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Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..

02.04.06, 21:13
Pare slow o tym panu ,...

uklony

Rudolph Vrba - Auschwitz escapee dies of cancer
===============================================
One of five Jewish inmates who escaped Auschwitz and who subsequently warned
of the presence of Nazi death camps during World War II succumbed to cancer
in Vancouver this week at the age of 82,
============================================================================
Historical documents confirm that Jewish leaders in Slovakia, Hungary,
Switzerland and elsewhere knew by May 1944 what was happening in Auschwitz,
but they did not warn the approximately one million Hungarian Jews who were
slated for slaughter, he said.

Instead, Vrba claims, they used the information to “organize a train of 1,700
[Hungarian Jews] that travelled to Switzerland.”

www.cjnews.com/viewarticle.asp?id=5413
============================================================================

Krasnansky was impressed by the escapees' 'wonderful memory', and for two
days he cross-examined them on the 'reality' of Auschwitz. Then, after
providing them with false Aryan papers, he sent them for safety to the town
of Lipovsky Mikulas. (13)

Using Council documents brought specially from Bratislava, Krasnansky checked
the escapees' account of the arrival of trains from Slovakia to Auschwitz
with the Council's own statistics of the departure of these trains from
Slovakia to their previously 'unknown destination'. Then Krasnansky wrote a
covering note to their report, stating that it contained 'only what one or
other, or both, experienced, witnessed, or had knowledge of directly'.
Krasnansky added:

The statements coincide with the reports, undoubtedly only fragmentary, but
reliable, that have been received up until now, and the information supplied
on individual transports corresponds exactly with the official listings.
Hence the statements are to be considered as completely authentic. (14)

The question was now discussed in Bratislava: what was to be done with this
Vrba-Wetzler report? According to Krasnansky, he himself wrote it out in
German, and gave it to a typist, Gisi Farkas, who made several copies. 'One
copy', he later recalled, 'we sent to Istanbul. But it never arrived there.
The man to whom we gave it, who was making the journey, had been sent from
Istanbul as a "reliable courier". But possibly he was a paid spy. As far as
we later learned, he gave it to the Gestapo in Budapest'.

Krasnansky handed a second copy of the report to the Slovak Orthodox rabbi,
Dov Weissmandel who had contacts with the Orthodox community in Switzerland,
and who offered to try to smuggle it there, for transmission to the West. (14)

A third copy was given to Monsignor Giuseppe Burzio the Papal Chargé
d'Affaires in Bratislava, who went it on to the Vatican on May 22, after
himself questioning the two escapees. But the Vatican's own records suggest
that Burzio's report only reached there five months later.' (15)

The most urgent need, Vrba and Wetzler believed, was to transmit the report
to Hungary, and to alert Hungarian Jewry to their own potential fate.
Krasnansky himself translated the Vrba-Wetzler report into Hungarian, and
prepared to give it to Rudolf Kasztner the head of the Hungarian Jewish
rescue committee, on his next visit to Bratislava.

Kasztner who made the short train journey from Budapest fairly frequently,
was expected in Bratislava before the end of April. But on April 25, the very
day on which Krasnansky was cross-examining Vrba and Wetzler in Zilina,
Kasztner and the Hungarian Jewish leadership in Budapest were receiving
Eichmann's offer to negotiate 'goods for blood': to avoid the death camps
altogether in return for a substantial payment.

On that fatal day, April 25, two events had coincided: the truth about
Auschwitz had reached those who had the ability to make it known to the
potential victims, and the offer had been made to negotiate 'goods for
blood'. Those Hungarian Jewish leaders who wished to follow up the
negotiations Were unwilling to risk the negotiations by publicizing the facts
about the annihilation process at Auschwitz. Yet that process was known to
them from April 28, three days after Eichmann's first meeting with Brand,
when Kasztner travelled to Bratislava, where he was given a copy of the Vrba-
Wetzler report, and took it back to Budapest. (16) But by then Kasztner and
his colleagues in the Zionist leadership in Hungary were already committed to
their negotiations with Eichmann, and to the dispatch of their colleague,
Joel Brand, to Istanbul. They therefore gave no publicity whatsoever to the
facts about Auschwitz which were now in their possession.

To this day, Vrba remains convinced that had the facts which he and Wetzler
brought to Bratislava been immediately publicized and circulated throughout
Hungary, many of the 450,000 Jews who were later to be deported, but who were
as yet still in Hungary, would have been stirred to resist, evade or
otherwise obstruct their deportation. Had the deportees had "knowledge of hot
ovens", Vrba later wrote, 'Instead of parcels of cold food, they would have
been less ready to board the trains and the whole action of deportation would
have been slowed down".

Not urgent warnings to their fellow Jews to resist deportation, but secret
negotiations with the SS aimed at averting deportation altogether, had become
the avenue of hope chosen by the Hungarian Zionist leaders. Their people thus
became the innocent victims of one of the countless Nazi deceptions of the
war; "a clever ruse", as Vrba himself later reflected, 'to neutralize the
potential resistance of a million people', and lie added:

Passive and active resistance by a million people would create panic and
havoc in Hungary. Panic in Hungary would have been better than panic which
came to the victims in front of burning pits in Birkenau. Eichmann knew it;
that is why he smoked cigars with the Kasztners', "negotiated", exempted
the "real great rabbis", and meanwhile without panic among the deportees,
planned to "resettle" hundreds of thousands in orderly fashion . . . (17)

www.fantompowa.net/Flame/vrba.htm
Obserwuj wątek
    • explicit Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kastnera - RIP ,... 03.04.06, 15:23
      Rozne zydowskie zrodla podaja rozne liczby wywiezionych do obozow zaglady
      wegierskich Zydow . Liczba waha sie od 450 tys do 1-go milliona , czyli
      margines bledu ponad 50 % .

      Jesli jakis gentile ma jakies watpliwosci do magicznej liczby 6-ciu millionow
      ofiar holocaustu , to to sie go zamyka za to na lata w wiezieniu .

      uklony
      • dana33 Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kastnera - RIP ,... 03.04.06, 15:43
        ale sie zalosnie podbijasz sam, rozlupaniec... na co ci przyszlo, a???
        • explicit Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kastnera - RIP ,... 03.04.06, 16:42
          Wez pod uwage dzien tygodnia , pore dnia kiedy zalozylem ten post i nie truj ,.

          Hej ciucius , zmarl zydowski odpowiednik Karskiego , zycz mu chociaz RIP czy
          cos podobnego w zydowskiej tradycji , nie musisz sie rozczulac :)

          uklony

          ==============================================================================

          ale sie zalosnie podbijasz sam, rozlupaniec... na co ci przyszlo, a???
          • rattler Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kastnera - RIP ,... 05.04.06, 15:37
            A co siem stalo z mojem wpisem ze zajonce nie musza spac z otwartymy oczamy ,
            tylko z jednem ?

            narazie
            • explicit Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kastnera - RIP ,... 05.04.06, 18:12
              Jak nie widzisz to nie ma i nie bylo - Ostatnio tak cenzorujom :)))

              uklony

              ==============================================================================

              A co siem stalo z mojem wpisem ze zajonce nie musza spac z otwartymy oczamy ,
              tylko z jednem ?
              • i-love-2-ski Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kastnera - RIP ,... 05.04.06, 19:18
                explicit napisał:

                > Jak nie widzisz to nie ma i nie bylo - Ostatnio tak cenzorujom :)))
                >
                > uklony
                >
                >musza cenzurowac,bo dana z arapkiem stoja na strazy czystosci mysli. wiadomo
                sami sa zrodlanie czysci,a jak ktos sie czyms splami to lkania w kukulczym
                jaju,czy na FS i FM siagaja zenitu. us us us ile tu antysemitow,wiecej niz
                antypolakow i cus z tym trzeba zrobic,aby nasza propagandowa szturmowka mogla
                odptaszkowac kolejny dzien na forum:)
    • 1ja Re: Pare slow o tym panu+ 03.04.06, 15:58
      Tak:
      www.eleven.co.il/article/12005/?zahav=true
    • 1ja Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 05.04.06, 15:45
      W artykule,ktory zerznales jest"Kasztner":
      "Kasztner who made the short train journey from Budapest fairly frequently,
      was expected in Bratislava before the end of April. "

      W przytoczonym prze ze mnie jest "Kastner"

      Kto to jest Kasner?
      • dana33 Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 05.04.06, 20:07
        oj ciezko idzie, rozlupaniec, ciezko.... przyjaciele podbijaja, ale mimo
        to....5 dni i 9 wpisow....
        • explicit Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 05.04.06, 21:27
          Temat tabu , ciucius , "mydlo" i zionce nie dotkna tematu z 10-foot pole , a
          reszcie choloty taki przekret nie miesci sie w wyobrazni ,...

