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"They're all Poles..."

13.02.06, 16:10
I was at my sister's the other week, near Edinburgh, and we went to a cafe,
where I ordered two teas, a cake and a sandwich.
"What, please?" said the man behind the counter.
I repeated my order several times, until eventually we got something to eat
and drink.
"Another Pole," said my sister in irritation.
He didn't look or sound Polish, I told her.
"That's what we call them. Who cares where they're from?"

So check out next year's dictionaries:
"Pole (noun): any foreigner on the minimum wage who doesn't understand
anything."
Obserwuj wątek
    • ejmarkow Re: "They're all Poles..." 13.02.06, 16:34
      Ianek,

      Extremely rude. I didn't realize you (or your sister) hate Poles so much. This
      is Anti-Polonism at its worst. You have descended to the lowest level of
      bigotry and racism. Shame on you.

      Eugene
      • ianek70 Obviously they're not all Poles... 13.02.06, 16:56
        ejmarkow napisał:

        > Extremely rude. I didn't realize you (or your sister) hate Poles so much.
        This
        > is Anti-Polonism at its worst. You have descended to the lowest level of
        > bigotry and racism. Shame on you.

        I'm simply reporting an interesting fact - there are now suddenly thousands of
        new people in Scotland with sexy foreign accents and white skins, they mostly
        have crap jobs (not because they want crap jobs) and since Poland accounts for
        half the population of the new EU member states (and is more famous than
        Slovenia or Lithuania) and therefore half of these new folk, people have
        started to associate these immigrants with Poland.
        As far as I know, most Scots are fairly indifferent to this new immigration, a
        lot find it interesting, and I haven't heard any open animosity towards it.
        Interpret that however you want, but don't say I hate Poles just because
        someone in a cafe in Edinburgh speaks bad English.
      • bluteau Re: "They're all Poles..." 13.02.06, 16:57
        If it was meant as self-criticism, as I think it was, then it's ok to relate it.

        I was very good friends with a black girl, Leslie, in high-school; we hung-out
        together for 4 years. When we met at the age of 12, skin colour wasn't an issue,
        and it remained so throughout our friendship. Then one fatal day we met with
        some other friends from another school; one of them (a white boy) said: you know
        what they call those bags you tie around your hips in my school? It's awful -
        they call them "nigger pouches." He did not intend to insult Leslie or make a
        racist comment. He was obviously disturbed by the term being used in his school.
        None the less, Leslie took very great offence and branded him a racist. When I
        tried to explain the situation to her, and defend this friend, she lashed out
        and called me a racist. She never spoke to me again. I'd like to think I was
        right in defending that boy and I think Leslie overreacted. I'd like to think
        what Ianek said about Poles in Britain was something along the same lines as the
        "nigger pouch" thing.
        • ianek70 Re: "They're all Poles..." 13.02.06, 18:25
          bluteau napisała:

          > If it was meant as self-criticism, as I think it was, then it's ok to relate
          it.

          It can't be self-criticism, because it's not my opinion.
          It's OK to relate anything, especially when it contradicts the crap and lies
          we've been fed by the Polish media for the past 2 years, that anyone with basic
          English and 5 pounds in their pocket can go to Britain, where they'll be
          unconditionally loved by everyone and immediately given a job as an accountant
          or bishop.

          > He did not intend to insult Leslie or make a
          > racist comment. He was obviously disturbed by the term being used in his
          school
          > .
          > None the less, Leslie took very great offence and branded him a racist.
          [...]
          > I'd like to think I was
          > right in defending that boy and I think Leslie overreacted. I'd like to think
          > what Ianek said about Poles in Britain was something along the same lines as
          > the "nigger pouch" thing.

          I think people's over-reaction is like Leslie's - the fact that someone QUOTES
          the N word or the P word doesn't mean he's got anything against Blacks or Poles.
          But some folk just want to be offended - I once wrote that Poland's mostly flat
          countryside was "mostly flat" and people got really offended. "Why do you hate
          Poland so much that you call our flat countryside flat?" they wrote.
          • bluteau Re: "They're all Poles..." 13.02.06, 18:30
            it contradicts the crap and lies
            > we've been fed by the Polish media for the past 2 years, that anyone with basic
            >
            > English and 5 pounds in their pocket can go to Britain, where they'll be
            > unconditionally loved by everyone and immediately given a job as an accountant
            > or bishop.

