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Who killed Sikorski

08.09.06, 20:15
It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
afraid he may survive it.
englishmen - the worst human trash on earth
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    • nasza_maggie Sigh..... 09.09.06, 00:28
      marimax napisał:

      > It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
      > afraid he may survive it.
      > englishmen - the worst human trash on earth



      I hate to provoke a troll but there you go.



      You ask a question and the answer it for yourself, so what's the point? To
      provoke people to prove to you otherwise???

      "Looks like"? Where is the evidence? What is the evidence?

      What have you read about the event? How much about history do you know?

      (How old are you?)


      When you start giving us some anwsers, then it is quite possible that this
      might turn into a proper discussion, instead of name calling and proof of lack
      of manners on from you (as usual).
    • usenetposts Re: Who killed Sikorski 10.09.06, 01:07
      marimax napisał:

      > It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
      > afraid he may survive it.
      > englishmen - the worst human trash on earth

      Terrible we are, killing Sikorski just for fun when he was on our side. How
      rotten can you get?

      Still, we helped Poland retain its big EU funding, so you have to forgive us.
      • kapitan_ameryka Re: Who killed Sikorski 11.09.06, 12:03
        Simple question... why english MI archives - containing evidence and hearings
        from this case - will be opened long after all those who could be interested in
        it will pass away???

        There was something. Maybe not british, but soviets (soviet ambassador to UK,
        was at the rock on that day - refuelling his Liberator, on a way to Moscow). If
        british didnt do it, it is almost clear that they knew about it, which later
        explains why they "sold Poland" to Stalin.

        I am not a troll, and it was not me who provoked this question. I am just
        bringing few proofs of evidence of "true british" way of dealing with Poland at
        that time. I dont blame british for doing so, as this way possible war with
        soviets was avoided.
        • sobieski010 Re: Who killed Sikorski 11.09.06, 12:46
          In 1944 Britain was the smaller brother of the allies and not in a position to
          enforce her will.
          It was because of traitors such as Alger Hiss and Harry Dexter White that
          Roosevelt policy towards Poland (and also towards De Gaulle) was shaped.
          Not only that but they hid theit utmost best to ruin Britain during the war and
          to destroy the country's economic foundations.
          Dexter White died on a very practical moment while testifying before the HUAC.
          • usenetposts Re: Who killed Sikorski 11.09.06, 13:04
            Precisely. To this day we cannot fathom why it was that France and Germany
            received Marshall Plan aid, and we received a bill to pay only.

            It turns out that the loyalty of France and Germany were not bought by these
            pathetic bribes, and they do not fight with America today, but theones fighting
            today with America are its true friends the UK and Poland, which it managed to
            treat like all kinds of shit as little as 61 years ago.

            So if you want a lesson in how to behave to your friends like they were your
            enemies and vice versa, ask your typical American, and they'll show you in
            excrutiating detail.

            When do Poles get visa free access to the States, btw. After how many litres of
            the old red vintage krovvy will that be?
            • sobieski010 Re: Who killed Sikorski 11.09.06, 21:31
              Why two such proud countries now kiss the ass of Bush?
              Very bizarre seeing Kaczynski lowering his head to the ground to meet The Great
              Idiot, and at the same time these LPR idiots doing their utmost best to offend
              their primary trading partner... Germany.
              Actually I admire France (for once - and believe me, for a Fleming that is hard)
              and Germany to stand up against the USA. Remember Colin Powell delivering his
              pack of lies about why we should attack Iraq - and Joshka Fischer calmly cutting
              through this neocon shit with a simple "I do not believe you" ?
              • firemouse Re: Who killed Sikorski 12.09.06, 10:31
                Just to resist is not an answer. What alternative do French propose?

                Apart from the currently ridiculous behaviour of our officials, considering the
                reluctancy of Western Europe to get involved in any military action, it is
                better to go with USA. Germans will sell us their goods as long as they earn on it.

                Russia wants the energy hegemony over entire continent. What if the decide to
                stroll westwards and just stop delivering oil? Where will you get fuel for tanks
                and aircrafts? Germany tries to push us in Russian arms, and this does not bring
                us anything good - as always. Sure, we should maintain good relations with
                Germany, but don't count on them if you see red stars over your head one day.
        • usenetposts Re: Who killed Sikorski 11.09.06, 13:00
          We actually were in favour of war with the soviets, but not without US backing.
          Churchill was unable to persuade Roosevelt that he should not be loyal to
          Stalin for the wartime alliance against Hitler, but unfortunately that's the
          understanding America had of Russian affairs at that time. They were destined
          to wake up only a bit too late.
          • babiana Re: Who killed Sikorski 11.09.06, 14:47
            Churchill opposed the anexation of Poland by the Soviet Union but finally he was
            unable to prevent it. The decision was up to Roosevelt. He mentioned this often
            in his books and felt haunted by his helplessness till the end of his life.
    • firemouse Re: Who killed Sikorski 11.09.06, 13:28
      Bullshit.

