Polish-German War Under a PiS Flag

29.05.09, 12:54
Change the Constitution? Typically. Nobody really knows what really
and precisely this German resolution says. I don’t now either,
because there is not an exact translation of that but only some
opinions of some polish politicians. Some particular sentences, some
parts without context. In this way we can “prove” everything. I have
understood that everybody in EU has the right to live everywhere in
the Union and this well-known right for the former German expellees
too. So even the well known in Poland Ms. Stejnbach can live now in
the same polish house where she was born in 1943. She can buy this
house in Poland or another and nobody is questioning our polish-
german borders and the fact that in this case Rumia was and is
polish town. Where is the problem? And expulsions? To condemn it?
That’s again - well known and normal international attitude of
democratic countries. We have to do whit such things each day – in
Africa, Asia or elsewhere. There are still wars and connected
expelletions. Why should we not in EU criticise that? Yes, each time
taking about the WWII we should very clearly say that the nasi III
Raich started this war and not Poland and after that there were
terrible consequences for Europe and even for German nation but this
is obvious thing and nobody has something against it.
    • jasiekniepolski Polish-German War Under a PiS Flag 29.05.09, 14:08
      Jurisprudentially, there is no way that the German expellees and
      their descendants can claim their ownership of their lost properties
      within the Polish borders. First, Poland is a sovereign nation, with
      the borders approved on the 12th June 1990 by reunified Germany.
      Second, the expulsion of the Germans was implemented by the Soviets
      when there was no governmental control of what today the Polish land
      is. Third, when the expulsion and the property confiscation took
      place neither Germany nor Poland had signed the European Convention
      on Human Rights. The first one is obvious and the latter two were
      clearly pointed out by the European Court of Human Rights on the 9th
      October 2008. Thus, there is no need for any legislation to defend
      the properties from such ownership claims by the expellees and their
      descendents.

      Mentally, it is now even more important for both Poles and Germans
      to overcome the mutual hatreds. On the Polish side, the government,
      mass media, school teachers and history textbooks must elaborate why
      Poles need not worry about this matter any more. This will also
      convince the people that Mr Kaczynski is just a loquacious
      provincial hare, a hare that eats up Poland's future just for the
      sake of his own personal interests.
      • toja3003 no one is afraid 29.05.09, 14:44
        Nobody is “worry about this matter”. We have again, before some
        election, to do with simple political manipulations with the well
        known motto “bad Germans are coming and we must defend our country”.

        The problem is - almost nobody in Poland really believes in such
        nonsense, but this is our tradition, still to bee in a role of
        victim and with the moral (dirty) fingers show that the others,
        foreigners, Jews, Germans, Americans, Russians, strangers, aliens –
        just “THEY” – are each time guilty for everything in Poland.
        • jasiekniepolski Re: no one is afraid 29.05.09, 22:00
          It might be that nobody is worrying any more but they were a little
          ago. A survey conducted by der Spiegel in 2005 showed that more than
          60 per cent of the Polish people were worrying actually about the
          issue. That is why I posted the previous comment.

          Xenophobia is not exclusively characteristic of the Polish people.
          In the recent recession, a number of the British people are now
          chanting in chorus “British jobs for British workers” and the
          British papers are implying agreement to the slogan, both of which
          come from the same sentiment, the sentiment that both the working
          class and the other class in the UK oddly share. Judging from my
          experiences with Poles, they are such naïve information shortfalls
          due to the social and economic ordeals they have long undergone that
          they tend to believe a number of false accusations, one of which is
          that they might be more xenophobic fundamentally than the others
          are. The problem is the demagogues both inside and outside that
          propagate such untruths. Not being Polish or German, I always feel
          more comfortable staying and travelling in Poland than in any of the
          other European countries. Poles, though you might be surprised to
          hear this, are basically more of tolerant nature towards foreigners
          than the other Europeans, but that is actually true and the born
          cosmopolitanism is the national virtue and tradition that you must
          rather be calmly proud of having.
          • toja3003 Moldavia and Albania? 02.06.09, 18:33
            60 per cent of the Polish people are worrying actually about the
            issue said Spiegel 4 years ago? I suppose 2009 would be 70% and so
            on and 2000 only 50%. Conclusion? The more time from the end of WWII
            (this year we have 70th anniversary!) the more unreal are this
            problems, especially directly before any election. It’s pretty
            ridiculous for this part of the polish society, which can compare
            some information using sources and not manipulated interpretation of
            our polish politicians. I.e. Spiegel –
            under “www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,625824,00.ht
            ml” You can find something else that these “opinions”.

            Something else now, You said “Poles are basically more of tolerant
            nature towards foreigners than the other Europeans”. Sorry but we
            cannot check the situation because we have not 5 millions dark
            Asians like UK, or 5 Millions dark Turkeys like Germany, or 5
            millions dark Africans like France. We had only 20 Roma (no more
            Gipsy even) by Mlawa some years ago and instantly some problems
            between this “dark” people and “tolerant Poles”.

            And the last thing “comfortable staying and travelling in Poland
            than in any of the other European countries.” Really? Your decision
            and not my opinion. Or maybe it’s the question of travelling (no
            problem, You have money You are welcome) and living in a country-
            try this in Poland. I’m not so comfortable. I like high-speed trains
            in France or Germany much better than our polish snails. I like
            British or Spanish motorways much better than our “polish roads”. I
            like Swiss or Swedish corruption (is there smaller isn’t it?) much
            better than our polish. What about education, medical care, state
            institutions, bureaucracy, level of organisation, professionalism –
            just in the daily live in average bus for example and so on. Sorry,
            but I always feel more comfortable staying and travelling not in
            Poland but better in any of the Other West-European countries (or
            should we compare all European countries incl. Georgia, Moldavia and
            Albania).
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