Scandalous Papal Visit

[ianek70]

The Times has been writing about possible controversies during the pope's
visit:
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2190793,00.html
Let's take bets on what'll be the biggest scandal.

1. Radio Maryja
2. Ex-Hitlerjugend Pontiff in Auschwitz
3. Spy-Priests
4. Something else (e.g. Bishop Caught Molesting Young Boys)
5. Nothing - the entire Polish media will be mysteriously free of anything
controversial

I say it'll be 5.

[varsovian]

Won't we all be too drunk to notice

[nasza_maggie]

Hmmmmmm during 'Prohibicja"???

[ianek70]

nasza_maggie napisała:

> Hmmmmmm during 'Prohibicja"???

And apparently Mr. Roman G., responsible father, handsome intellectual and
useful member of society, is giving children a day off school.
This should delight parents and annoy babysitters, who will be forced to earn
money instead of sitting on their arses watching the same pictures of Benny 16
repeated all day on every single TV channel.

[varsovian]

I got a day off school when the Queen visited. As the Pope's a sort-of queen
and Giertych likes queens in fancy dress, it only seems right ...

[ianek70]

varsovian napisał:

> I got a day off school when the Queen visited. As the Pope's a sort-of queen
> and Giertych likes queens in fancy dress, it only seems right ...

But did the whole country get a day off when the Queen visited your school?

[varsovian]

That would be both lunatic and scandalous - only a complete twat would think up
something like that.

[marimax]

What a bunch of left wing eggheaded assholes.

[bluteau]

>[...] eggheaded [...]

At least you appreciate our intellect

[ejmarkow]

Urban and club "Nie" will surely write about some scandal that doesn't even
exist. You know how he adores provoking the Catholic church in Poland and the
Pope. Remember, provocation results in increased readership.

Yawn...

[ianek70]

marimax napisał:

> What a bunch of left wing eggheaded assholes.

So you're a papist, then, minimax?
And obviously an illiterate one, or one suffering from Attention Deficit
Disorder, since you either didn't read or didn't understand the previous posts
before childishly abusing people once again. Whatever.

[ja_karola]

ianek70 napisał:

> marimax napisał:
>
> > What a bunch of left wing eggheaded assholes.
>
> So you're a papist, then, minimax?
> And obviously an illiterate one, or one suffering from Attention Deficit
> Disorder, since you either didn't read or didn't understand the previous
posts
> before childishly abusing people once again. Whatever.


ADD - maybe, but I think marimax may actually be suffering from HCP as in the
High Conflict People disorder (in polish, simply "pieniacz").
The pharma industry are hard at work on a magical pill, but so far no results
so here are a few tips on how to approach this increasingly frequent condition:

- don't take things personally. Stop thinking you have to prove something to
this troubled person;
- don't kid yourself that you will ever get an HCP to see things your way, even
if you think your way is right;
- don't accuse an HCP of being amoral, evil, stupid, crazy - as tempting as it
might be;
- develop detachment. If an HCP launches into a fantastic story about
something that happened to him, say as neutrally as possible, "That's very
interesting";
- don't agree. Don't disagree. Don't pursue details. Change the subject so
you're not engaged in battles of what's true and what's not.


You gotta give it to him though.... what entertaining remarks he makes....

[ianek70]

ja_karola napisała:

> ADD - maybe, but I think marimax may actually be suffering from HCP as in the
> High Conflict People disorder (in polish, simply "pieniacz").

"Pieniacz"?
I thought the word was "fiut".

[firemouse]

One good thing of living in PRL was that it learned me to think ahead and make
necessary supplies

So I made my shopping today and nothing will disturb me...

This ban on alcohol sale is high on my private list of stupidities served by our
beloved government - together with "prohibicja" on Kid's Day.

[sobieski010]

Not to mention the ban on commercials for lingerie, Always, shower soap... and
other offensive products. I suppose they think the pope especially comes to
Poland to watch TV commercials...

[sobieski010]

I am already stockpiling now at home.
Do you think the alcohol ban is untill Friday 24.00 or untill the moment the
pope steps in the helicopter?
Once again a symbol how PIS wants to impose its values on the whole poulation.
Strangely there was no alcohol ban in force when Legia played champion lately...

[ianek70]

sobieski010 napisał:

> Not to mention the ban on commercials for lingerie, Always, shower soap... and
> other offensive products. I suppose they think the pope especially comes to
> Poland to watch TV commercials...

Presumably they don't advertise beer or toilet paper on Italian TV, and Benny
might be shocked that such things exist. So wherever he's staying, the kablówka
will be cut off, just in case he accidentally sees a bra advert on Bavaria
Rundfunk...
Apparently the ban on alcohol is only in the towns being visited by the pope,
which means that the person who'll suffer most is... the pope!
I'm sure a man of his age and temperament could drink a glass of wine with his
enormous meal without assaulting a cop, trashing a bus shelter or
shouting "arse!" at passers-by, but the law is the law, and he'll just have to
wait.

[firemouse]

This is absurd. Funny, how easy is to accept such a behaviour in a common
perspective...

[usenetposts]

I just got woken up by the police sirens of another convoy of coppers pouring
in up Grojecka from the provinces, howling like wolves.

That's why I'm here at such an ungodly hour of the morning!

[varsovian]

After a heavy night's drinking at university, I was appalled by the noise of
one vehicle going up the main street so I rushed to get pen and paper and shop
the so-and-so.
It was a British army tank.
I went back to bed.

INSPIRING Papal Visit

[marimax]

LONG LIVE THE POPE AND CATHOLIC FAITH

[ianek70]

marimax napisał:

> LONG LIVE THE POPE AND CATHOLIC FAITH

If you need someone to tell you how to live, then be as inspired as you want.
I don't reckon he'll live very long, though, the Vatican saw what a good advert
Wojtyła's funeral was and chose a 74 year old to replace him.

UNINSPIRING Papal Visit

[portulaco]

Benedetto XVI is now in Poland... ok, a human being with an important job
decided to leave his office.

Big deal!

Portulaco: From the country of the UFO miracle of Fatima and Sister Lucia who
said in 1917 that actually what she saw was something looking like the devil...
believe it or not...

Statistics

[ianek70]

So, Day 2 in the Big Brother house and no scandals yet.

