history in Polish schools

[raggety]

"Nobody in our class likes German or the Germans. The Germans always did
loads of horrible things to Poland. I know, because at school they're always
showing us films of what Germany did to Poland. Who cares if Germany is a
clean, tidy, porządny country, that's just for themselves. They only do good
things for themselves. They've been doing nasty things to Poland for years.
So what if the Poles threw out some Germans after the War, they deserved it.
I'd much rather learn Russian." These are the words of an English boy who
goes to a Polish state gimnazjum. I was appalled (he wouldn't accept the
argument that the Germans who are alive now are not the same ones who did the
nasty things to Poland). It never occurred to me to mind what he might be
learning about the Germans, as I have generally, and frequently, come across
anti-Russian sentiments, so as a Russophile I have always emphasised positive
aspects of Russia and the Russians. The English village state comprehensive I
went to never taught us ANYTHING negative about any other nation. (When we
learnt about the American Revolution, the teacher never said it, but the
impression was - their cause was right, they were right to fight for
independence from us.) My school fostered good relations with the French and
the Germans, taught us that when abroad we must behave because we
are "ambassadors for our country", it allowed me to learn Russian (which
certainly wasn't on the curriculum!) and even paid for the exam. Whenever
anyone criticses the English for being so unreligious, I always answer - yes,
we are probably the least religious nation in the world, but we are also the
most tolerant. Interestingly, my son's history teacher's name is Kaczynska ...

[gosiash]

That's the biggest load of rubbish I've ever read. I'm Polish, I was tought
history but I've never been told to be anti-German. And comparison between
American Revolution which was fight for independence and World War II stunned
me.
>These are the words of an English boy - think about that when you try to prove
that >we are also the most tolerant ...

And it wasn't Poles who threw out some Germans. It was the countries who
decided where the boarders should be after the II World War. Just to remind you
Britain was one of them and your beloved Russians. My Grandparents didn't want
to leave their homes in the East and move West.

[asdf401]

Take a look at Germany's bookstores around 1st september each year. They have
shoping windows ready with new titles on the ocasion of WW2 aniversary. Two
types of books are most visible and popular: "Hitler the mad individual -
biography of a crazy man responsible for suffering of many" and the second one:
"The enormous and significant resistence movement to Nazism throught Germany".
Titles very slightly.
As new generations are Not responsible and on the governments level a lot has
been done to clarify the issues of WW2 we are still in times when victims are
alive or remembered in many polish families. My aunt who I saw recently on
Easter would never go to Germany and would react alergic to anything German. She
was a slave worker for 2 years in Germany, working the farm down to dusk at age
17 to 18. She's been offered 6000 PLN payment for this work as compensation
which she did refused. (...) Soon she and herlike would be dead and anty German
propaganda would stop I guess.

[raggety]

I was quoting the opinion of a gimnazjalista and his class mates, I don't know
exactly what the rubbish is you're referring to.

I made no comparison between the American Revolution and World War Two, rather
the attitudes of the teachers. Incidently, my son's teacher hasn't taught them
to be anti-German (and I didn't say she had), but it is certainly a shame they
have been left to draw such conclusions themselves.

I found it interesting that my son said "all the horrible things the Germans
had done to the Poles", but didn't mention the Holocaust (perhaps it's not part
of the syllabus?). We are of Jewish descent, but I do not hate the Germans.
Most of the millions now living in Germany had nothing to do with the
Holocaust, just as I, my parents and my son had nothing to do with the location
of Poland's borders after the war - my parents were mere children and I hadn't
even been born! Ditto the Russians. Besides, it was the decision of
politicians, not the people, so I see no reason to allow anything in school
that fosters (even inadvertently) dislike and hatred of one nation based on
what its predecessors did to the predecessors of another nation. Hatred and
nationalism are just such a waste of energy that could be channelled into
something positive.

Yes, my son is English, but unfortunately has not had the benefit of an English
schooling. If he had, he certainly wouldn't be spouting dislike of the Germans!

[gosiash]

The rubbish I was refering to was what you're trying to imply: 'Children in
Polish schools are beeing taught' hatred towards Germany'. Yes Germans did
horrible things to Poles during IIWW but no one is saying that Germans living
there now are responsible.

>but didn't mention the Holocaust - well, now I understood that you're accusing
Poles of not teaching about Holocaust. If that is the case with your son maybe
you should consider changing the school 'cos I've been to Oswiecim as a part of
a school trip and no, we weren't told that it was just Poles who died there.
Everyone in Poland knows about Jews in Oswiecim, Warsaw Ghetto. Well, there are
a few who don't but each nation has uneducated few.

>my parents and my son had nothing to do with the location of Poland's borders
after the war - well, you accused Poles of kicking Germans out and all I'm
saying is we had nothing to say. As you quite rightly said it were politicians
so don't try to blame the Poles. It weren't even Polish politicians who were
choosing the borders.

