Poor quality Polish translators

[varsovian]

They make me mad!!!!!!!
Why are there so many "professional" translators who lose any remnant of
commonsense when they start translating into English??
Is it something to do with professional Poles who "know" English so well that
they reject anything other than a strictly literal translation?
Or perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the legal translators'
association is so poor that quality legal translators do not join?
Frighteningly, the translators' association is now in charge of the
accreditation process for court and legal translators ... and forces them to
learn nonsensical English translations which are understandable only to
Polish speakers.
Remember, this is a serious matter.
The Mayor of Warsaw (when we get one) is a mayor - not a "president". The
mayors understand this, no other Pole does though.
One "Marshal of the Sejm" went on a visit to Egypt ... and was greeted by the
massed ranks of the Egyptian army! Marshal = General, not Speaker of the
House ...
A Sanitary Inspector either looks down your toilets or at you podpaski - try
Environmental Health Officer (or Inspector, if you want)
"Hygiene" is about cleaning yourself ... Occupational Health and Safety
puhleease

[ianek70]

Call me old fashioned, but I think crap translations are great.
Translation is an art. Sometimes you translate things completely literally (if
you don't really know the language, for example, but you've got a big
dictionary).
And sometimes you interpret things a bit more creatively and loosely, like the
folks who do the Polish subtitles for BBC Prime, who have clearly learned
English from some dodgy American source and have never, ever been in the UK or
had any contact with British culture, and just basically have to improvise.
They tend to have problems with the 99% of Brits that don't speak RP, and the
Polish versions of Porridge, Shooting Stars, Parkinson (unless the guests are
all Americans) and that one with the impressionist are particularly amusing.
But then they're still better than the Wyborcza, which describes Eastenders in
its Friday TV guide as a "komedia angielska".

[usenetposts]

ianek70 napisał:

> Call me old fashioned, but I think crap translations are great.
> Translation is an art. Sometimes you translate things completely literally
(if
> you don't really know the language, for example, but you've got a big
> dictionary).
> And sometimes you interpret things a bit more creatively and loosely, like
the
> folks who do the Polish subtitles for BBC Prime, who have clearly learned
> English from some dodgy American source and have never, ever been in the UK
or
> had any contact with British culture, and just basically have to improvise.
> They tend to have problems with the 99% of Brits that don't speak RP, and the
> Polish versions of Porridge, Shooting Stars, Parkinson (unless the guests are
> all Americans) and that one with the impressionist are particularly amusing.
> But then they're still better than the Wyborcza, which describes Eastenders
in
> its Friday TV guide as a "komedia angielska".

They probably remembered Babs Windsor from the Carry On Films and got confused.

[ianek70]

ianek70 napisał:

> folks who do the Polish subtitles for BBC Prime, who have clearly learned
> English from some dodgy American source and have never, ever been in the UK
or
> had any contact with British culture, and just basically have to improvise.

Well, since this thread's reappeared, the best examples are when someone
says 'bum', 'pants', 'fanny' or 'fag' and it gets nonsensically translated
according to the US meaning.
He's sitting on his bum > Siedzi na swoim kloszardzie.
Buy me a packet of fags > Kup mi paczkę pedałów.

Some more

[ianek70]

I once saw a clip of 'Citizen Smith' where the slogan "Freedom for Tooting!"
was translated as "Wolność trąbania."
And an item on BBC World about Trinidadian steel bands where the translator
obviously hadn't bothered watching the programme and knew nothing about the
Caribean, so the report was about musicians and the translation was about
bracelets.

[usenetposts]

One is reminded of the old translation at the UN of a black African delegate
who couldn't understand the laughter bwhen he told the august assembly that
Africa no longer erected altars to the gods. Later he discovered that
his "L'Afrique n'erige plus d'auteils aux dieux" was rendered "Africa does not
build any more odious hotels".

And then there was the translation of "ce qui nous manque, c'est la sagesse
normande", which came out as "What we need here is Norman Wisdom".

