Gość: Dave
IP: *.mel.iprimus.net.au
30.01.02, 14:21
Rozmawialem z nim przez internet. Pytalem faceta, ktorego rodzina pochodzi z
Gdanska, czy Polska powinna oddac Niemcom Poznan (po angielsku):
Yes, all of those things that you wrote down were clearly bad. Some Germans did
bad things to Poles. This is a fact. That does not change my opinion that the
Poles would have been better off under the Third Reich Germans, instead of
under the communist Russians. My main point on this is financial, and economic.
The Third Reich knew how to manage a good economy, and the communists didn't
understand how to maintain a good economy. As far as Poles being harmed by
Germans, this was not condoned by the state, and I think that the Russians were
worse. There was never an instance like Katyn committed by the Germans. That
was a purposeful state sanctioned slaughter. The German victors treated the
defeated Polish military with honor, and respect. Under the rule of the Third
Reich, all Germans and Poles would be better off today, in my opinion. We would
be members of a nation that would rival, or surpass the greatness of the USA,
and everyones economic situations would be better. That is just my opinion,
although based on facts, and I think that some Poles would even agree with me.
My opinion on Posen (city, and province) is basically in line with my other
thoughts that you have read. The province of Posen is a region that was the
historical center of origin of the Polish Nation in the 10th century, and I
view it as mostly Polish, but partially German. The city of Posen, I would say,
is clearly Polish (although the Posen city center is notable for the Prussian
style of architecture), and I do not think that it should be returned to
Germany. The province of Posen should be divided among Germany and Poland, with
Germany getting between 35% and 45% of the province; land that is of the North,
and West areas, and especially Grenzmark. The border would then possibly come
close to the city of Posen, but Posen would still be Polish. There is still
about 1,000,000 Germans living in Poland today. Here is a list of some of the
major cites that should come back to Germany.
Bromberg
Beuthen
Teschen
Tschenstochau
Danzig
Gleiwitz
Annaberg
Landsberg
Greifenhagen
Himmelwitz
Kattowitz
Glatz
Liegnitz
Allenstein
Oppeln
Schneidemühl
Pommern
Ratibor
Stettin
Schlesien
Schweidnitz
Thorn
Waldenburg
Loslau
Breslau
Deschowitz
There are also other areas. I think that Berlin's objectives should be limited,
and should not cease until the relevant land is held by German forces.
Unfortunately, at this point, very few people share my opinion. I feel that
this is changing, though. Many people misunderstand my position as a German
Nationalist. I do not just feel like a German Nationalist. I also feel like a
Norwegian, Polish, ect. Nationalist. I support all European Nationalists. I
feel that if Germany was holding the land of another people, that we should
give it back to them, but it is the opposite, and I feel that we should have
our lands given back.
I remember you stating that if Poland was to give back the historically German
lands that you would want Belarus, and the Ukraine to give back the land that
they got from Poland. The problem with that is that the Poles were, in most of
the area, ruling over the Belarussians and Ukrainians, with the exception of
the western edge. I agree that the western edge should be returned to Poland,
but if all of the ruled area was given back, Poland would have all of Belarus,
and half of the Ukraine.
Moja odpowiedz:
We can keep Poznan? Well, that's a relief. But I have to point out that you are
wrong on most of the other counts. I mean, why do you keep saying that these
lands are German? Gdansk, for example, was founded by Poland, not Germany. It
was first mentioned as a POLISH city in 997 and was part of the Wloclawek
diocese. You can't dispute this. It's a fact. Any independent source will
verify this. The city only became Germanized when the Teutonic Knights SEIZED
it ILLEGALLY in 1308. Remember, that WE invited the Tutonic Knights to Prussia,
and those scoundrels betrayed us. Or do you dispute that fact also?
Some of the other towns were founded by Germans. But they were founded on land
that first officially belonged to the POLISH state. Have you ever wondered what
Pommern means in Germany? Nothing. In Slavic it means "by the sea" ("po" is
along, and "morze" is sea). These lands were only Germanized later on due to an
influx of settlers, mostly from Lower Saxony and Flanders. Here is a map of
Europe from the 10th century:
www.euratlas.com/time/nw1000.jpg
www.euratlas.com/time/nea1000.jpg
This comes from a respected source and is impartial. Where's Germany? Where's
Poland? Who do these lands belong to? POLAND. Or, at the very least, Slavic
peoples. Last time I looked, Germans were not Slavs.
It seems remarkable to me that you say things like "these lands should be held
by German forces". Do you seriously think that the vast majority of Germans
would risk another major war over this? War is the last thing on the minds of
middle-class, western societies. If one German soldier was killed in this war,
there's be an outcry. To mobilize Germany for a war with Poland, you'd have to
create a major revolution in Germany. Do you think the EU and the US would
stand for this? It's probably not their business, but, no they would certainly
not. And not just for Poland's sake. Furthermore, like I said, taking Poland
would prove a lot more difficult than in 1939, when you had us surrounded, and
you were in cahoots with the USSR. I also read this week that Germany will help
Poland modernize it's army. You guys are sending us 128 Leopard 2 tanks for
FREE.
In regards to this comment: "As far as Poles being harmed by Germans, this was
not condoned by the state, and I think that the Russians were worse."
I strongly disagree with you, and the weight of evidence to back my view is
awesome.
I was also thinking about another thing you said earlier. You said the Polish
government does not respect private ownership. Well, it's nice to be in a
position to respect these things, but Poland is not. First we were crippled by
the war, and then by the Soviet occupation. Do you think that it's reasonable
to put at risk Poland's young democracy just to settle some old scores? It's
not like the Germans are any different from the Poles and Jews who also lost
their property. My family had quite a bit of real estate in today's Belarus.
Are we gonna get that back? Fat chance. So I think you might have to wait a bit
before Poland is ready to start paying compensation. In most cases, you can't
get back any buildings in places like Gdansk because they're no longer there.
They were rebuilt from scratch by Poles after being destroyed by the Russians.
Regards.