            Sacred words, Ian. Amen
            • mwanginjagi Re: "They're all Poles..." 13.02.06, 19:25
              For real, it's this kind of perverted Malevolence and complexes that anybody
              can have against Poles or any race, color or creed that shows how flimsy,
              shallow and phoney they are. This is simply abhorring and preposterous!!

              Pozdrawiam
              /Mwangi
          • nasza_maggie Re: "They're all Poles..." 14.02.06, 01:38
            bishops ?!??!?!?!?!??!?!
            YOU WHAT, Ian?????? smile)))))))

            right, that is it. no more brownie points for you just for being a Scotsman.
            and if I EVER hear that you went off to Scotland, without telling me first, and
            so not bringing me back any Irn Bru - THEN I WILL be REALLY OFFENDED Mr!!!!!!!

            smile
        • mwanginjagi Re: "They're all Poles..." 13.02.06, 19:32
          bluteau napisała:

          > If it was meant as self-criticism, as I think it was, then it's ok to relate
          it
          > .
          >
          > I was very good friends with a black girl, Leslie, in high-school; we hung-out
          > together for 4 years. When we met at the age of 12, skin colour wasn't an
          issue
          > ,
          > and it remained so throughout our friendship. Then one fatal day we met with
          > some other friends from another school; one of them (a white boy) said: you
          kno
          > w
          > what they call those bags you tie around your hips in my school? It's awful -
          > they call them "nigger pouches." He did not intend to insult Leslie or make a
          > racist comment. He was obviously disturbed by the term being used in his
          school
          > .
          > None the less, Leslie took very great offence and branded him a racist. When I
          > tried to explain the situation to her, and defend this friend, she lashed out
          > and called me a racist. She never spoke to me again. I'd like to think I was
          > right in defending that boy and I think Leslie overreacted. I'd like to think
          > what Ianek said about Poles in Britain was something along the same lines as
          th
          > e
          > "nigger pouch" thing.

          Now Bleutau, There is something we call common sense and it's the stuff that
          you talk when you are not drunk... apparently, it appears that you lack the
          very iota of it. You should know better than that and the black chick having
          left you for that reason was justifiable....

          I guess I shouldn't say much... think of what I am trying to drive thru and let
          me see if you see what I am talking about...

          And again, comparing such a situation with the one @ hand just beats logic...
          what planet are you from?

          Pozdrawiam
          /Mwangi
          • bluteau Re: "They're all Poles..." 13.02.06, 20:37
            Somebody expressing their disgust at such a racist term as "nigger pouch" by
            giving an example, i.e. "nigger pouch" is not racist. It's in fact the complete
            opposite. You were not there when it happened; I clearly wrote in my previous
            post that he was disturbed that the term was being used in his school. That's
            the only reason why I would defend someone who would utter the word "nigger".
            And yes, Leslie overreacted.

            I'm from the planet Earth and I've plenty of common sense. The relation between
            the thread started by Ian and my anegdote is that of people reacting too hastily.
              • bluteau Re: "They're all Poles..." 14.02.06, 07:17
                Spare me , Dave. It isn't a word I like throwing around, despite the example
                above. If you feel those posts containing the "n" word go against the principles
                and rules of this forum, then erase them. You're still the administrator, right?
                • bluteau Re: "They're all Poles..." 14.02.06, 10:12
                  >If you do find you've said something you want unsaid, the preferred way is to
                  >accept the fact that you said it and it is there, but add an apology for
                  >anything you feel afterwards was wrong.

                  I don't believe I wrote anything wrong in my posts here, but following the above
                  principle, and because I suggested my posts could be deleted if found offensive,
                  I would like to apologise to anyone who felt offended by my writing the "n"
                  word. It was not intended.
                  • usenetposts Re: "They're all Poles..." 14.02.06, 10:48
                    bluteau napisała:

                    > >If you do find you've said something you want unsaid, the preferred way is
                    > to
                    > >accept the fact that you said it and it is there, but add an apology for
                    > >anything you feel afterwards was wrong.
                    >
                    > I don't believe I wrote anything wrong in my posts here, but following the
                    abov
                    > e
                    > principle, and because I suggested my posts could be deleted if found
                    offensive
                    > ,
                    > I would like to apologise to anyone who felt offended by my writing the "n"
                    > word. It was not intended.

