Who killed Sikorski

[marimax]

It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
afraid he may survive it.
englishmen - the worst human trash on earth

[babiana]

"The inquiry's finding about the jammed controls, he wrote, seemed plausible.
"But it still leaves open the question of what

[sobieski010]

In my view very likely. Stalin had only to gain from a dead Sikorski.
Only he united the London Poles and only he had the universal respect of the
Western Allies.

Sigh.....

[nasza_maggie]

marimax napisał:

> It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
> afraid he may survive it.
> englishmen - the worst human trash on earth



I hate to provoke a troll but there you go.



You ask a question and the answer it for yourself, so what's the point? To
provoke people to prove to you otherwise???

"Looks like"? Where is the evidence? What is the evidence?

What have you read about the event? How much about history do you know?

(How old are you?)


When you start giving us some anwsers, then it is quite possible that this
might turn into a proper discussion, instead of name calling and proof of lack
of manners on from you (as usual).

[usenetposts]

marimax napisał:

> It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
> afraid he may survive it.
> englishmen - the worst human trash on earth

Terrible we are, killing Sikorski just for fun when he was on our side. How
rotten can you get?

Still, we helped Poland retain its big EU funding, so you have to forgive us.

[kapitan_ameryka]

Simple question... why english MI archives - containing evidence and hearings
from this case - will be opened long after all those who could be interested in
it will pass away???

There was something. Maybe not british, but soviets (soviet ambassador to UK,
was at the rock on that day - refuelling his Liberator, on a way to Moscow). If
british didnt do it, it is almost clear that they knew about it, which later
explains why they "sold Poland" to Stalin.

I am not a troll, and it was not me who provoked this question. I am just
bringing few proofs of evidence of "true british" way of dealing with Poland at
that time. I dont blame british for doing so, as this way possible war with
soviets was avoided.

[sobieski010]

In 1944 Britain was the smaller brother of the allies and not in a position to
enforce her will.
It was because of traitors such as Alger Hiss and Harry Dexter White that
Roosevelt policy towards Poland (and also towards De Gaulle) was shaped.
Not only that but they hid theit utmost best to ruin Britain during the war and
to destroy the country's economic foundations.
Dexter White died on a very practical moment while testifying before the HUAC.

[usenetposts]

Precisely. To this day we cannot fathom why it was that France and Germany
received Marshall Plan aid, and we received a bill to pay only.

It turns out that the loyalty of France and Germany were not bought by these
pathetic bribes, and they do not fight with America today, but theones fighting
today with America are its true friends the UK and Poland, which it managed to
treat like all kinds of shit as little as 61 years ago.

So if you want a lesson in how to behave to your friends like they were your
enemies and vice versa, ask your typical American, and they'll show you in
excrutiating detail.

When do Poles get visa free access to the States, btw. After how many litres of
the old red vintage krovvy will that be?

[sobieski010]

Why two such proud countries now kiss the ass of Bush?
Very bizarre seeing Kaczynski lowering his head to the ground to meet The Great
Idiot, and at the same time these LPR idiots doing their utmost best to offend
their primary trading partner... Germany.
Actually I admire France (for once - and believe me, for a Fleming that is hard)
and Germany to stand up against the USA. Remember Colin Powell delivering his
pack of lies about why we should attack Iraq - and Joshka Fischer calmly cutting
through this neocon shit with a simple "I do not believe you" ?

[firemouse]

Just to resist is not an answer. What alternative do French propose?

Apart from the currently ridiculous behaviour of our officials, considering the
reluctancy of Western Europe to get involved in any military action, it is
better to go with USA. Germans will sell us their goods as long as they earn on it.

Russia wants the energy hegemony over entire continent. What if the decide to
stroll westwards and just stop delivering oil? Where will you get fuel for tanks
and aircrafts? Germany tries to push us in Russian arms, and this does not bring
us anything good - as always. Sure, we should maintain good relations with
Germany, but don't count on them if you see red stars over your head one day.

[usenetposts]

We actually were in favour of war with the soviets, but not without US backing.
Churchill was unable to persuade Roosevelt that he should not be loyal to
Stalin for the wartime alliance against Hitler, but unfortunately that's the
understanding America had of Russian affairs at that time. They were destined
to wake up only a bit too late.

[babiana]

Churchill opposed the anexation of Poland by the Soviet Union but finally he was
unable to prevent it. The decision was up to Roosevelt. He mentioned this often
in his books and felt haunted by his helplessness till the end of his life.

