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Hey, polish, let's face the truth

IP: 62.244.42.131, 62.244.42.* 02.04.01, 18:23
A colleague of mine, who knows polish, says you are discussing Ukraine and our
matters. You are welcome. But let me tell you something.
The wllbeing of Poland is rooted in the Ukrainian corruption/ You should pray
for presidents like Kucma and Kravchuk, who has for ten years alredy allowed
you to rob our country.
You just make a try and spend an our at the Ukrainian/Polish border. What can
you see there? Thousands of cas, busses, vans and trucks coming to Poland with
thosands of dollars each and the same traffic coming back with hundreds
thousands of tons of Polish products. And all of these goods are - smuggled
(przemyt). Allthiis smuggle makes nothing but ruins our economy.
If this smuggle stopped, the half of your economy would stop either. Any decen
President would have done it long ago. But not Kucma. Who makes us -
Ukrainians - pay for your wellbeing. Your President Kwasnjewsky knows this
pretty well. That's the main reason - why Poland does not introduce the visa
system for all Ukrainia smmuglers.
So. next time be ready to kiss Kuchma's hands, and taking a trip to some
foreign resort or bying a new car or a hous, please remember, that it has been
payed for you by Ukrainians.
Hope, this would not last forever. But if ever Ukraine falls into Russia's
embrace, do remember that this is your foult either. You have done everything
to make Ukraine poor and week. So, be ready to repent. if you cannot limit your
greediness, this will be done either by the new Ukrainian President or by ...
Putin.
So, take care.

Myckola
Obserwuj wątek
    • Gość: wlodek The truth is somewhere else, my Ukrainian friend IP: *.lodz.cvx.ppp.tpnet.pl 03.04.01, 00:47
      Hi Max. That was a very interesting experience to read Your article.But the
      only conclusion I have from it is that You really know nothing about Poland and
      its economy.The trade relations between our countires do not ammount for more
      than 10% of our trade relations.So while certainly Ukraine is an important
      trade partner for us ,we don`t depend on You(that is Ukraine) so much as You
      suggest.Do You really belive that my car was bought for Your money? That`s
      pretty surprising for me.I didn`t know that!I have never been to Ukraine and
      still my well-being is dependent on You-poor Ukrainians, and not me- myself and
      the ten years of a really hard economic transision.Learn some economy,make Your
      national economy more competitive and use Ukrainian enormous recources
      (natural,intellectual,strategical etc.) so that Ukraine becomes a self-
      dependent state with a strong market-oriented economy.
      As for me- I don`t feel like a bloodsucker of the poor Ukrainian
      people.Everything I have I owe to my hard work and to the Poland`s efforts to
      estabilsh a good-working capitalist economy. You should learn from countries
      like Poland, instead of complaining. Everything is up to the Ukrainian
      people.So get to work and change Your country from within.
      With respect
      Wlodek
    • Gość: of world Re: Hey, polish, let's face the truth IP: *.as2.cle.oh.nolnet.net 03.04.01, 05:00
      Mykola,
      Your problem is that you do not know much about Ukraine or Poland. It is good that Poland is
      separated from Ukraine. An they should stay separated. But do not knock the trade between the two
      countries. Ukrainians do not only spend dollars in Poland, they sell goods, clothes, shoes, cooking
      utensils, vodka, wine et c. I also know that Poles sell good in Ukraine. Thousands of Ukrainians work
      in Poland. True only three months at a time, but they earn money in Poland and take the money back
      home to Ukraine. In Krakow go to "Tandeta", many sales' stand attendands do not speak any Polish,
      only Ukrainian. Poles buy their goods without discrimination. Ukrainian problem is their government,
      from top to botom, From Kiev to the smallest village, not because of Kuczma, or other leaders, but
      because you were too long under Russian rule, since 17th century. You never had a chance to be
      independent. You are still learning democracy. Give yourselves another 20 to 30 years, you will be on
      a par with the rest of the world. One more generation of people and you will be there. You need
