Ukraiński tygodnik "Dzerkało Tyżnia" o wydarzen...

[Gość: Tomasz]

Przyjaźń polsko - ukraińska! Szczerze w nią wierzę i mam
nadzieję, że pewnego dnia spotkamy się w zjednoczonej Europie,
bez gniewu i nienawiści.

Dalej klamia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chimek]

Wstyd. Tu nie ma zadnego pojednania. Wyborcza to wybiorcza do
potegi entej. Ludzie, ktorzy wiedza cokolwiek na temat UPA niech
sami osadza artykul z "Dzerakalo Tyznia" jest pelen perfidnych
klamstw. Osadzcie sami:
http://www.mirror-weekly.com/ie/show/431/37668/


THE VOLYN TRAGEDY: ECHOES THROUGH DECADES

Kost BONDARENKO
(the "Expert" center for research of political processes)




The 55th anniversary of the "Wisla" [Vistula] operation - the
forced eviction by Polish authorities of 140,000 Ukrainians from
their homelands in East Poland - was marked last year. It was
widely talked and written about in the Polish press. President
Alexander Kwasniewski even wrote a letter, apologizing to the
victims of those events. This year marks the 60th anniversary of
another horrible tragedy, which the Poles call "the Volyn
massacre". And it is talked about a lot more there than in this
country. The question is whose voice will be louder
(particularly in Ukraine) - the voice of those who want to turn
this page of history, or those who wish anything but peaceful
relations between Poles and Ukrainians.

Meeting in Huta [President L.Kuchma's Carpathian residence] this
week, the Polish and Ukrainian Presidents agreed to commemorate
the victims of the Volyn tragedy. The statement they signed
announces joint steps to overcome differences in Ukrainians' and
Poles' views of their common history. "My personal position as
the Head of State is that crimes against humanity can never be
justified. The historical truth must be established. No matter
how difficult the truth may be, it should not affect
relationships between our nations," Kuchma stated. Kwasniewski
noted that his Ukrainian counterpart's position "is
characterized by respect and courage in an effort to find the
truth, however bitter it may be".

So what happened 60 years ago? And what might be its impact on
today's relationships between the two countries?


THE VOLYN TRAGEDY VIEWED THROUGH THE DECADES

The Volyn tragedy left a deep and painful scar on Ukraine's and
Poland's common history. And it will be felt at least as long as
those who claim to be its victims are alive. Both sides will
claim to be right and remind the other of the innocent victims.

Volyn is a specific region. Its forests and marshlands, its
sluggish but open-hearted and generous people with their
patriarchal lifestyle make it different from the rest of
Ukraine. Although Volyn is part of Ukraine's [traditionally
nationalist-minded and Catholic] West, it was substantially
influenced by the Russian Empire and Orthodoxy. The local
dialect is full of Russian words. The Volynians got involved
into the ethno-political self-identification process much later
than residents of other Ukrainian regions.

After WW I and the Ukrainian Revolution of 1917-1921, new
processes began in Volyn. They were caused by two major factors.
First, Volyn came under Polish rule and intensive Polish
colonization, which often aroused protests among the local
population. The Polish population had always been numerous
there, but under the Russian Empire (especially after the
revolts of 1830-1834 and 1864) the Poles were increasingly
oppressed. More and more lost their former privileges and
titles. Some were assimilated with the Russians or Ukrainians.
After 1921, Polish families began to return to Volyn from their
ancestral lands in Poland. Ukrainian peasants, who were given
land for a short time, lost it again. The Polish re-settlers
seized large areas of farmable land. They pushed the Ukrainians
out of the administration, judiciary and education. That caused
ethnic and social antagonisms: the Poles were associated with
"masters", while the Ukrainians were synonymic to "serfs".

Number two, Volyn was where the former political, economic and
military elite of the Ukrainian People's Republic was
concentrated. It was home to former ministers and military
leaders. It was where the glorious revolutionary traditions were
cherished. It was where the basis for Ukrainians' further
political activity was molded. In the 1930s Volyn experienced
massive nationalistic propaganda, when the Galychyna branch of
the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists launched an action
codenamed "Breaking the Sokal Division Line" (the imaginary
ethno-geographic and, more importantly, ethno-political border
between Galychyna [the present Lviv region] and Volyn). Within a
few years the seeds of propaganda gave rise to early crops.

In 1939, the Soviets came to Volyn with arrests, executions,
confiscations and other reprisals on the local residents who
were taken as "kulaks".

