To those foreigners who learn Polish

[gardenersdog]

I would like to ask do U use a particular student book for learning Polish as
foreign language, are U satisfied with it, or maybe it's several different
sources combined together? I'm asking as a person who teach Polish. In my
opinion, it's really difficult to find any decent book. And, I do not now why,
but most of them present some 'artificial', unnatural Polish - either
too...detailed with grammar stuff)or far too polite! No spoken Polish!of
corse by saying 'spoken'I do not mean putting k*** in every phrase...

So please, if U are satisfied with your student's book, write me an
author/title, say briefly why & which level u are & what do you miss in your book
Thanx in advance

[waldek1610]

gardenersdog napisała:

> In my opinion, it's really difficult to find any decent book. And, I do not
> now why, but most of them present some 'artificial', unnatural Polish - either
> too...detailed with grammar stuff)or far too polite! No spoken Polish!

... the very same way your english is...unnatural, artificial.Can we blame you?
Probably not

[gardenersdog]

waldek1610 napisał
>
> ... the very same way your english is...unnatural, artificial.Can we blame you?
>
> Probably not

I must have been using similar student's books that were only translated into
English then...

[waldek1610]

gardenersdog napisała:

> I must have been using similar student's books that were only translated into
> English then...

Don't get me wrong, believe me your english is just fine! Still, you can not
expect to master foreign language relying solely on textbooks, especially if
they where not written by native english speaker. Practice, and old fashion
mingling (interactioin) with native speakers is what it takes

[gardenersdog]

Ok, but those books I'd like to discuss about were written by POLISH NATIVE
SPEAKERS! So why are they so...clumsy? And please, if I wanted people to judge
my English, I'd be pert enough to write a separate post

- Chciałbym Cię pokochać taką, jaka jesteś. Jaka jesteś?
- Nie wiem.
- Nie utrudniaj...

[gardenersdog]

I wanted to gather some positive opinions; 'let's blame student's books for all
our failures' - that wasn't my intention.

[gardenersdog]

But why do U comment? According to Gazeta's Forum, you are an eager, active and
highly fluent user of Polish ... Any opinion on "Dzień Dobry"?

[marcus_anglikiem]

I would recommend
'Basic Polish: A Grammar and Workbook' by Dana Bielec Publ.: Routledge
'Colloquial Polish' by Bolesław W. Mazur Publ.: Routledge
'Cześć, Jak się Masz?' by Władysław Miodunka Publ.: Universitas

[gardenersdog]

Are the first 2 books on your list available in Poland? I didn't know that
publishing...

[marcus_anglikiem]

I just looked on merlin.pl and those two titles are not there though they do
have 269 items published by Routledge.
I also found this one: a PL copy of which I picked up last time I was in Wa-wa.
"We learn polish - tom 1 i 2"
Józefa Bartnicka, Barbara Bartnicka, Wojciech Jekiel
Wiedza Powszechna
cena: 44 zł
I found too ( the latest edition of which comes with a CD )
"Cześć, jak się masz? cz. 1. A Polish Language Textbook for Beginners"
UNIVERSITAS
cena: 52 zł

[gardenersdog]

Thanx a lot. Routledge publishing seems to be quite rare; though they've got
Polish sites & even a catalogue!

[mafketis]

Several points to remember:

_All_ language textbooks (for every language) use unnatural language. The
difference isn't natural vs artificial but degree of artificiality.

For the most part the teaching of Polish as a foreign language is not as
developed as it could be (except the schools in places like lodz where foreign
students are brought before they start class alongside Polish students). But
students there are expected to devote their full time to learning the language,
a luxury most foreigners don't have.

Different learners learn in different ways. I like grammar, grammar and grammar
the more explicit the better. Not everybody likes this approach for obvious reasons.

Keeping those points in mind, my three favorite Polish textbooks (of the dozen
or so I've used) are as follows. They aren't perfect (or very close) but were
the ones I found most useful for different things.

Teach Yourself Polish (the old edition with lots of grammar explanations, not
the newer conversation-based abomination). It especially does a good job of
explaining the extensive morphophonemic changes in Polish (why you say 'świat'
but 'na świecie' for example and why the genitive plural of okno is okien and
not okn or oken).

