Learning Polish...

[amores_perros]

Hello everyone,

my name is Ewa (I'm from Poland) and I have a question for those of you who
are learning Polish.
First of all, what do you find the most difficult in our language?
Do you like learning Polish at all - or perhaps you try to speak Polish only
because you want to communicate with Poles (and you don't believe them to
speak any foreign language? What kind of excercises are the most useful for
you (for example - would you like learning vocabulary using short rhymed
texts)? Are you at all interested in Polish culture?

I'm asking all these questions, because I'm thinking about opening a blog (or
simply a website), containing some information, tips, exercises etc. for
foreigners (and I want it to be extremely useful for readers I've been
teaching Polish to foreigners for some time and I've noted that there are only
few helpful websites for them. If you put the prase "Polish for foreigners" in
the Google, the vast majority of the results will refef to advertisements of
language schools (whereas there are so many websites containing informations,
tests and exercises of other languages!).

So - what do you think about this idea? Would you be interested in "taking a
sip" of Polish every day? I don't think that this blog could replace any
regular course (nothing compares to practise!) - I'm just thinking about
giving some additional information for those of you who want to know a bit
more of Polish.

[hardenfelt]

amores_perros napisała:

> Hello everyone,
>
> my name is Ewa (I'm from Poland) and I have a question for those of you who
> are learning Polish.
Hi

> First of all, what do you find the most difficult in our language?
A good and experienced teacher would know that substantially better than the
students.

> Do you like learning Polish at all
I like using my brain, but I didn’t receive any special revelations from
learning polish.

- or perhaps you try to speak Polish only
> because you want to communicate with Poles
That's right

(and you don't believe them to
> speak any foreign language?
They don't

What kind of excercises are the most useful for
> you (for example - would you like learning vocabulary using short rhymed
> texts)?
It is very good for children and also for adults in connection with
professional logopedic exercises

Are you at all interested in Polish culture?
I like drinking vodka.

>
> I'm asking all these questions, because I'm thinking about opening a blog (or
> simply a website), containing some information, tips, exercises etc. for
> foreigners (and I want it to be extremely useful for readers I've been
> teaching Polish to foreigners for some time and I've noted that there are only
> few helpful websites for them.
Definitely less than for other major languages. But there are quite a few. I’ll
return to this when I become sober. Right now I'm studying Polish culture.

[usenetposts]

hardenfelt napisał:

> amores_perros napisała:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > my name is Ewa (I'm from Poland) and I have a question for those of you w
> ho
> > are learning Polish.
> Hi
>
> > First of all, what do you find the most difficult in our language?
> A good and experienced teacher would know that substantially better than the
> students.

Hardball, but true.

>
> > Do you like learning Polish at all
> I like using my brain, but I didn’t receive any special revelations from
> learning polish.
>

Really? Not even the inklings of one? I was just inches away from a Grand
Unified Theory when I mastered the unvoiced fricative voiced plosive. But then
I realised I had to "stop". (groan)

> - or perhaps you try to speak Polish only
> > because you want to communicate with Poles
> That's right
>
> (and you don't believe them to
> > speak any foreign language?
> They don't
>

Well, some do, but they want paying double for their work.

> What kind of excercises are the most useful for
> > you (for example - would you like learning vocabulary using short rhymed
> > texts)?
> It is very good for children and also for adults in connection with
> professional logopedic exercises
>
> Are you at all interested in Polish culture?
> I like drinking vodka.
>
> >
> > I'm asking all these questions, because I'm thinking about opening a blog
> (or
> > simply a website), containing some information, tips, exercises etc. for
> > foreigners (and I want it to be extremely useful for readers I've been
> > teaching Polish to foreigners for some time and I've noted that there are
> only
> > few helpful websites for them.
> Definitely less than for other major languages. But there are quite a few. I
> 217;ll
> return to this when I become sober. Right now I'm studying Polish culture.
>

Sometimes the bottom of a glass is the best lens for that activity.

[hardenfelt]

usenetposts wrote:

> Really? Not even the inklings of one? I was just inches away from a Grand
> Unified Theory when I mastered the unvoiced fricative voiced plosive. But
then
> I realised I had to "stop". (groan)

Well – I do admit, being able to saying „żaba” was even better than visiting
Gosia at Hotel Saigon in Wroclaw. Even though Gosia taught me a lot of
interesting vocabulary she was never able to make me pronounce voiced
fricatives. But I find it’s easy to stop.

Anyway I’ve never met someone from Polish philology who was able to teach you
these sounds unless they had an appropriate post-graduate course in logopedics.
The point is, when you are as old and stupid as I am, then you need someone who
can actually teach you the techniques. That’s why I prefer speech therapists
who are after psychology to those after philology. The ones who finished
philology are just not therapists and they are unable to learn the techniques
of efficient therapy (generally speaking – off course).