[firemouse]

Bullshit.

They could easily shot him down over Biscaya and claim this was done by Germans.
No need to make a troublesome show with the water landing.

Also, before the Gibraltar Sikorski has visited Polish troops in Middle East and
Northern Africa, so it was even better occasion to do something when he was
travelling from Cairo. One can blame then Afrika Korps or Italians.

I've read a book which title just escaped my mind, but after a long and rather
well eveidenced story the responsibility is laid on Soviets, who allegedly sent
some spies down there to Polish Army in Africa and Gibraltar itself, and Majski
just went to Gibraltar to witness the decline of his enemy.

So the Soviets then.

What is your problem with Englishmen, by the way?

[sobieski010]

It is probably the book which is now for sale in Empik here in Warsaw. Have
forgotten the title though.

[babiana]

firemouse napisał:
>
> So the Soviets then.

Another question. Who tried to kill JPII?

[firemouse]

Babiana, don't pull obvious answers.

Can you say, who wanted to enter Poland in 1981?

[varsovian]

As for Sikorski, I have my own pet theory.
Obviously, it was on Russian orders. Only an ignoramus could fail to see that!
(i) Britain had no culture of assassinating leaders (Heydrich being the only
exception)
(ii) Britain had absolutely nothing to gain from making an extravagant gesture
simply to please an obviously antaganistic Russia
(iii) The actual assassin was probably an English Communist agent - best access
to the plane

[firemouse]

Oh, Britain had something to lose. Stalin continously threatened to ceasefire on
the eastern front. Remember that Soviets were Germans enemy just a year then,
and before they were allies. And eastern front was crucial to keep Germans busy
away from the Isles.

Soviets wanted already that time to install a controlled government in Poland so
the London one was not pleasant to them. That's also why the sabotaged
Churchill's plan to invade Europe from Balkans - they were scary that Central
Europe will not fall into their realms.

All after all, teh one who killed was probably member of Polish troops or army,
but there were so many communist agents in UK these days that your theory is
very likely too. I always wondered, what all these people in west seen so
attractive in communism. We should swap for these 45 years

[babiana]

firemouse napisał:

> Babiana, don't pull obvious answers.
>
> Can you say, who wanted to enter Poland in 1981?

It seems that all roads lead to Rome. Sorry, Moscow.

[firemouse]

Eh, no. Actually our friends East Germans or however you call the DDR rulers.

Second in line stayed Czechoslovakia who wanted to convert Wroclaw into late
Hradec Kralove.

Moscow was very deliberate over the issue and they were locked up in Afghanistan
so did not want to make west world nervous. Besides, they had bases here already
so indeed did not need to get into. They could get tanks from Marsa Street to
the city center in less than half an hour. So why bother.

[varsovian]

The Germans and Czechs obviously had designs on Polish territory????
I suppose their hardline Communist governments were independent of the Russians
too ...
Oh purrlease

[firemouse]

They were dependant, that's why it did not happen. Imagine Volksarmee marching
through Szczecin. Soviets wanted everything under control and they could not
allow their puppets to fight between themselves. DDR invasion would cause
resistance and fight. Not mentioning the resentments to retake of "alt Heimat".

However, much later on, in some 1987 or 1988 the citizens of Szczecin woke up
one morning to see DDR monitors at the Odra banks. The scandal erupted and
(obvoiusly after Soviet intervention, who said them to back off) the same day
they vanished, but you can imagine what a real invasion would cause...

[kapitan_ameryka]

Son, Biscaya was at that time controlled by allied air forces. Shooting its own
plane there would show to public that in fact allies are loosing air war. At
that time there were intensive raids over Reich, which caused lots of losses in
planes and crews. Thats why shooting its own plane there was not a good idea.

Second. Planes flying to the Rock, were flying far over the atlantic, way
beyond reach of any kind of german plane.

Third. Despite the fact, that planes were beyond the reach of germans, they had
a good fighter cover all along the way. Half way from UK, the other half from
the Rock.

Fourth. Afrika Corps lost the war in 1942. On 23 january 1943 last solders were
evacuated or captured. Read history.

[sobieski010]

I think the Poles better should not complain too much. When Hitler invaded the
last part of Czechslovakia, the Poles were very fast to invade the Czech area of
Ciesyzn /Teschen. You would almost think they did it in cooperation with the
Germans. (Which might be the case actually)

As for the Balkan... Ah well if you see how difficult the Italy campaign was (in
a civilised country with a good infrastructure), you might think how difficult
it might be to advance in Yugoslavia.
Besides I do not think Tito would stand idle.