In 1941, Soviet rule was replaced by another regime - the Nazi
occupation. Importantly, the Nazis regarded Volyn something
different and separate from Galychyna, where they were more
tolerant to the local residents and granted them considerable
privileges. But the residents of the Volyn region were cruelly
repressed, their property was seized and the kolkhoz system was
preserved. Besides, in November 1941 Reichskommissar Erich Koch
moved the administrative center of Ukraine to Rivne. As a
result, the concentration of German troops and police was very
high in Volyn, and a special curfew regime was established there.

The Poles of Galychyna and Volyn put up resistance and formed
their movement - Armija Krajowa. That partisan army needed food,
which was forcibly taken from the locals.

It's easy to understand what they felt: their relatives were
victims of the Soviets or the Nazis. Now the Polish partisans
raided their homes, taking away their food and cattle. They had
nothing left but go to the woods and defend their land, property
and families.

The ideology of OUN and UPA [Ukrainian Insurgent Army] was
simple: to build an independent Ukrainian state. According to
Prof. Jaroslaw Daszkewicz, the ideal of Ukrainian nationalism
was a mono-ethnic, mono-confessional independent state with a
socialist system of government. We must add: with an
authoritarian, quasi-democratic or even totalitarian system of
government. Ukraine (the lands under Polish rule included) was
regarded as an integral entity within ethnic boundaries - "from
the Carpathian to the Caucasus mountains", according to
Makhnovsky. The Polish government in exile and the Armija
Krajowa leadership regarded Volyn as Poland's eastern
territories and insisted at the international level on restoring
the Polish state within the 1939 boundaries. That's where the
political interests clashed.

Until late 1943, the possibility of repressing the Polish
population was never considered by OUN in its official
documents. OUN intended to repress the blatent enemies of
Ukraine and accomplices of the Nazis. During an ideological
conference in July 1941, OUN discussed the issue of the
Galychyna and Volyn Poles. Their final decision was to let those
who were ready to cooperate with Ukrainian authorities stay in
Ukraine and to deport those who wouldn't to Poland. Not a word
about total terror. It must be admitted, however, that in their
leaflets, issued in 1942, Stepan Bandera's followers called
their political opponents "Stalin's and Sikorsky's agents",
actually equating the Soviet regime with the exiled Polish
government.

As of 1943, there were four knots of Ukrainian-Polish
contradictions in Volyn: territorial-political, ethnic, military
(between partisans and civilians), and social. Terror was
spontaneous and massive. It was a reaction to twenty years of
Polish rule, a vent to the constant tension and fear of
recurrent repressive regimes, an attempt to solve all problems
at one stroke. In fact, it was a repetition of Koliivshchyna -
the peasant revolt of 1768, though somewhat modernized, without
religious "admixtures", w

Ciag dalszy: Dalej klamia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chimek]

As of 1943, there were four knots of Ukrainian-Polish
contradictions in Volyn: territorial-political, ethnic, military
(between partisans and civilians), and social. Terror was
spontaneous and massive. It was a reaction to twenty years of
Polish rule, a vent to the constant tension and fear of
recurrent repressive regimes, an attempt to solve all problems
at one stroke. In fact, it was a repetition of Koliivshchyna -
the peasant revolt of 1768, though somewhat modernized, without
religious "admixtures", with new methods, forms and areas. For
some time the OUN and UPA connived at the tragedy, officially
calling it a "radical cleansing of Ukrainian territory of Polish
elements", but actually letting it ride and slide.

The first clashes between Poles and Ukrainians in Volyn took
place in December 1942. It is still unknown who or what exactly
provoked the slaughter. It is known that a Polish troop attacked
the village of Peresopovychi on Christmas day in 1942. The
partisans were singing carols over the dead bodies of
Ukrainians. In January and February 1943 the confrontation was
sporadic. A representative of the Polish government in exile
wrote that Ukrainians were "exterminating Poles who served the
Nazis. The murders were in revenge for those who bent over
backwards to serve the Germans and acted against the interests
of the local community." But in late 1943 the anti-Polish action
became massive.