                    Well done for that apology. I don't think you did mean it in a racist way, for
                    the record, it's just that I think it's good practice not to write out that
                    word in full. There are conventions such as n*****, f***, c***, n*****-s******,
                    b******, etc, which allow us to give even the rudest examples without causing
                    undue offence. I just wanted to remind about that.
                    • nasza_maggie Re: "They're all Poles..." 14.02.06, 11:57
                      it's just that I think it's good practice not to write out that
                      > word in full. There are conventions such as n*****, f***, c***, n*****-
                      s******,
                      >
                      > b******, etc, which allow us to give even the rudest examples without causing
                      > undue offence. I just wanted to remind about that.



                      ha - points for trying. tried to implement that on EO.....
            • russh Re: "They're all Poles..." 14.02.06, 11:20
              Just to add me tuppence worth, I cannot see where the offence is Bluteau. It was quite clear that you
              were reporting an incident (as per Ian's post), and just as obvious the reasons for reporting it, and that
              you do not agree to its (n.....) use. There should have been zero offence in my book, as the word, albeit
              has awful historic connotations, was not used in an offensive way.

              This is political correctness at its worst again! Deny the existance of the past; re-write the history
              books!

              I would like to add that I am totally anti-racist, and anti almost every kind of discrimination - I don't
              give a damm what colour, creed or religion a person has. I do give a damm though when a person or
              people abuse our trust and goodwill.
              • usenetposts Race is one thing and creed is another 14.02.06, 11:46
                russh napisał:

                > Just to add me tuppence worth, I cannot see where the offence is Bluteau. It
                wa
                > s quite clear that you
                > were reporting an incident (as per Ian's post), and just as obvious the
                reasons
                > for reporting it, and that
                > you do not agree to its (n.....) use. There should have been zero offence in
                my
                > book, as the word, albeit
                > has awful historic connotations, was not used in an offensive way.

                I said I didn't think she was a racist, I simply pointed out that there are
                ways of talking about offensive language without actually using it. One of
                these posts had that word in it so many times, that even had the person been
                relishing it, rather than abhorring it, they could scarcely have used it more,
                and there's no need.

                >
                > This is political correctness at its worst again! Deny the existance of the
                pas
                > t; re-write the history
                > books!
                >
                > I would like to add that I am totally anti-racist, and anti almost every kind
                o
                > f discrimination - I don't
                > give a damm what colour, creed or religion a person has.

                Why does everybody put colour and race in the same bracket with creed and
                religion? Nobody is responsible for the race they are born into, neither are
                they responsible for whether they are clever or stupid, or come from a rich or
                poor background or are so ugly they cannot do anything about it or have a
                congenital disease, but we ARE responsible for what goes on in our heads, and
                we ARE able to choose our world view, our ethical code, and our religion, if
                any.

                Saying "race, colour and creed" or similar formulae is like mixing apples and
                radio frequencies. People above the level of an idiot are responsible for their
                philosophical, religious and ethical choices, they don't just happen to them,
                like being born a Swedish guy or an Albanian.

                > I do give a damm though
                > when a person or
                > people abuse our trust and goodwill.

                Assuming they have a choice in the matter, I agree.
      • ianek70 Work and sausages 13.02.06, 21:31
        bluteau napisała:

        > Incidently, I don't think this thread will get rave reviews or a warm
        reception
        > on the Praca: UK i Irlandia forum

        Surprisingly, it didn't.
        However the Praca na Wyspach forum is not for such trivial matters, but for
        serious intellectual discussions like "Why do Yorkshire people speak with a
        Yorkshire accent?", "Do you miss Polish sausage as much as I do?" and "How do
        the phones work?"
          • ianek70 Re: Work and sausages 14.02.06, 14:34
            nasza_maggie napisała:

            > bollox.

            Not!
            Although to be fair they do write more about wędliny than about sausages.
            "Should I take my TV with me?" is a good thread, as is "How do I buy my ticket?"
            And if they want to know how much money the UK taxpayers will give them, why
            don't they ask in the local social security office, instead of writing on a
            Polish forum and asking advice from people who don't even know how the phones
            work?
            smile
    • waldek1610 where did you got this definition,from Mein Kampf? 15.02.06, 00:36
      ianek70 napisał:

      > "Pole (noun): any foreigner on the minimum wage who doesn't understand
      > anything."

      How many British or for that matter Western Europeans who live in Poland
      (perheaps except Norman Davies or "our" Dave) are able to speak polish?