      Poland and Poland needs you, regardless of how much you hate each other. Think about this
      logically, over 80 million Germans on the Polish side and close to 200 million Russians on your side
      or to the north of you. 38 million Poles in one country and and 50 million Ukrainians in another sitting
      between the two monster countries. Ekonomically and militarily the 88 million Poles and Ukrainians
      stand a much better chance between the two monster countries. In the forseeable future the
      possibility of war between any of these four countries in any combination will be all but non existant.
      The biggest problem is economy, in particular export. Poland suffers from German, Dutch, British,
      Italian and some American exports. Get together with Poles by any means possible and force the
      Germans, Americans, Italians, Dutch and others to build factories in Ukraine, in Poland, so that
      people have work. How do you do this.? Check out Brazil. Yes Brazil. Outside of Germany, Brazil has
      the largest system of Volkswagen factories in the world. The same thing is true withe General Motors
      of The United States in Brazil. The Brazilians simply told the "Biggies" at one piont in time, no more
      imports. You want to sell your goods in Brazil, make them in Brazil! How many General Motors
      factories, or Vlksvagen Factories are there in Poland or Ukraine? Ukraine economically joined with
      Poland, Chech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania can accomplish the same, and much, much,
      more. I was in Poland and in the Ukraine last year, and a year before. I worked in Amercan factories in
      Brazil on and off for about 15 years. I hated the Brazilians for tying up some of my projects for months,
      because I needed parts and machines to conclude the projects, and the Brazilians would not let me
      import those in to their country, but I admired these same Brazilians for the way they were fighting
      back the onslaugh of foreign imports into their country and succeeding. Just a thought, a suggestion
      for some of you, still fighting as in the past, the Poles, the Ukrainians, the Lithuanians, The
      Belorussians et c.
      • Gość: Myckola Re: Hey, polish, let's face the truth IP: 62.244.42.131, 62.244.42.* 03.04.01, 18:07
        Of World, thank you for your response. I agre with almost everything. (If you
        pllease, reade my response to Vlodek)
        But, I doubt Ukraine might be with Poland togethe. Would you agree, that the
        Polish on the whole do not respect Ukrainians? If yes, what friendship can we
        speak of?.. Remember the childhood? To make friends with somebody you often had
        to fight - at first. To make that someone respect you. Usually that resulted in
        a very strong friendsip.
        For Ukraine to survive/ it has to "fight" in some way. Both with Russia and
        Poland (USA, Germany, Japan (the Biggies) as well). It (Ukraine) has to prove
        its right for existance, respect and friendship.
        I like the challenge. But how can you imagine Kuchma like it?
        With respect.
        Myckola
        • Gość: wlodek to myckola IP: *.lodz.ppp.tpnet.pl 03.04.01, 23:09
          Hi Myckola.I`m really surprised.How can You say that
          Ukraine must fight with all its neighbours?Isn`t
          cooperation better?I agree with You that the
          Ukrainians are not the most respected people in
          Poland,but the same thing could be said about the
          opinion Ukrainians have on Poland.As neighbours and
          countries with a long and common history that`s
          obvious that there are some tensions between us.But
          please belive me that most of my friends and me myself
          have warm feelings towrdas Ukraine and its
          people.Ukraine is not a lone island and it most take
          painstaking efforts to become a stron and
          internationally respected state.The same task lies
          ahead of Poland.So let`s work together and make
          friends.It`s time to change all the hostility that`s
          between us into friendship!
          Pozdrawiam
          wlodek
    • Gość: ivan Jesli by nie bylo przemytu to byscie latali nago. IP: *.orlando-02rh15rt.fl.dial-access.att.net 03.04.01, 16:18
      Jesli by nie bylo przemytu o kturym
      piszesz to byscie latali nago.