      They could easily shot him down over Biscaya and claim this was done by Germans.
      No need to make a troublesome show with the water landing.

      Also, before the Gibraltar Sikorski has visited Polish troops in Middle East and
      Northern Africa, so it was even better occasion to do something when he was
      travelling from Cairo. One can blame then Afrika Korps or Italians.

      I've read a book which title just escaped my mind, but after a long and rather
      well eveidenced story the responsibility is laid on Soviets, who allegedly sent
      some spies down there to Polish Army in Africa and Gibraltar itself, and Majski
      just went to Gibraltar to witness the decline of his enemy.

      So the Soviets then.

      What is your problem with Englishmen, by the way?
          • varsovian Re: Who killed Sikorski 12.09.06, 12:23
            As for Sikorski, I have my own pet theory.
            Obviously, it was on Russian orders. Only an ignoramus could fail to see that!
            (i) Britain had no culture of assassinating leaders (Heydrich being the only
            exception)
            (ii) Britain had absolutely nothing to gain from making an extravagant gesture
            simply to please an obviously antaganistic Russia
            (iii) The actual assassin was probably an English Communist agent - best access
            to the plane
            • firemouse Re: Who killed Sikorski 12.09.06, 14:52
              Oh, Britain had something to lose. Stalin continously threatened to ceasefire on
              the eastern front. Remember that Soviets were Germans enemy just a year then,
              and before they were allies. And eastern front was crucial to keep Germans busy
              away from the Isles.

              Soviets wanted already that time to install a controlled government in Poland so
              the London one was not pleasant to them. That's also why the sabotaged
              Churchill's plan to invade Europe from Balkans - they were scary that Central
              Europe will not fall into their realms.

              All after all, teh one who killed was probably member of Polish troops or army,
              but there were so many communist agents in UK these days that your theory is
              very likely too. I always wondered, what all these people in west seen so
              attractive in communism. We should swap for these 45 years smile
            • firemouse Re: Who killed Sikorski 12.09.06, 14:45
              Eh, no. Actually our friends East Germans or however you call the DDR rulers.

              Second in line stayed Czechoslovakia who wanted to convert Wroclaw into late
              Hradec Kralove.

              Moscow was very deliberate over the issue and they were locked up in Afghanistan
              so did not want to make west world nervous. Besides, they had bases here already
              so indeed did not need to get into. They could get tanks from Marsa Street to
              the city center in less than half an hour. So why bother.
                • firemouse Re: Who killed Sikorski 13.09.06, 10:06
                  They were dependant, that's why it did not happen. Imagine Volksarmee marching
                  through Szczecin. Soviets wanted everything under control and they could not
                  allow their puppets to fight between themselves. DDR invasion would cause
                  resistance and fight. Not mentioning the resentments to retake of "alt Heimat".

                  However, much later on, in some 1987 or 1988 the citizens of Szczecin woke up
                  one morning to see DDR monitors at the Odra banks. The scandal erupted and
                  (obvoiusly after Soviet intervention, who said them to back off) the same day
                  they vanished, but you can imagine what a real invasion would cause...
      • kapitan_ameryka Re: Who killed Sikorski 13.09.06, 16:35
        Son, Biscaya was at that time controlled by allied air forces. Shooting its own
        plane there would show to public that in fact allies are loosing air war. At
        that time there were intensive raids over Reich, which caused lots of losses in
        planes and crews. Thats why shooting its own plane there was not a good idea.

        Second. Planes flying to the Rock, were flying far over the atlantic, way
        beyond reach of any kind of german plane.

        Third. Despite the fact, that planes were beyond the reach of germans, they had
        a good fighter cover all along the way. Half way from UK, the other half from
        the Rock.