The Wyborcza has been publishing surveys comparing Poles' and Germans'
attitudes to Benny 16 and religion in general.
Most of these are completely meaningless, but there have been a couple of
interesting figures.
25% of Germans know that Ratzinger is in Poland, among the Catholic minority
this figure rises to 30%.
1% of Poles consider themselves non-believers, and 1% are unsure.
In Poland 85% think B16 should spread the Kult of the Virgin Mary, and 69%
believe he should invent more saints. This is in contrast with Germany, where
people are predominantly monotheists.

[marimax]

Don't worry about statistics, you jerk
You and your commies friends from this forum will end up in hell anyway.
There is no hope for you, stinky pinkos.

[portulaco]

Don't worry about statistics, you jerk
> You and your commies friends from this forum will end up in hell anyway.
> There is no hope for you, stinky pinkos.

You should say that to me in person prick!

Make my day punk!

"Commies"? ha ha ha

[ianek70]

marimax napisał:

> Don't worry about statistics, you jerk
> You and your commies friends from this forum will end up in hell anyway.
> There is no hope for you, stinky pinkos.

"Stinky pinkos"???
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Ha ha ha.
Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho.
So that's all you've got to say on the theological and civil liberties aspects
of the papal visit, you frustrated, boring little man?
It must be great fun in your sad, bitter, humourless, unimaginitive world where
anyone with an opinion different from yours (which is everyone, since you don't
even have any opinions) is a "stinky pinko".
"Stinky pinko".
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Wanker.

oh stop it.......... n/t

[nasza_maggie]

[ianek70]

But it's funny.
"Stinky pinkos".
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Ha ha.
Ho ho ho ho ho.

[portulaco]

Can somebody explain me what the heck is a pinko???

If it's something shocking, send message to [e-mail]

Thank you!

[ianek70]

portulaco napisał:

> Can somebody explain me what the heck is a pinko???

It means that marimax is loco en el coco, and he thinks that anyone who
indirectly criticises the pope's visit must be a communist
This is a surprisingly common form of paranoia among Polish "patriots" who live
thousands of kilometres from Poland and have no idea about life here.

.......

[nasza_maggie]

www.pinko.com.cn/
www.democraticunderground.com/auntie/index.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinko

[usenetposts]

marimax napisał:

> Don't worry about statistics, you jerk
> You and your commies friends from this forum will end up in hell anyway.
> There is no hope for you, stinky pinkos.

According to Catholicism, you go to heaven by having someone sprinkle water on
your head when you are a baby.

How likely is that?

seriously STOP IT

[nasza_maggie]

why o why
are you letting yourself get into some silly squabble
and making it now into a religious squabble

why.
what is the point.

I know everyone has their own opinion, but hey youre all bound to offend
eachother here in the process.

You have already.

So LEAVE IT OUT and ignore the troll.

[firemouse]

Hey, you've changed the face! Some plastic surgery?

Can't decide if I like your new entourage.

[usenetposts]

firemouse napisał:

> Hey, you've changed the face! Some plastic surgery?
>
> Can't decide if I like your new entourage.


Who's changed? I haven't changed. I have always been fairly outspoken about
what I think.

Sir Uncle D

[firemouse]

This is a post addressed to Maggie and she will certainly understand it (I hope
at least).

[usenetposts]

Now I get it. She used to be Dot Cotton, and now she's a straw version of
Winnie the Pooh's friend Piglet.

[ejmarkow]

usenetposts napisał:

> Now I get it. She used to be Dot Cotton, and now she's a straw version of
> Winnie the Pooh's friend Piglet.

Maggie put her foot down at the right moment. It is often necessary to do so.

[nasza_maggie]

What is it with this forum and the obsession of what I look like?

I don't mind people having their own opinions. It's right to do so.
But at the end of the day it's about being different and accepting those
differences. It's very simple.

I really don't see what being a Catholic has anything to do with what max or
anyone says. And personally, I haven't attacked anyone along that line ever.
Maybe Waldo got on my nerves but then he want TOO far attacking people
personally and not their opinions and there is some of that attitude cropping
up again.

As a regular participant of this forum I know the regulars and their background
a little from what they say and try to remeber that in any of my comments.

I'm a bit dissapointed that religious beliefs seem to be attacked here way too
often in terms of replying to other users. To put it lightly.

At the end of the day just because some muslims or sikhs, or catholics or
protestants do stupid things I don't see why I should be the same. Doing that
and putting it down to faith is just an excuse. Just because they happen to be
of a certain faith doesn't mean all people of that faith have the same views.


I see it as a PERSON first.

Please don't let yourself be provoked by people who have little or no idea at
all about the views they think they represent.

Sticks and stones.....

[usenetposts]

nasza_maggie napisała:

> What is it with this forum and the obsession of what I look like?

I don't care what you look like. I was just trying to work out what Firemouse
was talking about. I realised that he was probably referring to your wizytowka.
I don't care what you look like, seriously. I am happily married and so are you.

> I don't mind people having their own opinions. It's right to do so.
> But at the end of the day it's about being different and accepting those
> differences. It's very simple.

Everyone is accepted.

>
> I really don't see what being a Catholic has anything to do with what max or
> anyone says. And personally, I haven't attacked anyone along that line ever.

Nobody was attacked by me for being a Catholic, but the fact is that Catholic
doctrines include some things which I don't agree with AND AM AT LIBERTY TO
DISCUSS. Now this guy, marimax or whatever, made out that Communists would go
to hell, in response to which I reminded him that the Catholic Church has an
unlikely doctrine - a biblically untenable doctrine - that infants who are
baptised go to heaven and unbaptised ones go to hell. Now that's an interesting
and crucial subject and is not taboo, on this group. It can be discussed. Or,
if not, I shall simply do what you know I will do if freedom of speech is
curtailed.

> Maybe Waldo got on my nerves but then he want TOO far attacking people
> personally and not their opinions and there is some of that attitude cropping
> up again.
>

No, I am not attacking anybody on a personal basis. I have not attacked one
single person on a personal basis.

> As a regular participant of this forum I know the regulars and their
background
>
> a little from what they say and try to remeber that in any of my comments.
>
> I'm a bit dissapointed that religious beliefs seem to be attacked here way
too
> often in terms of replying to other users. To put it lightly.

Religious beliefs are absolutely fair game for challenge and discussion, as
long as this is not done in a blasphemous way. A person ought not to be
attacked with regard to their race and their physical appearacne, since these
matters are not of the choice and free will of the individual. I absolutely
refuse attacking any races in this group, and any physical disadvantage such as
shortness, baldness, gingerness, disease, etc in this group. People cannot do
anything about these matters, and since we didn't do anything to deserve being
born the way we are born and not in someone else's shoes, we ought to treat
such people as equals and with respect.