          Ciekawostka , zaden z tej piatki , (sprawdzilem) podobnie jak Marek Edelman nie
          sprzedal duszy i nie postawil nogi w zion-raju ,... Wymowne , co ?

          Rudolph Vrba - Auschwitz escapee dies of cancer
          ===============================================
          One of five Jewish inmates who escaped Auschwitz and who subsequently warned
          of the presence of Nazi death camps during World War II succumbed to cancer
          in Vancouver this week at the age of 82,

          ==============================================================================

          oj ciezko idzie, rozlupaniec, ciezko.... przyjaciele podbijaja, ale mimo
          to....5 dni i 9 wpisow....
          • i-love-2-ski Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 05.04.06, 21:32
            explicit napisał:


            > oj ciezko idzie, rozlupaniec, ciezko.... przyjaciele podbijaja, ale mimo
            > to....5 dni i 9 wpisow....

            idzie lzej niz ty do kompa,aby pisac te same bzdety kazdemu ,ktorego ty masz na
            celowniku, ty nasza krynico madrosci.
          • 1ja Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 06.04.06, 00:09
            Wykladowco podlog w NK sztokholmskim.
            Natemat Kastnera artykolow jest ile chcesz.
            Moze nie w tym pojeciu co ty sobie uzmyslawiasz.
            Pytam sie,natomiast,kto to jest Kasner?
            Bo gledzisz,a nie wiadomo o kogo chodzi.
            Poczytaj sobie natomiast o Waffen-Brigadeführer der SS Bronislav Kaminskim.
            lub
            SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Polizei Bach-Zelewskim
            • 1ja Re: P.S+ 06.04.06, 00:14
              Stwierdzic tutaj mozna,ze twym poziomem ku-ku,nie mozesz nalezyc do dumnego i
              szlachetnego narodu Polakow.
              wypierdkiem jestes,jak widac.
            • explicit Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 06.04.06, 08:32
              Kasner , Kastner , Kasztner - Ten sam sku#wiel ,...

              A teraz sie odwal ,...
              • zbalansowany Takich Kastnerow mniejszych czy wiekszych 06.04.06, 09:04

                bylo wsrod zydow tysiace:


                Jewish Gestapo agents in action




                The following paragraphs come from a scholarly study in preparation,
                the fragments of which have been kindly made available to me by its
                authors:

                "Jewish Gestapo agents and spies were another source of danger for
                both Jews and Poles. Historian Yehuda Bauer concedes that they
                caused "tremendous damage." See Yehuda Bauer, Rethinking the
                Holocaust (New Haven and London: Yale University Press, 2001), 148.
                Mention has already been made of the case of Szaje Fastak, a Jewish
                Gestapo agent who was executed by the Polish underground in Chmielnik
                for betraying two Poles whom the Germans had arrested and shot for
                helping Jews. See Zajaczkowski, Martyrs of Charity, 136 (entry 98).
                In particular, Warsaw was infested with Jewish Gestapo agents. Jonas
                Turkow (Ionas Turkov), who describes the activities of a formidable
                group of Jewish Gestapo agents known as "Number Thirteen" (a name
                derived from their premises on 13 Leszno Street in Warsaw) [...]
                writes: "Leon Skosowski and Kenigl were very officially collaborators
                of the SD [Sicherheitsdienst, i.e., the security service unit of the
                SS] and were more often on the `Aryan' side than in the ghetto. Their
                task consisted in denouncing Jews who found themselves on the `Aryan'
                side and denouncing Poles who engaged in political [underground]
                activities." See Ionas Turkov, C'était ainsi: 1939-1943 la vie dans
                le ghetto de Varsovie (Paris: Austral, 1995), 140. Emanuel Ringelblum
                noted the case of a tireless benefactor of the Jews by the name of
                Witold who was betrayed by Josek Erlich, a Jewish Gestapo agent, and
                spent nine months in Pawiak prison. See Bartoszewski and Lewin,
                Righteous Among Nations, 31. Another Jewish Gestapo agent who
                actively betrayed members of the Polish underground in Warsaw was
                Josek Mitzenmacher, who then went by the name Józef Berdych. (This
                did not prevent him from making a career for himself in the Communist
                Party in Stalinist Poland.) See Stanislaw Wysocki, Zydzi w dziejach
                Polski (Warsaw: Ojczyzna, 1995), 144-46. In his Wolnosc w niewoli,
                195-99, 376, 398-402, 433-48, Waclaw Zagórski describes the exploits
                of Józef Staszauer, a Jewish Gestapo agent who infiltrated the Home
                Army in Warsaw and betrayed many of its members until his liquidation
                in October 1943. On February 19, 1944, a Home Army cell consisting of
                more than a dozen men was discovered by the Gestapo on Bracka Street
                in Warsaw after being betrayed by two Jewish women who had
                infiltrated the unit posing as escapees from the Warsaw ghetto; in
                reality, the women were Gestapo agents working with a 40-member group
                of Jewish agents led by Leon ("Lolek") Skosowski. Some of the
                apprehended Poles were executed. See Wieslaw Chrzanowski, Pól wieku
                polityki, czyli rzecz o obronie czynnej: Z Wieslawem Chrzanowski
                rozmawiali Piotr Mierecki i Boguslaw Kiernicki (Warsaw: ad Astra,
                1997), 140. Józef Garlinski, a prominent member of the underground
                (he was head of the security department of the Home Army headquarters
                in Warsaw), was arrested by Gestapo agents after being betrayed by
                his former schoolmate, a Jew. See Józef Garlinski, Niezapomniane
                lata: Dzieje Wywiadu Wieziennego i Wywiadu Bezpieczenstwa Komendy
                Glównej Armii Krajowej (London: Odnowa, 1987), 109. (The abridged
                English version of this book, The Survival of Love: Memoir of a
                Resistance Officer [New York: Blackwell, 1991], makes no mention of
                the nationality of the betrayer or of the fact that there were many
                Jewish Gestapo agents. Ibid., 3, 93.)[A telling omission, isn't it?
                MW]