Już mówię po polsku - a series (I think that's the title I especially like the
pie charts that help you associate endings with each other)

Among Poles (the old books from the catholic university in Lublin). It was dated
when I used it but very good exercises.

[ianek70]

There was a thread about this before (but it was a long time ago).
There's a series of books for foreigners learning Polish, I can't remember the
publishers, but they look quite professional (shiny red covers, empik sells
them, they cost a fortune) and are divided according to level.
I bought one of the 'advanced' ones ('Co z czym?' it was called, or something)
and it was just crap.
I thought an 'advanced' book would explain stuff like 'poczekać czy zaczekać?',
or more importantly 'nalać vs polać' but it was just the same elementary
bollocks as in the beginners' books. 'Na stół czy na stole?' 'Mam swój klucz
czy mam jego klucz?' Utter shite.

[gardenersdog]

The book U mentioned must have been published by Universitas; some books from
that serie are more reasonable luckily; but I agree - most grammar excercises
is completly against the 'lively' usage

Is poczekać versus zaczekać a kind of urban legend? I know that there was 'a
heated debate') on this issue; there is really no difference in meaning, don't
bother.
Pozdrawiam.

Nalać vs polać

[gardenersdog]

On the spot I think they're the same in meaning when comes to an alcohol -
czy możesz mi nalać?/polać? Polej!!!)and so on..
When u do some damage like spilling some juice on the carpet or pissing in the
lift u better use 'nalać':
Nalała soku na dywan.
Ktoś nalał w windzie. (both examples come from PWN/Oxford Dictionary)
U use 'nalać'mostly when u pour liquid to some container (a glass, a bowl, a
plate) and 'polać' in meaning like ' to pour a souce over pasta', when u want to
cover some 'irregular')surface, esp. organic and digestive)
Polać appears to me as more intentional action whereas nalać can be accidental.
Compare:
Polał dywan benzyną ( in order to burnt it)
Nalał benzyny na dywan (he made a stain)
But with lack of context they may mean the same hereThat's why Polish is
beautiful)

[raggety]

Forget the shiny expensive text books - go for Wśród Polaków - Polish for
foreign students by Brygida Rudzka Parts I and II, published by Katolicki
Uniwersytet Lubelski (also the best place to learn Polish). Plenty of grammar,
exercises, conversation texts, and Part II has original texts from Polish
literature. They're the only two text books I used and my Polish (written and
spoken) is amost-native-speaker level, so I can definitely recommend them.

[usenetposts]

raggety napisała:

> Forget the shiny expensive text books - go for Wśród Polaków - Polish for
> foreign students by Brygida Rudzka Parts I and II, published by Katolicki
> Uniwersytet Lubelski (also the best place to learn Polish). Plenty of
grammar,
> exercises, conversation texts, and Part II has original texts from Polish
> literature. They're the only two text books I used and my Polish (written and
> spoken) is amost-native-speaker level, so I can definitely recommend them.

Sounds like a good recommendation.

[gardenersdog]

This book rarely appears on Allegro; a cover seemed a bit 'oldschool'to me)
but I hope to grab ? it soon. Thanx.
In my opinion, the best grammar explanations so far are in W. Miodunka's book,
Czesc! Jak się masz?

[raggety]

Surely you don't judge the merits of a text book by its cover! Wśród Polaków
can be found here: www.wydawnictwokul.lublin.pl/sklep/product_info.php?
products_id=421 and here:
www.wydawnictwokul.lublin.pl/sklep/product_info.php?
cPath=37&products_id=422. Moje wydanie części I ma niekiczowatą okładkę bo jest
z 1988r. Rozpoczęliśmy część II po 4 miesiącach nauki z częścią I. Jak
zobaczysz cześć II, zrozumiesz, jaka solidna ta nauka musiała być z cześcią I
bo wszyscy w naszej grupie świetnie sobie radzili z częścią II. Przechwalić
lektorów i kurs na KULu nie sposób.

[gardenersdog]

To mafketis and raggety: Thank U for recommending 'Among Poles' by Rudzka &
Goczołowa. I bought it today (via Allegro - it's really rare) and I must say
it's really amazing!!! Wciąż jestem pod wrażeniem - świetny język, objaśnienia
gramatyczne i ćwiczenia - super!!! Jeszcze raz dziękuję )