But a person's beliefs and opinions are not the same, despite the fact that
people sometimes parrot the ridiculous phrase "race, colour and creed" as if
the third were the same thing that just landed on a person as the first two
are. This is untrue, and unhelpful. Intelligent people, even averagely
intelligent people, shoul in this day and age be expected to think out their
views and take responsibility for their views. Therefore the challenge to a
person's religious doctrine, their political doctrine, their moral compass -
these this are all pretty valid challenges. If a person cannot defend their
opinions, they can always say, "don't attack my weltanschauung, don't challenge
my opinions, as I have never thought them out for myself, I just inherited them
from someone else and never did any due diligence of my own on them" and we
will know what we are dealing with and approach that poor dumb victim with the
requisite intellectual delicacy.

>
> At the end of the day just because some muslims or sikhs, or catholics or
> protestants do stupid things I don't see why I should be the same. Doing that
> and putting it down to faith is just an excuse. Just because they happen to
be
> of a certain faith doesn't mean all people of that faith have the same views.
>

I don't thing I ever said they did, but nonetheless Catholic doctrine is set
out in the catechism and - to a less binding effect - in the new Advent
Encyclopedia. I have never suggested that any particular Catholic accepts all
the doctrine. Some catholics are very protestant, with a small "p", about their
faith. But I was talking to Marimax, a conservative catholic.

>
> I see it as a PERSON first.

OK, you want to see Marimax as a person first. Fine. I agree with you.

But I thought we already had seen what sort of person we are dealing with.

>
> Please don't let yourself be provoked by people who have little or no idea at
> all about the views they think they represent.
>

I asked him about his view of heaven, and the way of entry to heaven in that
way, since he had stated that pinkoes go to hell. My hope is that he would be
able to substantiate his claim that pinkoes go to hell, but he has not been
able to do so, and it is his responsibility to do so if he felt able to claim
on this forum that they will go to hell.

> Sticks and stones.....
>

Precisely. So why worry about what people say? It's a free market of views.

[ejmarkow]

Here on this forum, as in any other forum, it is difficult to even assess who
everyone really is. Sure, there are the few of us on this forum that reveal our
full identities via the wizytowka or personal web pages. At least, with these
individuals, we have an 'idea' of who they really are. Of course this is their
option and everyone has the right to personal privacy protection. Still, how
can we verify that is even an honest representation of who that person is? When
someone on this forum uses only their nick and they 'claim' to be a particular
person, ethnicity, religion, or allegedly have a certain occupation...how do we
really know if that person is telling us the truth? There can also be
individuals on any given forum utilizing 'several' nicks or identities. How do
we know who those people are? Well, that's were IP address identification would
come in really handy. If GW gave access of this feature to the owner or
moderator of any given forum, this would a valuable instrument in detecting
trolls and troublemakers. Every website, forum, and e-mail service can readily
trace any given IP address to the original source. I know this too well because
IT is a hobby of mine and I'm very familiar with it. It is a fact, without any
doubt, that GW has such access. The question is, do they, or would they be
willing to share such information to combat misconduct? There are also
troublemakers that will come on to a given forum to incite hatred and falsely
represent themselves. The only way to know somebody better is to meet them in
person.

[ja_karola]

Eugene,
It's true that the forum allows for a certain degree of anonimity, but I would
imagine that most do not suffer from split personality disorders and do not
assume other people's identities when joining discussion groups. Then again,
one never knows as I remember hearing of a case of one blogger (female) whose
entire life turned out to be completely fictional and made up by a different
individual (male). Still, I would think that most have no reason to post false
statements... Marimax is an obvious case of a provocateur who may very well
butt in from time to time just to spice things up. He may in fact be in
agreement with most that's discussed on this forum, but likes to see people get
aggravated....

>There can also be individuals on any given forum utilizing 'several' nicks or
>identities. How do we know who those people are?

Should you be referring to my past entry under a different nick, maybe I should
have clarified that before I posted my reply, I went off to the bathroom. My
mother took the opp to sign in to check her mail, and when I got back, I
unknowingly replied under her nick. I didn't think it appropriate to provide
this many details in my explanation in the following post, but hey, when nature
calls....

As for the IP address identification, I'm far from being an expert, but can't
one choose to have a new IP assigned each time one logs in to the Internet?
I'd have to ask our IT guy at work, but I thought the IP number changed each
time. Besides, what if you use different computers to log in? I use my home
PC and sometimes my work laptop to check in what's new on FLiP. Wouldn't that
be an obstacle in identifying the rabble-rousers?

And finally, did any of you ever actually meet in person? I briefly looked
over some of the entries dating from a year ago. I noticed that Uncle Dave was
offered to lend a helping hand to some who were looking for a job in PL and
some of you regulars have been here from the beginning. Have any of you ever
met face-to-face? And if not, was such a reunion ever suggested, discussed?

Karolina

[ejmarkow]

ja_karola napisała:

> Should you be referring to my past entry under a different nick, maybe I
> should have clarified that before I posted my reply, I went off to the
> bathroom.

Not at all. I didn't even realize you had a different nick.

> As for the IP address identification, I'm far from being an expert, but can't
> one choose to have a new IP assigned each time one logs in to the Internet?

This is defined as having a 'dynamic IP address', where your provider (or an
elegant script) changes your IP each time you log on to the internet. That is
the opposite of having a 'Static IP address', where you have the same address
each time. Then there is another advanced method know as 'IP spoofing', where
the attacker 'hijacks' the IP address of an innocent user. The good news is,
there are sophisticated methods available to counter this.

> And finally, did any of you ever actually meet in person?

Dave and the others invited me twice, once to Warsaw and the second time to
Katowice, and both times I had minor reasons for not showing up. I'm almost
sure some of the members of FLIP have already met one another.

> And if not, was such a reunion ever suggested, discussed?

Dave has worked very hard at it and he deserves enormous credit. Most of us
just seem to spoil the plan somehow. We need a good kick in the bottom! I'm an
optimist and a successful meeting is bound to occur sooner or later.