[marcus_anglikiem]

> Why are there so many "professional" translators who lose any remnant of
> commonsense when they start translating into English??
Same reason David Beckham may start performing dismally if you put him in
goal! A translator should (with very few exceptions, these exceptional people)
translate INTO his/her native language; the result being (it should be) that
a translation is not recognisable as such.
However, if there is a lack of English native Polish->English legal transaltors
then Poles have to do the job. it's unfortunate, but there's little one can do;
unless you start funding Polish legal training for English Polish->English
translators (or alternatively, but with a lesser chance of success), funding
training in the UK/US for Polish translators to get to grips with how to write
legal stuff in a normal English way...

[raggety]

Sorry for the late comment, I've only just come across this thread, as I've
only recently discovered this forum. I absolutely agree with varsovian's
comment about Polish translators. Few native English speakers are willing to
work for what the average translator here earns, which is why Poles do the job,
few clients are willing to pay the fee of a native English speaking translator.
And very few clients care that the English translation isn't what it should be,
as long as its comprehensible, the average Polish (or other non-English/non-
American) client can't tell what's good and what isn't and isn't willing to pay
for good quality, he just wants the job done as cheaply as possible - it
doesn't work the other way tho (I mean Eng-Pol - that has to be perfect). As
for terminology, it also depends what the client wants. It's not uncommon for
clients (or lawyers) to reject correct terminology for something more literal
so that they know what the Polish was, and they can be very resistant to
reason. Try and use "environmental health" instead of "sanitary" and everyone's
up in arms because who said anything about health or the environment?! I've
been prevented from correcting rubbish because the client is already familiar
with it and will question changes. This used to really wind me up, now I just
remind myself - klient nasz pan, and if he wants me to write that an apple is
an orange, so be it.

[usenetposts]

raggety napisała:

> Sorry for the late comment, I've only just come across this thread, as I've
> only recently discovered this forum.

Let me take this opportunity to welcome you and I hope you enjoy it enough to
be a regular and a lifer.

[hardenfelt]

If you go to a sworn translator (tłumacz przysięgły) then the main reason
should be that:
1. You want a stamp from someone who is trusted not to mingle with the
translations. This means that you can show the translation to different
authorities, and they will accept the different facts in the document without
questioning these facts.
2. You have an official document or a contract, and the target reader is a
lawyer or a public servant. These people are supposed to know how to read a
text translated by a sworn translator.

A sworn translator is not supposed to make a literary but a literal
translation. This may violate the grammar and the beauty of the language, but
the target reader is supposed to be above that. He only wants the pure meaning,
which can differ depending on the judicial framework. It’s the readers job to
get the true meaning of the document.

If you want a translation which is supposed to be read by ordinary people or by
a wider audience, then you should abstain from consulting sworn translators.
This is not their job. You need a specialist for different text types and in
many cases also subsequent proofreading, preferably by a specialist. This is a
costly process, and many translation agencies (and their clients) are – as
mentioned earlier in this thread – extremely focused on the price.

[varsovian]

The whole point is that sworn translators should not be taught incorrect
expressions on purpose.
I mean, which of the many distinguished professor morons decided that
voivodship is a superb English expression? He should be hung, drawn and
quartered!!!
And the translators guild teaches this as the correct term.
It makes me mad.
It's tantamount to hanging out a sign saying - "Here is the best Poland can do,
and it's pretty crap"
Never mind - it's all destined for foreigners anyway ...

[babiana]

On the menu of a Polish hotel:
Salad a firm's own make; limpid red beet soup with cheesy dumplings in the form
of a finger; roasted duck let loose; beef rashers beaten up in the country
people's fashion.

[chomskybornagain1]

It's worse in China. You get worse grammar and spelling mistakes fee of charge

[maria333]

varsovian napisał:

> The whole point is that sworn translators should not be taught incorrect
> expressions on purpose.
> I mean, which of the many distinguished professor morons decided that
> voivodship is a superb English expression? He should be hung, drawn and
> quartered!!!

I've heard a discussion on the subject among translators themselves.
And the general opinion was, that 'voivodship' is the most appropriate
translation for the documents that will be used in Poland, as it is easy to
refer to, and refers to the exact administrative division, whereas
e.g.'province' might be confusing.
What would be your suggestion?

[hardenfelt]

maria333 napisała

I've heard a discussion on the subject among translators themselves.
> And the general opinion was, that 'voivodship' is the most appropriate
> translation for the documents that will be used in Poland, as it is easy to
> refer to, and refers to the exact administrative division, whereas
> e.g.'province' might be confusing.
> What would be your suggestion?

