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A lost opportunity

29.10.06, 09:31
I applaud the statement of the Polish government that it will not be issuing
restrictions on the influx of migrant labour from Romania and Bulgaria when
they join the EU.

But the fact that the Romanians and Bulgarians will not get into the labour
markets of the old 15 and Poland and the other post-communist members will
not get into 12 of them for sometime outlines once again how there are double
standards in Europe, and how human rights are not granted equally to all
members of the EU.

But that should have been foreseeable, had the leaders of this eastern part
of Europe not allowed themselves to be duped.

We ought to have created our own bloc, as an example to unity towards the old
EU. We should have had treaties amongst ourselves from Estonia right through
to Bulgaria allowing the basic rights of the treaty of Rome. As it is, we get
all the bad sides of the EU - it's regulations, etc, but we don't get the
rights.

We got bribed off with the promise of grant money, but the old EU isn't even
honorable enough to pay off its bribes properly.

Romania and Bulgaria should look out. But we will do our best to get all the
money, build a strong economy in spite of politicians and ministries, and we
will be happy to take the best brains of the south east and drain them like
the west has drained us.
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    • hardenfelt Re: A lost opportunity 29.10.06, 10:44
      usenetposts napisał:

      > I applaud the statement of the Polish government that it will not be issuing
      > restrictions on the influx of migrant labour from Romania and Bulgaria when
      > they join the EU.

      So do I.

      > But the fact that the Romanians and Bulgarians will not get into the labour
      > markets of the old 15 and Poland and the other post-communist members will
      > not get into 12 of them for sometime outlines once again how there are double
      > standards in Europe, and how human rights are not granted equally to all
      > members of the EU.

      The European countries are democracies. This means the electorate has to
      approve of what the politicians do, if not they’ll be ousted. This is a very
      complicated process as people are generally afraid of anything new and unknown.
      That’s why some governments have to introduce such measures in order to calm
      down their voters. In Germany’s case it could also be argued that they alone
      took the enormous task of financing the DDR integration into the Federal
      Republic.


      But that should have been foreseeable, had the leaders of this eastern part
      > of Europe not allowed themselves to be duped.

      ????????????????????????????????????????????????????


      We ought to have created our own bloc, as an example to unity towards the old
      > EU.

      They tried. But it's difficult without money and strong institutions. And it
      takes time to build the neccessary institutions.


      As it is, we get
      > all the bad sides of the EU - it's regulations, etc, but we don't get the
      > rights.

      We get all the rights. There is a transition period. This is quite normal that
      the partners want time to adjust to the new situation.

      The EU regulations is a blessing for all of us. They are a guarantee against
      bad lawmaking in the member countries and they ensure a truly common market.
      The process is highly democratic and diligent, something you cannot say about
      Polish law making process.


      > We got bribed off with the promise of grant money, but the old EU isn't even
      > honorable enough to pay off its bribes properly.

      It’s called solidarity. And they do pay, but the EU also demands something to
      make sure the money is not wasted. It’s quite a healthy approach.


      • usenetposts Re: A lost opportunity 30.10.06, 11:00
        The best way of making sure that money and help spent on somebody is not wasted
        is to invite them among you, to work in your factories, to send their kids to
        your schools, and let them then take back what they earn and learn.

        Sending money, regardless of all the red tape, contracting and formfilling and
        audits involved in it since 1992, over which lawyers and accountants are the
        only ones to profit, is no way to encourage social cohesion.

