is bad enough, but at least acknowledges that there is a ?you? to be unacceptable and unloveable.

                        The Engulfing Mother says, in effect: ?There is no you. You do not exist. You are not a real person. You are just a bit of me walking around separately.? And can there possibly be a worse abuse than that, to totally negate another?s existence? I cannot think of one.

                        And it?s doubly worse, of course, because it?s so hard to escape from, because as we?ve said, most of the time the Engulfed Daughter doesn?t even realise it is happening.

                        It?s harder to recover from too, if escape does happen. At least I and other Ignored Daughters ?only? had to learn that their unacceptable and unloveable selves were in fact acceptable and loveable. Engulfed Daughters have to find their own Selves first. What others did naturally and organically from a very early age, they have to do consciously and proactively.
                        • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 21:02

                          Ignoring Mother
                          Apart from an Engulfing Mother, the other kind of Narcissistic Mother is an Ignoring Mother. This is the kind I have.

                          Unlike an Engulfer, the Ignoring Mother knows well the boundary between herself and her daughter. But seeing as she is the only object of her own concern and interest, she has no interest in her daughter, or any of her children.

                          This is very hurtful and bewildering. Being the daughter of an Engulfing Mother brings big problems, but it does have the advantage that that daughter at least can feel loved - at least until she realises that it's not real love.

                          Daughters of Ignoring Mothers have no such comfort.

                          It's hard to describe what it's like being the daughter of an Ignoring Mother. She was physically there (she was a stay-at-home-mother) but not really there for us. She never really paid us any attention unless it was to get annoyed at us.

                          She didn't supervise our cleanliness even when we were really too young to do it ourselves. I remember (I am so embarrassed to admit this ...) wearing the same vest (undershirt) for months on end. It was literally grey rather than its original white. I must not have had a bath in that time either or I would have got a clean vest.

                          My hair was always tangled and unbrushed.

                          I remember aged about 12 going to school in slippers - it wasn't that we didn't have the money for shoes; it was worse than that, it was just that new shoes weren't got. Nobody noticed that I was wearing only slippers, and I obviously didn't feel able to ask for shoes.

                          Now in fairness I need to say that when I was a teen she listened to me well. She often used to say how delighted she was that she and I had such a good, open, relationship. And we did. I'm at a loss to explain this against the background of all the other stuff. Because that happened too. I do know she got great pride out of the fact I'd talk to her about my stuff, when all the other mothers were complaining their daughters didn't talk to them. So perhaps that was part of it.

                          However, I have absolutely zero memories of her cuddling me or holding me. I have one memory of sitting on her lap, along with my brother and sister and we were all laughing. She said, "Oh I wish we had a camera!" (which we didn't own at the time). Looking back that statement strikes me as very narcissistic. But maybe I'm reading too much into it.

                          I remember going to see the film The Wizard Of Oz with her for my seventh birthday treat, and finding it terrifying, and burying my face in her lap in fear. And she certainly let me do that, but there was no gentle hand on my head, or whispered reassurances. She passively accepted what I did, but was not pro-active towards me at all.

                          I have no memories of her playing with us either or spending much time with us. She'd play board games when we were older, but that's really my only memory.

                          I have many such memories of my father, so I know that it's not that my memory was cancelled.

                          I think back to my second sister who was born when I was twelve, and my own son as a baby - and I have no memories of my mother being very affectionate with either of them as a baby. I can only remember my mother looking to hold my son once, urging me to go out and talk a walk as I surely needed a break from him, and that was - I fully believe - because she wanted to baptise him into her religion behind my back, rather than any love or affection or desire to hold him for his own sake.

                          She never paid much attention to how I was getting on in school. She never gave me advice on how to be a woman. She never taught me housekeeping skills (mind you, she wasn't great at those herself).

                          She would, if she was reading this, insist that this is not so. She would say that she held me lots, and played with us lots, and held the babies affectionately, and gave me as much advice as I would take.