      >...coming back with hundreds thousands of tons of Polish products.
      >And all of these goods are - smuggled (przemyt).

      ========================================
      Gość portalu: Max napisał(a):
      > You just make a try and spend an our at the Ukrainian/Polish border. What can
      > you see there? Thousands of cas, busses, vans and trucks coming to Poland with
      > thosands of dollars each and the same traffic coming back with hundreds
      > thousands of tons of Polish products. And all of these goods are - smuggled
      > (przemyt). Allthiis smuggle makes nothing but ruins our economy.
      > Myckola

    • Gość: of world Re: Hey, polish, let's face the truth IP: *.as2.cle.oh.nolnet.net 04.04.01, 05:48
      To Mykola: Response to your second message, There is no more fighting. Only desperate and
      ignorant people still believe in armed struggle, Jews vs Palestynians, some African nations, the
      communist regime of China. Some nations in the pacific Islands, hardline Moslems like
      Taliban, maybe few others. The rest of the world is competing. Ukrainians are good working people,
      so are Poles. I saw them work together, in Great Britain, in USA, side by side. If they can work in
      harmony in other countries, why not in their own countries? Good work ethics promote good quality
      product, regardles of whether it is farming, making watches or building cars, or parts thereof. Good
      quality product is what you sell on the open world market. You do not fight your neighbor any
      more, like in the old days, you compete with him, and you compete with the rest of the world. You sell
      your product, because you know its as good as or better than that from your competitor. This is a
      much tougher war than killing. This is the fight of life not of death. There is no end to it as in death. But
      you have to have a chance to start. After World War Two, Europe and in particular Germany and Great
      britain, had Marshall Plan. The Americans financed the rebuilding of Western Europe. The same
      thing happenned to Japan, South Korea. But there was no Marshall Plan for Brazil nor for any other
      South American country. Yet they survived. They still have poor people, but they came a long way from
      the jungles of Amazon to a growing industrial power. The likelihood of a Marshall Plan in Eastern
      Europe is less than zero. This is why I used Brazil as an example country to study, in order to prepare
      you for that, which is ahead for the countries like Ukraine, Poland, Romania et c. Poles are slightly
      ahead of you, but they are faltering. Their unemployment is high and increasing. Yet import of goods
      into Poland from the rest of Europe is as high as it ever was. In order to equalize they have to export
      their goods to the western Europe. They have to close the borders to imports. There is an unwritten
      rule in world of commerce, the best is export, if one is not permitted to bring goods into a country, one
      makes the product in the country and sells it there. It is not as profitable in a short run, but it is good
      for both parties in a long run. I do not see many German factories in Poland, less in Ukraine, but I
      saw many German cars, in both countries, Poland and Ukraine, German stores in Poland, Italian
      cloths, Italian shoes, Dutch cheeses, American hospital equipment. Why not make some of those in
      a factory in Poland or Ukraine. Think about it. Better yet do something about it. Bring it up to the
      people of Ukraine or of Poland. They are the power in those countries, they vote! They elect those who
      run those countries. Take my examples here, expand on them, then send your message to the
      press, where everybody can read this. Maybe some one will wake up and take the first step forward.
    • Gość: Ziuta Re: Hey, Myckola, let's face the truth IP: *.upc.chello.no 04.04.01, 12:36
      Dear Myckola,
      It is amazing, how did you come to such conclusion !!!
      Do you really think, that polish development and well-being is the result of
      the small, regional border trade ?! ( Of course, it is in large scale, but still
      small in comparison with the all country)
      Do you really think, that polish economy depends on some ukrainian
      coster-mongers?!
      Is it not a kind of megalomania from your side ?
    • Gość: jet ok, let's face this truth IP: unknown, 194.145.96.* 09.04.01, 16:18

      A few questions:

      How much money do Ukrainians earn monthly ? 20 dollars ? 25 ?
      How many of them can afford a ("business")trip to Poland ?
      Hwo much can they spend here ?
      Did U compared prices in Poland and in the Ukraine?
      Is it really so profitable to work in Kijew and spend these peanuts -let's
      say- in Rzeszow ?
      A little bit of mathematics (instead of emotions) here, please.
      If the Ukrainian people are so wealthy, why do they steal gas from Russia ?
      It's so easy to blame the whole world for one's faults.

    • Gość: Maurycy Re: Hey, polish, let's face the truth IP: *.jeleniag.sdi.tpnet.pl 24.04.01, 09:42
      Dear Mykola,
      It is not necessary to be abusive towards the Poles. This does not make things
      any better. Poland is not dependent on the suitcase trade with Ukraine, though
      it helps the Ukrainin to survive the crisis. We had a similar situation in the
      late 80s and early 90s. Do not complain to us about your Ukrainian leaders. We
      did not elect them into these highest offices in your country, they were
      elected by Ukrainian nationals. Vox populi vox dei. We cannot influence any
      changes on people's sentiments towards "good and fantastic prosperity" under
      the communism when all the satalite countries were working for the prosperity
      of the "glorius USSR" and the Ukraine as a part of it. Instead of complaining,
      take matters in your hands, start a business, give people employment and most
      important pay them resonable wages. That way you will produce goods needed in
      Ukraine, sell them locally or if they are good enough export them. What's more
      you should educate your friends in this way of thinking. The results will
      certainly be very positive. I am not trying to preach the obvious facts of
      economics but make you aware that positive thinking very often is more
      important than negative critisism, that tries to find faults in others as the
      cause of present situation in Ukraine. It is your country and keep it that way.
      The responsibility is also yours not ours, the Poles. Forming friendship
      between our two nations should be your prime goal and you do not make friends
      that way.

      Yours sincerely,

      Maurycy, Jelenia Gora, Poland
    • Gość: maswider Re: Hey, polish, let's face the truth IP: *.citicorp.com 02.05.01, 10:52
      Cross-border trade trade is not smuggling - it is an essential part of life in
      the times of open borders. Anyone would prefer to buy things at home - you just
      have to have a choice and quality. It makes no sense to go to Poland and buy
      things if similar are available at home, at similar price and of same quality.
      Our economy is certainly not dependent on cross-border trade with Ukraine.

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