        Idiot Barroso, one year ago, rewarded the Paris rioters with a promise of money
        being spent on them. So it's no surprise and largely thanks to Idiot Barroso
        that buses have been being torched in Paris these last couple of weeks.
        • hardenfelt Re: A lost opportunity 01.11.06, 19:54
          usenetposts napisał:

          > Idiot Barroso, one year ago, rewarded the Paris rioters with a promise of
          money

          David - Jesus was a rioter. Who are you to judge who is right and who is wrong?
          Pilsudski was a rioter, so was Margereth Thatcher. Sometimes we need people who
          dare oppose.
          • marcus_anglikiem Re: A lost opportunity 01.11.06, 22:33
            surely that depends on the WAY in which they protest?!!! you can't compare
            burning people alive (remember the woman (an immigrant herself i believe) who
            was left with 70% burns by these people who seem to forget their morals ) with
            anything ever done by Jesus, Thatcher or Pilsudzki???
          • usenetposts Re: A lost opportunity 14.11.06, 12:50
            hardenfelt napisał:

            > usenetposts napisał:
            >
            > > Idiot Barroso, one year ago, rewarded the Paris rioters with a promise of
            >
            > money
            >
            > David - Jesus was a rioter. Who are you to judge who is right and who is
            wrong?

            Jesus was not a rioter at all.

            >
            > Pilsudski was a rioter, so was Margereth Thatcher. Sometimes we need people
            who
            >
            > dare oppose.

            Margaret Thatcher was not a rioter. I don't remember Maggie burning cars.

            If you and Barroso need people to burn out cars and buses, then maybe you
            should go on a joint holiday to the Middle East when people have got their
            dander up about Mohammed cartoons. Just tell them you are Danish, and I dare
            say they will dare to oppose you in the needed fashion.

            On a related point, I see that the Mayor of Copenhagen has dared to oppose the
            so-called Christiania now. I think he wanted to levy taxes on triple parent
            families, or something.
      • usenetposts Re: A lost opportunity 30.10.06, 11:11
        And then you say that Germany financed the entry of the DDR into the EU. This
        is true in the sense that they paid the cash for most of it, but two things
        need to be borne in mind.

        1) Germany's contribution to the EU's fund was then reduced to account for it.
        That is the same as if the money had been given by the EU, just with another
        construct put on it so that people wouldn't get upset in the countries that
        suffered at their hands. Including yours, incidentally.

        2) Germany joined the EURO with a lot of false Public accounting going on
        covering up the difficulties the Mark was really having with the Reunification.
        Once the true deficit came out into the open Germany was told off for having
        weakened the EURO, but no action was taken. In this case Britain and Denmark
        actually did not pay for that portion of reunification, but Holland and Belgium
        did.

        Why do you suppose that in a place like Holland before the EURO I used to drive
        through on the way to the UK and I used to stop off and eat in the Eindhoven
        area - you could usually find a fine restaurant with good food in generous
        portions and I have to say exemplary service. The Dutch are really pretty good
        at customer service, and this shows even in the small bars and restaurants. It
        used to cost something like 30 NLG to have a decent meal, which was pretty
        cheap. The NLG then went into the EURO at an exchange rate of something like
        2.2 NLG = 1 EUR, if I remember right. Imagine my surprise when, only one year
        later, in the same places I used to go I was seeing the same prices for the
        same dishes, only with a different currency symbol on the front. And somehow
        this huge inflation got eaten away in the statistics and the government behaved
        like nothing was the matter.

        But in this way they paid their bit for the reunification of Germany.
        • speer Re: A lost opportunity 01.11.06, 22:21
          Romania and Bulgaria shouldnt join EU. Its a pity that EU does not listen to
          voice of citizens!
          • ianek70 Re: A lost opportunity 02.11.06, 09:17
            speer napisał:

            > Romania and Bulgaria shouldnt join EU. Its a pity that EU does not listen to
            > voice of citizens!

            If the EU had listened to the voices of its citizens then they wouldn't have
            let Poland join either.
            • usenetposts Re: A lost opportunity 14.11.06, 12:51
              ianek70 napisał:

              > speer napisał:
              >
              > > Romania and Bulgaria shouldnt join EU. Its a pity that EU does not listen
              > to
              > > voice of citizens!
              >
              > If the EU had listened to the voices of its citizens then they wouldn't have
              > let Poland join either.


              It was a small majority voting, and of them a small majority wanted to join.
              Only a minority of the people with votes actually voted to join.

              Had that been listened to, perhaps they wouldn't have bothered joining.

              Then at least we would still be able to get a plumber in this country.

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