        Fourth. Afrika Corps lost the war in 1942. On 23 january 1943 last solders were
        evacuated or captured. Read history.
    • sobieski010 Re: Who killed Sikorski 12.09.06, 19:48
      I think the Poles better should not complain too much. When Hitler invaded the
      last part of Czechslovakia, the Poles were very fast to invade the Czech area of
      Ciesyzn /Teschen. You would almost think they did it in cooperation with the
      Germans. (Which might be the case actually)

      As for the Balkan... Ah well if you see how difficult the Italy campaign was (in
      a civilised country with a good infrastructure), you might think how difficult
      it might be to advance in Yugoslavia.
      Besides I do not think Tito would stand idle.
      • minimus Re: Who killed Sikorski 12.09.06, 20:24
        sorry, I have to say that: load of bull there from you Sobieski!

        1. This Czech invasion is brought up so often by ppl who have no idea about
        this. First of all Cieszyn was taken from us by the Czechs during the Polish -
        Soviet war of 1920. Poles were actually a majority there. Did you know that?
        Secondly (that I am not completely sure of, but I think I know more about it
        than you anyway (thats not difficult), the Czechs knowing that they are
        finished by the Germans asked us to take it back. Now, we (as Poles) said many
        times that we are sorry and we should have not done this. What the hell do you
        want more?

        2. Italy more civilised than Yugo?? WTF??!! So the allies could take an express
        train and proceed across the whole country. Do you actually know
        how "civilised" southern Italy was back than? Do you actually know anything
        about what you wrote here?
        • sobieski010 Re: Who killed Sikorski 12.09.06, 21:00
          Getting personal is not the best idea, first of all.
          Then, Teschen was one of these myriad Central European enclaves with a very
          mixed population. I admit the Czech army went into it in 1920 on a moment Poland
          was pre-occupied fighting the Soviets.
          Very funny this quotation "The Czechs asked us to take it back". And very sad
          because as it happens the Czechs were the only genuine democratic people in the
          whole of Central Europe.
          I think it is preposterous thinking only Poles know and judge what happened in
          Poland.
          Besides, speaking of majorities - that is always a dangerous subject. What about
          the Kresy, where in many areas there were hardly any Poles living?

          About Italy. It took the allies untill May 1945 to reach the Austrian border.
          Who speaks here of an express train?
          How long would it have taken them to march through an extremely rugged country
          such as Yugoslavia, with Tito not exactly being very enthusiast?
          See here also the conflict in the Trieste area and the Yugoslavian/Austrian
          borderlands between Tito and the Western allies.
          • minimus Re: Who killed Sikorski 12.09.06, 21:28
            I don't think I got personal. If I did however, so did you. You are saying
            stupid things about all of Poles. You pointed your finger at us saying we did
            something bad. I came up with arguments and facts, not opinions. You now talk
            about Czechoslovakia being democratic, and something about "it is preposterous
            thinking only Poles know and judge what happened in Poland", you also bring up
            Kresy. WTF are going on about man???!!! Your nationality is not an issue here,
            political system in Czechoslovakia is not an issue here, and Kresy... I just
            stood up and pointed a finger at you saying you talk bull shit. And I still
            think so.
          • marimax Re: Who killed Sikorski 13.09.06, 19:58
            I cry every time I read about the great english people who won the war without
            anybody's help, defeted Luftwaffe all by themselves, went through Italy without
            even noticing Monte Casino, decoded Enigma themselves........
            What a nation and now we have to be grateful to these great people for letting
            us in the EU and opening it's job markets for desperate people from Poland who
            can not find work in Poland because the commies and it's allies from the west
            destroyed most of industry so there is no competition for it's products.
            At the same time hundreds of thousands of young english people don't want to
            work preferring to live on governmet handouts
            What a country, what a people
          • nasza_maggie Re: Who killed Sikorski 15.09.06, 01:54
            usenetposts napisał:

            > I thought Italy was one of the cradles of civilisation.
            >
            > As long as you could get a glass of cold grappa and some prime paste, how bad
            > could it be?
            >

            hmmmmmmm Italian drivers?smile))))
      • nasza_maggie Re: Who killed Sikorski 15.09.06, 01:53
        sobieski010 napisał:

        > I think the Poles better should not complain too much. When Hitler invaded the
        > last part of Czechslovakia, the Poles were very fast to invade the Czech area
        o
        > f
        > Ciesyzn /Teschen. You would almost think they did it in cooperation with the
        > Germans. (Which might be the case actually)
        >

        I'm not even going to laugh.
    • ianek70 Who killed Popieluszko? 14.09.06, 10:54
      My God! It was the Poles!
      I'll never trust them again.

      marimax napisał:

      > It looks like englishmen killed him before the crash because they were
      > afraid he may survive it.
      > englishmen - the worst human trash on earth

      Find a new boring obsession, you sad little runt.

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