Eugene

[usenetposts]

ejmarkow napisał:

> ja_karola napisała:
>
> > Should you be referring to my past entry under a different nick, maybe I
> > should have clarified that before I posted my reply, I went off to the
> > bathroom.
>
> Not at all. I didn't even realize you had a different nick.
>
> > As for the IP address identification, I'm far from being an expert, but c
> an't
> > one choose to have a new IP assigned each time one logs in to the Interne
> t?
>
> This is defined as having a 'dynamic IP address', where your provider (or an
> elegant script) changes your IP each time you log on to the internet. That is
> the opposite of having a 'Static IP address', where you have the same address
> each time. Then there is another advanced method know as 'IP spoofing', where
> the attacker 'hijacks' the IP address of an innocent user. The good news is,
> there are sophisticated methods available to counter this.
>
> > And finally, did any of you ever actually meet in person?
>
> Dave and the others invited me twice, once to Warsaw and the second time to
> Katowice, and both times I had minor reasons for not showing up. I'm almost
> sure some of the members of FLIP have already met one another.
>
> > And if not, was such a reunion ever suggested, discussed?
>
> Dave has worked very hard at it and he deserves enormous credit. Most of us
> just seem to spoil the plan somehow. We need a good kick in the bottom! I'm
an
> optimist and a successful meeting is bound to occur sooner or later.
>
> Eugene

Maybe we can meet up at my place and watch the final together!

I've got quite a bit of beer left over from my parents' visit, as the weather
was not warm enough for such profilic use of beer as I had provided. Now, being
on a diet, I need someone to help me drink it up.

[firemouse]

usenetposts napisał:

> nasza_maggie napisała:
>
> > What is it with this forum and the obsession of what I look like?
>
> I don't care what you look like. I was just trying to work out what Firemouse
> was talking about. I realised that he was probably referring to your wizytowka.

That's right, I had her wizytowka in mind.

Funny, the image has changed, but then it changed again. I was just playing some
fun.

I think we all should react to other's messages and the discussed events
(especially religious ones) in more relaxed way. This is only forum. We exchange
wievs. Sure we should express critics but I am confused to see unjustified
aggression in some posts. Nothing personally, this happens from time to time and
probably I did it too.

I am also not obsessed by the look of Maggie. One day I will know it or not.
It's not aim of my life. I am more interested in finding nice plants to my garden.

[nasza_maggie]

> I am also not obsessed by the look of Maggie. One day I will know it or not.
> It's not aim of my life. I am more interested in finding nice plants to my
gard
> en.

))))))))) Funny you should say that, mine have been gobbled up by green-
flies...

[nasza_maggie]

usenetposts napisał:


> Precisely. So why worry about what people say? It's a free market of views.
>



Dave

Thanks for that essay. I must say I did find it a bit patronising but there you
go...


What I was reffering to is that almost too often you undeline how Protestant
you are and how Catholics/Muslims etc. are wrong, bad, silly...

Sometimes there's a little bit too much of that looking down at others. But hey
this is the wirtten word not spoken, so theres no tone so there's always an
excuse


I hate putting people in boxes or categories and I just think you do that too
much....

I am in now way excusing max, I think a troll is just best left alone.
Otherwise, the flaming causes too many rifts between regular uses, which is
probably what he's aming at.

[usenetposts]

nasza_maggie napisała:

> usenetposts napisał:
>
>
> > Precisely. So why worry about what people say? It's a free market of view
> s.
> >
>
>
>
> Dave
>
> Thanks for that essay. I must say I did find it a bit patronising but there
you
>
> go...
>

So it's okay for you to lecture and patronise me but not all right for me to
lecture and patronise you.

Just so's we know.

>
> What I was reffering to is that almost too often you undeline how Protestant
> you are and how Catholics/Muslims etc. are wrong, bad, silly...
>

I am perfectly entitled to stand up for my world view. We have had a faceful of
Roman Catholicism restricting our freedom for the last few days, and my natural
reaction to that is to let off a bit of steam. I don't view Catholics or
Catholicism on a par with Islam, though.

Catholics are not my enemy. In many respects, I believe the same thing as
Catholics do, even conservative ones.

> Sometimes there's a little bit too much of that looking down at others. But
hey
>

I don't think that the discussion of views and ideas means looking down at
others. I don't think you can quote me an instance where I have turned
discussion of these ISSUES into a personal attack on anyone.

> this is the wirtten word not spoken, so theres no tone so there's always an
> excuse
>

You seem to have gotten into a strange way of misinterpreting what I say, so
I'll let that be your excuse.

>
> I hate putting people in boxes or categories and I just think you do that too
> much....
>

Actually I don't do it at all. I put issues and ideas in boxes. I haven't put
any individuals in any boxes.

You, by saying I have done that, when I haven't, appear to be putting me in a
box, on the other hand.

> I am in now way excusing max, I think a troll is just best left alone.
> Otherwise, the flaming causes too many rifts between regular uses, which is
> probably what he's aming at.

You know, why don't you let me be the best judge of what I write, to whom, and
how? Until you can do that, don't even think about calling ME patronising.

[tess77]

"the Catholic Church has an
unlikely doctrine - a biblically untenable doctrine - that infants who are
baptised go to heaven and unbaptised ones go to hell"
This is simply not true.
1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only
entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them.
Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and
Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children
come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of
salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is
the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the
gift of holy Baptism

[marcus_anglikiem]

i think that mini's condemnation of persons - certain fellow members of FLiP to
hell - who he knows only via a forum (!) can well and should be laughed at and,
perhaps even pitied(?) I agree with portaluco here that such things should be
said in person and to persons personally known (though i'm not saying there
aren't exceptions to this rule - for example certain types of criminal, and
terrorists, can surely be condemned to rot in hell without personal
acquaintance.)

[minimus]

> i think that mini's condemnation of persons - certain fellow members of FLiP
to

mini's????
What do you mean?

[nasza_maggie]

i think marcus meant maxi

minimus
and
marimax

easy to confuse

[marcus_anglikiem]

you're right. i do apologise minimus.

[minimus]

np
you know this yin & yan thing?
I think thats what its called.

Papal visit

[marimax]

So what are you going to say now you atheist egg headed pinkos.
The Pope received an enthusiastic welcome in Poland.
Hundreds of thousands people attend every mass.
Kochamy Cie
We Love YOu
Wir Lieben Dich
Rot in hell you bastards

[usenetposts]

marimax napisał:

> So what are you going to say now you atheist egg headed pinkos.
> The Pope received an enthusiastic welcome in Poland.
> Hundreds of thousands people attend every mass.
> Kochamy Cie
> We Love YOu
> Wir Lieben Dich
> Rot in hell you bastards

In the Bible, it doesn't say that we escape hell by greeting the Pope.