                          That may be so. Just because I cannot remember a thing doesn't mean it didn't happen. On the other hand, there are things I know for a fact didn't happen, that she swears blind did happen (typical gaslighting), so I don't put too much credence on what she says.
                          • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 21:04

                            Going No-Contact With An Ignoring Mother




                            One big result of her being an Ignoring Mother is that when I finally went No Contact, she dropped me like yesterday's newspaper. She made no effort to reconcile for 9 whole months, and even then the attempt was no more than a birthday card and a bought laminated card with a generic apology on it (along with 'life's too short to bear a grudge!). There have been a few texts since, too, on occasions such as Christmas. But never a genuine attempt to solve anything.

                            That hurt, it hurt a lot - even as I was grateful for it. It makes life much easier, unlike for the daughters of Engulfing Mothers who struggle to extricate themselves.

                            But yet it hurt. And I know I'm not alone. Other Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers say the same.

                            It just shows how little she loved me, they say.

                            And yes, it does.

                            The attempts of the Engulfing Mothers to keep contact with their daughters do not show love either, though, no matter how much it might seem like it. They just shows fear of losing Narcissistic Supply.

                            But yes, it's very, very hard that they drop us so comprehensively. We have dared to challenge them, and that must be punished by banishing us. Or, they have no interest in us and so our absence is no loss at all.

                            The one thing about an Ignoring Mother is that it's more honest. They don't care, they don't really pretend to care. There's a freedom in that, along with the hurt.
                            • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 21:25
                              c.d.:
                              Narcissistic Mothers Being Nice

                              Part of the head-wreckingness of being the Daughter of a Narcissistic Mother is that these women are quite often nice to us. It's not unremittingly awful.

                              They can be nice to us as manipulation if they want something. In this case it's a control thing, with an agenda - there are often big strings attached.

                              Or, they can be nice if they're getting all the admiration and attention and stroking that they need for their narcissistic supply. If a tiger is well fed, there's no need for her to pounce.

                              And so you may well have memories of lovely times with your mother, times of laughter and lunches out and shopping trips and so on.

                              This can be very confusing. Is she abusive or isn't she? (Light's Toxicity Test will help you find out for sure, to clear this fog.)

                              And of course, if you try to tell them you don't like the way they treat you, they can validly point to these nice times.

                              The thing is that there's always an underlying tension. You're only ever one wrong word away from it all going wrong. You can never relax. If you don't give her her due respect or adoration, or if you disagree with her, or whatever tiny trigger sets her off, then you get at best a cooling-off, and at worst, a bout of Narcissistic Rage.

                              You need to play by the rules, and then all is well.

                              Just never, ever EVER protest any treatment you get. The nice things are a favour doled out to you by her grace and favour. You actually have no rights. And if you try to assert rights - well, the fun is over and you're put back in your box.
                              • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 21:52

                                Golden Child and Scapegoat
                                It?s very common for Narcissistic Mothers to have a Golden Child and Scapegoat dynamic going on in their family.

                                What this means is this: one child in the family is the Golden Child, and one or more is the Scapegoat.

                                The Golden Child, as the name suggests, is the best and most wonderful child ? at least in the eyes of the Narcissistic Mother. It seems to be that the Narcissistic Mother picks the Golden Child to be an extension of herself, onto whom she projects all her own supposed wonderfulness.

                                The Golden Child can do no wrong. She gets given the best of everything ? perhaps even apartments or houses bought for her. Her most minor achievements are celebrated and held up for admiration. Her misdemeanours are glossed over and ignored.

                                The Scapegoat on the other hand is, also as the name suggests, the person on whom all the ills of the family are projected. They can do no right. Their major achievements are dismissed. Any money spent on them is the bare minimum and is spent begrudgingly.

                                Growing up the Scapegoat can understandably feel very jealous of the Golden Child. This, of course, leads to friction between the children, which suits the Narcissistic Mother. Divide and conquer and all that, and lots of opportunities for triangulation. Indeed, the Golden Child can be encouraged by the Narcissistic Mother, either overtly or tacitly, to bully the Scapegoat which adds to the friction.

                                The Scapegoat can be punished for doing something well, because that threatens the narcissist?s narrative that the Scapegoat is all bad. Not overtly punished, because that would also ruin the narrative that it?s all the Scapegoat?s fault. But subtly, sneakily. You had to give up dancing just as you reached a triumphant milestone because of [insert trumped up excuse here] - maybe they supposedly couldn't afford dance classes any longer, or the lift to the dance classes was no longer possible, or they fell out with the dance teacher. Bonus points if the reason for sabotaging the dance classes involved the Golden Child: ?Golden Child wants to do dance too, and we can?t afford both, and it?s not fair for you to be the only one.? (And no matter if Golden Child does stuff that you don?t.) Or, ?We can?t bring you to dance class any more as Golden Child is taking up karate and her classes are on at that time.?