[minimus]

sorry, I have to say that: load of bull there from you Sobieski!

1. This Czech invasion is brought up so often by ppl who have no idea about
this. First of all Cieszyn was taken from us by the Czechs during the Polish -
Soviet war of 1920. Poles were actually a majority there. Did you know that?
Secondly (that I am not completely sure of, but I think I know more about it
than you anyway (thats not difficult), the Czechs knowing that they are
finished by the Germans asked us to take it back. Now, we (as Poles) said many
times that we are sorry and we should have not done this. What the hell do you
want more?

2. Italy more civilised than Yugo?? WTF??!! So the allies could take an express
train and proceed across the whole country. Do you actually know
how "civilised" southern Italy was back than? Do you actually know anything
about what you wrote here?

[sobieski010]

Getting personal is not the best idea, first of all.
Then, Teschen was one of these myriad Central European enclaves with a very
mixed population. I admit the Czech army went into it in 1920 on a moment Poland
was pre-occupied fighting the Soviets.
Very funny this quotation "The Czechs asked us to take it back". And very sad
because as it happens the Czechs were the only genuine democratic people in the
whole of Central Europe.
I think it is preposterous thinking only Poles know and judge what happened in
Poland.
Besides, speaking of majorities - that is always a dangerous subject. What about
the Kresy, where in many areas there were hardly any Poles living?

About Italy. It took the allies untill May 1945 to reach the Austrian border.
Who speaks here of an express train?
How long would it have taken them to march through an extremely rugged country
such as Yugoslavia, with Tito not exactly being very enthusiast?
See here also the conflict in the Trieste area and the Yugoslavian/Austrian
borderlands between Tito and the Western allies.

[minimus]

I don't think I got personal. If I did however, so did you. You are saying
stupid things about all of Poles. You pointed your finger at us saying we did
something bad. I came up with arguments and facts, not opinions. You now talk
about Czechoslovakia being democratic, and something about "it is preposterous
thinking only Poles know and judge what happened in Poland", you also bring up
Kresy. WTF are going on about man???!!! Your nationality is not an issue here,
political system in Czechoslovakia is not an issue here, and Kresy... I just
stood up and pointed a finger at you saying you talk bull shit. And I still
think so.

[usenetposts]

I thought Italy was one of the cradles of civilisation.

As long as you could get a glass of cold grappa and some prime paste, how bad
could it be?

[marimax]

I cry every time I read about the great english people who won the war without
anybody's help, defeted Luftwaffe all by themselves, went through Italy without
even noticing Monte Casino, decoded Enigma themselves........
What a nation and now we have to be grateful to these great people for letting
us in the EU and opening it's job markets for desperate people from Poland who
can not find work in Poland because the commies and it's allies from the west
destroyed most of industry so there is no competition for it's products.
At the same time hundreds of thousands of young english people don't want to
work preferring to live on governmet handouts
What a country, what a people

[sobieski010]

I think you are pathetic. In case you would not have noticed - in the Summer of
1940 during the Battle of Britain you Yanks were producing refrigerators and
Cadillacs, when Churchill saved also your stupid ass.
On the moment Joe Kennedy was waiting to sell the UK to Hitler. When the the
entire US Treasury thought Uncle Joe was a great guy who only wanted world peace.
As I said - pathetic.

[babiana]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

[babiana]

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/930873.stm

[babiana]

culture.polishsite.us/articles/art207fr.htm

[nasza_maggie]

usenetposts napisał:

> I thought Italy was one of the cradles of civilisation.
>
> As long as you could get a glass of cold grappa and some prime paste, how bad
> could it be?
>

hmmmmmmm Italian drivers?))))

[nasza_maggie]

sobieski010 napisał:

> I think the Poles better should not complain too much. When Hitler invaded the
> last part of Czechslovakia, the Poles were very fast to invade the Czech area
o
> f
> Ciesyzn /Teschen. You would almost think they did it in cooperation with the
> Germans. (Which might be the case actually)
>

I'm not even going to laugh.

Who killed Popieluszko?

[ianek70]

My God! It was the Poles!
I'll never trust them again.

marimax napisał:

> It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
> afraid he may survive it.
> englishmen - the worst human trash on earth

Find a new boring obsession, you sad little runt.

[nasza_maggie]

oh! Hi Ian

[marimax]

It only proves how stupid you are.
Popieluszko was killed by your heros, communists.
Remember: good commie is dead commie