As far as I could make out from what has happened here in Poland, Catholics
could do worse than to pay more attention to what this Pope actually says,
rather than what they think he says.

People seem to think that this is JPII's Minime, but from a Protestant
perspective, I would say this is, thankfully, not the case.

JP focussed far too heavily on the cult of Mary, a sinful piece of false
worship that offends both Christ and the real Mary, who knows well that her Son
is the only correct recipient of such worship. She has been used as excuse for
syncretists to resurrect the Pagan Goddess, but this was not her role in the
early church, nor in the Bible.

Now B16 has been to Jasna Gora. I cannot fault him for that, I have also been
to Jasna Gora, although I did not pray to Mary, only to the Father in Jesus'
name. B16 has made the message of faith and the message of Christ as the center
of faith his most importnant message. He has also spoken of forgiving the
sinner in church and receiving them back, rather than chasing them away from
the church.

He did not tell atheists to go rot in hell, and had you stood next to him and
said "atheist pinkos should rot in hell", I do believe he would have distanced
himself from your words.

If you are a Catholic, or any other Denomination in the Church, try also to be
a Christian. There is no point in being a Catholic or a Protestant also for
that matter, if all we can do is gloat over the perishing of the unbeliever.
God is not like that. Look up where God says "I have no pleasure in the death
of him that dieth, saith the Lord God, wherefore turn yourselves, and live
ye". It is Ezekiel 18:32.

We do not get to heaven by joining a Church, we do not get to heaven by voting
for G W Bush. We get to heaven despite not being able ever to be good enough to
deserve it by repenting of our sins and believing on Jesus and what He did for
us, in being born of a virgin, living perfectly as God on earth, being brutally
and injustly murdered in our stead, and being raised agin the third day.

You don't deserve God to have died for you any more than the pinkoes do, so
don't wish hell on them, pray for them to have faith instead, and behave in a
way that might help them do so, if you can.

[ianek70]

marimax napisał:

> Hundreds of thousands people attend every mass.
> Kochamy Cie
> We Love YOu
> Wir Lieben Dich
> Rot in hell you bastards

As for the first three, fair enough, but I didn't hear hundreds of thousands of
pilgrims chanting "Rot in hell you bastards" at the pope and his friends. Maybe
you do have an imagination after all...
Anyway, if hell existed it would be full of flaming popes, since (if you
believe what the Bible says) idolatry and usurpation of Christ are worse sins
than buying beer or advertising tampons.

Disappointing Papal Visit

[ianek70]

ianek70 napisał:

> Let's take bets on what'll be the biggest scandal.
>
> 1. Radio Maryja
> 2. Ex-Hitlerjugend Pontiff in Auschwitz
> 3. Spy-Priests
> 4. Something else (e.g. Bishop Caught Molesting Young Boys)
> 5. Nothing - the entire Polish media will be mysteriously free of anything
> controversial
>
> I say it'll be 5.

And of course I was right.

Anyway, it was all a big disappointment. I was expecting Benny to say something
new and interesting.
His message was basically that love is good, and evil is bad.
This is obvious to most sensible people, so why spend a day in a crowded muddy
field to listen to someone whose job is to tell you things you already know?
The rest of his message was the usual stuff about blind faith and false hope,
and how these things are great.
"God is love" he said. And in Auschwitz he asked, "Why, Lord, did you remain
silent?" I was disappointed that he didn't answer that question...

www.theherald.co.uk/news/62896.html

The opinions of some old people were divided as to whether the rainbow visible
in Oświęcim yesterday was a sign that God or JP 2 was watching over, but I was
nearby and can confirm that it was caused by the afternoon's heavy rainfall.

[firemouse]

ianek70 napisał:


> Anyway, it was all a big disappointment. I was expecting Benny to say something
>
> new and interesting.

Hey, he did. He said that people do not expect priests to be experts in politics
or economics, but in contacts with God.

For the first time since a long time Vatican says to priests: refrain from
politics. Mind your own business.

Also he sad that priests should follow emigrants to where they go to continue
the religious work.

So... Radio Maryja UK?

FM

[nasza_maggie]

It's a bit sad Ian that you are such a cynic.

[ianek70]

nasza_maggie napisała:

> It's a bit sad Ian that you are such a cynic.

I'm just a realist.
Polish law allows Catholics to feel sorry for realists, but anyone who calls
Catholics naive or superstitious is an evil criminal who insults the religious
feelings of the masses.
Ratzinger's a cynic.
He has no respect for people, he just repeats the same old cliches, lies and
hypocritical nonsense, and enjoys the applause. He may believe some of the
things he says, but that's his problem.
He's an adult who still believes in angels, demons and magic paintings, that's
his chosen career. He's a national hero in a country where his organisation has
a monopoly on brainwashing children, where his idolatrous symbols hang on the
walls of parliament and where Giertych is minister of education.
He's a man who has problems adapting to the realities of the 21st century and,
quite understandably, feels a strong affinity with a country in the same
situation.

[marcus_anglikiem]

well said. someone standing up for us for once. though unlike the religious
people it seems to me that WE don't always have to jump up and down convincing
everyone (perhaps themselves too in some cases?) On the contrary most of us
seem to find it sufficient to relax, confident in ourselves, quietly not paying
very much attention to the beliefs of others, finding it amusing when they feel
sorry for us, a big joke when they tell us we'll go to hell... and secretly,
not out of timidity or fear, but just because we really don't care, feeling
sorry for them...

[nasza_maggie]

marcus_anglikiem napisał:

> well said. someone standing up for us for once.

who is US???

though unlike the religious
> people it seems to me that WE don't always have to jump up and down
convincing
> everyone (perhaps themselves too in some cases?)

I'm not religious.

On the contrary most of us
> seem to find it sufficient to relax, confident in ourselves, quietly not
paying
>
> very much attention to the beliefs of others, finding it amusing when they
feel
>
> sorry for us,

So that is cynism.
It's you who are saying 'them' and 'us'. I'm not.

a big joke when they tell us we'll go to hell


I didn't. Ever seen a film called 'the believer'?


... and secretly,
> not out of timidity or fear, but just because we really don't care, feeling
> sorry for them...

So you judge others on the basis of that cynism. And like I said I don't feel
sorry for you.
What I find amusing is that you think Giertych is an idiot Rm etc. and then you
judge others on the basis of the crap he says. So you use his idelogy to have a
laugh. Which is quite peculiar.