                                Or the punishment might be more subtle. Perhaps your dog got given away, ostensibly for a totally unconnected reason, after you won the dance medal. When such things happen enough you?ll learn, consciously or unconsciously, the pattern that bad things happen after you do something good, and you?ll start to sabotage your own successes to protect you from that. (As an aside, be aware that such sabotage patterns will last a whole lifetime until and unless they are pro-actively erased. EFT/Tapping is excellent for identifying and erasing such patterns.)

                                Or the punishment might be as head-wrecking and subtle as your parents? reaction. Oh they?ll say the right things. But their expressions and their coolness will tell the real story, that they?re angry at this achievement (again, because it spoils their carefully constructed narrative), and you?ll pick up on that and feel the icy blast of their disapproval.

                                Likewise you might get rewarded, in a strange way, for failure. You might get the approval of living down to their expectations, and you?ll pick up on that, and even that meagre approval feels good.

                                The Scapegoat is often what?s called the Identified Patient. This is the one who all the ills of the family are projected onto, and who often will play out those ills.

                                It?s not surprising that if you were abused and demeaned and treated unfairly all your life that you might have issues such as eating disorders or addiction problems or anger management issues, or depression etc. And so this reinforces the narrative that you?re the wrong one, the bad one, the Black Sheep.

                                You even believe it yourself, that you?re the problem child, the bad seed. After all, you do have the eating disorder or whatever. That?s undeniable.

                                They might bring you to therapy to try to get you fixed.

                                One of two things will happen there. You?ll either end up with a bad therapist who will believe the narrative as presented, and further reinforce your sense of your own badness and failure. Or, you?ll have a good therapist who sees through the lies and tries to treat the real broken dynamic rather than the supposedly broken you. In this case, at the first whiff that there might be something wrong with them, your parents will find some excuse (that no doubt is your fault) and whisk you away from that therapy, and that aborted therapy is another failure of yours.

                                The scapegoat is truly in a no-win situation. In most cases the abuse is subtle enough that it wouldn't warrant the involvement of social services, and so there is no option but to endure it to adulthood.

                                I?d go so far as to venture that, if you?re reading this, you were more likely to have been the Scapegoat than the Golden Child.

                                This is because, contrary to the way it felt growing up, the Scapegoat is actually the lucky one. (I mean relatively lucky, of course. No child of a narcissistic mother can be ever described as being lucky.)

                                The Golden Child can end up very engulfed by the Narcissistic Mother, and her life can end up being enmeshed in the Narcissistic Mother?s. She may well grow without proper boundaries and proper self-identity. She is likely to remain, either forever or for a long time, as a puppet of the Narcissistic Mother, and if she ever does manage to break free, that process will be infinitely more painful for her than it is for the Scapegoat.

                                The Scapegoat on the other hand, is the independent one. She?s the one who?s driven to seek answers and who may well realise about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. She?s the one who can break free from the unhealthy dynamics of the family and do her best to create a healthy life and recover from the lies she was told about herself since the day she was born. It's still not easy for her (i.e. for you) of course. Nothing about this journey is easy. But it's doable, and possible.
                                • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 23:02
                                  <CENTER><h3><a href="www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com">narcyz</a></h3></CENTER>
                                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 23:19
                                    www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/
                                    • danaide Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 16:14
                                      Zuzi! This is a Polish forum! ;D
                                      • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 19:59
                                        No co ja poradzę na to, ze głównie po ang jest tyle ciekawych informacji :) teraz prawie wszyscy znają w jakimś tam stopniu ten język, wiec mam nadzieje, ze dadzą rade zrozumieć, a jakby co to można sobie potlumaczyc, swietna nauka języka z tego będzie :-)
                                        • yoma Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 20:08
                                          A zadałaś sobie może trud przeczytania tutejszej Netykiety (po polsku)? Chodzi mi w szczególności o ten fragment