                A similar situation prevailed in Kraków. According to one intimate
                observer, "From time to time people would disappear from the Ghetto
                in this fashion: a list was prepared by a Jewish Gestapo agent,
                Szymon Szpic, in cooperation with the OD [Ordnungsdienst (Order
                Service [i.e., the Jewish ghetto police, MW])] Commander Spira; using
                this list the suspects were pulled from their homes, usually at
                night, and delivered to the OD so that they could be transported
                early in the morning by German cars under heavy police guard, either
                to Pomorska Street [the infamous Gestapo headquarters in Krakow, MW]
                or in an unknown direction where all traces of them disappeared.
                There were many such cases. Jews disappeared and, also at the outset,
                some Poles who operated various enterprises in the Ghetto. Even I was
                included on one of those lists. … The charge against me was that
                during the night many of the Ghetto inhabitants constantly gathered
                in my pharmacy. … A very dangerous couple in the service of the
                Gestapo was the Selingers. … They collaborated with the
                Obersturmfuhrer Theodore Heinemayer, who was counselor of the Gestapo
                for political affairs. In the cafes she would eavesdrop on the
                conversations of the Germans; he would not slight any task assigned
                to him by the Gestapo. He denounced Jews who had Aryan papers and
                Poles who were in contact with the Jews." See Tadeusz Pankiewicz, The
                Cracow Ghetto Pharmacy (New York: Holocaust Library, 1987), 35, 37-
                38. After the liquidation of the ghetto, several groups of Jewish
                confidants continued to be employed by the Germans. One group
                consisting of about 20 (or even as many as 42 according to another
                report) former Jewish policemen, headed by a Jew named Blodek, became
                Gestapo confidants. Spread throughout the city, their primary, but
                not only task, was to ferret out Jews in hiding, at which they
                excelled. Another group consisted of about a score of Jews from the
                Plaszów concentration camp [of "The Schindler's List" fame, MW] who,
                in exchange for their freedom, undertook to infiltrate Polish
                underground organizations and to expose Jews in hiding. The leaders
                of these groups (Diamand and Förster, respectively) as well as some
                of their members (Julek Appel, Natan Weissman, Stefa Brandstätter,
                Szymche Spra, Mr. and Mrs. Chilewicz, and Bialobroda) were eventually
                themselves exposed in the Polish underground press and, consequently,
                most of them were done away with by the Gestapo as useless and
                expendable. See Arczynski and Balcerak, Kryptonim "Zegota", 173-74;
                Muszynski, W walce o Wielka Polske, 294 n.157. A Jew hiding on the
                Aryan side who urged a Jewish friend to do likewise heard of the
                dangers his friend feared should his family leave the ghetto in
                Kraków: "You know, there are people in the ghetto who are now in the
                Gestapo's service; they go out into the town every day and look for
                Jews hiding on false papers because they think that they will save
                their own skins that way. Even one of my colleagues at the bank, a
                man I have worked with for many years, broke down and now works for
                the Gestapo. He turns in everyone, even members of his own family,
                Not long ago he whispered to me that he knew that Basia was living on
                false papers somewhere in the vicinity of Cracow. He doesn't know you
                personally, and doesn't know your name or where you live, but he is
                looking for you and is convinced that sooner or later he will find
                you. When he does, he will turn you in. I had always thought him a
                man of honor, but the times have changed." Shatyn, A Private War, 195.
                Cezary Chlebowski and Kazimierz Krajewski describe the exploits of
                Jerzy Ripper who, as chief of the Sicherheitsdienst intelligence
                service in Lida, was responsible for the arrest of many members of
                the Home Army. See Cezary Chlebowski, Cztery z tysiaca (Warsaw:
                Krajowa Agencja Wydawnicza, 1983), 186-92; Cezary Chlebowski, Gdy las
                byl domem (Lódz: Wydawnictwo Lódzkie, 1972), 173-79; Kazimierz
                Krajewski, Na Ziemi Nowogródzkiej: "Nów"-Nowogródzki Okreg Armii
                Krajowej (Warsaw: Pax, 1997), 89, 239. In Jaroslaw, a Jew from Lódz
                by the name of Jan Rogacki, a Gestapo agent who posed as a doctor,
                organized an underground grou
                • zbalansowany A tu wspomnienia z warszawskiego getta: 06.04.06, 09:07
                  "Falsification of the Holocaust

                  Letter to the editor by Prof. Israel Shahak,
                  published on 19 May 1989 in Kol Ha'ir, Jerusalem.

                  I disagree with the opinion of Haim Baram that the
                  Israeli education system has managed to instil
                  a "Holocaust awareness" in its pupils (Kol Ha'Ir 12.5.89). It's
                  not an awareness of the Holocaust but rather the myth of
                  the Holocaust or even a falsification of the Holocaust
                  (in the sense that "a half-truth is worse than a lie") which
                  has been instilled here.

                  As one who himself lived through the Holocaust,
                  first in Warsaw then in Bergen-Belsen, I will give an
                  immediate example of the total ignorance of daily life during
                  the Holocaust. In the Warsaw ghetto, even during the
                  period of the first massive extermination (June to October
                  1943), one saw almost no German soldiers. Nearly all the work
                  of administration, and later the work of transporting
                  hundreds of thousands of Jews to their deaths, was carried
                  out by Jewish collaborators. Before the outbreak of the
                  Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (the planning of which only started
                  after the extermination of the majority of Jews in
                  Warsaw), the Jewish underground killed, with perfect
                  justification, every Jewish collaborator they could find. If they had
                  not done so the Uprising could never have started. The
                  majority of the population of the Ghetto hated the collaborators
                  far more than the German Nazis. Every Jewish child was
                  taught, and this saved the lives of some of them "if you
                  enter a square from which there are three exits, one guarded
                  by a German SS man, one by an Ukrainian and one by a
                  Jewish policeman, then you should first try to pass the
                  German, and then maybe the Ukrainian, but never the Jew".

                  One of my own strongest memories is that, when the
                  Jewish underground killed a despicable collaborator
                  close to my home at the end of February 1943, I danced and
                  sang around the still bleeding corpse together with the
                  other children. I still do not regret this, quite the
                  contrary.

                  It is clear that such events were not exclusive to
                  the Jews, the entire Nazi success in easy and continued
                  rule over millions of people stemmed from the subtle and
                  diabolical use of collaborators, who did most of the
                  dirty work for them. But does anybody now know about
                  this? This, and not what is "instilled" was the reality. Of the
                  Yad Vashem (official state Holocaust museum in
                  Jerusalem - Ed.) theatre, I do not wish to speak at all. It, and its
                  vile exploiting, such as honouring South Africa
                  collaborators with the Nazis are truly beneath contempt.

                  Therefore, if we knew a little of the truth about
                  the Holocaust, we would at least understand (with or
                  without agreeing) why the Palestinians are now eliminating
                  their collaborators. That is the only means they have if
                  they wish to continue to struggle against our limb-
                  breaking regime.

                  Kind regards,

                  [Israel Shahak]"
                  • zbalansowany Wiec kochane towazydostwo 06.04.06, 09:13


                    tak chetne do oskarzania Polakow, poczytajta sobie troszke o
                    swoich "bohaterach" zamiast wciaz nas oskarzac. Troche wiedzi na ten temat i
                    wam sie przyda.




                    Jews betraying Jews (and Poles)




                    From the same source as before:

                    "There are abundant examples of Jews being implicated in these tragic
                    events that led to the betrayal of hundreds of fellow Jews in hiding
                    and their Polish benefactors. Sometimes these Jews acted out of fear
                    but more often they simply latched on to the faintest hope, however
                    unrealistic, that they might save their own skins at the expense of
                    others. While not necessarily constituting collaboration in the true
                    sense of the word, the outcome of their deeds was the same: it was
                    lethal. A fear of fellow Jews was something that constantly pursued
                    Jews in hiding, and unnecessary contacts were avoided at all costs.

                    [...]

                    A Jewish woman passing as a Pole in Kraków did not dare take a job in
                    a factory where many Jews were employed in key positions for fear of
                    being betrayed: "the factory was an outpost of the small ghetto in
                    Kraków … The secretary at the desk, the foreman, the office manager,
                    and all the other workers were Jewish. The only Poles were the
                    teenagers out front. When I saw this, I knew I didn't dare take that
                    job. No one can spot a Jew faster than another Jew." See Rose Zar, In
                    the Mouth of the Wolf (Philadelphia: The Jewish Publication Society
                    of America, 1983), 108.