There is no simple answer. „Voicodship” is definitely an English word, and
though known to few people, should be used when you translate for professional
reasons and the target reader works with administration, economy or law. In
other contexts the translation “county” might be used, but it is a very
imprecise translation. For general use, a good translation is, in my
opinion, “the Polish administrative district of XXXXX”.

[raggety]

The Oxford English dictionary spells it with an e - voivodeship.
As for "Polish administrative district", I've seen it used to refer to a
powiat. Department is a problem when wydział, oddział and departament join in.
At work we generally prefer voivodeship and voivode, poviat and starosta, and
sometimes even gmina (instead of municipality or borough) because then everyone
knows what everyone else is talking about, rather than wondering which
administrative unit "department" might be referring to, especially since many
texts go backwards and forwards - Polish to English, changes negotiated in
English then translated back into Polish, and/or vice versa.
In my opinion, the poor quality of many, many Polish translators has nothing to
do with terminology, but rather with their extremely poor grasp of the English
verb - they just don't appreciate the significance of all those tenses.

[chomskybornagain1]

if you translate województwo as county then what will do when come across powiat
in the same text? To the best of my knowledge thought the offcial translation of
województwo is province, voivodship is a that refers to Poland olny while
province is more general, same as the earl-count thing

[hardenfelt]

"Department" may also be a good translation if we only talk about government
administration at a regional level in contrast to the self-governing entities,
which should rather not be translated into “department”.

[nasza_maggie]

I have no idea what the problem is.
But, whilst being the only native speaker in one of the foreign media firms in
Poland, I was practically forces into translating, which I cannot stand.
Interepret ok, translate - forget it.

So, there I was, translating all sorts of babble, American - British - English
into Polish, and I thought I was doing well.
But OH NO - it wasn't proper english to my managers who were forever
correcting me and had never been to london or LA and only knew english from tv
or books.

Denmark from chicken

[gfunkallstars]

www.joemonster.org/article.php?sid=6324

[gfunkallstars]

I had a sworn translator at my wedding. She couldn't pronounce my maiden name
or the name of my 'best woman' She said I should be thankful for all the
children I was just about to produce and proudly used inappropriate and out of
context idioms. She had everyone in stitches.

[gfunkallstars]

Another favourite - NIK in English is "Supreme Chamber of Control"

[usenetposts]

gfunkallstars napisał:

> Another favourite - NIK in English is "Supreme Chamber of Control"

That's enough to make a person lose control of their chamber laughing!

[hardenfelt]

gfunkallstars napisał:

> Another favourite - NIK in English is "Supreme Chamber of Control"

Any organisation has the right to make a definitive decision about how their
official name should be translated into other languages. In NIK’s case, the
name dates back to 1921, and the literal translation into “supreme chamber of
control” may be considered a way of emphasising the special character of this
institution in contrast to the UK National Audit Office. When making a
translation for professional purposes the official name must obviously be
respected, whereas I agree that another term may be desirable if you want to
address a wider audience, and in that case you are free to do so. Before
ridiculing the official translation I think it may be appropriate to consider
the historical reasons as well as the constitutional and legal differences
between the Polish and the British institutions. I’m not competent to make such
a comparison, but I’m sure the translation is a result of due deliberation.

By the way, would anyone please translate the Polish term “kiełbasa”?

[babiana]

hardenfelt napisał:

>By the way, would anyone please translate the Polish term “kiełbasa”
> ;?
In Montreal's grocery chain stores the product kielbasa (I would rather say
kielbasa-resembling) is called Polish kolbasa. It is inedible for Polish natives.

[usenetposts]

"Kolbasa" is Russian.

Maybe...

[dziewczynazperla]

meatwurst? I know it is from german but if kielbasa is not a sausage, and
sausage is not parówka (or is it?)... then what are they?

BTW can you translate "pastry" into polish? Or "drożdżówka z serem" into english?

[gosiamit]

How about "Polish sausage"? But there are many types of Polish sausage - like
"kabanos." These names cannot be transalted into anything other than a
descriptive term because they are characteristoc only of this country (same with
"pierogi," "borscht" and "oscypek.)