I know you will disagree with me, David, but please be aware that only a very
small fraction of language learners finished linguistic studies in a relatively
young age (and by the way I also consider you a natural talent when it comes to
languages). They have no idea how to create these funny sounds. And when it
comes to syntactic they have nor idea why narzędnik was invented (or the rest
of the case system by the way). You just can’t expect this kind of
understanding from adults, unless they’ve done the tool subjects.

[mari88]

Hi Ewa,
i'm from Holland, and just began to learn Polish.

the most difficult:
- the construction of a sentence.
- too much 'szcz', 'zctk' etc. in one word (sounds you are not used to)

do you like learning Polish?
- yes

perhaps you try to speak Polish only
because you want to communicate with Poles ?
- it isn't strange that's the most important reason, don't you think?

What kind of excercises are the most useful for
you ?
- the most usefull: (except practises) old-fashioned 'drills'. (Although that's
perhaps not the most pleasant way for everyone)

Are you at all interested in Polish culture?
- don't know jet. I suppose I am.

Lots of succes with your 'helpfully-Polish-language-website'. I appreciate that
initiative!

[amores_perros]

Thanks for all your answers (more or less connected with my questions

hardenfelt and usenetposts napisali:

> > First of all, what do you find the most difficult in our language?
> A good and experienced teacher would know that substantially better than the
> students.

Well, I think that a good teacher would always compare his own experience with
his students' opinions - and would never stop asking questions.
I started with general issues (such as "what do you find the most difficult?"),
because apparently there are people of a different level of knowledge of
language on this forum.
Besides, it seems to be a huge difference between teaching Polish in practice
(which includes speaking and all sorts of spelling exercises) and preparing a
website with tips and texts leading mainly to enrich vocabulary. I think that
opening a blog that is supposed to be useful demands an earlier preparations
(including a survey). But of course if you find the survey pointless, you don't
have to take part in it.

mari88 napisała:

> perhaps you try to speak Polish only
> because you want to communicate with Poles ?
> - it isn't strange that's the most important reason, don't you think?

Of course it isn't What I wanted to emphasize was not a foreigners' will to
communicate (which is obvious), but their disbelief in the Poles' ability to
speak ANY foreign language. In other words, the main attitude among my students
at the beginning of their course may be described as: 'I don't want to learn
Polish at all, but I don't see any other way to communicate with Poles who can't
say a single word in any other language than their own!'.
I wonder if you would agree with such a statement - or perhaps you belong to the
other group, gathering people who find something interesting in Polish itself,
who want tolearn it in order to feel independent or to be able to express their
opinions properly (using diverse vocabulary) - and so on, and so forth.

mari88 napisała:

> Lots of succes with your 'helpfully-Polish-language-website'. I appreciate
> that initiative!

Thanks, it's nice to hear it.

[mari88]

amores_perros napisała:

perhaps you belong to the
> other group, gathering people who find something interesting in Polish itself,
> who want tolearn it in order to feel independent or to be able to express
their
> opinions properly (using diverse vocabulary) -

yes, exactly. I find the attitude of your students, who say that Polish people
can't speak any foreign language, 'a bit' arrogant. Actually, I met some Polish
people from my age who's English is just fine. (and yes, there are also some
that can't speak any foreign language, also/ even from my age. (18))
>

Advanced Polish

[ianek70]

amores_perros napisała:

> First of all, what do you find the most difficult in our language?

Aspects, prefixes and stuff.
Załatwić, załatwiać, pozałatwiać. Pozamykane czy zamknięte?

Poles tend to think their language is the most difficult in the world because
it's got końcówki, but the endings are generally very regular and systematic.
You can memorise them from a book.

At the beginning, hearing the difference between sz and ś, ż and ź is
difficult, and even after a longer time it can be hard to pronounce them
properly when not concentrating.
But on the other hand, although Poles love to say "Can you say ksiądz brzmi w
trzcinie?", foreigners tend to say "prosię" instead of "proszę" to shopkeepers
and barmaids and nobody seems to notice.

I bought a book a couple of years ago called "Co z czym?" by Stasiu Mędak.
There's a whole series of these podręczniki, ranging from elementary to
advanced level.
This one is supposedly advanced, but has more or less exactly the same
exercises as the beginners' books. "Replace the blanks with 'się' where
apropriate." "Replace the blanks with 'swój' or 'jego' as appropriate." "Na
stół czy na stole?"

There is plenty of material available for beginners, but bugger all for
advanced learners.
I wanted to sit a Polish language exam, and from my experience of teaching folk
for advanced English exams (CAE, CPE) I was expecting to find textbooks that
would explain the difference between wybaczyć and przebaczyć, for example.
"Nie ma przebaczenia" ale "wybacz, stary". Dlaczego?