In summer 1943, the bloody drama entered its climax. The OUN and
UPA decided to put pressure on Polish residents of Volyn,
coercing them to leave for their ethnic Polish lands. The Do
Zbroi [Take Up Arms] magazine wrote in July 1943, "Let them go
to their historical homeland to build their Poland there,
because here they can only die in disgrace". On Aug. 15, 1943
the UPA issued a decree to turn over Polish landlords' and
colonists' lands to Ukrainian farmers. On July 11, 1943 UPA
launched a "cleansing" action. Armija Krajowa fought back. The
Ukrainian authorities issued an ultimatum, demanding that Poles
leave their village within 48 hours. Armija Krajowa ordered them
to stay, or else Poland would lose Volyn.

Yuriy Kyrychuk, a historian who died in an accident last year,
wrote a monograph (regrettably, unpublished as yet) on the
Ukrainian national liberation movement in 1940s - 1950s. It is,
probably, the best and most objective of all that has ever been
written about the OUN and UPA. Kravchuk gave an direct written
example of a single Volyn village. Ukrainian partisans broke
into a house of a mixed Polish-Ukrainian family - the husband
was Polish and the wife was Ukrainian. Nationality in such
families was determined in a simple way: if the husband was
Polish, his sons were Polish, and his Ukrainian wife's daughters
were Ukrainian. The partisans took the Polish father and his two
little sons into the yard and shot them there. They didn't touch
the woman and her baby girl.

A story is still told in a Volyn village about Poles who were
locked in the village church and burnt alive. During an
execution of Poles in the Dubniv district, the former UPR
[Ukrainian People's Republic] colonel was shot together with his
sons just because of his Polish descent! The clergy took its own
part as well, in revenge for the spreading of Catholicism to the
Orthodox lands: in the town of Chortorysk, Orthodox priests
personally executed 17 Poles. The wheel of terror, once set
going, always goes out of control. Terror is always blind and
senseless. The Polish side always got back, of course: AK took
retaliatory action. Besides, the Poles resorted to individual
terror against Ukrainians: professor A.Lastovetsky was killed in
Lviv, and the famous football player I.Vovchyshyn was killed in
Peremyshl. Some historians allege that colonel Roman Sushko and
general Marko Bezruchko were killed by Polish partisans.
Throughout 1943 the UPA and AK were more engaged in mutual
hostilities than in the fight against their external enemies.

The exact number of victims of the Volyn tragedy is still
unknown. Polish historians estimate the number of Polish victims
at 50,000 and the number of Ukrainian ones - at 15,000 - 17,000.
Ukrainian researchers argue that these figures are overstated.
They refer to an AK report dated 1943 which said that 15,000
Poles and about 12,000 Ukrainians perished in Volyn.

There were other forces, besides Ukrainian and Polish, in Volyn
at that time - the German troops or Soviet partisans, for
instance. Why did they ignore it? The total butchery and terror,
which is described by modern historians, couldn't have been
overlooked by the Germans or the Soviet partisans. Should this
mean that it was to someone's benefit? To the Nazis, the
Ukrainian-Polish conflict was a practical implementation of the
divide-and-rule principle. The Soviet partisans obviously
availed themselves of the conflict, as in the proverb: "Let two
fight, the third will take it all". Besides, Stalin may have
been interested in the conflict strategically, considering his
plans to reshape the Polish border after the war.

The German occupation authorities did their best to fan the
hatred between Ukrainians and Poles. Erich Koch stressed, "We
want a Pole to want to kill a Ukrainian whenever he sees one,
and a Ukrainian to want to kill a Pole, too."

After the Ukrainian police in Volyn and Polissya went to the
woods to join the partisans, the Germans recruited new
policemen, mostly from the local Poles. Besides, a Polish
Schutzpolizei battalion was maneuvered to Volyn, while the
German gendarmerie was maneuvered out of the region. As a
result, the interethnic conflict grew into a massacre. Yuriy
Kyrychuk writes that all German administrative offices in Lutsk
were headed by Poles. Poles made up 80% of the
Generalkommissariat [General Commissary's Office] staff, 60% of
the Gebietskommissariat [District Commissary's Office] staff,
60% of the staff in the central office for trade with the East
and 30% of the staff in the Economy Bank. As captured UPA
soldiers testified, "the Germans often put on overcoats with the
Ukrainian trident emblem and went to burn down a Polish village.
This was what happened in Huta Stepanska. There were about 250
German troops. Children were thrown into the fire alive." Even
Nikita Khrushchev wrote, analyzing the Ukrainian-Polish conflict
in Volyn, "I think all that was done by the Germans".

The Soviet partisans also contributed to the hostilities. In
spring 1943, Poles were forcibly recruited to Soviet partisan
troops.