      Even Dave tells me a crap such;"Anglik nie potrzebuje umiec mowic po polsku, bo
      caly Swiat mowic po angielsku"....

      In USA its the so called "Mexicans" who are considered the low waged cheap
      labor, even though that so called "Mexican" is often actually a Dominican,
      Columbian or Cuban. But who cares, as long as they are happy I don't care if
      someone like Ianek wants to discriminate or make fun of them.
      • ianek70 Learn to read, find out what's happening... 15.02.06, 13:43
        waldek1610 napisał:

        > How many British or for that matter Western Europeans who live in Poland
        > (perheaps except Norman Davies or "our" Dave) are able to speak polish?

        That's a good question, but I don't know the answer.
        And neither do you, because you don't live in Europe.

        > Even Dave tells me a crap such;"Anglik nie potrzebuje umiec mowic po polsku,
        bo
        >
        > caly Swiat mowic po angielsku"....

        Maybe he thinks that if you look hard enough, you'll always find someone who
        knows some English. Or maybe he's joking. Who knows?

        > In USA its the so called "Mexicans" who are considered the low waged cheap
        > labor, even though that so called "Mexican" is often actually a Dominican,
        > Columbian or Cuban. But who cares, as long as they are happy I don't care if
        > someone like Ianek wants to discriminate or make fun of them.

        If for once you would read things before criticising them, you would know I
        wasn't making fun of anyone, simply reporting a fact.
        Many Poles complain that they're exploited in Western Europe (and in your
        country too), and given crap jobs that the locals don't want. In the recent EU
        expansion, about 80 million new people suddenly became EU citizens, including
        about 40 million Poles.
        So half the folk who get the crappy jobs the locals don't want are Poles, most
        of the rest are from smaller, less well-known lands. So people associate
        economic migration with Poland, as do most Poles. In fact, the Polish media is
        very proud of Poles' participation in this (as you'd know if you lived here).
        Have you seen the "Praca w UK i Irlandii" forum?
    • realitycheck Re: "They're all Poles..." 22.02.06, 07:36
      ianek70 napisał:

      > I was at my sister's the other week, near Edinburgh, and we went to a cafe,
      > where I ordered two teas, a cake and a sandwich.
      > "What, please?" said the man behind the counter.
      > I repeated my order several times, until eventually we got something to eat
      > and drink.
      > "Another Pole," said my sister in irritation.
      > He didn't look or sound Polish, I told her.
      > "That's what we call them. Who cares where they're from?"
      >
      > So check out next year's dictionaries:
      > "Pole (noun): any foreigner on the minimum wage who doesn't understand
      > anything."

      That’s an interesting story. I do have question for you.
      How do you feel about your sister making this particular remark?
      Since you felt the story is important enough to report on it, it is only natural
      to attempt to objectively evaluate possible reasons for making such statement.
      Being free from family relationships, which could possibly cloud my judgment, I
      can confidently say that only exceptionally stupid, ignorant and racist c**t is
      capable of making such comment.
      Ianek please tell me, when you sister says “we”, does she imply population of
      Edinburgh in general?

      Cheers
      • ianek70 Re: "They're all Poles..." 22.02.06, 11:02
        realitycheck napisał:

        > That’s an interesting story. I do have question for you.
        > How do you feel about your sister making this particular remark?

        Honestly?
        On the one hand, I found it quite funny (so did my daughter, who is Polish), as
        it clearly wasn't intended to be malicious. My definition may have been
        offensive to anyone who didn't notice the sarcasm.
        Words are very important in Scottish culture, and with the sudden influx of
        immigrants that people know nothing about, a new word was needed. Possibly they
        only use the word "Pole" in Edinburgh, probably there'll be a new, better and
        hopefully more accurate word soon.

        On the other hand, and this is why I mentioned it, it says a lot about how
        Poles (and other new immigrants) are perceived in Scotland, or at least in
        Edinburgh.
        Generally speaking, they haven't been there for long and haven't integrated
        into the local community. Some don't want to (they earn enough cash to pay for
        their studies and come back to Poland), others don't have to (they've got their
        own little Polish community), there's nothing wrong with that.
        As I mentioned a couple of times before, if you suddenly have a large group
        of "outsiders", where half of them are from a big country everyone's heard of
        (Poland), and half from small countries most people couldn't find on a map
        (Slovenia, Malta, Estonia), then it's almost a compliment to associate them all
        with the big country.