"Polszczyzna znana i nieznana" by A. Markowski is a good book, as are most
things by Prof Miodek.
"Język polski" by A. Dąbrowska is an excellent and fascinating work, of
absolutely no practical value, but it's the only volume of the "A to Polska
właśnie" series which is not sentimental revisionist crap.
A mały słownik frazeologiczny języka polskiego is a useful thing, as is a
szkolny słownik synonimów.
"A Glossary of Polish and English Verb Forms" by S. P. Kaczmarski looks like
the most boring and pointless book on the planet (150 pages of 'I write, I was
writing, had I not been writing, was it being written') but is quite handy for
comparing use of tenses.

[hardenfelt]

ianek70 napisał:
"A Glossary of Polish and English Verb Forms" by S. P. Kaczmarski looks like
> the most boring and pointless book on the planet (150 pages of 'I write, I
was
> writing, had I not been writing, was it being written') but is quite handy
for
> comparing use of tenses.

I’ve seen quite a few of these verb-books. My one is called “tackling Polish
verbs” by Zofia Kurzowa. And I agree, they look boring but are handy. But – the
absolutely most pointless and boring book I’ve ever come across (and
unfortunately bought) is Mędaks “Słownik form koniugacyjnych czasowników
polskich”, which spends 1046 pages on repeating exactly the same thing, which
you can look up in any decent dictionary. It’s simply a crime against
environment to use so much paper on so little.

[ianek70]

hardenfelt napisał:

> I’ve seen quite a few of these verb-books. My one is called “tackli
> ng Polish
> verbs” by Zofia Kurzowa. And I agree, they look boring but are handy. But
> – the
> absolutely most pointless and boring book I’ve ever come across (and
> unfortunately bought) is Mędaks “Słownik form koniugacyjnych czasowników
> polskich”, which spends 1046 pages on repeating exactly the same thing, w
> hich
> you can look up in any decent dictionary.

Is it the same Mędak? And who needs to know the past tense of prząść anyway?
Another weird thing is all these słowniki ortograficzne, which I don't think
exist outside of Poland. Do they think normal dictionaries might give the wrong
spelling?
Polish orthography is extremely logical, simple and regular, especially
compared to English, French, Danish or Gaelic spelling, so why do they
constantly moan about it?
"Trudno jest u nas. Kochamy papierza czy kohamy papieża?"

[hardenfelt]

ianek70 napisał:
> Is it the same Mędak?
It’s the very same Mędak from Kraków who wrote “co z czym” and a whole range of
other useless books.

> Another weird thing is all these słowniki ortograficzne, which I don't think
> exist outside of Poland.
We do have one słownik ortograficzny for Danish. It’s
called „Retskrivningsordbogen” and it’s made by the official Danish Language
board. The purpose is to halt any changes to written Danish for at least 50
years, thus making it much more difficult for Muslim terrorists to learn
Danish. Thus “ja” in Danish is spelled “jeg, “ik” is spelled “ikke and “ku” is
spelled “kunne”. As I make a living from teaching Danish I’m very happy that
it’s not too easy.

[deszcz8106]

> Polish orthography is extremely logical, simple and regular, especially
> compared to English, French, Danish or Gaelic spelling, so why do they
> constantly moan about it?
> "Trudno jest u nas. Kochamy papierza czy kohamy papieża?"

i think it may well be something in the way they learn their language...
i'm not sure what. perhaps an expert on the learning of spelling with
a knowledge of the systems used in Polish education could enlighten us ?

[margaretka2002]

Chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie... (nie ksiądz).

[ianek70]

Ksiądz grzmi w Szczecinie.

[asiaasia1]

Ksiądz grzmi w Szczecinie.
Thanks! I will use this one

[bengateau]

Hi Ewa,

I just started learning it, and my impression sare:
1. Reading is quite difficult. As someone mentioned previously, too many szcz
and such. I also heard that grammar is a bitch to learn. I am trying to speak as
much as I can, and I hope to pick grammar up on the way.
2. Sometimes I hate to learn it because I feel like a retard, sometimes I like
when I understand something. It's love-hate all the way. Yes, primarily I'm
learning so I can communicate with Poles.
3. Yes, very interested in Polish culture (trying hard not to put some lame
yoghurt joke here, as I was on receiving end so many times )

Good luck with your blog, it would be useful for many of us. Let us know the
address once it's up and running!

Cheers, Ben

[ania.polka.dot]

Hello,
I think most people have problems with pronunciation and Polish grammar because it is complicated. If someone starts their adventure with the Polish language, it can be difficult for them. But by using good materials and studying regularly, you can achieve spectacular results. I recommend the Instagram profile of Online Polish Courses (Tekst linku) and visiting the website (Tekst linku) , where on the blog there are interesting entries about the Polish language.