[usenetposts]

What we are coming round to is to say that proper names shouldn't be
translated. Now if translation theory were properly taught at Polish
institutions, then we wouldn't even need to be having these kinds of
discussions with translators.

[varsovian]

My, we had some wonderful ideas there!

Essentially, a translated term should reflect the original as closely as
possible while remaining understandable to the reader/listener.

When it looks dumb, it is.
One brilliant translation is that of SGH - Warsaw School of Economics.
One dumb translation into English is the Constitutional Tribunal (a tribunal is
a low level or a military court) - everywhere in the Romance language world you
see "constitutional court". Mind you, I suppose that shows the low importance
of the constitution in Poland.
Self-governing authorities ...? Are they a law unto themselves?

[hardenfelt]

varsovian napisał:
> One brilliant translation is that of SGH - Warsaw School of Economics.

I think Warsaw School of Economics is a lousy translation, bearing in mind that
their aim is to teach practical abilities – and they are really good at it.
School of Economics smells of theory. A much better translation would in my
opinion be Warsaw Business School.

[varsovian]

I suppose if you want to be a US wannabe, instead of using European cultural
references!
Seriously, Warsaw Business School wouldn't be bad either, but I completely
disagree with you about WSE being a lousy translation - that shows you've never
heard of LSE. Disappointing level of ignorance ...

Schools of thought?

[usenetposts]

The LSE is a very prestigious business academy, but it has that name because of
historical reasons and connotations that don't necessarily apply to the Warsaw
one.

I still think that it's a bit silly calling a University or a college or
Faculty a "school" without good historical reason.

Modern English is so dumbed down and Americanised that what used to be known as
schoolchildren are 'students', and what used to be known as 'students' go
to 'schools'.

[varsovian]

I was shocked when I started working as a schoolteacher in the UK because I had
to learn lots of new vocabulary. I missed my first meeting of Year 7 tutors
because it was called a "Team Meeting" - so I thought it had something to do
with either football or rugby!

And, of course, 'pupils' became 'students' and 'children' became 'young
adults'. This must have something to do with them being taught less and not
being discouraged by the system from misbehaving.

All of this feeds back into the theme that language (and translation) is about
making yourself understood, and not primarily about showing the other person
just how brilliant you are by using words and expressions which either mean
nothing to him/her or simply appear bizarre and wrong.

Sausages, dumplings and ripe peaches

[ianek70]

gosiamit napisała:

> How about "Polish sausage"? But there are many types of Polish sausage - like
> "kabanos." These names cannot be transalted into anything other than a
> descriptive term because they are characteristoc only of this country (same
wit
> h
> "pierogi," "borscht" and "oscypek.)

Pierogis, kluski, kopytka, knedle and more or less anything of that ilk is
translated as "dumplings" in Polish/English dictionaries.
In Scotland, a dumpling is a large, round, gloriously fruity thing which is
often produced at special occasions and is most appreciated when warm. So
referring to a Scottish woman's breasts as 'dumplings' is a great compliment.
In certain regions, such as Silesia and England, this is only averagely
romantic.
And I realised I'd made a faux pas when my girlfriend's mother served me my
long-promised kluski z makiem and I discovered that in the Kraków area kluski
means some kind of shapeless, tasteless spaghetti.

Anyway, what's haggis in Polish?
Or square slice? It's like sausage (as opposed to links) except quadrilateral.

[varsovian]

I thought you were going to say something about your girlfriend's mother's
breasts then. Phew!

Square slice - err what pray tell is that? Sausage meat in squares??
My wife has just taken to baking apple pie, English-style. Yummy. I used to
love apple charlotte, but overdosed and need a break!
Other home-made delights are marmalade (various) and jellies - mint, apple and
mint, cranberry, cranberry and chilli. Hmmm.

[usenetposts]

One thing I miss this time of year from Britain - mince pies.

[kylie1]

> Anyway, what's haggis in Polish?

I don't know but I am just finding out what it is in English. I have NEVER had
one before but frankly I am not sure I want to ... Not only it sounds gross in
itself, it's all wrapped in sheep intestines or its own stomach. I love exotic
but that's just a tad too much.