                                          >Nie wklejaj całych cudzych wypowiedzi lub artykułów - wystarczy je omówić lub podać link z odpowiednim komentarzem.
                                          • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 20:32
                                            Ale Cie ten temat meczy, a wręcz boli, wspolczuje :-) ale nie obawiaj sie, temat jest na razie jeszcze malo znany!
                                            • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 20:41
                                              Następnym razem wstawie linki :) z komentarzem ! Don't worry, be happy Yoma!
                                              • napis_z_obrazka Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 21:24
                                                zuzi.1 napisała:

                                                > Następnym razem wstawie linki :) z komentarzem ! Don't worry, be happy Yoma!
                                                Uff! Ja tez sie ciesze.
                                                Zuzi, a ja juz chcialam zdiagnozowac Syndrom Echo u Ciebie;-) Dobrze, ze sie wczesniej ugryzlam w jezyk...
                                                • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 21:43
                                                  Echo Yomy to jesteś Ty napiszobrazka :-)
                                                  • napis_z_obrazka Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 21:48
                                                    A kto tak uwaza?
                                                  • yoma Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 22:00
                                                    Zuzi. Jak wiadomo, cechą narcyzów jest przekonanie o wyższości własnych opinii.
                                                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 22:14
                                                    Cecha narcyzów jest popisowe wręcz wykręcanie kota ogonem i manipulacja slowna, w czym Yoma jesteś miszczem :-)
                                                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 22:36
                                                    Ja sie mogę takiej ' sztuki' Yoma co najwyżej od Ciebie uczyc, nie mam niestety takich naturalnych umiejętności jak Ty. Ale czytam Twoje wpisy i sie uczę :)
                                                  • yoma Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 23:28
                                                    Cieszę się, że mogłam się przydać :)
                                                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 23:43
                                                    Jak juz Cie tak chwale Yoma, to jeszcze dopisze, ze ta Twoja nieprzeladowana, wręcz ascetyczna ekspresja środków robi na mnie ogromne wrazenie, przy jednoczesnej sile przekazu :-)
                                                  • olikol Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 04.03.16, 11:16
                                                    Bosz.... kłótliwe babska każdy wątek będziecie psuć ?
                                                    Zuzi dlaczego jesteś taka agresywna? Wklejasz tony "mądrych tekstów" a sama się zachowujesz , że "bez kija nie podchodź".
                                                    I z tego co widzę, to organicznie wręcz nie tolerujesz żadnej krytyki pod swoim adresem i od razu skaczesz innym do gardłą złośliwościami i przytykami.
                                                    A dziewczyny mają rację - polskie forum, więc po pierwsze pisz po polsku, po drugie w netykiecie jest zakaz przeklejania cudzych treści w takiej ilości bo od tego jest linkowanie. A większość osób na forach i tak gdy widzi całą serię wklejek to nawet do nich nie zagląda.
                                                    Więc albo chcesz faktycznie brać udział w rozmowie i podajesz linka plus swoje wnioski - albo swoje przetłumaczenie wklejek w języku polskim,
                                                    albo nie chodzi ci o rozmowę ale o zaspokojenie swojego ego i neofickiego poczucia że wiesz lepiej/uratujesz świat bo ty się znasz/masz pod kontrolą - bawiąc się w przeklejanie tomów treści z różnych blogów i innych stron na to forum.
                                                    Zastanów się po co to robisz. Byłaś sama na terapii?
                                                    Bo to się robi męczące.
                                                  • ola_dom Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 04.03.16, 11:23
                                                    olikol napisała:

                                                    > Bo to się robi męczące.