                    A Jew from Lwów who posed as a Christian in Kraków recalled: "I am
                    sure that some of my [Polish] office co-workers and neighbors must
                    have thought at times that I was Jewish. … But no one of them ever
                    reported me to the German authorities and that, in large measure,
                    helped me survive the war. … At my job at Schenker's there was a
                    pretty young woman working at the switchboard. I sensed that she was
                    Jewish, too, but we avoided admitting it to each other out of fear of
                    being betrayed under torture, should one of us ever be arrested by
                    the Germans. … There was also an older lady working there, an
                    invalid, limping with one club foot. She was Oriental-looking and she
                    claimed to be an Arab. She avoided everyone. One day the older lady
                    disappeared and a few days later the young woman was arrested as a
                    Jewess. I never saw her again. Much later I found out that the older
                    lady had been Jewish herself and had denounced the young woman as a
                    Jewess under interrogation. She had done this to save her own life.
                    The Germans had promised to let her go free if she denounced another
                    Jew. Later, she also denounced me to the Germans. The Germans had
                    obviously used her as bait." See Irene and Carl Horowitz, Of Human
                    Agony (New York: Shengold Publishers, 1992), 127, 142.

                    [...]

                    A Polish rescuer from Stanis³awów, in Eastern Galicia, who is
                    credited with saving 32 Jews, reported: "I even took in some Jews who
                    had threatened to denounce me and their kinsmen whom I was hiding if
                    I didn't help them." See the testimony of Stanis³aw (Staszek)
                    Jackowski in Lukas, ed., Out of the Inferno: Poles Remember the
                    Holocaust (Lexington, Kentucky: The University Press of Kentucky,
                    1989), 77. A Polish Christian from Warsaw recalled: "As a young girl,
                    I participated in my family's efforts to help the Jews … Several Jews
                    were temporarily sheltered in our home, then taken to other
                    locations. Five lived with us until the Warsaw uprising in August,
                    1944. When the uprising was crushed, we all went into hiding,
                    anticipating the arrival of the Soviet Army. In November, 1944, one
                    of the Jewish women we saved argued with a group of Jews and brought
                    the Germans who then killed 18 people, including her nephew and her
                    elderly sister. One man survived. He came at night to the place where
                    I and 10 others were hiding, informed us of the tragedy and warned us
                    of our own imminent danger, probably saving our lives. For us, and
                    the Jews who passed through our home, the greatest fear was that
                    someone from the ghetto would betray." See Dana I. Alvi, letter, Los
                    Angeles Times, November 6, 1994. Stefania Podgórska, a rescuer of 13
                    Jews from Przemyœl, recalled: "No sooner had they settled in than a
                    note arrived from a friend of the dentist's, a widow still in the
                    ghetto. She wanted to join them with her son and daughter-hinting
                    that if she were turned down, she might report them. Angrily Stefania
                    accepted her." See Thomas Fleming, "Stefania's Choice," Reader's
                    Digest, February 1996, 39.


                    Regina Biesam recalled her experience in Sosnowiec: "Stanis³awa Cicha
                    … at the risk of her own life gave shelter to sixteen Jews in her
                    home. I myself was among those she concealed. It was 1943. … When I
                    found myself in her home I discovered that I was not the only one she
                    was rescuing. Anyone who came at night to tap at the window of her
                    house was sure to find shelter. Some of the Jews rebelled and
                    grumbled that too many people were there already, which might lead to
                    discovery. Mrs. Cicha replied that everybody wants to live." See
                    Kazimierz Iranek-Osmecki, He Who Saves One Life (New York: Crown
                    Publishers, 1971), 128. A similar case is recorded by a rescuer from
                    Brze¿any, in the Tarnopol region, whose decision to bring in more
                    Jews met with anger on the part of the Jewish charges. (Previously,
                    these charges had insisted that no other Jews be brought to the
                    hideout.) Based on the account of Janina Drobnicka Oleksyn, dated
                    1990 (...). A similar story from the Lublin region is recorded in
                    Thomas Toivi Blatt, From the Ashes of Sobibor: A Story of Survival
                    (Evanston, Illinois: Northwestern University Press, 1997), 218. Two
                    Jewish charges from well-to-families who found shelter with an
                    impoverished Polish family in the village of Brzozdowce near
                    Chodorów, in the province of Lwów, threatened to turn in their
                    benefactors, who could barely make ends meet, unless they provided
                    them with more food. See Anita Kosza³kowska, "Czas, który nie leczy
                    ran," Nowa Trybuna Opolska, October 27, 2000.

                    Another young Jewish woman recalled that she and her brother
                    survived begging food from Polish villagers in the Lublin area after
                    several bad experiences with fellow Jews. See Sara Kraus-Kolkowicz,
                    Dziewczynka z ulicy Mi³ej: Albo œwiadectwo czasu Holokaustu (Lublin:
                    Agencja Wydawniczo-Handlowa AD, 1995), especially 36-37, 70. Other
                    accounts authored by Jews who turned to Poles for assistance after
                    being turned down by fellow Jews are found in Stanis³aw Wroñski and
                    Maria Zwolakowa, Polacy ¯ydzi 1939-1945 (Warsaw: Ksi¹¿ka i Wiedza,
                    1971), 307, 329. The cover of a Jew who had been hired to work as an
                    administrator of a Polish estate (and acquired the reputation of an
                    anti-Semite even among Poles) was exposed by a Jewish girl, herself
                    in hiding among Poles who knew her true identity. This Jewish girl
                    could not resist gossiping even when other lives depended on her
                    discretion. The Jew's employees, however, kept him on as their
                    administrator, fully aware that in doing so they were endangering
                    their own lives. See Bruno Shatyn, A Private War: Surviving in Poland
                    on False Papers, 1941-1945 (Detroit: Wayne State University Press,
                    1985), xx, 48-49. Shatyn noted the following precautions taken by
                    Jews who decided to pass as Christians: "Most important, other Jews
                    should be avoided. By this time all Jews had been officially
                    relegated to ghettos or concentration camps. Those we saw on the
                    outside either were living on false papers like us-and so would also
                    try to avoid running into friends from the past-or were working for
                    the Gestapo as informers on other Jews." Ibid., 186.

                    [...]

                    A Polish carpenter by the name of Piotr Morawski and his family gave
                    shelter to Lilka Goldberg, a young Jewish woman with Semitic
                    fea
                    • zbalansowany Albo to : 06.04.06, 09:15
                      W 1942 roku w Krakowie i okolicy zydowska policja porzadkowa OD wspólpracujaca
                      z Niemcami, z polecenia gestapo, dokonala dwóch publicznych - przez
                      powieszenie - egzekucji Polaków i Zydów. Stojace w miejscu kazni tablica i
                      pomnik zawieraja napisy oskarzajace o te zbrodnie "okupanta hitlerowskiego"
                      (tablica) i "oprawców hitlerowskich" (pomnik).