In the eyes of the local people, Poles became collaborators,
which only added resentment to enmity.

One more fact: trying to stop the violence, Greek-Catholic
Metropolitan Andriy Sheptytsky requested Roman Catholic Bishop
Twardowsky to publish a joint appeal of the hierarchs to the
believers to stop the bloodshed. Twardowsky replied that the
church could not interfere in political affairs. The Ukrainian
side published a proclamation titled "Thou Shall Not Kill!",
which had tremendous influence during the war.

In Poland, the attitude of historians is unambiguous - what
happened in Volyn was a tragedy. But there are those who insist
on investigating and studying that period in Ukrainian-Polish
relations, and those who try to use the events of 60 years ago
as a mold for modern policies. Fortunately, the latter make up a
minority that is not even worth mentioning here. We would do
better to remember Professor Ryszard Torzecky, who was one of
the first to demand an objective study of the acute problems in
Polish-Ukrainian relations. Or Tadeusz Andrzeij Olszansky, who
cast a fresh glance on Ukraine and its history. Or Grzegorz
Motyk and Rafal Wnuk, who shifted from negativism in assessing
Ukrainian-Polish confr

Zakonczenie: Dalej klamia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chimek]

In Poland, the attitude of historians is unambiguous - what
happened in Volyn was a tragedy. But there are those who insist
on investigating and studying that period in Ukrainian-Polish
relations, and those who try to use the events of 60 years ago
as a mold for modern policies. Fortunately, the latter make up a
minority that is not even worth mentioning here. We would do
better to remember Professor Ryszard Torzecky, who was one of
the first to demand an objective study of the acute problems in
Polish-Ukrainian relations. Or Tadeusz Andrzeij Olszansky, who
cast a fresh glance on Ukraine and its history. Or Grzegorz
Motyk and Rafal Wnuk, who shifted from negativism in assessing
Ukrainian-Polish confrontation to objectivism in appraising UPA
and the Polish underground resistance during and immediately
after WW II. Their book Masters and Slayers: Cooperation between
UPA and AK in 1940s was not only a new view, but a turning point
in Polish historiography, urging the public to concentrate on
the factors that united, rather than disunited, the two nations.

Now, in connection with the 60th anniversary of the Volyn
tragedy, Warsaw demands via its representatives that the
Ukrainian President repent and apologize to the Polish nation on
behalf of Ukrainians.

But that's not the best way to honor the memory of the victims
and reconcile the two nations. Not only because the tragedy did
not result from Ukraine's state policy. Not because
international law classifies it as an interethnic conflict at a
regional level, rather than a state act against another state or
genocide against an ethnic minority. The fact is, any repentance
offered by this President, whose regime is criticized severely
by the majority of Ukrainians, would be meaningless and
politically void. It's not difficult to make the Ukrainian
leader apologize now as he is desperately looking for any
pretext to restore partnership with the West. The Ukrainian
President might well apologize. He might acknowledge the wrongs
and crimes of 60 years ago. But would that make an ordinary Pole
happy? Would his apology put an end to mutual mistrust? Would it
be honest?

The demands to acknowledge the Volyn tragedy as a horrible,
bloody page in Ukrainian-Polish interethnic relations are
certainly justified, and Ukraine doesn't evade admitting to
mistakes and crimes committed at that time. To arrange for a
series of commemorative events and build memorials to victims is
certainly a noble move. Official representatives of the two
countries do need to meet and shake hands so that such a tragedy
may never happen again. But public apologies on behalf of the
nation must be made only when Ukraine becomes fully democratic.
It should be an act of two equal states with a common vision of
advancement to Europe and with common strategic goals.

History should be handled by historians, not politicians. The
Ukrainian and Polish peoples have long been close partners,
because after the Volyn tragedy there were many things to unite
them. They are reconciled with each other, making a return to
the past simply impossible. It's a time of new realities and new
prospects. And the Volyn tragedy should remind us all how
fragile this world is and how easily friendship can turn into
hatred.

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Comments (39)


Yurko Onyskiv 17.02.2003 20:34

I never heard about any apology to the ukranian people from
anyone. Now we have to feel sorry for defending mother- land.
Being 7 years in US I never ...
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1 | 21 | 41 | 61 | 81 | 101 | 121 | 141 | 161 | 181 | ...