[nasza_maggie]

ianek70 napisał:

> nasza_maggie napisała:
>
> > It's a bit sad Ian that you are such a cynic.
>
> I'm just a realist.

Nie do końca.


> Polish law allows Catholics to feel sorry for realists, but anyone who calls
> Catholics naive or superstitious is an evil criminal who insults the
religious
> feelings of the masses.

Show me the paragraph.

> Ratzinger's a cynic.

> He has no respect for people, he just repeats the same old cliches, lies and
> hypocritical nonsense, and enjoys the applause. He may believe some of the
> things he says, but that's his problem.

Have you met him? have you read anything of his? Have you AT LEAST listened to
anything he said whilst being here? No.....
I don't think he sees it as a problem. It is his faith. And saying he has no
respect is bo"""ks. You obviously need a transcript of his speech in Oświęcim.

> He's an adult who still believes in angels, demons and magic paintings,
that's
> his chosen career.

It is his faith. And it's not about angels, demons and paintings. You seem to
know FA about religion...

He's a national hero in a country where his organisation has
>
> a monopoly on brainwashing children, where his idolatrous symbols hang on the
> walls of parliament and where Giertych is minister of education.

Once again, you clearly did not do your research and paid no attention to what
he said whilst being here. It was adressed to the idiots like Giertych and
radio Maryja and to people who like yourself identify the church=radio
maryja=giertych.

And this is why RM annoys me, because people like yourself, on the basis of
what some silly people say there, base their beleiefs about the other
Poles/catholics on the pathetic theories that RM has.

> He's a man who has problems adapting to the realities of the 21st century
and,
> quite understandably, feels a strong affinity with a country in the same
> situation.

Well that is the problem. Why should people ADAPT to slogans like 'the 21st
century'. There are values and belefs from the past which are still good and
still ahould be kept up in order to prevent us form today's madness. I don't
see as there being enything wrong with that. Sometimes, people need guidance
Ian. And you saying it is brainwashing is far fetched.

I'm not very religious, I'm not one to run to church all the time and to
believe everything the church or every priest says. But I have respect for
people who know what they are talking about. Sometimes Ian I get the idea that
you just throw your words around without having done the research....


ps: I don't feel sorry for you. At all.

Catholics vs "Catholics"

[ianek70]

nasza_maggie napisała:

> Show me the paragraph.

No.
But you know it's illegal to insult uczucia religijne, and you know what that
means in practice.

> Have you met him? have you read anything of his? Have you AT LEAST listened
to
> anything he said whilst being here?

Yes. It was difficult not to.
Have you met him? How many of the people who claim to "love" him have ever even
stood near him?

> I don't think he sees it as a problem. It is his faith. And saying he has no
> respect is bo"""ks. You obviously need a transcript of his speech in Oświęcim.

So how did he explain his god's absence/silence during the Holocaust?
He said a lot yesterday about the Holocaust being a crime against God, and
about it being the result of people turning their back on God, so how does he
justify that? The murder of millions of human beings is a crime against people,
and not against absent/silent deities who feel no pain and leave no orphans.

> > He's an adult who still believes in angels, demons and magic paintings,
> that's
> > his chosen career.
>
> It is his faith. And it's not about angels, demons and paintings. You seem to
> know FA about religion...

OK, he doesn't believe in angels, demons or magic paintings, and didn't choose
a career in the church.
So how did he become major ideologue and then leader of an organisation which
teaches the importance of these things?


> He's a national hero in a country where his organisation has
> >
> > a monopoly on brainwashing children, where his idolatrous symbols hang on
> the
> > walls of parliament and where Giertych is minister of education.
>
> Once again, you clearly did not do your research and paid no attention to
what
> he said whilst being here. It was adressed to the idiots like Giertych and
> radio Maryja and to people who like yourself identify the church=radio
> maryja=giertych.

I don't identify Radio M with the Vatican, and I know that Rydzyk and Romek
aren't pals any more.
But I do find the Polish Church's tolerance and lack of action against these
people extremely hypocritical. They tolerated Jankowski, they enjoy the
attention of the Kaczyńskis, they don't say much about Giertych (although I
believe they hate him as much as everyone else does), Radio Maryja still hasn't
been shut down. It won't be, but that's a matter of politics, not religion.
A lot of blind hypocritical pseudo-Catholics support both the Vatican (which I
don't like, and have explained why) and these other right-wing mohair-arses
(whom I also don't like, but for different reasons).

> And this is why RM annoys me, because people like yourself, on the basis of
> what some silly people say there, base their beliefs about the other
> Poles/catholics on the pathetic theories that RM has.

Radio Maryja may have pathetic theories, but it is hugely successful. Partly
because many Poles tolerate the state's patronage of Rydzyk (that "nadawca
społeczny" bullshit), partly because his populist demagogic shite is
appreciated by many sad, misguided old folks.
The Catholic Church is also popular, partly because many Poles are afraid not
to christen their babies (What will the neighbours think?), partly because it
dishes out simplistic slogans like "God has a plan, so you don't need one"
or "Worship statues - it's cool", but mainly because it is a highly developed
brain-washin', money-makin', shiny-thing obsessed bureacracy.
RM is cynical and fascistic, the KK is cynical and superstitious.
Or maybe they're both just naive.

[nasza_maggie]

ianek70 napisał:

> nasza_maggie napisała:
>
> > Show me the paragraph.
>
> No.
> But you know it's illegal to insult uczucia religijne, and you know what that
> means in practice.

It is illegal to do that in most places. But that is not as bad as living in
North Korea for example. In actual fact in this country that 'law' is open to
interpretation. Like in many others. But the outcome always depends upon who is
in power. Like in other countries.
In practice it means that Giertych etc will run around shooting his mouth off
and nobody will really listen. Apart from OAPs who have free time to do so.
Others will just laugh at him.
In Afghanistan or Iran it probably means getting your head kicked in by your
neghbours at the local football field.


>
> > Have you met him? have you read anything of his? Have you AT LEAST listen
> ed
> to
> > anything he said whilst being here?
>
> Yes. It was difficult not to.
> Have you met him? How many of the people who claim to "love" him have ever
even
>
> stood near him?

I have not. But because the church annoys me I pay attention to what the Pope
says. As far as love goes it isn't for me to decide who others want to love. if
it is the Pope then fine, I see no harm in that.

>
> > I don't think he sees it as a problem. It is his faith. And saying he has
> no
> > respect is bo"""ks. You obviously need a transcript of his speech in Oświ
> ęcim.
>
> So how did he explain his god's absence/silence during the Holocaust?