                      To krótka, nijaka ulica, na pól przemyslowa, na pól mieszkalna. Wprawdzie
                      ostatnio budowane tu sa nowe wille, ale ton nadaja nadal stare pietrowe domy,
                      nie remontowane od lat. Ulica Wodna konczy sie slepo, bo od pólnocnego wschodu
                      zamyka ja pas torów kolejowych stacji Kraków-Plaszów. Tory biegna powyzej
                      poziomu ulicy, wiec aby do nich dojsc, trzeba pokonac schody, wpuszczone w
                      niewielka skarpe. Wienczy ja wysoki obelisk, z krzyzem wytloczonym u góry.
                      Jesli rozgarnac geste chwasty, ukaze sie tablica z napisem:
                      MIEJSCE USWIECONE / MECZENSKA SMIERCIA / 7 POLAKÓW / POWIESZONYCH PRZEZ /
                      OKUPANTA HITLEROWSKIEGO / 26 VI 1942 / CZESC ICH PAMIECI
                      Chyba nikt tego miejsca kazni siedmiu Bezimiennych nie odwiedza, nie ma
                      kwiatów, nie stoja znicze, tynk z obelisku odpada. A wokól - leza smieci.

                      Kto to zrobil?
                      Wydarzenia przy ul. Wodnej w Plaszowie w czerwcu 1942 wstrzasnely Krakowem:
                      byla to pierwsza publiczna egzekucja w miescie. Niemcy postarali sie, zeby
                      nabrala rozglosu, pozostawiajac na szubienicy ciala powieszonych przez dwa dni -
                      byly dobrze widoczne z okien przejezdzajacych w poblizu pociagów. Na ulice
                      Wodna ciagnely pielgrzymki. Mówiono, ze tych siedmiu to kolejarze, zamieszani w
                      akcje sabotazowa Gwardii Ludowej, której mial przewodzic sowiecki oficer Leonid
                      Czetyrko. Czy to prawda - nie udalo sie ustalic, a najlepszym dowodem jest brak
                      takiej informacji na obelisku, wzniesionym za "Polski Ludowej", której zalezalo
                      przeciez na kazdej prokomunistycznej propagandzie. Do dzis n i ez n a m y tez
                      nazwisk ofiar. Ale przypadek zrzadzil, zez n a m y o k o l i c z n o s c i e g
                      z e k u c j i, a te sa ogromnie bulwersujace!
                      1 wrzesnia 1948 wiceprokurator Sadu Okregowego w Krakowie i czlonek Glównej
                      Komisji Badania Zbrodni Hitlerowskich w Polsce, dr Wincenty Jarosinski
                      przesluchal w charakterze swiadka dr. Dawida Schlanga, syna Arona i Anny,
                      wyznawce religii mojzeszowej, z zawodu adwokata. Oto fragment jego zeznania,
                      dotyczacy egzekucji przy ul. Wodnej (zachowalem oryginalna pisownie - KB):
                      "Wiadomo mi, ze z koncem czerwca 1942 r. gestapo krakowskie, oddzial dla spraw
                      zydowskich, w osobach: sekretarza policji kryminalnej Willy Kunde, Heinricha
                      Oldego, rozkazali radzie zydowskiej przygotowanie sznurów oraz talku.
                      Powszechnie sadzono, ze przygotowuje sie egzekucja na czlonkach rady zydowskiej
                      lub innych mieszkancach ghetta. Równoczesnie nakazano, by cala rada zydowska
                      wraz z personelem kancelaryjnym nazajutrz, dnia, o ile sobie przypominam - 23
                      czerwca 1942 oraz wybrany przez gestapo oddzial tzw. mundurowej zydowskiej
                      policji porzadkowej (Ordnungsdienst) z jej komendantem, Simche Spira na czele,
                      udali sie do Plaszowa.
                      Wiadomo mi, ze w grupie zydowskiej policji porzadkowej znajdowali sie
                      nastepujacy czlonkowie OD. Simche Spira, Silberman, którego nazwiska nie
                      pamietam, Feiler Mojzesz, Dawid Immerglück, Leon Schleifer, Salo Rottersmann,
                      Herman Rosner, Ignacy Neiger, Herman Neiger, Szeiner Ignacy i Efroim Immerglück.
                      Na miejscu zgromadzeni otoczeni byli niemiecka policja i na przygotowanej
                      szubienicy czlonkowie OD wyzej wymienieni, z rozkazu niejakiego
                      Obersturmführera gestapo - Bächera, o czym dowiedzialem sie w tym samym dniu z
                      ust jednego z odemanów1, powiesili siedmiu skazanców, przywiezionych przez
                      gestapo autem. Miedzy powieszonymi znajdowal sie jeden albo dwóch Zydów, a
                      reszta Polaków. Z opowiadania asystujacych przy egzekucji odemanów wiem, ze
                      siedmiu skazanców przywieziono w godzinach przedpoludniowych, okolo godz. 10-
                      tej autem ciezarowym i ustawiono ich obok uprzednio przygotowanej szubienicy.
                      Kazdego ze skazanców wprowadzono na specjalnie do tego celu przygotowane
                      schodki, nastepnie jeden z odemanów przytrzymywal skazanca, a drugi nakladal
                      petle. Po zalozeniu petli inny z odemanów na polecenie nadzorujacych
                      gestapowców podrywal stopnie spod nóg skazanca, tak ze ten zawisal w powietrzu.
                      Podczas wykonywania egzekucji na jednym - inni skazancy czekali na swoja kolej.
                      Cala egzekucja robila straszliwe wrazenie z uwagi na to, ze odemani nie mieli
                      zadnej wprawy w kierunku wieszania ludzi, w zwiazku z czym zdarzalo sie, ze
                      skazaniec, którego miano powiesic, juz z samej szubienicy urywal sie i tego
                      wieszano po raz drugi. Rade Zydowska i caly personel gminy uzyto do tej
                      egzekucji w tym celu, aby wzburzyc opinie ludnosci polskiej przeciw Zydom, jako
                      rzekomym sprawcom egzekucji, a z drugiej strony, by miec "galerie",
                      przygladajaca sie tej niesamowitej egzekucji. Jako powód wykonania tej
                      egzekucji podano sabotaz kolejowy, wykonany w ten sposób, ze nieznani sprawcy
                      rozkrecili szyny kolejowe w okolicy Biezanowa2, na skutek czego wykoleil sie
                      pociag. Nazwisk powieszonych nie znam, w kazdym razie z opowiadania odemanów
                      wiem, ze byli to wiezniowie, poniewaz zdradzali slady wyczerpania i katowania
                      ich w wiezieniach przez Niemców. Wedlug posiadanych przeze mnie informacji
                      zwloki skazanych mialy wisiec na szubienicy kilka dni, ale nastepnie z
                      nieznanych mi powodów zdjeto juz je nazajutrz o godzinie 10-tej wieczór. Dokad
                      wywieziono zwloki nie wiem, ale wiem, ze zdejmowali je z szubienicy ci sami
                      odemani, którzy wykonali egzekucje".
                      Na publikowanym obok zdjeciu z ulicy Wodnej widac wyraznie umundurowanych
                      policjantów z Ordnungsdienst.