[Gość: fatso]

Dziekuje Koledze "chimek" za podanie oryginalu tekstu w jez.
angielskim. Poniewaz nie kazdy czytelnik tego pisma ma tak biegla
znajomosc tego jezyka jak ja, pozwalam sobie stwierdzic, ze jego
reprezentacja w GazWyb. jest li tylko nikla namiastka oryginalu.
Szechnik lze, ciekawe dlaczego to robi?

w oryginale

[Gość: bas]

poczytać można i po rosyjsku, jak ktos jeszcze pamięta i ma
ochotę
www.zerkalo-nedeli.com/ie/show/431/37682/

chimek, poczytaj do końca i wszystkie artykuły!!!!!!

[Gość: bas]

jeszcze trzy ciekawe artykuły po rosyjsku:
www.zerkalo-nedeli.com/ie/show/431/37671/http://www.zerkalo-nedeli.com/ie/show/431/37672/
www.zerkalo-nedeli.com/ie/show/431/37669/

Przeczytalem

[chimek]

Dziekuje ci bardzo za dalsze linki. Dalej jestem przekonany, ze GW
zmanipulowala artykul. Odnosnie calosci, to widze, ze na Ukrainie straszy sie
raczej Akowcami, a nie dazy sie do prawdy. Zwroc uwage, ze oni traktuje cala
sprawe instrumentalnie. Zadajacy pytania polskiemu poslowi martwi sie tylko o
to czy Ukraina ucierpi czy nie jesli nic nie zrobia w tej sprawie. Ich tylko
chodzi o to, czy Polska dalej bedzie popierac Ukraine na arenie miedzynarodowej
czy nie.
I jeszcze jedno. Znam dosc dobrze ukrainska historiografie na temat Akcji Wisla.
Wedlug niej dzialania komunistow do dalszy ciag "dzialan polskich nacjonalistow
sprzed 1939", ponadto sie nie chrzania i winia cale polskie spoleczenstwo.
Wedlug nich winni byli Polacy. Nie rozumiem czemu sie wiec oburzaja jesli ktos
nazywa UPA bandytami. Polska historiografia nie obwinia Ukraincow jako narod,
wskazuje precyzyjnie kto byl winni: siepacze z OUN. Ponadto Polacy mowia o
Ukraincach, ktorzy pomagali Polakom przezyc. Nawet ten posel w artykule
wspomina o tym. Czy jakis Ukrainiec przebaknal kiedykolwiek w jakims artykule,
o Polakach, ktorzy pomagali Ukraincom w czasie wojny lub Akcji Wisla? nie
spotkalem sie z tym. Na razie ich elity to bardzo mierny ludek.

[Gość: Tomek]

Widzę że nie poznałeś jeszcze Litwinów. Dla wielu z nich Polacy to to samo co
dla nas Niemcy, a w ogóle to do dziś nie mogą nam wybaczyć generała
Żeligowskiego. Chmielnicki dla Polaków był renegatem - dla Ukraińców -
bohaterem narodowym. A tak poważnie, to ja nie wymagam żeby cały świat
dogłębnie wnikał w naszą historię i starał się wszystko dokładnie zrozumieć.
Każdy ma swoje sprawy i swoje problemy... Polacy także nie są aniołkami i nie
raz mieli okazję zrobić "kuku" sąsiadom, w imię różnych - mniej lub bardziej
słusznych spraw. Tolerujmy się i szanujmy nawzajem, choćby po to, by nie
powtarzać starych błędów. Właśnie teraz mamy do tego okazję, jaka zdarza się
raz na parę wieków.

[Gość: Ukrainiec]

Chimek,
Nie pisza o takich Polakach bo takich nie bylo.

Przeczytalem

[chimek]