                                                    Ja tylko zwrócę jeszcze uwagę na to, że w tym wątku miała być mowa o wszystkich innych przypadkach OPRÓCZ narcyzów, a tymczasem został zawalony informacjami o nich właśnie :)
                                                  • olikol Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 04.03.16, 11:39
                                                    No właśnie, z lodówki mi zaczynają wyskakiwać. A ja tylko mleko chciałam wyciągnąć :)P
                                                    Za chwilę zaczną się wątki "Jak żyć?Nie jestem narcyzem więc kim?!nie mogę się w życiu odnaleźć" :P
                                                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 04.03.16, 12:15
                                                    Wklejam informacyjnie,temat malo znany, wiec warto go rozpowszechniać ( pisałam juz wielokrotnie) tłumaczyć nie będę, bo nie chce tekstu znieksztalcac tłumaczeniem. Napisalam wyraźnie, ze następnym razem będę linkowac z komentarzem, wiec gdzie tu dostrzegasz nie przyjmowanie krytyki. Kto bedzie chcial przeczytac, ten przeczyta. Reszta korespondencji z Yoma to nie złośliwość a jedynie moja opinia.Gdybym chciała swoje ego zaspokajać to nie bazowalabym na copy paste tylko na własnych zaj...fajnych komentarzach. Ponieważ zalozylas temat odnoszący sie również do tego zaburzenia, wiec oprócz inf. nt. innych psychoprzypadkow wrzuciłam ciekawe inf. ze zaktualizowanego bloga, który na koncu zalinkowalam. Wrzuciłam kilka info. i koniec, więcej w tym wątku nie wrzucę. Może ktos inny powrzuca cos na temat innych przypadków, z własnego doświadczenia lub z doświadczenia znajomych.Chetnie poczytam, ciekawi mnie, czy przy innych problemach występuje podobny matrix jak przy NZO. A co do terapii: zainteresowanie danym zagadnieniem nie stanowi podstawy do terapeutyzowania sie z tego powodu.
                                                  • morgen_stern Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 11.03.16, 13:22
                                                    > Wklejam informacyjnie,temat malo znany, wiec warto go rozpowszechniać ( pisałam
                                                    > juz wielokrotnie) tłumaczyć nie będę, bo nie chce tekstu znieksztalcac tłumacz
                                                    > eniem.

                                                    Taktak, oczywiście ;) sorry, ale dziewczyny powyżej mają rację, zaśmiecasz forum, na zwróconą uwagę reagujesz agresją. Wątek z kulinarnymi blogami też jest cokolwiek nie na miejscu i powinien polecieć. To forum ściśle tematyczne, jak będę chciała poczytać o kulinariach pójdę na Kuchnię lub Ematkę.
                                                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 11.03.16, 15:28
                                                    A Ty zawsze jesteś taka nadgorliwa? Jak Ci się nie podoba to przyloz sie i spowoduj, żeby wyrzucili, skoro tak Ci przeszkadza. Kulinaria sa tez częścią zycia rodzinnego, szeroko rozumianego.
                                                  • morgen_stern Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 11.03.16, 15:46
                                                    >Kulinaria sa tez częścią zycia
                                                    > rodzinnego, szeroko rozumianego.