                      Ten sam scenariusz
                      Druga publiczna egzekucja odbyla sie w kilka dni pózniej, u zbiegu ulic
                      Prokocimskiej i Narutowicza, na przedmiesciu Krakowa zwanym Wola Duchacka, dzis
                      wlaczonym do miasta. W latach powojennych ta okolica ulegla gruntownym
                      przemianom urbanistycznym, totez ulica Narutowicza w ogóle zniknela, a ulice
                      Prokocimska czesciowo wchlonela potezna Fabryka Kabli. Przyblizone miejsce
                      egzekucji znajduje sie teraz tuz przy przystanku nowej linii tramwajowej,
                      poprowadzonej wzdluz nowej arterii - ulicy Nowosadeckiej; stoi tam skromny, ale
                      zadbany pomnik z napisem:
                      TU ZOSTALI STRACENI NIEWINNIE / SMIERCIA MECZENSKA / PRZEZ OPRAWCÓW
                      HITLEROWSKICH / DNIA 1.VII.1942 R. / KUZMA ZYGMUNT / KUZMA JÓZEF / GACEK
                      EDMUND / KOSZALKA JAKÓB / KOSZALKA MICHAL / BUDETTY LUDWIK / SPULA STEFAN /
                      OZGA WLADYSLAW / WLODARCZYK ANTONI / ZALUBSKI LEON / HABAJ JAN / CZESC
                      BOHATEROM!
                      Ofiarami byli w wiekszosci robotnicy w wieku od 24 do 48 lat. Poczatkowo znano
                      nazwiska tylko osmiu, potem dopisano pozostalych trzech. Tych 11 mezczyzn
                      zamordowano w odwecie "za rzekome zabicie przez Ruch Oporu wywiadowcy
                      policyjnego w Prokocimiu"3. Powrócmy na chwile do zeznan dr. Schlanga.
                      "Blizszych szczególów, dotyczacych egzekucji, wykonanej na 11 Polakach w Woli
                      Duchackiej w dniu 1 lipca 1942, nie posiadam (...). Egzekucje wykonali ci sami
                      odemani pod kierownictwem kierownika OD Simche Spiry".
                      Znacznie wiecej na temat tej drugiej egzekucji przekazala prokuratorowi
                      Jarosinskiemu Zofia Bittner, córka Piotra i Anny, wyznania rzymskokatolickiego,
                      zona kolejarza, zamieszkala wtedy przy ul. Narutowicza 88 w Woli Duchackiej.
                      Oto najistotniejsze fragmenty jej zeznania z 26 sierpnia 1948:
                      "W okresie okupacji - jakos do czerwca 1942, niedaleko mnie na tej samej ulicy
                      mieszkal, pracujacy wówczas w policji polskiej, Jerzy Orlowski. Orlowski mial
                      wsród ludnosci Woli Duchackiej i Prokocimia zla opinie i uwazano go za
                      konfidenta gestapo. Jakos z poczatkiem czerwca 1942 r. - daty dokladnie nie
                      pamietam - w nocy nieznani sprawcy zastrzelili Orlowskiego, tuz kolo mego domu.
                      Powodu zastrzelenia Orlowskiego nie znam. W zwiazku z powyzszym Niemcy
                      urzadzili na Woli Duchackiej lapanke i aresztowali kilku Polaków. Co sie z tymi
                      aresztowanymi nastepnie dzialo, tego ni
                      • zbalansowany Re: Albo to : 06.04.06, 09:36
                        History repeats
                        by kokomero Friday, Jun 18 2004, 10:57am


                        "During the Nazi occupation of Poland, while millions of Jews died, there
                        were cases of individual Jews collaborating with the Germans and informing
                        on their fellow countrymen, Jews and Poles alike. There were the Jewish
                        "szmalcowniki" (blackmailers). There was a
                        Gestapo-sponsored Jewish militia (Zagiew - Zydowska Gwardia Wolnosci, or
                        Jewish Guard of Liberty, led by Abraham Gancwajch) and the Society of Free
                        Jews (Towarzystwo Wolnych Zydow, under Captain Lontski),
                        whose members spied on the Jewish underground. There were the Jewish
                        Gestapo brigades and Jewish Sonderkommando units. There was a Jewish police
                        force (Jupo). There were camp "trusties" (Kapos), retrievers (Abholer),
                        raiders (Ordner), stool pigeons (Spitzel), scouts (Fahnder), and catchers
                        (Greifer) of Jewish descent, such as the infamous blond-haired, blue-eyed
                        Stella Goldschlag of Berlin, who
                        ferreted out and handed over to the Gestapo even her best friends and former
                        schoolmates. There were the Jewish prostitutes who worked the SS
                        guardrooms...

                        At his trial Adolf Eichmann testified that the Nazis regarded Jewish
                        collaboration as "the very cornerstone" of their anti-Semitic policy. Alois
                        Brunner, Eichmann's assistant, was credited by Simon Wiesenthal... as having
                        invented Jewish collaboration because of his fervor and success in enlisting
                        the Jews to carry out their own Shoah. According to Tadeusz Bednarczyk:
                        "Collaboration and betrayal among the Jews reached an alarming proportion in
                        the Warsaw ghetto. There was, proportionately speaking, a substantially
                        greater number of them than the number of collaborators and traitors
                        in the Polish nation and perhaps in other occupied nations... The conclusion
                        is sad. There were many Jewish Gestapo agents, traitors, "szmalcowniki" and
                        collaborators."...

                        The Jewish militia, otherwise known as Zagiew, the previously
                        mentioned "Jewish Guard of Liberty", consisted of Jewish Gestapo agents. At
                        the end of 1941 and the beginning of 1942, the Gestapo had around 15,000
                        such Jewish agents in the General Government.

                        Tadeusz Bednarczyk, a Polish resistance fighter in Warsaw and chronicler who
                        came to the Warsaw ghetto on a daily basis until April 18, 1943, commented
                        that in addition to the 6,000 Jews employed by the Judenrat in Warsaw and
                        the 2,500 Jews who joined the ghetto police, the Germans had in their
                        service over 1,000 Jewish Gestapo agents in the German-sponsored Zagiew
                        organization. Some 300 of these agents
                        continued to reside in the Gestapo premises on Szucha Street after the
                        liquidation of the ghetto and, during 1943-44, were employed in ferreting
                        out Jews... Previously these agents had hampered the smuggling of food to
                        the Warsaw ghetto and had been instrumental in organizing the Hotel Polski
                        affair, in which wealthy Jews were lured to come out of hiding on false
                        promises of obtaining foreign passports and permission to leave occupied
                        Poland. Instead they were robbed and murdered. Polish archives hold
                        documentation with an incomplete list
                        of 1,378 Jewish collaborators and betrayers. One of them, Hening, directed a
                        seventy-member team at the Gestapo premises on Szucha Street and was charged
                        with the task of obtaining information about Polish underground
                        organizations...

                        For reasons such as these, a secret Jewish court in the Warsaw ghetto
                        executed fifty-nine Zagiew collaborators. The Polish underground killed the
                        collaborators as well. So did the Gestapo - because the collaborators "knew
                        too much" and because rival Gestapo groups often killed the agents of their
                        competitors. In time, their numbers dwindled, and the remainder, together
                        with the decreasing numer of members of the Society of Free Jews, were
                        incorporated into the
                        Jewish Gestapo brigades, formed in 1941 by Hauptsturmfuehrer Alfred Spilker.
                        Spilker was appointed by Hans Frank to head up the special Sonderkommando
                        AS, which, in conjunction with the Abwehr, attempted to counter the efforts
                        of the Polish underground. Sonderkommando AS
                        consisted of groups of renegades from various nationalities. Among them
                        were 820 Jews, who formed the Jewish brigades. During the Warsaw uprising,
                        "Spilker's boys" were assigned the task of "cleansing" the areas captured by
                        the Germans...

                        Simon Wiesenthal's words provide a sobering commentary on the postwar
                        treatment of Jewish-Nazi collaborators by the very people they betrayed: "We
                        have done very little to condemn Jewish collaboration with the Nazis. When,
                        after the war, I demanded that those who had abused their office in ghettos
                        or concentration camps be removed from Jewish committees, I was told that
                        'this would diminish the guilt of the Nazis'".