He's not here to explain God's absence. He questioned that absence as we all
did.
> He said a lot yesterday about the Holocaust being a crime against God, and
> about it being the result of people turning their back on God, so how does he
> justify that?

He's not the one to justyfy it and explain that to us. i don't think any human,
even the Pope can do that.

The murder of millions of human beings is a crime against people,
>
> and not against absent/silent deities who feel no pain and leave no orphans.

It was a crime of people against people not God against people.
>
> > > He's an adult who still believes in angels, demons and magic painti
> ngs,
> > that's
> > > his chosen career.
> >
> > It is his faith. And it's not about angels, demons and paintings. You see
> m to
> > know FA about religion...
>
> OK, he doesn't believe in angels, demons or magic paintings, and didn't
choose
> a career in the church.
> So how did he become major ideologue and then leader of an organisation which
> teaches the importance of these things?

Like I said that is YOUR interpretation of religion. I don't see the church as
teaching me the importance of that. I pay no attention to demons or angels or
paintings. I pay attention to what is in my head and the decisions I make.


>
>
> > He's a national hero in a country where his organisation has
> > >
> > > a monopoly on brainwashing children, where his idolatrous symbols h
> ang on
> > the
> > > walls of parliament and where Giertych is minister of education.
> >
> > Once again, you clearly did not do your research and paid no attention to
>
> what
> > he said whilst being here. It was adressed to the idiots like Giertych an
> d
> > radio Maryja and to people who like yourself identify the church=radio
> > maryja=giertych.
>
> I don't identify Radio M with the Vatican, and I know that Rydzyk and Romek
> aren't pals any more.


Not in the media they're not.

> But I do find the Polish Church's tolerance and lack of action against these
> people extremely hypocritical.


So do I.

They tolerated Jankowski.

Jankowski was part of Solidarity, Solidarty was a big ovment. It was, a
political decision not to oust him when the trouble began.
The polish electorate is largely made up of old people who have far more
patriotism in thei blood than me or you. Unfortunately, that has been abused by
politicians.

they enjoy the
> attention of the Kaczyńskis.
It's the other way round.

they don't say much about Giertych (although I
> believe they hate him as much as everyone else does)

Like I have said many times, Kaczyńscy have alwyas had a psychology fo DIVIDING
rather than UNITING.

, Radio Maryja still hasn't
>
> been shut down.

It won't be, but that's a matter of politics, not religion.

True. And I think it is scndalous. But I prefer Radio Józef myslef.

> A lot of blind hypocritical pseudo-Catholics support both the Vatican (which
I
> don't like, and have explained why) and these other right-wing mohair-arses
> (whom I also don't like, but for different reasons).

It's their right to do so.

>
> > And this is why RM annoys me, because people like yourself, on the basis
> of
> > what some silly people say there, base their beliefs about the other
> > Poles/catholics on the pathetic theories that RM has.
>
> Radio Maryja may have pathetic theories, but it is hugely successful.
Becaus Tadek is a good business man. And I will say that Rydzyk is successfull
for the same reasons Madonna is. it's called marketing.
But I prefer Madonna any day.

Partly
> because many Poles tolerate the state's patronage of Rydzyk (that "nadawca
> społeczny" bullshit), partly because his populist demagogic shite is
> appreciated by many sad, misguided old folks.

And also, which is even stranger, because he was given a never ending koncesja
whilst the lefites were in power....

> The Catholic Church is also popular, partly because many Poles are afraid not
> to christen their babies (What will the neighbours think?).
It is tradition. I think in this countries many of us, respect what our parents
and grandparents teach us. Which frankly I did not see a lot of in th UK.

, partly because it
> dishes out simplistic slogans like "God has a plan, so you don't need one"

Never has to me.

> or "Worship statues - it's cool",
Never has to me.

but mainly because it is a highly developed
> brain-washin', money-makin', shiny-thing obsessed bureacracy.

Not to me it isn't.

> RM is cynical and fascistic, the KK is cynical and superstitious.
> Or maybe they're both just naive.

I think you are a little too.

[ianek70]

nasza_maggie napisała:


> It is illegal to do that in most places. But that is not as bad as living in
> North Korea for example. In actual fact in this country that 'law' is open to
> interpretation. Like in many others. But the outcome always depends upon who
is
>
> in power. Like in other countries.

True, but do you really expect the interpretation of that law to change in the
next 20 years?

> I have not. But because the church annoys me I pay attention to what the Pope
> says. As far as love goes it isn't for me to decide who others want to love.
if
>
> it is the Pope then fine, I see no harm in that.

Again, that's fine, but here the state and the mainstream media recommend who
people should love, and if someone loves Doda, uses artificial contraception
and believes in horoscopes, but claims to be a Catholic, then until the 4th
Republic is oficially proclaimed I still have the right to laugh at his/her
stupidity and hypocrisy. I'll try to laugh more quickly.
Stupid people can expect respect (because they're stupid) but probably won't
get any. Hypocrites don't even expect respect from other hypocrites. B16 said
you can't pick or choose what to believe, you're for or against.
Not all Poles think like that, but millions do.

> > OK, he doesn't believe in angels, demons or magic paintings, and didn't
> choose
> > a career in the church.
> > So how did he become major ideologue and then leader of an organisation w
> hich
> > teaches the importance of these things?
>
> Like I said that is YOUR interpretation of religion. I don't see the church
as
> teaching me the importance of that. I pay no attention to demons or angels or
> paintings. I pay attention to what is in my head and the decisions I make.

He said you can't just pick and choose. You can't interpret the Bible for
yourself or decide which of Rome's theories to believe. It's all or nothing.
Wojtyła said the same.
If the infallible pope says there are angels, and that certain paintings are
more magical than others, then you can't argue with that, as a Catholic.
But if you don't accept all his weird superstitions, and claim to speak for
yourself and for what is in your head, then that's a different matter.
However, if you're talking from your own point of view and not from the point
of view of dogma and brainwashing, it's even harder to believe that you're
defending the conformism and idolatry of others.

> They tolerated Jankowski.
>
> Jankowski was part of Solidarity, Solidarty was a big ovment. It was, a
> political decision not to oust him when the trouble began.

That was a long time ago.
They also tolerated Świtoń, who began as a trade unionist in the 70s.

> The polish electorate is largely made up of old people who have far more
> patriotism in thei blood than me or you. Unfortunately, that has been abused
by
>
> politicians.