                                                    Chyba sobie jaja robisz.
                                                    Owszem, kliknęłam w kosz. A ty się nieco opanuj, to nie twoja prywatna strona internetowa.
                                                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 11.03.16, 15:57
                                                    Syndrom psa sąsiada Cie dopadl?
                                                  • morgen_stern Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 11.03.16, 16:12
                                                    Nie wiem o jakim syndromie piszesz, po prostu zaśmiecasz forum i przyjmij to w końcu do wiadomości, zamiast się rzucać bez sensu.
                                                  • paris-texas-warsaw Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 12.03.16, 23:13
                                                    Przypomniało mi się, że oprócz ludzi takich i owakich, narcystycznych i wręcz przeciwnie, są jeszcze osoby baaardzo lubiące regulaminy, porządki, czystość, zasady i reguły i jak inni odezwą się albo napiszą coś nie tak jak np. netykieta nakazuje, to walczą z tym, czyszczą, klikają w kosze, dziwią się, że ktoś nie zna na pamięć 1500 przykazań netykiety i nie podpisał tych zasad podpisem notarialnie poświadczonym albo przynajmniej podpisem elektronicznym etc. i potem jak chcę znaleźć najlepszy wątek na temat Żr czyli o jedzeniu i blogach ze smacznymi sałatkami, to nie ma już tego wątku... Ale takie jest właśnie życie;)
                                                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 12.03.16, 23:30
                                                    Paris, to jest typowy syndrom psa ogrodnika ( pardon bo pomylilo mi się wczesniej z sąsiadem :-)) sam nie zje i drugiemu nie da :) i jeszcze zarzuci, ze prywatne ranczo ktos sobie uprawia na publicznym blogu :-) ale gdybyś potrzebowala jakies blogi to mam je wszystkie w ulubionych, wiec nic nie zginie. Polecalam Ci kwestia smaku, qchenne-inspiracje z polskich i mynewroots z zagranicznych. Na nich sa fajne salatki. Wpisz w Google i korzystaj ze smakiem. A pani von morgenstern gdyby chciała skorzystać, to tez polecam! :)
                                                  • paris-texas-warsaw Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 12.03.16, 23:37
                                                    Sam NIE ZJE sałatki i drugiemu nie da:)))) Dzięki za powtórne namiary, przekopiowuję na swój prywatny serwer na Kajmanach i przykro mi, ale klikam kosz przy swoich dwóch postach i tym Twoim Zuzi, ale rozumiesz, że to wątek narcyzów, a nie sałatek;)
                                                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 13.03.16, 00:07
                                                    Oki nie ma sprawy :-) a na koniec doprecyzuje, ze ten watek w zamiarze jego autorki byl OPROCZ narcyzów i niech tak zostanie :)
                                                  • paris-texas-warsaw Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 13.03.16, 00:28
                                                    A to przepraszam, zapomniałam o temacie. Proszę moderację o pozostawienie postów, bo jednak są w temacie wątku. Szkoda tylko, że jakoś zniknął przyszpilony wątek Diff dotyczący grupowej pracy nad regulaminem, również dawał jakąś orientację, jak powinno się pisać na forum;)
                                                  • zuzi.1 Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 13.03.16, 01:08
                                                    Watek Diff wyleciał chyba w podobnym czasie, wiesz elita emamy ma chody u moderatorek, wiec co chca, to tną, bez żadnego dod. nadzoru.
                                            • yoma Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 21:23
                                              Bo owszem, dwadzieścia postów składających się z przeklejonego tekstu jest męczące. Do takich rzeczy służą blogi, chociaż przeklejony blog też zapewne nie znalazłby czytelników.
      • olikol Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 12:55
        Coś a'la "dajcie mi człowieka a paragraf (zaburzenie) się znajdzie" :D
        • yoma Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 13:21
          Bo nie ma ludzi zdrowych, są tylko niezdiagnozowani :P
    • yoma Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 01.03.16, 16:20
      A bo to taka faza. Dwa lata temu byli modni przemocowcy, z chwilową odmianą: przemocowiec bierny.
      • olikol Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 12:51
        hahaha, myślisz, że za kolejne dwa lata na topie będzie nowe wszystkowyjaśniające zaburzenie?
        coś jak z modą na lepszość margaryny od masła? ;)

        • yoma Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 03.03.16, 13:20
          Coś w tym stylu :)
    • agnieszka_iwaszkiewicz Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 10.03.16, 22:36
      Narcyzm znakomicie oddaje zaburzenie naszych czasów, będąc jednocześnie ich dzieckiem.
      Samo określenie "narcyzm", czy " narcystyczne" jest obecnie używane dość potocznie i pozyskuje dużą pojemność przez to z klinicznym narcystycznym zaburzeniem to określenie nie zawsze jest spójne. Ale jest poręczne dla określenia wielu zjawisk.
      Życia w kulturze bycia obserwowanym i obserwującym. Dążenia do omnipotentnej kontroli. Poczucia pustki wewnętrznej, wielorakość tożsamości. Drażliwości, skłonność do urazy i nadwrażliwości. Narcystycznego rodzicielstwa. Itp.
      Natomiast jest jeszcze wiele rysów osobowości, które dziś są spotykane: symbiotyczne , schizoidalne , depresyjne, obsesyjno -kompulsyjne, paranoidalne ( często obecnie spotykany rys ).
      Jest bardzo dużo skłonności do psychosomatyki, co zwykle się nakłada na rozmaite osobowości, ale dziś być może tę skłonność zacznie się wyodrębniać.
      Narcyzi nie są sami. Agnieszka Iwaszkiewicz


    • apersona Re: Czy oprócz narcyzów 11.03.16, 14:26
      W necie bardzo szybko zdiagnozują ci depresję, a twoim dzieciom zaburzenia ze spektrum autyzmu.
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