                        (Tadeusz Piotrowski, "Poland's Holocaust", McFarland & Co.: Jefferson, NC,
                        1998, pp.66-67, 70, 74-75).
                  • 1ja Re: A tu wspomnienia z warszawskiego getta: 06.04.06, 09:20
                    A tu tez,kroliczku:
                    pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szmalcownik
                    pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goralenvolk
                    pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodowa_Organizacja_Radykalna
                    pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polnisches_Schutzmannschaftsbataillon
                    pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizacja_Toma
                    pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadwywiad
                    pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granatowa_policja
                    history.pedclub.ru/shoa/warsh/warsh001-05.htm
                    www.memo.ru/history/getto/Chapter1.htm
                    magazines.russ.ru/druzhba/2000/2/anninsk.html
              • 1ja Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 06.04.06, 09:11
                Explici czy szuja-czy to ma znaczenie jakie?
                Debil.I juz.
                Przestan siac zydowska propagande.
                Napisz cos o kwiatkach w ogrodku swoim.
                Czy wiosna juz przyszla?
                Ptaszki spiewaja?
                Zona do lozka sniadanie ci dostarczyla?
                Chyba,ze w barlogu przebywasz.
                A jedza od samego rana cie piluje.
                Wiec u Zydow wytchnienie znajdujesz?
                • puls.usa Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 06.04.06, 14:57
                  1ja jowy kaganiec ci zdjeli?
                  znow zaczales szczekac
                  bezzebny mosku

                  lepiej czytaj ilu twoje
                  wredne plemie
                  zdrajcow sie dochowalo
                  • dana33 Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 06.04.06, 16:06
                    nu, widzisz, rozlupaniec, jak to pracuje? jak mi ciebie albo cepa zal, ze wam
                    nikt nie odpowiada i wasze watki spadaja gdzies tam daleko, to sie wpisuje. i
                    zaraz macie najazd waszej zgraji i watek leci do gory..... a zafajdaniec ganc
                    sie zapedzil i napracowal, wklejajc tyle postow..... musze powiedziec, ze
                    jestescie pierwszoprzedni w oskarzaniu innych a jako nikak nie umiecie sobie
                    podstawic pod nos polskich zbrodni w czasie wojny, bo i takie byly, ooo byly i
                    to niemalo....
                    milego dnia jeszcze zycze...
                    • explicit Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 06.04.06, 16:39
                      Ja tobie rowniez, ciucius, a jakze by inaczej - Zanim siem wyniesiesz, do us a
                      favor, please, zabierz ze soba tego mono-jondrowego, bo nie tylko sobie obciach
                      robi, ale wam rowniez,...:)

                      uklony

                      =============================================================================

                      milego dnia jeszcze zycze...


                      • 1ja Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 06.04.06, 17:45
                        Czzyz nie mowil,ze debil i split to ...... to samo?
                        • 1ja Re: P.S+ 06.04.06, 17:47
                          Kroliczki i moski:

                          pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szmalcownik
                          pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goralenvolk
                          pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodowa_Organizacja_Radykalna
                          pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polnisches_Schutzmannschaftsbataillon
                          pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizacja_Toma
                          pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadwywiad
                          pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granatowa_policja
                          history.pedclub.ru/shoa/warsh/warsh001-05.htm
                          www.memo.ru/history/getto/Chapter1.htm
                          magazines.russ.ru/druzhba/2000/2/anninsk.html
                        • puls.usa Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 06.04.06, 22:25
                          po tobie 1ja jowy
                          splywa wszystko
                          jak po rasowym mosku
                          pluja mu w bezzebny pysk
                          a on mowi ze deszcz pada

                          czytaj co split pisze, durniu
                          mosiek moska kapowal
                          pozniej polakow
                          na koncu sam siebie
                          i swoja rodzine
                          bo do swojego zasr..konca
                          myslal ze geszeft zrobi

                          niewielu sie ten numer udal
                          jednym z nich byl kastner
                          ludobojca ktory wlasne plemie
                          na pieniadze zamienil
                    • zbalansowany Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 07.04.06, 05:16
                      Ciucka my o polskich szmalcownikach wiemy. I na ile to bylo mozliwe
                      wymierzalismy im sprawiedliwosc. I to jeszcze w czasie wojny. Po wojnie tez. Za
                      Jedwabne kilkunastu dostalo dlugoletnie wyroki. Za zamordowanie tej rodziny
                      ktora ktos tam z waszych chce ekshumowac tez kogos powieszono. Nikt nie przeczy
                      ze byli szmalcownicy.
                      To wy macie problemy z waszymi wspolpracownikami z hitlerowcami. To wy
                      rozgrzeszyliscie "calosciowo" wszystkich zydow ktorzy gorliwie wspolpracowali z
                      III Rzesza i nikt nigdy nie wymierzyl im sprawiedliwosci. Jakie wiec macie
                      moralne prawo aby domagac sie od innych panstw aby scigali jakis 90 letnich
                      ludzi za przestepstwa popelnione 60 lat temu ?
                      Jednoczesnie sami przetrzymujac Morela ktoremu zarzuca sie zabicie 1800 ludzi ?
                      Dopoki nie zrozumiecie ze prawo do osadzania ludzi odnosi sie jednakowo do was
                      jak i do reszty ludzi dopoty zawsze swiat wam (po pewnym czasie tolerowania
                      waszej bezczelnosci) dowali. Nazwij to sobie wrodzonym antysemityzmem goi, my
                      mowimy o wrodzonej socjopacji zydow.
                      • 1ja Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 07.04.06, 07:53
                        Moski,lizacze,gryzonie-a wogole kroliczki-co z tego,ze wy wiecie.
                        Kiedy sami nimi jestescie.
                        Polacy prawdziwi w domu sa.
                        I Polske prawdziwa buduja,a nie zakmuja sie zydowska propaganda.
                        A wy szczekacie tylko.
                        Czego mozna od krolikow oczekiwac?
                        A szczegolnie od lizacza,moski pulsowatej i fakira,ktory dla balansu literami
                        mysli?
                        Czy wy w ogole,czytacie prase kraju,w ktorym wam pozwolono zamieszkac?
                        Wiecie cos na ich temat?
                        Nigdy nie ma uwas wzmianki na ich temat.
                        P.S
                        Ja niczego i nikogo antysemityzmem nazywac nie bede.
                        By nim byc nalezy miec olej w glowie.
                        Kazda swolocz chcialaby sie na nia wykierowac.
                        Ale gdzie wam do Goebelsa.
                        To tak,jkby hiena chcialaby sie z lwem porownywac.
                        A wy,z pewnoscia,lwami nie jestescie.
                        Kundelki, najwyzej,
                      • dana33 Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 07.04.06, 08:02
                        hahaha..... kilkunastu mowisz ? taaaak, to naprawde duzo na te dziesiatki
                        tysiecy, ktorych tam bylo w owych czasach.... a co do jedwabnego, to nie klam w
                        zywe oczy, bo wyrokow bylo pare, a reszta korzysta z zycia i ukradzionych
                        majatkow do dzisiaj... i do dzisiaj przesladuja tych, ktorzy wtedy ratowali
                        zydow, tacy wy, polscy antysemici, wlasnie jestescie.... nawet wlasnych
                        ziomkow, ktorzy okazali sie na wysokosciach moralnych, do ktorych wy w zyciu
                        nie dojdziecie, boscie mali i parszywe charakterki macie, zmuszacie do
                        ucieczki..... oj zafajdancu..... zafajdancem smierdzacym to ty juz zawsze
                        bedziesz...
                        • zbalansowany Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 07.04.06, 08:59
                          Ciucka duzo mowisz tylko nie na temat.
                          Sa dwie sprawy:
                          1)Szmalcownicy zydowscy
                          2)Szmalcownicy polscy

                          Ja wkleilem pare watkow na temat NR 1 i napisalem co sadze o waszej podwojnej
                          moralnosci - swoim przebaczyc, gojow scigac do grobowej deski chociasz tych
                          kolaborujacych zydow byly tysiace. Jest to temat skrzetnie przez was
                          przemilczany i zamazywany. Niewielu z waszych mialo tyle odwagi zeby o tym
                          napisac. I sadze ze wasze nowe pokolenie absolutnie nic o tym nie wie.