        As I also said, most Scots are either interested in or indifferent to this new
        immigration.
        I don't personally know any Poles in Scotland, but I have a lot of Polish
        friends in London and Ireland. Maybe they'd say something different about how
        they're seen by the locals. Whatever. I'm just reporting an interesting fact.


        > Being free from family relationships, which could possibly cloud my judgment,
        I
        > can confidently say that only exceptionally stupid, ignorant and racist c**t
        is
        > capable of making such comment.

        Are you calling my sister a cunt?
        • realitycheck Re: "They're all Poles..." 23.02.06, 05:44
          > realitycheck napisał:
          >
          ....................
          >
          > Are you calling my sister a cunt?

          Obviously, any possible denials on my part, will inherit sincerity of your
          explanation/apology, where you claim that perceived maliciousness of your
          comment is entirely due to the fact that intended recipients where unable to
          recognize the sarcasm.
          Alternatively, I can borrow your idea that negative stereotyping is really an
          “almost a compliment”
          Since this has worked for you, I don’t see a reason why a “stupid, ignorant and
          racist c**t” could not benefit from it.
          Take your pick, Ianek.

          Cheers.

          • russh Re: "They're all Poles..." 23.02.06, 07:12
            > Obviously, any possible denials on my part, will inherit sincerity of your
            > explanation/apology, where you claim that perceived maliciousness of your
            > comment is entirely due to the fact that intended recipients where unable to
            > recognize the sarcasm.

            ???? Fantastic variety of words, but what do they mean when you put them all
            together?

            > Since this has worked for you, I don’t see a reason why a “stupid,
            > ignorant and
            > racist c**t” could not benefit from it.

            You guys really need to lighten-up and get a reality check.
                  • ianek70 It's a men's thing :-) 25.02.06, 16:05
                    nasza_maggie napisała:

                    > stop it guys.
                    > it's not worth it.

                    He's too proud to admit that he didn't understand the original post, so he has
                    to continue with his bollocks about "How dare you use the word 'Pole', you
                    racist!"
                    And I'm prejudiced against people with comically pretentious nicks. "Reality
                    Check", aye, right... smile
                      • realitycheck Re: It's a men's thing :-) 25.02.06, 23:13
                        nasza_maggie napisała:

                        > I see.
                        > I am not sure if I understood the first post either but anyway....
                        > But surely you can do better than name calling, no?smile

                        Disturbingly short memory, maggie.
                        Hope it is worth it for you.
                    • realitycheck Re: It's a men's thing :-) 25.02.06, 23:09
                      ianek70 napisał:

                      > nasza_maggie napisała:
                      >
                      > > stop it guys.
                      > > it's not worth it.
                      >
                      > He's too proud to admit that he didn't understand the original post, so he has
                      > to continue with his bollocks about "How dare you use the word 'Pole', you
                      > racist!"
                      > And I'm prejudiced against people with comically pretentious nicks. "Reality
                      > Check", aye, right... smile

                      Apparently you are in dire need of reality check.
                      Find a fragment where I object the use of word “Pole”
                      Quote the entire post, please.
                      It looks like Maggie might want to give you a hand.

                      Ps. It‘s nice to see you follow the well-established pattern where lack of solid
                      arguments is signalized by an individual having objections to the opponent’s nick.
                      But don’t despair. You’ve still bailed out later then hip-hop lover.
                • realitycheck Re: "They're all Poles..." 25.02.06, 22:49
                  ianek70 napisał:

                  > realitycheck napisał:
                  >
                  > > Well, just tell your sister.....
                  >
                  > And your mother.

                  Well, your sister has a place in this thread; you have put her there, what
                  mother has to do with it?
                  Are you losing it (again) Ianek?
      • usenetposts Re: "They're all Poles..." 28.02.06, 13:39
        ianek70 napisał:

        > As I said, it's interesting how this new wave of immigrants is being
        perceived.
        >
        > www.theherald.co.uk/news/56992.html

        I note that, when asked if she was likely to stay in Scotland beyond her three
        years contract, she said "If I am still needed, then probably yes".

        I expect that after three years in Scotland she'll be saying something
        different in three years' time.

        "Aye, gan on, bonny lad, ah'll tek anuther thrae yeerrrs in ya canny wee
        country"

        Or is that a bit too Geordie?

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