Dziekuje ci bardzo za dalsze linki. Dalej jestem przekonany, ze GW
zmanipulowala artykul. Odnosnie calosci, to widze, ze na Ukrainie straszy sie
raczej Akowcami, a nie dazy sie do prawdy. Zwroc uwage, ze oni traktuje cala
sprawe instrumentalnie. Zadajacy pytania polskiemu poslowi martwi sie tylko o
to czy Ukraina ucierpi czy nie jesli nic nie zrobia w tej sprawie. Ich tylko
chodzi o to, czy Polska dalej bedzie popierac Ukraine na arenie miedzynarodowej
czy nie.
I jeszcze jedno. Znam dosc dobrze ukrainska historiografie na temat Akcji Wisla.
Wedlug niej dzialania komunistow to dalszy ciag "dzialan polskich nacjonalistow
sprzed 1939", ponadto sie nie chrzania i winia cale polskie spoleczenstwo.
Wedlug nich winni byli Polacy. Nie rozumiem czemu sie wiec oburzaja jesli ktos
nazywa UPA bandytami. Polska historiografia nie obwinia Ukraincow jako narod,
wskazuje precyzyjnie kto byl winni: siepacze z OUN. Ponadto Polacy mowia o
Ukraincach, ktorzy pomagali Polakom przezyc. Nawet ten posel w artykule
wspomina o tym. Czy jakis Ukrainiec przebaknal kiedykolwiek w jakims artykule,
o Polakach, ktorzy pomagali Ukraincom w czasie wojny lub Akcji Wisla? nie
spotkalem sie z tym. Na razie ich elity to bardzo mierny ludek, ktorego nie
stac na najprostsze gesty dobrego wychowania.

Dyskusja nie ma sensu.

[Gość: Bor'ka]

Wsrod narodow wschodnioslowianskich bardzo silne jest przekonanie o moralnej
zasadnosci "patriotycznego klamstwa".
Nie do konca wiem z czego to wynika, ale pewnie z mongolskich wplywow.
Rosjanie wrecz uwazaja, iz mowic cala prawde o ojczyznie, to jak obrazac matke.
To jest calkiem inaczej niz u nas - ja nie twierdze, ze Polak nigdy nie
sklamie, ale uwaza to za cos nagannego.
Oni nie.
I dlatego dyskusja, szczegolnie z Rosjanami (ale Ukraincy nie sa od tego wolni)
nie ma wiekszego sensu. Oni beda klamac wbrew wszelkim racjom, wypierac sie
najlepiej udokumentowanych faktow, potem przejda do wyzwisk i grozb
osobistych...bo tak naprawde nic nie maja na swoja obrone.

[Gość: Ukr]

Nie wiele ludzi tu w Ukrainie a nawet na Wolyniu wie o tych
wydarzeniach. Mysle ze kazdy zgodzi sie ze ciezko przyjac na
siebie morderstwo 15 (50) tys niewinnych osob. Teraz Ukraincom
ciezko uwierzyc w to ze nie bylo zadnych na to powodow, stad i te
wykrutasy w naszej prasie. Nikt tu nie chce obielac mordercow,
nie zalezy kogo oni mordowali polakow czy zydow czy kogo innego.
Lecz potrzebny jakis czas na omyslenie tej strony naszej historji
przez cala nacje a wyprodukowanie prawidlowych wynioskow oby
historia nie przeszkadzala przeszlosci.

[Gość: Bor'ka]

Niewielu wie o Wolyniu, bo wygodnie nie wiedziec.
Ci co wiedza, usiluja przeciwstawic Wolyniowi akcje "Wisla", a to juz jest
hipokryzja. Dzialania OUN/UPA uwaza sie za ruch wyzwolenia Ukrainy,
a "Wisla"...hmmm ... to jeszcze jedna komunistyczna zbrodnia.
Mnie do polsko-ukrainskiego pojednania namawiac nie trzeba. Sojusz polityczny
naszych krajow, a nie jakies takie, czy inne NATA, moze byc podstawa
stabilnosci regionu, to jest jasne dla myslacych ludzi.
Ale trzeba zaczac od powiedzenia prawdy, a nie kontynuwac cyrk z Cmentarzem
Orlat.

[Gość: Ukr]

Gość portalu: Bor'ka napisał(a):

> Niewielu wie o Wolyniu, bo wygodnie nie wiedziec.
> Ci co wiedza, usiluja przeciwstawic Wolyniowi akcje "Wisla", a
to juz jest
> hipokryzja. Dzialania OUN/UPA uwaza sie za ruch wyzwolenia
Ukrainy,
> a "Wisla"...hmmm ... to jeszcze jedna komunistyczna zbrodnia.
> Mnie do polsko-ukrainskiego pojednania namawiac nie trzeba.
Sojusz polityczny
> naszych krajow, a nie jakies takie, czy inne NATA, moze byc
podstawa
> stabilnosci regionu, to jest jasne dla myslacych ludzi.
> Ale trzeba zaczac od powiedzenia prawdy, a nie kontynuwac cyrk
z Cmentarzem
> Orlat.