                          Ty piszesz na temat drugi, wielokrotnie tu poruszany i dyskutowany.
                          Nigdy nikt nie zaprzeczal ze szmalcownicy Polacy istnieli.
                          Ze duza czesc spoleczenstwa polskiego za zydami nie przepada to prawda, jest to
                          wynikiem calego ciagu wydarzen i roli jaka pare tysiecy prominentnych zydow
                          odegralo w polskiej historii powojennej. Ale na dobra sprawe na swiecie wogole
                          specjalnie za wami nikt nie przepada.
                          • dana33 Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 07.04.06, 09:41
                            widzisz, zafajdancu, nikt na swiecie specjalnie za nami nie przepada, to
                            prawda, ale nas respektuje. natomiast rowniez nikt specjalnie nie przepada na
                            swiecie za polska, malo tego, pol swiata nawet nie wie, gdzie sie polska
                            znajduje no i malo kto polske respektuje. wlasnie dlatego, ze przedstawiaja ja
                            tacy ludzie, jak ty i reszta tej forumowej zgraji...
                            • zbalansowany Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 07.04.06, 09:54
                              Odpowiadasz nie na temat.

                              malo kto polske respektuje. wlasnie dlatego, ze przedstawiaja ja
                              > tacy ludzie, jak ty i reszta tej forumowej zgraji

                              Nie masz racji, o Polske sie nie martw, i o nas tez nie.


                              A tu o tym jak oczywiscie "antysemiccy" Anglicy smia oskarzac niewinny IDF o
                              zamordowanie dziennikarza. IDF oczywiscie tak jest przekonane o niewinnosci
                              swoich ze nawet nie wszczelo sledztwa w tej sprawie. Ciekaw jestem czy ich
                              dowodca tez dostanie awans na majora, jak ten dran ktory wpakowal caly
                              magazynek w 13 dziewczynke.
                              Nu, w tak wspanialym kraju mieszkasz, tylko pozazdroscic.
                              Jedyna q...a "demokracja" na BW.
                              Panie Boze Ty patrzysz i nie grzmisz.


                              www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/703355.html
                              • dana33 Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 07.04.06, 09:57
                                a to dobre, zafajdancu, to twoje "o polske sie nie martw, i o nas tez nie."...
                                moze to tak zastosujesz do siebie i przestaniesz sie martwic o israel i zydow?
                                jakby nie bylo, to ja urodzilam sie w polsce, spedzilam tam duzo lat, mam mase
                                przyjaciol, znam jezyk, historie, geografie, zwyczaje polskie.... a ty? co ty
                                wiesz o israelu i zydach, oprocz twoich wiadomosci z rense?
                                spadaj, zafajdaniec, bos zglupial juz do reszty....
                                • o_brother Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 07.04.06, 10:05
                                  u oblakana jak powoadasz znasz jezyk polski,geografie,zwyczaje,kulture
                                  a dalej jestes zakala i chamem pierwszego sorta.
                                  Widocznie zajoncowski charakterek.
                                  Siedz ty tam w tym eretzu i nie waz sie do Polski jezdzic szujo zajoncowska.
                                  • dana33 Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 07.04.06, 11:16
                                    nu, jak juz zjechales do szui, to znaczy, ze cie zapieklo.
                                    ty farsztejst, zerowiec, ja bede jezdzic do polski, kiedy mi sie zachce i
                                    wyobraz sobie, nie bede sie pytac o twoje pozwolenie. podskakuj dalej, bo to
                                    jest to, co umiesz dobrze robic. cala reszta, to w stanie oplakanym.
                                • zbalansowany Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 08.04.06, 01:07
                                  "Polske" pisze sie z duzej litery.
                                  O zydow ani o hutzpaland jakos nigdy sie nie martwilem
                                  O israelu jak wiesz wiem (historia) wiecej niz ty
                                  I moze mi wreszcie powiesz kiedy wyniesiecie sie z terenow ktorescie ukradli ?
                                  Bedzie to duzo ciekawsze niz twoje brednie.
                                  • dana33 Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 08.04.06, 13:35
                                    jestem dzisiaj, zafajdaniec, w dobrym humorze, to ci nawet odpowiem:
                                    my sie stad nigdy nie wyniesiemy. a te twoje manipulacyjki z kradzieza, to
                                    mozesz sobie darowac. nie mam ochoty na dluzsze gadania z toba, wiec nie zaczne
                                    ci wyliczac, co wszystko polska i polacy ukradli i staraja sie ukrasc dalej.
                                    • cepimierz Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 08.04.06, 13:46
                                      Zajrzałem.

                                      I tak sobie pomyślałem, że może byłoby dobrze, gdybyś nie ograniczała się do werbalnych pogróżek, że coś zrobisz, tylko żebyś to zrobiła.

                                      Więc wylicz. Co Polacy ukradli. Innym i samym sobie.

                                      I, żeby zachować minimum "zbalansowania", wylicz również, ile polski rząd już wypłacił - w latach sześćdziesiątych - Stanom Zjednoczonym na pokrycie zobowiązań wobec Żydów. Ile rząd niemiecki, przecież nie tylko niemieckim Żydom.

                                      A potem uzasadnij, dlaczego polskie sądy nie miałyby zbadać, czy były właściciel majątku żydowskiego, czy niemieckiego, ganz egal, nie pobrał już za utratę swej właśności stosownego odszkodowania.

                                      C.
                                      • dana33 Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 08.04.06, 13:51
                                        ty, cep, jestes ostatni, ktory ma jakiekolwiek prawo oczekiwac ode mnie
                                        odpowiedzi, bo sam nie odpowiadasz na moje pytania. i nie zapominaj sie w
                                        tonie, zadac to ty mozesz od siebie samego. mnie mozesz najwyzej poprosic.
                                        • cepimierz Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 08.04.06, 13:53
                                          Groziłaś, że wyliczysz, więc wziąłem Cię za słowo.

                                          A -
                                          • dana33 Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 08.04.06, 13:56
                                            przede wszystkim nie grozilam. po drugie to bylo nie do ciebie. po trzecie to
                                            ci napisalam, ze odpowiedzi ode mnie nie oczekuj, jak dlugo ty mi nie
                                            odpowiadasz.
                                            ladnie, ze prosisz.
                                            • cepimierz Proszę, wylicz 08.04.06, 14:06
                                              No, więc widzisz. Dobrze wychowany ze mnie gość. Może nie tak zupełnie gentleman z Oxfordu - ale dobrze wychowany. Ale zawsze.

                                              Więc jeszcze raz: proszę ---
                                              • explicit Re: Proszę, wylicz 10.04.06, 20:55
                                                Liczenie akurat cienszko im idzie , pyskowanie latwiej ,...

                                                uklony
                          • 1ja Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 07.04.06, 11:16
                            Kroliczku,co to jest "ciucka"?
                            Tak mama twoja u kroliczkow sie nazywa?
                            • puls.usa Re: Zmarl swiadek przekretu Kasnera ,..+ 08.04.06, 05:00
                              mowa w tym watku o zajoncu
                              ktory handlowal swoim
                              dzikim i pazernym plemiem
                              1ja jowy mosku

                              kroliczki to skacza tobie
                              w pustej lysej glowie
                              byc moze to pozostalosci
                              nie wyleczonego syfilisu
                              byc moze odgryzionego jaja
                              jak rowniez
                              jedno i drugie
                              co najbardziej prawdopodobne
                              • 1ja [...] 10.04.06, 21:46
                                Wiadomość została usunięta ze względu na złamanie prawa lub regulaminu.
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