And I personally think that even if our children do rebell agains us and voice
opinions taught at school, it's our, parents responsibility to teach them
what's right according to us. You see, I've been taught a lot of rubbish at
school about lots of things but fortunately the values that my parents and
grandparents taught me, prevailed. And so I wish you all the best with your
sons education cause as a parent myself I know how difficult it can be.

[minimus]

Do you see any (significant) signs of anti German sentiment in Poland apart
from what your son said??

[usenetposts]

raggety napisała:

> "Nobody in our class likes German or the Germans. The Germans always did
> loads of horrible things to Poland. I know, because at school they're always
> showing us films of what Germany did to Poland. Who cares if Germany is a
> clean, tidy, porządny country, that's just for themselves. They only do good
> things for themselves. They've been doing nasty things to Poland for years.
> So what if the Poles threw out some Germans after the War, they deserved it.

The removal of ethnic Germans after the war was necessary to make Lebensraum
and Leberwurst for the Polish people returning from territories they had lost
to the Soviet Union largely because of Gitler and the Molotov-Ribbentrop love
affair.

If Germans wish - and if certain parts of YouTube are anything to go by these
people certainly do exist and in droves - to have their old bits back again,
then my view would be, by all means! Provided that first Germany undoes the
damage it did by giving us back all the old eastern territory and cleans up the
mess and damage done to those territories by the former Soviet Union, including
by Chernobyl. If it does so, then I cannot see anything so objectionable to
them having back their old bits. Poland will be one and a half times bigger,
and become Europe's main producer of food and green energy.

> I'd much rather learn Russian." These are the words of an English boy who
> goes to a Polish state gimnazjum.

The one does not exclude the other. I hope this young learner of Russian finds
the Russian course I have done on YouTube as Viktor Dmitrievitch Huliganov.

> I was appalled (he wouldn't accept the
> argument that the Germans who are alive now are not the same ones who did the
> nasty things to Poland).

Not only are they not the same ones, they are not even distantly related to
them. Hardly any of them, if you ask them, have among their ancestors anyone
who did anything wrong in the war.

Each of the ones you ever meet on line, all of their parents, grandparents and
great grandparents were dissenters, and never even supported the Nazi party.

We know from history that most Germans did support them, and that thousands of
Germans committed atrocities, but after`the war their families magically
disappeared and were replaced by genetically clean ones.


> It never occurred to me to mind what he might be
> learning about the Germans, as I have generally, and frequently, come across
> anti-Russian sentiments, so as a Russophile I have always emphasised positive
> aspects of Russia and the Russians.

Indeed. They are not without their faults, but Communism was not their fault -
they were the victims of that and not the perpetrators.

Nobody alive today, in the former Soviet Union, is related to anyone who was a
camp guard during the gulags, or who shot Polish officers in the head at Katyn.

> The English village state comprehensive I
> went to never taught us ANYTHING negative about any other nation. (When we
> learnt about the American Revolution, the teacher never said it, but the
> impression was - their cause was right, they were right to fight for
> independence from us.)

They were, however, not entirely right.

It was good that they had their own nation, and that in this way there are more
independent nations around the world with a shared legacy of English.

However, I cannot say that they achieved independence from taxation. These days
it is a lot easier for a British person to go abroad and forget any need to
file returns or pay as soon as he is not ordinarily resident than it is for an
American, who must pay the IRS regardless of where he goes to live and work and
regardless of how long.

They may have been fighting to be the land of the free, but right now I cannot
think of a nation more tied up in bureaucratic regulations and hamstringed by
lawyers and crippled by political corectness than America, and they of course
are dragging Britain down with them, as we have always influenced each other.

> My school fostered good relations with the French and
> the Germans, taught us that when abroad we must behave because we
> are "ambassadors for our country", it allowed me to learn Russian (which
> certainly wasn't on the curriculum!) and even paid for the exam.

My school also paid for my Russian exam. I taught myself from a book though, as
there were nearly no Russians in England then, neither did Hertfordshire have
any teachers and if it did then they wouldn't have funded that for one pupil.


> Whenever
> anyone criticses the English for being so unreligious, I always answer - yes,
> we are probably the least religious nation in the world, but we are also the
> most tolerant. Interestingly, my son's history teacher's name is Kaczynska ...

We are not that irreligious, just some people are over irreligious, and most
people are over-tolerant for the simple reason that they are past caring any
more.

They no longer believe that anything can be done to clean up our country.

There is total disillusionment with politics, and there is not the will to
elect a different kind of politician.

All parties, Labour, liberal and conservative, contain the self-same smarmy
gits pushing the self-same so-called centrist agenda. It is a simple question
as to whether you want vanilla, amaretto, or almond-flavoured syrup with it.