Ukraina jako panstwo niepodlegle istnieje dopiero 11 lat.
Ukrainska elita jedynie o czym myslala na przszeciagu ostatnich
400 lat to o nipodleglosci.
Teraz czas obejrzec sie i omyslec czego narobiono w imie tej
niepodleglosci i zeznac sie wszystkim, a najpierw samym sobie, ze
sa takie czyny ktorych musimy sie wstydzic jako nacja cywilizowana.
A dla czego milczeli o tym przewodcy ZSRR to nikt nie wie.

[Gość: Bor'ka]

CCCP to byla najwieksza zbrodnia w historii ludzkosci.
Bardzo bym chcial, zeby kiedys Ukraincy byli dla Polakow tym, czym Slowacy dla
Czechow.
Slawa nacii.
Samostinej Ukrainskiej.

[Gość: Ukrainiec]

Cyrk sie skonczy jak w Katowicach powstanie pomnik poleglych w
obronie niemieckiego Slaska.

do kolegi z Lucka

[chimek]

Gość portalu: Ukr napisał(a):

> Nie wiele ludzi tu w Ukrainie a nawet na Wolyniu wie o tych
> wydarzeniach. Mysle ze kazdy zgodzi sie ze ciezko przyjac na
> siebie morderstwo 15 (50) tys niewinnych osob. Teraz Ukraincom
> ciezko uwierzyc w to ze nie bylo zadnych na to powodow, stad i te
> wykrutasy w naszej prasie. Nikt tu nie chce obielac mordercow,
> nie zalezy kogo oni mordowali polakow czy zydow czy kogo innego.
> Lecz potrzebny jakis czas na omyslenie tej strony naszej historji
> przez cala nacje a wyprodukowanie prawidlowych wynioskow oby
> historia nie przeszkadzala przeszlosci.
Jak ty se poczuwajesz koleho?
Dziekuje ci bardzo za ten komentarz, ty juz przyczyniles sie do pojednania
polsko-ukrainskiego.
Prosze napisz do mnie pod [e-mail] i podaj tam takze swoj adres
e-mailowy. Bede mial do ciebie mala prosbe, ktora jesli zechcesz spelnisz w
ciagu 30 minut. Nie chce pisac o tym na forum. Jesli mi pomozesz odwdziecze sie
Tobie z nawiazka. Sprawa jest bardzo prosta, ale trzeba byc w Lucku.
Pozdrawiam "Siome niebo".
Chimek

do kolegi z Lucka

[chimek]

Gość portalu: Ukr napisał(a):

> Nie wiele ludzi tu w Ukrainie a nawet na Wolyniu wie o tych
> wydarzeniach. Mysle ze kazdy zgodzi sie ze ciezko przyjac na
> siebie morderstwo 15 (50) tys niewinnych osob. Teraz Ukraincom
> ciezko uwierzyc w to ze nie bylo zadnych na to powodow, stad i te
> wykrutasy w naszej prasie. Nikt tu nie chce obielac mordercow,
> nie zalezy kogo oni mordowali polakow czy zydow czy kogo innego.
> Lecz potrzebny jakis czas na omyslenie tej strony naszej historji
> przez cala nacje a wyprodukowanie prawidlowych wynioskow oby
> historia nie przeszkadzala przeszlosci.
Jak ty se poczuwajesz koleho?
Dziekuje ci bardzo za ten komentarz, ty juz przyczyniles sie do pojednania
polsko-ukrainskiego.
Prosze napisz do mnie pod [e-mail] i podaj tam takze swoj adres
e-mailowy. Bede mial do ciebie mala prosbe, ktora jesli zechcesz spelnisz w
ciagu 30 minut. Nie chce pisac o tym na forum. Jesli mi pomozesz odwdziecze sie
Tobie z nawiazka. Sprawa jest bardzo prosta, ale trzeba byc w Lucku.
Pozdrawiam "Siome nebo".
Chimek

[Gość: Ukrainiec]

Ho, ho!!!
What's next?
Buzia i niedzwiedzie usciski?
A powyzywac sie od zbrodniarzy to nie laska?