It's brains, not blood, that count.

> they enjoy the
> > attention of the Kaczyńskis.
> It's the other way round.

That's true, too, I suppose, but it does work both ways.

> they don't say much about Giertych (although I
> > believe they hate him as much as everyone else does)
>
> Like I have said many times, Kaczyńscy have alwyas had a psychology fo
DIVIDING
>
> rather than UNITING.

Damn right. At least they're good at something.
Their problem seems to be that they're obsessed with dividing, and can't even
unite their own side.
It's often said that this is a long-term tactic (divide everyone else, but
stick together), but I'm not so sure.

> , Radio Maryja still hasn't
> >
> > been shut down.
>
> It won't be, but that's a matter of politics, not religion.
>
> True. And I think it is scndalous. But I prefer Radio Józef myslef.

I've heard of it, but haven't actually listened. Is it good?

> > A lot of blind hypocritical pseudo-Catholics support both the Vatican (wh
> ich
> I
> > don't like, and have explained why) and these other right-wing mohair-ars
> es
> > (whom I also don't like, but for different reasons).
>
> It's their right to do so.

Yes, it is, but they still smell.

> > > And this is why RM annoys me, because people like yourself, on the
> basis
> > of
> > > what some silly people say there, base their beliefs about the othe
> r
> > > Poles/catholics on the pathetic theories that RM has.
> >
> > Radio Maryja may have pathetic theories, but it is hugely successful.
> Becaus Tadek is a good business man. And I will say that Rydzyk is
successfull
> for the same reasons Madonna is. it's called marketing.
> But I prefer Madonna any day.

Hmmm.
Madonna is all marketing, Tadek is 50% marketing, 50% mad ideology and only 12
% sex appeal.

> Partly
> > because many Poles tolerate the state's patronage of Rydzyk (that "nadawc
> a
> > społeczny" bullshit), partly because his populist demagogic shite is
> > appreciated by many sad, misguided old folks.
>
> And also, which is even stranger, because he was given a never ending
koncesja
> whilst the lefites were in power....

That's democracy.
You tolerate millions of lunatics that you hate, so as not to annoy a few
thousand semi-lunatics that might possibly vote for you.

> It is tradition. I think in this countries many of us, respect what our
parents
>
> and grandparents teach us. Which frankly I did not see a lot of in th UK.

Depends how mad your gran is.

[ianek70]

firemouse napisał:

> Hey, he did. He said that people do not expect priests to be experts in
politic
> s
> or economics

He told people what people expect priests to be? That must have been a big
surprise for people.

[sobieski010]

Actually this pope is not bad.
Only since he is in charge, does the Vatican start to tackle Radio Marija.
The Polish episcopate would never dare to hadle these antisemites themselves.
Their stance in contraceptions is slowly changing.
And I think his visit to Auschwitz was a courageous one.

I am not fond of the Polish chuch, with the likes of Jankowski and Rydzyk (with
an exception for Dziwisz perhaps) but I think they will have to bend.

[sobieski010]

Too bad only that some people here confuse being catholic with being fullblooded
nazi's - and that there other ones who think everything catholic should be
attached at will.
And even worse is that they confuse being a catholic of a moderate Western
European kind with being a communist. Very crass that is.
I do not think one kind of Christianity is better as the one. Personally for me
protestantism is a cold and unforgiving kind of Christianity.
But that's my opinion and I admit I have no theological background to
substantiate that, and religious discussion are not my cup of tea.
I find people who are overtly and too religious somewhat scary. If the concept
of "sins" dominates your life...Very sad that is.
And a last thing. I think that a mix of extreme nationalism and orthodox
religiousness is very dangerous.

[sobieski010]

First sentence should be "Too bad some people here think that only the extreme
conservative right can be good catholics"

[sobieski010]

The pope has gone home, and as expected nr 3 starts. First spy is JP2's
friend... wonder who the next one will be.

Another Possibility to Meet Approaches

[ejmarkow]

ja_karola napisała:

> And finally, did any of you ever actually meet in person? I briefly looked
> over some of the entries dating from a year ago...Have any of you ever
> met face-to-face? And if not, was such a reunion ever suggested, discussed?

Karolina,

Several weeks ago, I provided some information on this forum about a village
festival taking place this Sunday, June 4. My offer couldn't have been more
generous, perhaps one the best yet listed on this forum to date: free room and
board at my house, many interesting activities (festival, camp fires, mountain
biking, sight seeing), and a pleasant break from the big city. There were only
two repsonses that expressed remote possible interest, however, nothing
concrete. It goes to show you just how difficult it really is to organize any
type of reunion. Nevertheless, I'm still an optimist.

Cheers,

Eugene

[usenetposts]

Eugene,

I would like to go, but the issue is that we've got three little kids and while
they like a drive in the country, six hours each way is a bit much for them.

I would come with the wife and one kid, but I'm also far from sure that I can
get adequate babysitting cover for the whole of the period away.

[ja_karola]

Eugene,
I would even bike across Poland if I had to, but as you know, the Atlantic
prevents me and I'm not that good a swimmer
Things are looking up though and I may get closer to Poland this summer. It
looks like I may be moving to Copenhagen...
Keep your fingers crossed!
Karolina

[usenetposts]

I'm going to Copenhagen next week, actually.

It's a pity Michael Hardenfelt hasn't stuck around - I could have done with
buying a refresher lesson in Danish off him!

[ja_karola]

Has he gone back to Denmark? Maybe I could use his services now?
Well, hopefully I'll be settled in by the time you visit next time, if you do.
I've been there twice till now and having walked all over, I know the city
pretty well. Beautiful place! All I need is a bicycle and I'm all set!

[ejmarkow]

Karolina,

If I may ask, what do you plan to do in Denmark? I've to Copenhagen several
years ago and it's a beautiful city. During that time, I took "PolFerries" from
Denmark to Swinoujscie, Poland for a very pleasant 'cruise' including dancing,
casino, and a nice bar with good food.

[usenetposts]

I won't use thje Swinoujscie ferry, I'll drive to Rostock and take the Rostock
one out, and the Rodby one back to Fehmarn. I can drive up a German autobahn a
damn sight quicker than a liner can float up the baltic, believe you me.

[ja_karola]

Why of course you may. I haven't signed the contract yet so I don'T want to
jinx myself. Please check your gazeta mailbox for more info.
If all goes well though, I'll start my dream job in August.
Cheers,
K.