[Gość: JBB]

chimek napisała:

> Dziekuje ci bardzo za dalsze linki. Dalej jestem przekonany, ze GW
> zmanipulowala artykul. Odnosnie calosci, to widze, ze na Ukrainie straszy sie
> raczej Akowcami, a nie dazy sie do prawdy. Zwroc uwage, ze oni traktuje cala
> sprawe instrumentalnie. Zadajacy pytania polskiemu poslowi martwi sie tylko o
> to czy Ukraina ucierpi czy nie jesli nic nie zrobia w tej sprawie. Ich tylko
> chodzi o to, czy Polska dalej bedzie popierac Ukraine na arenie
miedzynarodowej
>
> czy nie.
> I jeszcze jedno. Znam dosc dobrze ukrainska historiografie na temat Akcji
Wisla
> .
> Wedlug niej dzialania komunistow to dalszy ciag "dzialan polskich
nacjonalistow
>
> sprzed 1939", ponadto sie nie chrzania i winia cale polskie spoleczenstwo.
> Wedlug nich winni byli Polacy. Nie rozumiem czemu sie wiec oburzaja jesli
ktos
> nazywa UPA bandytami. Polska historiografia nie obwinia Ukraincow jako narod,
> wskazuje precyzyjnie kto byl winni: siepacze z OUN. Ponadto Polacy mowia o
> Ukraincach, ktorzy pomagali Polakom przezyc. Nawet ten posel w artykule
> wspomina o tym. Czy jakis Ukrainiec przebaknal kiedykolwiek w jakims
artykule,
> o Polakach, ktorzy pomagali Ukraincom w czasie wojny lub Akcji Wisla? nie
> spotkalem sie z tym. Na razie ich elity to bardzo mierny ludek, ktorego nie
> stac na najprostsze gesty dobrego wychowania.
Panie Chimek,
"Akcja Wisla" to nie dlatego ze komunisci. Kazdy i rowniez dzisiejszy
demokratyczny rzad bedzie zbrojnie wystepowal przeciwko dzialaniom dazacym do
rozpadu panstwa.I jestem pewien ze obrona ta bylaby rownie brutalna jak 55 lat
temu.
Co do stwierdzenia ze Ukraincy przemilczaja pomoc Polakow w czasie
"Akcja Wisla " to Pan sie myli. Prosze poczytac opracowania dotyczace sluzby
medycznej w UPA a znajdzie Pan tam np.nazwisko Profesora Krwawicza z Kliniki
Lubelskiej z opisem jak operowal rannego lekarza z UPA ps. "Hrab ".
Pozdrowienia, JBB.

Nowa Ukraina, nowa Polska. Nowa Europa!

[Gość: wodzunio]

Cała moja rodzina ze strony matki pochodzi z Wołynia, okolic
Sarn. Przeżyli wojnę tylko dlatego, że jeden z ukraińskich
sąsiadów ostrzegł polską osadę przed planowaną rzezią przez co
sam został zamordowany. Przez kilkanaście miesięcy rodzina mojej
matki koczowała w lesie. Nikt z miejscowych Ukraińców nie
prześladował ich wtedy, to nie była wojna sąsiadów jak w
Jedwabnem. Mordercy przyszli skądinąd. Historia może nie tylko
nas dzielić. Gdyby Rzeczpospolita wykazała więcej zrozumienia
dla kwestii ukraińskiej być może nigdy nie doszłoby do zaborów!
Teraz mamy nową szansę aby zbudować wspólną przyszłość w duchu
przyjaźni i porozumienia, naiwnością byłoby z niej nie
skorzystać. Rozumiem, że wieluludziom trudno jest pogodzić się z
tamtymi wydarzeniami sprzed 60 lat lecz nienawiść i poczucie
żalu za wyrządzone krzywdy z czasem ustąpi nadziei na pojednanie.
Jeżeli ktoś twierdzi że do takiego pojednania dojść nie może, po
częsci sam staje się zarzewiem konfliktu, który stał się niegdyś
udziałem naszych rodzin. Rzeczą ludzką jest pamietać, ale przede
wszystkim wybaczać i prosić o wybaczenie.

[Gość: Ukrainiec]

Panowie,
Nudzicie mnie tym swoim pojednaniem.
Nikt chyba w to nie wierzy.
Wolyn, Cmentarz, katedra w Przemyslu, itp.
Znacie choc jedna rzecz, ktora nas laczy?
No, moze nienawisc do Sowietow. Ale to sie nie liczy, bo wy nie
odrozniacie Ukraincow od Sowietow.

[Gość: jurek]

Panstwo!
przeczytalem artykul i nadal zostaje neutralny. Uwazam ze nie
musi historia mac jakikolwiek wplyw na stosunki mieszy Polska i
Ukraina. (zobaczmy stosunki miedzy niemcami i Francja.)